Guild Wars 2

Well, after seeing the latest replies, I’m going to duck out for today. I can only take so much verbal abuse, accusations, and hasty assumptions. Clearly, I’ve touched a nerve without intending to. I realize my message is not necessarily pleasant to hear at first, but I do think it’s what some people need to hear. I have nothing against people doing what makes them happy, and achieving their goals.

When what you are doing is making you unhappy, however, and your goals are unrealistic, the best thing to do is set different goals. I know I can be long-winded, but that’s the gist of what I’m trying to put out there, it doesn’t have to be a bad thing. In fact, you might find it liberating if you changed your outlook on legendary weapons as more of a dream than a goal, because I doubt Arenanet is going to make them any easier to get w/o reducing the extravagance of their effects for performance and aesthetic reasons.

Cheers.

replace rng with skill. skill will keep them legendary and away from the masses of gw2:-P skill could be beating some impossible soloable boss or dunguen or something like that. rng and market profiteering are what make people mad as hell

finally i can log in, it was about time..
first of all, lol jihoko you clearly have no idea what your talkin about…

legendary weapons got introduced shortly before launch and after the mystic forge appeared the first time in bwe2. they are the current endgame. the word “legendary” doesnt say that only a few chosen people should ever be able to own them.. what kind of philosophie is that? not the one of a great game. so you are wrong, everyone should be able to obtain everything. its a game! the only things you cannot have are owned by gamemasters and developers.

legendary weapons were never intended to be in the game.. thats why ghastly weapons look better at night than most legendarys all the time. but how do you keep people interrested in the endgame if they dont want to level another char, run dungeons all the time or zerg in wvw.. they need a long term goal…. and so the legendary’s were born.

actually while doin my story quest my sylvari npc friend owned a legendary weapon which is not obtainable by any player… dont know the name currently…
however.. at first the idea was that legendary weapons reflect the hard work you did and that you spent some quality time ingame…

now the current system is clearly quickly put together.. the receip at bwe for legendary were different, more easy, too easy… but actually, there is nothing (but legendary) ingame that will take you more than two weeks to obtain.

how do you make it that people need more time than two weeks?
two weeks for a legendary was not long enough..

i have an idea.. make it need 2000 token of each dungeon…
but then we have a problem, those items only stack in 250
too much inventory, or not? would be only a little sacifice…

however.. the current system of GAMBLING i cannot support.
there is nothing legendary about it.. why not open a casino?
let us play poker and blackjack..
lol send out yearly emails and one in a million gets a legendary.
they basikittenhe same ideas then the current system.

however.. add more legendary weapons & remove the gambling or increase chance by alot!

however.. add more legendary weapons & remove the gambling or increase chance by alot!i did play alot, at least 8-20h a day..
im not after the big money so i dont try to earn as fast and much as possible.
my normal daily income is around 2-4 gold a day, maybe sometimes only 1 gold (which are 2-4 dungeon runs! no failgroups included) and yeah i dont farm in cursed shore, maybe i should.. but why? to destroy everything in the forge for a chance?

however.. add more legendary weapons & remove the gambling or increase chance by alot!i did play alot, at least 8-20h a day..
im not after the big money so i dont try to earn as fast and much as possible.
my normal daily income is around 2-4 gold a day, maybe sometimes only 1 gold (which are 2-4 dungeon runs! no failgroups included) and yeah i dont farm in cursed shore, maybe i should.. but why? to destroy everything in the forge for a chance?at this rate it is impossible for me to ever have enough money to buy a precusor of the tp. so in half a year i have 8 chars all level 80 all exotic dungeon geared and noone of them has a legendary? im goin to have half a million gold and im surely not spending it to one lucky dude for a cosmetic item (which doesnt even change the skills or animation on all skills (hopefully still work in progress))

however.. add more legendary weapons & remove the gambling or increase chance by alot!i did play alot, at least 8-20h a day..
im not after the big money so i dont try to earn as fast and much as possible.
my normal daily income is around 2-4 gold a day, maybe sometimes only 1 gold (which are 2-4 dungeon runs! no failgroups included) and yeah i dont farm in cursed shore, maybe i should.. but why? to destroy everything in the forge for a chance?at this rate it is impossible for me to ever have enough money to buy a precusor of the tp. so in half a year i have 8 chars all level 80 all exotic dungeon geared and noone of them has a legendary? im goin to have half a million gold and im surely not spending it to one lucky dude for a cosmetic item (which doesnt even change the skills or animation on all skills (hopefully still work in progress))shoot, like jihoko i also talk alot without any real point..
fact is, the current legendary system makes me want to stop playing the game.
it needs some serious rework!

