Guild Wars 2

Well we know that the iron legion imperator has the crown of the khan but his problem is that he has to prove that he deserves that title with a great feat. Eliminating the ghosts will have been a great feat but it did not happen. With the legions being at peace with all major races he can not prove himself in battle.
So what feat do you all think the iron legion imperator has to accomplish so he can become a khan?
My opinion he and his legion kills the elder dragon that created the dragonbrand.

Smodur does have the CLAW of the Khan-Ur, but I doubt he would actually lay claim to the title. He must know that if he makes such a claim, the other two Imperators (Bangar Ruinbringer of the Blood Legion, and Malice Swordshadow of the Ash Legion) would certainly contest him for it. (Especially Bangar. Lore says that he was the most resistant to the idea of making peace with Kryta. It’s probably not wise to antagonise him and possibly have the entire Blood Legion break away from the peace treaty with the humans.) That could throw the Legions into another civil war, something they can’t afford to have happen as long as the ghosts, Flame Legion and Branded continue to threaten Ascalon.

Any Khan needs to be able to exercise the strength to maintain their dominance despite continual challenges of authority. otherwise they just get added to the long list of would-be Khan-Urs.

Now Smodur may be able to do that, or he may not be able to. It would all depend on the specific details surrounding the circumstances and none of that has been written.

adormtil.1605:

Well we know that the iron legion imperator has the crown of the khan but his problem is that he has to prove that he deserves that title with a great feat. Eliminating the ghosts will have been a great feat but it did not happen. With the legions being at peace with all major races he can not prove himself in battle.
So what feat do you all think the iron legion imperator has to accomplish so he can become a khan?
My opinion he and his legion kills the elder dragon that created the dragonbrand.

Smodur has the *claw of the khan ur (not the crown). At any rate, that is a potent symbol of power.
However, even if eliminating the ghosts had been successful, it wouldn’t be so simple. Rytlock Brimstone would have been the one to do it—and Rytlock is in Blood Legion. Rytlock could easily have claimed that victory for Blood Legion, and the Blood Imperator could have used it to make Smodur look bad. (It’s Iron territory, yet Blood solved the problem—therefore, Blood should get the Khan-Urship)
Iron Legion has been the most openly involved with inter-racial affairs, because Ascalon is the territory nearest to other nations. However, that doesn’t mean that Iron Legion has the most military strength. We don’t know enough yet about Blood Legion and Ash Legion territory—or Blood and Ash Imperators—to determine that. Iron is spending a lot of its resources on fighting wars—against Flame Legion, Ghosts, Ogres, Separatists, and Kralkatorrik. That is very draining, and if Blood and Ash aren’t being drained the same way, they may be significantly stronger when the time comes for a Khan Ur to rise.
If Iron Legion alone kills Kralkatorrik, that may be enough of a victory for Smodur to become Khan Ur. However, I doubt that will happen. The other races, the Pact, and Blood/Ash legion will definitely be involved in the push against Kralkatorrik—they are just as invested in killing the dragon as Iron Legion is. Also, I doubt Iron Legion alone would be strong enough—again, they’re already fighting multiple fronts.

From what’s said of him in game and out of game lore, it’s possible that Smodur doesn’t want ANYONE to become the new Kahn-Ur. He thinks they’re better off as they are now, than they would be if they all had to follow one leader with one vision.

The Claw of the Kahn-Ur is apparently needed by anyone wanting to claim that title, and it’s suspected that he might destroy it for good now that he has it.

Palador.2170:

and it’s suspected that he might destroy it for good now that he has it.

That would be more than enough reason to start another civil war. The best strategy for Smodur’s ends is to just hold the relic aside indefinitely.

One thing’s for sure; Smodur is no fool. He may have the Claw, but as long as he makes no moves to claim the title, the other Imperators are okay with it. Iron Legion is not so much stronger than the other two as to survive a civil war, especially as there is a hefty Blood Legion contingent as well as an Ash Legion imperator already inside the Black Citadel. Claiming the title of Khan-Ur could be suicidal within an hour.

It also doesn’t really gain him anything to successfully claim the title. He already commands the most fortified place in Tyria and has Blood and Ash working with him willingly without having the power of a Khan-Ur (who, by the way, would also have to untie the Flame Legion with the other three). Nobody likes the Flame Legion right now, and they would have to be brought back for him to properly claim the position of Khan-Ur. It’s quite possible that there won’t be one for centuries to come.

Also possible that the destruction of the Flame Legion would remove the need for that technicality. If it’s needed at all; Flame excepted, the charr don’t think much of following obsolete traditional rules.

Any claim on the title of Khan-Ur will require a show of leadership to earn the respect of the three relevant legions. Smodur has a shot if he plays his cards right. He’s not in a position to vie for it now but he knows what he has to do to get there.

Also that’s a tribune of the Ash Legion, not the Imperator herself – fairly sure Swordshadow remains in Ash lands. Desertgrave and Brimstone are the highest ranking representatives of the other legion in the Black Citadel.

Yeah, Torga Desertgrave isn’t the Ash Imperator (that’s Malice Swordshadow). Each of the capitals of the three Legions has one or more Tribunes stationed there as attaches and advisors, in addition to commanding their Legion’s troops in the capital. Rytlock is the Blood Tribune assigned to the Black Citadel, but I’m fairly certain I’ve seen another Blood Tribune in the area before. I just can’t remember who it was.

