Guild Wars 2

Well I guess that’s true, coming up with something that’s not to easy is the tricky part. I just don’t see much “prestige” in something that is so heavily luck based. That’s like someone who wins a slot machine being proud of their accomplishments. They are happy they won, and others may be envious, but I would hardly call it an accomplishment worthy of being proud.

It’s examples like Reloading that make me dislike the current system.

Miku.6297:

Well I guess that’s true, coming up with something that’s not to easy is the tricky part. I just don’t see much “prestige” in something that is so heavily luck based. That’s like someone who wins a slot machine being proud of their accomplishments. They are happy they won, and others may be envious, but I would hardly call it an accomplishment worthy of being proud.

Fair enough, and in this case prestige may be the wrong word, but you get my meaning.

The other side of the coin is that there may be a certain percentage of players that don’t care at all if the skins are rare or not, they look cool and they want them for their characters regardless of how many other people are walking around with them.

I’m old school, my first RPG’s were paper and pencil. In those games if you wanted Legendary loot you worked for it, you fought for it and more often then not, you died for it.

I read a lot of books in the Fantasy genre and when a character aquires a Legendary weapon it is usually one okittend. Rarity and power. Everyone knows the sword Excaliber. You may not even know the story but you’ve heard the name. THAT is a Legendary weapon.

GuildWars has the most ‘RPG’ feel to it the most of the other MMO’RPG’s I’ve played and I think with Legendaries they wanted to capture that feeling. Now in an MMO it is understandable that you just can’t have one of a kind items, you can’t even have items that are truly rare. You need to make an item that FEELS Legendary yet at the same time everyone single customer has a CHANCE to obtain.

I give Anet props for their attempt at that so far, because it is no easy task. They get respect from me for trying to capture the feel of a truly Legendary weapon. It has made a lot of people frustrated, I no doubt TEARS have been shed over the process.

True reward can only be obtained through true risk. More and more video games are loosing that aspect because more and more players do not want to feel anything negative when they are playing a game. They dont’ want to feel like it is ‘work’, they don’t want it to be ‘hard’ or ‘frustrating’ they just want it to be fun.

It seems less and less people derive fun from over coming ‘hard’ and ‘frustrating’ and yes that means sometimes you loose to those things. More and more players are demanding games that are impossible to loose. No ‘Gave Over’ screens, no ‘You Loose’, messages.

And hey, to each their own. I suspect at least for some time to come this trend will continue. More and more games will loose the opportunity to feel anything negative like frustration or loss.

I’m not going to be the one to tell anyone else how to enjoy a game. I’m the type of player that likes to slog through the mud. I want to have to kick and scream and cry to beat that boss and get my loot. I want to come out of that dungeon or that jumping puzzle and I want your to know where I have been by the stains on my armor and the blood on my gauntlets. And if that blood isn’t some of my own as well then it is not a tale worth telling.

And I don’t want a Legendary system where everyone has one. Even if that means I’m one of the ones who doesn’t.

But hey, YMMV.

CryxTryx.9208:

I’m old school, my first RPG’s were paper and pencil. In those games if you wanted Legendary loot you worked for it, you fought for it and more often then not, you died for it.
[…]
True reward can only be obtained through true risk.

This is along the lines of what I for one am asking for and relying on luck is antithetical to that.

CryxTryx.9208:

More and more video games are loosing that aspect because more and more players do not want to feel anything negative when they are playing a game. They dont’ want to feel like it is ‘work’, they don’t want it to be ‘hard’ or ‘frustrating’ they just want it to be fun.

But relying on luck is part of that.

morrolan.9608:

CryxTryx.9208:

I’m old school, my first RPG’s were paper and pencil. In those games if you wanted Legendary loot you worked for it, you fought for it and more often then not, you died for it.
[…]
True reward can only be obtained through true risk.

This is along the lines of what I for one am asking for and relying on luck is antithetical to that.

To me it is just one way of doing it. And as I said above, it is one way of doing it with out certain players feeling like the content isn’t designed for them.

I believe Anet chose lucky because ‘grind’ and ‘skill’ were off the table. By community choice mind you. As long as everyone feels they have a ‘chance’ it is harder to say; “This isn’t for me, I can’t do this.”

If the Legendary skins were gated behind skill, or grind, or groups, there will always be a group that will say, “This content isn’t for me, I can’t do it.”

