Guild Wars 2

Latorn.4209:

Legendaries are supposed to be the highest achievement a player can get, a culmination of all their hardwork, and yet it’s purchasable with actually money (regardless of how much)? Terrible decision in my opinion.

Regardless of whether or not it’s horizontal progression or vertical progression, buying legendaries off the TP is Pay2Win.

What are you winning if you purchase a Legendary off the TP? A fashion show? Don’t be ridiculous, anyone who would have the gold to afford a Legendary, most certainly earned it.

crewthief.8649:

Latorn.4209:

Legendaries are supposed to be the highest achievement a player can get, a culmination of all their hardwork, and yet it’s purchasable with actually money (regardless of how much)? Terrible decision in my opinion.

Regardless of whether or not it’s horizontal progression or vertical progression, buying legendaries off the TP is Pay2Win.

What are you winning if you purchase a Legendary off the TP? A fashion show? Don’t be ridiculous, anyone who would have the gold to afford a Legendary, most certainly earned it.

Um I dont think so. It means you payed money for gems or bought from goldsellers. Maybe they exploited and have 10000g in their account. Now some have earned that much legitimately I dont think that is a large %.
So no I dont think they earned it. Using money shows what exactly? It doesnt mean they were dedicated or skillful or finished some herculean task to obtain it. They used their CC. (Not all of course but I would wager a majority).

And what you are buying is a BIS weapon that will be perpetually bumped to BIS no mater what forever. I suggest you look at Lindsey Marshalls post. It will be a grind free upgrade no matter what content is released. That is a huge advantage alone and a must for any long term player.

Narkosys.5173:

crewthief.8649:

Latorn.4209:

Legendaries are supposed to be the highest achievement a player can get, a culmination of all their hardwork, and yet it’s purchasable with actually money (regardless of how much)? Terrible decision in my opinion.

Regardless of whether or not it’s horizontal progression or vertical progression, buying legendaries off the TP is Pay2Win.

What are you winning if you purchase a Legendary off the TP? A fashion show? Don’t be ridiculous, anyone who would have the gold to afford a Legendary, most certainly earned it.

Um I dont think so. It means you payed money for gems or bought from goldsellers. Maybe they exploited and have 10000g in their account. Now some have earned that much legitimately I dont think that is a large %.
So no I dont think they earned it. Using money shows what exactly? It doesnt mean they were dedicated or skillful or finished some herculean task to obtain it. They used their CC. (Not all of course but I would wager a majority).

And what you are buying is a BIS weapon that will be perpetually bumped to BIS no mater what forever. I suggest you look at Lindsey Marshalls post. It will be a grind free upgrade no matter what content is released. That is a huge advantage alone and a must for any long term player.

So if they bought gold through gems they didn’t earn it? You consider grinding in a videogame more work than actually working in the real world and earning a paycheck? Who are you to make that distinction? Get a job and come get back with me. Anyone who could afford to purchase that much gold with real world currency most certainly ‘earned it’, to be honest your opinion sounds very childish. It is an unbelievable time sink that some people cannot afford to indulge in.

AmagicalFishy

No, he has a problem with a person’s IRL income directly affecting their status in an in-game world. He has a problem with people having more immediate access to the aspects of a game he bought—not because of anything they did in game, but because they shelled out a bunch of cash. He has a problem with ANet advocating the dissolving of a separation between an in-game world and IRL economic differences.
I can go on and on, but I’m sure you get the point. It’s silly that people can just throw out a bunch of cash and get whatever they want. I’d be glad to explain more if you genuinely don’t understand the idea behind wanting to buy a game—and have equal access to that game that everyone else has, regardless of whether or not your personal income is more or less.

I think the childish part is seeming totally oblivious to why people dislike being able to trade IRL cash for in-game progress.

simple answer is the world revolves around money and you can sell just about anything.

except stuff like pears for some reason.

AmagicalFishy.6935:

AmagicalFishy

No, he has a problem with a person’s IRL income directly affecting their status in an in-game world. He has a problem with people having more immediate access to the aspects of a game he bought—not because of anything they did in game, but because they shelled out a bunch of cash.

I think the childish part is seeming totally oblivious to why people dislike being able to trade IRL cash for in-game progress.

This is an extension of the massive discussion on gw2guru when the gem<>gold exchange was announced. The intent of this exchange and certain gemstore items like xp/karma boosts was to enable casual players to “catch up” to players that had devoted more time, or had more free time, to play GW2. Of course, humans will be humans, and try to use this system to gain an advantage outside of this intended purpose.

The problem pointed out all those months ago was the fact that you will get players that “double dip” the system. Players that devote large amounts of time to the game, but also devote real cash in order to gain more wealth ingame. Everyone else can’t catch up to their buying power in the high-end market without doing the same. The entire high-end/super-rare market has the potential to end up solely in the hands of this “double dipping” group of players. I do understand that the high-end market by its very nature will always be controlled by the select few rich players, but the issue is whether real world money should be a factor in this.

Legendary weapons being tradable pushes this problem a long a bit farther because they aren’t just a random drop. Anyone can get a lucky random drop, and get a chunk of this wealth spread outside of the small group of rich players. But legendary weapons take a concentrated effort, and a lot other items to make. Other items that can have their own prices effected by the cost of legendary weapons. The materials used for these weapons are also used for exotic and ascended gear. Legendary weapons have enough effect on the economy by requiring these tradable items, having the end product as a profitable investment lays the foundation for further market playing/control and damage to the market of other items requiring the same materials.

If someone is offering to by Sunrise for 2500g, and I already have a large portion of the materials to make it, I can buy Dawn for 400g in order to fill this order. I don’t know the cost/profit numbers on this, but I’m sure if there is a profit to be made, someone will do it. What will this do to the demand/price of Dawn? Will the price of Sunrise rise along with its precursor, or will increased supply lower it’s price? What about the supply of exotic weapons being wasted in the Forge?

There is a near-endless stream of questions that could be asked. In the end, the entire economic situation comes down to what people choose to do. It’s not something purely scientific that we can predict, especially with a wild card like gem selling in the mix. A double-dipper could ‘spread’ their wealth by buying someone’s lucky precursor drop, but instantly regain that wealth by using their credit card. All we can really do is wait and see where this goes, but I don’t see the combination of real money trading and tradable legendaries as doing anything good for the game’s economy.

