undercutters/overbidders
Hopefully you feel encouraged to buy from the lowest seller and to sell to the highest buyer.
Ranger | Elementalist
I agree, it is annoying but oh well.
The only alternative is for the TP to be coded that the next sell listing cannot be lower than x% times the lowest listed price.
I.e. I want to sell my Dusk and the current lowest listing is 1200g. The BLTC limit is 1% (12). Therefore, I cannot list my Dusk higher than 1188g.
But I think this would have a tremendous effect on the economy that it would be an unwise decision.
Ettin copper. Like it.
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“Who’s Ted?”- “Ted’s dead, baby. Ted’s dead.”
“Whose Charr is this?”- “Ted’s.”
“Who’s Ted?”- “Ted’s dead, baby. Ted’s dead.”
Annoying, but we all are guilty of it too.
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Elysaurus | Warrior | [LOL] | League of the Legendary | Gandara (EU)
“Dear ANet, nerf Paper, Scissors is fine. Sincerely, Rock”
Elysaurus | Warrior | [LOL] | League of the Legendary | Gandara (EU)
The only time I undercut by a ton is if I feel the item will not sell at that point.
I.e. when Dusk was at 2000g, any rationale person would say that there is a very, very small chance someone would buy it at that price. It would be foolish to list at 1999.99g, especially since there are other sellers who are looking to get some extra profit too and will undercut you quickly. In this case I would undercut by 250-500g.
When I got my Dusk I listed it at 1250g and I only undercut by 1s. The reason behind this was I checked the price history and found out that people were actually buying Dusk at that range, and I felt comfortable that this price point was close to or at equilibrium price.
If we did what Vol said, prices would barely ever change. take ectos for example. If you had to undercut by 1%, you would have to go from 35s80c to 35s44c. buy orders are currently 35s75c. So you could either sell to highest buy order or match lowest seller. The ecto price would stay at exactly 35s80c for a long time because everyone is forced to buy/sell it at the current price. It would only change if someone came along and bought out 5,000 ectos at once – or listed 5,000 ectos at once.
now, it would be possible to have this in mind when designing your % limit. maybe the price must be undercut by more than 5% of the difference between highest buy and lowest sell price? so if the difference is 5c (like the ectos above), the least you could undercut by is 1c (it’s rounded up). But if you’re talking Sunrise, where it’s 3880g and 3000g, then the least you could undercut by would be 44g. what would also be inherent in this system is that even if there are no buy orders, the undercut limit would still be 5% of the sell listing price.
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welcome to marketing 101 folks. or walmart 101.
As quick as the Valkyries ride,
As true as Odin’s spear flies,
There is nowhere to hide.
As true as Odin’s spear flies,
There is nowhere to hide.
If you don’t stare at your sell order all the time, you won’t be frustrated by things like this. The best real-life market advice I have ever gotten was ‘set and forget’, when you item sells eventually you are 100% free of the feelings that caused you to make your post.
If you don’t stare at your sell order all the time, you won’t be frustrated by things like this. The best real-life market advice I have ever gotten was ‘set and forget’, when you item sells eventually you are 100% free of the feelings that caused you to make your post.
That only works if you don’t need CASH now. I mean I can’t just go up and call JG Wentworth annuity payments instead.
The point being sell and forget only works for people who are rich enough to not need more in the short term. Most players are not in that position.
As u know im pro. ~Tomonobu Itagaki
This is an mmo forum, if someone isn’t whining chances are the game is dead.
This is an mmo forum, if someone isn’t whining chances are the game is dead.
If you don’t stare at your sell order all the time, you won’t be frustrated by things like this. The best real-life market advice I have ever gotten was ‘set and forget’, when you item sells eventually you are 100% free of the feelings that caused you to make your post.
That only works if you don’t need CASH now. I mean I can’t just go up and call JG Wentworth annuity payments instead.
The point being sell and forget only works for people who are rich enough to not need more in the short term. Most players are not in that position.
So make a better assessment of when an item will sell.
It’s really as simple as that, if you want to sell an item faster you will sell it for less.
That’s how it works.
You can either wait for a higher buy offer and fulfill it, or simply put up a sell offer so low that you expect it to sell fast.
Or in other words: stop being greedy if you don’t want to get undercut
If you don’t stare at your sell order all the time, you won’t be frustrated by things like this. The best real-life market advice I have ever gotten was ‘set and forget’, when you item sells eventually you are 100% free of the feelings that caused you to make your post.
