Guild Wars 2

I got a recipe in the new dungeon for some garlic kale food. It gave +40% condition duration and +70 condition damage. Great food but completely unreasonable to make. It costs:

20 heads of garlic
40 kale leaves
1 jar of dressing
(something else that isn’t important)

the kale and the garlic alone cost over a gold on the TP… 1 gold for a 1hr buff is kind of absurd. Even cutting it down to 2 garlic and 4 kale would still be expensive, but at least manageable. I don’t know if it is just this recipe or all the new ones, but the ingredient costs need a serious adjustment.

I believe most of these new recipes were introduced to try and suck up excess low-level (and some high-level) ingredients from the game. Of course, at current prices it’s still not worthwhile to craft some of them.

I agree that is the only recipe that is completely out of whack. The rest all are pretty fair as far as cost.

“the kale and the garlic alone cost over a gold on the TP”

??? checked just now, both kale and garlic are approx 1 silver each, not 1 gold
(unless u meant 1G total for 20 Garlic or 40 Kale)

Did evry one sell their garlic and kale in the time between my post and the OP’s and that it made the value drop dramatically?!

Anyway, kitten i thought i was gonna get rich with selling kale and garlic :-(

Lol no to make 1 food buff it is about 1g.

Wow. 20 garlic heads and 40 kale leaves? I WAS interested in using it before I read this. That sounds more like a recipe for a feast. Two garlics and four kale leaves for an hour buff would be the limit I would be willing to use.

Which is about what other recipes take so not sure what happened with this one.

What is even the point of that recipe, when Rare Veggie Pizza has the same effect, only for half duration?

20 garlic and 40 kale for one hour of buff? That seems a trifle…..excessive. You would think that the people who design this sort of thing would check against prices on the trading post.

jazzllanna.1278:

Which is about what other recipes take so not sure what happened with this one.

Well that’s good to know. I haven’t gotten the other recipes yet so I couldn’t check.

Hopefully they fix it.

You’re correct, Paul, except that the cost/reward for this specific item is crazily out of whack. It costs roughly 60-70s to make 1 of these items, whereas the 30 minute equivalent item is about 3.5s per.

Are we sure the mats aren’t spiking due to demand or being manipulated? Garlic used to be like 30 copper or less, barely worth selling.

Personally I feel that all the new recipes should get looked at as -to me- all of them require way too many materials for just one serving.

I agree however that all the new recipes are out-of-whack, but the Bowl of Garlic Kale Sautee is beyond ridiculous. For the amount of money in materials I can buy like 15 Rare Veggie Pizzas clocking in at 7.5 hours worth of buffs.

lets look at this is a way where merchanters did not mess up the trade post, lets say on the 28th of April.

at that time the rare veggie pizza costs 5s00c BUT it lasts only half as long as a Bowl of Garlic Kale Sautee, so to even that out, it will take 10s00c to get a full hour of the same stats.
now lets take a look at the prices for the ingredients on the 28th of April
head of garlic: 50c
since you need 20 of those, that is 50c x 20 = 10s00c …

well unless the other ingredients cost less then zero this recipe is never going to get used for nothing.

more math:
1g = 20 x rare veggie pizza = 10 hours of 40%condition duration and 70 condition damage
1g = 3 x bowl of garlic kale sautee = 3 hours of 40%condition duration and 70 condition damage

let me just make like an angry video game nerd and say: WHAT WHERE THEY THINKING

solutions: divide the amount of garlic and kale required by 10.

Pennry.9215:

Are we sure the mats aren’t spiking due to demand or being manipulated? Garlic used to be like 30 copper or less, barely worth selling.

No it is not the prices being messed with as far as I can tell— it is just the mass amount that is required to make 1 food buff for 1 hour.

Cyto.9401:

lets look at this is a way where merchanters did not mess up the trade post, lets say on the 28th of April.

at that time the rare veggie pizza costs 5s00c BUT it lasts only half as long as a Bowl of Garlic Kale Sautee, so to even that out, it will take 10s00c to get a full hour of the same stats.
now lets take a look at the prices for the ingredients on the 28th of April
head of garlic: 50c
since you need 20 of those, that is 50c x 20 = 10s00c …

well unless the other ingredients cost less then zero this recipe is never going to get used for nothing.

more math:
1g = 20 x rare veggie pizza = 10 hours of 40%condition duration and 70 condition damage
1g = 3 x bowl of garlic kale sautee = 3 hours of 40%condition duration and 70 condition damage

let me just make like an angry video game nerd and say: WHAT WHERE THEY THINKING

solutions: divide the amount of garlic and kale required by 10.

