Official Response: Drop Rate of Legendary Precursors
His second sentence reads: “I’ve had to buy mine off the TP with gems.” Assuming that “mine” refers to the precursor doesn’t that imply that he had already bought it?
Though the rest of his post seems off if that’s the case.
I’m not sure if this has been said or not, but the outrage for pre-cursors (soaring prices included) is unfortunately one of only things (I can think of) that’s helping keep the overall end-material economy going. Once removed, prices will fall much harder than they have already — the TP will consist of dirt-cheap materials, rares, and exotics. Right now, people buy anything cheap for a shot at a pre-cursor. For example, the guy that just bought tens of thousands of mats, or others that are buying every cheap rare/exotic that’s listed (weapons).
It’s a win/lose situation, and I doubt they can “fix” it without significant impacts.
Mystic Forge Attempts for Pre-Legendary
Lvl 80 Short Bow : Rare: 111 : Exotic: 6 – Precursor – 0
Maybe, but their item sink is far too focused for this. All the pressure is on the precursors and people’s ever failing attempts to obtain them. They need to increase the chances of precursors and create other sought for items in the forge.
They had the whole Mystic Forge Conduit a while back. More items like this would continue to make people to throw items into the forge without pulling their hair out.
Well, increasing its chances will only reduce its theoretical “value” — it’d be a smack in the face for those that did decide to fork-over the gold (excluding “cheaters”). If they instead give it a flat-rate price from a vendor (as per someones suggestion), it’d further cripple the economy and, well, be no different than WoW’s gold-sinks (chopper, vial, etc). There’s really not much for people to spend gold on besides this, either, unfortunately — aside from getting gems — so that’s another issue. :-)
ANet is facing a very complex problem in general, and the economist is probably going bald from pulling his hair out over it.
Well it’s an issue with all mmo’s due to it’s potentially infinite items. Honestly, anyone who had enough gold to buy the precursor since the godskull fix can obviously make gold really fast (unless they profited from a unique market situation which means they’ll be loosing their money the same way they obtained it) and yes the added bonus is that the godskull cheaters will suffer looses as well.
But you’re right, there’s not many things to spend gold on and that’s what needs to change instead of just having ONE overpriced item. Good thing we have those overpriced waypoints and armor repairs huh? :P
I can consider those that took advantage of the karma-items as “cheaters” — that’s an obvious right/wrong situation — but with how much is unknown about the MF, those that did profit with godskull items should be entitled to keep it. If I had been one that did, I wouldn’t think I was doing anything wrong. That’s like saying you’re not meant to get pre-cursor exotics by combining rares, and then labeling everyone that has profited from it as “cheaters”. ;P
Good thing we have those overpriced waypoints and armor repairs huh?
Hey, sometimes when I gambled my last silver and had all the exotics tied-up in the TP, I had to bum some silver off of my wife for a waypoint. ;P
The godskull method was pretty specific. Two pocket change godskull weapons and two others that gave you an incredibly high chance of winning the most expensive items in the game.
I really doubt that most people who did it weren’t even aware of it being an exploit. The person who reported it, knew that it was an exploit immediately. Anyway, even if Anet made precursors worth only 100 gold the godskull users still wouldn’t really be punished since their method of obtaining a precursor was still much much cheaper than that.
60 attempts now with lvl 80 rare staffs. 12 total exotics, 2 of which were named, and 0 precursors. So far I’ve been able to support all of it by selling the exotics I get, but it sounds like I should maybe be putting them in the forge, too.
And yes I DO have to be dramatic, because it IS dramatic. Players are leaving because of this
Honestly, people who leave everything in the game, all the exploration content and the PvE content and the PvP content, just because they see some items as hard to get, didn’t really enjoy the game that much in the first place.
GW2 has never been about the rewards, more about the experience. Which is why the majority of components for Legendaries are not things hard to get – in fact, they are things everyone could get after playing the game for some time:
1) Badges of Honor will come in time after playing WvW.
2) Experience to get skill points will come in time after doing anything in the game.
3) Map completition will be earned eventually by anyone who bothers to explore a little once in a while.
4) Gold and karma are awarded for everything in the game, eventually people will have enough for the Legendaries.
The only exception is the dungeon token part. Everything else can be acquired by playing the game normally for some time. It doesn’t require people to grind, only to continue playing the game.
