Guild Wars 2

I was playing my Asura and got to a part in my personal story where me and Zojja were listening to other Asura inventors and researchers explain the various things they have discovered via experimentation.

At one point a female Asura explains she’s been running on tests on what I assume is intelligence, she states that in her findings that Asura were naturally the brightest, followed by Charr, then Human and Sylvari and in last place was Norn.

Does anyone know if this has been confirmed? At first I found it kind of humorous because the Charr come off as brutes but upon further thinking I realized it actually makes a lot of sense, what with their architecture and machines.

TLDR: Discuss Charr being smarter than Humans.

Intelligence is very hard to test accurately. Asura testing intelligence probably focus on traits valuable to asura, which one can assume charr possess based on both races/cultures having a focus on intricate systems (even if one is mostly machinery and the other mostly magic).

I think they were talking about natural affinity to magic, and humans and norn were at the bottom of the list because humans were given magic by their gods and norn by their spirits or something like that.

I honesty can’t recall the specifics, I was too distracted by the oppertunity to break into Flax’s place for the second time. I trashed the place like an 80s rock band in a hotel room.

You only have an Asurans word for it

Actually Charr are the second brightest race, the brightest on Tyria are of course the Dolphins, Asurans are actually third.
Humans have shown the ability to run away when facing a Charr so i suppose you can count them as intelligent.
Sylvari, celery that wants to live life as a centaur more confused than intelligent.
Norn have been know to starve to death while desciding what to eat for breakfast.

Well the Asura can be in Char territory studying their technology so they probably consider them to be pretty smart. After all Char and Asura can make machines while Humans, Norns, and Sylvari can’t or at least haven’t.

Honestly, I think the Charr are the smartest, followed by Asura—but of course the Asura won’t admit that.
The Asura are creative and forward-thinking, but they require magic for their inventions. Whereas the charr are also creative and forward-thinking, but are capable of inventing things magic-free by using materials from the world around them. Ask an Asura to do anything worthwhile without magic? They can’t XD

The rest is pretty accurate though. Humans are dingbats, but you have to admit—they have a technology advantage over Sylvari and Norn and they’re more organized. Sylvari have the potential to take the Human place on the intellect scale, but that’s going to take awhile. They’re too new currently. Norn are just brainless doorknobs.

To be honest, I always thought the Charr and Asura WERE the smartest. Probably because I liked them the most.
Charr invented GUNS. That in itself is an amazing achievement. Then they made ‘nades and tanks and such.
Asurans are architectural masterminds. They imbue their tech with magic and bam, golems, floating cities. And they just came out of their caverns.
Asurans do need magic to make what they need work, but what they create is utterly amazing.
Charr dont need magic, they use their own skill to make it. They didnt just invent engineering, they ARE engineering in its prime.
Humans, Norn, and Sylvari arent as smart, lets face it. But they arent idiots. I myself dont like them, but they aren’t dumb.
This is just my 2 copper.

When I was in the those zones, Asura were testing all kinds of really strange things and coming up with the most bizarre results. I’ve overheard the one you’re talking about, and find it about as unplausible as the others. I wouldn’t take any of it as being 100% true.

Depends on what ‘smart’ means in this context.
Asura might have the highest IQ, they are all mathematical minds, but they’re very childish and seem to have problems with concentration (all those experiments gone wrong). The Charr on the other hand are very practical minds, constant war fuels their technological advancement. They are in the worst situation of all the races (fighting Branded, Flame Legion, ghosts and just until recently humans) and yet they come out on top.

Wasn’t Rata Sum originally an abandoned Mursaat city that the Asura claimed? Either way, I always saw Asura science as something akin to Apature Science research. They throw science at the wall and sees what sticks, even if it’s replacing your blood with peanut oil or shooting magic lightning through dead things to see what happens. It’s all very random and very dangerous.

Khyron.8735:

They throw science at the wall and sees what sticks, even if it’s replacing your blood with peanut oil or shooting magic lightning through dead things to see what happens. It’s all very random and very dangerous.

Good point so many tech things in the game seem to be found then asurans fiddle with them till they do some thing resulting in the all to common “my labs being eaten but creatures come save me quests”

A little like wondering what happens when you pass 40,000volts through a dead parrot then crying eureka ive discovered fried chicken.

cargan.5689:

A little like wondering what happens when you pass 40,000volts through a dead parrot then crying eureka ive discovered fried chicken.

