Guild Wars 2

so..

i really hope some dev will have a look into this and understand what they did to this game

thread: http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/1knvpm/how_much_gold_has_the_richest_player_and_how_much/

kill: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdyiirhF98A&feature=youtu.be

overkill: http://i.imgur.com/uM6xBL6.png

This is the proof that some (can) control of market – and this is in fact something that can destroy the game for others. gj

1. You have not substantiated your claim that the market has been or can be controlled.

2. You have not substantiated your claim that the game is being destroyed for other players.

What you have done is proved that you are incredibly jealous of the virtual wealth of others.

Another guildie of mine also has 250,00g+ and says he cannot control most markets.

I feel like your entire post was “GG LOLANETBAD”

you guys cant be srs, really

“I kept the highest buy orders for the precursors, bought out any currently listed and instantly relisted at 25-30% higher. "

this isnt hurting the game of others? this isnt control?

Dead serious.

There is nothing wrong with other people having more money than you.

There is definitely nothing wrong with other people in a video game having more fake money than you.

Are you just jealous that they have more gold than you or ??

It isn’t control. Precursors are being created all the time and sold on the TP. Other players have money and can buy the listings as well. Additionally, you’ve just cited “Random Guy on the Internet” as your proof. He is more than likely fabricating his statements in order to appear “1337”.

It isn’t hurting the game. Legendaries are optional content that bestow no benefit.

And by the way..even if he successfully raised the price because he bought up all the supply – he’s doing the work of the economy.

If people are buying his expensive precursors then the prices before were undervalued. His prices are the new equilibrium.

no vol, ppl will buy them because there is almost no other chance to get one – not because the prices were “undervalued” (wtf)

if you guys think this is ok, fine – i don’t

and no, i am not jealous

Everything is worth what the purchaser is willing to pay for it.

If I buy all of the Precursors and list them for 1 million gold each and someone buys one, then it is worth 1 million gold. Since it is worth 1 million gold, the old prices that I paid were low and thus, the precursors were undervalued.

guardiaN.1640:

no vol, ppl will buy them because there is almost no other chance to get one – not because the prices were “undervalued” (wtf)

if you guys think this is ok, fine – i don’t

and no, i am not jealous

Well then that’s the price they are willing to pay for it! Doesn’t matter the reason behind it, whether it be a ‘reasonable’ price or they are desperate. If someone buys it, that’s the equilibrium.

I know you probably want to buy precursors for 10 silver each but when there are thousands of players willing to pay more than you, there is absolutely zero reason why a seller should pick you. They will pick the highest bid.

Vol.5241:

guardiaN.1640:

no vol, ppl will buy them because there is almost no other chance to get one – not because the prices were “undervalued” (wtf)

if you guys think this is ok, fine – i don’t

and no, i am not jealous

Well then that’s the price they are willing to pay for it! Doesn’t matter the reason behind it, whether it be a ‘reasonable’ price or they are desperate. If someone buys it, that’s the equilibrium.

I know you probably want to buy precursors for 10 silver each but when there are thousands of players willing to pay more than you, there is absolutely zero reason why a seller should pick you. They will pick the highest bid.

At least he’s complaining about economics and learning about it here instead of going out and voting based on this knowledge.

At least I pray he does…..

and you think this isnt control.. after posting this i see i’ve made a mistake posting here, i’m out

We can’t control markets in this game because we have no way of preventing new items from being generated and sold. I can buy out 100% of current stock, of an item which would give me “control” for all of 2 minutes followed by (most likely) insane amounts of competition resulting in a net loss.

You can’t make money by “controlling” a market because other players are constantly creating new items by killing mobs and instantly listing those items. Money is made by playing the margins, which means buying underpriced items and selling them at a more correct price that is still profitable (after the market fees are taken out).

In the real world, I could feasibly use my trillions of dollars to buy up every diamond mine on the planet and all of the diamonds from the jewelry stores and then I would essentially control the diamond market. We can’t do anything even remotely similar in game though because we can’t own the vicious claw mines and keep other players out of them.

guardiaN.1640:

and you think this isnt control.. after posting this i see i’ve made a mistake posting here, i’m out

You can control the supply all you want but it’s pointless.

Let’s imagine this person XYZ bought up all the Dusks and then re-listed it at 1000g. That’s a lot of gold!

