Guild Wars 2

How come they are so expensive now? I thought anet killing the champ trains would bring the value down, and instead it has more than doubled in the past month or so. Is it the pavillion or they are just making gems more and more expensive so people will start buying them with cash instead?

The concept is supposed to be based on demand. We have no proof it is being followed that way, but the idea is that the more people are converting gold to gems, the higher the price for gems goes, because of demand.

So if gem costs are really high, odds are lots of people are converting gold to gems.

Again, there is no proof it works this way, for all we know everything is manipulated by Anet.

Anet placing new skins on gem shop only make gem increase in value. There is more demand for them and not enough supply into the gem market. People who buy gem are usually for their personal consumption and not usually traded for gold. Gem price is going to go up and up. More and more people is realizing that.

Anet has increased the pace of gem store items being released. It is also much easier to earn gold now than it was 6 months ago even with the champ train nerf. These two things combined mean that players are converting gold to gems more and more, which in turn drives up the exchange rate.

It will only go up with season 2 coming up. Which is good for me.

Korossive.7085:

Some players have accumulated so much wealth, over 100k of gold and upwards, that ArenaNet doesn’t know how to bring them down anymore. Rich players can’t care less about a thousand here, a thousand there when on the demand side.

on the contrary – rich people are only rich because they care about a thousand here, a thousand there. If they threw thousands of gold at the gem store, they wouldn’t be rich.
also, there are very few players that are up to 6 digits.

Korossive.7085:

…Some players have accumulated so much wealth, over 100k of gold and upwards, that ArenaNet doesn’t know how to bring them down anymore..

This will always be the case, both in RL and in any game that lasts for a while…
So what do you suggest to “bring them down”?

KarateKid.5648:

Korossive.7085:

…Some players have accumulated so much wealth, over 100k of gold and upwards, that ArenaNet doesn’t know how to bring them down anymore..

This will always be the case, both in RL and in any game that lasts for a while…
So what do you suggest to “bring them down”?

you dont, you just build content so that it isnt gold is not the main means of reliably obtaining things, but rather the main means of trading between people who reliably obtain things, that said gem store stuff can only be obtained two ways, so gold will always be the determining factor

The Gem Exchange was developed to pay for the gold players get by selling gems by offering gems for gold. This way no “new” gold is introduced into the game’s economy, only gold (for the most part) that players got via play and used to buy gems.

A long time ago the dev John Smith said the exchange was set up with a tiny amount of gold and an astronomical amount of gems. That’s why when it went live 100 gems cost around 30 silver. It is implied that the exchange rate is based on the ratio between the gold and the gems in the exchange. As more gems are purchased with gold the more gold and less gems the exchange has so the ratio between the two goes up. The reverse is true if a player sells gems to the exchange for gold, the less gold and more gems the exchange has so the rate drops.

Now we’ve been buying gems for 21-22 months now. Every time some new popular thing appears in the Gem Shop or returns from an absence or goes on sale, players rush to convert what gold they have to purchase it. This causes spikes at various times as various populations around the world log on and notice the item. But as long as players take advantage of the ability to buy items from the Gem (Cash) Shop for free, it will get more expensive to do so every week, every month until more players bite the proverbial bullet and open their wallets. And at the current rate it is starting to become attractive to buy gems with cash and exchange it for gold. It’s over 7.6g per $1 or 1 Euro right now. No need to deal with shady spammers with the threat of permanent ban if caught over your head.

So what did we get today to move the market? Sale on Kites, Name Change Contract and bank slots. Limited time on the bank slots so I read that as a weekend only sale.

One other thing about the exchange. It acts as both a permanent gold sink, eliminating 27.75% of the gold players spend while also sequestering the rest for gem sellers. It sucks up excess gold in the game’s economy and helps to keep general inflation in check.

What is happening is that there are very few things to spend a lot of gold on, and thus very little reason for people to convert gems to gold.

The price for 100 gems is insane now. 11-13g? :-/ like another person said, I feel sorry for new players!

Zaoda.1653:

The price for 100 gems is insane now. 11-13g? :-/ like another person said, I feel sorry for new players!

How exactly does cash shop access affect new players?