Soulbound items are silly, everything should be sellable.

Ask yourself why is botting wrong?

Not just for influence of the market, why is botting different (worse) from someone “manually” running in circles for 8 hours a day and farming?

What does botting have to do with legendaries? Time and fairness. As Runescape devs put it, botting disrespects the time “regular” players put in the game. And buying a legendary off the TP disrespects the time of players who have crafted it themselves. And with what it takes to make one, that’s a big deal.

If Arenanet is okay with selling legendaries they should be okay with botting.

Satakal.6971:

Ask yourself why is botting wrong?

Not just for influence of the market, why is botting different (worse) from someone “manually” running in circles for 8 hours a day and farming?

What does botting have to do with legendaries? Time and fairness. As Runescape devs put it, botting disrespects the time “regular” players put in the game. And buying a legendary off the TP disrespects the time of players who have crafted it themselves. And with what it takes to make one, that’s a big deal.

If Arenanet is okay with selling legendaries they should be okay with botting.

It’s not that simple of a comparison between the two, but you have a point. It can be the same thing, if the gold was obtained using real money. Some of the first legendary weapons crafted (just weeks after release) were the products of people spending large amounts of cash (thousands of dollars) to obtain the materials required to craft. This is a prime example of what you describe, and of the damage real money trading can do to the integrity of a game and its economy.

RMT would, and still does, exist without the dev-sanctioned gem trading. There will always be a section of the community that chooses this route, and a lot of this group is likely still choosing the illegitimate RMT methods because the rate of dollars-to-gold is better. We know these sites still exist, so someone must be buying from them. The gem trading system ingame is only providing a legitimate alternative, and encouragement, for players that would not buy gold otherwise. Third party, bot and theft driven, RMT will continue to be an issue for MMOs no matter what measures devs take to compete or offer legit alternatives. I’m not suggesting to give up and let them continue their business uncontested, but dropping to their level and trying to compete directly is not going to stop them or help the state of the game economy.

GW2 maintains a balance in this only because legendary weapons are no better stat-wise than fairly easy to obtain exotics. This balance might fail depending on how the addition of ascended weapons and future level 80+ weapons are handled. The only known aspect if these coming changes is that legendary weapons will have their stats increased so they are always equal in power to the highest rarity items.

AmagicalFishy.6935:

AmagicalFishy

No, he has a problem with a person’s IRL income directly affecting their status in an in-game world. He has a problem with people having more immediate access to the aspects of a game he bought—not because of anything they did in game, but because they shelled out a bunch of cash. He has a problem with ANet advocating the dissolving of a separation between an in-game world and IRL economic differences.
I can go on and on, but I’m sure you get the point. It’s silly that people can just throw out a bunch of cash and get whatever they want. I’d be glad to explain more if you genuinely don’t understand the idea behind wanting to buy a game—and have equal access to that game that everyone else has, regardless of whether or not your personal income is more or less.

I think the childish part is seeming totally oblivious to why people dislike being able to trade IRL cash for in-game progress.

Actually, you do have equal access…you’re just required to grind in the game for it. Honestly, at the end of the day, I am not NEARLY fortunate enough that I can buy that amount of gold with real life cash, but I won’t discriminate against those that are. Ultimately I have one option, grind it out…but that doesn’t mean I think that should be the ONLY option. Live and let live man.

Arena Net sells gold.

Are you really surprised that they are selling Legendaries?

Legendary weapons were implemented in poor fashion. They mean nothing and are a testament to how long you can spend flipping items on the TP.

Satakal.6971:

If Arenanet is okay with selling legendaries

Calae.1738:

Arena Net sells gold.
Are you really surprised that they are selling Legendaries?

You guys fail to realize that Anet doesn’t sell Legendaries. It’s us players who do.

And to put it simply, if you don’t like the fact that we have these for sale, don’t buy them. We aren’t forcing you to do anything against your free will.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Satakal.6971:

If Arenanet is okay with selling legendaries

Calae.1738:

Arena Net sells gold.
Are you really surprised that they are selling Legendaries?

You guys fail to realize that Anet doesn’t sell Legendaries. It’s us players who do.

And to put it simply, if you don’t like the fact that we have these for sale, don’t buy them. We aren’t forcing you to do anything against your free will.

It’s not that simple. It would be if legendaries had a completely unique set of crafting materials, but they do not. They share materials with exotic and ascended gear, so even if you don’t want a legendary weapon they still impact your gameplay. A great example of this would be the tier 6 fine material price increases when ascended gear was added. This had a huge impact on the cost of crafting exotic gear, even though no changes were made to the exotic tier.

mrstealth.6701:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Satakal.6971:

If Arenanet is okay with selling legendaries

Calae.1738:

Arena Net sells gold.
Are you really surprised that they are selling Legendaries?

You guys fail to realize that Anet doesn’t sell Legendaries. It’s us players who do.

And to put it simply, if you don’t like the fact that we have these for sale, don’t buy them. We aren’t forcing you to do anything against your free will.

It’s not that simple. It would be if legendaries had a completely unique set of crafting materials, but they do not. They share materials with exotic and ascended gear, so even if you don’t want a legendary weapon they still impact your gameplay. A great example of this would be the tier 6 fine material price increases when ascended gear was added. This had a huge impact on the cost of crafting exotic gear, even though no changes were made to the exotic tier.

But it has no impact on your gameplay to begin with. Exotic weapons are the same stats as Legendaries at the moment. If you’re picky like me, and you want it for looks, then you chose that path to take. And for costs, you can get Exotic weapons with similar stats via Badges or Tokens for cheaper.

So if you desire to craft specific gear that uses the T6 mats, the prices for those are determined by us players and the market demand. Then it becomes a choice between Cost, Appearance, and Functionality. If you want that Infinite Light for the look, it’s your choice. If you just want something high end, you have other options.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Satakal.6971:

If Arenanet is okay with selling legendaries

Calae.1738:

Arena Net sells gold.
Are you really surprised that they are selling Legendaries?

You guys fail to realize that Anet doesn’t sell Legendaries. It’s us players who do.

And to put it simply, if you don’t like the fact that we have these for sale, don’t buy them. We aren’t forcing you to do anything against your free will.

How do you know they’re not selling Legandaries?