I would then take that opportunity to start forging greatswords to take advantage of said price. But then the seller would be forced to keep buying those dusks to maintain his pricepoint! Sure. All the power to him. That only gives more money to the buyer to make more and gamble more.

And how about those individuals who will sell directly to the buyer? XYZ won’t be able to interfere in that.

And the XYZ has no control on the buyer’s price. Sure he may be able to sway the buyer to pay more, but there’s nothing wrong with that.

Good thing is – you can play the game with 0 gold in your wallet. Only thing you can’t do is – buy expensive items from other players.

Hmm..

I don’t care if this is good for the economy or not.

But I would like to thank guardiaN because seeing things like this keeps me from buying gems with cash.

(Yes, I know that’s not rational. Don’t care about that either.)

I think a few players are over simplifying this and unfairly belittling guardiaN.

If a player has sufficient funds to continually buy up 100% of the supply for an item, they can effectively control prices. Agreed that legendaries are not “mandatory” and nobody is required to buy them. However if you control supply, you control prices. You either pay the price set by the controller, or you find another avenue.

There is enough gold in this game that some folks will just pay the price.

Is it wrong? It is illegal in RL — but this is a game. I personally don’t care but I do find it annoying that the economy can be played in such a fashion.

If you read the thread and look at the 300k+ gold picture… it looks and seems fake. The 11k seems legit though.

If some one does create a monopoly or artifically increase the price by buying up a lot of that item, then go farm that item if you can. Others will follow suit and unless the person trying to create the monopoly buys those up as well the price will start to naturally fall again. It is pretty dirty imo and I’ve never done it.

I have plaid the TP before and made gold from it without doing that. It’s as simple as buy with orders→?→ profit. The most simple version of the ? is to just flip the item and list it for the non-order price. Presuming there is a healthy margin (above the tp fees) you’ll make money doing this. There is nothing wrong with this imo. lazy/impatient people are basically willing to give up long term gains for instant gratification.

Most of the higher profits come from speculation which come with greater inherent risk. Remember the high price of the SAB weapons at the end of the event caused by speculators? Go look at them now.

It’s quite funny how someone assumes this player controls the market, when the fact is he’s just increasing his net worth. Nothing more. Either he’s constantly buying up via Buy Orders, or selling at high prices.

As others have pointed out, this player doesn’t control the output of Precursors. The game does. More will be generated from drops, chest, or the Forge. If the player maintains the highest Buy Orders, that’s fine. He can keep buying them. If the player sells said Precursor for a higher price, that’s fine too. A few impatient players with a lot of Gold does not equal control of the market.

I could easily make money off this player. All I need to do is simply place some Precursors between his Buy Order and current listings (assuming he did both). A few scenarios would occur:

1) He would be forced to buy my items in order to maintain his higher price point. Good for me, because then I just sold my items for much higher than what I would get from a Buy Order
2) He would leave my listings alone. Good for me, because then someone would have no choice but to buy from me.
3) He would undercut my prices. Good for everyone else, because then I’m forcing him to cut into his profit stream, and establish a new baseline price.

juno.1840:

I think a few players are over simplifying this and unfairly belittling guardiaN.

If a player has sufficient funds to continually buy up 100% of the supply for an item, they can effectively control prices. Agreed that legendaries are not “mandatory” and nobody is required to buy them. However if you control supply, you control prices. You either pay the price set by the controller, or you find another avenue.

There is enough gold in this game that some folks will just pay the price.

Is it wrong? It is illegal in RL — but this is a game. I personally don’t care but I do find it annoying that the economy can be played in such a fashion.

nope its not illegal to buy all of one type of things(in this chase we have diamonds allready mentiont so lets stick to that) and the sell them agien at a much higher price but there is none in the world with the money to do it and you also need to control the injection of diamonds(that is imposible). so a monopol is not illegal if mad by owning all diamonds but its illegal if you dont own all diamonds but dont allow anyone else to sell there diamonds at a lower price if they want to.

Korsbaek.9803:

juno.1840:

I think a few players are over simplifying this and unfairly belittling guardiaN.

If a player has sufficient funds to continually buy up 100% of the supply for an item, they can effectively control prices. Agreed that legendaries are not “mandatory” and nobody is required to buy them. However if you control supply, you control prices. You either pay the price set by the controller, or you find another avenue.