Thank you Linsey.

I’m really glad to hear that this issue is not being ignored. Honestly, I do believe something will have to be changed about the precursors sooner or later so it’s good to know that you won’t let these items from becoming more and more expensive or worse, from becoming so rare they would almost never appear on the TP again.

I had a flashback of good old Vanilla WoW and Epic Class Quest. As a hunter, you had to kill some bosses for items to drop, than did some manipulations with them, and then you get a quest to kill 6 elite demons all by yourself, no help from outside. Weapons for quest were pretty much same stats as any other epic weap, but they had unique cool particle effects.

Guess what, Jihoko? Not every person had them or tried to get them. Turns out, cool particles isn’t enough to make people struggle so much to get one just to show off. There is definetely a better way to make legendaries still remain “legendary” without farming like there is no tommorow to buy precursor or gambling with mystic forge.

I’d just like to add something to the discussion.

Especially when dealing with significant investments (and I consider Exotic Weapons significant investments) there’s an acceptable range of RNG and there’s an unacceptable range.

I consider anything less than a 10% chance to be unacceptable. They had a similar loot system for PvP in SWTOR and it was universally hated. A mathematician can crunch the numbers but if the chance really is closer to 5% then that means a significant number of people will only have a 3% chance. That’s close to 140 Exotic weapons blown. And that’s only the less fortunate. The really unfortunate…oh my…

The thing with low RNG rates like that is that for every lucky guy who get’s his with a few tries you have another poor sod somewhere who’s becoming increasingly frustrated as RNG simply won’t favor him.

Relying on RNG is poor design.

The Mystic Forge in general is one of the most unfun aspects of the game. The best gambling games have aspects of both chance and skill, and the Mystic Forge does not involve the latter at all.

In gambling games that involve no skill, there’s usually some sort of tiered rewards system (slot machines) so that even if you’re not winning the jackpot, you’re not coming up completely empty handed every time. While it “sort of” has a tiered reward system, it’s more like a binary state than individual tiers. Either you get something that’s worth anything, or your four items become one of the same general value (or less). There’s no tier that gives you back your investment plus a little, no mid tier at all. It’s either jackpot on insanely low percentage, or nothing. Right now the Mystic Forge feels like a slot machine where your chances of winning are so low that you might as well go buy your own casino, because you’ll be a withered husk before it pays out.

It’s about as “fun” and “exciting” as bashing your face into a belt sander, or drinking sulphuric acid, or having needles driven into your finger/toenails, or gouging out your own eyes with a dull rusty spoon, or pulling your brain out through your nose with a hook all Egyptian mummy style.

Aphix.9846:

Karma is actually so easy to get especially after this update.
Badges apparently done in less then a week as well with alts.
Dungeon tokens – 180 per day…

All ectos and T6 mats can be bought from TP and u’ll probably get about 30% of them just farming karma.
I’m not worried about ANYTHING else, but the precursor. I only started farming for legendary 1 week ago, I decided to start from karma farming and I get a lot of cash + ectos + t6 mats while farming. I’ll need that cash for crafted gifts and icy runestones.
But after I have all 3 gifts I still need the precursor which is either 300 kittening gold for 1 item, or 0.1-1% chance from forge. Great stuff.

I can’t enjoy the game if I’d throw 100g into the forge and get nothing back, doesn’t work like that for me.

This is how I feel about it too.

I just recently made up my mind to go for it and mapped out what needs to happen. I don’t expect to have it in a week, but possibly in a month.

The grind, all things considered, is fine. Karma, Mats etc. can all be farmed organically while playing the game the way it was meant to be played.

But once you get all the gifts…you’re still left with the pre-cursor. And that’s where kitten gets real because this crucial element is left to a very sodding poor RNG mechanic.

The official response suggests that this probably isn’t the case.

LinseyMurdock.4165:

As a quick note, the higher the level and rarity of the things you are throwing into the forge, the better your chances of getting a Legendary Precursor.

LinseyMurdock.4165:

Nebilim.5127:

Can you define rarity lynsey? Do you mean just any level 80 exotics or do you mean extremely hard to get exotics like named ones? Do crafted weapons constitute as less rare?

Though not all Exotics are “created equal” they are all of the same rarity: Exotic.

Jihoko.3927:

Well, after seeing the latest replies, I’m going to duck out for today. I can only take so much verbal abuse, accusations, and hasty assumptions. Clearly, I’ve touched a nerve without intending to. I realize my message is not necessarily pleasant to hear at first, but I do think it’s what some people need to hear. I have nothing against people doing what makes them happy, and achieving their goals.