It makes perfect sense to me. We might argue back and forth and question thier business practices but to me this is so obvious that a blind man could see it.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

But it has no impact on your gameplay to begin with. Exotic weapons are the same stats as Legendaries at the moment. If you’re picky like me, and you want it for looks, then you chose that path to take. And for costs, you can get Exotic weapons with similar stats via Badges or Tokens for cheaper.

So if you desire to craft specific gear that uses the T6 mats, the prices for those are determined by us players and the market demand. Then it becomes a choice between Cost, Appearance, and Functionality. If you want that Infinite Light for the look, it’s your choice. If you just want something high end, you have other options.

The impact it has on exotics is the market impact on the prices of materials, which effects everyone. Sure players set the prices, but those price are based on supply/demand, which every item requiring these materials is effecting. Every legendary item crafted means stacks of theT6 mats supply are used up. These mats are the primary means of getting exotic gear, so that tier is definitely effected.

The alternative methods for getting exotic gear are simply not as viable or accessible as crafting. Dungeons require over 1500 tokens for a set of armor and a single weapon set. That’s 23-25 runs through a dungeon that require you to have a party of 4 other players. Each dungeon also has only 3 stats available, so you are limited to the few that offer the desired stat. Not to mention that with the effort required, most will limit this even further to a style they like. Invader/WvW gear has a similar requirement for badges, but only offers a single stat choice, as well as an even more tedious/lengthy process of actually earning the badges. The easiest alternative to crafting would be the karma armor available from the shrines in Orr, but the limited stat selection is a still a major limitation here.

The simplest/fastest/easiest way to get exotic gear is through crafting. It offers the widest selection of stats, and requires no special activity outside of simply playing the game. There is no focus on a certain dungeon or wvw to earn tokens. Anything you do ingame is progress toward getting armor this way. Why should high-end vanity items and real money trading be able to have an impact on these “basic max” items?

In my opinion, legendary and ascended items are seperate tiers of gear and should have seperate tiers of materials to craft them. Exotic and ascended aren’t progessions before getting a legendary, they are speedbumps in the road that are slowing down getting that weapon. T6 fine materials are too rare to have 3 tiers of gear using them. Let exotics have their materials without higher tiers effecting prices. It even works the other way, with exotics taking up materials and working to drive the cost of legendaries higher. Stop the cycle and let each tier stand on its own.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Satakal.6971:

If Arenanet is okay with selling legendaries

You guys fail to realize that Anet doesn’t sell Legendaries. It’s us players who do.

And to put it simply, if you don’t like the fact that we have these for sale, don’t buy them. We aren’t forcing you to do anything against your free will.

Way to take a sentence out of context and miss the point of the post. It doesn’t matter who is selling legendaries, players, Anet, whoever, bit I will indulge you and clarify myself – If Arenanet is okay with players selling legendaries. Did that take so much effort to figure out?

I don’t want to repeat myself. I do want to say that I’m fine with purely wealth based items on the TP – Volcanus for 600 hundred million gold? Fine! Precursors even, fine. A legendary which is achievement based? No.

Satakal.6971:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Satakal.6971:

If Arenanet is okay with selling legendaries

You guys fail to realize that Anet doesn’t sell Legendaries. It’s us players who do.

And to put it simply, if you don’t like the fact that we have these for sale, don’t buy them. We aren’t forcing you to do anything against your free will.

Way to take a sentence out of context and miss the point of the post. It doesn’t matter who is selling legendaries, players, Anet, whoever, bit I will indulge you and clarify myself – If Arenanet is okay with players selling legendaries. Did that take so much effort to figure out?

I don’t want to repeat myself. I do want to say that I’m fine with purely wealth based items on the TP – Volcanus for 600 hundred million gold? Fine! Precursors even, fine. A legendary which is achievement based? No.

There’s an achievement for having a lot of Gold.
There’s an achievement for eating a lot of foods.
There’s an achievement for drinking a lot of drinks.

All the above can be purchased via Gem to Gold conversions. So does that make them not ok?

There’s an achievement for killing all the chickens in a Fractal map.

Is that ok, since you can’t buy it?

I’m glad you are ok with Anet allowing us to sell our items on the TP. But please don’t be mad that I decide to sell something (which took a lot of time and effort) for a profit. If you can’t afford to purchase my items, you can always try to get your own. I’m not twisting your arm to spend money on my stuff.

Everything in this game is available to all types of players. That’s what makes GW2 so great. If a Casual player only logs in 1 hour a day, he too can get a Legendary over time. There’s no requirement to purchase anything from the TP. There also isn’t a time frame to do so. Play at your own pace, and have fun.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

I’m glad you are ok with Anet allowing us to sell our items on the TP. But please don’t be mad that I decide to sell something (which took a lot of time and effort) for a profit. If you can’t afford to purchase my items, you can always try to get your own. I’m not twisting your arm to spend money on my stuff.

You’re still missing the point. One problem with the concept of legendaries being tradable is the fact that we were told pre-release that they were to be earned in-game and could not just be bought. The issue many of us in this thread have is that legendary weapons being available on the TP means that anyone can just buy it with cash, without even playing the game at all. Of course, you don’t buy it directly with cash, but cash is easily transferred into gems with a few clicks, then to gold with a few more. Someone could by a legendary weapon on their first character before they even got out of the tutorial instance, and all it takes is a credit card and a few minutes of their time.

mrstealth.6701:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

I’m glad you are ok with Anet allowing us to sell our items on the TP. But please don’t be mad that I decide to sell something (which took a lot of time and effort) for a profit. If you can’t afford to purchase my items, you can always try to get your own. I’m not twisting your arm to spend money on my stuff.

You’re still missing the point. One problem with the concept of legendaries being tradable is the fact that we were told pre-release that they were to be earned in-game and could not just be bought. The issue many of us in this thread have is that legendary weapons being available on the TP means that anyone can just buy it with cash, without even playing the game at all. Of course, you don’t buy it directly with cash, but cash is easily transferred into gems with a few clicks, then to gold with a few more. Someone could by a legendary weapon on their first character before they even got out of the tutorial instance, and all it takes is a credit card and a few minutes of their time.

I would like to add something to this as well.

The fact that a Legendary can be sold for money makes it worthless in my eyes. It is no longer worthy of its status; Legendary. It’s just a rare and expensive piece of jewelry. In a game world, this piece of jewelry is totally worthless.