Looking at Rare Veggie Pizza in GW2DB.com, the cost to CREATE it is over 70s. While people are selling it for very little, that’s a major hole (unless they made a lot from leveling up cooking) considering how much some of the ingredients costs.

Rare Veggie Pizza is also something like a 5th generation pizza. (Cheese→Mushroom→Fancy→Super→Rare Veggie IIRC)

While I’d love a reduction in the ingredients for Garlic Kale Saute here, I don’t see them giving us a 90% reduction – maybe 25%?

And a tray of rare veggie pizzas give a 1 hour buff to any and all who partake within 5 minutes of it being activated. Last I looked Tray of rare veggie pizza sold for about 50s

The increase of ingredients is annoying. What is more offensive is the fact it gives the same buffs to something we already had.

I had to double check to make sure the recipe didn’t make more than one item before I could believe the volume of components necessary.

Rajani Isa.6294:

Cyto.9401:

lets look at this is a way where merchanters did not mess up the trade post, lets say on the 28th of April.

at that time the rare veggie pizza costs 5s00c BUT it lasts only half as long as a Bowl of Garlic Kale Sautee, so to even that out, it will take 10s00c to get a full hour of the same stats.
now lets take a look at the prices for the ingredients on the 28th of April
head of garlic: 50c
since you need 20 of those, that is 50c x 20 = 10s00c …

well unless the other ingredients cost less then zero this recipe is never going to get used for nothing.

more math:
1g = 20 x rare veggie pizza = 10 hours of 40%condition duration and 70 condition damage
1g = 3 x bowl of garlic kale sautee = 3 hours of 40%condition duration and 70 condition damage

let me just make like an angry video game nerd and say: WHAT WHERE THEY THINKING

solutions: divide the amount of garlic and kale required by 10.

Looking at Rare Veggie Pizza in GW2DB.com, the cost to CREATE it is over 70s. While people are selling it for very little, that’s a major hole (unless they made a lot from leveling up cooking) considering how much some of the ingredients costs.

Rare Veggie Pizza is also something like a 5th generation pizza. (Cheese->Mushroom->Fancy->Super->Rare Veggie IIRC)

While I’d love a reduction in the ingredients for Garlic Kale Saute here, I don’t see them giving us a 90% reduction – maybe 25%?

Did you take into account that every time after Cheese Pizza, the other pizzas leading up to the Rare Veggie are doubled? So unless my quick calculations are off, for every 1 Cheese Pizza you end up with 8 Rare Veggie Pizzas.

Paul Belz.7351:

The new food buffs last twice as long as other food buffs i believe.

That’s all well and good, but the requirements to make them are significantly more than double. And since food stacks, I don’t see 10x the cost/materials for twice the duration as a good investment at all.

I’m all for new cooking recipes and new stat combinations for consumables, but I really think you guys should go back to the drawing board on these new recipes.

There are many recipes that need adjusting, like anything that uses karka shells or passion flowers. Ever try to make an exotic ring using those?

On the bright side, this is the first post by anyone at ANET in the crafting forums in months. At least we know that 1 person reads this forum on occasion.

Paul Belz.7351:

The new food buffs last twice as long as other food buffs i believe.

Buff = 2x as long

Cost = 20x more

There is an order of magnitude disparity between them, that is the issue.

Yep but we wont get any replies now that it has been pointed out I’d wager

Aveneo.2068:

Rajani Isa.6294:

Cyto.9401:

lets look at this is a way where merchanters did not mess up the trade post, lets say on the 28th of April.

at that time the rare veggie pizza costs 5s00c BUT it lasts only half as long as a Bowl of Garlic Kale Sautee, so to even that out, it will take 10s00c to get a full hour of the same stats.
now lets take a look at the prices for the ingredients on the 28th of April
head of garlic: 50c
since you need 20 of those, that is 50c x 20 = 10s00c …

well unless the other ingredients cost less then zero this recipe is never going to get used for nothing.

more math:
1g = 20 x rare veggie pizza = 10 hours of 40%condition duration and 70 condition damage
1g = 3 x bowl of garlic kale sautee = 3 hours of 40%condition duration and 70 condition damage

let me just make like an angry video game nerd and say: WHAT WHERE THEY THINKING

solutions: divide the amount of garlic and kale required by 10.