There is enough gold in this game that some folks will just pay the price.

Is it wrong? It is illegal in RL — but this is a game. I personally don’t care but I do find it annoying that the economy can be played in such a fashion.

nope its not illegal to buy all of one type of things(in this chase we have diamonds allready mentiont so lets stick to that) and the sell them agien at a much higher price but there is none in the world with the money to do it and you also need to control the injection of diamonds(that is imposible). so a monopol is not illegal if mad by owning all diamonds but its illegal if you dont own all diamonds but dont allow anyone else to sell there diamonds at a lower price if they want to.

It is (er… can be?) in the U.S.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Thursday. Maybe not criminal, but civil.

Edit: Nope. Also criminal

“According to the U.S. Government Statute, no person can attempt to manipulate the price of any commodity or the commodity futures market. If the person is found guilty, he may be imprisoned or force to pay monetary damages.” http://www.investorguide.com/article/11837/what-does-it-mean-to-corner-the-market-igu/

first of wiki is not a good source to refore to;)
2nd if you look trough the law a monopol is legal heck there are a few in us right now;)
example apple is the only one allowed to make any apple product and sell it so i cant make a iphone and go sell it but that means they have a monopol on iphones but hey thats illegal is it not? nope its not
3th. its illegal to make a monopol by forcing our oppenets out of business but thats a diffrent story and thats not what we are discusing right now.
4th sources are very importent to remember to check: wiki is the worst of the worst to use for source info as anyone can correct/change it as they see fit

guardiaN.1640:

and you think this isnt control.. after posting this i see i’ve made a mistake posting here, i’m out

I feel ya, this is essentially every single thread I make… xd

edit: lol @ Korsbaek

Korsbaek.9803:

first of wiki is not a good source to refore to;)
2nd if you look trough the law a monopol is legal heck there are a few in us right now;)
example apple is the only one allowed to make any apple product and sell it so i cant make a iphone and go sell it but that means they have a monopol on iphones but hey thats illegal is it not? nope its not
3th. its illegal to make a monopol by forcing our oppenets out of business but thats a diffrent story and thats not what we are discusing right now.
4th sources are very importent to remember to check: wiki is the worst of the worst to use for source info as anyone can correct/change it as they see fit

Not quite a monopoly description. There are other products similar to an iphone that you can get that are competition. A monopoly is owning the whole market with no alternatives to turn to. Look at phone companies. You have your choice of at least 3 that I can think of- maybe more. If you did not have that choice and there was only 1 provider you could use then that would be a monopoly. Which is why we had a break up of Bell a long long time ago :P

juno.1840:

I think a few players are over simplifying this and unfairly belittling guardiaN.

If a player has sufficient funds to continually buy up 100% of the supply for an item, they can effectively control prices.

There is no simplification occurring. Sure, players can do it, but this endeavour incredibly unprofitable.

What is the motivation to “control” prices? Ultimately, it’s to make a profit. But it’s been repeated ad nausea how risky buying out/re-listing precursors are, and how little profit it actually generates.

EDIT: Seriously though, enough with the “buying out precursors and re-listing them at 30% more” conspiracy posts please.

http://www.gw2spidy.com/item/29169

Look at this. Does this look like something that’s been constantly being “bought out and re-listed for more?” No it doesn’t. Prices have been around the same since JANUARY.

Think about it, people. Precursor is listed for 500G. Wealthy person A buys it up and re-lists it all for 575G (15%). Someone else finds one and puts it on the market for 574G (approximately 10 Dawns created per day.). The wealthy person A will have to buy it, and that Dawn must be listed for 660G to make a profit on THAT Dawn. There is no way this is sustainable.

Just think about what you actually have to do to earn a profit by “controlling” prices, people, and you’ll easily see why it’s a stupid idea and why no one is doing it.

Jealous people are jealous, arent they?
Where the f*** is the problem? Its known since the beginning…

The real problem is, that the mayority of people with more than 30k gold have exploitet various times, and i don´t know why anet doesnt ban them, i reportet more exploits and people thar are exploiting than i am able to recognize.