When what you are doing is making you unhappy, however, and your goals are unrealistic, the best thing to do is set different goals. I know I can be long-winded, but that’s the gist of what I’m trying to put out there, it doesn’t have to be a bad thing. In fact, you might find it liberating if you changed your outlook on legendary weapons as more of a dream than a goal, because I doubt Arenanet is going to make them any easier to get w/o reducing the extravagance of their effects for performance and aesthetic reasons.

Cheers.

I read some of your posts and I ahve to say you have indeed touched a nerve and I can tell you why. Because you’re a condescending kitten!

Aparently you don’t care for passive agressive so I’ll just skip the passive part. You’re seriously going to tell an entire thread of people whom you’ve never met in your life, that they should adjust their goals because for them they are unrealistic? Do you talk to people like that in real life? Do people respond positively when you talk to them like that? What did you expect?

Besides, even with an improved attitude (which you sorely need) you’re still completely wrong in your ideas. First of all Anet made the legendaries incredibly hard to acquire and that’s what’s going to stop the majority of the population from obtaining them. That doesn’t however mean that Anet is actively trying to block 99.9% of the population from obtaining them. Have you even bothered to read the first post of the thread? They’re already concerned that the precursors are getting too expensive so I doubt they’ll let them get much worse.

Secondly, you completely misjudged what the players here are complaining about. You’re assuming that if we got a specific recipe, it would make people think it’s too much and not go for it? You’re telling us we’d be happier if we settled for smaller goals inside a friggin’ game???

And thirdly, The legendaries ARE intended to be endgame. It’s been stated in one way or another like every single time Anet was talking about them.

http://en-gb.twitch.tv/guildwars2/b/324689481
This is the first video from Anet mentioning legendaries. They talk about them in context of what is there to do in Guild Wars 2 for ENDGAME.

People keep asking “Why is there no recipe!? Why can’t this be a reward. Why does Anet make us gamble?!”

The answer is so simple.

There is gold coming into the game through many means, but there also needs to be gold coming out. Its in every MMO!

So they start off with:
15% Tax (hugee gold sink)
Waypoint costs (goooldd sink)
Repair costs (le sink le gold)

but holy sheeet dude, the mystic forge is the best creation for a gold sink that an mmo has thought of.
Talk about a big con or something and you got it right here.

The mystic forge isn’t actually a gold sink; it’s an item sink; the two are quite different.

Shogoki.2085:

I don’t understand people complaining about it being too difficult to create a legendary – if it’s not worth the effort in your eyes, then don’t do it.

It’s not difficult, it’s random. Know the difference.

AnotherJaggens.1396:

Shogoki.2085:

I don’t understand people complaining about it being too difficult to create a legendary – if it’s not worth the effort in your eyes, then don’t do it.

It’s not difficult, it’s random. Know the difference.

Exactly. Equating low chance gambling in a no-skill gambling game with “difficulty” is absurd. It’s not difficult, it’s tedious and annoying.

A set recipe could easily be both more challenging and difficult, interesting and exciting, than this lazy random number generator item sink. It’s boring, it’s annoying and it’s the opposite of fun because there is zero interaction. Put 4 items in, either get lucky and get something halfway decent, or you just wasted 3 items. Repeat 2000-3000 times and you might get a legendary precursor out of it. Or not, you might just be “unlucky” and be out all of those resources/time/gold. Great. Meanwhile the Godskull weapons cheaters made dozens of them for 60s each. So difficult.

The problem with the Mystic Forge is that it’s random which makes it boring and annoying. Nothing about it is remotely difficult or even interesting. It’s just a giant unfun slog to throw thousands of items at until the pseudo-random number generator might decide to hit its extremely low chance to actually give you something good.

It’s one of the most boring anti-fun designs I’ve ever seen put into a game, and is not very “legendary” at all. More like face-numbingly boring and annoying.

I was willing to accept the boring grind for the rest of the legendary, but when the precursor is twice as bad or more, that’s just insane. You might as well say “If you’re not a cheater that made dozens of these off the Godskull exploit, just quit the game now because there’s nothing here for you.” That’s what it amounts to.

LinseyMurdock.4165:

We did fix a few bugged recipes that were rewarding Legendary precursors more often than they should have been. These recipes were mostly using Rares in the level 70-75 range and mostly affected the precursors for the greatswords and the dagger. This has had some effect on the drop rate when using lower level rares to attempt to get a precursor but it was never intended for that to be the best way of acquiring these weapons. The recipes for throwing in level 80 exotics have not changed at all.