Looking at Rare Veggie Pizza in GW2DB.com, the cost to CREATE it is over 70s. While people are selling it for very little, that’s a major hole (unless they made a lot from leveling up cooking) considering how much some of the ingredients costs.

Rare Veggie Pizza is also something like a 5th generation pizza. (Cheese->Mushroom->Fancy->Super->Rare Veggie IIRC)

While I’d love a reduction in the ingredients for Garlic Kale Saute here, I don’t see them giving us a 90% reduction – maybe 25%?

Did you take into account that every time after Cheese Pizza, the other pizzas leading up to the Rare Veggie are doubled? So unless my quick calculations are off, for every 1 Cheese Pizza you end up with 8 Rare Veggie Pizzas.

I believe that’s correct but each iteration requires an addition of other ingredients there isn’t a direct result of 8 rare veggies in the end. ie the cheese pizza isnt the deciding factor in the end imo

This is just A-nets secret plot for world Vegie. Domination! Muwaahahaha

Seriously though, it makes perfect sense to reduce the amount necessary to create the recipe.
I do not agree we should be basing a recipe upon it’s TP cost. The TP will constantly fluctuate. The total materials for an item would never. Therefor, basing the Material requirements upon prior recipes in the line is much more logical.

I work as a chef in real life, and some of the components of these are just beyond reasonable. Now, I realize this is just a game but think about this: There are flavour palettes in this world that can’t barely handle a half of a jalapeno in their meal. Why on earth would you need a double digit of ghost peppers in one item?

Really destroys a suspension of disbelief here. Not that there aren’t a hundred other ways it gets ruined. But this one got my attention specifically.

Aveneo.2068:

Rajani Isa.6294:

Cyto.9401:

lets look at this is a way where merchanters did not mess up the trade post, lets say on the 28th of April.

at that time the rare veggie pizza costs 5s00c BUT it lasts only half as long as a Bowl of Garlic Kale Sautee, so to even that out, it will take 10s00c to get a full hour of the same stats.
now lets take a look at the prices for the ingredients on the 28th of April
head of garlic: 50c
since you need 20 of those, that is 50c x 20 = 10s00c …

well unless the other ingredients cost less then zero this recipe is never going to get used for nothing.

more math:
1g = 20 x rare veggie pizza = 10 hours of 40%condition duration and 70 condition damage
1g = 3 x bowl of garlic kale sautee = 3 hours of 40%condition duration and 70 condition damage

let me just make like an angry video game nerd and say: WHAT WHERE THEY THINKING

solutions: divide the amount of garlic and kale required by 10.

Looking at Rare Veggie Pizza in GW2DB.com, the cost to CREATE it is over 70s. While people are selling it for very little, that’s a major hole (unless they made a lot from leveling up cooking) considering how much some of the ingredients costs.

Rare Veggie Pizza is also something like a 5th generation pizza. (Cheese->Mushroom->Fancy->Super->Rare Veggie IIRC)

While I’d love a reduction in the ingredients for Garlic Kale Saute here, I don’t see them giving us a 90% reduction – maybe 25%?

Did you take into account that every time after Cheese Pizza, the other pizzas leading up to the Rare Veggie are doubled? So unless my quick calculations are off, for every 1 Cheese Pizza you end up with 8 Rare Veggie Pizzas.

Didn’t notice that, I admit, but going though and just using average BIDS you still end up at a minimum of 8-9s and 12+ karma per Rare pizza, as well as (previously mentioned) a bunch of refining.

And that’s assuming I did my math right while in a hurry to go to the movies. Later folks.

Paul Belz.7351:

The new food buffs last twice as long as other food buffs i believe.

darkace.8925:

That’s all well and good, but the requirements to make them are significantly more than double. And since food stacks, I don’t see 10x the cost/materials for twice the duration as a good investment at all.

I’m all for new cooking recipes and new stat combinations for consumables, but I really think you guys should go back to the drawing board on these new recipes.

^^This….

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Buff = 2x as long

Cost = 20x more

There is an order of magnitude disparity between them, that is the issue.

^^And this…

Double duration for over ten times the amount of ingredients is just not worth it, might as well have not added them at all for all the use they will see.

