Guild Wars 2

Why do people undercut by 4 gold on an item worth 30 gold on the TP? <— Example.

I have seen this loads of times now and I fail to see the logic behind selling an item for way less than what you can actually get for it.

Stupidity doesnt follow any logic.

Quick sale, I sometimes undercut by a goodly amount because I know that it will be snapped up quickly instead of languishing on the TP. But I still make more than I would if I sold to folks trying to low-ball buy it.

People are going to buy it no matter if you undercut or not. The only thing you really do is lowering the price of whatever item you are undercutting for everyone.

Murdyr.9204:

People are going to buy it no matter if you undercut or not. The only thing you really do is lowering the price of whatever item you are undercutting for everyone.

This some people want quick gold so they sell very low.

Murdyr.9204:

Why do people undercut by 4 gold on an item worth 30 gold on the TP? <— Example.

I have seen this loads of times now and I fail to see the logic behind selling an item for way less than what you can actually get for it.

I do that sometimes. Three main reasonable reasons why you undercut by a ton:

1.) You are desperate for gold and willing to trade profit for liquidity
2.) 30G for that item is probably massively inflated or not worth it. I remember seeing a rare lvl 80 berserker greatsword selling for 60s when other similar rare greatswords were at 20s. I undercut all the way to 30s because 60s is unsustainable and I would waste my fee)
3.) Some non-liquid items (such as exotic weapons) do not sell or get listed quickly (hence non-liquid). Therefore you want to price it so that it encourages buyers to buy at a much lower price, as well as prevent other sellers from quickly undercutting.

Murdyr.9204:

People are going to buy it no matter if you undercut or not. The only thing you really do is lowering the price of whatever item you are undercutting for everyone.

Honestly I do not have time to monitor the TP a play the 1c undercut game. If there is a large spread between buy and sell price it indicates a market inefficiency which I can take advantage of for a swift sale. I know this screws over the folks playing the TP game, but I’m not playing that game so /shrug.

All you end up doing is making one person happy or creating a new wall at a much lower price and still not getting yours sold that fast. If you want a fast sale then just sell to the buy order or undercut by a small amount and leave it for a day… There is no reason to undercut by so much because most people dont check and will undercut you buy small amounts each time regardless of price.

26 gold in hand is worth 30 gold in the bush.

spoj.9672:

All you end up doing is making one person happy or creating a new wall at a much lower price and still not getting yours sold that fast. If you want a fast sale then just sell to the buy order or undercut by a small amount and leave it for a day… There is no reason to undercut by so much because most people dont check and will undercut you buy small amounts each time regardless of price.

You dont create a new wall if you undercut a lowest listing of 30G by 4G.

At that price range, people dont blindly put stuff on the TP.
If I want to sell my item for 30 gold and someone puts a listing on for 26G, i wait and see if it gets sold fast for 26G and then list it for 29,9999G.

Wanze.8410:

spoj.9672:

All you end up doing is making one person happy or creating a new wall at a much lower price and still not getting yours sold that fast. If you want a fast sale then just sell to the buy order or undercut by a small amount and leave it for a day… There is no reason to undercut by so much because most people dont check and will undercut you buy small amounts each time regardless of price.

You dont create a new wall if you undercut a lowest listing of 30G by 4G.

At that price range, people dont blindly put stuff on the TP.
If I want to sell my item for 30 gold and someone puts a listing on for 26G, i wait and see if it gets sold fast for 26G and then list it for 29,9999G.

Problem is that people don’t check the other listings, they just list their item at the same price (or below) the lowest current listing, which screws the value of the item over completely.

Murdyr.9204:

Wanze.8410:

spoj.9672:

All you end up doing is making one person happy or creating a new wall at a much lower price and still not getting yours sold that fast. If you want a fast sale then just sell to the buy order or undercut by a small amount and leave it for a day… There is no reason to undercut by so much because most people dont check and will undercut you buy small amounts each time regardless of price.

You dont create a new wall if you undercut a lowest listing of 30G by 4G.

At that price range, people dont blindly put stuff on the TP.
If I want to sell my item for 30 gold and someone puts a listing on for 26G, i wait and see if it gets sold fast for 26G and then list it for 29,9999G.

Problem is that people don’t check the other listings, they just list their item at the same price (or below) the lowest current listing, which screws the value of the item over completely.

Wrong. If I want to sell something worth 30G, first i click: Buy more on Trading Post, to check how buy and sell listings look like. Then i decide, if i want to sell my item now, or wait.

spoj.9672:

All you end up doing is making one person happy or creating a new wall at a much lower price and still not getting yours sold that fast. If you want a fast sale then just sell to the buy order or undercut by a small amount and leave it for a day… There is no reason to undercut by so much because most people dont check and will undercut you buy small amounts each time regardless of price.

Why is it my job in a competitive game (which the TP definitely is, an intellectual form of PvP) to make you happy? Maybe you should look at it as a buying opportunity. If the actual value is 30g, simply purchase the item and re-list it for guaranteed profit. If the actual value is not 30g, well then, it’s not my job to ensure you make profits off an inflated market.