That only works if you don’t need CASH now. I mean I can’t just go up and call JG Wentworth annuity payments instead.
The point being sell and forget only works for people who are rich enough to not need more in the short term. Most players are not in that position.
So make a better assessment of when an item will sell.
It’s really as simple as that, if you want to sell an item faster you will sell it for less.
That’s how it works.You can either wait for a higher buy offer and fulfill it, or simply put up a sell offer so low that you expect it to sell fast.
Or in other words: stop being greedy if you don’t want to get undercut
Except for the first sentence, I don’t understand what your response has to do with my comment.
so here is my response: mooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
As u know im pro. ~Tomonobu Itagaki
This is an mmo forum, if someone isn’t whining chances are the game is dead.
This is an mmo forum, if someone isn’t whining chances are the game is dead.
to OP. How do you think the person you undercut feels?
All this qq about undercutting and such. All the people who have complained about it have undercut someone else wanting a faster sale.
That’s why I always go to GW2Spidy and look up the item(s), then put them on the TP for a few copper less than the 1-day average selling price. Hardly ever have an item on the TP for more than 24 hours this way.
And yes, doing it this way there are many times when I will list an item for MORE than the current listing price, and yet still my items sell almost 100% of the time within 24 hours.
If you don’t stare at your sell order all the time, you won’t be frustrated by things like this. The best real-life market advice I have ever gotten was ‘set and forget’, when you item sells eventually you are 100% free of the feelings that caused you to make your post.
That only works if you don’t need CASH now. I mean I can’t just go up and call JG Wentworth annuity payments instead.
The point being sell and forget only works for people who are rich enough to not need more in the short term. Most players are not in that position.
I am at a loss. You need cash now, but I assume need more cash than the Sell-it-Now option permits? A life of crime is the only answer to your problem.
In the extreme, selling to the highest bidder prevents undercutting entirely. Therefore those of us who ask for more than that risk someone else offering a lower price. Sure, it’s annoying when the asking price is tens or hundreds of gold and the undercut amount is a few silver, but that just tells me that (surprise), I’m not the only trying to make a buck on that particular item.
John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”
As someone stated in another thread. If the item is high volume then 1c doesn’t matter. If it’s low volume and 1c matters then your price was too high to start with.
The key to buying with bids and selling with sell orders is patience and some working knowledge about price history of the item you are buying or selling. The second is provided by a number of sites, I use GW2TP.COM, the first however is the most difficult to learn in our “on demand” world.
We are heroes. This is what we do!
RIP City of Heroes
RIP City of Heroes
Thats why you dont sell stuff that have low volume of trade on top price or you just asking for it,put it in middle of buyorder and top price and you will be fine.
Meh…..
Whine, whine, whine. Mr. OP
Man up and overbid/underbid by 10%. Your sniffles will be solved by conviction.
i find it much more annoying when people come and list their item for 2-3g less than yours because they think its smart and will get sold faster. if it doesnt there will be another person thinking the same thing and drop the price by another 2-3g….
at least with 1 copper the price would stay the same.
Ex player of PeanutButterJellyTime, Heavenly Annoying and Visceral Gaming.
i find it much more annoying when people come and list their item for 2-3g less than yours because they think its smart and will get sold faster. if it doesnt there will be another person thinking the same thing and drop the price by another 2-3g….
at least with 1 copper the price would stay the same.
If they’re selling it for that much lower than your listing, clearly the item’s priced too high compared to the buy now orders.
no, people think they can sell it faster if they sell it for less and thats wrong. if somebody wants an item he will buy it for the selling price. usually the ones selling it for much lower are the ones who got it as drops and dont care about flip marging.
Ex player of PeanutButterJellyTime, Heavenly Annoying and Visceral Gaming.
no, people think they can sell it faster if they sell it for less and thats wrong. if somebody wants an item he will buy it for the selling price. usually the ones selling it for much lower are the ones who got it as drops and dont care about flip marging.
Selling with an undercut of several gold chases off the people who undercut by 1-3c because it’s an opportunity cost. Either undercut and sell first (and lose gold) or undercut the next highest price point and get more gold who knows when.
thats something i understand but im talking about players selling it for under the current profit price. when they do that it can lead to a price drop especially with slow selling items. either it gets bought right away or it stays on the tp and after some time the same will happen again, a price undercut and all the previous sellers will lose money if this downwards spiral continues. as a seller you are either forced to wait until all the items get sold or you take it off the tp and lose the 10% fee you paid and relist it for cheaper making even more loss.
