Guild Wars 2

Wanze.8410:

Duke Nukem.6783:

Wanze.8410:

Duke Nukem.6783:

Wanze.8410:

Duke Nukem.6783:

Obtena.7952:

Here is a reason: Waste of resources to implement a solution to a non-problem.

see comment 5 on my long post on this page (false inference).

and lets stop saying its not a problem, as you can see from thousands of posts throughout this section of the problem , many people DO find it to be a problem, and so it is a problem and thats a fact.

Your proposal is a false inference to begin with. Those thousands of people simply do not existand did not post in this section expressing their feeling to buy a more expensive listing.

haha no, they absolutly exist and people HAVE made threads on this before and people DO complain about it in game. stop trying to undermine the issue by saying it isnt an issue, its an issue to me and u need to respect that

I just checked all 4 pages in this topic and not a SINGLE poster, apart from you, agreed with you that its a good idea in general and thought that Anet should spend any resources on implementing it.
This might be an issue for you but if you think that the mayority of players wants to see this, you´re dillusional.

i see plenty of people on these 4 pages suggesting SOME kind of change, some are suggesting a minimum change required for undercutting instead but atleast they admit SOMETHING is wrong.

its also important to notice that this is the forum where the TP barons hang out not the common man. so the opinion we see here is unrepresentative of the majority of the game….but im sure some of the posters here would like to forget that =)

I already stated earlier that i would have no problem, if Anet implemented your change because it will have next to no effect towards my earnings on the TP because the mayority of players simply wont use it. So your arguement that the users in this forum are biased because they fear for their profits cantbe applied to me.
I just have a problem with you claiming that whole maps and thousands of people demand this change, while we have only seen evidence of your opinion and nobody else´s supporting your suggestion.
If you want to ingore the fact that Anet simply wont spend any ressources on implementing a change that has little to no effect on how the player base uses the TP, go ahead.

People who posted here and demanded changes to undecutting has nothing to do with your suggestion of letting people choose to buy at a higher price than the lowest listing.

if you are unbiased either way you are free to stop commenting and leave now

Unbiased does not equate apathy towards changes that have no impact.

Aidan Savage.2078:

Unbiased does not equate apathy towards changes that have no impact.

you have no buisness assuming this will have no impact, you do not have all the answers and should not speak with such certainty here.

Duke Nukem.6783:

Wanze.8410:

Duke Nukem.6783:

Wanze.8410:

Duke Nukem.6783:

Wanze.8410:

Duke Nukem.6783:

Obtena.7952:

Here is a reason: Waste of resources to implement a solution to a non-problem.

see comment 5 on my long post on this page (false inference).

and lets stop saying its not a problem, as you can see from thousands of posts throughout this section of the problem , many people DO find it to be a problem, and so it is a problem and thats a fact.

Your proposal is a false inference to begin with. Those thousands of people simply do not existand did not post in this section expressing their feeling to buy a more expensive listing.

haha no, they absolutly exist and people HAVE made threads on this before and people DO complain about it in game. stop trying to undermine the issue by saying it isnt an issue, its an issue to me and u need to respect that

I just checked all 4 pages in this topic and not a SINGLE poster, apart from you, agreed with you that its a good idea in general and thought that Anet should spend any resources on implementing it.
This might be an issue for you but if you think that the mayority of players wants to see this, you´re dillusional.

i see plenty of people on these 4 pages suggesting SOME kind of change, some are suggesting a minimum change required for undercutting instead but atleast they admit SOMETHING is wrong.

its also important to notice that this is the forum where the TP barons hang out not the common man. so the opinion we see here is unrepresentative of the majority of the game….but im sure some of the posters here would like to forget that =)

I already stated earlier that i would have no problem, if Anet implemented your change because it will have next to no effect towards my earnings on the TP because the mayority of players simply wont use it. So your arguement that the users in this forum are biased because they fear for their profits cantbe applied to me.
I just have a problem with you claiming that whole maps and thousands of people demand this change, while we have only seen evidence of your opinion and nobody else´s supporting your suggestion.
If you want to ingore the fact that Anet simply wont spend any ressources on implementing a change that has little to no effect on how the player base uses the TP, go ahead.

People who posted here and demanded changes to undecutting has nothing to do with your suggestion of letting people choose to buy at a higher price than the lowest listing.

if you are unbiased either way you are free to stop commenting and leave now

As i said, i dont want Anet to use their ressources to implement your suggestion, thats why i am staying.

Wanze.8410:

Duke Nukem.6783:

Wanze.8410:

Duke Nukem.6783:

Wanze.8410:

Duke Nukem.6783:

Wanze.8410:

Duke Nukem.6783:

Obtena.7952:

Here is a reason: Waste of resources to implement a solution to a non-problem.

see comment 5 on my long post on this page (false inference).

and lets stop saying its not a problem, as you can see from thousands of posts throughout this section of the problem , many people DO find it to be a problem, and so it is a problem and thats a fact.

