Guild Wars 2

As it is now, collecting materials and selling them earns you money – with crafting you loose money.
Especially the higher recipes for which you need ectos are a losing game.
Could you please do something to make crafting profitable?

That’s not Arenanets fault, that’s the markets fault. Also, if you don’t know how to make money with a craft, you’re doing it wrong. I’ve made 80% of all my money (not including my lucky Perma Black Lion Trader) with crafting.

Esplen.3940:

That’s not Arenanets fault, that’s the markets fault. Also, if you don’t know how to make money with a craft, you’re doing it wrong. I’ve made 80% of all my money (not including my lucky Perma Black Lion Trader) with crafting.

The market is a complex system governed by a set of rules. It reacts within the restrictions of those rules. The rules were put in place by ArenaNet, therefore anything wrong with the market is ArenaNet’s fault. However, they can also claim credit for anything right with it.

OP: Crafting with a 400 skill can be profitable. You need to pay better attention to the costs of your materials and the going price for items. Don’t make things where there are already a ton on the market, or things where there is no demand. There is room for decent profit there.

Prior to that, crafting is just a means of exchanging gold for experience. You can find places here and there, especially post 350, where you can make a bit of cash, but there aren’t many. Use crafting to purchase levels. That’s it’s only effective use until you near the skill cap.

Blacklight.2871:

Esplen.3940:

That’s not Arenanets fault, that’s the markets fault. Also, if you don’t know how to make money with a craft, you’re doing it wrong. I’ve made 80% of all my money (not including my lucky Perma Black Lion Trader) with crafting.

The market is a complex system governed by a set of rules. It reacts within the restrictions of those rules. The rules were put in place by ArenaNet, therefore anything wrong with the market is ArenaNet’s fault. However, they can also claim credit for anything right with it.

You can’t blame Arenanet for players posting exotics for a price just lower than the profit margin of crafting to prevent players from crafting constantly to get money.

You also can’t blame Arenanet for players driving prices of Tier 6 materials up.

You can, however, blame Arenanet for their drop rates, although I personally think that they are fair.

there are profit opportunities in every craft, but not everything you craft has value. The highest opportunities for profit lie in crafting of lvl 80 items at crafting level 350+. There are also some niche markets for mid-level rares, and greens (I have been surprised by these while leveling a craft as I never sought them out, but after stumbling on one, I have found several others.)

You really have to take a look at the market and realize that not everything has high value + high demand.

As to the recipies that require ecto being a losing game… not all of them, but you have to know what items in what stat sets have the best return on your investment….

GL and happy crafting.

if people can click a button and make money everytime, they can just craft 100000000 of the same item and make infinit money…. So you get the idea why crafting “is hard” to make money.

Because anything that make money will result in other people mass produce it and undercut you.

As people have said it already, crafting is profitable, you only need to know what to craft. Do a little research.

Just today, I went from 5g to 35g through crafting alone (using only the 5g I had and nothing else).

Bullkitten…………………

Esplen.3940:

Just today, I went from 5g to 35g through crafting alone (using only the 5g I had and nothing else).

Ooshi.8607:

Bullkitten…………………

100% agreed with Esplen. When I first asked the question: Is crafting profitable? I started by putting 5g on a character and seeing what I could do. When my first round of working through 5g worth of raw mats returned me 7g, I started rolling again with 7g, and again, and again…..

You can try this for yourself, it’s easy.

Once you identify the item that has the most profit potential, place your buy orders for raw mats )I usually buy 1,000 at a time, but you can work with a smaller quantity if you want) craft your items list them for lowest current seller…. pick up the resultant money and repeat as often as you wish.

But Wait! Doing this successfully requires the same amount of effort as running dungeons successfully, or the same effort as farming Plinx and just selling the mats! It’s not any better!

Obviously then, crafting is Not Profitable and the system is broken!

Okay, sorry for the sarcasm, but here’s the point blank fact: Crafting for profit does require effort, just like farming events or running dungeons. And you can get returns that are equal or better in other areas of the game…. so, if you like those areas of the game more: DO THAT INSTEAD!

It takes a certain skill set to turn a consistent CoF p1 run in under 10 minutes. Not everyone does it (despite what you read in the dungeon forums.) Likewsie, it takes a certain (different) skill set to turn 5g into 35g with crafting.

Guess what: The game will let you do either, and make money, doing something you enjoy.

If you don’t enjoy doing what it takes to profit via crafting, then play other areas of the game. It’s okay. Really, I promise.

Pro tip: GW2Spidey.com lags significantly. If you’re using an out of game tool to price your mats and goods, you’re not seeing the data in real time, and you’re missing several opportunities. Use it for trending, nothing more!