I made 200k gold

But iunno what else to buy

Charak.9761:

I made 200k gold

But iunno what else to buy

You could donate it. You could do what scrogged mcduck and swim in it. Or buy someone random player the anomaly.

and in 6 months 1g is 1gem worth and anet gonna swim in Money because no one can buy the gem stuff with Gold anymore and pays real Money for new skins
longtime Mission completed anet

snow.8097:

and in 6 months 1g is 1gem worth and anet gonna swim in Money because no one can buy the gem stuff with Gold anymore and pays real Money for new skins
longtime Mission completed anet

actually they get more money from gold to gems to store, if the system is actually direct.
Due to the taxes. remember in theory every gem sold is acounted for by some one who bought gems.
so if you buy it direct, you pay for the item, if you buy it with gold, someone else paid, and they took some tax out.

The whole point of the system is that they always get paid regardless.

Because a higher gem price improves profit for ArenaNet. Here is why:

1. For people who buy gems with cash: It does not matter much if the gem store items are not desirable because:
a. There is always the opportunity cost to buy gold, so that they can convert gems to gold and use that to buy items from the TP. This becomes an attractive option when gem prices are high.
b. If gem prices are high, paying cash instead of gold for gem store items become a more attractive option.

Therefore, to keep cash flowing into ANet’s coffers, they should keep gem prices high!

The question then becomes, how is ANet going to keep gem prices high and keep their profits rolling in? The answer is from:

2. The people who buy gems with gold. This group of players is important because only they can keep the price of gems going up. So how can ANet motivate this group?
a. Make more attractive gem store items to keep them buying gems. This is an obvious direct route. Keep in mind that the gem store items need to be mainly attractive to this group of players as the group in point 1 above, would still find buying gems with cash attractive as long as gem prices are high regardless of their perceived quality of the gem store items.
b. Give gem store items more unique (i.e. not found anywhere in game) and useful functionality that people want. This is actually a subpoint of ponit a, above.

snow.8097:

and in 6 months 1g is 1gem worth and anet gonna swim in Money because no one can buy the gem stuff with Gold anymore and pays real Money for new skins
longtime Mission completed anet

In case you didn’t know this, making a profit is what every business tries to do. In ANet’s case it’s the sale of gems. If players can get free stuff by using ingame Monopoly money (gold), well that’s cool but not necessarily what drives ANet as a business.

I’m beginning to think they should not have put the conversion of gold to gems in game. To many people now seem to think it’s some sort of inalienable right to get free stuff with ingame Monopoly money.

@Dark Spirit – Don’t forget that gold spent on gems is gold that can’t contribute to inflation caused by excessive money supply growth. It doesn’t permanently remove all of it, since that’s what gets paid out when you sell gems, but it’s most certainly acting as control rods in the economy’s reactor.

snow.8097:

and in 6 months 1g is 1gem worth and anet gonna swim in Money because no one can buy the gem stuff with Gold anymore and pays real Money for new skins
longtime Mission completed anet

I don’t think anet cares if you can’t buy stuff with gold, they would prefer $$. Using gold to get gems was a brilliant ploy to get more players tempted to buy more gems. As gems to gold raises more players become tempted to do $$ to gem to gold.

A for profit is always looking at ways to make profit.

silvermember.8941:

Zaoda.1653:

The price for 100 gems is insane now. 11-13g? :-/ like another person said, I feel sorry for new players!

How exactly does cash shop access affect new players?

I thought it would kinda be common sense, but…

When you’re new you don’t have much gold, and if you want stuff from the gemstore, you’re going to have to get rich fast – especially if there is something in the store that you want but is only on for a limited time and you don’t want to spend real life money on it.

Zaoda.1653:

silvermember.8941:

Zaoda.1653:

The price for 100 gems is insane now. 11-13g? :-/ like another person said, I feel sorry for new players!

How exactly does cash shop access affect new players?

I thought it would kinda be common sense, but…

When you’re new you don’t have much gold, and if you want stuff from the gemstore, you’re going to have to get rich fast – especially if there is something in the store that you want but is only on for a limited time and you don’t want to spend real life money on it.

I think you are conflating entitlement with common sense, but why should I be shocked. Give a man an inch and they demand a foot.

I also thought it was common sense that you don’t NEED anything in the cash shop to play or enjoy the game. So as a new player it really doesn’t matter if you cant afford anything in the cash shop because you are not suppose to. If you don’t have gold, use cash, if you don’t have cash use gold and if you dont have gold and don’t want to spend cash, you don’t deserve anything from the cash shop.