What about level 80 rares?
Many people seem to think that the chance of getting an exotic (any exotic, not just precursors) from 4 level 80 rares is significantly lower than it used to be. Can you shed any light on this?

Is this simply a case of mass hysteria, or was the rate of exotics for level 80 rares also higher than it was supposed to be, or is the current rate an unintended bug?

Shogoki.2085:

AnotherJaggens.1396:

Shogoki.2085:

I don’t understand people complaining about it being too difficult to create a legendary – if it’s not worth the effort in your eyes, then don’t do it.

It’s not difficult, it’s random. Know the difference.

Random luck in the Mystic Forge is one option you can take if you want to. If you don’t want to, you can set a buy order on the Trading Post and buy one.

Why would I promote gambling and wealth through luck, rather than being good at what you are doing? That already brought us to Dusk (an exotic weapon, mind you) priced at 200 usd. Doesn’t seem healthy for a market.

Making base weapons more RNG based to obtain DOES NOT MAKE LEGENDARIES HARDER TO OBTAIN

All it does is make it require more RNG.

The increase in rarity on the base weapons made them value at 80% or more of the total value of a legendary weapon.

80% of getting a legendary is based on throwing a 5000 sided dice and getting a specific number

someone had their head on backwards when they thought this was good game design

I’m really happy I got this part of my legendary out of the way on launch, before this stupid move was made.

Let me put on my game design hat for this.

Want to make a legendary cost more money?

• Increase the price of icy lodestones, or increase the amount of ecto needed.

Want to make taking a legendary take longer?

• Increase the skill point requirement, or the karma requirement.

Want to make people hate the game and question the developers sanity?

• Take a component for the legendary that used to have a reasonable chance of obtaining it trough the forge or had the alternative of buying it at a reasonable price and change it so that it’s rarer than winning the lottery or more expensive than any of the other components for the legendary combined.

this has nothing to do with making legendaries rarer or harder to get

All this does is make it MORE RANDOM

I just wish some of the Precursors shared their skin, I’m looking at you The Hunter. The only same skin item is the PvP Plated Sniper Rifle. Nothing else shares it. I love the skin it uses, it’s what I want to get, I do not want the legendary that goes along with it(I’m not a huge fan of how it looks). So I have to struggle to either make a constantly rising 150g or continue to throw rifles at the MF hoping I get the item I want. I’d be extremely happy if it shared it’s skin with something else considering I don’t even want to be apart of this current Legendary grind and yet just because of my weapon skin preference I’m dragged into this mess that has been going on the last couple weeks. I really dislike the current RNG to get a lot of items out of the forge and I’m not asking for a super duper easy way, but a set way so some of us can at least set goals to get what we want. This sink hole is really ruining my enjoyment of the game, my armor look which is almost finished now has some meaning to it, I had a blast with friends doing dungeons, when and if I finally get this rifle I’m just going to feel drained because I’ve been sucked dry by the MF. And I think that is how a lot of people feel about the current way the system works.

Excellent post Shogoki, I couldn’t agree more. Especially this:

“So you’re prepared to spend 120g, farm thousands of expensive crafting materials, plus all the karma and skill points, for various components to create the legendary. If spending another X gold (where X could be anything from 50 to 250) for the precursor component on top of that is suddenly a dealbreaker, then re-evaluate whether you still think the legendary is worth it.”

I personally appreciate the additional market that’s been created through the precursor system, but I suppose that’s just me.

AnotherJaggens.1396:

Why would I promote gambling and wealth through luck, rather than being good at what you are doing? That already brought us to Dusk (an exotic weapon, mind you) priced at 200 usd. Doesn’t seem healthy for a market.

So what if Dusk is merely an exotic? Exotics are not all created equal, and there is no reason at all for their pricing to be similar.

The mere fact that it is a legendary precursor is entirely sufficient reason for it to command a vastly higher price.

Moreover, there are other non-precursor items that command similar prices. For example, the Triforge Pendant is being sold at 85g, and Jormag’s needle is being sold at 90g (which is not unreasonable when you consider that it costs as much as ~70g to make). On the other hand, some legendary precursors are being sold as cheaply as 16g (in the case of Venom).

Also, ~300g is still less than half of the total cost of a legendary, which is hardly disproportionate.

Cerise.9045:

Making base weapons more RNG based to obtain DOES NOT MAKE LEGENDARIES HARDER TO OBTAIN

Actually, despite your bold, italics, and capitals, it does.

