Guild Wars 2

It is absolutely ridiculous how people will undercut by sometimes over half the current amount. For example I am flipping some armor that was worth 1 silver to sell. I come back an hour later and the order of sales go from 1 silver then immediately to 47 copper, then people keep undercutting by 2 or 3 copper, all the way until now it is nearly 30 copper (Only 1/3 the original price and this only hurts the people selling it for so low, I mean sure it is annoying for me but I can just hold on to the armor and sell when it comes back up)

I just can not fathom why anybody needs to undercut by so much. If you would just undercut by a copper or two, your items would still sell faster than the items above you. And yes, this item was selling for 1 silver before and people were buying reliably.

Moral of the story and to educate you people out there the undercut by far too much, DO NOT UNDERCUT BY MORE THAN 1 COPPER, that is just a rule of thumb, even with higher value items. All you are trying to do is make your item appear first on the sale list.

I apologize if this has been posted before, I did not see one or at least see one posted super recently.

But if you don’t mind people undercutting you, why do you worry about it?

Also, it is not a rule of thumb as anyone is entitled to use the TP as they see fit.

If I need to get rid of stuff and don’t mind the loss I will undercut like a boss.

SandraSolace.7682:

But if you don’t mind people undercutting you, why do you worry about it?

Also, it is not a rule of thumb as anyone is entitled to use the TP as they see fit.

If I need to get rid of stuff and don’t mind the loss I will undercut like a boss.

You are free to undercut by that much, but it is not smart business. You should never cut the price in half. A 10% undercut should be enough even in the most serious situations, otherwise you are just wasting money you could be earning. Just like you shouldn’t sell an item for just 1 copper more than the vendor price (by doing this you lose money due to the posting fees and such)

And also a rule of thumb is “a principle with broad application, not meant to be used in every situation” so by that definition it could be called a rule of thumb, at least for actually wanting to make money.

I fully understand what you are saying and am fully aware of the 1 copper thing and so on.

But still if I want to undercut, take a loss, and even if it’s not smart it’s what I want to do.

So don’t worry about it, that’s all I’m saying.

mmmm you do know under cutting by a big margin, even with only a few items will drive the buy order price down.

I UC by a large amount for 2 reasons

1. to sell my item faster
2. to help drive prices down.

It doesnt matter if I lose 1-2s by doing that. What is 1-2s to me? nothing, But im hoping it helps drive prices down, to help the other people to get access to those goods.

Because historically it’s more in line with the going price.

See I sell lots of runes in the last few weeks and I’ve noticed something, and you can look at GuildWarsTrade or GW2Spidy to see it. In the wee early hours on the East Coast, prices of some runes shoot up. This is because there are a lot of older sale items that simply are never sold. Once all the the reasonably priced ones are gone, poof, price soars through the roof until someone posts one back in the range it traded earlier in the day.

Now if you simply undercut by a copper or two when the price is say, 6s50c when the “average” for the day was 5s12c, it’ll never sell. People will start putting ones up for sale at 5s50c and it’ll be undercut throughout the day and maybe by midnight it’ll be under 5s. Eventually those are bought up including any others unsold in the low 5s range and suddenly the price returns to that 6s50c. Rince and recycle.

I’m liquidating these items, don’t want to wait.

If you are undercut by a large margin you can buy out the undercuts provided there isnt like 100’s of them and still profit.

I do it quite regularly but only if i can be sure or profitting, if not i will sit on my items till they are at a more reasonable price.

I am talking about item i buy at 10c and sell for 6s, If 20 or so yet listed at 2s and under i just buy them out and stick them back on for 6s. If the price steadily drops i can still list at 30c and still profit.

Behellagh.1468:

Because historically it’s more in line with the going price.

See I sell lots of runes in the last few weeks and I’ve noticed something, and you can look at GuildWarsTrade or GW2Spidy to see it. In the wee early hours on the East Coast, prices of some runes shoot up. This is because there are a lot of older sale items that simply are never sold. Once all the the reasonably priced ones are gone, poof, price soars through the roof until someone posts one back in the range it traded earlier in the day.