The frustration in this topic, IMO, comes from the demand to get the Legendaries NOW. They are long term investments. In about one year, I’m sure most players who have been playing since release would easily be able to craft one without having to grind a single time, other than the dungeon tokens.
“I think that players are starting to mature past the point of wanting to be on that
treadmill, of being in that obvious pattern of every time I catch up you are going to
put another carrot in front of me” – Mike O’Brien right before Ascended weapons
treadmill, of being in that obvious pattern of every time I catch up you are going to
put another carrot in front of me” – Mike O’Brien right before Ascended weapons
Dungeon tokens are the least of your problems. Do 3 dungeon runs on 3 seperate days and you have enough. Precursors are the problem.
1st person worldwide to reach 35,000 achievement points.
please.
i don’t understand why everyone is complaining its been a month and a half into the game and if everyone were to obtain 1/4th of a legendary, than in half a year everyone would get one. Those who complain about the price going up, there is no way it’ll get exponentially higher as tests have already been run with the ‘4 rares’ system and found on average you get 1 every 500 forges, that is around the zone of 400g, which is what they are going for right now, get lucky or not the gs in particullar are the most pricey because everyone wants one, and no not everyone deserves one.
How about you all go gather ALL the other required mats and leave the precursor for last, i don’t understand why that is so hard. Prices AREN’T stable yet so stop complaining about how they grow, once there is more established tests and knowledge on how to obtain one then just sit tight and go for all the rest of the mats required.
And about the RNG system, there is RNG everywhere, real life and games, do people who thow a few bucks into lotto and win deserve that money? maybe not but it’s still theirs regardless, think about all the money people gamble at casinos and how much they make or lose. Why do people gamble? Because it’s fun.
I’m 100% sure if any of you were to get a precursor from a random chest or forging a couple of rares would instantly shutup.
it is a game, that really closely emulates how things work in life. NOT EVERYONE CAN HAVE EVERYTHING, the rich get richer, thats a known fact from living in this world. How do most of them get rich? They take a gamble and it pays off. Look at Steve Jobs for christ sake.
Maybe stop complaining and go do something about it, it’s not like you’re gonna ask God to make money easier to come by, so why do you need to make gw2 ‘life’ much easier? Leave the system as it is, it is honestly the most realistic emulation of the current economy, people manipulate prices all the time just deal with it. once you make it up there im sure all you’d want to be thinking is how to make more. Greed. yes that’s what drives people at the top to keep going and it’s no different in game.
And the people who bot will eventually get caught, takes time, not like when a drug dealer starts selling dope they’d instantly run into the wall. They will make a small fortune there is no doubt about that but eventually it’ll all be taken away from them so just keep trying if you want the legendary, farm everything else first, maybe wait a few months and check the prices then, guarenteed it’ll not rise as fast as now and will eventually stabilise.
Legendaries aren’t meant to take months, they’re meant to take years for normal people, sure hardcore grinders and ‘nerds’ get them within a few months, because they spend probably 5x as much time on it, not complaining and actually making progress on it, and eventually they get somewhere.
Realise this, everytime you make a gold, you are closer to the precurseor, whether it be 0.01% closer or 0.001% closer, its still PROGRESS.
In my opinion it should be even HARDER to get a legendary weapon… i mean cmon it should be LEGENDARY… there should be still NO ONE who got it (how many got one now? like 20-30?) nothing legendary there tbh.
You can farm easily one within 3 weeks without haste… i don’t know why so many people are complaining. If you choose the way to gamble it’s your own fault. YTou can’t enter a casino either and complain when you don’t make a profit…
Reaper – Anguîsh
Will people please stop defending the RNG on the basis that RNG exists in real life? What the hell does GW2 have to do with real life? Just because there are Casinos in real life it doesn’t mean it’s a good idea to put them into an mmo. At least not as the only means to obtain an item that is necessary for a large part of endgame content.
The same goes for defending the idea that you can’t have stuff unless you’re super rich and can make money really fast in the game and everything is okay with that. How does that actually help the GAME???