The other Blood Tribune in the citadel is Fierhan Sparwind, standing just outside of Rytlock’s office. Thanks to personal story dialogues we also know that seniority is taken into account in order to determine the highest authority of a foreign Legion, specifically referring to the Ash ones, Torga (being the senior) and Makk (the other Ash tribune, who was recently promoted according to himself). We could assume that Rytlock is the “senior tribune” for Blood Legion in the Citadel.

Now, back to the Khan-Ur thing, there’s another interesting dialogue in the Black Citadel, about an Iron Legion tribune (Fume Brighteye) who is against the Treaty and also supposedly “bucking to be the next imperator”, so there may be trouble for Smodur in the future before he can even try to do something with the Claw.

KHAAAAAAAAN!!!!

My mistake, I did mean Ash Legion Tribune, not Imperator (wrote it at 2 AM, sue me).

Murethor.4935:

The other Blood Tribune in the citadel is Fierhan Sparwind, standing just outside of Rytlock’s office. Thanks to personal story dialogues we also know that seniority is taken into account in order to determine the highest authority of a foreign Legion, specifically referring to the Ash ones, Torga (being the senior) and Makk (the other Ash tribune, who was recently promoted according to himself). We could assume that Rytlock is the “senior tribune” for Blood Legion in the Citadel.

Now, back to the Khan-Ur thing, there’s another interesting dialogue in the Black Citadel, about an Iron Legion tribune (Fume Brighteye) who is against the Treaty and also supposedly “bucking to be the next imperator”, so there may be trouble for Smodur in the future before he can even try to do something with the Claw.

Technically, Sparwind is in charge now with Brimstone MIA. I wonder if that will play a part in the LS, and if the attitude is any different.

Serophous.9085:

Technically, Sparwind is in charge now with Brimstone MIA. I wonder if that will play a part in the LS, and if the attitude is any different.

That’s something I’d certainly like to see reflected in the game, but I’m not quite sure they’ll pay attention to all the details involved. They may just go straight to what’s key to the plot as a whole (but again, yes, it would be interesting to learn more about those charr lore not-so-little details).

Palador.2170:

From what’s said of him in game and out of game lore, it’s possible that Smodur doesn’t want ANYONE to become the new Kahn-Ur. He thinks they’re better off as they are now, than they would be if they all had to follow one leader with one vision.

The Claw of the Kahn-Ur is apparently needed by anyone wanting to claim that title, and it’s suspected that he might destroy it for good now that he has it.

This is my suspicion as well. Holding the Claw of the Khan-Ur gave him a big boost in authority, enough that he was able to push through the truce with Ebonhawke with relatively little resistance. However, I’d point out that formally each legion has control of foreign affairs as regard to its own territory, so that authority boost would be going towards silencing possible critics within Iron Legion rather than establishing dominance over the other Imperators.

Beyond that… I think Smodur is happier keeping the legions (there are apparently other legions beyond the Big Four, they’re just not as significant) as independent but allied nations without an overall commander (after all, even if he does manage to claim the Khan-Urship, what would happen when he dies? The next Khan-ur might not be Iron Legion, or the legions might turn back to fighting among one another creating a weakness that an external enemy might exploit, like what happened the last time a Khan-Ur died). In fact, I have a suspicion that Smodur’s hoped-for endgame for the truce is for Kryta and Ebonhawke to, for all intents and purposes, become an additional legion or two within this framework – rendering the Flame Legion redundant once and for all.

draxynnic.3719:

(there are apparently other legions beyond the Big Four, they’re just not as significant)

Is there a credible source on this?

From the Ecology of the Charr:

“There are smaller legions, both independent and absorbed within the larger legion banner, but few of them can prove their ancestry from a known cub of the Khan-Ur. Still, some bands occasionally try to justify their separate identity either through blood of[sic] military strength, claiming independence and raising a new banner. "

We don’t see any in-game, unless you count the Garbage Legion and I think even they acknowledge that it’s a joke, but they apparently do exist. Considering that the legions are, to the charr, essentially the same as kingdoms or nations are to humans, it’s likely that the reason we don’t see evidence of these lesser legions in-game is that their territories are elsewhere and that the bigger legions don’t request help from the lesser legions the way they do among each other (that, or members of the lesser legions are effectively absorbed into the military structure of the most appropriate High Legion when they’re on tour elsewhere. For instance, the I-just-made-this-up-on-the-spot Skull Legion might be such a lesser legion that is “absorbed within the larger legion banner” of the Blood Legion – among the Blood Legion the distinction between Skulls and true Bloods may be significant, but to anyone else the only distinction might be that Skull warbands like face paint and maybe have a few more necromancers. Meanwhile, the equally-made-up-on-the-spot Smoke Legion may eke out a nomadic lifestyle in a stretch of volcanic wasteland between Ash Legion proper territory and Hrangmer, maintaining at least an illusion of independence by playing the Ash and Flame Legions off of one another).

Tl;DR: They exist (unless this is another case of ‘if it’s not in-game, it could be changed without notice’) but they aren’t particularly important in the greater scheme of things and certainly aren’t important in playable Ascalon.