In all fairness that would be quite an accomplishment.

In Diessa Plateau, there’s a couple Charr launching cows in the direction of a harpy nest.

It’s safe to conclude that not all Charr are all that smart. The same can be said of the Asurans as well.

If you think that’s bad, wait ’til you see the alt-fire on a WvW trebuchet…

If I recall, I believe one of the Asurans said that the order of IQ went Asura, Sylvari, Charr, Human, Norn. I believe they gave the Sylvari a slight edge because as a new race, the Sylvari are quite curious and the fact that all knowledge that one Sylvari learns can be transferred to the Pale Tree to help the next generation of Sylvari the Pale Tree produces could be a powerful force. The Charr obviously come next because of their wonderful structures and raw inventive power, even if it is almost solely for war purposes and lack a magical element. Humans come next. They aren’t quite as inventive as the Charr but they are still miles ahead of the Norn when it comes to sophistication of their buildings. Norn come in last and this is not really a shock to anyone. Granted, these were just my opinions as to why I think the Asurans would say this, though I believe I agree with them.

Little do the Asura know but the Black Citadel is fully operational

I think technically the Charr are the smartest, because unlike the Asura, they figured out ways to make their technology, siege weapons, etc. work without a magic power source.

MadDemon.7548:

I think technically the Charr are the smartest, because unlike the Asura, they figured out ways to make their technology, siege weapons, etc. work without a magic power source.

And charr weaponry don’t blow up all the time or cause a rift to open up to bring in hell from all over the world.

Esorono.1039:

And charr weaponry don’t blow up all the time or cause a rift to open up to bring in hell from all over the world.

Made me lol a lot.
What charr weaponry DOES do, is blow up enemies all the time, and cause a rift in their enemies bodies with weapons.

I second that. Charr first, Asura second, Sylvari third (until they learn eveything and transfere it to the Pale Tree), Human fourth, and who would have guessed? Norn last. I’m sorry Norn, but you guys are idiots of the first (last?) class.

Difficult to say whether Charr or Asuran are more intelligent as to me their more or less equal, just their methods of doing things differ, but I’d like to put foreward my idea of the shiny red button experiment.

Both Charr and Asura would likely spend time trying to figure out what the big red button does before pressing it or coming up with ways to press it while at a hopefuly safe distance while a Sylvari out of curiosity would probably press the button to see what it does without too much concern of the consequences. A Norn on the otherhand would be wise enough to know that pressing a random big red shiny button is probably a bad idea until they know what it does. Humans though vary greatly as some may be curious or reckless enough to press the button, while others may be smart or wise enough not to press it until more is known.

Norn don’t always get that random shiny buttons shouldn’t be pushed. But I agree with everything else.

As Lamefox said, intelligence is hard to test. There are many diffrent kind of intelligences that are tested for nowadays, including emotional intelligence. The Asura are probably focusing on what they hold in priority. Like inventing.

It is fairly obvious that the Skritt are the Smartest race in game.

While Asura and Charr are somewhat equal since the Asura i doomed if someone makes an MMP or AMP ( Magical magnetic Pulse/ Alchemical magnetic pulse)…

GrizzlyTank.3145:

It is fairly obvious that the Skritt are the Smartest race in game.

Depends. We know they get smarter when there’s more of them, but in what way? Does each skritt multiply the intelligence of those around it, or are they sharing their total intelligence so that they might be able to do something like understand the bomb from the storyline? And if so, can that group only focus on one main idea at a time?

There’s also the issue of range. Suppose you had 1,000 skritt standing in a long line, does the whole line ‘connect’ as one? What about a maximum number of connexions – does it exist?

Technically, Sylvari will become the smartest race, simply because once at least one of every Sylvari learns something new, which is transferred to the Pale Tree, which new Sylvari learn, and then they don’t focus on learning old things or trying to outdo each other. And with unbounded curiosity, they will go into situations that other wouldn’t. They’ll learn from that, not do it again. They’re like robots, that way. On the Sylvari forum section, there is a post which thinks that it could be possible for them to be robots.

Well…
The charr will simply burn down the pale tree then :>
There, smartest race again.

However, I agree on Skritt.
Throw a thousand Skritt into a hole and watch them develop nukes.