Instead of showing to players around you that you’re a great and powerful warrior that has surmounted great challenges; you’re just gold buyer or a item farmer.

When I see someone with a Legendary weapon I feel sorry for them. Like someone on a wheelchair.

Calae.1738:

The fact that a Legendary can be sold for money makes it worthless in my eyes. It is no longer worthy of its status; Legendary. It’s just a rare and expensive piece of jewelry. In a game world, this piece of jewelry is totally worthless.

Instead of showing to players around you that you’re a great and powerful warrior that has surmounted great challenges; you’re just gold buyer or a item farmer.

This is how I see it. While gold buyers would still exist without the gem trading system (hard to find an MMO where 3rd party RMT doesn’t happen), a game developer condoning this, and even facilitating it, only works toward further cheapening items and accomplishments.

mrstealth.6701:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

I’m glad you are ok with Anet allowing us to sell our items on the TP. But please don’t be mad that I decide to sell something (which took a lot of time and effort) for a profit. If you can’t afford to purchase my items, you can always try to get your own. I’m not twisting your arm to spend money on my stuff.

You’re still missing the point. One problem with the concept of legendaries being tradable is the fact that we were told pre-release that they were to be earned in-game and could not just be bought. The issue many of us in this thread have is that legendary weapons being available on the TP means that anyone can just buy it with cash, without even playing the game at all. Of course, you don’t buy it directly with cash, but cash is easily transferred into gems with a few clicks, then to gold with a few more. Someone could by a legendary weapon on their first character before they even got out of the tutorial instance, and all it takes is a credit card and a few minutes of their time.

AREANET NEVER stated that Legendary weapons cant be bought on TP or Traded. Players are just making up stuff… Awesome

I dont understand why you complain here .. can you guys show me how much gold you have? 10 gold, 100 gold maybe? Because If I check TP, Legendaries are about 3000+ gold or higher, and like 0,001 player base have that amount of money to buy one, so why do you even care? Its not like every of your friends will buy one today … or in a year.

Legendary weapons doesnt mean they are obtained by some Legendary ‘’Lord of the rings’’ type of journey … THATS ONLY THE NAME OF TIER, they could just name them SUPER EXOTIC or whatever …

Legendary = ‘’Intensifier added to any word to take it’s meaning to its highest power imaginable.’’

Legendary weapon = highest/best looking weapon in the game.

Thats all what they are, best looking crafted weapons in-game. NOTHING ELSE

P.S.: Buying items in mmorpgs with cash is nothing new- How many thousands of players bough already maxxed out accounts with best equiped characters, items, etc.?!

So let someone with level 1 have his legendary. Its not like hes going to be 100x skilled than you … Or are you just jealous that he got it with irl money (which are harder to make btw)

Its all looks like jealousy to me .. ‘’I cant have my Legendary because I am not willing to to spend so much cash, so why he can?!’’

By the way … I already crafted The Juggernaut and now I am working on The Predator and I DONT care if they are on TP. How many of you, those who complain already have Legendaries ??

Legendaries should be reserved for players who accomplish legendary tasks. Tasks that are extremely challenging. Tasks that are bound by lore and guarded by creatures that chew you up like as if you were bubble gum.

In its current state; these items should be called jewelry. That’s all they really are. A shiney piece of metal. Guess what other types of species are attracted to shiney pieces of metal?

Fish.

Kacigarka.5176:

AREANET NEVER stated that Legendary weapons cant be bought on TP or Traded. Players are just making up stuff… Awesome

Actually, they did say this. I even brought this up on the previous page of this thread.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Y-YBsK17j6I
Go to the 7 minute mark in this video.

Just use some basic logic here. The gifts (and some of the other items) required to craft these weapons are account bound. It doesn’t make any sense for the end product to not be at least account bound.

You know, it’s not only Anet that’s the problem. It’s also the players that accept this. In any other MMO, buying a legendary is a BIG no no. Legendaries are legendary for a reason. They are supposed to be hard to get, and be a personal gain for the player. Have time and effort and an emotional value if you will. Will give you a sense of accomplishment because you got something that’s really hard to get. First off, the way you can get them now (farming your kitten off/lots of gold) is stupid. It should have been a series of very hard personal quests in a way. By each passing quest you get an upgrade and so forth until you get the legendary (of course there will be expensive items that you will need). Make it a fun/challenging process not just a grindfest. But that’s just my opinion.

What’s a fact is that being able to sell legendary items makes it lose value in the sense that you won’t feel so accomplished in obtaining it the “hard” way. It’s just going to become another wep skin on the TP. It’s stupid. Where’s the fun if you’re not being challenged anymore? Dungeons aren’t hard, personal quests/dynamic events arent hard. There’s no challenge. This was one of the very few things that were “challenging” in the game, and now some kid with a fat wallet can have it. The skins are ugly to me (minus the greatswords) so I prob wouldn’t have gotten them, but it’s just the way Anet is handling things….it’s really making this a kittenty game.

I also can’t believe that players are fine with this. It really boggles my mind that people are cool with just buying everything. Where’s the fun in just buying everything? What happened to working for your gear and items and achievements? Like I said before, it’s not even about the items it’s the concept. That line of thinking and philosophy is going to ruin the game. But whatever, I’ll probably just get flamed by the fanbois.

mrstealth.6701:

Kacigarka.5176:

AREANET NEVER stated that Legendary weapons cant be bought on TP or Traded. Players are just making up stuff… Awesome

Actually, they did say this. I even brought this up on the previous page of this thread.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Y-YBsK17j6I
Go to the 7 minute mark in this video.

Just use some basic logic here. The gifts (and some of the other items) required to craft these weapons are account bound. It doesn’t make any sense for the end product to not be at least account bound.

Sorry, you’re wrong. Eric Flannum never said Legendaries can’t be bought. Go listen to the video again. He mentioned that there were some components that can’t be bought. Nothing about the ability to sell the weapon later.

That said, if you’re so mad that we’re selling a Legendary, please don’t buy it. I think that would make you less mad at me if you just ignored the items completely. I don’t want to make enemies of people over jealously.