I know it is hard, when you THINK you are ENTITLED to stuff. Eventually, you are going to have to get over it, this one of those things that ARenanet will never change since for most reasonable people, the current system is sufficient.

The problem with Gems is that they are the perfect hedge against currency devaluation (or in other words inflation). Pile your gold into gems and they are guaranteed to go up and up and up in terms of changing them back to gold again.

Of course, they have to cross a threshold to take into account the exchange rate (/gold-sink/tax, whatever you want to call it), but ultimately the price is guaranteed to do so.

Got a spare 1000 gold hanging about? Why not buy gems now and sell them when they’ve doubled in value? Because they will, because people are using them as a currency hedge.

Behellagh.1468:

@Dark Spirit – Don’t forget that gold spent on gems is gold that can’t contribute to inflation caused by excessive money supply growth. It doesn’t permanently remove all of it, since that’s what gets paid out when you sell gems, but it’s most certainly acting as control rods in the economy’s reactor.

That is a common excuse to justify having the gold to gems conversion, but I don’t think people who think that has thought this through.

The gold to gem conversion is mainly used to justify the value of their gem store items, not so much as an inflation control mechanism. If, instead of gems, they charge money and price their infinite mining pick at US$10 each, some of you may feel that a mere virtual item should not be worth so much money. But if they turn around and say that it is worth 70g of virtual gold in the game, then you can gauge how much effort is required in the game in order to save up to 70g and translate to a value for the pick.

So as the price of gems go up, the perceived value of their gem store items also go up, without ANet needing to do anything to improve their products, while their cash prices remain the same. This automatically makes their gems more and more attractive to buy for players with cash.

Didn’t say it was a designed intention for the exchange, just another affect it produces.

If gw1 is over 8 years old now and gw2 follows the same path we can expect gold → gem prices to exceed 100g per gem in the future, sounds like great planning to me.

In just 2 short years it went from a couple silver to a dozen gold for the same amount of gems all while reducing in-game wealth accumulation via nerfs. Thanks.

DarkSpirit.7046:

The gold to gem conversion is mainly used to justify the value of their gem store items, not so much as an inflation control mechanism. If, instead of gems, they charge money and price their infinite mining pick at US$10 each, some of you may feel that a mere virtual item should not be worth so much money. But if they turn around and say that it is worth 70g of virtual gold in the game, then you can gauge how much effort is required in the game in order to save up to 70g and translate to a value for the pick.

So as the price of gems go up, the perceived value of their gem store items also go up, without ANet needing to do anything to improve their products, while their cash prices remain the same. This automatically makes their gems more and more attractive to buy for players with cash.

Bold for relevance… Anet is taking the Apple way of doing economy. Don’t improve your product (gem store items) but keep it as expensive as the public will pay for with their limited monies.

E.G. partial skins that come in only one flavor: Here’s your shoulder and glove skins for heavy armor that you can apply to light and medium as well, we’re not going to make a full armor set cause that’s way too much work but we’re going to charge you for it in a way that makes you think we’re working on the other parts!

The whole gold to gems etc deal is Anet’s way of providing a gold sink AND a way for them to make cash. Trading gold for gems sucks the gold out of the economy and buying gems with gold lines Anet’s pockets with real cash. Those of you who say otherwise do realize, there is no finite amount of gems or gold in the “store” right? Anet can create gold or gems out of thin air kind of like how the US government can just print paper money when they want. Sure years ago it was based on the gold reserves the government held but paper currency has become decoupled from precious metals years ago and there will never be a gold standard again. But anyways, yeah there is no finite amount of gold or gems in GW2.

Except they outlined that’s not how the exchange works. It has only a finite amount of gems. Astronomically huge when it went live but finite. That’s why the rate goes up. The exchange doesn’t create gems or gold, it merely hands out what it has in it’s own vaults.

Now buying gems with cash does create gems from scratch but that doesn’t hurt the game’s economy at all since the gold players get from selling gems was deposited in the exchange by players buying gems with gold. Gold that was created and dropped during the normal course of game play.

Sure, call them liars. Accuse them of manipulating the exchange rate directly minute to minute rather than accepting the exchange rate is in our bally-wick, that it’s an example of the “tragedy of the commons” and that all Anet can control is when they put highly desirable items into the Gem Shop. Sure, maybe they set us up, relying on human nature (aka greed) to get something for nothing and therefore herd the masses into a TotC situation to boost cash Gem sales. Personally I think it’s clever, getting players hooked on a “free” game and gradually increase the pressure to spend additional cash.