I hope anet has an eye on people with more than 100k gold.. but even they cannot destroy the gem market, for example.

what does someone pay if he buys a skin in the shop? 800 gems?
4g=100gems -> 32g=800gems
32g= 1 shop skin -> 32 000g = 1000 shop skins,
imagine 1000 people buy gems for gold, what happens? not an extreme change, only a few silver difference..

if you buy every banana farm in the world, you also control the banana price, but ingame they just can buy every banan and resell them..

Ursan.7846:

juno.1840:

I think a few players are over simplifying this and unfairly belittling guardiaN.

If a player has sufficient funds to continually buy up 100% of the supply for an item, they can effectively control prices.

There is no simplification occurring. Sure, players can do it, but this endeavour incredibly unprofitable.

What is the motivation to “control” prices? Ultimately, it’s to make a profit. But it’s been repeated ad nausea how risky buying out/re-listing precursors are, and how little profit it actually generates.

To add to this, there is no profit when constantly buying all available Precursors. The player would have had to sell at higher prices at the same speed that Buy Orders were being filled. But since John chimed in, there’s no more need for rebuttals. This thread is now conspiracy complaint based on a someone falling for a Photoshopped pic.

but there ARE people with more than 100k gold… even if that 300k pic is photoshopped.

Still doesn’t change the fact that you can’t control the market in GW2, no matter how much money you have.

waldie.6015:

but there ARE people with more than 100k gold… even if that 300k pic is photoshopped.

John Smith.4610:

Don’t believe everything you see, the 11k is probably real, but the other numbers simply aren’t.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Still doesn’t change the fact that you can’t control the market in GW2, no matter how much money you have.

Well

You can “control” it. You’d hemorrhage a ton of money, but you can control it.

People with enough wits to earn that much gold in the first place aren’t dumb enough to actually do it.

waldie.6015:

but there ARE people with more than 100k gold… even if that 300k pic is photoshopped.

What do you do with 100k gold? Why would you even want to accumulate that much money? Its fake in-game money that has no relevance on in-game power?

Congrats? You can now now have 10 different legendary looks… you are still going to get owned in any game mode except the trading post game.

waldie.6015:

but there ARE people with more than 100k gold… even if that 300k pic is photoshopped.

Do you have any proof of this? or just… “some dude in my guild told me so!”

I suspect the richest person in the game is probably close to this, but I doubt there are more than a handful of people with more than 20k gold.

No player can controll the ingame market since there is no way for any one player to conttroll the supply.

jazzllanna.1278:

Korsbaek.9803:

first of wiki is not a good source to refore to;)
2nd if you look trough the law a monopol is legal heck there are a few in us right now;)
example apple is the only one allowed to make any apple product and sell it so i cant make a iphone and go sell it but that means they have a monopol on iphones but hey thats illegal is it not? nope its not
3th. its illegal to make a monopol by forcing our oppenets out of business but thats a diffrent story and thats not what we are discusing right now.
4th sources are very importent to remember to check: wiki is the worst of the worst to use for source info as anyone can correct/change it as they see fit

Not quite a monopoly description. There are other products similar to an iphone that you can get that are competition. A monopoly is owning the whole market with no alternatives to turn to. Look at phone companies. You have your choice of at least 3 that I can think of- maybe more. If you did not have that choice and there was only 1 provider you could use then that would be a monopoly. Which is why we had a break up of Bell a long long time ago :P

nope there is no alternativ to iphone but iphone there are other systems that can do almost the same but not the same;)(for me it would be the same yes but looking at them system vise no they are not even close to the same)
and the banana example sure you can but you cant stop one from growing hes own and putting them into the market to and that will make you bleed moeny instead of earning them if/when enough grows banana trees on there ground

would this example fit better for you then? how many can sell guildwars 2 or even easyer how many can sell gems to gw2? want the answer 1 company Arenanet are the only once allowed to sell gems and gw2 and if youdont call that a monopol then i dont know(And anyone trying to do it other then them are breaking the law, gameshops are not selling gw2 they made but reselling gw2 that they bought from another middleman or Arenanet themself)

Apple does not have a monopoly…

it does on apply’s products and software as none are able to make it without there promission withour breaking the law its part of the copy right laws;)
there are products that does approemently the same tho there are diffrences in it

guardiaN.1640:

and you think this isnt control.. after posting this i see i’ve made a mistake posting here, i’m out

Will you believe me if I posted on the internet saying a fire-breathing Dragon is chilling in my basement?