Your proposal is a false inference to begin with. Those thousands of people simply do not existand did not post in this section expressing their feeling to buy a more expensive listing.

haha no, they absolutly exist and people HAVE made threads on this before and people DO complain about it in game. stop trying to undermine the issue by saying it isnt an issue, its an issue to me and u need to respect that

I just checked all 4 pages in this topic and not a SINGLE poster, apart from you, agreed with you that its a good idea in general and thought that Anet should spend any resources on implementing it.
This might be an issue for you but if you think that the mayority of players wants to see this, you´re dillusional.

i see plenty of people on these 4 pages suggesting SOME kind of change, some are suggesting a minimum change required for undercutting instead but atleast they admit SOMETHING is wrong.

its also important to notice that this is the forum where the TP barons hang out not the common man. so the opinion we see here is unrepresentative of the majority of the game….but im sure some of the posters here would like to forget that =)

I already stated earlier that i would have no problem, if Anet implemented your change because it will have next to no effect towards my earnings on the TP because the mayority of players simply wont use it. So your arguement that the users in this forum are biased because they fear for their profits cantbe applied to me.
I just have a problem with you claiming that whole maps and thousands of people demand this change, while we have only seen evidence of your opinion and nobody else´s supporting your suggestion.
If you want to ingore the fact that Anet simply wont spend any ressources on implementing a change that has little to no effect on how the player base uses the TP, go ahead.

People who posted here and demanded changes to undecutting has nothing to do with your suggestion of letting people choose to buy at a higher price than the lowest listing.

if you are unbiased either way you are free to stop commenting and leave now

As i said, i dont want Anet to use their ressources to implement your suggestion, thats why i am staying.

so with no understanding of the process anet has for delivering updates and UI interface changesa nd other minor fixes you assume this will cut down on your game content?

Duke Nukem.6783:

Aidan Savage.2078:

Unbiased does not equate apathy towards changes that have no impact.

you have no buisness assuming this will have no impact, you do not have all the answers and should not speak with such certainty here.

When an expert says these will have no impact, we’re not assuming. We know.

well with today’s update you can now effectively sell anything at any price that you want. Just list it at what you think is the proper price and it will sell to the highest buy order and the buyer will be refunded the difference.

This is a win win situation cause the OP can now sell at any price he deems correct and he can finally let this thread die, and everyone else can go back to not caring that much about undercutting in a free market

cbigsby.4098:

well with today’s update you can now effectively sell anything at any price that you want. Just list it at what you think is the proper price and it will sell to the highest buy order and the buyer will be refunded the difference.

This is a win win situation cause the OP can now sell at any price he deems correct and he can finally let this thread die, and everyone else can go back to not caring that much about undercutting in a free market

Actually, the OP wanted the power to decide which Buy Order to sell to. By selling an item at a price below what the current highest Buy Order is, he’s just selling it to the high offer, and the buyer is getting a refund. And when he does this, the buyer will get a super deal on an item, and can then flip it back on the TP for even more profit.

Duke Nukem.6783:

Wanze.8410:

Duke Nukem.6783:

Wanze.8410:

Duke Nukem.6783:

Wanze.8410:

Duke Nukem.6783:

Wanze.8410:

Duke Nukem.6783:

Obtena.7952:

Here is a reason: Waste of resources to implement a solution to a non-problem.

see comment 5 on my long post on this page (false inference).

and lets stop saying its not a problem, as you can see from thousands of posts throughout this section of the problem , many people DO find it to be a problem, and so it is a problem and thats a fact.

Your proposal is a false inference to begin with. Those thousands of people simply do not existand did not post in this section expressing their feeling to buy a more expensive listing.

haha no, they absolutly exist and people HAVE made threads on this before and people DO complain about it in game. stop trying to undermine the issue by saying it isnt an issue, its an issue to me and u need to respect that

I just checked all 4 pages in this topic and not a SINGLE poster, apart from you, agreed with you that its a good idea in general and thought that Anet should spend any resources on implementing it.
This might be an issue for you but if you think that the mayority of players wants to see this, you´re dillusional.

i see plenty of people on these 4 pages suggesting SOME kind of change, some are suggesting a minimum change required for undercutting instead but atleast they admit SOMETHING is wrong.

its also important to notice that this is the forum where the TP barons hang out not the common man. so the opinion we see here is unrepresentative of the majority of the game….but im sure some of the posters here would like to forget that =)

I already stated earlier that i would have no problem, if Anet implemented your change because it will have next to no effect towards my earnings on the TP because the mayority of players simply wont use it. So your arguement that the users in this forum are biased because they fear for their profits cantbe applied to me.
I just have a problem with you claiming that whole maps and thousands of people demand this change, while we have only seen evidence of your opinion and nobody else´s supporting your suggestion.
If you want to ingore the fact that Anet simply wont spend any ressources on implementing a change that has little to no effect on how the player base uses the TP, go ahead.

People who posted here and demanded changes to undecutting has nothing to do with your suggestion of letting people choose to buy at a higher price than the lowest listing.

if you are unbiased either way you are free to stop commenting and leave now

As i said, i dont want Anet to use their ressources to implement your suggestion, thats why i am staying.

so with no understanding of the process anet has for delivering updates and UI interface changesa nd other minor fixes you assume this will cut down on your game content?

I guess my understanding is as good as yours. And i think there are other minor changes that could be made to the TP UI that have a bigger positive impact for more players than your suggestion.

Duke Nukem.6783:

mtpelion.4562:

Duke Nukem.6783:

its also important to notice that this is the forum where the TP barons hang out not the common man. so the opinion we see here is unrepresentative of the majority of the game….but im sure some of the posters here would like to forget that =)

Is this supposed to be some kind of inverted appeal to authority? “Hey, don’t listen to these guys because they know what they are doing!”