So again, Luck was chosen. It is probably the least ‘fun’ of the gates, but it doesn’t specfically exclude any group and it does keep the items rare. “All for fun and none for all.” This is what happens when you try to please everyone.

Then there is the fact that Skill Gates are the hardest things to create. To create difficulty with out creating tedium is incredibly difficult. The conent has to be punishing, but not too punishing. It has to require timing but allow for latency. Take a look through World of Warcraft’s boss encounters. They try very hard to make them challenging and it is not an easy thing to do.

Encounters are reduced to ‘Dont’ stand in the red circles’. There is a boss that you have to drag through a lava stream every so often otherwise his buffs become to big. Ect, ect. This is a whole other topic, but suffice to say making something challenging skill wise is a lot eaiser said then done.

What this really comes down to is that we have a current system in place that I believe is doing what is intended successfully. Can it be improved? Yes. Everyone can agree on that but no one can agree on how.

I don’t expect to be able to think of some magical answer that I and so far this collective group has not been able to think up.

I hope that they do, but I don’t expect it of them.

CryxTryx.9208:

I’m old school, my first RPG’s were paper and pencil. In those games if you wanted Legendary loot you worked for it, you fought for it and more often then not, you died for it.

Gosh you must not have played DnD drinkers version! There legendary loot is more like that first shot!

CryxTryx.9208:

True reward can only be obtained through true risk. More and more video games are loosing that aspect because more and more players do not want to feel anything negative when they are playing a game. They dont’ want to feel like it is ‘work’, they don’t want it to be ‘hard’ or ‘frustrating’ they just want it to be fun.

Risk vs defeating a challenge, risk fighting for your life; not risk I stand in town swimming in the mystic potty filled with the tears of the many zomoross has robbed.

But I do agree with you, we are losing much of the challenging elements of games like this. The world event bosses are like big big piñatas that roar and then drop their candy (even though most of it is junk). I’d love to see some challenge!

CryxTryx.9208:

I’m not going to be the one to tell anyone else how to enjoy a game. I’m the type of player that likes to slog through the mud. I want to have to kick and scream and cry to beat that boss and get my loot. I want to come out of that dungeon or that jumping puzzle and I want your to know where I have been by the stains on my armor and the blood on my gauntlets. And if that blood isn’t some of my own as well then it is not a tale worth telling.

And I don’t want a Legendary system where everyone has one. Even if that means I’m one of the ones who doesn’t.

But hey, YMMV.

I totally agree, with you! I would love to slog through the mud, fight to the bitter end and barely come out on top of the fight… But that’s a fight, not a battle with the mystic potty with literally NO amount of skill.

No I agree, the current system doesn’t involve skill. But many people don’t want that either. There is risk though. You risk your hard earned gold every time you make an attempt at the forge.

Now that you guys got me thinking about this though I’ve actually come up with some pretty neat ideas as to how I would do the legendary system. I might get around to fleshing them out and throw them on the suggestion board sometime.

There would be risk, there would be skill I’ve even thought up a ‘push your luck’ aspect.

The even the little that I have already thought up would require a tremendous amount of developing resources to impliment. It would require a new jumping puzzle, multiple dungeons and and at least 4 or 5 new skins or every weapon category…

That is just crazy. Well, you have my account name. If you want to help me get t3 cultural armor, feel free to help out.

Miku.6297:

CryxTryx.9208:

I’m old school, my first RPG’s were paper and pencil. In those games if you wanted Legendary loot you worked for it, you fought for it and more often then not, you died for it.

Gosh you must not have played DnD drinkers version! There legendary loot is more like that first shot!

Heh. MMOs – and in fact most computer RPGs in general – are what we used to call “Monty Haul” games. Named after the host of the game show “Let’s Make a Deal” who used to approach random audience members and hand them money for no reason…

In a Monty Haul game, the person running it hands out treasure at a whim – piles of gold and jewels, handfuls of magical items from the Dungeon Master’s Guide treasure tables, even artifacts and relics… but the problem is, when every player has a castle full of gold and everything he wears, carries, and fights with is magical, the players don’t really care much about it any more. They walk into the Magic Shop and exchange their empty wands for new ones, sell the pile of magical swords they looted from the mooks in the last dungeon, etc.

