Guild Wars 2

The price of unidentified dyes has been rising at an astronomical rate over the past week. Very recently, it has risen upwards of 60-70% above the price. Although this can be partly attributed by a rise in expendable player income as more players turn toward cosmetic items, the price inflation is being even further accelerated by speculators who have noticed (pretty impossible to not notice) this upward trend.

It is pretty safe to say that there is a rather substantial supply of uncirculated, unused U. dyes sitting in banks and inventories for speculative purposes. This is a perfect recipe for a market crash especially if a couple big investors decide to dump their supply at some point.

Then again, maybe U. dyes really ARE just that popular and demand will eat up any built up supply. Maybe the market will just stabilize.

What are your thoughts on U. dyes? Speculation/fad bubble waiting to crash or a real trend of increasing demand? Are they worth it as a long term investment?

I personally am making a profit off of riding short-term price fluxuations because the item moves so insanely fast. I am not/would not make any sort of long term investment. Any supply I buy is flipped within a couple days.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the price crashes soon, but that depends on whether they are available for laurels on the 28th, and at what cost relative to other items that can also be purchased with laurels.

Well, I can’t speak for others of course but for me the supply of dyes has plummeted again. I’ve found precisely three in the last week or so. If others have perceived a drop in supply that would help explain a rising price.

This one is a bit puzzling. I can’t imagine that manipulators would try this so close to the update.

Gift of color. That is all.

People are speculating that legendary dyes will come out.

Vol.5241:

People are speculating that legendary dyes will come out.

This sounds unlikely. Even if it were reasonable to speculate on legendary dyes, hoarding up U. dyes aren’t the way to go about capitalizing on it.

It’s another result of the bot bans. Look back through the history on spidy, they spiked like this back in November after the last bot ban. Since we have fewer characters mindlessly zerging mobs as fast as they can spawn, there’s a fewer number of dyes. Supply started tanking on the 14th after the bans and price has continued to go up since then.

demonwing.5843:

Vol.5241:

People are speculating that legendary dyes will come out.

This sounds unlikely. Even if it were reasonable to speculate on legendary dyes, hoarding up U. dyes aren’t the way to go about capitalizing on it.

kind of like hoarding t6 mats for both a bot ban, and an eventual increase in price when precursor prices fall?

Vol.5241:

demonwing.5843:

Vol.5241:

People are speculating that legendary dyes will come out.

This sounds unlikely. Even if it were reasonable to speculate on legendary dyes, hoarding up U. dyes aren’t the way to go about capitalizing on it.

kind of like hoarding t6 mats for both a bot ban, and an eventual increase in price when precursor prices fall?

Looks like that is spreading to the t5 mats as well.

Gift of Color requires 250 unid Dye and at 14s a piece this is one of the cheaper legendary gifts to make. People who don’t want to make twilight turn to cheaper alternatives and Gift of Color is exactly that. It is perfectly logical for unid dye to end up at ~50s, just like lodestones and other important crafting materials.

Secondly, cosmetics are just that … cosmetics. An average woman has around 1000€ of cosmetics on her body. High profile brands such as Marlies Deckers cost over 200€ for a cosmetic item only seen by 1 or 2 people. The highest premiums are paid for stuff that’s inherently useless. Unidentified Dye falls in this category. In the real world, gold bars have the same problem.

I think they were always intended to be expensive it just took awhile for them to get there. That would explain why the dye pack is loaded with common dyes and then 1 master or rare.

jazzllanna.1278:

I think they were always intended to be expensive it just took awhile for them to get there. That would explain why the dye pack is loaded with common dyes and then 1 master or rare.

If that’s the case then they need to go back to their original plan of making dyes account bound. The prices are just getting to be too ridiculous to spend on multiple characters. I still don’t even have Abyss on anyone because I simply can’t afford 20g for one dye for one character and I don’t play the RNG game, I always lose. :P

I’m proud to say that instead of buying Exotic gear, I spent ~35g on Abyss, Black, Iron and Midnight Fire to get the exact right mix of blacks on my Rare gear. Also puts me in the curious situation of having the dye worth 10-20 times the cost of the gear it’s put on…

marnick.4305:

An average woman has around 1000€ of cosmetics on her body.

No. No she doesn’t. That’s absurd.

Let’s just admit that the prices are this high because people are anticipating a price crash after laurels are implemented.

It is probably available, but u would have to earn those Lauriels.
But so are ascended amulets so I really doubt ppl that want better gear would spend their Lauriels on dyes.

whipplerama.3692:

marnick.4305:

An average woman has around 1000€ of cosmetics on her body.

No. No she doesn’t. That’s absurd.

It really is an…interesting average oO What’s your timeframe for that, do you count whole ‘packages’ or just the amount applied over a day?
Because I’m pretty sure I don’t have more than 5€ of cosmetics on my on any given take, taking into account everything I use over the day. Nah, make that 1€, considering how long those ’packages last.

