Guild Wars 2

I finally got my cooking to level 400 and a friend of mine asked me to cook a bunch of level 80 foods for him. So I went to the trading post to buy the ingredients. When I totalled the price for 4/5 of the things he was interested in, I found the finished product on the BLTC at a cheaper price than the ingredients. I then crafted one item to find that I don’t even get any experience for crafting max level items since I hit my crafting cap. This is stupid. There is no point to crafting since even with legendaries you can buy the finished product on the trading post. Really-what is the point. I mean, even gear is not the best stat level in the game, so I am completely baffled as to why I wasted my time and game money doing this.

It’s funny, I’ve been playing the game for less than two weeks and I already realized that crafting, the way it currently is, has no use other than to help level up your character a few levels. That’s it.

I’ve been selling all the mats I get, and with that money I buy the best consumables, armor and weapons for my level on the TP. After that, I still get plenty of $$$ left to put on my bank.

of course, if everyone thought like me, there would be no armor/weps on the TP as no one would craft. Luckily, there are players who craft just for the love of it.

Because Crafting in this game is totally broke, no critical chance to get better then your recipe, as it was in aion for example, no fun at all. I hope they will improve crafting in next patch, because for now, it just ridiculous ( little bit hazzard in crafting plz). Make crafting more advantageous for earning money

Sigh This topic comes up often. If you believe there is no purpose to crafting, don’t craft. The people who understand how to use crafting for gains will continue to make money selling crafted items to people who shout that crafting is not worth it because you can just buy things off the TP.

Fact: Profit opportunities exist within every crafting discipline.
Fact: Not every recipe is profitable
Fact: If you source your materials by buying at lowest seller’s price instead of working with buy orders, you are making your margins slimmer.

Suggestion: If you want to make money as a chef, I suggest taking a gander at the Unidentified Dye recipes that will allow you to source many of your ingredients via karma.

Related to the OPs coment about not getting XP at lvl 400 crafting: That’s there for a good reason, if you continued to get XP past max level crafting then you could very easily spam through lvls 1-80 in a single craft, and, worse, would quickly de-value skill points because post lvl 80, skill points = money. Crafting for xp above lvl 400 would be a fountain of xp and that would be a problem.

Salvo.8290:

When I totalled the price for 4/5 of the things he was interested in, I found the finished product on the BLTC at a cheaper price than the ingredients.

It sounds to me like your gripe isn’t really with crafting, but with the fluctuation of market trends/prices. If prices stayed constant, and assuming the player who crafted the finished item sourced the materials from the trading post, then the price of the finished product should always be higher than the price of the materials if a profit is to be made. But prices change constantly and not everyone buys their mats on the TP. I don’t think that’s any fault of the crafting system.

As far as the TP goes, I do wish more players understood how they are affecting the economy by flooding the market with cheap items. I’m seeing lots of low level gear selling for less than vendor prices. I’m really hoping the TP becomes more profitable at higher levels.

You will find people manipulating the market for needed crafting items in most of these games. Sad but true.

dinominator.9862:

As far as the TP goes, I do wish more players understood how they are affecting the economy by flooding the market with cheap items. I’m seeing lots of low level gear selling for less than vendor prices. I’m really hoping the TP becomes more profitable at higher levels.

Wanted to respond to this in specific: I make most of my money crafting on lvl 80 rares / exotics

The market is ever shifting, by if you pay attention and are patient, there is profit to be had in crafting.

Pro tip: Look at the volume of goods for sale vs buy orders before listing a bulk of goods. Crafting 40-50 rare pistols at a time because the margin of profit is 5s can seem like a good idea, but bulk listing them in a single sale order allows more people to stack up under you and makes them less likely to match your price…. know what the market will bear before you list items.

Also, always list for sale, if you sell to the highest buyer, you are shooting your profits in the foot before you start.

The market changes all the time – back in December, it was extremely profitable to craft rare armor to salvage for ecto. I think I made some 1200-1500 gold in about 3 weeks by doing that…

CassieGold.7460:

Sigh This topic comes up often. If you believe there is no purpose to crafting, don’t craft.

Its brought up often because players have seen well done crafting in other MMOs, and with GW2 end-product crafting is not necessary to gameplay. Its only interesting as a way to play the market instead of central to PvE and PvP success. Like was pointed out to you in this and other threads (because you make the same argument every time : p ), making small amounts of money on the AH has nothing to do with a successful implementation of crafting in an MMO.