What should be a rare and valuable treasure is just another bit of trash to sell at the pawn shop for a quick buck. And that’s what loot is like in these games. The only time I really use the equipment that drops during combat is when I have a new toon and I’m replacing the starting equipment. After a few levels I have enough money to buy whatever I need from the TP so loot drops become a question of, is it worth enough to sell on the TP, do I vendor it instead, or break it for a salvage achievement?

Throwing more loot at the players just continues the problem, and raises their expectations. After rare and super-rare, you introduce ultra-rare and uber-rare loot, so players who already have all super-rares can get the rush when they loot something better. And with a generation or two raised on games where this kind of thing is normal and expected, you can’t go backwards and restrict the loot so that rares are actually rare, and anything better than that is special and valuable.

I don’t see this situation as ever getting any better, only worse.

tolunart.2095:

Miku.6297:

CryxTryx.9208:

I’m old school, my first RPG’s were paper and pencil. In those games if you wanted Legendary loot you worked for it, you fought for it and more often then not, you died for it.

Gosh you must not have played DnD drinkers version! There legendary loot is more like that first shot!

Heh. MMOs – and in fact most computer RPGs in general – are what we used to call “Monty Haul” games. Named after the host of the game show “Let’s Make a Deal” who used to approach random audience members and hand them money for no reason…

In a Monty Haul game, the person running it hands out treasure at a whim – piles of gold and jewels, handfuls of magical items from the Dungeon Master’s Guide treasure tables, even artifacts and relics… but the problem is, when every player has a castle full of gold and everything he wears, carries, and fights with is magical, the players don’t really care much about it any more. They walk into the Magic Shop and exchange their empty wands for new ones, sell the pile of magical swords they looted from the mooks in the last dungeon, etc.

What should be a rare and valuable treasure is just another bit of trash to sell at the pawn shop for a quick buck. And that’s what loot is like in these games. The only time I really use the equipment that drops during combat is when I have a new toon and I’m replacing the starting equipment. After a few levels I have enough money to buy whatever I need from the TP so loot drops become a question of, is it worth enough to sell on the TP, do I vendor it instead, or break it for a salvage achievement?

Throwing more loot at the players just continues the problem, and raises their expectations. After rare and super-rare, you introduce ultra-rare and uber-rare loot, so players who already have all super-rares can get the rush when they loot something better. And with a generation or two raised on games where this kind of thing is normal and expected, you can’t go backwards and restrict the loot so that rares are actually rare, and anything better than that is special and valuable.

I don’t see this situation as ever getting any better, only worse.

I agree with most of what you said until the end. We can go back. Do I see it happening? Unlikely. Why? Because it will take bravery and risk.

All it would take though is an MMO that is not so afraid of its fan base to impliment something that might be contriversal at first. The other key is if you are going to do it, you need to do it well.

At work we have a sign on the wall that says “But we’ve always done it this way.” There is a big red circle with a line through it.

I’ve crafted two Legendaries so far, both with bought precursors (I’m not much of a gambler).

I suggest:
1. up precursor drop by 10x (or so) to bring the price down or likelihood of getting one
2. up the units of non-buyable items (WvW / dungeon)
3. crafted weapon is account bound (soul bound on use)

Three EASY fixes that require very little programming.

You get:
1. takes more skill less gold
2. still has the challenge of the original plus more
3. you HAVE to do the grind if you want it, so it’s a real sign of achievement when you see someone with it.

Making a collection of achievements that are necessary would be nice, but I’m looking at this from the perspective of the developers. Making a whole new way of attaining Legendaries opens up the can of bugs… remember the first precursors?

Updated again: Acquired Dusk. Again through Mystic Forge. Picture included. (Yes i will update this every time i find one.)

@ OP: congrats I guess

I still think there is a hidden “luck” flag for characters in this game, because I’ve NEVER had anywhere near that kind of luck(I hardly even get dye drops anymore).

Allisa Wonderland.8192:

I’ve crafted two Legendaries so far, both with bought precursors (I’m not much of a gambler).

I suggest:
1. up precursor drop by 10x (or so) to bring the price down or likelihood of getting one
2. up the units of non-buyable items (WvW / dungeon)
3. crafted weapon is account bound (soul bound on use)

Three EASY fixes that require very little programming.