I’d also vote for speculation on those laurels.

whipplerama.3692:

marnick.4305:

An average woman has around 1000€ of cosmetics on her body.

No. No she doesn’t. That’s absurd.

On a medium profile evening… Lowballing all prices of course

Expensive dress: ~600
Shoes: ~150
Lingerie: ~150
Haircut and dye job: ~50
2 Rings: ~130 each
Necklace: ~100

I leave it up to you to add the prices together. Only the dress is up for debate in this list, that could go anywhere from 20€ to 2000€ depending on how lucky she is in finding something that fits her.

With cosmetics I meant everything that artificially improves her look.
As for a man… a car and iPad serves the same functionality. I drive a Seat and have a Nokia 3310, yet some people drive a Ferrari and use an iPad even though my Seat is just as good as a Ferrari at max speed, and an iPad has no added value over any regular smartphone.

My point stands. The highest premiums are paid for cosmetic items without inherent added value. As such, I believe precursors and abyss dye are at a more or less correct price point.

marnick.4305:

On a medium profile evening… Lowballing all prices of course

Expensive dress: ~600
Shoes: ~150
Lingerie: ~150
Haircut and dye job: ~50
2 Rings: ~130 each
Necklace: ~100

I leave it up to you to add the prices together. Only the dress is up for debate in this list, that could go anywhere from 20€ to 2000€ depending on how lucky she is in finding something that fits her.

With cosmetics I meant everything that artificially improves her look.

Ah, so now it’s the “average” (you stated the average woman in your op) woman on a medium profile evening. Speaking as your average woman, the above list is still absurd. Assuming average = middle class. If you’re speaking of another class, then we aren’t speaking of your “average” woman. Although in recent years, average is sliding into blue collar or lower. These days, women are trying to feed their families, not spending 150 bucks on underwear. Also, not every woman dyes their hair.

marnick.4305:

As for a man… a car and iPad serves the same functionality.

The average man doesn’t wear clothes? Where do you live?

marnick.4305:

My point stands. The highest premiums are paid for cosmetic items without inherent added value. As such, I believe precursors and abyss dye are at a more or less correct price point.

Maybe so. However, not everyone is willing to pay the highest premiums for cosmetic items. Personally, I think it’s stupid, but that’s just me. The last dye I purchased was for 7 copper.
Anywho, my point stands as well. The recent dramatic price increase for dyes is unlikely a natural progression, and more likely speculation. Whether or not they are at the correct price point is an individual decision. And my decision is hell no.

whipplerama.3692:

Ah, so now it’s the “average” (you stated the average woman in your op) woman on a medium profile evening. Speaking as your average woman, the above list is still absurd. Assuming average = middle class. If you’re speaking of another class, then we aren’t speaking of your “average” woman. Although in recent years, average is sliding into blue collar or lower. These days, women are trying to feed their families, not spending 150 bucks on underwear. Also, not every woman dyes their hair.

I do not know why you have something against blue collar work, but these get paid pretty well in Belgium and Germany.

The average man doesn’t wear clothes? Where do you live?

You really want to make a case in point here? I’ll indulge you. On the same evening, a man wears a custom tailored suit that costs around 500€ at the bare minimum. Nothing wrong with that. Any blue collar worker can pay that. It’s not much.

Maybe so. However, not everyone is willing to pay the highest premiums for cosmetic items. Personally, I think it’s stupid, but that’s just me. The last dye I purchased was for 7 copper.
Anywho, my point stands as well. The recent dramatic price increase for dyes is unlikely a natural progression, and more likely speculation. Whether or not they are at the correct price point is an individual decision. And my decision is hell no.

We are in the same boat. I do not pay for premium items when equal quality/functionality items are far cheaper. I only have an iPhone because I got one for free. My girlfriend wears mostly second hand clothing. When I spend a premium IRL, I actually want premium functionality. I consider my lifestyle far more healthy than people who always want the latest fad, but I do recognize the prevalent attitude that pointless items tend to be the most expensive.
Instead of a love letter, I once sent a Telegram. That cost me 30€ instead of 1€. Sometimes, it makes me happy to spend money on stupid stuff, but I don’t make it a habit.

That being said, the correct price point is not an individual decision but rather the sum of all individual decisions that make for the market price. You may disagree with the market, and that does in fact influence the market price, but on the other hand, many people apparently agree with the current market prices. As an individual, you should recognize that, even if you don’t agree.

Yes … my most expensive dye cost a few silver. I advocate modesty. It does not mean I want a free Ferrari instead of my beautiful Seat which makes me equally happy.

marnick.4305:

My point stands. The highest premiums are paid for cosmetic items without inherent added value.