Btw, how would a hypothetical war between Charr and Asura end?
:>

A war between the Charr and Asura would probably end in some sort of stalemate, seeing as how neither race has the capability for a sustained offensive over such a distance. In the Asura forums they are pretty sure why they would win due to golems, gates for travel (military advantage in moving armies) etc.

I would first like to shoot down the idea that asura would win. Asura tech is mostly based on magic which in most of their inventions results in the more notable ‘save my lab from the rampaging monsters’ events. That tech is not really battle tested in most cases. Asura mostly preferring to keep their inventions from the competition AKA other Asura which prevents mass production like Charr in weaponry.
Golems could be used against the Charr, but most share about the same size as a Charr. Resulting in fighting an enemy roughly the same size, stronger but slower (its movements less fluid and lacking battle instinct). The question is what material golems are made of? (I cant remember if arenanet said that Charr are superior in forging to the other races). This would affect the Charr’s ability to destroy them.

Gates are another argument used by people on the Asura forum, but the only Asura gate in Charr lands is in the Black Citadel. It is seperated from the city by a bridge and a gate. One of the npc’s metioned the bridge could be blown up in case of attack (and possibly the gate, he didnt say), again depending on how strong the material/magic is. Making the nearest gate Ebonhawke or the Norn city, which are both quite a distance from the lands of the Iron Legion, not to mention Blood Legion lands further north-east.
Last argument against Asura is that they are too divided at the moment. They operate in a krew which is their first and foremost loyalty when a conflict arisis, even with other Asura. The council of Asura either doesnt really care leading the Asura or doesnt have the power. It lets the Asura fight amongst themselves, seeing as how they dont consider the inquest evil while most krews have a vendetta against them for stealing research.

Now for the Charr I can be a little shorter (sorry for the long post :p). At the moment most of their forces are tied up fighting the Flame legion and the Ascalonian ghosts. Not even able to take out Ebonhawke, which although supported by Kryta shouldnt be a match for the full might of 3 combined legions.
For leadership they have the problem of 3 legions who dont want any of the other to rule them. Fighting a war against the Asura would require good co-operation but the legions take care of their own interests first.
Lastly its the distance, which is huge. Logistical issues to supply a army at Rata Sum are one of the biggest problems. Not having gates like Asura or bordering an ocean to ship supplies from everything would have to be shipped over the Shiverpeaks. For example just food would be a huge issue, seeing as Charr only eat meat. Meat will most likely spoil over such a long distance, not to mention the large amounts that Charr require. So their supply trains would need to include cattle which would also have to be fed, since every region such a train would move trough would quickly be out of fodder.

This is just my view on a Charr and Asura war. I have named the arguments I think are of the greatest importance (again I think). But others undoubtly have other arguments to contribute to such a discussion. I would apologise for any spelling mistakes as I am not a native speaker.

tl;dr A Charr-Asura war would most likely end in a stalemate in which neither side would get the upper hand. (BTW I am a Charr player myself, im all for supporting our goals for world domination, but just being realistic :p)

As far as I can see, the Asura have the greatest capacity for theory and experimentation, while the Charr (and, to be honest, the Dredge) have the greatest capacity for practical, technological application. Both types of intelligence.

The Sylvari, it seems, have the most open minds, and possibly even the greatest capacity for learning. If that’s the kind of intelligence you value, the Sylvari could be said to be the smartest.

@ The big post.
Awesome post. It shows all the cons and pros of both the races fighting.
Mostly what I see is that the by far strongest races cough ASURAANDCHARR cough both have the same weaknesses, which is in their own race. Flame legion and Inquest, more quests about them then the Nightmare Court or the Svanir guys or whoever the humans fight.
If there was no civil weaknesses, the fight would be very extreme… I would have to say Charr would win ( I like both of the races a lot, im not biased)
@ Neilos, Dont forget military intel for the Charr (and to be honest the Dredge )

Some are assuming Asura can’t be credited for their inventions/structures as much as Charr because they need magic to build/conjure whatever. In my opinion though, using magic only makes them smarter. They have the power to move things with their mind, while Charr just brutally force things together…

I do get the idea that Charr are #2 on the list though, due to their inventions.

About Charr vs Asura:
The Asuran ground troops can’t do kitten against the Charr war machinery…
Meanwhile, the Charr can’t do kitten once Asura really try to hold a position.
Asura can’t invade cause their troops just aren’t fit to face the most powerful weaponsystem, while Charr can’t invade either… Because if the Asura focus on holding on, they can do so almost infinitely with their technology. Couple a huge generator with a defensive grid and no Charr gets through.