“hey dont listen to these guys because they have their own hidden agenda”

This is so silly. You continually try to villainize veteran TP users, but no part of my hidden agenda ever involves UNDERCUTTING ANYONE, you would buy MORE of my evil manipulated orders by buying the listings I MANUALLY SET AT A HIGHER PRICE SO I PROFIT.

Good grief, I sincerely think you have no understanding of the entity you argue against.

It would be interesting to see if this was implemented, and if there were enough people who are tired with “1c undercutting”. Like others have suggested, I’d think prices would increase instead of decreasing. Buy orders would be set to “nice and round” numbers (e.g. 2.50, 10.00, 150.00 etc), because those orders would be filled faster, and would be cheaper than 2.49, 9.49 and 149.00.

Again, since there would be enough people who are happy to buy for 5.00, 20.00 and 250.00 instead of an arbitrary 229.49, we might see a slight upward shift on both sides of the price. Would everyone be happy then? No. We would see more threads, where players are bashing TP barons, greed of others, inflation and whatever else.

Even though this curiosity would be interesting, I don’t want to see limited resources spent on this change – not before TP UI is reworked.

Duke Nukem.6783:

“hey dont listen to these guys because they have their own hidden agenda”

What’s my agenda then, since you are so certain in your fallacy that you clearly have access to more knowledge of my own position than I do?

Aidan Savage.2078:

Rouven.7409:

I can live with that, which already sound a lot different than “if they (TP Barons) don’t see a problem, there isn’t one”.

Coming from another angle, would you agree that there are cases where “experts” are looking at problem purely from their point of expertise, ignoring the potential that the actual problem might not lie not within their field?

I’m not a TP baron, and I dont see a problem. And no matter what, if there’s a problem that exists, I would sooner trust those who know more about the subject matter to be able to see it than some random person off the street. Even an archaeologist can tell if an engine’s running wrong without being a mechanic as well.

I could now say: “I’m not a TP baron and I see a problem.”
A mechanic might not be able to tell if whatever fossil he picked up belonged there.

Just keep an open mind. It’s hard sometimes to read the same threads over and over again. I think it’s even harder on a forum with a really wonky search function.

The hardest for me is to read things from account names where I think “they are better than this”.

Just because others write nonsense like “the boogeyman has a hidden agenda”, that doesn’t mean one should answer in kind. I know my humour is off sometimes so I’m probably guilty of that as well.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

I’m open minded enough to admit when there’s a problem. However, the complainers currently have not proved any problems exist, beyond their own personal preferences are not being met. John has challenged each and every one of them to come forward with a compelling argument against the system. Since then, we’ve had none.

I do think that this is where the crux lies. John has also repeatedly said that sometimes the rules have to be bent to make it exiting, to make it fun. So the economy really has to serve two functions

a) run well and efficient (this is the technical aspect)
b) “be fun” to cut his short

Now I am pretty sure that b) is a technical aspect and science on it’s own, but other than John dropping a hint here and there of being able to, over the masses, sort of measure this – really this is what we are talking about – the personal preference of fun.

Only in order to discuss b) you also have to look at a).

Sometimes it reminds me of the sort of answer you typically get to new suggestions: They can’t do that because this software can’t handle that code. That would stress the system too much. They don’t have enough manpower to design this.

There also has to be room to let other ideas in, discuss them and not worry too much about if it’s feasible.

Argh, I think I’ve gone off topic enough.

@Astral, yes wrong thread

As a case in point, some time back I made a Titans’ Vengeance Axe, investing 30g into some materials. I see that the current top price is 95g with others at slightly higher prices. I go for a relatively conservative higher value of 100g and post it. For the next two weeks the price is undercut repeatedly until it’s dropped to 89g. The price volatility of this item is very low because of the low volumes available (Literally 1 unit at each price point) so it is quite a long time before the price climbs back up and my item eventually sells.

So by your reasoning, you would have bought my 100g offer over the undercutters (and yes many of them undercut by handfuls of copper) even though I undercut the seller ahead of me (although I undercut by about 1g)?

So for the sake of the argument, if the lowest price was set at 89g99s99c, would you then prefer the 90g offer? But what if that was 1c less than the next offer? and that was 1c less than the next? and so on. Where does the slope end?

The price of commodities are set by the market forces of supply and demand. Purchasing power lies with a buyer’s desire to obtain an item at a, what they consider to be, reasonable price. What one deems reasonable is unreasonable to another hence the option for players to post custom buy prices. When it comes to trading, economics does not care whether you find it despicable that someone is undercutting by 1c. It operates on the logic that a buyer will, at all times, purchase at the lowest price. Whether it suits their morals and scruples is entirely besides the point.

This is why so many people disagree with the OP. It’s not that there isn’t a problem. It’s that the problem s/he perceives is in fact the fundamental nature of the market economy itself.

There’s really nothing wrong with 1c undercutting and I’m always FAR more irritated by people undercutting by large amounts than I am by small amounts.

The only difference is that undercutting by large amounts can cause prices to crash, and since this is a discussion between sellers, that’s the last thing anyone should want.

There is no issue with undercutting, especially not with 1c undercutting, it’s how markets work. They don’t exist to service you personally, it is a competition.