For those of you who somehow missed the OBVIOUS, we’re here to discuss how to make the GAME better and more enjoyable in terms of obtaining the legendary. The way I see it, Arena Net can cater to the hardcore 1% who already got their legendary or are well on their way (already have the precursor) and leave the rest of us in the ditch (a much deeper ditch than what it was before the godskull fix). I’m sure it’ll make those guys feel really great about themselves but it will only alienate the rest of the playerbase to the point where many of them will start abandoning this game.
OR they can start implementing ways for the rest of the community to gain precursors in a more reasonable way. Not necessarily easier, just less friggin’ random! Who cares if more and more people start getting it eventually. Within 1 or 2 years we’ll get an expansions with new shinies and legendaries and it won’t matter anymore.
You wanna talk real life? Real life is that Anet will want to make this game enjoyable for as many people as they possibly can, because it’s in their best interest to have as big of a community as they can get. If that means upsetting a few no lifers who are so desperate for attention they feel the need to be the only ones with a certain ingame item then so be it.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/11gjkq/dusk_drop_in_cursed_shore/
This post shows proof of precursors dropping in the open world from random mobs. is this intended or just another bug? later in the post he states that he got it after 300 hours played, does time also factor in for the game to give you one?
Will people please stop defending the RNG on the basis that RNG exists in real life? What the hell does GW2 have to do with real life? Just because there are Casinos in real life it doesn’t mean it’s a good idea to put them into an mmo. At least not as the only means to obtain an item that is necessary for a large part of endgame content.
So it would be better if everyone would get such a legendary weapon within days or weeks of ‘normal playing’? I doubt it and it wouldnt be worth to be called ’legendary;.
its simple, gambling is not obligatory. You can do it to safe money IF YOU’RE LUCKY. So if you push your luck its your own fault. Else just sell everything you get and you can easy make 10g a day.
If ppl havent found out yet, they don’t know how they have to play.
Reaper – Anguîsh
Archer.6485:His second sentence reads: “I’ve had to buy mine off the TP with gems.” Assuming that “mine” refers to the precursor doesn’t that imply that he had already bought it?
Reread the sentences around it, hes talking about buying gold:
I have no idea how people are making tons of gold. I’ve had to buy mine off the TP with gems. To date I’ve spent over $250.00 on gems converted to gold.
If I spent $250 on a computer game and didn’t get the weapon skin I wanted I would probably rage too. I bet Anet loves this guy though.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/11gjkq/dusk_drop_in_cursed_shore/
This post shows proof of precursors dropping in the open world from random mobs. is this intended or just another bug? later in the post he states that he got it after 300 hours played, does time also factor in for the game to give you one?
543h played on my main, never had an exotic drop from from mobs or chests or players in wvw. Chance is even more horrible than gambling in MF.
1st person worldwide to reach 35,000 achievement points.
Icarium.586360 attempts now with lvl 80 rare staffs. 12 total exotics, 2 of which were named, and 0 precursors. So far I’ve been able to support all of it by selling the exotics I get, but it sounds like I should maybe be putting them in the forge, too.
Think of it this way:
If you sell instead of putting them in the forge, you only have a net loss of your time, with some very small chance of getting a precursor.
If you put them in the forge, you have a slightly higher chance of getting a precursor, but you also have a much higher chance of losing all the money you invested instead of just the time.
@Shakki
Yes technically I would still preffer that everyone got the weapons over the current system, It’s freakin’ PvE content. Who cares about exclusivity. It doesn’t actually make you special in ANY way. The legendaries don’t actually make you a legend you know? They’re just items you can work towards for personal achievement.
That’s not what we’re arguing however. No one said they wanted a legendary within days or weeks. What we’re actually arguing (as I explain it for the millionth time) is that the method of obtaining a precursor is not really fair and it’s not in any way fun. It’s not legendary either since that’s your big concern.
Anet can make obtaining the legendary as hard and time consuming to obtain as they want. If that means 2 years then it means 2 years. But what I don’t want to see is that my obtaining a legendary is completely up to chance or up for grabs in an extremely small and competitive market on the TP.
Anyone notice how the price skyrocketed for dusk and now there’s suddenly 11 on the trading post, where for most of the other legendaries there are very few or none for sale. Hrm, I wonder who’s deciding to unload all their dusks now that it seems the price as peaked *coughexploiterscough*
Maybe people are anticipating that Anet will change precursors’ drop rate or method of obtaining them so they’re selling them up while they can still overprice them.