Cerise.9045:

this has nothing to do with making legendaries rarer or harder to get

While I won’t speculate on the reasons for ArenaNet choosing RNG as the source of precursors, I definitely can speak about the effects. The lower the chance of getting a precursor from the recipe, the rarer it becomes, and the harder it is to get.

Hate to say it but I am not even going to waste my time with the legendaries. Seriousley whats the point. The people that have exploited the game have been given a free pass to exploit the game again via the trading post. That and the rampant botting is beginning to make the game unplayable. wait the botters are exploiting the game FREE PASS

Using the trading post to buy and sell items is not “exploiting the game”.

If some people are getting away with buying legendaries cheaply and reselling them for higher prices, then this is because other people are willing to sell them at low prices and buy them at high ones. If you want to have someone to blame, blame those people.

Hoffman.7543:

Excellent post Shogoki, I couldn’t agree more. Especially this:

“So you’re prepared to spend 120g, farm thousands of expensive crafting materials, plus all the karma and skill points, for various components to create the legendary. If spending another X gold (where X could be anything from 50 to 250) for the precursor component on top of that is suddenly a dealbreaker, then re-evaluate whether you still think the legendary is worth it.”

I personally appreciate the additional market that’s been created through the precursor system, but I suppose that’s just me.

Good lord. You bothered to read through his three posts of repeating the same thing and ignoring what other people have said, but you STILL ignored what other people had said too?

It. Is. Entirely. Possible. For. The. Precursor. Prices.To. Rise. Faster.Than.People.Can.Earn.

It is NOT THE CURRENT PRICES THAT BOTHER PEOPLE. It’s the idea that by the time they earn 250g, the price will be 300. By the time they earn 300, it’ll be 425. Essentially, they can get all the other requirements themselves, with a little elbow grease, but they could potentially never afford the precursor (and due to luck, potentially never get it from the Mystic Forge either).

What people don’t think is “worth it” is a huge RNG-fest and a sliding goalpost.

Cerise.9045:

Making base weapons more RNG based to obtain DOES NOT MAKE LEGENDARIES HARDER TO OBTAIN

All it does is make it require more RNG.

The increase in rarity on the base weapons made them value at 80% or more of the total value of a legendary weapon.

80% of getting a legendary is based on throwing a 5000 sided dice and getting a specific number

someone had their head on backwards when they thought this was good game design

Yep, easily the worst design I’ve seen in ages for this type of item. It’s the opposite of interesting, fun, exciting, rewarding, or any good thing you could possibly say to describe it. It’s a boring slog and costs more resources than the rest of the process. It’s absurd and annoying in the extreme.

If the intent is that acquiring the precusor should be the most unfun process ever to be conceived of and put into a game, I guess that’s a resounding success.

Rainshine.5493:

It’s the idea that by the time they earn 250g, the price will be 300. By the time they earn 300, it’ll be 425. Essentially, they can get all the other requirements themselves, with a little elbow grease, but they could potentially never afford the precursor (and due to luck, potentially never get it from the Mystic Forge either).

What people don’t think is “worth it” is a huge RNG-fest and a sliding goalpost.

This is spot on, and the exact thing that all these high and mighty “Oh em gee you, dirty peasant, are not intended to ever attain a precursor. Only the select mighty few (like myself) should ever have the chance to attain one.” don’t get is that no one will get them if the goal post is constantly moving into the distance (either by the hands of the Godskull cheaters manipulating the market, or ArenaNet nerfing the Mystic Forge) means that no player will ever “catch up”, regardless of their dedication or time playing the game.

Right now the only thing that a precursor says about you is that you are either a Godskull cheater or you paid thousands in real money for gems to buy the Godskull-cheater inflated precursor from the Trading Post. Yeah, so difficult and rewarding.

Rainshine.5493:

It. Is. Entirely. Possible. For. The. Precursor. Prices.To. Rise. Faster.Than.People.Can.Earn.

Only for a relatively short period of time.

lackofcheese.5617:

Using the trading post to buy and sell items is not “exploiting the game”.

It is when you are using exploited gold to do it.

lackofcheese.5617:

Rainshine.5493:

It. Is. Entirely. Possible. For. The. Precursor. Prices.To. Rise. Faster.Than.People.Can.Earn.

Only for a relatively short period of time.

How can you be sure? Wealth can be shifted around dramatically/accumulated rapidly and ad infinitum in this game thanks to gems.