Ex player of PeanutButterJellyTime, Heavenly Annoying and Visceral Gaming.
no, people think they can sell it faster if they sell it for less and thats wrong. if somebody wants an item he will buy it for the selling price. usually the ones selling it for much lower are the ones who got it as drops and dont care about flip marging.
What is this series of random words? It almost looks like you’re trying to say something, but trying to understand it makes my head hurt.
no, people think they can sell it faster if they sell it for less and thats wrong. if somebody wants an item he will buy it for the selling price. usually the ones selling it for much lower are the ones who got it as drops and dont care about flip marging.
What is this series of random words? It almost looks like you’re trying to say something, but trying to understand it makes my head hurt.
Take a tylenol, what he said makes perfect sense…
take a look at my thread “a social solution to price undercutting” where i talk about how we as a community can prevent price undercutting (i dont care about overbidding because u can just instantly take ur offer out and put it back in for no cost at all to you, and if ur smart u wont do it by 1c cuz then ul just get outbid again).
no, people think they can sell it faster if they sell it for less and thats wrong.
Can’t …. believe …. someone …. just …. said …. this.
No, no, your right … people love buying stuff for NOT the lowest price. Class dismissed.
soooo, all should care about the flippers and adjust prices accordingly?
(edited by JoeytheHutt.1742)
no, people think they can sell it faster if they sell it for less and thats wrong.
Can’t …. believe …. someone …. just …. said …. this.
No, no, your right … people love buying stuff for NOT the lowest price. Class dismissed.
You have missed the whole point, which was that simply listing something lower does not make it sell faster. People buy at the lowest price point, but undercutting doesn’t guarantee you that lowest point unless the buyer buys at the moment the seller lists their undercut. Since anyone can undercut anybody else, the poster you quoted is correct: listing an item lower does not guarantee it sells faster. It guarantees it sells lower.
no, people think they can sell it faster if they sell it for less and thats wrong. if somebody wants an item he will buy it for the selling price. usually the ones selling it for much lower are the ones who got it as drops and dont care about flip marging.
this is the kind of reasoning that leads geniuses to listing dusk for 2000g, believing it will actually sell
people, for your own sake, be smarter than this
(edited by wwfam.2495)
no, people think they can sell it faster if they sell it for less and thats wrong. if somebody wants an item he will buy it for the selling price. usually the ones selling it for much lower are the ones who got it as drops and dont care about flip marging.
What is this series of random words? It almost looks like you’re trying to say something, but trying to understand it makes my head hurt.
Take a tylenol, what he said makes perfect sense…
not really. his post is basically garbage
no, people think they can sell it faster if they sell it for less and thats wrong.
Can’t …. believe …. someone …. just …. said …. this.
No, no, your right … people love buying stuff for NOT the lowest price. Class dismissed.
You have missed the whole point, which was that simply listing something lower does not make it sell faster. People buy at the lowest price point, but undercutting doesn’t guarantee you that lowest point unless the buyer buys at the moment the seller lists their undercut. Since anyone can undercut anybody else, the poster you quoted is correct: listing an item lower does not guarantee it sells faster. It guarantees it sells lower.
It makes it sell faster for two reasons actually:
1) it’s next in the buy list
2) it’s cheaper.
no, people think they can sell it faster if they sell it for less and thats wrong.
Can’t …. believe …. someone …. just …. said …. this.
No, no, your right … people love buying stuff for NOT the lowest price. Class dismissed.
You have missed the whole point, which was that simply listing something lower does not make it sell faster. People buy at the lowest price point, but undercutting doesn’t guarantee you that lowest point unless the buyer buys at the moment the seller lists their undercut. Since anyone can undercut anybody else, the poster you quoted is correct: listing an item lower does not guarantee it sells faster. It guarantees it sells lower.
Do you know how the TP works? With sell listings, you don’t choose which item to buy, you choose the quantity and buy that many items starting with the lowest price. If I list something at 10g and you list the same thing at 8g, unless one of us removes the listing yours will sell before mine. This doesn’t stop someone else from listing the item at 6g, which will sell before both of our listings.
The lower the price, the sooner it sells. Knowing the right price for the market for each item is important. Prices that are too high will never sell, while prices that are too low will sell right away, usually to someone who will flip it for a profit.
no, people think they can sell it faster if they sell it for less and thats wrong.