Anyone trying to decide between undercutting me by 1c or 20s, please choose 1c, for the love of god.

Prices crashes would only occur if that market happens to be slow, and supply high. If I undercut by a large amount, it’s because I’m trying to entice people to buy it. In those markets I almost always refuse to sell to buy orders because that means I’m selling to people like wanze :P

And just to annoy you chalky, I’ll be the one person that undercuts by 20s1c to be extra irritating.

I highly doubt it would make hardly any difference if they implemented this. Why would some one pay more for something they can get for less?… even if it’s just 1c. The random one or two might buy it for more, but that’s not going to have much impact.

This would also add in the problem of people mistyping their amounts and getting ripped of.

I am very much against this.

Holy Mudder… is the OP still trying to talk everyone round to stop people undercutting his sales of copper ore.. gees.

OP you keep saying your solution will give players a choice.. I already have a choice.. I either buy at the price I find acceptable or I go farm some, and sell it on the TP for whatever price I want to.. if I decide to sell it for the same price as yours then that’s my choice, if however I want to put my item at the top of the pecking order then that’s my choice to.. it doesn’t matter what price I choose to beat yours by, whether it be 1c or 1gold less – that sir is market choice… you just have to put some big boy pants on and learn to deal with it.
Price undercutting is good for a healthy economy, it helps to keep demand for product healthy, it helps sellers sell products faster and potentially in repeat volumes, it help buyers save coin and it offers choice.

Bottom line is we all like to make sales and we all like to make money.. its up to the individual how they go about it.. undercutting by “X” amount or even risk buying everything up and selling for higher value… its a choice and no matter how much you whine about it , undercutting is a positive market element imo.

I don’t see any point in this discussion. Undercutting simply stabilizes the price between the buy and sale prices. Why would you discourage this natural price regulation?

Aidan Savage.2078:

Prices crashes would only occur if that market happens to be slow, and supply high. If I undercut by a large amount, it’s because I’m trying to entice people to buy it. In those markets I almost always refuse to sell to buy orders because that means I’m selling to people like wanze :P

And just to annoy you chalky, I’ll be the one person that undercuts by 20s1c to be extra irritating.

:O

But more seriously, on the topic of a price crash, imagine you’re trying to sell something for 2g and 5 people undercut you, then after a week you decide you want to relist your item. If they undercut you by 20s each, you now have to relist your item for 1g. If they undercut you by 1c, you relist your item for pretty much what you were going to sell it for in the first place.

That’s the point really – normally, a price crash would require high supply and low demand, but with irrational undercutting it simply requires any time based variance between supply and demand and it makes prices extremely unstable.

You see this sort of problem with mid value exotic items all the time. Prices will be pretty stable but will experience big crashes just because a few people will undercut by bizarre amounts, like undercutting by 1g on a 4g item. The market sorts itself out because the poorly priced items are snapped up pretty quickly, but it leads to instability which affects inexperienced vendors more than anyone else.

I have the prices for my corner of the market burned into my mind for the most part so I can spot a crashed price usually, but some poor sod is always going to get a 5g item drop for them, check the price during a crash and put it up for sale for 2g thinking it’s normal thanks to a few people irrationally undercutting.

Chalky.8540:

Aidan Savage.2078:

Prices crashes would only occur if that market happens to be slow, and supply high. If I undercut by a large amount, it’s because I’m trying to entice people to buy it. In those markets I almost always refuse to sell to buy orders because that means I’m selling to people like wanze :P

And just to annoy you chalky, I’ll be the one person that undercuts by 20s1c to be extra irritating.

:O

But more seriously, on the topic of a price crash, imagine you’re trying to sell something for 2g and 5 people undercut you, then after a week you decide you want to relist your item. If they undercut you by 20s each, you now have to relist your item for 1g. If they undercut you by 1c, you relist your item for pretty much what you were going to sell it for in the first place.

If it’s been a week, and your item has not sold, nor has theirs, clearly all 6 of you listed at the wrong price, regardless of what they undercut by. So it’s actually healthy that the price fell.

cbigsby.4098:

well with today’s update you can now effectively sell anything at any price that you want. Just list it at what you think is the proper price and it will sell to the highest buy order and the buyer will be refunded the difference.

This is a win win situation cause the OP can now sell at any price he deems correct and he can finally let this thread die, and everyone else can go back to not caring that much about undercutting in a free market

yea the patch has absolutly nothing to do with the topic of this thread, it has no impact at all and i have next to no opinion on it.

Duke Nukem.6783:

cbigsby.4098:

well with today’s update you can now effectively sell anything at any price that you want. Just list it at what you think is the proper price and it will sell to the highest buy order and the buyer will be refunded the difference.

This is a win win situation cause the OP can now sell at any price he deems correct and he can finally let this thread die, and everyone else can go back to not caring that much about undercutting in a free market

yea the patch has absolutly nothing to do with the topic of this thread, it has no impact at all and i have next to no opinion on it.

Thats because a patch that will implement your suggested changes will never go live.

Wanze.8410:

Duke Nukem.6783:

cbigsby.4098:

well with today’s update you can now effectively sell anything at any price that you want. Just list it at what you think is the proper price and it will sell to the highest buy order and the buyer will be refunded the difference.