Vol.5241:

I remember seeing a rare lvl 80 berserker greatsword selling for 60s when other similar rare greatswords were at 20s. I undercut all the way to 30s because 60s is unsustainable and I would waste my fee)

I beg to differ.

1) Not knowing if the current low sale price is a price players will buy at they choose to price their’s closer to the high bid.

2) Impatient. They want the coin ASAP and 26g minus fees within an hour is better than 30g minus fees in a day or two if ever.

3) They may be pricing an item at an historic average or trading range, knowing it will attract buyers. It even could be the price they last sold one at.

4) They want to make sure that anyone who thinks about undercutting them to think twice. Let them have this one sale quickly and they’ll be out of everyone else’s hair.

Behellagh.1468:

4) They want to make sure that anyone who thinks about undercutting them to think twice. Let them have this one sale quickly and they’ll be out of everyone else’s hair.

If I were going to sell an expensive item and saw a large gap between the two lowest listings, I would not undercut the lowest but rather set a price somewhere in the gap between them. The lowest item is going to sell fast, I may have to wait a little longer but pricing 50s below #2 will still sell relatively quickly and without sacrificing 3.5 gold to do it.

True, I do that myself but if their isn’t a large gap already, if you are the person to establish that gap, that’s a reason to do it.

I’ve undercut by well over 50g on precursors when there is a 100G gap. My general rule is to undercut by half of the difference between the highest buy and lowest sell.

In one instance, I sold relatively fast and the price went back to the lowest seller and stayed there for a bit.

In another instance, despite undercutting by 50g, I got undercut by a further 30g and no buyer was willing to pay my price for a week.

it aggravates me to no end when someone lists 1 item at buy order price + 1c. to me, they effectively hide the actual selling price, so I have to search for the item on the TP, see that the next-lowest price is 60s above that, then go list mine at that price instead. people wanting to manipulate the market… (their goal is that someone like me won’t take the time to notice they drastically decreased the sell price, hoping that I’ll sell 250 at that price, then they’ll buy all 250, remove their listing, relist at actual price. it’s like buy orders but requires more work and makes people who know to look for it annoyed.
if that sell listing gives anything close to a profit if I bought and sold at actual price, I buy it and laugh at their misfortune.

Mystic.5934:

it aggravates me to no end when someone lists 1 item at buy order price + 1c. to me, they effectively hide the actual selling price, so I have to search for the item on the TP, see that the next-lowest price is 60s above that, then go list mine at that price instead. people wanting to manipulate the market… (their goal is that someone like me won’t take the time to notice they drastically decreased the sell price, hoping that I’ll sell 250 at that price, then they’ll buy all 250, remove their listing, relist at actual price. it’s like buy orders but requires more work and makes people who know to look for it annoyed.
if that sell listing gives anything close to a profit if I bought and sold at actual price, I buy it and laugh at their misfortune.

I think, if items are listed 1c over highest bidder its most of the time a miss click by the seller.
For example you want to get rid of a stack (250) of ore and want to sell to the highest bidder. But the highest bidder only listed a buy order for 200 ore. If you mark the option to sell to the highest bidder and click sell maximum, you will sell 200 ore to him directly and the tp will list the remaining 50 ore at that price.

Wanze.8410:

Murdyr.9204:

Problem is that people don’t check the other listings, they just list their item at the same price (or below) the lowest current listing, which screws the value of the item over completely.

Wrong. If I want to sell something worth 30G, first i click: Buy more on Trading Post, to check how buy and sell listings look like. Then i decide, if i want to sell my item now, or wait.

Thats not wrong. Just because you check doesnt meant most people do. People create walls all the time because of pointless undercutting. Usually only happens on cheaper items but it still happens and its very irritating. So many mats arent worth selling on the tp thanks to excessive undercutting.

spoj.9672:

Wanze.8410:

Murdyr.9204:

Problem is that people don’t check the other listings, they just list their item at the same price (or below) the lowest current listing, which screws the value of the item over completely.

Wrong. If I want to sell something worth 30G, first i click: Buy more on Trading Post, to check how buy and sell listings look like. Then i decide, if i want to sell my item now, or wait.

Thats not wrong. Just because you check doesnt meant most people do. People create walls all the time because of pointless undercutting. Usually only happens on cheaper items but it still happens and its very irritating. So many mats arent worth selling on the tp thanks to excessive undercutting.

So what is it then? Do people create walls ALL THE TIME? or Does it ONLY happen on cheaper items?

spoj.9672:

Wanze.8410:

Murdyr.9204:

Problem is that people don’t check the other listings, they just list their item at the same price (or below) the lowest current listing, which screws the value of the item over completely.

Wrong. If I want to sell something worth 30G, first i click: Buy more on Trading Post, to check how buy and sell listings look like. Then i decide, if i want to sell my item now, or wait.