Now if you simply undercut by a copper or two when the price is say, 6s50c when the “average” for the day was 5s12c, it’ll never sell. People will start putting ones up for sale at 5s50c and it’ll be undercut throughout the day and maybe by midnight it’ll be under 5s. Eventually those are bought up including any others unsold in the low 5s range and suddenly the price returns to that 6s50c. Rince and recycle.

I’m liquidating these items, don’t want to wait.

Yes and you can virtually bank on certain items to do the same thing over and over.

Buy mid week when buy prices hit bottom and you are almost assured that the come weekend you will be seeing the prices hit the top again, before it bottoms out again.

It caused me heart pulpations when i first started dabbling in playing the TP. LOL but you learn read it and go with the flow,

My only mistake I have ever made was piles of putrid essence, but that actually served as a lesson on how the market can be manipulated ( thank fully it wasnt an expensive one)

Because most players are not flipper. And they sure don’t care they loss 50 copper from over undercutting 1 item.

I get annoyed by the following kinds of people:

SandraSolace.7682:

But if you don’t mind people undercutting you, why do you worry about it?

Because he is curious and maybe wants to help less knowledgeable players learn how to make more money.

SandraSolace.7682:

Also, it is not a rule of thumb as anyone is entitled to use the TP as they see fit.

That’s why it’s called a “rule of thumb” and not a “rule” or “law”. Also knows as a “pro tip”. Rules of thumb are handy things that everyone benefits from. If you want to shoot yourself in the head, you are more than welcome to. It would probably rid the world of your ignorance. However, as a rule of thumb, shooting yourself in the head is bad.

SandraSolace.7682:

If I need to get rid of stuff and don’t mind the loss I will undercut like a boss.

If you need to get rid of stuff and don’t care about making max profit, you would merch the items. Why would you go through the effort of using the trading post, if you are not using it to make the profit you could? Bosses don’t make stupid decisions like putting out extra effort for less reward.

You can’t just “want to take a loss”. Nobody wants to take a loss without a reason. I’m driven completely insane by people that say things along the lines of “if I want to do something that is detrimental to myself, let me do it”. WHY??? You have a reason, you have to. People don’t hurt themselves for no reason. Even if you get pleasure out of making your life hard, you have a reason…the pleasure. So don’t go telling me you “just want to do it”. You’re full of dung.

There are many things you can do about people undercutting you by such high percentages…

1. buy them out and flip their item for additional profit.
2. place additional buy orders to close the margin for profit so people aren’t tempted to undercut and will just sell for even less than they would undercut you for so you can re-flip again.
3. don’t concern yourself over garbage markets of items that are cheap and large in quantity because you will ALWAYS be undercut.. period. by people who could give a kitten about maximizing profits and just want to get a fair chunk of money for their item and since they’re garbage items then everyone is going to have them and be trying to cram them on the tp.

Lesson here is, people are going to play the way they wanna play, and trade the way they wanna trade. If they’re more concerned about speed than money then that’s not their problem. The only person they’re hurting is the person being greedy and trying to keep their item at a higher price… they’re doing good getting cheaper items to the rest of the community

oh and for future reference… rule of thumb… by dictionary definition is.. “a method or procedure based on experience and common sense” … if their experience says that they will sell the item quicker with a bigger undercut (because greedy flippers will buy and just re-list) and common sense says people will be more apt to buy it at a lower price… so their “rule of thumb” would be to undercut to make a quick sale… your “rule of thumb” and anyone else’s rule of thumb will always differ because it’s based on experience and perception, and if someone doesn’t perceive something the same way you do then your rule of thumb may be just as stupid sounding to them as theirs does to you. Not everyone is greedy trying to squeeze every copper they can out of an item.

Curo.2483:

If you need to get rid of stuff and don’t care about making max profit, you would merch the items. Why would you go through the effort of using the trading post, if you are not using it to make the profit you could? Bosses don’t make stupid decisions like putting out extra effort for less reward.

You can’t just “want to take a loss”. Nobody wants to take a loss without a reason. I’m driven completely insane by people that say things along the lines of “if I want to do something that is detrimental to myself, let me do it”. WHY??? You have a reason, you have to. People don’t hurt themselves for no reason. Even if you get pleasure out of making your life hard, you have a reason…the pleasure. So don’t go telling me you “just want to do it”. You’re full of dung.