This is a win win situation cause the OP can now sell at any price he deems correct and he can finally let this thread die, and everyone else can go back to not caring that much about undercutting in a free market

yea the patch has absolutly nothing to do with the topic of this thread, it has no impact at all and i have next to no opinion on it.

Thats because a patch that will implement your suggested changes will never go live.

your so sure of yourself but aslong as i have you to keep bumping this thread for me im sure it will get all the publicity it needs

Duke Nukem.6783:

Wanze.8410:

Duke Nukem.6783:

cbigsby.4098:

well with today’s update you can now effectively sell anything at any price that you want. Just list it at what you think is the proper price and it will sell to the highest buy order and the buyer will be refunded the difference.

This is a win win situation cause the OP can now sell at any price he deems correct and he can finally let this thread die, and everyone else can go back to not caring that much about undercutting in a free market

yea the patch has absolutly nothing to do with the topic of this thread, it has no impact at all and i have next to no opinion on it.

Thats because a patch that will implement your suggested changes will never go live.

your so sure of yourself but aslong as i have you to keep bumping this thread for me im sure it will get all the bad publicity it needs

Fixed.

Aidan Savage.2078:

Chalky.8540:

Aidan Savage.2078:

Prices crashes would only occur if that market happens to be slow, and supply high. If I undercut by a large amount, it’s because I’m trying to entice people to buy it. In those markets I almost always refuse to sell to buy orders because that means I’m selling to people like wanze :P

And just to annoy you chalky, I’ll be the one person that undercuts by 20s1c to be extra irritating.

:O

But more seriously, on the topic of a price crash, imagine you’re trying to sell something for 2g and 5 people undercut you, then after a week you decide you want to relist your item. If they undercut you by 20s each, you now have to relist your item for 1g. If they undercut you by 1c, you relist your item for pretty much what you were going to sell it for in the first place.

If it’s been a week, and your item has not sold, nor has theirs, clearly all 6 of you listed at the wrong price, regardless of what they undercut by. So it’s actually healthy that the price fell.

That’s completely relative to the item in question. You make 2 assumptions, both of which are wrong:

1) “In the particular week in question, demand matched or outstripped supply, so all items should have sold” – it is entirely possible that week to week, the ratio of supply and demand will vary, causing natural variations in stock and price. One week, 5 people sell and 1 person buys, the following week, 10 people buy and 1 person sells – this is a perfectly normal scenario for many items. Irrational undercutting simply exaggerates the instability in price that this causes.

2) “The reason people did not buy in the week in question was because of the price and had the price been lower all items would have been bought” This is incorrect for the vast majority of items. Pretty much the only time that pricing an item extremely low would cause it to sell when it otherwise would not is when a flipper picks it up because they know they can relist it at a much higher price for profit.

The fact is that for the majority of high value items, some weeks there won’t be enough buyers for all the items that come onto the market, and other weeks there will be more buyers than items. A long term oversupply will result in a price drop, but a single person listing their item at a bizarre price is completely unrelated to this. Not selling an item for one week has no relation to what the price “should be”, you need to look at the price over a much longer period of time to make judgements like that.

That is why I mentioned the fact that irrational undercutting hurts inexperienced sellers more than people who spend a lot of time buying and selling the item in question. An inexperienced seller will often not notice a price that has been crashed by a couple of people and will probably lose money as a direct result. An experienced seller will see this and either list their item at the normal price and wait a few weeks, or capitalise on the situation by buying up underpriced items.

You’re thinking too much chalky. If you’ve listed at 2g, and the 5 people undercutting you list at 1g80s, 1g60s, 1g40s, 1g20s, and 1g, if none of them, including the lowest offer, have sold within a week, you’re either in a very very slow market (slower than precursors), or all 6 of you listed at prices too high. The same holds true if the price was 1/10th of the example, or 1000 times the example.

Chalky.8540:

There’s really nothing wrong with 1c undercutting and I’m always FAR more irritated by people undercutting by large amounts than I am by small amounts.
Anyone trying to decide between undercutting me by 1c or 20s, please choose 1c, for the love of god.

in high velocity markets a large price drop like that will usually mean a corresponding spike in price is coming and your listing will be bought up

Duke Nukem.6783:

your so sure of yourself but aslong as i have you to keep bumping this thread for me im sure it will get all the publicity it needs

Realize that most of the bumps are to explain why this thread is a bad idea. Not sure if you were aware of this.

eithinan.9841:

Chalky.8540:

There’s really nothing wrong with 1c undercutting and I’m always FAR more irritated by people undercutting by large amounts than I am by small amounts.
Anyone trying to decide between undercutting me by 1c or 20s, please choose 1c, for the love of god.

in high velocity markets a large price drop like that will usually mean a corresponding spike in price is coming and your listing will be bought up

Yeah, I’m not saying it won’t be bought up, the issue is the price instability that this causes and the negative impact it has on inexperienced buyers. It happens to me multiple times a day every day and you either just wait it out or relist and take a bit of a hit for the sake of liquidity, but people doing this sort of undercutting for any reason besides genuine error have a very poor understanding of what effect it has.

