Guild Wars 2

I really want to know everyone’s opinion on the matter of mystic clovers as part of the legendary weapon recipe. Now, for those of you who haven’t been trying for these suckers yet, here’s the recipe:
10x Glob of Ectoplasm
10x Obsidian Shard (2100 karma each)
10x Mystic Coin
10x Arcane Crystal (3 skill points for 5 crystals)

There is also another recipe with 1/10 of all the costs and 6 philosopher stones instead of 10 arcane crystals. The large recipe has a chance to yield 10 clovers and the small recipe has a chance of up to 3 (reportedly).

I have done the 10x recipe 10 times (using 40% magic find food with 100% magic find gear) so far and only received clovers on one occasion. I know that this is not a large sample size so I am asking anyone who has tried either the 10x or the 1x recipe to post their results (only ones you are sure of and remember correctly) so that we might have an idea of the real mystic clover success rate.

To get back on topic; I personally feel that the mystic clovers are the only downside to the process of crafting a legendary weapon. All other parts of the weapon feel like they truly require a mastery of some game aspect. Badges of Honor, crafting gifts, exploration, even the t6 mats and icy runestones require mastery of farming / making gold. All the goals are very time consuming to complete, but you do have some idea of when you can complete them as they are not RNG events. Farming 525k karma for 250 obsidian shards is fine by me as part of a recipe as my progress towards it is steady and everyone must farm the same amount of karma.

Mystic clovers are a different story; clovers ARE random rewards and it could be possible that you NEVER get 77 of them. While extremely unlikely it is turning what was otherwise a quite fun experience (gathering legendary components) into something stressful whenever I try the recipe. I’m not asking to make it easier and I don’t mind having to work for a goal. It is just my OPINION that something better than a high risk slot machine could’ve been thought up for this part of the legendary.

Please share your experience with trying to get clovers or how you feel on this requirement of the legendary.

I will have to agree with this one, Legendaries shuld be earned by hard work and not by getting lucky. and its also unfair that some ppl will inevitably have to farm more stuff than others to get their legendary.

Support, theres already enough luck involved in getting the precursor if you want to get it yourself and not spend 100g+ on them on the trading post.

Thanks for your input. I agree that there is enough luck involved in getting the precursor, we don’t need 2 parts of the legendary to be completely RNG. The clovers just don’t feel legendary to acquire at all. If they still want the system in game they should give you a “buff” every time you miss on the recipe that makes you more likely to succeed next time. That would at least alleviate some of the dread of missing 7 times in a row like I have on a very expensive recipe.

I doubt they will change anything thought, I am one of those people who never have luck with RNG stuff. My best drop in GW1 was worth like 20 ektos and I played till GWAMM + 50/50.

Indeed, Mystic Clovers should be either removed from the recipe, or drastically reduced. It requires too much to obtain on top of being luck based and just results on more grinding on top of the precursor being luck based…

I agree. With my RNG luck I fill the 6 stacks of T6 materials before I get 77 clovers…

If you want to reduce the influence of RNG just use the 1x recipe instead of the 10x recipe. Why is that so hard?

You gambled on the 10x recipe, and you lost. Next time go the safe route if you can’t handle failing.

how is the 1x recipe better?

Malediktus.9250:

how is the 1x recipe better?

If the average success chances for each recipe are the same, the 1x recipe is more likely to give average results and the 10x recipe is more likely to give very lucky or very unlucky results.

Just think of it this way: If I flip a coin 7 times, what are the chances that it’ll come out heads every time? It’s around 0.8%. Not likely, but not beyond the realm of possibility. Now consider this: If I flip a coin 70 times, what are the chances that ti’ll come out heads every time? It’s 8.5 * 10^-22. That’s like the chances of being struck by lightning every single day of your entire life. In other words, it’s really REALLY unlikely that you’ll get absolutely no clovers when using the 1x recipe, while it’s a definite possibility when you’re using the 10x recipe.

So, if you want to gamble, use the 10x recipe. If you want to play it safe, use the 1x recipe.

I agree 100%. When I see what has to be done for a legendary, everything feels right and a good idea, but one thing makes me sigh and desperate, the random factor and the huge amount of mats required.