You get:
1. takes more skill less gold
2. still has the challenge of the original plus more
3. you HAVE to do the grind if you want it, so it’s a real sign of achievement when you see someone with it.

Making a collection of achievements that are necessary would be nice, but I’m looking at this from the perspective of the developers. Making a whole new way of attaining Legendaries opens up the can of bugs… remember the first precursors?

Na, see upping the precusror drop by that much runs the risk of Legendaries loosing the rarity they currently hold.

If you up the precursor drop that much then I would say make precursors account bound. No more TP precursors.

zBluRrYz.1347:

Updated again: Acquired Dusk. Again through Mystic Forge. Picture included. (Yes i will update this every time i find one.)

Rares or exotics?

CryxTryx.9208:

zBluRrYz.1347:

Updated again: Acquired Dusk. Again through Mystic Forge. Picture included. (Yes i will update this every time i find one.)

Rares or exotics?

Rares, always

just threw 164 rare daggers after reading this…

I think this thread needs more attention, not due to the op’s stupid amounts of luck, but b/c he’s sharing said luck. I’m not kidding. This week I did fractals again. For 4 months, I haven’t gotten a ring or a skin and most of the times I got 0-1 rare. My 5 run yielded me 3 rings, 2 skins, at least 30 rares, a few acct bound exotics, and my very first precursor, dawn (from trash mob in char fractal). I’m now very close to actually being able to afford the precursor I was going for! Spark.

The 1st precursor was after 2.3k hours (seems longer).

Any method of doing this you would suggest? How much money did you start with? Just ordered a bunch of rare rifles from the tp because you made me feel lucky.

Khyber.2693:

Any method of doing this you would suggest? How much money did you start with? Just ordered a bunch of rare rifles from the tp because you made me feel lucky.

I started with 40g, bought 8 rare Shortbows and got the Lover on the first try. The addiction started

1500 GS and he got nothing and lost 150g

Its all about Luck….

And i do not recommend to waste ur money

Hmm, the only obstacle in my way of getting the Legendary (Twilight) is the actual pre-cursor. Seeing all this makes me want to try my luck with that kitten toilet in Lions Arch as well.

On second thought, knowing my luck, I’ll end up broke and with nothing xD

haha this is pretty ridiculous.

after viewing this thread, i wonder how many went back to test their luck with the mystic forge after vowing never to return again. XDDD

akamon.2769:

haha this is pretty ridiculous.

after viewing this thread, i wonder how many went back to test their luck with the mystic forge after vowing never to return again. XDDD

Another 100g flushed down the toilet. I hate threads like these.

just saw this topic right after i found dawn in a normal chest in malchors leap went and bought 28g worth of rifles and got the hunter on my 9th try

Scavenger hunt will be here soon! Anet have said so. They haven’t started on it but they have done some seriously thinking about it. They have done some serious pondering about it. They have, oh look over there, its a pig flying!

After reading this thread,and my guild mate getting 3 precursors on the same night I tried my luck and got Zap,but the money I made with that is long gone because I tried to get The Hunter afterwards…silly me.

@Edit

PS: It was an emotional rollercoaster,first; happy,then very sad QQ

Luck is a heathen’s way to describe god’s blessing. The time is nigh, repent, sinners!

Just kidding.

I seriously hope Arenanet is monitoring this thread to show how utterly stupid RNG is for something like a legendary. If this guy is able to acquire this many precursors and eventually sell them on the TP and make hundreds or a few thousand gold without breaking much of a sweat…Come on…

You guys failed so hard with this its hilarious. The majority of the community spends a thousand hours playing the game, not one precursor drop. Or they throw all of their gold into the forge, buying hundreds upon hundreds of rares and exotics, not one precursor. Yet this guy can get multiple? And now is making huge coin?

Unbelievably fail.

somsom.5201:

@ OP: congrats I guess

I still think there is a hidden “luck” flag for characters in this game, because I’ve NEVER had anywhere near that kind of luck(I hardly even get dye drops anymore).

I agree. And part of me thinks that if you are a frequent forum poster…they lookat your demeanor and attitude toward the game and crap on you accordingly.

That would be very low of them, but hey I wouldn’t put it past a developer. They are human and people are known to be corrupt.