Why not? They’re hard to make, but if the person who goes through that effort would value the massive amount of coin he could earn from the sale, then more power to him. Really, if someone does a ton of WvW (and therefore has well more than 500 badges) and does constant event farming (and therefore would earn back the million karma within a year or less), then selling legendaries now would probably be a wise investment. If anything, the costs of producing them are likely to fall, not rise, and at some point other, cooler things will be coming out that will devalue them a bit.

Ohoni.6057:

Why not? They’re hard to make, but if the person who goes through that effort would value the massive amount of coin he could earn from the sale, then more power to him. Really, if someone does a ton of WvW (and therefore has well more than 500 badges) and does constant event farming (and therefore would earn back the million karma within a year or less), then selling legendaries now would probably be a wise investment. If anything, the costs of producing them are likely to fall, not rise, and at some point other, cooler things will be coming out that will devalue them a bit.

You speak pearls of wisdom.

Calae.1738:

Legendaries should be reserved for players who accomplish legendary tasks. Tasks that are extremely challenging. Tasks that are bound by lore and guarded by creatures that chew you up like as if you were bubble gum.

In its current state; these items should be called jewelry. That’s all they really are. A shiney piece of metal. Guess what other types of species are attracted to shiney pieces of metal?

Fish.

You’re myopic on this topic.

“Legendary” items are bought and sold in the real world.

What you think is not aligned with what people in the real world think when they sell off their wares…

Its ok, because it’s going to create such a godawful furor, its going to kitten off so many of the people who log into to adventure rather than day trade, that ANet may finally be forced to confront the possibility that their unrestricted market simulator with an attached fantasy-themed sweatshop/MMO may not be appealing to quite the gaming audience they were hoping to attract and retain.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

mrstealth.6701:

Kacigarka.5176:

AREANET NEVER stated that Legendary weapons cant be bought on TP or Traded. Players are just making up stuff… Awesome

Actually, they did say this. I even brought this up on the previous page of this thread.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Y-YBsK17j6I
Go to the 7 minute mark in this video.

Just use some basic logic here. The gifts (and some of the other items) required to craft these weapons are account bound. It doesn’t make any sense for the end product to not be at least account bound.

Sorry, you’re wrong. Eric Flannum never said Legendaries can’t be bought. Go listen to the video again. He mentioned that there were some components that can’t be bought. Nothing about the ability to sell the weapon later.

That said, if you’re so mad that we’re selling a Legendary, please don’t buy it. I think that would make you less mad at me if you just ignored the items completely. I don’t want to make enemies of people over jealously.

First off, I’m not mad or jealous over anything. So you can just stop even trying to go down that road. That will be more likely to get you labelled as a troll, than do anything to help the point you’re attempting to make.

And to quote the video I linked earlier, “Legendary weapons are basically weapons thats take…I’d guess you’d say…a really really specific large concerted effort from the user in order to get them”. He doesn’t say to craft them, he says to get them. While one could argue that acquiring a large amount of gold is a “large effort”, it’s not that would would be “concerted”, nor “specific”. You can attempt to start arguments over semantics, but anyone able to think logically should be able to see that a weapon they went to so much trouble to make sure you had to aquire the components for yourself, was probably not intended to be tradable. If it was intended to be traded, then the entire process of getting a pile of bound materials to craft it is just absurd and completely pointless.

If it was intended to be traded, then the entire process of getting a pile of bound materials to craft it is just absurd and completely pointless.

It’s a cost of making it. Someone needs to get all those materials onto a single character at one time. This makes it harder for anyone to achieve than if each component stack could be acquired by a different player.

I mean, if one player could “farm” World Completions because he liked leveling alts, and another could “farm” Badges of Honor because he loved WvW jumping puzzles and fighting, and another could “farm” karma because he spends all day working over Orr or something, and another does dungeon runs all day, every day, and each of those “gifts” were transferable, then between them they could make four or more legendaries far quicker and easier than any of them could do alone.

The current system ensures that a single player needs to be able to do ALL of those things. It just in no way requires that this particular single player is the one who owns the resulting weapon in the end.

Ohoni.6057:

The current system ensures that a single player needs to be able to do ALL of those things. It just in no way requires that this particular single player is the one who owns the resulting weapon in the end.

But doesn’t this defeat the purpose of this weapon being hard to get, instead of just being expensive? If the final product can simply be bought, why can’t the components? You do have a point, but the end result is the same either way…a legendary weapon you can acquire with nothing but gold.

I can think of a few other instances in GW2 where people combining bound/karma-purchased items in the Mystic Forge has resulted in bans. I do have to say that I do not support these bans, but the fact is that they happened. That sets a clear picture of Anet’s views on using the MF to convert bound items into profit. Everything about this just looks like a massive oversight, not how it was intended to work.

mrstealth.6701:

Ohoni.6057:

The current system ensures that a single player needs to be able to do ALL of those things. It just in no way requires that this particular single player is the one who owns the resulting weapon in the end.

But doesn’t this defeat the purpose of this weapon being hard to get, instead of just being expensive? If the final product can simply be bought, why can’t the components? You do have a point, but the end result is the same either way…a legendary weapon you can acquire with nothing but gold.

I can think of a few other instances in GW2 where people combining bound/karma-purchased items in the Mystic Forge has resulted in bans. I do have to say that I do not support these bans, but the fact is that they happened. That sets a clear picture of Anet’s views on using the MF to convert bound items into profit. Everything about this just looks like a massive oversight, not how it was intended to work.

Legendary Weapons are only bound AFTER you equip them. So if you decide to make one, and then later decide to sell it or give it away, that’s the player’s choice. If you equip it, it’s yours forever.

People are getting so mad that you can buy a Legendary weapon, making it seem as though it’s that easy. Tell me, how many Legendaries have you purchased? You must have many since they’ve become widely available.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Legendary Weapons are only bound AFTER you equip them. So if you decide to make one, and then later decide to sell it or give it away, that’s the player’s choice. If you equip it, it’s yours forever.

People are getting so mad that you can buy a Legendary weapon, making it seem as though it’s that easy. Tell me, how many Legendaries have you purchased? You must have many since they’ve become widely available.

I’m aware of this, and this is what I’m saying is the oversight. Given the nature of the crafting requirements, and statements made by Anet concerning Legendary weapons, it makes sense that they should be bound on acquire.

