Overbidding is the nature of the TP PvP when you are looking to buy goods cheap. I accept that. 1 to 10c overbidding on 15-20s bids is common. What baffles me is multi-silver overbidding on items in the 16-17s price range to 20s when the low sell is under 22s. The gap is too narrow for flipping and the price is too high for salvaging for a profit.
So what marketing strategy I’m not seeing here. There is too much product on sale at bellow flipping profit to “wait it out”. And I’m not talking about a single or a couple of buy offers at 20s but 20 or more. Please help me make sense of this beyond somebody wanting to prevent others from making any money while losing money themselves.
Maybe they need that item but want to save a couple of silver? They could be on their way to bed, and want the buy order fulfilled the next day. Not everybody puts buy orders for flipping. It could be they have need ectos for legendaries, rares for use for mystic forge, etc. etc.
This is across the board. I was buying level 80 rare armor for salvage and suddenly the price of all of them went to 20@20s for every rare armor with a rune from bids in the16-18s range. That’s a 400g+ worth of offers there. It makes no sense in terms of flipping because there are plenty of supply under 23s and salvaging ectos and runes on average would be a loss as well unless the RNG is ever in their favor.
There’s got to be another profit angle I’m not seeing because I can’t accept someone(s) just being a spoiler.
This is across the board. I was buying level 80 rare armor for salvage and suddenly the price of all of them went to 20@20s for every rare armor with a rune from bids in the16-18s range. That’s a 400g+ worth of offers there. It makes no sense in terms of flipping because there are plenty of supply under 23s and salvaging ectos and runes on average would be a loss as well unless the RNG is ever in their favor.
There’s got to be another profit angle I’m not seeing because I can’t accept someone(s) just being a spoiler.
That sounds like something I’d do to push people out of a market…..Those that want the items to flip will get tired of not having any income from some of those and may move elsewhere which means less competition.
Just sayin..
DH Yak’s Bend – Perfect Dark [PD]
Dr Hoppenheimer – Engi / Meowzir – Guard /
Mulcibur Nox – Ele / Mr Directed – Mes
bull kitten. 20s a rare? Let’s take a stack of ten that’s a 2g buy order. Now pre taxes, you gety 9/10 ectos at 23s a piece that’s 2,07g. You get 8/10 runes 4s roughly, that’s another 32s. Now in best case scenario you are salvaging metal and get ori at a 25% rate, that’s 2,5×4s=10s. Add 3s mithril. In total you get 2,52g worth of materials.
Now expenses. You were using master kit. thats about 6 s lost right there for the 10 charges, very roughly. Selling everything on TP add 15% total tax, selling a 2,52g worht of goods it’s about 38s. You are left with 2.52-0.06-0.38=2.08g
Total profit 8 silver. Add in the risk of RNG. Add in the work you put in salvaging making buy/sell orders. Don’t feel like it’s time efficient. Unless you grind Agent of Entrophy for the achi points. Which would make you a rather sick kitten. Or botting.
I overbid like that when I actually WANT the item to use. I don’t want to wait for the 2000 other items to be sold before I get the few I need and I’m willing to pay a premium to get the item sooner but I refuse to pay the too high “buy now” price.
This only happens on items that have a largish gap between “buy now” and “high bid” and if someone is doing it for quantity, they must have some hopes (or information) that the particular item is going to become high demand or low supply…..dunno.
We go out in the world and take our chances
Fate is just the weight of circumstances
That’s the way that lady luck dances
I’ll overbid if I actually want something that the flippers are in a bidding war over.
For example, if there’s a rune or sigil that is trading with a 10-20% profit. And I try to place a buy order only to immediately get outbid. And this happens several times. Then kitten it.
I’ll place a buy order just above the 10% profit margin level and call it a day This drives most of the flippers out of the market, and I still save over buying now.
edit: math was wrong and I’m too lazy to fix it.
Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.
I just saw TP war going on in Orich Ore market. multiple 2000 stack order. I laughed my kitten off and held off my purchase. So I just let them ride, they will be punished in the end for bidding so high.
It’s fun reading group A complain about 1c undercutting and how it’s negligible and meaningless, while group B complain about undercutting by more than 1c and how it’s wasted potential profits.