ChairGraveyard.2967:

Yep, easily the worst design I’ve seen in ages for this type of item. It’s the opposite of interesting, fun, exciting, rewarding, or any good thing you could possibly say to describe it. It’s a boring slog and costs more resources than the rest of the process.

It doesn’t.

Also, how is it any more of a “boring slog” than, say, grinding for karma or gold?

lackofcheese.5617:

AnotherJaggens.1396:

Why would I promote gambling and wealth through luck, rather than being good at what you are doing? That already brought us to Dusk (an exotic weapon, mind you) priced at 200 usd. Doesn’t seem healthy for a market.

So what if Dusk is merely an exotic? Exotics are not all created equal, and there is no reason at all for their pricing to be similar.

The mere fact that it is a legendary precursor is entirely sufficient reason for it to command a vastly higher price.

Moreover, there are other non-precursor items that command similar prices. For example, the Triforge Pendant is being sold at 85g, and Jormag’s needle is being sold at 90g (which is not unreasonable when you consider that it costs as much as ~70g to make). On the other hand, some legendary precursors are being sold as cheaply as 16g (in the case of Venom).

Also, ~300g is still less than half of the total cost of a legendary, which is hardly disproportionate.

Um, no, that was a selling point of game – all endgame gear is equal. Different models, but stats are all equal to each other. Your example of Jormag’s Needle is misleading – there is 1 (one) for 90g right now being sold on TP, and all buy offers are barely past 5g mark, which marks it’s worth. If you compare it to Spark – 20 times difference in prices. Triforge Pendant is somewhat different in stats compared to other level 80 extotics, so it’s a justified price.

So, in your opinion 200 usd price for a different model and a chance to go on aventure of gathering another 200+ usd (no idea where did you get that number, but we’ll roll with it) worth of resources is completely justified, am I right?

lackofcheese.5617:

ChairGraveyard.2967:

Yep, easily the worst design I’ve seen in ages for this type of item. It’s the opposite of interesting, fun, exciting, rewarding, or any good thing you could possibly say to describe it. It’s a boring slog and costs more resources than the rest of the process.

It doesn’t.

Also, how is it any more of a “boring slog” than, say, grinding for karma or gold?

It’s not, but at least I don’t have to slog through a 20,000 karma grind, throw it into the Mystic Forge, and hope all that time I grinded karma didn’t just disappear into RNG limbo.

Well some of you approving current state of the Legendary Precursors like 300+ gold. So i really wish developers will check ( with ip range ) your inventory and trade history for that.

How many Legendary Precursors have you sold or how many you got in your history or how many you have already…

Still some of you don’t get it.. Gold and Item Sellers using them for getting more and more gold for selling some ppl again.

Gold Seller > Farming Enough Gold > Buying or Using Cheat for getting Legendary Precursors > Selling for real money > Getting more Legendary Precursors > Selling for real money… …. …. ….

Not A.Net or players winning.. Only just only gold / item sellers…

So it’s why it must be have it own recipe and account bound..

I know I’d be happy with a semi-difficult recipe that makes them account bound. At least then people can set solid goals.

lackofcheese.5617:

Cerise.9045:

Making base weapons more RNG based to obtain DOES NOT MAKE LEGENDARIES HARDER TO OBTAIN

Actually, despite your bold, italics, and capitals, it does.

Cerise.9045:

this has nothing to do with making legendaries rarer or harder to get

While I won’t speculate on the reasons for ArenaNet choosing RNG as the source of precursors, I definitely can speak about the effects. The lower the chance of getting a precursor from the recipe, the rarer it becomes, and the harder it is to get.

The 5 base weapons in my bank say otherwise.

It’s just RNG.

Shogoki.2085:

What’s the difference between buying a precursor from the Trading Post for 150g, or them increasing the price of Icy Lodestones so that it costs 150g more?

Because Icy Runestones are sold from an NPC vendor. They will always be the same price, so no matter how slowly you acquire wealth, you WILL eventually be able to buy them all if you find the legendary worth the effort.

With the current system you either subject yourself to the RNG (and still maybe never get one) or you have to compete with other players’ disposable income.

Chentally Mallenged.2867:

lackofcheese.5617:

Using the trading post to buy and sell items is not “exploiting the game”.

It is when you are using exploited gold to do it.

Yes, it sucks that some people seem to have gotten away with making lots of gold due to exploits. I agree with that. However, the problem there is not the TP, it’s the exploits.

Rainshine.5493:

lackofcheese.5617:

Rainshine.5493:

It. Is. Entirely. Possible. For. The. Precursor. Prices.To. Rise. Faster.Than.People.Can.Earn.