Well I take what any MMO company says with a grain of salt. I’ve played too many MMOs in my years and have heard all sort of “promises” and “statements” which get changed or deleted and told or untold. How many other things has Anet outlined that have been changed or scraped. Didn’t one of Anet’s guys say that this game wasn’t gonna be your typical hack and slash grindfest, yet you have grind a TON for gold to buy stuff. Not that I’m complaining personally since I came from Korean grindfests like Aion, Lineage 2, Tera so this is kindergarten compared to those grinds. Just using it as an example.

And yes, it is very smart of them to do but again they are just using the same cash store models that other games have used for years. I personally still think they create the gems to meet the demands. I mean if they had a finite amount and for some odd reason they ever ran out, what would they do, close down the cash shop? No they would create gems since that is their main source of income. Regardless, I wish I would bought tons of gems on head start instead of mastering all the crafts

Behellagh.1468:

and that all Anet can control is when they put highly desirable items into the Gem Shop.

Basically you says, Anet purposely put exchange low to get people hook and they have no control of gem price? (beside putting desirable item in).

Seriously I dont’ know what is happening in that black box. But no ones knows beside Anet.

That is not to say they keep the gem price high. Obviously there must be some magical number which will maximize Anet profit, because high exchange rate also mean people trying to buy in game gold will need to spend less real world cash.

But I dont’ think anyone knows what’s going on beside Anet. But quite honestly, casual playing making 3 gold per hour isn’t difficult. And playing 30 hours you have enough money to buy those 800 gem stuff in the cash shop. Most people desperate for gold are probably those after super expensive skins(eg legendary).

phys.7689:

snow.8097:

and in 6 months 1g is 1gem worth and anet gonna swim in Money because no one can buy the gem stuff with Gold anymore and pays real Money for new skins
longtime Mission completed anet

actually they get more money from gold to gems to store, if the system is actually direct.
Due to the taxes. remember in theory every gem sold is acounted for by some one who bought gems.
so if you buy it direct, you pay for the item, if you buy it with gold, someone else paid, and they took some tax out.

The whole point of the system is that they always get paid regardless.

actually the only one who payed are the ones who used real money, the gold→gem exchange gives them absolutely no profit whatsoever.
taxes are already done by the one who actually bought the gems, no player generates any tax on anything with the gold→gem exchange, not even on the gem→gold exchange.

They have been rolling out new items along with previous limited time items on a weekly basis and on discount to boot. So demand for gems is very high for those people who missed out the first time around. This is obviously done on purpose to keep revenues up just like ant other sale ever, but increased demand for gems will also drive the conversion price up as well.

On the plus side this is GREAT for new players. $20 in gems now gets you over 100g, meaning a new player can level 2 crafts, get exotic armor, buy some nice skins, and still have money left over to start working on ascended. Never been a better time to start playing GW2.

“What’s happening to gems?”

Basic economics.

More people want to avoid spending real money for gem store items, so they spend gold. This depletes the “stock” of gems and causes the remaining gems to cost more.

At some point, we will have a relatively equal number of people who are buying gems for gold as we have using gold for gems which will stabilize the exchange rate.

sorudo.9054:

phys.7689:

snow.8097:

and in 6 months 1g is 1gem worth and anet gonna swim in Money because no one can buy the gem stuff with Gold anymore and pays real Money for new skins
longtime Mission completed anet

actually they get more money from gold to gems to store, if the system is actually direct.
Due to the taxes. remember in theory every gem sold is acounted for by some one who bought gems.
so if you buy it direct, you pay for the item, if you buy it with gold, someone else paid, and they took some tax out.

The whole point of the system is that they always get paid regardless.

actually the only one who payed are the ones who used real money, the gold->gem exchange gives them absolutely no profit whatsoever.
taxes are already done by the one who actually bought the gems, no player generates any tax on anything with the gold->gem exchange, not even on the gem->gold exchange.

Essentially GW2 is selling gold, or rather, allowing players to sell gold to other players.
If any one makes a gems→gold purchase they are giving anet money, so they can trade with players.

So there is a value for gold =gems.

Essentially people who trade gold to gems are employees for anet, they are workers who create a product of game rewards for people who want stuff faster and easier.

the tax essentially is like the players getting paid less for the same service, or buyers getting less product for the same money.