Spicy Marinated Mushroom
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spicy_Marinated_Mushroom

It takes longer to get the materials to make just one, that the duration of the buff.

x6 Cayenne Pepper
x10 Grilled Mushroom
x20 Grilled Portobello Mushroom
x10 Ghost Pepper

Here is a direct example illustrating where the concern with these new recipies is coming from.

(First let me point out that the only difference in these recipes is the duration and nothing else)
Mushroom Loaf vs. Plate of Orrian Steak Frittes:
Mushroom Loaf Yields 1 mushroom loaf

• 20 Portabello Mushrooms
• 20 Mushrooms
• 5 Rosemary Sprig
• 2 Balls of Dough
  • 2 sticks of butter
  • 2 jugs of water
  • 2 bags of flour

Plate of Orrian Steak Frittes Yields 1 Plate of Orrian Steak Frittes

• 1 Slab of Red Meat
• 1 Cup of Lotus Fries
  • 1 Lotus Root
  • 1 Jar of Vegetable Oil
  • 1 Pile of Salt and Pepper
    • 1 Packet of Salt
    • 1 Black Peppercorn

See the discrepancy?
The Plate of Orrian Steak Frittes only needs 3 items to be gathered per 30 minute buff, the rest of the ingredients are purchased from the master chef whereas the Mushroom loaf needs 47 items to be gathered per 60 minute buff and still needs item purchased from the master chef.

Am I glad new recipes were added? Absolutely.
Do these new recipes need to be adjusted? Absolutely.

How that adjustment comes about is another matter.
Is it ok to to reduce the amounts required? Sure if they are reduced enough.
However I think a better option would be to just increase the yield of the recipe. For example the recipe above should yield at least 8, preferably 10 mushroom loaves to be competitive with it’s 30 minute counterpart and I do think they should be competitive.

I do agree there should be a small ingredient tax on the convience of having the extended duration. The keyword there is ‘small’. As it stands now there is no tough choice to make. The 30 minute recipe wins by such a large margin that even if you were given the ingredients for the mushroom loaf you would be better of selling them and then making a mountain of steak frittes.

Xar.6185:

Here is a direct example illustrating where the concern with these new recipies is coming from.

(First let me point out that the only difference in these recipes is the duration and nothing else)
Mushroom Loaf vs. Plate of Orrian Steak Frittes:
Mushroom Loaf Yields 1 mushroom loaf

• 20 Portabello Mushrooms
• 20 Mushrooms
• 5 Rosemary Sprig
• 2 Balls of Dough
  • 2 sticks of butter
  • 2 jugs of water
  • 2 bags of flour

Plate of Orrian Steak Frittes Yields 1 Plate of Orrian Steak Frittes

• 1 Slab of Red Meat
• 1 Cup of Lotus Fries
  • 1 Lotus Root
  • 1 Jar of Vegetable Oil
  • 1 Pile of Salt and Pepper
    • 1 Packet of Salt
    • 1 Black Peppercorn

See the discrepancy?
The Plate of Orrian Steak Frittes only needs 3 items to be gathered per 30 minute buff, the rest of the ingredients are purchased from the master chef whereas the Mushroom loaf needs 47 items to be gathered per 60 minute buff and still needs item purchased from the master chef.

Am I glad new recipes were added? Absolutely.
Do these new recipes need to be adjusted? Absolutely.

How that adjustment comes about is another matter.
Is it ok to to reduce the amounts required? Sure if they are reduced enough.
However I think a better option would be to just increase the yield of the recipe. For example the recipe above should yield at least 8, preferably 10 mushroom loaves to be competitive with it’s 30 minute counterpart and I do think they should be competitive.

I do agree there should be a small ingredient tax on the convience of having the extended duration. The keyword there is ‘small’. As it stands now there is no tough choice to make. The 30 minute recipe wins by such a large margin that even if you were given the ingredients for the mushroom loaf you would be better of selling them and then making a mountain of steak frittes.

A couple of things related to your food comparison example. Currently, I think you can craft/buy mushroom loafs for about 6 silver. Now, I believe this is mostly a WvW type of food. When I run WvW, usually for about 3 hours in a row, I always forget to refresh my food buffs (many people do). Having a one hour buff is, at least to me, a luxury. It’s like the molten mining pick; I bought it because it’s convenient.