Maybe people are anticipating that Anet will change precursors’ drop rate or method of obtaining them so they’re selling them up while they can still overprice them.
And thats just fun. They will have all that exotics stuck.
There’s already people undercutting the market with these precursors, I’ve seen 10 Dusks go up on TP, each of them undercutting the other by at least 20g. I believe as time goes by, these precursors will be getting cheaper and cheaper as more come by, as most people don’t desire the effort of farming for karma or the gold required to create the other components.
I’d just have a little patience to wait for the official response like others have said in these posts. Linsey did state that they were monitoring the situation as time goes by. Also lets not forget all of the other things they took a while to fix, such as the daily dungeon tokens and drop rate, they sure took a long time to fix, but they eventually got there.
I can agree 100% on the fact that basing the legendary precursors on RNG is just a flawed mechanic, and others (like me) prefer to have a talent/skill based way of obtaining it. RNG is mainly the reason I’ve been driven away from games in the past, it’s not a fun mechanic, when you have no feeling of success(even if you didn’t get what you wanted).
Well when I last posted, I was 12/60 (exotics/combines), with no precursor. Felt I should update again, though, as I just did 8 more combines, where 6 of them were exotics. One more named: Delusion. I did combine 4 of these exotics, but just got another non-named one.
Current stats: 18 exotics out of 68 rare combines (272 lvl 80 rares), 0 precursors.
(edited by Icarium.5863)
Wouldn’t that have cost you 222 level 80 rares, not 272? After all, you get a rare back every time it doesn’t give you an exotic, so 4 rares per combine is inaccurate.
I crafted 28 rare daggers. Got 2 named and 1 regular exotic. The first named exotic I salvaged for the bloodlust sigil, the dagger itself was only going for 1.5g on the tc but the sigil was almost triple, the second net me 6g, the third non-named got me another 2. I spent 4g to craft all of those and made over 10. Had I not had to go to work I would have been doing it still. Sure I’m not getting Spark, but I’ve made some decent coin off of the named exotics so I really couldn’t care less.
I agree that this is becoming a bit much.
Me and a friend have made it our goal to get a legendary no matter what. We’re getting older now and GW2 is going to be our last game before we head out into the world and put gaming behind us to a degree. We started with Phantasy Star Online, went to WoW for 5 years, and then tried every big MMO between WoW and GW2, and after a long period of downtime have decided to take GW2 to the extreme.
I already have bank slots reserved for every piece of Orichalcum and other high level mats, as well as all the other things I need to be saving and have made it a week-by-week basis to check up on the scene. If it takes months, it takes months, but with the way the Dawn/Dusk prices are gaining momentum by the week, it is honestly just driving a stake through my motivation. Do something about these precursors, please.
Just knowing that it might come to the point where I have to invest several more hours just to acquire the astronomically high amount of gold required for the precursor or have to gamble just as much money sort of kills the high.
Lackofcheese, getting a rare back and putting it into the forge is still putting a rare into the forge. 272 is the total number of rares I put in the forge, not the number of rares I crafted to begin the process (you’re correct, THAT number would be closer to 222).
For estimating probabilities, we should be using the actual number put into the forge. If, instead, the goal is to decide whether or not you can make a profit, the starting number of rares is probably more relevant.
It’s easy enough to convert between one and the other, so the most important thing is to provide sufficient data and be clear as to what is meant.
Yes, the number of combines is more useful for probabilities, and the number of rares bought/crafted is useful for profitability analysis, but the number of rares put into the forge isn’t directly useful for either of those purposes.
As such, I don’t think it’s worth noting how many rares were put into the forge, as it is easily confused with the number of rares bought/crafted.
I have personally thrown in 736 rare greatswords now, about 50 rare shortbows and about 40 rare swords, every single exotic which i got from it was then thrown back into the forge……. these numbers are only what i bought off the tp so they dont include the rares i got from each attempt…. s@#t sucks… lol
and another 250 rare greatswords, about 15 exotics back out and put those back in and nothing……
It’s easy enough to convert between one and the other, so the most important thing is to provide sufficient data and be clear as to what is meant.
Yes, the number of combines is more useful for probabilities, and the number of rares bought/crafted is useful for profitability analysis, but the number of rares put into the forge isn’t directly useful for either of those purposes.