Seriously fix this one single idiotic thing might take more time than anything else.

I’m almost 100% certain there’s a way to craft mystic clovers that either nobody has discovered yet, or someone’s not telling. There’s a dev post somewhere that mentioned this within the past week or so – not explicitly stating it, but saying there are plenty of recipes left to be discovered (with regards to clovers).

clovers are a symbol of luck, so it makes sense you need luck to get them sadly
I doubt theres a 100% chance recipe, if there is, it will be insanely expensive

I have been farming more karma over the past week and have amassed 320k. As soon as the Balthazar event is un-bugged I will purchase more shards from the vendor and attempt the 1x recipe. I will keep track of my results and post what I find here if it seems far off from the 1/9 I’ve been hearing. Good luck to anyone else trying for them. We will certainly need it.

Kamahl.3621:

I’m almost 100% certain there’s a way to craft mystic clovers that either nobody has discovered yet, or someone’s not telling. There’s a dev post somewhere that mentioned this within the past week or so – not explicitly stating it, but saying there are plenty of recipes left to be discovered (with regards to clovers).

If you remember were you read this, please throw a link in a reply. I’m always curious about the untold secrets of the forge.

I don’t think its a problem, I’ve been getting clovers 30% of the time so far.

It already takes a ton of commitment to make a legendary. RNG has never been my ally in anything I’ve ever played. I don’t mind taking the time to hunt down all the nodes we need, or even trying to get gold, but adding a time and money sink just to do it, isn’t fun in my opinion.

When they first announced Legendaries, and said you don’t need a group to complete them, I was thrilled. I thought you’d follow some sort of epic quest line while collecting the items needed to create a legendary, not rely on RNG. I understand getting item drops to get the Ectos, or gold, was going to be part of it, but not farming for a chance at getting what you wanted.

I know this is a game, but if I want something in real life, I get a job, work hard, and save up money. When I reach that goal, it feels rewarding, not like I got lucky. Although finding and keeping a job feels like real life RNG these days lol.

@chuiu

And that exactly is a problem. You’ve had 30% clover rate, and the OP had 10% (small samples though). If there is indeed a clover recepie that is 100% guaranteed (and without insane requirement of materials) that would be ok… as is, you can be lucky as hell, do 8 tries and get 80 clovers or you could do 80 tries and get 0 clovers (however unlikely it is).

I agree, less RNG, more sweaty labour! Precursor is demonic enough to get (barely ever see them in the TP and even rarer to see them for a price anything less than 60-80g which in itself is already weeks of grinding.)

Well they don’t call it the Gift of “Fortune” for nothing…

Why do you think magic find gear will help with this kind of thing? You are going to get an item out of the mystic forge. That’s guaranteed. Why would magic find push the odds in favor of clovers particularly? Do you have anything to base this off of? If it is possible that the magic find influences the chance of producing clovers, couldn’t it just as easily be reducing your odds of getting clovers as increasing it?

The idea behind magic find is that it increases your odds to get magic items as random drops off mobs. You aren’t guaranteed anything off the mob at all, and the mob can produce more than one item. It’s a completely different beast when you are guaranteed an item already from a recipe, and it’s dangerous to make assumptions that you are improving your odds.

I think the idea is supposed to be that you make the mystic clovers first, and then if the recipe fails a few times – well, that just means you have to farm/buy fewer T6 mats.

ya clovers definatly were a bad call on ANets part, 100% luck based where the entire rest of the legendary is small part skill and large part effort.

would like to see them up the sucess rate to like 100% or there abouts so people have a set goal.

if i want to play the lottery for items ill go play vanilla WoW or something, this was part of what they were supposed to get rid of.

Strill.2591:

Malediktus.9250:

how is the 1x recipe better?

If the average success chances for each recipe are the same, the 1x recipe is more likely to give average results and the 10x recipe is more likely to give very lucky or very unlucky results.

Just think of it this way: If I flip a coin 7 times, what are the chances that it’ll come out heads every time? It’s around 0.8%. Not likely, but not beyond the realm of possibility. Now consider this: If I flip a coin 70 times, what are the chances that ti’ll come out heads every time? It’s 8.5 * 10^-22. That’s like the chances of being struck by lightning every single day of your entire life. In other words, it’s really REALLY unlikely that you’ll get absolutely no clovers when using the 1x recipe, while it’s a definite possibility when you’re using the 10x recipe.