A small note: Crafting becomes more significantly profitable when you’re not buying your materials.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

A small note: Crafting becomes more significantly profitable when you’re not buying your materials.

Does that take into account the money you could have gotten if you just sold the raw materials?

Khisanth.2948:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

A small note: Crafting becomes more significantly profitable when you’re not buying your materials.

Does that take into account the money you could have gotten if you just sold the raw materials?

Why should it? I don’t take into account the value of armor/weapons I wind up using when I calculate how much loot I earned in a day.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Khisanth.2948:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

A small note: Crafting becomes more significantly profitable when you’re not buying your materials.

Does that take into account the money you could have gotten if you just sold the raw materials?

Why should it? I don’t take into account the value of armor/weapons I wind up using when I calculate how much loot I earned in a day.

Really? I do. Of course, I treat it as a one-time cost, so it’s not like I count it against myself every single day. On the other hand, if I’m trying to find a profitable craft, I need to know what I could get for the mats, or it isn’t worth it. If the crafted item is selling at the cost of mats, I’m not gonna consider it a profit.

There’s a good reason I don’t count the value of every piece of Mithril or Orichalcum Ore I dig up. Or try to weigh the value of one against a blue item I’m about to salvage. Well there are two good reasons, but you folk won’t like either of them.

1) I find it less fun to constantly and consistently crunch numbers looking for the way to eke out a few extra copper or maybe even a silver when I can pull in a couple gold. For reference, spending three hours running around Orr being active in killing things as I run through and taking part in events? I made roughly 1.5 gold and then stopped because I was satisfied.
If I were to sit down and figure out the value of every item salvaged against the value of the item, then figure out the value of the materials versus using them, I’d add an extra hour to my playtime which isn’t fun, is tedious work, and will reliably lead me to the conclusion I already am at: “it’s not profitable to sell this ore/wood/cloth at this time”.

2) I have a known . . . thing. And it’s kept with me since way back in the days I picked up my first RPG. See, if I think an item might possibly be of some use down the line I’ll keep it instead of getting rid of it or using it. It’s led to many a cramped inventory, and it makes me unhappy if I’m forced to throw out or use up items which I might still get use out of. To use a more common ground? This is why I have so many Elixirs at the end of a Final Fantasy game and never . . . use . . . any of them.
By extension, in an MMO I’ve found that in a shifting market I’m terrible about picking times to sell. I sell too early because the deal feels on the edge of “too good to be true” only to watch the item skyrocket in price. Or I decide to hold it for just a little more and watch the value plummet like a stone.
Because of the these two experiences I use materials rather than sell them, since their value to me is always a set amount. I don’t consider them valuable because I have no interest in selling them . . . if I don’t intend on selling them then what does it matter what the market would pay?

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

There’s a good reason I don’t count the value of every piece of Mithril or Orichalcum Ore I dig up. Or try to weigh the value of one against a blue item I’m about to salvage. Well there are two good reasons, but you folk won’t like either of them.

1) I find it less fun to constantly and consistently crunch numbers looking for the way to eke out a few extra copper or maybe even a silver when I can pull in a couple gold. For reference, spending three hours running around Orr being active in killing things as I run through and taking part in events? I made roughly 1.5 gold and then stopped because I was satisfied.
If I were to sit down and figure out the value of every item salvaged against the value of the item, then figure out the value of the materials versus using them, I’d add an extra hour to my playtime which isn’t fun, is tedious work, and will reliably lead me to the conclusion I already am at: “it’s not profitable to sell this ore/wood/cloth at this time”.

2) I have a known . . . thing. And it’s kept with me since way back in the days I picked up my first RPG. See, if I think an item might possibly be of some use down the line I’ll keep it instead of getting rid of it or using it. It’s led to many a cramped inventory, and it makes me unhappy if I’m forced to throw out or use up items which I might still get use out of. To use a more common ground? This is why I have so many Elixirs at the end of a Final Fantasy game and never . . . use . . . any of them.
By extension, in an MMO I’ve found that in a shifting market I’m terrible about picking times to sell. I sell too early because the deal feels on the edge of “too good to be true” only to watch the item skyrocket in price. Or I decide to hold it for just a little more and watch the value plummet like a stone.
Because of the these two experiences I use materials rather than sell them, since their value to me is always a set amount. I don’t consider them valuable because I have no interest in selling them . . . if I don’t intend on selling them then what does it matter what the market would pay?

1) I understand the intent behind this. My compromise is to establish a few ground rules and not veer from them. In my case, those rules are “Salvage whites, sell everything else,” and “Don’t bother salvaging leather.” Implementing those two takes little time, in the grand scheme of things.

2) I can see that. It’s something I try not to do much in MMO’s, but I still pack-rat a bit.

