Guild Wars 2

Cynz.9437:

rng in this game (simplified):
- a random row of values, let’s take numbers(for example 1 100 25 9 89 76 1002 etc.), is attached to character and get’s reset at XY time (daily reset for example); mostlikely you get another row attached after reset
- some numbers represent getting precursor (for example 1002), some numbers represent bad luck basically (for example any number from 1 to 100)
- when you throw stuff in MF, the game goes through function and reads the number from the rng number row that is attached to your account; if the number is right you get precursor, if number is wrong you don’t get it

that is the reason why some ppl get it from 10 tries and some need to do 2000 tries before they get one just because that “lucky” number is located for some people at begin of the row and for some at the end of the row

that said, if you really want good chance for precursor from MF, save as many weapons/mats you need to make one so you can basically do as many tries as possible in short period of time (because of the reset)

keep in mind that that so called rng is obviously affected by different variables as well; for example if you farm too much on one map you get something called loot decay but that is different topic

side note: rng doesn’t really exist in currently used technologies

Posting this as some sort of KNOWN absolute fact is very misleading. Unless you are secretly a Dev for Anet that knows about the programming of the GW2 Server side code, this is just a guess on your part.

I will certainly agree that HOW base seed RNGs are generate for use by the GW2 Server code MAY be subject to some sort of “reset”. This would NOT be (intentionally) tied to any one character or account, but would be a generic, across the board RNG issue. I also don’t disagree that current technology lacks the ability to pull TRUE random number generation off, but that is an issue at the numeric co-processor level of the CPU being used to run the servers and would in no way automatically translate to one character being more lucky than another. That does NOT mean that how this is used by the GW2 Server programming itself could not be effecting the actual RNG in the game.

Brother Grimm.5176:

Cynz.9437:

rng in this game (simplified):
- a random row of values, let’s take numbers(for example 1 100 25 9 89 76 1002 etc.), is attached to character and get’s reset at XY time (daily reset for example); mostlikely you get another row attached after reset
- some numbers represent getting precursor (for example 1002), some numbers represent bad luck basically (for example any number from 1 to 100)
- when you throw stuff in MF, the game goes through function and reads the number from the rng number row that is attached to your account; if the number is right you get precursor, if number is wrong you don’t get it

that is the reason why some ppl get it from 10 tries and some need to do 2000 tries before they get one just because that “lucky” number is located for some people at begin of the row and for some at the end of the row

that said, if you really want good chance for precursor from MF, save as many weapons/mats you need to make one so you can basically do as many tries as possible in short period of time (because of the reset)

keep in mind that that so called rng is obviously affected by different variables as well; for example if you farm too much on one map you get something called loot decay but that is different topic

side note: rng doesn’t really exist in currently used technologies

Posting this as some sort of KNOWN absolute fact is very misleading. Unless you are secretly a Dev for Anet that knows about the programming of the GW2 Server side code, this is just a guess on your part.

I will certainly agree that HOW base seed RNGs are generate for use by the GW2 Server code MAY be subject to some sort of “reset”. This would NOT be (intentionally) tied to any one character or account, but would be a generic, across the board RNG issue. I also don’t disagree that current technology lacks the ability to pull TRUE random number generation off, but that is an issue at the numeric co-processor level of the CPU being used to run the servers and would in no way automatically translate to one character being more lucky than another. That does NOT mean that how this is used by the GW2 Server programming itself could not be effecting the actual RNG in the game.

i didn’t say it is known absolute fact, i am sorry if it looked like this (english isn’t my 1st language) but i would assume it works like that for reasons:

- loot in this game works different than in classic rpg; in classic rpg loot is carried by mob basically, in gw2 however you don’t need to be in party, loot isn’t shared nor amount is limited, to it is rather safe to assume that loot is bound to account