So, if you want to gamble, use the 10x recipe. If you want to play it safe, use the 1x recipe.

What you wrote makes no sense, just so you know. The “large recipe” might indeed be a worse strategy than the “small recipe” (depending upon the various distributions the devs set up for clover drops on either recipe) but your argument is pure gibberish.

Actually it makes very good sense. The more times a random event occurs, the closer the outcome will be to its expected value. You can minimize the variance by using the cheaper recipe and therefore be closer to the true probability of success. This is assuming they have the same probability for success, though.

How do you know that the Mystic Clover is 100% random? So far people have discovered a couple of recipes that create random items, including clovers. That doesn’t mean that there is not a recipe to create a guaranteed clover, or to promote a clover to more clovers.

Even with the ‘random’ recipes, who’s to say luck even has anything to do with it. Maybe people who Zommoros likes more (because they’ve gifted him more things, including wine etc) will turn out to be more likely to get things like clovers. e.g. Mastery of the Mystic Forge.

Simple fact is, nobody knows how hard it really is to make clovers. Why are so many people just expecting to have a Legendary weapon handed to them quickly, without needing to do any work.?

Kaz.5430:

How do you know that the Mystic Clover is 100% random? So far people have discovered a couple of recipes that create random items, including clovers. That doesn’t mean that there is not a recipe to create a guaranteed clover, or to promote a clover to more clovers.

Even with the ‘random’ recipes, who’s to say luck even has anything to do with it. Maybe people who Zommoros likes more (because they’ve gifted him more things, including wine etc) will turn out to be more likely to get things like clovers. e.g. Mastery of the Mystic Forge.

Simple fact is, nobody knows how hard it really is to make clovers. Why are so many people just expecting to have a Legendary weapon handed to them quickly, without needing to do any work.?

Why is there so many people that take the valid concerns and they turn it in to: you want everything on a silver platter?

Noone is asking for free legendary (ok, I guess there are ppl that want it free), all people want is less or no RNG involved. And RNG will never ever equate to hard, it’s just pure dumb luck…you can be the hardest working and most skilled person that ever walked the earth and if RNG bad luck streak hits you…

I’d agree on the part, that we might not know all the recepies yet, but going by what we know (or is publicly available rather) there is RNG involved.

I don’t agree that the legendary hunt should have so many RNG steps. Getting the pre-weapon already is a pretty large commitment wether you want to buy it or try and craft it.

However, people keep talking about getting “their” legendaries or otherwise mentioning legendaries in contexts where they think they are entitled to one.

The legendary hunt is not for everyone, only the extremely dedicated player.
These items are meant to be legendary and not easily obtained. I play a lot, and i mean a lot, and it still seems like a very very large challenge. And that’s the way it should be.

If i spend 500hrs on a legendary weapon i would get mad if it just got easy to obtain them due to economy inflation (Read: Ectos and other materials getting cheap as supply increases).

Little too RNG but, at least for the pre-weapon it’s fair enough!

They are not valid concerns, they are whines, based on assumptions 1 month into release.

There is randomness involved in the recipes that you know. That is not the same as randomness being a requirement.

Maybe randomness is a requirement, in which case whine all you like. But at this point everyone wants the forge recipes handed to them for free, without having to do the work themselves, and make the risks trying to discover a new clover recipe.

How many people in this thread have actually gambled by using a mystic clover in a different recipe to try and find a promotion recipe? I bet the answer is zero.

Hasek.6807:

I don’t agree that the legendary hunt should have so many RNG steps. Getting the pre-weapon already is a pretty large commitment wether you want to buy it or try and craft it.

However, people keep talking about getting “their” legendaries or otherwise mentioning legendaries in contexts where they think they are entitled to one.

The legendary hunt is not for everyone, only the extremely dedicated player.
These items are meant to be legendary and not easily obtained. I play a lot, and i mean a lot, and it still seems like a very very large challenge. And that’s the way it should be.