Chalky.8540:

eithinan.9841:

Chalky.8540:

There’s really nothing wrong with 1c undercutting and I’m always FAR more irritated by people undercutting by large amounts than I am by small amounts.
Anyone trying to decide between undercutting me by 1c or 20s, please choose 1c, for the love of god.

in high velocity markets a large price drop like that will usually mean a corresponding spike in price is coming and your listing will be bought up

Yeah, I’m not saying it won’t be bought up, the issue is the price instability that this causes and the negative impact it has on inexperienced buyers. It happens to me multiple times a day every day and you either just wait it out or relist and take a bit of a hit for the sake of liquidity, but people doing this sort of undercutting for any reason besides genuine error have a very poor understanding of what effect it has.

I think they know exactly what they are doing. They are saying to you “get out of my market” and they hope the effect is you find another.

eithinan.9841:

Chalky.8540:

eithinan.9841:

Chalky.8540:

There’s really nothing wrong with 1c undercutting and I’m always FAR more irritated by people undercutting by large amounts than I am by small amounts.
Anyone trying to decide between undercutting me by 1c or 20s, please choose 1c, for the love of god.

in high velocity markets a large price drop like that will usually mean a corresponding spike in price is coming and your listing will be bought up

Yeah, I’m not saying it won’t be bought up, the issue is the price instability that this causes and the negative impact it has on inexperienced buyers. It happens to me multiple times a day every day and you either just wait it out or relist and take a bit of a hit for the sake of liquidity, but people doing this sort of undercutting for any reason besides genuine error have a very poor understanding of what effect it has.

I think they know exactly what they are doing. They are saying to you “get out of my market” and they hope the effect is you find another.

I’m not too sure what you mean. How is someone listing a single item for significantly under the current price going convince anyone from leaving that corner of the market?

I mean… half the time that this happens, most of the sellers probably don’t even notice because someone buys the underpriced item and the only differences is that the guy who listed it lost 50s or whatever. If they do notice, and have actually picked this market to sell in for profit, they’ll obviously realise that it’s just one item that’s underpriced. They might even buy it to flip themselves.

If someone actually thinks this is what they’re doing then it’s even weirder than I thought.

High value items will almost always go through very slow movements of stock even when under cut.

For instance, I took a punt and invested some G into making an exotic Azurite amulet and popped it up for 39g50 making it the next lowest asking price. Over the course of a few weeks undercutting has pulled that price to around 31g. So I have three options.
1. Pull my listing and relist at a lower price accepting my loss and that my punt hadn’t worked out for this one.
2. Sitting tight and wait for stock at the lowest price to move so that the price goes back up. This is coupled with the fact that azurite orbs cannot be upgraded from azurite crystals, and given how rarely orbs drop the supply is very limited.
3. Invest again, depending on the price of orbs, and make another amulet to sell at a middling price between the lowest price and my current price so that when they both sell, I’ll make an even healthier profit?

Regardless of which option I choose, do I bemoan that the people before have been unsocial and undercut me? Of course not, like every one else in the game, I’m a seller and all sellers know and understand that the buyer will aim for the lowest price they’re willing to pay. There’s nothing unsocial about undercutting. It may mean that one player gets their sale off earlier than the other, but in the end as long as the item sells what does it matter?

Aidan Savage.2078:

You’re thinking too much chalky. If you’ve listed at 2g, and the 5 people undercutting you list at 1g80s, 1g60s, 1g40s, 1g20s, and 1g, if none of them, including the lowest offer, have sold within a week, you’re either in a very very slow market (slower than precursors), or all 6 of you listed at prices too high. The same holds true if the price was 1/10th of the example, or 1000 times the example.

you cannot say they are listing too high maybe the sellers are listing for too low as is frequently the case in markets for weapon skins. telling them they listed for too high implies they should have known in advance what is going to happen, its like telling someone who got hit by a car “you were in the wrong place” really? even if they were on the sidewalk? in just hte same way dropping your price by a reasonable amount is like bieng on the sidewalk, noone can fault you for that, the problem is our economy driven totally by auctions

I dont mean to look super-wise or anything, but I’d suggest to move a few steps back from this exact issue.

What is undercutting? Its ‘a tool to make money’ could be one definition. Is it the only tool by which people make money on the TP? No. Its the most obvious, but not the only one. And whats the problem with it? Many feel that if others use this tool, it prevents them from making money or lowers their profits. But there are many other ways to make money on the TP. If you want to prevent people from using the 1c undercut routine, then – along the same lines – you should implement other regulation to prevent hoarding, flipping, placing buy orders, etc. too. Just because those other tools are not so obvious, they still have their effects on the economy.

Second thing is, if you introduce a new system, it will have different kind of ‘flaws’ (or rather tricks). Which will be used by the smarter part of the gw2 community again – putting the average Joe in disadvantage.

When it comes to fracs or high-end tpvp, no1 complains that ‘I should be up there with the greatest’. Or ‘you should let me do this lvl 46 frac with you guys, even though I only have green armor and have no clue about the fights’. Still when it comes to using the TP, everyone – regardless of knowledge and invested effort – demands the same trading potential as the hardcore traders. And then comes the argument ‘But they make 50-200g a day and they spend hours @ TP. I just drop in, list my stuff in 2 minutes and only want to make a few gold.’ Its the same as saying ‘I dont pvp a lot, just a few minutes a day. But in that five minutes I want to have the same potential as … (your favourite player’s name).