For your conclusion, though—I do pretty much the same thing. I take the various ores I use and assign “average” values to them. Iron ore is usually ~10c, Mithril ~30-40c, and Orichalcum ~2s. Know how many ores it takes to make something, and multiply. I only sit down and figure out exact values when trying to enter a new market, or one I don’t usually play. Mostly, I do this so I can be sure I’m not losing money by crafting versus selling ore.

<cheers CassieGold and Esplen>

Crafting takes effort and skill, agreed… I’ve been able to find profitable opportunities at every tier, too. Sometimes, it’s crafting the intermediate stuff, sometimes it’s buying intermediate parts to make finished goods. Once, I even made money buying parts to craft green items for sale to the vendor! But you have to look at the current market, not the much-delayed websites.

And yes, you make more profit crafting with materials that you gather yourself. When you sell your materials on the market, the Black Lion guys take their 15% cut. When you buy on the market, their cut has been taken out from the seller…. So if you gather your own, you’ve added 15%.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

A small note: Crafting becomes more significantly profitable when you’re not buying your materials.

People who don’t understand opportunity cost is the other reason crafting is unprofitable.

Wanderer.3248:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

A small note: Crafting becomes more significantly profitable when you’re not buying your materials.

People who don’t understand opportunity cost is the other reason crafting is unprofitable.

I understand opportunity cost just fine. But as I posted, I don’t like essentially running economic review subroutines in my head when I’m playing my game.

“So I can salvage this blue worth 89 Copper and get one to three Mithril Ore or one to two Elder Wood Log, or one Orichalcum, or one Ancient Wood Log. The Mithril Ore will be worth 40 Copper each, the Orichalcum about 75, the Elder around 35 each, and the Ancient around 50 . . . so hmm, if I salvage it and get the most Mithril I’ll get the better value but what if I get one instead? Should I salvage it knowing it’s likely I will lose 2/3 of the value . . . or sell it and take the guaranteed . . . "

Yeah, no, I salvage it or sell it based on whatever I feel like doing at the time. (shrug) I don’t play this game to wring every little copper I can out of the drops, I play this game to relax.

Also, the value of all the materials is usually pretty fluid and pointless to look at except for Tier 3-6 Fine materials and Tier 6 standard materials. Technically, it’s not worth the time or the effort to get anything else if you count all potential opportunity costs.

But then, if you want to really count opportunity costs? It’s not worth your time to be playing video games when you could be making money in the real world.

CassieGold.7460:

Esplen.3940:

Just today, I went from 5g to 35g through crafting alone (using only the 5g I had and nothing else).

Ooshi.8607:

Bullkitten…………………

100% agreed with Esplen. When I first asked the question: Is crafting profitable? I started by putting 5g on a character and seeing what I could do. When my first round of working through 5g worth of raw mats returned me 7g, I started rolling again with 7g, and again, and again…..

But Wait! Doing this successfully requires the same amount of effort as running dungeons successfully, or the same effort as farming Plinx and just selling the mats! It’s not any better!

Obviously then, crafting is Not Profitable and the system is broken!

Okay, sorry for the sarcasm, but here’s the point blank fact: Crafting for profit does require effort, just like farming events or running dungeons. And you can get returns that are equal or better in other areas of the game…. so, if you like those areas of the game more: DO THAT INSTEAD!

It takes a certain skill set to turn a consistent CoF p1 run in under 10 minutes. Not everyone does it (despite what you read in the dungeon forums.) Likewsie, it takes a certain (different) skill set to turn 5g into 35g with crafting.

Guess what: The game will let you do either, and make money, doing something you enjoy.

If you don’t enjoy doing what it takes to profit via crafting, then play other areas of the game. It’s okay. Really, I promise.

I wasn’t saying in any way that crafting isn’t profitable. I do a substantial amount of my gold through crafting. That was just my expression of disbelief that you could invest 5G and turn it into 35G in the space of one day.
I understand the principle of buying the mats, crafting, selling, turn initial cash + profit into more mats, rinse and repeat.
I’m just convinced that a 500% capital gain in the space of a day is impossible.

Then again… maybe I got some more stuff to learn….

Ooshi.8607:

I wasn’t saying in any way that crafting isn’t profitable. I do a substantial amount of my gold through crafting. That was just my expression of disbelief that you could invest 5G and turn it into 35G in the space of one day.
I understand the principle of buying the mats, crafting, selling, turn initial cash + profit into more mats, rinse and repeat.
I’m just convinced that a 500% capital gain in the space of a day is impossible.

Then again… maybe I got some more stuff to learn….