In the end, it will be a contest of superweapons.
The Searing on Rata Sum vs a reproduction of the reactor incident on the Black Citadel or something. Dunno :>

I’ve always thought the asura were written to think they were smart, but the way they come across (or are written) they seem no different from anyone else. The same for the charr. The only race which seems mostly less intelligent than other races are the norn. The asura seem like a lot of hot air.

I’ve never found the charr to be more intelligent than other races.

Waiting for Gorr to return (non-cinematic):
Cepha: An exhaustive study of Tyrian physiognomy led me to drive what I call Cepha’s Constant.
Cepha: Multiplied by the mean ratio of body mass to brain size, it yields an important racial metric.
Cepha: Namely, said race’s importance as a factor in the Eternal Alchemy.
Cepha: Asura scored highest, naturally. Then, in descending order, we have sylvari, charr, human, and norn.

found this on the wiki page, i also heard it in the story so i was curious about it. it seems to say that sylvari are 2nd then charr at 3rd, look it up

I seem to recall an Asura in Metrica Province claiming that the world’s highest concentration of intelligence could be found there, gradually diminishing as one went further out into the world, “until you reach the Black Citadel, where no measurable intelligence can be found.”

Zaxares.5419:

I seem to recall an Asura in Metrica Province claiming that the world’s highest concentration of intelligence could be found there, gradually diminishing as one went further out into the world, “until you reach the Black Citadel, where no measurable intelligence can be found.”

They call them selves smart yet they made a mistake. They can’t measure any intelligence in Black Citadel because the devices they’re using cannot even begin to comprehend how smart Charr really are. Asuran Epic Fail!

Shadowdawn.7946:

They call them selves smart yet they made a mistake. They can’t measure any intelligence in Black Citadel because the devices they’re using cannot even begin to comprehend how smart Charr really are. Asuran Epic Fail!

That’s not a mistake. Asuran technology is so advanced it can sometimes seem broken. :P

Part of what makes the Charr so advanced is they are geniuses of hard work. When there’s a problem, every Charr will focus on it until the problem is fixed. It’s not that every individual Charr is a genius, it’s that collectively the Charr will smack a problem until it’s fixed.

What Hazmat was talking about

Flyfunner.2093:

What Hazmat was talking about

All that binge drinking the Norn indulge in probably doesn’t help their intelligence much either.

cargan.5689:

Humans have shown the ability to run away when facing a Charr so i suppose you can count them as intelligent.
Sylvari, celery that wants to live life as a centaur more confused than intelligent.
Norn have been know to starve to death while desciding what to eat for breakfast.

Hitchhiker’s reference aside, this post made me choke on breakfast cereal.

Flyfunner.2093:

What Hazmat was talking about

Hmmm, reading that it appears not so much to relate to intelligence then to a races affinity to the Asuran idea of the Eternal Alchemy, in which obviously Asura would come out on top of, while Sylvari would likely quickly pick it up with their thirst for learning new things and their seemingly natural affinity to magic.

Charr probably come next as they have shown exceptional feats of engineering despite their disdain of incorperating magic into their processes like the Asura do.

Humans again due to their varied nature come fourth as while some may have a knack for magic and or engineering, as a whole the race isn’t exceptional in these areas and average at best.

Norn are likely seen as too simple and barbaric to fit well with the Asuran view of the Eternal Alchemy.

If we’re only counting the majour races than I’d say that the charr excel in the same fields the asura do. If not than I’m banking on the skritt since the asura actually fear their intelligence.

Really..? I heard an asuran npc talk about the smartest races being; Asura, sylvari, human, norn and charr..

There are different types of intelligence and thinking – some of these already stated:

Asura: Very much like a modern 21st century country that is dependent on electricity / telecommunications to survive. The Asura are very smart, but their culture is based on using magic power to supplement their work. Could the Asura society survive without magic or have they become so dependent on it that they would intellectually collapse without it? How intelligent are you if you are helpless in a blackout?

Charr: Reminds me of the Renaissance / Industrial Revolution. Charr society is the opposite of the Asura – devoid of magic (or electricity) and dependent on raw physical technology. If they could use magic to supplement their machines, could they invent bigger and better things than the Asura? How much is the Charr society holding itself back refusing to use the magic that is a part of their world?