Can’t …. believe …. someone …. just …. said …. this.
No, no, your right … people love buying stuff for NOT the lowest price. Class dismissed.
You have missed the whole point, which was that simply listing something lower does not make it sell faster. People buy at the lowest price point, but undercutting doesn’t guarantee you that lowest point unless the buyer buys at the moment the seller lists their undercut. Since anyone can undercut anybody else, the poster you quoted is correct: listing an item lower does not guarantee it sells faster. It guarantees it sells lower.
You and Jekkt are missing the point. If you list something for 4g, I undercut you and list at 3g, and the buy orders are 1g maximum, who between the two of us are going to sell first, you? No, I’m the one selling before you, because of that, I’m selling faster than you are. “Fast” has always been a subjective term, and in this case, it’s referring to the fact that my listing sells before yours does.
no, people think they can sell it faster if they sell it for less and thats wrong.
Can’t …. believe …. someone …. just …. said …. this.
No, no, your right … people love buying stuff for NOT the lowest price. Class dismissed.
some people do, i made an entire thread about wanting to buy from higher sellers
notice all the people against this idea are also offering hardcore market advice…..i think we know which type of person is really in favor of the undercutter =p
not all of us want to watch the market, some of us would rathe rplay the game and STILL not support the idea of undercutting by 1c, i think thats a game we can build together
notice all the people against this idea are also offering hardcore market advice…..i think we know which type of person is really in favor of the undercutter =p
not all of us want to watch the market, some of us would rathe rplay the game and STILL not support the idea of undercutting by 1c, i think thats a game we can build together
I’m not “in favor” of the undercutter. I’m in favor of a system which benefits everyone in the game or at least more people than it harms. Focusing on the handful of situations in which being undercut by 1c significantly affects someone’s gaming experience offers little benefit to the player base as a whole.
If I don’t want to be undercut, I can accept the lowest custom buy offer. As soon as I ask for more than 2c beyond that price, I know I risk someone offering less. Even then, that just means I don’t sell first — I have yet to encounter the situation in which I failed to sell because someone (or several someones) undercut me by 1c; that only happens when I get too greedy/misjudge the market and ask for too much.
Adding rules or mechanics around undercutting reduces the pressure on the sellers to decrease their asking prices, which hurts anyone interested in buying the items in question. That’s bad for more people than it benefits — and that’s why I can’t support the idea of regulating undercutting (or overbidding).
John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”
not all of us want to watch the market, some of us would rathe rplay the game and STILL not support the idea of undercutting by 1c, i think thats a game we can build together
But you see, you don’t need to watch the market. That’s your option. You can’t complain your watching the market if you have the option to not do so. If you can’t be bothered to watch the market, simply sell to the highest offer and be done with it. That’s your solution.
not all of us want to watch the market, some of us would rathe rplay the game and STILL not support the idea of undercutting by 1c, i think thats a game we can build together
But you see, you don’t need to watch the market. That’s your option. You can’t complain your watching the market if you have the option to not do so. If you can’t be bothered to watch the market, simply sell to the highest offer and be done with it. That’s your solution.
I had some crafting mats on the TP that I listed months ago, apparently at the top of a price spike. I haven’t been watching the market or paying attention to what’s happening beyond reading the forums, but with the Festival driving up demand for mats, I logged in a while back to find most of my TP cleaned out and about 150g waiting for me.
There is no problem here, just impatience.
^^ Agreed. People should not be suggesting that impatience and ignorance be rewarded at the expense of other people’s patience and thoughtful interaction with the TP.
no, people think they can sell it faster if they sell it for less and thats wrong.
Can’t …. believe …. someone …. just …. said …. this.
No, no, your right … people love buying stuff for NOT the lowest price. Class dismissed.
You have missed the whole point, which was that simply listing something lower does not make it sell faster. People buy at the lowest price point, but undercutting doesn’t guarantee you that lowest point unless the buyer buys at the moment the seller lists their undercut. Since anyone can undercut anybody else, the poster you quoted is correct: listing an item lower does not guarantee it sells faster. It guarantees it sells lower.
You and Jekkt are missing the point. If you list something for 4g, I undercut you and list at 3g, and the buy orders are 1g maximum, who between the two of us are going to sell first, you? No, I’m the one selling before you, because of that, I’m selling faster than you are. “Fast” has always been a subjective term, and in this case, it’s referring to the fact that my listing sells before yours does.