As such, I don’t think it’s worth noting how many rares were put into the forge, as it is easily confused with the number of rares bought/crafted.
But frankly, what you think is irrelevant. The point of the thread is to find out how many weapons are being put into the forge before a pre-cursor comes out – I know that is the point of the thread because I started the thread and that is what my intention was. I don’t give a kitten about profitability or how many weapons people craft/buy, I only care about how many weapons are being put in the forge for a pre-cursor to pop.
Mystic Forge Attempts for Pre-Legendary
Lvl 80 Axes : Rare: 483; Exotic: 4 – Frostfang: 0
Lvl 80 Swords : Rare: 20; Exotic: 0 – Zap: 0
Lvl 80 Axes : Rare: 483; Exotic: 4 – Frostfang: 0
Lvl 80 Swords : Rare: 20; Exotic: 0 – Zap: 0
I know a lot of people are suggesting specific recipes for precursors, but I think making it as simple as that would just make players farm more to get it. If recipes are added for the precursors they should require something new, that isn’t already a part of the legendary creation process. Arenanet claims that legendary weapons should show mastery of all aspects of the game, but so far none of these are a part of the legendary creation process:
- sPvP
- Personal Story completion
- Achievements
- Jump puzzles
- Activities (currently only includes Keg Brawl)
It would be nice to see legendary requirements (aside from world completion) that require players to actually play rather than farm. (And the 500 Badges of honor don’t count because most people who already got them farmed the WvW jump puzzles for them.)
Light of Honor [Lite] – Founder / Warmaster
Sorrow’s Furnace Commander
“You’re the mount, karka’s ride you instead, and thus they die happy!”-Colin Johanson
Sorrow’s Furnace Commander
“You’re the mount, karka’s ride you instead, and thus they die happy!”-Colin Johanson
Whatever form you want to quote your own statistics in, you should be clear about what that form is; i.e. not this:
Yeah I am only counting the rares I craft.
Other people are going to post their own stats in whatever form they want to.
(edited by lackofcheese.5617)
No, it wasn’t clear, at least not to me. If that makes me a troll, that’s the weirdest definition of “troll” I’ve heard. Good day, though.
Frankly, I’m still not sure exactly what statistics you’re using in your own signature. Your number for rare axes is 483, but how can you have thrown 483 axes into the forge? Considering that the forge takes items 4 at a time, you’re not being entirely clear.
Here’s fuller quotes of your posts:
Post here how many attempts it takes you to get your pre-legendary from mystic forge.
The number of attempts is not the number of items thrown into the forge; it’s 1/4 of that number.
Yeah I am only counting the rares I craft, obviously any rares I get back I throw in as well.
Saying that you throw the rares back in in no way implies that you’re including those rares you get back in your overall count.
I have personally thrown in 736 rare greatswords now, about 50 rare shortbows and about 40 rare swords, every single exotic which i got from it was then thrown back into the forge……. these numbers are only what i bought off the tp so they dont include the rares i got from each attempt…. s@#t sucks… lol
I’m just curious. Did you check to see how much those exotics went for on the TC? A lot of the ones I have found go for 5-10 gold, sometimes more. Let’s say 10% of those crafts came out as exotics. Some may be worth a couple gold, some may be worth a bit more by salvaging for the sigil, some may be worth a LOT of gold. Let’s say you got 80. Had you sold all 80 exotics I bet you could have afforded at least 1 precursor off the TC, if not more than that.
No, it wasn’t clear, at least not to me.
I’m still not at all sure what he’s getting at, either.
I guess we’re both trolls?
If you’re counting attempts, make it clear that you’re counting attempts (where each attempt is 4 items into the MF). If you’re counting items, then make that clear, and make sure the number you state is divisible by 4, because otherwise we know you’re counting or reporting something wrong.
Well , why don’t you just report them .
SFR – [Opt] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqRdpJAUXqQ
Chuck Noriis – Warrior
Chuck Noriis – Warrior
So it would be better if everyone would get such a legendary weapon within days or weeks of ‘normal playing’? I doubt it and it wouldnt be worth to be called ’legendary;.
Personally, I think it would. People like me, who only care about character aesthetics and care nothing for displaying “achievements”, just want pretty skins. To be honest, I look down on people who care too much about showing off, standing out in a crowd, and being “special”. What’s wrong if everyone has the pretty skins they want? Can you not value the item on its aesthetics alone? Why does it matter if other people also have that item?