If i spend 500hrs on a legendary weapon i would get mad if it just got easy to obtain them due to economy inflation (Read: Ectos and other materials getting cheap as supply increases).

Little too RNG but, at least for the pre-weapon it’s fair enough!

I talk about “My” legendary because I have Dawn along with all the monetary costs and about 35% of the karma costs complete. I’ll have the whole thing done in around two weeks or so.

People talk about probability as if it is this enigma that is controlling of the player’s fate.

With a large enough sample size, an event with a certain probability of occurring will approach whatever mean value AN has determined for the clover recipe.

The chance that you do the single mat recipe 100 times without getting a single clover would be laughably small.

Get obsidian shards and do the 1 clover recipe. You WILL get your clovers in a reasonable amount of karma spent. If you don’t want to do that, then don’t craft the weapon. Those are your options.

stop arguing about this. RNG IS A BAD GAME DESIGN DESCISION. nuff said. if you think RNG is a good game mechanic please go play AION thanks. get it out of the legendary crafting completly it should be EFFORT based yes the pre exotics TOO. not LUCK based. thats kitten and extremly unfair in the first place. whoever tought of this as a good idea should be fired on the spot.

make legendarys based on EFFORT and have this effort be the SAME for ALL players who try to make them. not only for some lucky ones. thats stupid design for a devteam who said they are gonna break the old mmo rules. RNG is ONE of them. get it off the legendary crafting process entirely. make fixed recipe to get the pre exotics aswell. give the option to buy lodestones and other rare mats with wvw badgets and instance tokens aswell. so players dont have to rely on buying gold or wasting thier time with RNG and can actually PLAY and have fun while working towards it.

RNG for legendaries is why I’ll be using exotics until it’s changed. If it’s never changed, I’ll be content with exotics. RNG end-game is extremely poor game design. Oh, and lazy, too.

If you don’t want to get RNG clovers using the random materials recipe, put the risk, gold and effort into finding a different recipe that’s not random.

As for a sample, I got my 77 Clovers using 192 shards/coins/ectos. I used the 10x recipe till i got 70 clovers and the 1x recipe for the extra 7. Sorry I didn’t keep track of the number of times I did each of the 10x and 1x recipes.

That puts me at a total of 411,600 karma for clovers and a grand total of 928,200 karma for my legendary. (all grind is done, just waiting for a unbugged balth to finish)

I kind of agree, except I’d preffer it if the exotic prerequisite wasn’t RNG and the clovers stayed the same.

It’s not just the high prices of the exotic, it’s the fact that they barely seem to appear on the TP even though it’s global.

At the english wiki page someone posted his data of 158 1-Clover-Recipes. It pretty much looks like a 1/3 chance, which also fits the results some friend of mine had with rather few tries.

It looks like the 1x recipe gives 1 clover (but may give up to 4 of other items) and the 10x recipe gives 10x clover (and again more for other things). The costs are equivalent, but like “Strill” already explained above, the 1x recipe results in less variance and thus is a safer option, while the 10x recipe is the gamling way.

An Epic quest line for the precursor or the Legendary itself sounds interesting. Seing as once the main quest line is completed and Zhaitan is defeated, the game kinda goes “bleh”(imo).

The mystic clovers however should stay the same. I’m not big on farming or gold making, but the 1x recipe seems fair enough.

unless you can source it with a screenshot, 1x can not yield more than 1 clover. otherwise 10x would give 10-30, which it doesn’t. out of my 144 clovers, I used the 10x recipe and had better than the reported 33%. RNG is RNG

clovers aren’t even the big issue with the legendary, they’re the easy part.

The RNG only plays big part at the 10x recipe which is your decision really.
Want to gamble? do 10x and don’t complain if you get screwed bad.

Or you can play safe like I did and 231 clovers later, I can tell you that 1x recipe stands true to 30% – 33%.

i can tell you the 10x recipe is also 33% true. or better in my case. people are just afraid to do the 10×. there have been people screwed with the 1x recipe as well. 300+ shards later with 1x and still not at 77. the smaller gamble doesn’t ‘hurt’ as much, but it’s just perception.

kiba.2768:

i can tell you the 10x recipe is also 33% true. or better in my case. people are just afraid to do the 10×. there have been people screwed with the 1x recipe as well. 300+ shards later with 1x and still not at 77. the smaller gamble doesn’t ‘hurt’ as much, but it’s just perception.