ZudetGambeous.9573:

waldie.6015:

but there ARE people with more than 100k gold… even if that 300k pic is photoshopped.

Do you have any proof of this? or just… “some dude in my guild told me so!”

I suspect the richest person in the game is probably close to this, but I doubt there are more than a handful of people with more than 20k gold.

it´s more “if i would have used all exploits that i reported, i could have that amount” .
but yes yes , because there is no video proof of that, it doesnt exist, for sure.
not important, don´t need to discuss it.
20k gold is silly. you could simply farm a few thousand during this event.

"
What do you do with 100k gold? Why would you even want to accumulate that much money? Its fake in-game money that has no relevance on in-game power?
Congrats? You can now now have 10 different legendary looks… you are still going to get owned in any game mode except the trading post game."

I dont care, lol, because i dont have it What do botter with their money? sell it `? dunno

Gold sellers have most real money deal with it.

Somehow I hope we get a gold cap, so other items can get more value in being traded. There is absolutely no reason to let anyone have on a single account more than 10.000 gold.

The problem is not buying a luxury market, i.e. control it the problem is getting people to buy the stuff you are holding. There is a steady inflow of items over time and it becomes a sales/demand game, however this is quite obvious…

10k is doable and maybe even up to 20k but the sale/demand of luxury items arent that big that it slikely anyone accrued much more (unless some glitch has been exploited but I am fairly certain the high rollers are always on ANets radar).

I can believe the 11k, I’d be ready to believe up to 30-50k but anything above that even with bots/exploit I wouldn’t.

I have about 9-10k worth of gold on my character, including 5 legendaries, permanent shop/trader/bank/stylist and it was made with intense farm. 2500 hours which at least 2000 of them are actively farming, which mean; not sitting in lion’s arch or doing sPvP/WvW, but purely what’s the most effective to farm at the time.

I have a friend Actively flipping things in the market and he’s insanely good at it, yet he only got 6k out of it, it is not easy to make profit with trading post the way fees and taxes are. People think that because things like the Sentinel intricate are 30G now and they used to be 1G that some people made thousand out of it. It’s not the case, nobody’s buys them at 30G, let alone at 10G it was hard to sell. And if people would of grabbed thousand before they went up, they wouldn’t have went up this high because the supply would have been higher than the demand.

11kgold.. amazing. You would buy a Legendary like I buy Basic Salvage Kits.

John Smith.4610:

Don’t believe everything you see, the 11k is probably real, but the other numbers simply aren’t.

can any player get near that sum, without flipping the tp?

If the answer is no, don t you see something wrong with that?

11k is peanuts and John Smith knows that very well.
Not even the amount of 3xx.000g is utopical.

Trust me, I know.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but couldn’t it be that it’s in the interest of Anet to have such rich persons? They can/could increase the demand of gems which would lead to a higher price for others and a lower rate of exchange for others?!

A gold cap would be a nice solution — it existed in GW1. It’s not so much a punishment as a limit to the amount of wealth you can accumulate in the system. It’s a safety net against loop holes, exploits, or other unforeseen consequences of game changes.

The number would be sufficiently high so if you hit the cap you are sufficiently wealthy to do whatever you want in the game. The limit exists to prevent a small number of players from doing something drastic in the economy. This something “drastic” might be something that is possible only after a future game change when the vast wealth could be applied in a devious way. This is really a theoretical discussion at this point, but you can imagine the possibilities.

A cap would be a last-line-of-defense in the game economy.

I have no doubt that Precursors can be possibly be cornered, but I challenge anyone to identify another item that can.

Frankly, Precursors should not be possible to trade on TP and ANet made a mistake allowing them to be. The problem is their extremely limited supply potential (due to only being available by MF or very low % drop). This very limited supply and being sellable on the TP is what makes them “controllable” (abet, requiring VAST sums of gold to do so). Unfortunately, those that have those funds will just gain more while doing this. Still, I have no evidence to support this is happening and I doubt ANet is going to admit it is.

I don’t think there are any other items that have such a high end-game demand, are TP salable and have a very limited source. Precursors are an anomoly on the TP and it looks like ANet is going to fix this by allowing them to be crafted. I still think they need to Account Bound them, but that will PO a lot of people currently seeking Legendary Weapons.