…Thanks for that. And no I am not full of dung. Why so disrespectful, I wasn’t…

How about not talking for me like you know why I do something.

You want reasons?? Here ya go.

If I’m running around playing and don’t wanna go back to find a merchant I use the TP.
I might not always get max but I manage a profit fit for me.
Specially when my infentory is full or when I run out of salvage kit’s. I always check the TP to see if something is worth more then when merched (if not I will merch later of salvage).
This happens mostly when I play toons that are not my main and the money gained on the TP will go to one of my mains later.
So yeah, I do have my reasons. Stop telling me (and others how to play/make money.

I undercut by a lot if I think the current price is too high.

Example you have several lvl 80 rare greatswords (ignoring berserker since that has a much higher value)

If the price is usually in the 33s range, but I come across some other random greatsword, like say, Krait Slayer at 40s, then obviously it’s not in the correct price range and undercutting by a few copper will make me waste my listing fee. So I undercut by 5s and bring it down to 35s.

Hey everyone,
I’ve been playing this game for several months now and this is the first time I’ve had to come and “complain/rant” about something on these forums. I was going to create a new thread but since its regarding the issue of undercutting, I decided to add it on to this one.

I completely disagree with the OP’s suggestion about a “rule of thumb” for undercutting. There should be no rule-of-thumb, because there should be no undercutting at all! Undercutting is leading to the inflation of prices in the TP and will eventually result in a collapse.

This is because as prices increase, new comers to the game will not have the funds necessary to even consider buying stuff from the TP. And once people stop buying the overly priced items, TP will become stagnant and eventually lose its usefulness.

This game was not designed to give people millions of gold. Quests, Dungeons, and even currency exchange with real world money doesn’t yield a lot of gold relative to other MMOs. New comers won’t be able to get rich fast enough to keep up with the quickly rising prices.

Lastly, I’ve dipped in and out of the flipping business. Each time I’ve tried it, it gets worse. As a principle, I’ve NEVER undercut. I look for the orders with the highest frequency, and use that as a price to place the buy order. But the rate of undercutting has become outright ridiculous and its to the point where you’re orders will basically never get filled unless you undercut. Which is now causing me to sincerely wonder whether Anet even cares about this issue or not.

I’ve been forbidding my self from undercutting because I wanted to maintain the economy of this game. I keep thinking that Anet will step in and place security measures on price inflation or set ceilings to the prices of certain objects, but so far I don’t see any effort from Anet in terms of controlling their game economy.

So this post is directed more towards the staff of Anet. I’d like to know if you would also meet me half way in maintaining the economy of your game. Or should I just simply begin to follow the crowd not giving a kitten about side effects in the long run.

Obviously, I won’t be playing this game for ever. Maybe another few months? But I don’t want THIS issue to be the cause of me leaving the game. Especially when I can see it coming and have shared my concern.

It’s all up to the players. If you wanna undercut by 1 Copper or 1 Silver, feel free to. But the smarter market players will always try to maximize profits. Plus, the TP is like PvP. It’s a competition between to business people trying to outdo each other. Winning by 1 Copper is a great feeling!

Obsidian Blade.8516:

Hey everyone,

I completely disagree with the OP’s suggestion about a “rule of thumb” for undercutting. There should be no rule-of-thumb, because there should be no undercutting at all! Undercutting is leading to the inflation of prices in the TP and will eventually result in a collapse.

I’m not sure if I’m misinterpreting what you were saying but I fail to see how making prices lower leads to inflation.. if anything people undercutting make it easier for people with less money to buy the items.

Magnus Steelgrave.6580:

Obsidian Blade.8516:

Hey everyone,

I completely disagree with the OP’s suggestion about a “rule of thumb” for undercutting. There should be no rule-of-thumb, because there should be no undercutting at all! Undercutting is leading to the inflation of prices in the TP and will eventually result in a collapse.