Sylvari: First thing I think about is the blue people in Avatar. The fact that they have a hive-mind intellectual database means they could potentially be the smartest, but at the same time, they have a lot of eggs in one basket. The real weak point is complete lack of industry that leaves them (and their intellectual database) defenseless. Of course, this is under the assumption that the Sylvari would want to be the “smartest” and assuming that intelligence means building things like Rata Sum or The Citadel.

Humans: In the GW world, humans aren’t all that intelligent. A big thing to think about is, what is the Human homeworld like? (according to lore, humans were brought to Tyria by the Gods) We can also gather that because of the reliance on the Gods, Humans really weren’t pushing themselves to be all they could. And considering the splintered nature of Humans over the centuries, it’s not hard to see why they haven’t made much progress.

Norn: The problem here is that the Norn don’t exactly value intelligence, instead relying on wisdom as a judge of mental prowess. You could say that the Norn spiritual nature holds them back, but they don’t want to exactly push forward. While the Charr and Asura want to figure out the world and control it, the Norn (and Sylvari) would rather live in harmony with it. The Norn don’t have intellectual technology like some other species, but they don’t need it to survive.

Skritt: Potentially the smartest species in the game, if they could gain the numbers to adequately process the information. Most of the ‘enemy’ Skritt encountered in the game are in small groups and rely on stealing since they can’t create things on their own. In the large ‘friendly’ Skritt cities, they are seen experimenting with technology from other societies. As players we don’t really know how much of the Skritt we have seen – is what we’ve seen the entirety of their species, or are there more somewhere out there?
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Yeah, sorry for the wall of text.

Norn can beat everyone up, so the smartest race is the one which is least annoying to them.

To clear up the confusion, in the scene there is an Asura researcher proposing her new hypothesis that head/body size ratio is directly proportional to intelligence (Complete with a new constant named after herself :p)

Listing off the races she concludes Charr must be second smartest as they have the second biggest head relative to their size; nothing to do with their technological advancement or behaviour

Specs.2195:

There are different types of intelligence and thinking – some of these already stated:

Asura: Very much like a modern 21st century country that is dependent on electricity / telecommunications to survive. The Asura are very smart, but their culture is based on using magic power to supplement their work. Could the Asura society survive without magic or have they become so dependent on it that they would intellectually collapse without it? How intelligent are you if you are helpless in a blackout?

Charr: Reminds me of the Renaissance / Industrial Revolution. Charr society is the opposite of the Asura – devoid of magic (or electricity) and dependent on raw physical technology. If they could use magic to supplement their machines, could they invent bigger and better things than the Asura? How much is the Charr society holding itself back refusing to use the magic that is a part of their world?

Okay, but who is telling the Charr to hold back? It’s like the kids in school who used to say, oh yea I got a C on this test, but that’s because I didn’t study, I would’ve had an A if I studied. Isn’t it ignorant on their part to not embrace the magic and advance themselves. And who says that Charr could even harness magical power even if they tried?

Flyfunner.2093:

Okay, but who is telling the Charr to hold back? It’s like the kids in school who used to say, oh yea I got a C on this test, but that’s because I didn’t study, I would’ve had an A if I studied. Isn’t it ignorant on their part to not embrace the magic and advance themselves. And who says that Charr could even harness magical power even if they tried?

Not ignorance. Politics. Currentlly they have one whole legion that embraces magic like they have legions that embrace technology, physical combat, and stealthiness. the problem is that legion is trying to force their ideals on everyone else when what they should be doing is vying for power the same way everyone else is doing. By building themselves up without trying to knock everyone else down so blatantly. The charr would be unstoppable with a strong khan ur and a flame legion that doesn’t need a diety.

When the flame legion wants to act like a big boy they’ll be invited back in to charr society where they can contribute to the charr warmachine, as a whole, with their magic prowess.

the real problem I see with this asuran method is that it factors in bodymass to brainsize ratio (as Zaxares said) and implements that into an ideal that only the asura subscribe to (as was also said), Eternal Alchemy.

Body mass to brain size being a huge factor against it’s validity.

The way I look at it is this.

80% of charr inventions are successful according to what we see in the game.

20% of asura inventions are successful according to what we see in the game.

It speaks for itself.