Thats not wrong. Just because you check doesnt meant most people do. People create walls all the time because of pointless undercutting. Usually only happens on cheaper items but it still happens and its very irritating. So many mats arent worth selling on the tp thanks to excessive undercutting.

Mats are a perfect example of why undercutting doesn’t matter in the long run. Once people undercut to the point where they aren’t worth selling, people will stop collecting them to sell. Eventually, the supply with dry up and the price will increase. People will then farm more mats to sell and the price will drop again. Also, if the demand drops, the price will drop as well.

Just look at ancient wood over the past two weeks. Crafting of ascended items added a huge new demand and the price skyrocketed. It then quickly stabilized between 8-9 silver no matter how many undercutters there were. It didn’t start to drop until the demand no longer could keep up with the supply. Undercutting had no effect other than to help move the market to an equilibrium.

Too many players view selling on the TP as the price they want to sell for rather than the price others will pay. They then come and whinge on the forums about undercutting, when it is their own kitten fault.

There’s also a short-term trick involving pretty precise timing.

Assume you have a metric kitten ton of Supply Bags

If you can pick a time when a lot are about to be dumped onto the market (right after the Modnir event, for example), you can drop the price about 4 cp, and many of those that follow you will sell for a cp or two lower just because they want to get rid of those “free” drops from playing the event chain.

If you can get into that stream and do it a handful or so at a time at varying points, the players will help you drop it down a hefty percentage.

You can set a really low buy price in there, pick up some el cheapos along the way.

If you stack ENOUGH sells in there (say upwards of 1000 in most cases except cloth), you can set a false “ceiling”, and the players themselves will keep lowering the price because they know getting through 1000+ sells “takes too long”.

Takes a significant amount of sell resources and timing, but a busy weekend will allow that to happen. It’s also risky as hell.

If you see a false ceiling in place, wait till Sunday night, they will USUALLY clear out as the architects take them back down for crafting or whatever reason they’re doing it.

EDIT: additionally, since a good majority of those will clear out Sunday night, you can look at the sell list, identify a ceiling or two, and post your sell order higher than those.

No idea if what I just typed makes sense to anyone else but me.

Wanze.8410:

So what is it then? Do people create walls ALL THE TIME? or Does it ONLY happen on cheaper items?

Sorry Mr. Pedantic. If you didnt understand what I meant then its not worth explaining to you.

spoj.9672:

Wanze.8410:

So what is it then? Do people create walls ALL THE TIME? or Does it ONLY happen on cheaper items?

Sorry Mr. Pedantic. If you didnt understand what I meant then its not worth explaining to you.

I just dont understand why you have to exaggerate to prove your point. And i dont need explaining on how this economy works because i generate enough gold in it for myself to not go to the forums and complain about it if someone undercuts me.

So yesterday the first teq mini pet went on the TP for 1700G.

Based on the rationale in this thread, we should have only undecut by 1C.

But no one is going to pay 1700G for a minipet, and even the buy orders showed multiples in 350G.

Price kept getting undercut by a few hundred G and last I saw it was 900G. We have yet to reach equilibrium, and I bet the price will stabilize at around 400-500G, if it hasn’t already (I’m not in game)

Vol.5241:

So yesterday the first teq mini pet went on the TP for 1700G.

Based on the rationale in this thread, we should have only undecut by 1C.

But no one is going to pay 1700G for a minipet, and even the buy orders showed multiples in 350G.

Price kept getting undercut by a few hundred G and last I saw it was 900G. We have yet to reach equilibrium, and I bet the price will stabilize at around 400-500G, if it hasn’t already (I’m not in game)

That was more a gamble with new items when no one knows the “value” to the players.

Superior Rune of the Sunless hit the TP I believe there where 3 on the TP from the first event around 30-50g for one Rune. 2 of them sold now it is being undercut and crashed to about 8g last I saw. It happens everytime there are New items on the TP early adopters with gold to burn will buy it up right away then the item gets saturated and it drops down. Look at the hammers from champ farming and the 1 hand sword Lord Therea’s Shadow(not sure exact name).

Murdyr.9204:

People are going to buy it no matter if you undercut or not. The only thing you really do is lowering the price of whatever item you are undercutting for everyone.

gotta be nice being a 1%er to be able to buy stuff at any price.

6g on a 30g item is the difference between me buying it right now, or some time next week if it’s still there (assuming of course the item is actually worth 30g and isn’t really 25ish and is just temporarily spiked upwards by a demand/supply bump)

Vol’s reasons in his first post are basically why I undercut (and sometimes by a large margin). My rule of thumb when pricing items is to put it at midway between the buy and sell price points for the item (sometimes this will be at 75% if the item is slow moving). The exception to this are fast moving commodities, where I usually price them at a level that I know is the general market rate for them. Due to my playstyle, I sell a lot of salvagable items like hides and metal scrap that I pick up while adventuring, and I’m familiar enough with them that I know at what level to price them at to get quick sales, but also a good return.