Imho ‘fixing’ this undercutting issue would not solve a thing. If you dont invest money, dont do your homework, and dont spend time @ the TP; you wont make a lot of money. Simple as that. In every other area of the game, its quite obvious to people and they dont complain (that much —> ‘nerf thiefz asap’ ). I just dont get it, why it bothers peeps when it comes to the TP.

Nimrud.5642:

I dont mean to look super-wise or anything, but I’d suggest to move a few steps back from this exact issue.

What is undercutting? Its ‘a tool to make money’ could be one definition. Is it the only tool by which people make money on the TP? No. Its the most obvious, but not the only one. And whats the problem with it? Many feel that if others use this tool, it prevents them from making money or lowers their profits. But there are many other ways to make money on the TP. If you want to prevent people from using the 1c undercut routine, then – along the same lines – you should implement other regulation to prevent hoarding, flipping, placing buy orders, etc. too. Just because those other tools are not so obvious, they still have their effects on the economy.

Second thing is, if you introduce a new system, it will have different kind of ‘flaws’ (or rather tricks). Which will be used by the smarter part of the gw2 community again – putting the average Joe in disadvantage.

When it comes to fracs or high-end tpvp, no1 complains that ‘I should be up there with the greatest’. Or ‘you should let me do this lvl 46 frac with you guys, even though I only have green armor and have no clue about the fights’. Still when it comes to using the TP, everyone – regardless of knowledge and invested effort – demands the same trading potential as the hardcore traders. And then comes the argument ‘But they make 50-200g a day and they spend hours @ TP. I just drop in, list my stuff in 2 minutes and only want to make a few gold.’ Its the same as saying ‘I dont pvp a lot, just a few minutes a day. But in that five minutes I want to have the same potential as … (your favourite player’s name).

Imho ‘fixing’ this undercutting issue would not solve a thing. If you dont invest money, dont do your homework, and dont spend time @ the TP; you wont make a lot of money. Simple as that. In every other area of the game, its quite obvious to people and they dont complain (that much —> ‘nerf thiefz asap’ ). I just dont get it, why it bothers peeps when it comes to the TP.

per your first point i dont think simplifying it to say that all money making methods are related and should be attacked because other methods are flawed is very logical. hoarding i like because it implies that an item is valuable and prestigious rather than everything being the same and that will be the death of gw2 just like it was gw1, every item did the same thing who cares if its a slightly different shade of green i cant make any unique use of it. so prices collapsed into standing in kamadan and shouting what u wanted which was always too much because the consumer didnt really want the item THAT much anyways…..which was too bad. so going after those other methods is pointless not only because they arnt as related as you say but also because those other ones arnt having the same effects

second point is irrelivent because we arnt introducing a new system we are making one tiny change to the turrent system, a change so small it doesnt even prevent undercutting just provides a bit of a choice in the matter for the buyer. if you think someone is going to find away around choice i would be suprised, but doing nothing just because “it probaly isnt perfect anyways” is not a solution (imperfect solution fallacy)

the rest of your post goes on to compare undercutters as some kind of skilled and talented TP player, i dont aggree anyone can do it and most do it without thought or hesitation because it has no consequences, atleast in the short term. what it does do is make cheap items cheaper and keep expensive items expensive. i saw an undercut on an aetherized pistol skin yesterday for 420g to 419 99 99, who is that helping? nobody, and the person who listed it is just a jerk not a skilled market tactician, a jerk.

why don’t you just listed your stuff say 10% below the lowest sell order yourself.

I usually have no problem selling my items if I did that. Most people are patient, so they won’t bother undercut me more.

laokoko.7403:

why don’t you just listed your stuff say 10% below the lowest sell order yourself.

I usually have no problem selling my items if I did that. Most people are patient, so they won’t bother undercut me more.

Don’t know if it’s patience or that they figure it’ll be snapped up soon enough so why follow it down.

Duke Nukem.6783:

…the person who listed it is just a jerk not a skilled market tactician, a jerk.

Haters will hate…

I’m still failing to see how it is different than any other leagal money making practice. FYI: if you observe the daily price-fluctuation of the items you intend to sell, and you list it a few percent below the expected daily high – with the right timing – you will sell it 100% of the time. And the whole undercutting issue becomes irrelevant. See? If you list it at 4am, go to sleep and are mad the next day that you’ve been undercut… thats not the fault of the guy who undecut you. Nor is it the system’s fault. You just made a bad decision, and now blame it on the ‘undercutting jerks’.

You still havent done your homework, yet you educate others. And yes, making money @ TP takes a ‘skilled and talented TP player’. It requires research, dedication, effort, time, etc. If you want to make sure you sell your stuff and no1 undercuts you, try visiting an in-game vendor. They always have a fixed price…

Behellagh.1468:

laokoko.7403:

why don’t you just listed your stuff say 10% below the lowest sell order yourself.

I usually have no problem selling my items if I did that. Most people are patient, so they won’t bother undercut me more.

Don’t know if it’s patience or that they figure it’ll be snapped up soon enough so why follow it down.

That is exactly what I’m saying. If you don’t want other people to undercut you by 1 copper, stop undercutting other people by 1 copper.

I don’t get the problem. For higher value items, they sell slow, always. Often in days. But if you price it right, it will eventually sell. What would be sold in days will still be sold in days even if someone undercut you.

For low value items, they moves fast, people undercut frequently. But a copper in such case could worth 10% profit. If people choose to earn less, it’s their choice.