Yet more than half of all dyes are posted for less than 10s. The highest premiums are paid for rare items that people want, following the law of supply and demand. That’s it. Anet has designed the game in such a way that functionally optimal items are relatively common, so by selective bias most of the expensive items will be related to cosmetic features. But if precursors were functionally better, they’d be more expensive, not cheaper than they are now. Hopefully you see the obviousness of that.

Also, while “cosmetic” items don’t affect gameplay, which is what we use the word to mean, that’s different from saying cosmetic items have no inherent value or function at all. They make characters more aesthetically appealing to their owners, and beauty is something that humans value intrinsically. That’s why the majority of Tyria seems to consist of pretty half-naked women (or maybe I just don’t notice the rest). Likewise, you may think your car to be the equal of a Ferrari based on performance, but the guy in the Ferrari gets more kitten than you do, and he knew that when he bought it.

Leablo.2651:

marnick.4305:

My point stands. The highest premiums are paid for cosmetic items without inherent added value.

Yet more than half of all dyes are posted for less than 10s. The highest premiums are paid for rare items that people want, following the law of supply and demand. That’s it. Anet has designed the game in such a way that functionally optimal items are relatively common, so by selective bias most of the expensive items will be related to cosmetic features. But if precursors were functionally better, they’d be more expensive, not cheaper than they are now. Hopefully you see the obviousness of that.

I do see how it is totally irrelevant. As of yet, precursors are not functionally better and only serve as a component for a cosmetic item. Cosmetic items are by default expensive and therefor supply must be limited to keep them so. Ferrari only makes 107 cars per model, or some other arbitrary number. It is not feasible to make a premium item that’s available to all.

Also, while “cosmetic” items don’t affect gameplay, which is what we use the word to mean, that’s different from saying cosmetic items have no inherent value or function at all. They make characters more aesthetically appealing to their owners, and beauty is something that humans value intrinsically. That’s why the majority of Tyria seems to consist of pretty half-naked women (or maybe I just don’t notice the rest). Likewise, you may think your car to be the equal of a Ferrari based on performance, but the guy in the Ferrari gets more kitten than you do, and he knew that when he bought it.

I agree with this part on the notion that an uninteresting guy with a Ferrari gets less puppy than me with my Seat. Matter of fact, I get a lot of compliments on it. Cosmetics only improve a person, they can’t fix a flawed personality.
Having Eternity will never cover for lack of skill. A skilled person with a starter weapon is respected more than a noob with Eternity. That being said, a skilled person with Eternity is boss.

marnick.4305:

I do not know why you have something against blue collar work, but these get paid pretty well in Belgium and Germany.

I have absolutely nothing against blue collar work, as they are the ones who do kitten near everything. But in the US, the salary is … average, and sometimes not even that. I have lived in coal mining areas, and their pay, considering the dangerous nature of the job, is less than impressive. In fact, most coal mining towns are very economically depressed areas.

You really want to make a case in point here? I’ll indulge you. On the same evening, a man wears a custom tailored suit that costs around 500€ at the bare minimum. Nothing wrong with that. Any blue collar worker can pay that. It’s not much.

Again, in the US, $500 can be quite the significant expense for your average family.

We are in the same boat. I do not pay for premium items when equal quality/functionality items are far cheaper. I only have an iPhone because I got one for free. My girlfriend wears mostly second hand clothing. When I spend a premium IRL, I actually want premium functionality. I consider my lifestyle far more healthy than people who always want the latest fad, but I do recognize the prevalent attitude that pointless items tend to be the most expensive.
Instead of a love letter, I once sent a Telegram. That cost me 30€ instead of 1€. Sometimes, it makes me happy to spend money on stupid stuff, but I don’t make it a habit.

Indeed, we are in the same boat. I am frugal by nature, although generous with loved ones. The current real world economy encourages me to be even more frugal, and it seems to have followed me into the game.

That being said, the correct price point is not an individual decision but rather the sum of all individual decisions that make for the market price. You may disagree with the market, and that does in fact influence the market price, but on the other hand, many people apparently agree with the current market prices. As an individual, you should recognize that, even if you don’t agree.

Yes … my most expensive dye cost a few silver. I advocate modesty. It does not mean I want a free Ferrari instead of my beautiful Seat which makes me equally happy.

Well, I don’t know how many people are caving to current market prices, but I of course realize people will, whether or not I feel it’s an intelligent decision. If I was willing to part with the rare dyes I’ve collected, I’m sure I’d make quite the killing. As it is, I barely get any drops, so they stay with me. No, I don’t want anything for free, like you I make do with what I have, and it’s good enough.

whipplerama.3692:

marnick.4305:

I do not know why you have something against blue collar work, but these get paid pretty well in Belgium and Germany.

I have absolutely nothing against blue collar work, as they are the ones who do kitten near everything. But in the US, the salary is … average, and sometimes not even that. I have lived in coal mining areas, and their pay, considering the dangerous nature of the job, is less than impressive. In fact, most coal mining towns are very economically depressed areas.