And they are, in fact, easy to obtain if you sell gems for gold. Earning the gold to buy one is an accomplishment itself, although I would consider grinding/trading your way to a pile of gold as less of one than the process of actually crafting a legendary weapon. However, using your credit card to get the gold just nullifies any accomplishment at all.

If you must know, I don’t have a legendary weapon yet. I will craft one at some point (my guess would be well before the end of the coming year), but current offerings don’t appeal to me enough to focus on rushing to get one.

And please feel free to stop accusing everyone that doesn’t agree with you of being mad/angry/etc. I would rather see this continue as a civil discussion instead of degrading into a troll war that gets closed. Inflammatory statements, such as your final one, are only conductive to the latter.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

mrstealth.6701:

Ohoni.6057:

The current system ensures that a single player needs to be able to do ALL of those things. It just in no way requires that this particular single player is the one who owns the resulting weapon in the end.

But doesn’t this defeat the purpose of this weapon being hard to get, instead of just being expensive? If the final product can simply be bought, why can’t the components? You do have a point, but the end result is the same either way…a legendary weapon you can acquire with nothing but gold.

I can think of a few other instances in GW2 where people combining bound/karma-purchased items in the Mystic Forge has resulted in bans. I do have to say that I do not support these bans, but the fact is that they happened. That sets a clear picture of Anet’s views on using the MF to convert bound items into profit. Everything about this just looks like a massive oversight, not how it was intended to work.

Legendary Weapons are only bound AFTER you equip them. So if you decide to make one, and then later decide to sell it or give it away, that’s the player’s choice. If you equip it, it’s yours forever.

People are getting so mad that you can buy a Legendary weapon, making it seem as though it’s that easy. Tell me, how many Legendaries have you purchased? You must have many since they’ve become widely available.

The only people you’ll be able to attract are fish. I agree that there are a lot of fools out there willing to part with thier money. No one here is angry at you. We’re just angry at Arenanet for reducing the value of Legendaries to something that someone can buy at the supermarket.

“Whoa… Where did you get that awesome sword oh great warrior?”

“I bought it at the supermarket, it was on special.”

But doesn’t this defeat the purpose of this weapon being hard to get, instead of just being expensive? If the final product can simply be bought, why can’t the components? You do have a point, but the end result is the same either way…a legendary weapon you can acquire with nothing but gold.

And again, why not? They’ve made the weapon difficult to CRAFT, that’s the goal and the current model achieves it. Making the components tradable would make the weapon easier to craft and would result in more Legendary weapons entering the game world, making them far more common, and therefore far cheaper. That you can sell them on the TP implies that they don’t have any problem with that, if you want to acquire yours through the expense of ludicrous amounts of gold rather than ludicrous amounts of varied tasks, then why not? It’s like complaining that they allow people to sell Oric crafted gear on the TP, rather than forcing them to level their own crafting skills up to 400, buying the karma recipes, and making them themselves.

I can think of a few other instances in GW2 where people combining bound/karma-purchased items in the Mystic Forge has resulted in bans. I do have to say that I do not support these bans, but the fact is that they happened. That sets a clear picture of Anet’s views on using the MF to convert bound items into profit. Everything about this just looks like a massive oversight, not how it was intended to work.

There is a story to that though. It doesn’t have anything to do with people figuring out ways to sell bound items. It has to do with people figuring out how to make easy gold. You used to be able to do all sorts of things with karma gear that you can’t today, but karma can come relatively cheaply compared to gold, and people found ways to purchase a stack of things with karma and then sell them off for gold and fairly easily make a massive amount of money. It was the lack of effort for return that caused ANet to put controls in place, and I don’t think anyone can say that the current method of crafting a legendary is not enough effort to entitle the seller to whatever gold he can get for it.

And they are, in fact, easy to obtain if you sell gems for gold.

The current sell price for a Twilight is 3000g. The current trade price is 1 USD in gems for 1g. That means that buying Twilight with cash money would cost $3000. If someone wants to contribute that much to ANet, more power to them, they’re paying the “monthly subs” for over 200 people and making the game a better place for all of us.

Calae.1738:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

mrstealth.6701:

Ohoni.6057:

The current system ensures that a single player needs to be able to do ALL of those things. It just in no way requires that this particular single player is the one who owns the resulting weapon in the end.

But doesn’t this defeat the purpose of this weapon being hard to get, instead of just being expensive? If the final product can simply be bought, why can’t the components? You do have a point, but the end result is the same either way…a legendary weapon you can acquire with nothing but gold.

I can think of a few other instances in GW2 where people combining bound/karma-purchased items in the Mystic Forge has resulted in bans. I do have to say that I do not support these bans, but the fact is that they happened. That sets a clear picture of Anet’s views on using the MF to convert bound items into profit. Everything about this just looks like a massive oversight, not how it was intended to work.

Legendary Weapons are only bound AFTER you equip them. So if you decide to make one, and then later decide to sell it or give it away, that’s the player’s choice. If you equip it, it’s yours forever.

People are getting so mad that you can buy a Legendary weapon, making it seem as though it’s that easy. Tell me, how many Legendaries have you purchased? You must have many since they’ve become widely available.

The only people you’ll be able to attract are fish. I agree that there are a lot of fools out there willing to part with thier money. No one here is angry at you. We’re just angry at Arenanet for reducing the value of Legendaries to something that someone can buy at the supermarket.

“Whoa… Where did you get that awesome sword oh great warrior?”

“I bought it at the supermarket, it was on special.”

“where did you get that priceless artifact?”
“I bought it on ebay.”

Ohoni.6057:

And again, why not? They’ve made the weapon difficult to CRAFT, that’s the goal and the current model achieves it. Making the components tradable would make the weapon easier to craft and would result in more Legendary weapons entering the game world, making them far more common, and therefore far cheaper. That you can sell them on the TP implies that they don’t have any problem with that, if you want to acquire yours through the expense of ludicrous amounts of gold rather than ludicrous amounts of varied tasks, then why not? It’s like complaining that they allow people to sell Oric crafted gear on the TP, rather than forcing them to level their own crafting skills up to 400, buying the karma recipes, and making them themselves.