I’ll be honest, the only way I think it’s really possible in the space of a day is to span markets…. if you were starting in, let’s say rare pistols, once your first batch sold, you could do another batch the second time, but would probably want to roll into an exotic market with your profits, then the 3rd time, might consider branching into a rare armor….

This is the part that comes down to velocity. I find that if I list too large a batch at once, things move more slowly because it’s easier for smaller sales to undercut while my huge lump is occupying a price point. But if I list smaller batches, 20-30, and then move into a 2nd market while I’m waiting for those to sell…..

Also, if you’re going to list a large lump, do it before you go to bed Logging on in the morning, even if you list a large lump, you get to give more time for the supply to cycle.

The 15% listing fee kills any and all profit to be made. The average price of the finished product is rarely high enough in comparison to the total cost of the materials that you will end up making a profit.

I wish Anet would at least discuss the crafting system with us: because it is a new design compared to what we are used to.

—Do players like the crafting system?
—What can we do to improve on the crafting system?
—What would make the crafting system more fun?
—Should the crafting system have new items regularly introduced?
—Any other thoughts about the crafting system?

I would love Anet to discuss the crafting system with the players.
Because crafting is a very important part of the game for both hardcore and casual players.

Oglaf.1074:

The 15% listing fee kills any and all profit to be made. The average price of the finished product is rarely high enough in comparison to the total cost of the materials that you will end up making a profit.

Crafting in the hope that all your products are going to be profitable is deluded at best. It’s been stated time and time again that there is profit to be made if you look for it and that is counting with the 15% cut on materials and subsequent 15% cut on finished product.

As a comparison, in TBC/WotLK WoW Jewelcrafters where the most/only profitable profession, but 99% of your profit came after you reach max level.
In GW2, not every product is profitable, but you have profit opportunities at every tier. In fact, as a weapon smith and armor smith I’m hovering on both profs in the early 300’s and both have been really profitable so far.

So… Godskull Weapons?

Oglaf.1074:

The 15% listing fee kills any and all profit to be made. The average price of the finished product is rarely high enough in comparison to the total cost of the materials that you will end up making a profit.

This is just flat untrue. Yes, the 15% cuts into profits, but it does not eliminate profits.

If you want a good idea of what you’re real opportunity is, mock up a buy order for your raw mats required to produce a single item, total it up, and then look at your sell price for that item. Maybe even make one as a test using mats on hand…. you’ll start to see places where the price to ‘buy now’ has a significant gap between what you can do with a buy order… the swing I found this morning was 20c between lowest seller and my buy order. By the time I’d done the Plinx chain once, my buy order had filled, and I was able to relog to my crafting character, pick up mats, craft items, list them, place my next buy order, and then get back to playing.

looking at a 4s listing fee on an item that has a gross profit of 11s, and a net profit of 5s is not a bad thing when you can do 20 of them at a time.

1g profit, for the same amount of time and effort invested as a really good CoF run…. sure, I’ll take it.

The less of an item people make, the more profitable it can be.

Look to the mid level markets that get less attention and that’s where you’ll find profit opportunities.

Profit on any item disappears if enough people make it. So don’t make what other people are making. Meet an existing demand that isn’t being met. Don’t exceed the demand with excess supply. Right now there are hundreds of things that are profitable to craft that people don’t feel like making themselves, demand exceeds supply. Find some of those items and make them for your customers. They want you to. Many opportunities change from day to day, others are actually rather consistent as long as you don’t see $$ and flood the market with more of the item than people want.

The same skills one uses to find and flip items on the TP for x profit can be used to craft and sell things for profit. Often for a higher profit than one would make flipping.

Sometimes it’s easier to craft for profit than flip for profit.

Mid level jewelry and rares are a good starting point to look at. People just want to spend a little money and upgrade a gear slot. They don’t care if it’s 5s cheaper to make it themselves, they just want to get their thing and keep playing on their alt or whatever.

Making intermediary items within the crafting process is another thing to look at. In a particular market completing the item might not be profitable, but getting some mats and making mithril spearheads or something might be.

The more attention a market has, the less profitable it is. It has to be, as getting the mats from the TP and making something with it is almost instant. If something is profitable, if you keep making it it won’t be infinitely profitable. Either you keep buying the mats raising demand on the mats raising the price, or more likely you make more of the item than is normally bought in x time period.

Find something that looks good and isn’t made often, make a few of that, then a few of something else, few of something else etc, and you’ll be on your way to making money with crafting. You CAN make money sometimes making level 80 exotics, but the better opportunities are almost always elsewhere.

Oglaf.1074:

So… Godskull Weapons?

No. Again, limiting your thinking to only finished items will cut your number of viable markets severely. I’ve personally made profits with iron, darksteel, linen, silk, cotton, and other mats. In fact, return on investment is pretty high. You just have to know where to look.