Define “less than impressive”. If you earn 1500 each month after taxes, that’s a good salary. It’s enough to support a family, buy a house and live a good life in general. You shouldn’t keep up with the Jonesses but rather look at what you want to get out of life. In Belgium 1200 is a pretty normal salary for blue collar work but the truth is … it’s not bad.

You really want to make a case in point here? I’ll indulge you. On the same evening, a man wears a custom tailored suit that costs around 500€ at the bare minimum. Nothing wrong with that. Any blue collar worker can pay that. It’s not much.

Again, in the US, $500 can be quite the significant expense for your average family.

This all depends on what’s a normal wage level and what you expect to get out of life. 500€ is quite a bit of money but by playing my cards well, I can afford it every single month if necessary. At times we go on city trips around the world every single weekend without dipping into my savings. But I don’t have a car on credit, I don’t have a washing machine on credit. I actually don’t have any monthly costs apart for rent and food. We cook ourselves, I go to work with a bike and have a moderate apartment. That allows us to have a good life on my income alone.

Indeed, we are in the same boat. I am frugal by nature, although generous with loved ones. The current real world economy encourages me to be even more frugal, and it seems to have followed me into the game.

Which is why I hate socialism. By stealing half my money in taxes, I can be less generous for people I actually care about. I currently support my girlfriend with much love. If a friend needed a place to stay for a month I would gladly invite him but oh kitten government stole half my money, … I’m sorry.
It follows me in this game because I can’t stand entitled post by self proclaimed “poor” players who want money from the more rich players redistributed. Just save up your gold and buy what you want. A.net can’t fix the failures of poor players.

Well, I don’t know how many people are caving to current market prices, but I of course realize people will, whether or not I feel it’s an intelligent decision. If I was willing to part with the rare dyes I’ve collected, I’m sure I’d make quite the killing. As it is, I barely get any drops, so they stay with me. No, I don’t want anything for free, like you I make do with what I have, and it’s good enough.

Same. I’m pretty sure the TP will correct itself in time … I would suggest reading into control theory, specifically the chapter about positive feedback loops and how they are inherently unstable. The TP is a positive feedback loop, just like holding a microphone in front of a speaker. That annoying high pitch sound you hear …. that’s the TP prices crashing by 50% in 1 day

marnick.4305:

On a medium profile evening… Lowballing all prices of course

Expensive dress: ~600
Shoes: ~150
Lingerie: ~150
Haircut and dye job: ~50
2 Rings: ~130 each
Necklace: ~100

I leave it up to you to add the prices together. Only the dress is up for debate in this list, that could go anywhere from 20€ to 2000€ depending on how lucky she is in finding something that fits her.

I can honestly say I’ve never spent over $200 (if that) on a dress. I’ve never spent over $50 on a single pair of shoes, I’ve never spent over $50 on a set of lingerie and that’s the nice stuff not the everyday stuff, I don’t dye my hair and a haircut costs me about $25 every 6 months. I can’t comment on the jewelry since I can’t afford to buy any.

marnick.4305:

Define “less than impressive”. If you earn 1500 each month after taxes, that’s a good salary. It’s enough to support a family, buy a house and live a good life in general. You shouldn’t keep up with the Jonesses but rather look at what you want to get out of life. In Belgium 1200 is a pretty normal salary for blue collar work but the truth is … it’s not bad.

Yeah, that doesn’t cut it here in the US. Average cost of rent is around $800/mo. before utilities. Utilities are about $300/mo. Groceries are about $300/mo. Gas is about $100/mo. There, you already have your $1500 and nothing non-essential has been purchased.

It’s barely enough to support two people (I learned that the hard way when I was laid off) and it’s definitely not enough to support a family. Even that’s provided you have no financial emergencies and you sacrifice quite a bit to make it work.

…How did this go from the price of u. dyes to how much women spend on ‘cosmetics’ and how much you have to make a year to support a family?

This has turned into a pretty hilarious thread. marnick is in the running for January’s troll of the month club.

SmirkDog.3160:

…How did this go from the price of u. dyes to how much women spend on ‘cosmetics’ and how much you have to make a year to support a family?

This is what Guild wars 2 has become, a market game about who can get the fanciest clothes and income for their legendary savings, instead of the adventure game it was meant to be.

The Blue Ace.2850:

This is what Guild wars 2 has become, a market game about who can get the fanciest clothes and income for their legendary savings, instead of the adventure game it was meant to be.

Well, I think they are on the right track though.
Actually I think dyes are working the best in regards to cosmetics (for me anyways). They drop (again) quite regularly and having 8 characters I can still use them all so far.
Sure, I’m willing to compromise in that regard by not wanting a specific colour right away – but at least there is some sense of progress in terms of “completing” the set itself.