If you compare it against the cost of orrian stake frites, yes, the other one will be around 3 silver per hour (2 x half an hour of ~1.5 silver – which should rise btw due to black pepperkorn being required for grilled portobello mushroom, as well as due to the recent change to not make this mat gatherable anymore in half the areas in which it used to be available). However, the stats of this new food type are, at least for certain setups, arguably better. So per evening, I’d spend around 9 silver extra on food, which is convenient has better stats for my setup. To be quite frank, I’m not that fussed.

Lastly, I look at this against the bigger picture. There’s an overflow of low level mats on the market, and these recipes will help clear out the surplus/imbalance on those markets. Plus, quite frankly, the new buffs are very good and very convenient.

@Buttercup,

I totally agree about the conveinence factor.

My problem, issue or concern whatever you want to call it lies in exactly what you pointed out with the TP. Recipes should not be introduced based on cost of ingredients on the TP. The TP can flux then the whole balance is out of whack.

Are they going to keep adding recipes everytime the pricing on the TP shifts?

This is just my opinion, and it might be right or wrong or somewhere in the middle, but the ingredients should be based on gathering the items and what can be directly purchased from NPC vendors.

Right now you spend 9 extra silver. Would that still be ok if the TP shifts and you are spending 19, 29 or 39 extra silver?

Anyway I agree that there should be a bit of a conveinence tax for the double duration I just think that in the case of these new Flame & Frost recipes that it is too high.

Not that it matters anyway… I think at this point I am mostly talking to myself about this…

Oh and thank you for the WvW perspective. I was basing my opinion mostly of dungeons, fractal and general PvE. Always good to round out the information.

Xar.6185:

@Buttercup,

I totally agree about the conveinence factor.

My problem, issue or concern whatever you want to call it lies in exactly what you pointed out with the TP. Recipes should not be introduced based on cost of ingredients on the TP. The TP can flux then the whole balance is out of whack.

Are they going to keep adding recipes everytime the pricing on the TP shifts?

This is just my opinion, and it might be right or wrong or somewhere in the middle, but the ingredients should be based on gathering the items and what can be directly purchased from NPC vendors.

Right now you spend 9 extra silver. Would that still be ok if the TP shifts and you are spending 19, 29 or 39 extra silver?

Anyway I agree that there should be a bit of a conveinence tax for the double duration I just think that in the case of these new Flame & Frost recipes that it is too high.

Not that it matters anyway… I think at this point I am mostly talking to myself about this…

Oh and thank you for the WvW perspective. I was basing my opinion mostly of dungeons, fractal and general PvE. Always good to round out the information.

You’re welcome

Regarding the cost factor: if it becomes too expensive to make this particular food (mushroom loaf), people simply won’t by it. That’s the beauty of market forces. If, for example, the Rosemary sprig market goes out of control, people won’t make mushroom loaf, which means people won’t buy rosemary sprigs, which means that the cost of rosemary sprigs should come down until it’s at an acceptable level again. Same with orrian steak frites: if those hooked on mushroom loaf cannot afford it anymore, they will turn to orrian steak frites, which will spike the price of lotus roots (amongst others) which will lead to an increased price of orrian steak frites.

In other words: you may or may not be right; but let’s first have the market do its job, and see what happens. On a sidenote, let’s not forget that for the last 12 days people have probably invested (light/medium/heavy) in certain items based on the presumption that the recipes will stay as they are.

Buttercup.5871:

Xar.6185:

<snip>

You’re welcome

Regarding the cost factor: if it becomes too expensive to make this particular food (mushroom loaf), people simply won’t by it. That’s the beauty of market forces. If, for example, the Rosemary sprig market goes out of control, people won’t make mushroom loaf, which means people won’t buy rosemary sprigs, which means that the cost of rosemary sprigs should come down until it’s at an acceptable level again. Same with orrian steak frites: if those hooked on mushroom loaf cannot afford it anymore, they will turn to orrian steak frites, which will spike the price of lotus roots (amongst others) which will lead to an increased price of orrian steak frites.

The market see-sawing is why I think they should have used the gathering instead of the TP prices to balance the cost of the new recipes. If the market is riding a wave, following trends or some other term for prices fluctuating how could they hope to balance more new recipes?

Ultimately more new recipes is what I want. I just have doubts that using the TP prices is the most effiecient way to ensure that more recipes will keep coming. Especially as each (warning: incoming pun intended) ‘flavor’ of the month recipe swings the balance on the TP. Making it harder to determine where, how and what to add for each one.

You are right about the investors. That is why I think a better way to ‘fix’ these particular recipes is to increase the yield from 1 to a lot more than 1.