There is a much greater sample rate on 1x rather than 10×.
You’ll virtually need 750 shards to for a real 33% chance

Unless the chances on 10x recipe are higher than 1x so you end up with similar results for a stack of shards on each recipe.
If you get the same odds on both recipes, then the risk is much greater on 10x, it is all-or-nothing.

I’ll bet with you that there are much more people who got burnt by the 10x rather than the 1×.

Firegoth.6427:

kiba.2768:

i can tell you the 10x recipe is also 33% true. or better in my case. people are just afraid to do the 10×. there have been people screwed with the 1x recipe as well. 300+ shards later with 1x and still not at 77. the smaller gamble doesn’t ‘hurt’ as much, but it’s just perception.

There is a much greater sample rate on 1x rather than 10×.
You’ll virtually need 750 shards to for a real 33% chance

Unless the chances on 10x recipe are higher than 1x so you end up with similar results for a stack of shards on each recipe.
If you get the same odds on both recipes, then the risk is much greater on 10x, it is all-or-nothing.

I’ll bet with you that there are much more people who got burnt by the 10x rather than the 1×.

the fact that the sample size for the 1x is larger than 10x is a given. there’s no need to discuss that, otherwise why would there be more conclusive evidence for the 33% on 1x and less for the 10x? nuff said.

the risk is the same either way. why? gambling has no memory. whether or not you get a streak of bad or good luck with 1x or 10x is irrelevant to your total result if you use the same amount of materials or attempts.

i’ll bet with you that the people who got burnt are equal. like i said, it’s all perception. it doesn’t seem to hurt as much when you fail 10* 1x in a day versus 1* 10×. it’s only the people who complain about the 10x failing versus the amount of people complaining that failed the 1×. i am willing to bet my whole account that there are much fewer complainers who had a bad return with 1×.

regardless, the chances are the same. why would anet purposefully manipulate the outcome for the 2 recipes that when used in proportion to each other, use the exact same amount of materials? it doesn’t make sense at all.

I don’t like RNG, instead of making the 1 ecto recipe have a 1/3 of yielding clovers, couldn’t they just make a 3 ecto recipe with 100% to yield a clover?

Jujube.4981:

As for a sample, I got my 77 Clovers using 192 shards/coins/ectos. I used the 10x recipe till i got 70 clovers and the 1x recipe for the extra 7. Sorry I didn’t keep track of the number of times I did each of the 10x and 1x recipes.

That puts me at a total of 411,600 karma for clovers and a grand total of 928,200 karma for my legendary. (all grind is done, just waiting for a unbugged balth to finish)

Looks like my clovers are going to cost close to double what yours have, whilst I am using the same 10 recipe.

Recently –
One sitting Did 390 Shards into 150 Clovers
Next Day 250 Shards into 30 clovers…
10 Minutes later 250 Shards into 40 Clovers…
after 90 Shards into 40 clovers…. all luck of draw imo… just forged clovers for fun ; /

TL;DR all the comments

if this already have been stated then i apologize.

1. most things about the legendary is random. the precursor is random. its random how many ectos u get from the rares you salvage. its random how many T6 materials that drop for you. the only thing that isn’t random is the karma and tokens and etc. so rng is rng. cloves rng doesn’t matter from precursor rng.

2. imo, you are not aloud to whine about how bad the cloves-rng is if you played with the 10-recipe. the 10-cloves recipe is a lot more risky, expect bad / good results. however if you played the 1-recipe and u got less than a 1:5 ratio or even worse. then you are definitively aloud to whine abit on the forum. i calculated some numbers a few month ago regarding these cloves. and presuming you are using the 1-clove recipe there is a 90% chance that you land within 800-1200k karma (in total for the legendary). i’d say that’s pretty ok rng in my book. (this is just from my memory and i might be wrong)

just my opinion

I will say this though, If you dont have your 250 of each t6 material I would do the 10x recipe. At least that way if you dont get clovers you still get a chance at t6 mats.