It’s nothing like selling crafted gear, because crafted gear doesn’t take any bound items to make, other than the insignia recipes that are extremely cheap. Doing 2-3 dynamic events get you enough karma to buy one. Getting a crafting profession to 400 is also rather easy. In contrast, legendary weapons take many account bound items to craft, including several that are only acquired by completing specific tasks in the game. If ori, T6 fines, and other materials required to craft exotic gear were bound on acquire, then I would say those items should not be tradable either.

Even if the gift items to craft a legendary were tradable, it still takes the same amount of materials to craft the weapon. The easier to make gifts will be higher in supply from players trying to turn a faster profit on them, but the more difficult to obtain ones will still be lacking in supply. And if this does increase supply and lower the cost of a legendary, so what? They can already be bought for gold, which you can get by doing nothing more than spending hours standing at the Trade Post NPC.

I’m not saying these things should happen, I think it’s a terrible idea. Exotic gear is supposed to be accessible to everyone via multiple channels, and legendaries are supposed to require a “large concerted effort” to acquire. But as is, the accomplishment associated with legendary weapons is already gone, so why not?

edit:
In thinking about this whole situation…why can’t I sell dungeon gear, or cultural gear? I did the difficult part to get it, so by the same logic that legendaries are tradable, these weapons should be tradable. But they aren’t, because they were designed to be earned via ingame accomplishments, not bought. The same was supposed to be true for legendaries, but for whatever reason (I’m assuming this is a bug until officially stated otherwise) they ended up being tradable anyway.

“where did you get that priceless artifact?”
“I bought it on ebay.”

Worth noting that almost every RL priceless artifact currently in existence was, at some point, purchased for money.

It’s nothing like selling crafted gear, because crafted gear doesn’t take any bound items to make, other than the insignia recipes that are extremely cheap

So? What does that have to do with the price of Omnom Berries in Catha? My point was that getting a skillset to 400 is something that takes some player effort, and yet you can still take the fruits of that effort, the T6 crafted item, and sell it if you like. You aren’t forced to go through the effort of mastering that craft t own the resultant item.

Likewise, crafting a Legendary weapon requires a certain investment of time and effort, but owning one does not.

Look, I get it, you’d really like for Legendaries to not be purchasable, so you’re scrambling for any sort of flimsy logical justification as to why they shouldn’t be (beyond just your personal preference on the matter), but you should really just come to accept that they can be bought and sold if the players choose to do so.

In thinking about this whole situation…why can’t I sell dungeon gear, or cultural gear? I did the difficult part to get it, so by the same logic that legendaries are tradable, these weapons should be tradable.

Why not indeed? Now that’s a much better argument, you should run with that one instead, you’ll find a lot more support for it.

If I had to hazard a guess though I’d say it’s because they’re too easy to farm. I mean, if you could sell them on the TP, the price for, say, an AC Chest piece would likely stabilize around a few gold, tops. Probably around the middle of the existing Exotic gear, since you can farm for specific pieces at will. This would mean that tons of players would just buy the pieces they want rather than dungeon crawl, which is a desired activity from the dev’s perspective. Legendaries, on the other hand, require a lot more effort, but a lot less specific effort, so both the developers are not as incentivized to encourage players to do the activities needed for the Legendary (since they are non-specific anyways), and also the price is unlikely to ever fall bellow the “outrageous” level (at least until they make them easier to craft).

So basically, if you could buy AC armors on the TP, then the price would make buying them fairly trivial, while when they allow Legendaries on the market, their price is still fairly “epic,” and therefore not a big deal.

Ohoni.6057:

Look, I get it, you’d really like for Legendaries to not be purchasable, so you’re scrambling for any sort of flimsy logical justification as to why they shouldn’t be (beyond just your personal preference on the matter), but you should really just come to accept that they can be bought and sold if the players choose to do so.

I would hardly consider statements made by the developers, and the fact that other ingame items acquired by using bound items are themselves bound, as “flimsy logic”. There have been so many items listed on the TP that should not be there. From karma-only cooking ingredients, to items that don’t even exist ingame, but were left in the TP database. To my knowledge we have no official word on whether legendaries being tradable is intentional or not, but the only info/evidence/examples we do have point to them not being sellable.

In thinking about this whole situation…why can’t I sell dungeon gear, or cultural gear? I did the difficult part to get it, so by the same logic that legendaries are tradable, these weapons should be tradable.

Why not indeed? Now that’s a much better argument, you should run with that one instead, you’ll find a lot more support for it.

Rhetorical question…I was actually thinking the exact opposite. And I’m not interested in going with whatever side has a few more people supporting it, I’m sticking with what makes sense and with what we were previously told by developers.

I do have one question, though. Were they always able to be listed on the TP? We suddenly have buy orders popping up, but I’m fairly sure no one had bothered to place one till very recently. I would expect that there be at least a few ridiculously low buy orders listed since shortly after release. Perhaps I recall this incorrectly, but did searches for legendary weapons (by name) not return 0 results previously? This should at least give a listing of the item with 0 avaiable, right?

Edit:
I had missed the other similar thread in this forum (blame finding this one in an unrelated search) where there was an Anet response describing these as legitimate sales. But this information from the support liason still goes against previous information from game designers. The reaction of such a number of players to these items suddenly appearing for sale is an indication that we were given the impression that this was not supposed to happen. Other than owning one yourself, closely reading the tool-tip text of a linked weapon, or digging for data on a very incomplete wiki, what we were told months ago is the best source of info (or at least should be, if it was actually true) on the topic.

I’m hearing more about Legendaries are cheapened because you can buy one. Yet all the complainers can’t even buy one. I think they should all hold their arguments until they can actually afford to purchase one at the price someone’s willing to sell it for.

Now on to the “Gem to Gold” argument. Do realize that Anet has a limit on how many Gems one player can purchase? There’s a built in limit to reduce the damage a single person can inflict by doing creditcard fraud/chargebacks. So if you want to buy 300,000 Gems to convert to 3,000 raw Gold, you can’t do it all at the same time. It would probably take you months to purchase that many Gems, which you could argue is a Legendary feat itself. You’d be better off just playing the game, and making your own Legendary weapon.

So please, let’s all calm down here. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to more complaints.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Now on to the “Gem to Gold” argument. Do realize that Anet has a limit on how many Gems one player can purchase? There’s a built in limit to reduce the damage a single person can inflict by doing creditcard fraud/chargebacks. So if you want to buy 300,000 Gems to convert to 3,000 raw Gold, you can’t do it all at the same time. It would probably take you months to purchase that many Gems, which you could argue is a Legendary feat itself. You’d be better off just playing the game, and making your own Legendary weapon.