In the case of someone raising the buy order by a lot, I usually assume it’s someone with lots of sell listings for that item wanting to raise the price so their sell listings are sold. If you’re looking to buy a Rare armor with 20s49c buy orders and 20s50c sell listings, you’re going to buy the sell listings.
other possibilities include: they think it’s worth more than it is and want a lot of them (20s buy order is going to be filled much quicker than 17s buy order, especially when the sell listings are around 20-21s)
Here’s an example, look at around noon on the 24th. Before the raw data got thinned out they were nice squares where the buy jumped from around 17s50c to 20s.
Sell prices weren’t really affected. Bids increased a bit since then but that’s likely due to the increase demand. And like I said it was every rare level 80 armor with a rune who had a high bid bellow 20s had a 20@20s bid made within 5 minutes, which is doable manually. But as I said in my OP that’s over 400g of bids. Even if you were willing to eat a 10-20% loss it didn’t really affect bids after the 20s bids were pulled or fulfilled.
I could understand bidding that high if you looking to buy your player’s armor for less than what the low sell price was currently and you didn’t want to wait long but that’s a one off bid. And who buys level 80 rare armor for their character anyways.
Just a cursory glance at the numbers gives me this:
Glob of Ectoplasm = 22s66c
Major Rune = 3s20c to 1g32s0c
Salvaging will result in between 25s86c and 1g54s66c.
After market taxes, you have 21s98c to 1g31s46c.
When using a Master’s Salvage kit (0.9 Ectos per salvage), subtracting your salvage costs from the above still winds up leaving a net profit. With enough volume, that net profit should balance out the non-ecto salvages.
Plus you have the Ore, Fabric, and Leather drops as added revenue.
Seems to me that someone did the math decided to bid up to 20s on rares with runes.
Just a cursory glance at the numbers gives me this:
Glob of Ectoplasm = 22s66c
Major Rune = 3s20c to 1g32s0c
Salvaging will result in between 25s86c and 1g54s66c.
After market taxes, you have 21s98c to 1g31s46c.
When using a Master’s Salvage kit (0.9 Ectos per salvage), subtracting your salvage costs from the above still winds up leaving a net profit. With enough volume, that net profit should balance out the non-ecto salvages.
Plus you have the Ore, Fabric, and Leather drops as added revenue.
Seems to me that someone did the math decided to bid up to 20s on rares with runes.
Sorry but those runes arent available thru rare armors of the TP, maximum amount of coin you can get from a rune thats salvageable is 9-10s.
You don’t find 1g+ major runes on pieces going for under 20s. You don’t find ones that consistently sell for over 5s.
So lets limit runes to 3s20c to 5s for your example.
Runes have an 80% chance with master kits.
(2266 * 0.9 + 320 to 500 * 0.8) * 0.85 – 1536/25 = 1888c to 2012c
Mats don’t add a lot to the equation. Light armor drop silk at 7c vending price and gossamer at 1s; medium armor drop thick leather at 7c vending price and hard leather at 15c; heavy armor drop mithril at 27c and orichalcum at 4s50c range. Because of that heavy armor is priced much higher than light or medium. Regardless what the description says, T6 mats drop infrequently. My last salvage run of 215 dropped only 35 T6 and 400 or so of vendor grade T5 silk and thick leather. That added on average another 20c each to the pot.
That still makes the average return around 19s70c. That makes buying light and medium armor at 20s a losing affair unless the “odds are ever in your favor”. Get a poor ecto return and the losses become noticeably larger.
This is across the board. I was buying level 80 rare armor for salvage and suddenly the price of all of them went to 20@20s for every rare armor with a rune from bids in the16-18s range. That’s a 400g+ worth of offers there. It makes no sense in terms of flipping because there are plenty of supply under 23s and salvaging ectos and runes on average would be a loss as well unless the RNG is ever in their favor.
There’s got to be another profit angle I’m not seeing because I can’t accept someone(s) just being a spoiler.
That sounds like something I’d do to push people out of a market…..Those that want the items to flip will get tired of not having any income from some of those and may move elsewhere which means less competition.
Just sayin..
This. Other MMOs foster environments where bidders try to scare each other out of the market. People like the poster above falsely apply this tactic in the GW2 marketplace.
It doesn’t work btw. What you don’t understand is the sheer volume of flippable items on the market. You simply can’t cover enough ground.
So what is it doing? Making me chuckle, that’s what. I’ve flipped enough that I can tell what I will make money from and what I won’t just by looking at the prices. So when I pass over an item, it’s not because your buy offer was SO BIG AND SCARY!!! It means I know I won’t make any money from it.