Behellagh.1468:

Sure, call them liars. Accuse them of manipulating the exchange rate directly minute to minute rather than accepting the exchange rate is in our bally-wick, that it’s an example of the “tragedy of the commons” and that all Anet can control is when they put highly desirable items into the Gem Shop. Sure, maybe they set us up, relying on human nature (aka greed) to get something for nothing and therefore herd the masses into a TotC situation to boost cash Gem sales. Personally I think it’s clever, getting players hooked on a “free” game and gradually increase the pressure to spend additional cash.

When someone is convinced the world is flat, nothing you can say is going to change his mind. It’s best just to quietly walk away and leave him alone.

Sauzo.6821:

And yes, it is very smart of them to do but again they are just using the same cash store models that other games have used for years. I personally still think they create the gems to meet the demands. I mean if they had a finite amount and for some odd reason they ever ran out, what would they do, close down the cash shop? No they would create gems since that is their main source of income. Regardless, I wish I would bought tons of gems on head start instead of mastering all the crafts

The discussion is about the gems to gold exchange, not gems in general. Go into any WalMart and there are boxes with thousands of gem cards, you can buy gems online via credit card. Those gems are limitless, because they are produced in a similar manner to the gold awarded for killing a boss or running a dungeon. The supply in both cases is limitless because they are created, not exchanged.

But when you buy gems for gold, it comes from a separate pool of existing gems that have already been paid for and the gold (minus tax) is set aside in a similar “box” for later use when someone buys gems for real money and trades them for gold.

The gold to gems exchange works only with existing gold/gems and does not create a single unit of either one. In theory one side or the other can run dry, but long before that happens the exchange rate will encourage players to cash in and replenish the supply.

Keep in mind that thousands of transactions happen every hour, the gems/gold supply is in the billions, at least, and working with numbers like that is a little different than handling a few hundred or thousand.

Aenesthesia.1697:

How come they are so expensive now? I thought anet killing the champ trains would bring the value down, and instead it has more than doubled in the past month or so. Is it the pavillion or they are just making gems more and more expensive so people will start buying them with cash instead?

Fist of all, ArenaNet is not making Gem prices, it is player-driven market, where supply and demand is handling the prices.

Gem price will get down, when players buys gems with real money and exhange them to the game gold. Gem price will get higher when player exchange game gold to the gems. That means player-driven market. So gem price will get higher and higher what more players are exchange game gold to the gems. So it is us, players, who make that gem price getting high or down. It only means that there is more players who are changing game gold to the gems that players who are buying gems with real money and exchange them to game gold.

Queensdale train didn’t affect gem prices at all. Mostly people just had fun in there and gather little money and levels to next alt and buy with those money armors and weapons to that new alt

tolunart.2095:

Sauzo.6821:

And yes, it is very smart of them to do but again they are just using the same cash store models that other games have used for years. I personally still think they create the gems to meet the demands. I mean if they had a finite amount and for some odd reason they ever ran out, what would they do, close down the cash shop? No they would create gems since that is their main source of income. Regardless, I wish I would bought tons of gems on head start instead of mastering all the crafts

The discussion is about the gems to gold exchange, not gems in general. Go into any WalMart and there are boxes with thousands of gem cards, you can buy gems online via credit card. Those gems are limitless, because they are produced in a similar manner to the gold awarded for killing a boss or running a dungeon. The supply in both cases is limitless because they are created, not exchanged.

But when you buy gems for gold, it comes from a separate pool of existing gems that have already been paid for and the gold (minus tax) is set aside in a similar “box” for later use when someone buys gems for real money and trades them for gold.

The gold to gems exchange works only with existing gold/gems and does not create a single unit of either one. In theory one side or the other can run dry, but long before that happens the exchange rate will encourage players to cash in and replenish the supply.

Keep in mind that thousands of transactions happen every hour, the gems/gold supply is in the billions, at least, and working with numbers like that is a little different than handling a few hundred or thousand.

where do you guys get your info on the inner workings of the gem exchange, preusing JS history of posts tends to suggest that what you diescribe is not the case

phys.7689:

sorudo.9054:

phys.7689:

snow.8097:

and in 6 months 1g is 1gem worth and anet gonna swim in Money because no one can buy the gem stuff with Gold anymore and pays real Money for new skins
longtime Mission completed anet

actually they get more money from gold to gems to store, if the system is actually direct.
Due to the taxes. remember in theory every gem sold is acounted for by some one who bought gems.
so if you buy it direct, you pay for the item, if you buy it with gold, someone else paid, and they took some tax out.