Out of curiosity, have they stated what the limit is? I know I heard about one person buying 100,000 gems in the name of researching legendary recipes, but I believe at least some of the gems were purchased during beta, and I have no idea what timeframe (if any) the purchase(s) was spread throughout.

The more damaging aspect to the economy would be the illegitimate gold selling market. We know it’s there, and we know it offers a lot better dollar-to-gold ratio. They are already effecting the crafting end of the legendary market by botting materials and pushing Anet to make changes to the loot/drop rates to combat them. Of course, this will happen whether or not legendaries can be bought gold, but having what Anet designed to be the most sought after items in the game available for gold gives more incentive to buy this “cheap gold”. This will likely end in an account termination (and the total loss of a legendary weapon that a legit buyer could have purchased), but people still do it.

Quick question…

How does zerging in Orr for two or three weeks and running WvW JPs qualify someone as worthy of a Legendary?

After answering that, one should come to the conclusion that the value of Legendaries have not changed since August. It’s peoples’ misconceptions of what a Legendary in GW2 is that are being changed.

This may mean that there is a much more fundamental problem regarding a Legendary. Perhaps some should direct their arguments toward that, instead blowing air around in this thread.

There have been so many items listed on the TP that should not be there. From karma-only cooking ingredients, to items that don’t even exist ingame, but were left in the TP database.

Yeah, but I don’t think those items actually exist, they just got glitched onto the TP listings. If Legendaries are not Account/Soulbound (and they are not) then there’s no reason you can’t list them. Anything you can’t list is typically account-bound.

I do have one question, though. Were they always able to be listed on the TP? We suddenly have buy orders popping up, but I’m fairly sure no one had bothered to place one till very recently. I would expect that there be at least a few ridiculously low buy orders listed since shortly after release. Perhaps I recall this incorrectly, but did searches for legendary weapons (by name) not return 0 results previously? This should at least give a listing of the item with 0 avaiable, right?

It’s possible nobody tried it yet, or perhaps items only show up for purchase orders if at least one has been made available for sale before, and people only just started putting them up.

But this information from the support liason still goes against previous information from game designers.

You say that, but it isn’t so. It goes against what you interpreted their prior statements to mean, which is different than it going against their exact words. I’m not saying your interpretation is an unreasonable one to take based on their statements, but it is unreasonable to continue to cling to them after they’ve clarified their intent.

The more damaging aspect to the economy would be the illegitimate gold selling market. We know it’s there, and we know it offers a lot better dollar-to-gold ratio. They are already effecting the crafting end of the legendary market by botting materials and pushing Anet to make changes to the loot/drop rates to combat them. Of course, this will happen whether or not legendaries can be bought gold, but having what Anet designed to be the most sought after items in the game available for gold gives more incentive to buy this “cheap gold”. This will likely end in an account termination (and the total loss of a legendary weapon that a legit buyer could have purchased), but people still do it.

Sure sure sure, but there will always be a market for gold, having legendaries available via gold will not significantly drive up the demand for gold. They can’t fight gold selling on the demand side, they have to fight the botting side, and they seem to be very serious about doing so. I certainly see less bots around than I used to, and their impact on the market seems much less significant.

How does zerging in Orr for two or three weeks and running WvW JPs qualify someone as worthy of a Legendary?

Because those are serious, worthwhile ways to spend one’s time. Making money is not. >: [

Ohoni.6057:

Yeah, but I don’t think those items actually exist, they just got glitched onto the TP listings. If Legendaries are not Account/Soulbound (and they are not) then there’s no reason you can’t list them. Anything you can’t list is typically account-bound.

Quite a few of the cooking ingredients were items that account bound when harvested or bought from karma vendors. Despite the fact that you could still right click them, have a “buy more”, and even create listings, they were never actually tradable. Right before legendary weapons took the top value list on the TP, it was full of ridiculous 600g+ offers for things like lemons and bananas. This appears to have been corrected now, as the context menu option is gone, and I can find no listings on the TP for them.

Chuo.4238:

It cheapens the accomplishment of crafting a legendary if someone with a lot of disposable real-life money can just buy gems, convert them, and buy the Legendary. Why would I want to spend all that time and effort to craft a Legendary?

From the day the first one appeared on the TP, I stopped wanting a Legendary. I won’t make one now, because anyone can just buy one with real money. Lame.

How does someone else buying a legendary lessen your accomplishment is crafting one? If I buy a Ferrari with money I earn through work and you win the lottery to buy a Ferrari does that decrease my accomplishment?

It does nothing of the sort, the accomplishment that you gain is exactly the same. How someone else achieves something has zero effect on your achievement.

Your complaint isn’t about accomplishment at all, it’s about being annoyed that someone else can get a legendary faster than you without grinding in game. Even if they choose to grind something else in real life

The current rate is 1.25 USD for 100 Gems… So for Sunrise currently I would have to shell out at least $2800.

Frankly if someone wants to hand over that kind of scratch for a weapon skin I say power to them. I think they’re a little crazy

Hendo.4671:

How does someone else buying a legendary lessen your accomplishment is crafting one? If I buy a Ferrari with money I earn through work and you win the lottery to buy a Ferrari does that decrease my accomplishment?

It does nothing of the sort, the accomplishment that you gain is exactly the same. How someone else achieves something has zero effect on your achievement.

Your complaint isn’t about accomplishment at all, it’s about being annoyed that someone else can get a legendary faster than you without grinding in game. Even if they choose to grind something else in real life

The current rate is 1.25 USD for 100 Gems… So for Sunrise currently I would have to shell out at least $2800.

Frankly if someone wants to hand over that kind of scratch for a weapon skin I say power to them. I think they’re a little crazy

I think it all boils down to jealousy. The person will be eternally jealous of your Ferrari until they can afford to get their own.

It’s because it is directly contrary to the point of legendary weapons. All that crap the devs said about respecting someone with a legendary is pointless. There is no way in PvE to distinguish yourself from an 15 year old with an insane allowance that buys a legendary from a GS. They should’ve been Account Bound from the start.

It’s not jealousy for me. It’s the fact that it undermines the whole process.