But if I won’t, neither will you. No big deal… unless someone sells you the item, then you’re one stuck with it. And by ensuring I won’t make a profit from it, you’ve ensured you won’t either. So best case scenario you’re wasting your time, worst case scenario someone takes your ridiculous overcut and you lose money.
Meanwhile I’m taking my pick of the items that are still flippable, since there’s you know, thousands and thousands of them. So keep it up. Irony is so delicious.
And who buys level 80 rare armor for their character anyways.
You might be surprised. I know a couple of VERY casual players. One of them has recently hit 80, but since they play very rarely, and don’t plan on doing dungeons or other high-end content, just went for level 80 Rare gear since it was within their budget.
This is across the board. I was buying level 80 rare armor for salvage and suddenly the price of all of them went to 20@20s for every rare armor with a rune from bids in the16-18s range. That’s a 400g+ worth of offers there. It makes no sense in terms of flipping because there are plenty of supply under 23s and salvaging ectos and runes on average would be a loss as well unless the RNG is ever in their favor.
There’s got to be another profit angle I’m not seeing because I can’t accept someone(s) just being a spoiler.
That sounds like something I’d do to push people out of a market…..Those that want the items to flip will get tired of not having any income from some of those and may move elsewhere which means less competition.
Just sayin..
This. Other MMOs foster environments where bidders try to scare each other out of the market. People like the poster above falsely apply this tactic in the GW2 marketplace.
It doesn’t work btw. What you don’t understand is the sheer volume of flippable items on the market. You simply can’t cover enough ground.
So what is it doing? Making me chuckle, that’s what. I’ve flipped enough that I can tell what I will make money from and what I won’t just by looking at the prices. So when I pass over an item, it’s not because your buy offer was SO BIG AND SCARY!!! It means I know I won’t make any money from it.
But if I won’t, neither will you. No big deal… unless someone sells you the item, then you’re one stuck with it. And by ensuring I won’t make a profit from it, you’ve ensured you won’t either. So best case scenario you’re wasting your time, worst case scenario someone takes your ridiculous overcut and you lose money.
Meanwhile I’m taking my pick of the items that are still flippable, since there’s you know, thousands and thousands of them. So keep it up. Irony is so delicious.
I was just providing a suggestion as to why it would happen mr cranky. But for reals, you literally JUST proved my point. You’d bypass the item. Low volume items work wonderfully considering you wont eat many at the high price. Your high bid doesn’t even have to be break even, most people drop out before it gets there.
I’d sure as hell not do it for high volume items though. No way no how.
DH Yak’s Bend – Perfect Dark [PD]
Dr Hoppenheimer – Engi / Meowzir – Guard /
Mulcibur Nox – Ele / Mr Directed – Mes
You don’t find 1g+ major runes on pieces going for under 20s. You don’t find ones that consistently sell for over 5s.
So lets limit runes to 3s20c to 5s for your example.
Runes have an 80% chance with master kits.
(2266 * 0.9 + 320 to 500 * 0.8) * 0.85 – 1536/25 = 1888c to 2012c
Mats don’t add a lot to the equation. Light armor drop silk at 7c vending price and gossamer at 1s; medium armor drop thick leather at 7c vending price and hard leather at 15c; heavy armor drop mithril at 27c and orichalcum at 4s50c range. Because of that heavy armor is priced much higher than light or medium. Regardless what the description says, T6 mats drop infrequently. My last salvage run of 215 dropped only 35 T6 and 400 or so of vendor grade T5 silk and thick leather. That added on average another 20c each to the pot.
That still makes the average return around 19s70c. That makes buying light and medium armor at 20s a losing affair unless the “odds are ever in your favor”. Get a poor ecto return and the losses become noticeably larger.
Honestly say if I personally were doing this, and would only losing 30c (per item) bought? I would take a 1g (for a loss of 30c each for 333) loss to throw in 333 orders at 20s and drive everyone else out of the market. A 1g loss is tiny, and I wouldn’t even bat an eye at it if I could knock someone else off my market, and then go back to earning 1-2s+ per item after they are essentially tired of dealing with me.
You think it is a failure, because you don’t understand it. But if they are doing it correctly, even a 20g loss (say edging people out of high priced dyes) to edge people out of any market, nets a HUGE return in not having to deal with other people pushing your market.