I’m not sure if I’m misinterpreting what you were saying but I fail to see how making prices lower leads to inflation.. if anything people undercutting make it easier for people with less money to buy the items.

I think he appears to be a little confused, that or he has confused me.

Most of what he says seems to apply to buy orders and not selling prices? It doesn’t make any sense

Rather than making a new thread about “the process of flipping” I said specifically that I want to add onto this because I do not wish to create a mess on these forums.

Secondly undercutting is the second part of flipping which occurs once you try to outsell the items you outbid your “opponents” to buy.

As several posters above me have mentioned, everyone is trying to maximise their profits.

It is simply common sense that if you pay more for an item (because you pay one more copper to outbid your opponent) you will eventually have to increase the price you have to sell it at just to be able to make a profit after subtracting the tax and listing fee.

If you still have trouble understanding this, try it out on GW2TP.net. Enter the prices of an item in the calculator, increase the price you buy an item at by one copper and you’ll see that your projected profit decreases (OBVIOUSLY!) therefore, to regain prior profit levels, you will eventually have to increase your price (OBVIOUSLY!).

Undercutting by one or two copper in the short run may seem like you’re helping the economy by lowering prices. But look at item price trends, and in the long run the trend of the prices is going up.

Once again, to simplify my comment and concern; You outbid your opponent by overpaying, you outsell your opponent by undercutting.

Lastly, my concern is directed more towards Anet. If they don’t seem to care about this issue, and a lot of other people don’t care about it either (or fail to foresee it), then why should a few be left behind and not catch a ride on the bandwagon.

From reading the above, I conclude that this applies purely to people who are buying items on the TP for cheap, and reselling it for a profit. The people who undercut by a significant margin (like me) are players who happened to get the item as a drop and just want a higher profit than what we’d get at the vendor. Therefore, it doesn’t matter to us how much we undercut, as long as we get something that’s higher than vendor price (after sales tax). By all means, buy our cheaper item to resell yourself if you wish. Just bear in mind that it’s in our long-term interest to drive prices down, not keep them at some equilibrium for flippers to profit from.

Large margins usually mean both buy and sell orders don’t really get filled. At the same time, as OP suggests, this gives an opportunity for flipping which 99% of players don’t participate in.

As such, to make the item sell, the gap has to be closed. By undercutting a good amount, a seller achieves two things. On one hand, the item actually sells, on the other hand, price gets corrected to non-flippable splits. That’s good for the entire playerbase.

From my experience, I got pretty annoyed at people’s constant undercutting. Instead of undercutting them back, I just switched to the buy orders vs merchant method, in which if I make more selling to an NPC merchant that’s where it goes, if I can make more from the TP’s highest buy order, I do it that way.

I’m here to play a game, not compete in sales like it’s some real world job – nor am i here to make people who actually find that fun miserable when I sell for half their price. Screw that noise, you know? I’d rather just open up a business where I craft people’s armor for the materials and a tip than deal with the TP on most occasions. They get armor, I don’t get screwed on material costs and 15% fees.

OwnUbyCake.7184:

It is absolutely ridiculous how people will undercut by sometimes over half the current amount. For example I am flipping some armor that was worth 1 silver to sell. I come back an hour later and the order of sales go from 1 silver then immediately to 47 copper, then people keep undercutting by 2 or 3 copper, all the way until now it is nearly 30 copper (Only 1/3 the original price and this only hurts the people selling it for so low, I mean sure it is annoying for me but I can just hold on to the armor and sell when it comes back up)

I just can not fathom why anybody needs to undercut by so much. If you would just undercut by a copper or two, your items would still sell faster than the items above you. And yes, this item was selling for 1 silver before and people were buying reliably.

Moral of the story and to educate you people out there the undercut by far too much, DO NOT UNDERCUT BY MORE THAN 1 COPPER, that is just a rule of thumb, even with higher value items. All you are trying to do is make your item appear first on the sale list.

I apologize if this has been posted before, I did not see one or at least see one posted super recently.

this is precisely why i undercut by a whole silver or 5 in expensive items 10 at most because i try sell 5-10 items and some funny guy(s) keeps trying to sell 170+ items and keeps undercutting by 1c