The whole point of the system is that they always get paid regardless.

actually the only one who payed are the ones who used real money, the gold->gem exchange gives them absolutely no profit whatsoever.
taxes are already done by the one who actually bought the gems, no player generates any tax on anything with the gold->gem exchange, not even on the gem->gold exchange.

Essentially GW2 is selling gold, or rather, allowing players to sell gold to other players.
If any one makes a gems->gold purchase they are giving anet money, so they can trade with players.

So there is a value for gold =gems.

Essentially people who trade gold to gems are employees for anet, they are workers who create a product of game rewards for people who want stuff faster and easier.

the tax essentially is like the players getting paid less for the same service, or buyers getting less product for the same money.

…..no real money, no profit……that’s it.

sorudo.9054:

phys.7689:

sorudo.9054:

phys.7689:

snow.8097:

and in 6 months 1g is 1gem worth and anet gonna swim in Money because no one can buy the gem stuff with Gold anymore and pays real Money for new skins
longtime Mission completed anet

actually they get more money from gold to gems to store, if the system is actually direct.
Due to the taxes. remember in theory every gem sold is acounted for by some one who bought gems.
so if you buy it direct, you pay for the item, if you buy it with gold, someone else paid, and they took some tax out.

The whole point of the system is that they always get paid regardless.

actually the only one who payed are the ones who used real money, the gold->gem exchange gives them absolutely no profit whatsoever.
taxes are already done by the one who actually bought the gems, no player generates any tax on anything with the gold->gem exchange, not even on the gem->gold exchange.

Essentially GW2 is selling gold, or rather, allowing players to sell gold to other players.
If any one makes a gems->gold purchase they are giving anet money, so they can trade with players.

So there is a value for gold =gems.

Essentially people who trade gold to gems are employees for anet, they are workers who create a product of game rewards for people who want stuff faster and easier.

the tax essentially is like the players getting paid less for the same service, or buyers getting less product for the same money.

…..no real money, no profit……that’s it.

the real money is the money the gem seller spent in order to get gold. Created by another player.

Essentially other players are creating a gem store item that people who dont care about what they actually produce in the gem store can buy.

they pay these players in items the guy with the money wasnt interested in anyhow. but they pay them at a lower rate than they would normally get it the sold it themselves.

Essentially lets say GW2 owned a store, and people could buy anything in the store, or pay the owner 10 bucks to kiss any employee. Every dude who spends 10 bucks to kiss an employee, was more interested in kissing the employee than anything in the store. They then pay the employee 7 in store credit dollars for every purchase.

The owner is actually getting more value when an employee buys a 10 dollar item with store credit, because if the employee had just kissed the customer outside of the store, they would have gotten 10 dollars, and been able to buy something they wanted, instead of getting 7 dollars and having to kiss more people to get the 10 dollar item.

So essentially the owner is selling a new product, and getting more value for a product that wasnt selling anyway, once you also realize the in store items are infinite, and take up no space, its a real gain in value to do it this way.

phys.7689:

sorudo.9054:

phys.7689:

sorudo.9054:

phys.7689:

snow.8097:

and in 6 months 1g is 1gem worth and anet gonna swim in Money because no one can buy the gem stuff with Gold anymore and pays real Money for new skins
longtime Mission completed anet

actually they get more money from gold to gems to store, if the system is actually direct.
Due to the taxes. remember in theory every gem sold is acounted for by some one who bought gems.
so if you buy it direct, you pay for the item, if you buy it with gold, someone else paid, and they took some tax out.

The whole point of the system is that they always get paid regardless.

actually the only one who payed are the ones who used real money, the gold->gem exchange gives them absolutely no profit whatsoever.
taxes are already done by the one who actually bought the gems, no player generates any tax on anything with the gold->gem exchange, not even on the gem->gold exchange.

Essentially GW2 is selling gold, or rather, allowing players to sell gold to other players.
If any one makes a gems->gold purchase they are giving anet money, so they can trade with players.

So there is a value for gold =gems.

Essentially people who trade gold to gems are employees for anet, they are workers who create a product of game rewards for people who want stuff faster and easier.

the tax essentially is like the players getting paid less for the same service, or buyers getting less product for the same money.

…..no real money, no profit……that’s it.

the real money is the money the gem seller spent in order to get gold. Created by another player.