So yes to the OP – it’s a sign that crafting is borked in GW2. Everyone can harvest everything means components are cheap so supply is way higher then demand for base components to finished product. Also as equally good armor and weaps can be earned with a few dungeon runs, it consigns crafters to hobby status only.

TP market is global, you have a lot more potential customers, but also have a lot more competitors. There isn’t any craftable item that is essential, but i find that the market provides a healthy return for my investment.

coppertopper.5620:

Its brought up often because players have seen well done crafting in other MMOs, and with GW2 end-product crafting is not necessary to gameplay. Its only interesting as a way to play the market instead of central to PvE and PvP success. Like was pointed out to you in this and other threads (because you make the same argument every time : p ), making small amounts of money on the AH has nothing to do with a successful implementation of crafting in an MMO.

Curious if you think more people would capatilize on the potions / utility consumables that each profession could craft if they were more well known / had more demand?

I have a guildmate that passes out potions at the beginning of every dungeon run, that’s part of what she does for the guild, and she keeps an artificer handy to make sure the guild bank is stocked with potions. I tend to pass out food buffs based on needs of the group, though most people just stock and run omnomberry bars.

Since the OPs comment was directed directly at Input costs vs cost of finished goods I figured the old hat statements are relevant, but in a broader discussion, crafting still has other things to offer.

Do you even know what you’re asking? ._.

From all the replies it seems that the only reason to craft in the game is to make money. This is not mentioned anywhere in the original post I made.

@CassieGold-yes, all of the things you outlined as facts are true…

If you continued to get XP past max level crafting then you could very easily spam through lvls 1-80 in a single craft, and, worse, would quickly de-value skill points because post lvl 80, skill points = money. Crafting for xp above lvl 400 would be a fountain of xp and that would be a problem.

This is the part I have a problem with. Although skill points are a currency, you cannot buy/sell them or items purchased with them on the BLTC so I do not understand how you could say that equals money. In addition, the materials you use to craft consume money to purchase (if you don’t harvest them-and time if you do) so I do not see how you could spam to level 80…especially if the experience gained for crafting 80 lvl items was low but not negligible.

A DIY person creates things themselves for personal accomplishment and saving money, but I understand that the other side of the coin is the ability to make money.

@dominator—I understand fluctuating prices, but some differences are excessive. If someone sells for cheaper they just accept a lower profit.

@seraki—I don’t think market manipulation really has anything to do with it. I think the BLTC is actually a really good system for in game trading.

You could play the market like a day trader, but I would rather play other aspects of the game. That is a compliment seeing as how people can actually play the game market successfully.

@coppertopper—You understood when you said that crafting is not necessary in any way. In fact everything you said I agree with. It is just something else to do with no point unless you are trying to make money.

I have only taken basic economics courses and with 6 months into the game I thought the supply and demand would stabilize a bit more, but with the differences I see, it has not. It might have something to do with the high availability of the mats through harvesting nodes that pushes crafted materials to prices below the ingredients because people will harvest rather than buy.

I still stand by my original post, where I do not see a need to craft…and you can make money buying and selling on the trading post without crafting so that issue is really separate.

Salvo.8290:

From all the replies it seems that the only reason to craft in the game is to make money. This is not mentioned anywhere in the original post I made.

@CassieGold-yes, all of the things you outlined as facts are true…

If you continued to get XP past max level crafting then you could very easily spam through lvls 1-80 in a single craft, and, worse, would quickly de-value skill points because post lvl 80, skill points = money. Crafting for xp above lvl 400 would be a fountain of xp and that would be a problem.

This is the part I have a problem with. Although skill points are a currency, you cannot buy/sell them or items purchased with them on the BLTC so I do not understand how you could say that equals money. In addition, the materials you use to craft consume money to purchase (if you don’t harvest them-and time if you do) so I do not see how you could spam to level 80…especially if the experience gained for crafting 80 lvl items was low but not negligible.

Emphasis added, but you can sell the things you make with skill points on the BLTC. All of the Mystic Weapons that require 50 skill points to forge can be sold on the BLTC, somepeople use Skill Points to promote Cores to Lodestones and sell those for a profit on the BLTC…. that’s where the Skill Points = Money comes in.