Only for a relatively short period of time.

How can you be sure? Wealth can be shifted around dramatically/accumulated rapidly and ad infinitum in this game thanks to gems.

I don’t see what gems have to do with this.

The probability of getting a precursor out of the forge sets a soft cap on its price. If the drop rate is 0.1% from every 4 rares, it can’t rise significantly above the price of 4000 rares.

Yes, it’s possible that the prices of the rares will rise accordingly, but if that’s the case then the materials will also rise in price, and since you will always be able to farm those materials, it is impossible for it to rise indefinitely.

Let me put this to you in terms of an offer – you farm the materials needed to make 5000 rares, and I’ll trade you a precursor for those materials. Assuming the drop rate isn’t much lower than 0.1%, that is a trade that I would always be willing to make, because a precursor cannot be worth more than 5000 rares.

Basically, if you can farm 5000 rares, you can farm a 100% guaranteed precursor. Yes, you could easily get 2 or 3 precursors putting those 5000 rares in the forge, but if you don’t want to take that risk, someone else will be willing to take it for you (for a premium, of course). Hell, if I was more confident of what the drop rates actually are, I’d be happy to make that agreement with you right now.

Whatever the drop rate happens to be, there will be some number X such that the materials needed to make X rares will be worth more than a legendary precursor.

Rainshine.5493:

Shogoki.2085:

What’s the difference between buying a precursor from the Trading Post for 150g, or them increasing the price of Icy Lodestones so that it costs 150g more?

Because Icy Runestones are sold from an NPC vendor. They will always be the same price, so no matter how slowly you acquire wealth, you WILL eventually be able to buy them all if you find the legendary worth the effort.

With the current system you either subject yourself to the RNG (and still maybe never get one) or you have to compete with other players’ disposable income.

I wanna repeat myself again… or just look couple post above..

Gold Seller > Farming Enough Gold > Buying or Using Cheat for getting Legendary Precursors > Selling for real money > Getting more Legendary Precursors > Selling for real money… …. …. ….

Not A.Net or players winning.. Only just only gold / item sellers…

So it’s why it must be have it own recipe and account bound..

@Shogoki.2085
How do you fight with smugglers, cheaters and thieves in basic economics ?

This game does not have “smugglers” and “thieves”; no one can steal your items, and no one can force you to sell a precursor to them for 200g so that they get to resell it for 300g.

It sucks that people have gotten away with exploiting, but any time someone makes a profit on the trading post it’s just as much the fault of the people who trade with them as it is theirs.

i didn’t say this for game.. i said in basic economics for real life…. and so asked Shogoki.2085..

But i can say cheating and exploiting equal with smugling and robbery..

Shogoki.2085:

Rainshine.5493:

lackofcheese.5617:

Rainshine.5493:

It. Is. Entirely. Possible. For. The. Precursor. Prices.To. Rise. Faster.Than.People.Can.Earn.

Only for a relatively short period of time.

How can you be sure? Wealth can be shifted around dramatically/accumulated rapidly and ad infinitum in this game thanks to gems.

An item is only worth what people will pay for it. If they raise the prices out of reach of anyone, then nothing will sell, so the prices will have to come back down. It’s basic economics.

And if there are people out there willing to put hundreds of (real) dollars into gems and buy it at ridiculous prices, I’m SoL. The supply appears limited enough that unless I am in the top earning percentile (or have plenty of disposable income that I am willing to throw into virtual goodies) it is out of my reach.

None of this convinces me that with the current system I am ever likely to afford it. People who put more time into the game, who are more efficient than me, who play the market well — they should all get a Legendary much, much faster than me. But imo the big “endgame” of a game should not be unattainable to all but the absolute richest.

If the prices on precursors keep going up and you can’t afford one – it means you’re not good enough to have a legendary. As Legendary items they are meant for the BEST players. They are NOT a long-term goal for half of the population. If you disagree with this… then too bad I guess? You don’t get to say how this game should be. And the current situation is how it should be. As stated by some other people in this thread, legendary items should be indeed legendary (you know the definition of the word legendary right?) and not “half of the players in the game own an item with the legendary tag”.

HOWEVER, given the fact that precursor supply isn’t limited, more and more of them will be created in the game. Eventually the best players will all have a legendary and at that point the mediocre players will be able to afford precursors. So in a way it still is a viable long-term goal for many people.

Alright fine, you guys are right, this new system is perfect the way it is, the old system where the chances of getting a base weapon with enough tries was more reasonable was terrible.