This is true, but it isn’t how the trading post behaves. When I buy 250 logs to craft with, it doesn’t matter that somewhere in the middle Doug undercut you who undercut Jekkt who undercut Tom who undercut the first guy to list a log, because all of the logs are bought. You sold your logs first, but we all sold our logs at the same time. That is what I took Jekkt to mean, and he is right in that regard. Undercutting doesn’t create buyers, if somebody wants my Dusk it would have sold at 999g just as easily as at 998g.
The perception he was (I suspect) trying to dispel was that a seller can undercut anybody anywhere and their item will sell in a jiffy, which is far from true in many markets.
I am hung-over, so I am almost certain this isn’t coming out as clearly as I would like.
(edited by NonToxic.9185)
notice all the people against this idea are also offering hardcore market advice…..i think we know which type of person is really in favor of the undercutter =p
not all of us want to watch the market, some of us would rathe rplay the game and STILL not support the idea of undercutting by 1c, i think thats a game we can build together
I’m not “in favor” of the undercutter. I’m in favor of a system which benefits everyone in the game or at least more people than it harms. Focusing on the handful of situations in which being undercut by 1c significantly affects someone’s gaming experience offers little benefit to the player base as a whole.
If I don’t want to be undercut, I can accept the lowest custom buy offer. As soon as I ask for more than 2c beyond that price, I know I risk someone offering less. Even then, that just means I don’t sell first — I have yet to encounter the situation in which I failed to sell because someone (or several someones) undercut me by 1c; that only happens when I get too greedy/misjudge the market and ask for too much.
Adding rules or mechanics around undercutting reduces the pressure on the sellers to decrease their asking prices, which hurts anyone interested in buying the items in question. That’s bad for more people than it benefits — and that’s why I can’t support the idea of regulating undercutting (or overbidding).
do we really want the seller to reduce asking price? i mean look at this game’s economy there are thousands of items and less than 20 of them r worht over 1000g, this economy is rampant with undercutting and its driving everyone into a place where nobody can have a large amount of money without flipping
Here is a really simple view of the economy: There is a pile of gold, and a pile of mats. In between are people trading them. Changing the rules on how people trade those two piles doesn’t change the size of the gold and mat piles. If those rules drive out efficiency, the value of mats increases. This is where flipping, undercutting, etc.. are a NECESSARY part of getting the most efficient people the most value.
For whatever reason, you don’t want efficiency. You don’t seem to recognize this hurts the average player. TP barons are rich because they have an eye for making these efficiencies happen for us regular folk. There is no rule that removes this ability. The only reason they are rich for it is because there are alot of really clueless regular folk trying to make that system as inefficient as they can. There is also no rule that can make clueless people less so.
I really don’t see the point of any rules you want to implement to restrict TP … clueless people still gonna be clueless. Just with more rules, they will clueless and struggle more than they do now to get gear.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
While having no default choice on the sell screen might, just might mind you, change some players default choice it’s more likely to annoy many, many more who will still insist and immediate sales for coin in hand. Same is true with buying, if the set your price comes up first with you needing to click “buy now” to get the low sell price list.
We are a society of immediacy. If not we would be buying everything on Amazon and malls would be closed up ghost towns. We are willing to pay more if we can get our hands on it now. No different in the virtual world. And if we are guaranteed to get it at the lowest possible price at the moment, all the better. And because of this there will always be undercutting if you choose to sell an item yourself. Because even though you are willing to wait for a better payout than selling to the highest bidder, most aren’t willing to wait a day or a week for that difference.
We are heroes. This is what we do!
RIP City of Heroes
RIP City of Heroes
Just be patient. If you’ve listed your item at a reasonable price, it WILL sell eventually, even if you get undercut a few times by 1c each. If more than a week passes and your item still hasn’t sold, then chances are you priced it too high (or the market moved lower), and you should look at relisting.
I psot in this what I posted in another thread. This TC is complaining because someone is willing to take less profit then him. I.E someone isn’t selling at his expected value.
why take someone that greedy seriously again?
I psot in this what I posted in another thread. This TC is complaining because someone is willing to take less profit then him. I.E someone isn’t selling at his expected value.
why take someone that greedy seriously again?
or is the greedy person the one who wants it NOW instead of having some patience? maybe the undercutter is the one we shudnt take seriously