There are, I think, two reasons that there is little gold to be made crafting in GW2.

First, there is little barrier to entry in terms of effort invested. The worst is probably cooking, but even that took me only part of a Saturday, discovering things naturally and never mass crafting anything. For the other professions, it takes what, a couple hours and a few gold following an easy guide? By contrast, in Dofus (another MMO), maxing Farmer/Baker involved HOURS and HOURS of doing nothing but swinging a scythe until you were too loaded to carry more grain, running to the mill, waiting forever to grind the flour, running to the bakery, waiting forever for the bread to bake, and then doing it all over and over. Oh and investment in buying gear to let you carry more weight than a sane toon would ever need.

Second, the rewards are much better from leveling a craft than practicing it. You get a lot of XP for levelling a craft, and there is no extra cost for levelling all the crafts. These factors combine to give the economy a surplus of crafters who mastered their craft for “free”, as a side effect of the real benefit (XP).

In my example with Dofus, bakers made bread, which sped up your out-of combat health recovery. Without bread, you had to waste time between fights, so everyone wanted bread. For most people, it was well worth paying a modest wage to a baker rather than level one themselves. It was possible to “earn the right to make money” by putting in the long-term labor.

That’s just not the case in GW2, because there are so many extra “master craftsmen” available. Any shortage of crafting labor can quickly sort itself out. The people who do make a little coin on crafting don’t do it by saving other people the hassle of crafting or the hassle of mastering a craft — they do it by saving other people the hassle of looking up a recipe on the wiki, pricing the mats, and waiting for the “buy” orders to be filled.

Having a Master crafting profession does make the option of assembling the parts for a thing you want slightly more convenient, and opens an extra door to playing the TP if that’s your thing, but the real benefit you got was the XP. And the fun factor…

In my case, when the crafting dailies hit, I play dress-up with my cook’s outfit, summon my sous chef so I can pretend he does something, throw down a roast pig for the sous chef to pretend to take care of, make four batches of mango pie, and put it all away. So worth the $8.75! Later on, I’ll pass out the pies to guildies who aren’t running their food buff in a dungeon. “Chef” is part of my main toon’s identity, and I like it. Discovering all the recipes was fun too, and I can’t wait for new seasonal content.

CassieGold.7460:

Curious if you think more people would capatilize on the potions / utility consumables that each profession could craft if they were more well known / had more demand?

I do think food buffs and potions are not widely used/explained to new players. But again, as easy as it is to max out a crafter, they are plentiful and cheap on the TP. And these seem like the type of things crafters should make money on as they are highly useful in all aspects of the game. Another failure on Anets implementation of crafting, which could have gone to make the economy in general more robust and interesting.

CassieGold.7460:

I have a guildmate that passes out potions at the beginning of every dungeon run, that’s part of what she does for the guild, and she keeps an artificer handy to make sure the guild bank is stocked with potions. I tend to pass out food buffs based on needs of the group, though most people just stock and run omnomberry bars.

Well the same vendors that sell the dungeon gear also sell those potions for 1 dungeon token each. Also, they drop frequently now from mobs, so once again the value of crafters is voided. And food can be bought from the TP for the same value as it cost to make it – so sell harvestables and benefit from others wasted efforts at maxing out Chef is the rule once again.

CassieGold.7460:

Since the OPs comment was directed directly at Input costs vs cost of finished goods I figured the old hat statements are relevant, but in a broader discussion, crafting still has other things to offer.

His comments go to the heart of the problem – end game gear that is crafted is done so at a loss in most cases (even legendaries as was pointed out by a response to you earlier in this post) vs just selling harvestables and buying finished gear off the TP. With components being harvestable by everyone, max crafters are a dime a dozen and Anet did not give crafted gear any special qualities to make it desirable over dungeon or random dropped gear.

The thing is I will always do crafting in games. In GW2 its easy and fun. But making it a vital part of the economy and gameplay – that is not the case here. Anet could make some changes and really enliven the game to people like me. But it seems ‘make everything accessible and easy huuurrraaay!!’ is more the order of the day, even if it affects the game negatively.