- i am not anet dev (devs are designers, not programmers btw) but during my study at university we had to programm a game (hence bit of exp) and unless gw2 uses some extrenal RNG, RNG in this game doesn’t really exist due to technical limitations (which you can read about if you are really interested)

of course it is all speculations unless we get to see code (which obviously won’t happen)

i am still the opinion, that the best bet (but not sure) is to pile up as many weapons/mats needed for precursor and get as many tries as possible in one sesssion

Cynz.9437:

- i am not anet dev (devs are designers, not programmers btw) but during my study at university we had to programm a game (hence bit of exp) and unless gw2 uses some extrenal RNG, RNG in this game doesn’t really exist due to technical limitations (which you can read about if you are really interested)

If the game you programmed at university used the method you proposed, then i’m afraid you picked likely one of the worst rng – emulating systems i have ever heard about. Seriously, it is that bad. Not only there is no reason to attach rng seeds to every player, instead of using a single seed for the whole game, but it also produces less randomized results, and costs a lot more in game resources.

This thread has certainly provided interesting reading – some of us here inherently understand the problems of trying to generate a ‘RNG’ system.

This is why basic things like the C++ function: rand(value,seed) are often not good enough to be classified as random enough for many real world applications (esp for security keys).

It would be great if the devs at least have a look at this thread.

They don’t need to give us how it works or tell us anything . I certainly would be more comfortable knowing the RNG was based on an external factor rather than a simple seeding based RNG or tied to a character or an account property. An external RNG service is more likely to not be insider tampered either for their own gain as it is more random.

We already know WvW Ques are not Ques – who knows the Devs may even improve the RNG algorithm in GW2 over time based on suggestions in this thread.
Some people do seem more lucky than others (2 precursors in one week as a loot drop – yes it has happened to a single person and they are not hardcore farming, the odds of this should be astronomically low) – that’s why we wonder is it based on some character trait or something.

I even hear the odd report if you don’t play for a while and come back your loot significantly improves for a few days. All based around the RNG (like mystic forge).

In the same way I have had more luck getting mystic clovers if I make one attempt /day (much higher than I should). If I try to make more than one set of clovers per day my success drastically decreases.

The chance of a player seeing a glitch from a psuedo-random sequence is far, far less than the chance of a player seeing a precursor come out of the forge. Also, each player essentially takes a random sample from the server’s pseudo-random sequence as (many) other events are taken from that sequence over the sample period, randomly interspersed amongst any one player’s sample.

I wonder how many people here think/believe that online casinos actually give truely random chance to win?

Pyrotek.8730:

I wonder how many people here think/believe that online casinos actually give truely random chance to win?

I wonder why you think that this question has anything to do with the topic.

Let me re-phrase.

MF is like an online casino. People are encouraged to spend money, put something valuable in, with the hope of winning something better/more valuable.

Is it truely random? Who controls and regulates to ensure it is?

Bullkitten. Online casinos have incentive to make the system not so random, because they deal in real money, so any “tweaks” to the system that make the money flow from players to the casino is their gain. There’s no such incentive for Anet. If they decide that people get too much stuff from MF, they can always just decrease “upgrade to next category” chances. They do not need to “cheat” in such a system at all.
Now, you have to understand one thing: neither of those systems has any incentive to make the RNG uneven to different players, or to introduce any patterns. Problem with patterns is that if they exist, they will eventually be found out and exploited. Any form of exploitation of the system is a pure loss for a casino, and a huge balance problem for an MMO game.

So again, i have to wonder why you thought that bringing up casinos in this discussion was relevant to anything.

There is one other important factor here to remember online casinos have to prove a win/loss ratio for the jackpot.

This is why you will find for slots these are regulated both for physical machines and virtual online machines.

I suppose if you want to be pedantic the mystic forge is chaotic, not, random. It’s not going to make a practical difference.

My appologies!
I’ll retract… just feels like it to me, throw something of value in hoping for a random outcome of more worth feels like a gamble to me.

I just hope that MF isnt truly random. Unpredictable yes, but truly random to me means my chance of getting something decent is very low, and remains so, however much effort I put into the game. My luck in these things tends to be awful. :-(