I think at this point Im going to log in tonight, dump all of my gold (about 120 gold) into rares and into the forge…and this will be make or break for me, for good. If I get nothing, I am done. If I get precursor, I continue. simple as that. Too many solid alternatives out there for me to keep checking this website for changes to the game that MIGHT lure me back into playing it full time.

UrMom.4205:

question…will the mystic forge take 4 of the exact same rare? or do they all have to be different?

Not sure, but i read that you can throw in any item as long as it is above a certain average lvl. So I am not sure if you get a higher chance of dusk if you throw in 4 GS, or 4 bows for the precursor shortbow.
I have seen people throw in 4 different types and get nothing so I am doubting.

Hadrians.4567:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47865FYdQjw

1500 GS and he got nothing and lost 150g

Its all about Luck….

And i do not recommend to waste ur money

it´s not. it´s simple math.

b2t:

There cannot be “hard” quests in a mmo, because it´s a game, a game cannot be THAT hard. it´s programmed by a human and if someone figured the right way out, the “hard” quest is gone.

The guy above me has it right. In an MMO there is no “Hard” content. They make content designed so it’s accessible and everyone and every class can do it. A “hard quest” just wouldn’t be the way to make precursors harder to get. Also. All this talk about the Scavenger hunt. Before i ever even finished my legendary (Before all this MF fun) i thought the scavenger hunt idea was a terrible stupid idea that would take the coolness of precursors away. They already have alternate ways to get precursors, use em. Want a grind? Grind gold and buy it off TP. Wanna chance your luck? Mystic forge.

Taking inspiration from OP I threw in 52 exotic hammers + the returns.

The forge just ate it though. T_T

You lucky kitten!

OH! SO LUCKY!

It makes me cry so much…

Noobkaka.5067:

You lucky kitten!

OH! SO LUCKY!

It makes me cry so much…

:(

Update: Just found “Spark” again.

zBluRrYz.1347:

Update: Just found “Spark” again.

How much gold was spent roughly on it again?

This is filled with prestige to the brim

You made me try my luck and I threw 120g at the forge last night (after throwing 700g since release and getting nothing)

ended up with Dusk.

Gonna try for Colossus tonight.

Welcome to the rich club

I should also note I got my precursor from forging the exotics I got back

This thread is certainly constructive, it made me 550g in extra gold by enticing me to use the forge again :P

Vol.5241:

You made me try my luck and I threw 120g at the forge last night (after throwing 700g since release and getting nothing)

ended up with Dusk.

Gonna try for Colossus tonight.

Welcome to the rich club

I should also note I got my precursor from forging the exotics I got back

Congrats, Vol! And Blurz as well, on Dusk and the 2nd Spark. I’ve wasted another 100g myself since this thread started, nothing to show for it.

still not believing me when i say luck is account bound?

You inspired me…
Blew 20g in rare swords…
And all I got was a shirt…

and Zap

close pls, there is no sense here..
everybody can make a topic and write whatever he has gotten today, if there´s some rare thing, everybody would hate him.
just stop it..

edit: did i read correctly? you throw in the exotics again? it´s sooooooooooooooo horrible that people like you are successfull in the crap they do.

Cubanito.8725:

You inspired me…
Blew 20g in rare swords…
And all I got was a shirt…

and Zap

only 61s left? you lucky ;p

oh dear lol gz, but this shows how awful this system is, he is rewarded for dumb luck simple as that.
and there’s me wvw’ing every day doing work etc actually playing the game (no offense lol, blame the game not the player heh) and got kitten all to show for it rly.

Aphix.9846:

oh dear lol gz, but this shows how awful this system is, he is rewarded for dumb luck simple as that.
and there’s me wvw’ing every day doing work etc actually playing the game (no offense lol, blame the game not the player heh) and got kitten all to show for it rly.

Hey, how about those sPvP only players? They have 0 % chance at precursors :P

Cubanito.8725:

You inspired me…
Blew 20g in rare swords…
And all I got was a shirt…

and Zap

Congrats!

You can’t tell me that all accounts have 100% RNG integrity, when one person gets 7 precursors in just a few weeks. That would be like going to Vegas for a two week vacation and hitting the jackpot on progressive slots 7 times. I know random is random, but this doesn’t make sense.

Don’t get me wrong, congrats to zBluRrYz….you’re the luckiest GW2 player alive.