Salvo.8290:

I finally got my cooking to level 400 and a friend of mine asked me to cook a bunch of level 80 foods for him. So I went to the trading post to buy the ingredients. When I totalled the price for 4/5 of the things he was interested in, I found the finished product on the BLTC at a cheaper price than the ingredients. I then crafted one item to find that I don’t even get any experience for crafting max level items since I hit my crafting cap. This is stupid. There is no point to crafting since even with legendaries you can buy the finished product on the trading post. Really-what is the point. I mean, even gear is not the best stat level in the game, so I am completely baffled as to why I wasted my time and game money doing this.

Many people feel the same, that the crafting is not fun because its not rewarding. But i doubt Anets development of their crafting system will ever change to be what the player wants because its never even been discussed weather we like it or not.

I craft food items for myself – magic find in particular, from materials that I’ve found in my travels, But, my travels represent many hundreds of hours playing… So I don’t feel the real cost of what the materials might be worth… should I bother to check on the TP.

no problem with crafting no longer giving xp once you hit 400, I do however have a problem with crafting NEW recipes no longer giving xp. if i figure out a combo i haven’t done before, i should get xp for it

and yeah, i’ve made my share of gold by crafting

Crafting doesn’t have any significant function in this game, other than to amuse hobbyists.

Many claim to make significant profits selling crafted items, but consider total cost of getting to lvl 400 crafting (buying [and not selling] materials, buying recipes, time spent not grinding other sources of income). There is a significant investment one needs to make back as soon as they hit max crafting level.

Since you can net more playing with market fluctuations and selling raw materials, investing in crafting is questionable at best. Creating special items for your character seems a logical use, but since one can buy everything they need at the TP it’s hard to justify why you should craft to get the same item.

Unless ANet adds significant Account or Character Bound items to craft, you’re better off following these steps:

1. Avoid the crafting money-sink.
2. Sell everything you find.
3. Use that money to buy whatever you need.

CassieGold.7460:

Fact: Profit opportunities exist within every crafting discipline.
Fact: Not every recipe is profitable
Fact: If you source your materials by buying at lowest seller’s price instead of working with buy orders, you are making your margins slimmer.

Suggestion: If you want to make money as a chef, I suggest taking a gander at the Unidentified Dye recipes that will allow you to source many of your ingredients via karma.

This is good advice… although you MUST know what the ingredients are worth. I was looking at the unidentified gray dye recipe back when the price of it was irrationally high, and then I priced out coriander, and it turned out to be more profitable to just sell the coriander.

The profitable recipes settle out to be close to the cost of their components pretty quickly, so you have to keep an eye on the market and know what people are looking for. I craft to get my 10 levels between 70 and 80 and to be able to make my own level 80 exotics. It might be more efficient to just sell all my crafting materials and buy them with the gold I make, but I get a certain amount of satisfaction out of making it myself.

Cooking was the only crafting I did for fun. I had a blast clearing out my discovery pane with my chef and she ended up with 97% map completion in the process. I’m fairly sure I have every discoverable recipe currently in the game discovered. I think I’m missing some karma bought recipes though. Cooking gave me a reason to go to different zones in search of ingredients, and to hit up the heart vendors for recipes and ingredients. I liked puzzling out the recipes too, although towards the end I cheated a little because I didn’t have enough of the right kinds of snowflakes for the ice cream recipes and I didn’t want to spend a bunch of money guessing.

Pandemoniac.4739:

CassieGold.7460:

Suggestion: If you want to make money as a chef, I suggest taking a gander at the Unidentified Dye recipes that will allow you to source many of your ingredients via karma.

This is good advice… although you MUST know what the ingredients are worth. I was looking at the unidentified gray dye recipe back when the price of it was irrationally high, and then I priced out coriander, and it turned out to be more profitable to just sell the coriander.

The profitable recipes settle out to be close to the cost of their components pretty quickly, so you have to keep an eye on the market and know what people are looking for. I craft to get my 10 levels between 70 and 80 and to be able to make my own level 80 exotics. It might be more efficient to just sell all my crafting materials and buy them with the gold I make, but I get a certain amount of satisfaction out of making it myself.

Yeah, you’d think the grey dye would be where the money is at, but when I made that comment, the margin was actually favorable for Red dyes…. of course, someone says this on a forum and instantly a dozen people go out and ‘adjust’ the market by filling the demand.

Especially this month where masterwork and rare dyes count for the monthly :P

I had a similar experience with chef, it’s what hauled my human thief out to fireheart rise, somewhere that personal story would never have taken her. But I needed peaches Was great fun, adventuring just to source the mats.