If there are many people undercut the item, pushing you back and back and never able to sell, that indicates a large supply. Price drop is inevitable in this case. And your sale order simply became overpriced.

Afya.5842:

I don’t get the problem. For higher value items, they sell slow, always. Often in days. But if you price it right, it will eventually sell. What would be sold in days will still be sold in days even if someone undercut you.

For low value items, they moves fast, people undercut frequently. But a copper in such case could worth 10% profit. If people choose to earn less, it’s their choice.

If there are many people undercut the item, pushing you back and back and never able to sell, that indicates a large supply. Price drop is inevitable in this case. And your sale order simply became overpriced.

lets get back on track from people’s market advice to the actual issue at hand, i dont care how prices move faster or slower i just want to be able to pick from which seller i buy from, even if i pick the one that is more expensive that should be my choice

So you want individual listings by player selling? So you can boycott players you don’t like? Why not display their net worth while we are at it so you can choose only to buy from “mom and pop” TP vendors rather than the Rockefellers or Morgans.

Duke Nukem.6783:

Afya.5842:

I don’t get the problem. For higher value items, they sell slow, always. Often in days. But if you price it right, it will eventually sell. What would be sold in days will still be sold in days even if someone undercut you.

For low value items, they moves fast, people undercut frequently. But a copper in such case could worth 10% profit. If people choose to earn less, it’s their choice.

If there are many people undercut the item, pushing you back and back and never able to sell, that indicates a large supply. Price drop is inevitable in this case. And your sale order simply became overpriced.

lets get back on track from people’s market advice to the actual issue at hand, i dont care how prices move faster or slower i just want to be able to pick from which seller i buy from, even if i pick the one that is more expensive that should be my choice

So you just want to do ‘harm’ to those nasty 1c undercutters? This issue definitely needs to be examined by the devs. The more you try to back your point the more ridiculous it gets. Im sorry if this is offensive to you, but you should have realized a long time ago that you are beating a dead horse. Do business only with vendor npcs, thats all I can suggest.

Duke Nukem.6783:

Afya.5842:

I don’t get the problem. For higher value items, they sell slow, always. Often in days. But if you price it right, it will eventually sell. What would be sold in days will still be sold in days even if someone undercut you.

For low value items, they moves fast, people undercut frequently. But a copper in such case could worth 10% profit. If people choose to earn less, it’s their choice.

If there are many people undercut the item, pushing you back and back and never able to sell, that indicates a large supply. Price drop is inevitable in this case. And your sale order simply became overpriced.

lets get back on track from people’s market advice to the actual issue at hand, i dont care how prices move faster or slower i just want to be able to pick from which seller i buy from, even if i pick the one that is more expensive that should be my choice

If you want to get back on track, that means this thread is officially dead. Anet will never make it so that you can see who is selling what item. If you have a preference on who you want to buy items from, feel free to add them to your Friend’s List, and do trades via mail if you trust them enough.

Behellagh.1468:

So you want individual listings by player selling? So you can boycott players you don’t like? Why not display their net worth while we are at it so you can choose only to buy from “mom and pop” TP vendors rather than the Rockefellers or Morgans.

you made a HUGE logic leap there….yes i want to boycott players who undercut by 1c on expensive items, no i dont care what their personal total wealth is and i would not boycott someone on that anyways…but if i did want that i see nothing wrong with it, lots of people boycott wal-mart in favor of mom and pop and rightfully so, the big guy has a tendency to step on the little guy a bit too often

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Duke Nukem.6783:

Afya.5842:

I don’t get the problem. For higher value items, they sell slow, always. Often in days. But if you price it right, it will eventually sell. What would be sold in days will still be sold in days even if someone undercut you.

For low value items, they moves fast, people undercut frequently. But a copper in such case could worth 10% profit. If people choose to earn less, it’s their choice.

If there are many people undercut the item, pushing you back and back and never able to sell, that indicates a large supply. Price drop is inevitable in this case. And your sale order simply became overpriced.

lets get back on track from people’s market advice to the actual issue at hand, i dont care how prices move faster or slower i just want to be able to pick from which seller i buy from, even if i pick the one that is more expensive that should be my choice

If you want to get back on track, that means this thread is officially dead. Anet will never make it so that you can see who is selling what item. If you have a preference on who you want to buy items from, feel free to add them to your Friend’s List, and do trades via mail if you trust them enough.

i feel u are willfullly misunderstanding me at this point to derail the conversation, i never asked to see who was selling, only pick which one i want to buy based on the prices listed

Duke Nukem.6783:

i feel u are willfullly misunderstanding me at this point to derail the conversation, i never asked to see who was selling, only pick which one i want to buy based on the prices listed

Here’s your quote of where you said you wanted to pick which seller to buy from.

Duke Nukem.6783:

i just want to be able to pick from which seller i buy from, even if i pick the one that is more expensive that should be my choice

I was thinking about this logic being applied here … OP doesn’t want to buy from an undercutter …. but if you look, everyone is undercutting with the exception of the guy at the highest selling price ….

Isn’kitten tad hypocritical to say you don’t want to buy from the lowest seller because of undercutting, but you don’t have any problem buying from everyone else undercutting the highest seller. Not really adding up here. Well, at least the OP isn’t pushing his agenda as a logical one.