You win, lets encourage arenet to keep the changes, I’ll keep making hundreds of gold off this new system.

I’d throw that idea to you again while on topic of pricing – 24 or 48 hours on item placement. You put an item on TP and pay a fee depending on price you set on an item, but this will last only set amount of time. It will starve out those guys, that accumulated 16 Dusks pretty fast and they will be forced to go for less profit before lost too much on that fee, and prices will eventually end up at point when they are actually reasonable, whenever it’s 50g or 200g for precursor gs.

hey miss Lindsey i have a question. since there are two greatswords, is the chance of getting either one halved? or is it the same? thanks in advance

Cerise.9045:

Alright fine, you guys are right, this new system is perfect the way it is, the old system where the chances of getting a base weapon with enough tries was more reasonable was terrible.

You win, lets encourage arenet to keep the changes, I’ll keep making hundreds of gold off this new system.

Good for you but are you sure you readed first post of this topic ? And if you are angry for it going to cut your earnings sorry bud but we are talking here for greater good not for personal story and gains.

Cerise.9045:

Alright fine, you guys are right, this new system is perfect the way it is, the old system where the chances of getting a base weapon with enough tries was more reasonable was terrible.

You win, lets encourage arenet to keep the changes, I’ll keep making hundreds of gold off this new system.

Wish I had your resources. But at least we found a concensus, right?

Cerise.9045:

lackofcheese.5617:

Cerise.9045:

Making base weapons more RNG based to obtain DOES NOT MAKE LEGENDARIES HARDER TO OBTAIN

Actually, despite your bold, italics, and capitals, it does.

Cerise.9045:

this has nothing to do with making legendaries rarer or harder to get

While I won’t speculate on the reasons for ArenaNet choosing RNG as the source of precursors, I definitely can speak about the effects. The lower the chance of getting a precursor from the recipe, the rarer it becomes, and the harder it is to get.

The 5 base weapons in my bank say otherwise.

It’s just RNG.

When you’re considering uncertain outcomes, you can’t just look judge based on one possible outcome. You got lucky; so what?

When looking at uncertain outcomes, you have to look at the average (or rather, expected value) of the outcomes, and not just the one outcome. Yes, some people win the lottery, but at the same time quite a lot of other people buy thousands of tickets without winning it.

Now, if the time it takes doesn’t really factor into what you mean by “hard”, then I’m willing to agree, but based on that notion of “hard” nothing about a legendary is hard – only time-consuming.

In any case, you’re just straight-up wrong in suggesting that lower chances don’t make precursors rarer. Of course they do. If the chance were ten times higher, then on average there would be approximately ten times as many precursors going around. If it were ten times lower, then on average there would be approximately ten times fewer.

Also, since you probably got those precursors before ArenaNet’s fix to the chances from putting in rares, you’re quite possibly an unwitting exploiter (this also depends on how things did/were supposed to/are working for level 80 rares, which we haven’t heard about yet). I’m not saying that you did it on purpose, of course, but if the chance was higher and it wasn’t supposed to be, then benefiting from this is exploiting – after all, the definition of an exploit is, quite simply, benefiting from unintended flaws in the game.

Shogoki.2085:

azazil.9541:

@Shogoki.2085
How do you fight with smugglers, cheaters and thieves in basic economics ?

You don’t – that’s a matter for the law, not for economics. If there’s cheating going on, then it’s up to ArenaNet to stop that, but it has nothing to do with making items cheaper or being obtained in different ways. As far as I’m aware all previous methods of cheating have been patched.

If you say that so you must read and search more for economics but you are wrong and this is wrong topic for arguing for it. Google is your best friend.

Anyways lets stay on topic and so I hope Linsey or another one will answer or check this topic soon cuz its going to out of route as always.

azazil.9541:

Cerise.9045:

Alright fine, you guys are right, this new system is perfect the way it is, the old system where the chances of getting a base weapon with enough tries was more reasonable was terrible.

You win, lets encourage arenet to keep the changes, I’ll keep making hundreds of gold off this new system.

Good for you but are you sure you readed first post of this topic ? And if you are angry for it going to cut your earnings sorry bud but we are talking here for greater good not for personal story and gains.

My suggestions are for the betterment of the whole game, it would cost me hundreds of gold if my suggestions are used because it would kill my market and stop me from making easy money off base weapons. I just want the game to be better.

But if you want the base weapon process to stay dumb the way it is then great, I get to make more money this way.

The funny thing it was actually fine before the “bug fix”, it was nearly impossible to make money off it then without exploiting the bug.