Essentially other players are creating a gem store item that people who dont care about what they actually produce in the gem store can buy.

they pay these players in items the guy with the money wasnt interested in anyhow. but they pay them at a lower rate than they would normally get it the sold it themselves.

Essentially lets say GW2 owned a store, and people could buy anything in the store, or pay the owner 10 bucks to kiss any employee. Every dude who spends 10 bucks to kiss an employee, was more interested in kissing the employee than anything in the store. They then pay the employee 7 in store credit dollars for every purchase.

The owner is actually getting more value when an employee buys a 10 dollar item with store credit, because if the employee had just kissed the customer outside of the store, they would have gotten 10 dollars, and been able to buy something they wanted, instead of getting 7 dollars and having to kiss more people to get the 10 dollar item.

So essentially the owner is selling a new product, and getting more value for a product that wasnt selling anyway, once you also realize the in store items are infinite, and take up no space, its a real gain in value to do it this way.

again, no real money, no profit.
nice try tho

phys.7689:

where do you guys get your info on the inner workings of the gem exchange, preusing JS history of posts tends to suggest that what you diescribe is not the case

John Smith.4610:

There seems to be some confusion:
The currency exchange has a supply of Gems and Gold.

If players are converting Gold to Gems, then the Amount of Gold player will receive for their gems goes up.
If players are converting Gems to Gold, then the amount of Gems players receive for Gold goes up.

The exchange rate changes based on the scarcity of each supply. You cannot inflate it, it’s an exchange rate. As players purchase in one direction, it entices purchases in the other direction.

To paraphrase:

The exchange contains X gold and Y gems. These numbers change constantly as transactions occur.

When X goes up and Y goes down, the gold value of gems increases because there is now more gold and less gems. So if you sell gems you get more gold, while it costs more to buy gems with gold.

When Y goes up and X goes down, there are now more gems and less gold, so the value of gems decreases and it costs less gold to buy each gem, and you get less gold for each gem you sell.

sorudo.9054:

again, no real money, no profit.
nice try tho

Not sure what the problem here is.

There are gems in the exchange that can be bought for gold. Originally, those gems were placed there by Anet at the beginning of the game, but most likely these have already been used and most or all of the gems currently in existence have been paid for by other players.

New gems are placed into the exchange when someone purchases a gem code for real money and sells those gems to the exchange for gold to use in the game. A small percentage of gems also come from the AP rewards chests, but so little that it doesn’t affect the company any more than handing out a few thousand $1 off coupons.

It’s safe to say that while there may be a few % of “free” gems in circulation, any gem spent in the gem store represents money in Anet’s pocket whether it came from a direct purchase or was bought via the exchange.

As much as I agree with you tolunart, I disagree that the original seed of gems have been exhausted and we are only trading on player bought gems now. I would expect greater swings though the day if that was true.

Behellagh.1468:

As much as I agree with you tolunart, I disagree that the original seed of gems have been exhausted and we are only trading on player bought gems now. I would expect greater swings though the day if that was true.

I said “most likely” because I suspect this, but don’t know for sure. I guess I should follow my own advice once in a while:

tolunart.2095:

Keep in mind that thousands of transactions happen every hour, the gems/gold supply is in the billions, at least, and working with numbers like that is a little different than handling a few hundred or thousand.

tolunart.2095:

phys.7689:

where do you guys get your info on the inner workings of the gem exchange, preusing JS history of posts tends to suggest that what you diescribe is not the case

John Smith.4610:

There seems to be some confusion:
The currency exchange has a supply of Gems and Gold.

If players are converting Gold to Gems, then the Amount of Gold player will receive for their gems goes up.
If players are converting Gems to Gold, then the amount of Gems players receive for Gold goes up.

The exchange rate changes based on the scarcity of each supply. You cannot inflate it, it’s an exchange rate. As players purchase in one direction, it entices purchases in the other direction.

To paraphrase:

The exchange contains X gold and Y gems. These numbers change constantly as transactions occur.

When X goes up and Y goes down, the gold value of gems increases because there is now more gold and less gems. So if you sell gems you get more gold, while it costs more to buy gems with gold.

When Y goes up and X goes down, there are now more gems and less gold, so the value of gems decreases and it costs less gold to buy each gem, and you get less gold for each gem you sell.

yes its an exchange rate, based on a transaction algorithm, its not like a literal fort knox. It doesnt really matter effectively if it is or it is not, but it is not.