But back to my original example. If buying 333 items at 20s will kick you out of my Rare Armor/Weapon market, and make you give up. Spending 1g is not a huge problem.
That guy however, was either rolling rares into Exotics, or rolling for a precursor. And if he gets lucky its a huge payoff for him and well worth the cost.
You don’t find 1g+ major runes on pieces going for under 20s. You don’t find ones that consistently sell for over 5s.
So lets limit runes to 3s20c to 5s for your example.
Runes have an 80% chance with master kits.
(2266 * 0.9 + 320 to 500 * 0.8) * 0.85 – 1536/25 = 1888c to 2012c
Mats don’t add a lot to the equation. Light armor drop silk at 7c vending price and gossamer at 1s; medium armor drop thick leather at 7c vending price and hard leather at 15c; heavy armor drop mithril at 27c and orichalcum at 4s50c range. Because of that heavy armor is priced much higher than light or medium. Regardless what the description says, T6 mats drop infrequently. My last salvage run of 215 dropped only 35 T6 and 400 or so of vendor grade T5 silk and thick leather. That added on average another 20c each to the pot.
That still makes the average return around 19s70c. That makes buying light and medium armor at 20s a losing affair unless the “odds are ever in your favor”. Get a poor ecto return and the losses become noticeably larger.
Honestly say if I personally were doing this, and would only losing 30c (per item) bought? I would take a 1g (for a loss of 30c each for 333) loss to throw in 333 orders at 20s and drive everyone else out of the market. A 1g loss is tiny, and I wouldn’t even bat an eye at it if I could knock someone else off my market, and then go back to earning 1-2s+ per item after they are essentially tired of dealing with me.
You think it is a failure, because you don’t understand it. But if they are doing it correctly, even a 20g loss (say edging people out of high priced dyes) to edge people out of any market, nets a HUGE return in not having to deal with other people pushing your market.
But back to my original example. If buying 333 items at 20s will kick you out of my Rare Armor/Weapon market, and make you give up. Spending 1g is not a huge problem.
That guy however, was either rolling rares into Exotics, or rolling for a precursor. And if he gets lucky its a huge payoff for him and well worth the cost.
Except once profit returns, they will be back. ahahhahah. I WILL BE BACK!
And who buys level 80 rare armor for their character anyways.
You might be surprised. I know a couple of VERY casual players. One of them has recently hit 80, but since they play very rarely, and don’t plan on doing dungeons or other high-end content, just went for level 80 Rare gear since it was within their budget.
Until a little over a week ago (when gems still sold for 3g60s) my main was still running around with a lvl 80 green hat and lvl 80 rares in 3 other armour slots. It was simply a question of getting Trasmutation Stones from the gem store without using $s. So I would not be surprised if other “casual” players took the same route.
Recently returned to…
…Aurora Glade some random MegaServer™, always being asked to volunteer for that buff…
Ranger | Necromancer | Warrior | Engineer | Thief
I don’t think this is a case of one person trying to play smart. Like it was stated before, this rare armor being 20s is across the board, it’s ALL of it. Everything from level 70 on up went to 20s minimum. Not too long ago it was relatively easy to offer to buy a bunch of rares for 12-14s, or 15-17s to buy instantly. Dump into mystic toilet or salvage it, do whatever you want with it. Now there simply isn’t anything under 20s.
I really wish Anet wouldn’t screw with the economy this early into the game by nerfing rare drops (the champion loot/dungeon changes) and introducing a new crafting tier. If these prices (along with T6 mats) are here to stay, it seriously just dropped the value of everyone’s bank account.
Oh also: i run around with level 80 rare armor too when my alts first hit 80. I save up for exotic armor piece by piece and take my time, cuz honestly the stat boost going to exotic isn’t that big a difference anyways.
Well I should have added a :p if I knew that one line will get quoted so much.
My first character also ran green with only a yellow or two from drops or armor boxes via the laurel vendor, right up until I visited a temple in Orr. Of course now I can twink any new characters to the best available at their level up to and including exotic sets from the TP.
And it appears somebody wants to illustrate the “push sellers off market” with my big pile of gold as CuteLil points out with mass 19s and 20s bids on all ecto salvageable armor. Fortunately ecto prices have risen to compensate with the increase cost of “raw” materials as supplies drop off, showing that salvagers are being pushed out for mean time.