Essentially its not like an old school bank, its just an exchange rate determined by the calculated value based on the exchanges. They print money or gems as needed. They can even make adjustments if they feel the rate isnt condusive to whatever their goals are at the time. such as not making it spike too kittene way or the other.

There was a whole debate on the fact that it wasnt direct at one point, and how they could adjust it.

But hey maybe that was misrepresented, or i got it wrong, but i doubt it. US had big problems with hitting the wall on having to actually have real money, and going bankrupt, I doubt anet would tie them selves to hard numbers they couldnt alter as needed.

sorudo.9054:

phys.7689:

sorudo.9054:

phys.7689:

sorudo.9054:

phys.7689:

snow.8097:

and in 6 months 1g is 1gem worth and anet gonna swim in Money because no one can buy the gem stuff with Gold anymore and pays real Money for new skins
longtime Mission completed anet

actually they get more money from gold to gems to store, if the system is actually direct.
Due to the taxes. remember in theory every gem sold is acounted for by some one who bought gems.
so if you buy it direct, you pay for the item, if you buy it with gold, someone else paid, and they took some tax out.

The whole point of the system is that they always get paid regardless.

actually the only one who payed are the ones who used real money, the gold->gem exchange gives them absolutely no profit whatsoever.
taxes are already done by the one who actually bought the gems, no player generates any tax on anything with the gold->gem exchange, not even on the gem->gold exchange.

Essentially GW2 is selling gold, or rather, allowing players to sell gold to other players.
If any one makes a gems->gold purchase they are giving anet money, so they can trade with players.

So there is a value for gold =gems.

Essentially people who trade gold to gems are employees for anet, they are workers who create a product of game rewards for people who want stuff faster and easier.

the tax essentially is like the players getting paid less for the same service, or buyers getting less product for the same money.

…..no real money, no profit……that’s it.

the real money is the money the gem seller spent in order to get gold. Created by another player.

Essentially other players are creating a gem store item that people who dont care about what they actually produce in the gem store can buy.

they pay these players in items the guy with the money wasnt interested in anyhow. but they pay them at a lower rate than they would normally get it the sold it themselves.

Essentially lets say GW2 owned a store, and people could buy anything in the store, or pay the owner 10 bucks to kiss any employee. Every dude who spends 10 bucks to kiss an employee, was more interested in kissing the employee than anything in the store. They then pay the employee 7 in store credit dollars for every purchase.

The owner is actually getting more value when an employee buys a 10 dollar item with store credit, because if the employee had just kissed the customer outside of the store, they would have gotten 10 dollars, and been able to buy something they wanted, instead of getting 7 dollars and having to kiss more people to get the 10 dollar item.

So essentially the owner is selling a new product, and getting more value for a product that wasnt selling anyway, once you also realize the in store items are infinite, and take up no space, its a real gain in value to do it this way.

again, no real money, no profit.
nice try tho

the real money is the money the guy who wanted gold paid anet. every single gemstore item that is sold is either making as much money as it says, or more in terms of how much real money the guy wanted gold gave to the gem buyer to buy an item.
in fact every item that a gold—→ gem buyer spends on the shop actually costed more money for the guy buying gold with his gems.

when some one buys an item for 800 gold(10 dollars) with gold, some dude probably paid closer to 13 dollars for that item to come into the game.
Unless the gem exchange is not doing its job right.

they are losing nothing, its a clever system. Essentially the people with a lot of money are buying items for other players, but paying more for them. either way, anet is getting paid for every product.

tolunart.2095:

Behellagh.1468:

As much as I agree with you tolunart, I disagree that the original seed of gems have been exhausted and we are only trading on player bought gems now. I would expect greater swings though the day if that was true.

I said “most likely” because I suspect this, but don’t know for sure. I guess I should follow my own advice once in a while:

tolunart.2095:

Keep in mind that thousands of transactions happen every hour, the gems/gold supply is in the billions, at least, and working with numbers like that is a little different than handling a few hundred or thousand.

I did ask JS once if he could give us some info about the amount of gold being traded to gems and vice versa on a daily basis, but he declined on the basis it would be extremely valuable information to gold sellers. (Understandable!)

However, I do know of a few cases where players purchased large amounts of gems (one guy traded in 20,000 gems!) and it didn’t even cause a wobble in the exchange rate. The amount of being traded must be extremely high indeed.