Really looking forward to seeing A-NET’s response on this. I am hoping this is changed to a recipe that requires players to actually complete something & not just another money sink. Something such as:
500 tokens from all dungeons or something to that extent. If A-NET wanted a bigger money sink it should have been included in the gift of fortune.
Also hoping all precursors are made account bound. That would eliminate all the players sitting on 20+ precursors in the bank, controlling the economy.
Speaking of which, what is being done about said players that used godskull exploits? They are “the” reason the economy is in its current state.
Hey ANET, can we please get “normal” exotic versions of the precursor skins? For people who want the precursor skin but NOT the legendary?
At most a very cool exotic skin should cost 33g. See: Charrzooka.
Currently you have some nice weapon drops resembling the precursor, such as Naegling resembling Dawn. How about completing the set and doing the other skins?
Can we get the same for The Hunter as a legit Plated Sniper Rifle in PvE, please?
The Hunter is NOT the legendary! Just an exotic rifle! So can the same skin please be easier to obtain in PvE, please?
Also this thread was just stickied? Anyone know what this might mean?
(edited by Kain Francois.4328)
So it would be better if everyone would get such a legendary weapon within days or weeks of ‘normal playing’? I doubt it and it wouldnt be worth to be called ’legendary;.
Personally, I think it would. People like me, who only care about character aesthetics and care nothing for displaying “achievements”, just want pretty skins. To be honest, I look down on people who care too much about showing off, standing out in a crowd, and being “special”. What’s wrong if everyone has the pretty skins they want? Can you not value the item on its aesthetics alone? Why does it matter if other people also have that item?
Because most people can’t do something like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxVmWaprNDY
Or (GW2-related example):
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLdRu-1piROblxmQL9HcyqJKzgITtf9TTg
And have to compensate, otherwise they’ll fail at lying to themselves and realize they’re pathetic/bad. Not joking; human psychology 101. And that’s why we get things like legendaries which take ridiculous amounts of time/luck to get, instead of being available to anyone who is actually a good/exceptional gamer.
I’d rather legendaries not be gated by luck, in-game wealth and generally boring/unskilled/overly-time-consuming things. But, that’s likely a business decision on anet’s part, since ovewhelming majority of MMO-ers are on the bad/pathetic side and value those things over skill, timing, talent and hand-eye coordination.
Anyone know when this thread was stickied? It seems like it caught ANET’s eye.
It’s been sticked for like forever. lol^
Ya know, if u people are spending 100G+ trying the forge…maybe you should have just saved it and bought it. Or make the weapons people use in the forge and sell those. There are a ton of ways to make money, u just gotta find them.
On a side note…if u can’t 1v2+ as a thief you…nah nm u guys get the picture
Maybe people dont want to farm up days and days of gold just to give someone who exploited the MF in the beginning of the game. Maybe they want to feel more accomplished?
Stickied so we know ANET is paying attention, but no recent statements on the matter either…
We should just chuck this entire post into the mystic forge and see if a precursor will pop out of it…
In all seriousness, we want precursors. 2 ways to get it (3 if you count that reddit post about it dropping in cursed shore. Hello photoshop lol.)
1: offering up 4 rares/exotic lv 80 weapons (great swords is you are wanting dusk/dawn) into the mystic forge has a chance to yield the precursor.
2: Buy it off the trading post.
Make it easier? Why? You have 2 options! Pick one! Or both! Or none… And move on. All this rage about not getting a precursor, when the options are clear, is probably connected to the fact that people are feeling cheated in that they have “invested” all their gold into something that is RNG centered. You know what you were getting yourself into. A wise man counts the cost first!
If you are angry at the exploiters… Don’t be. They will always get what’s coming to them. But the truth is… They have what you want. And you really cannot say that the precursors up on the market right now are purely from exploiters. That is a terrible accusation. You need more proof.
Don’t flame me please. I only call a spade a spade. Lots and LOTS of crybabies here. Me, I’ll roll with the punches. IT’S A GAME PEOPLE! uninstall if it too much for you to handle lol.
I have 110g. I will keep grinding till I get the gold for the cheapest dawn on the market. Then buy it and wear it proudly because I, in my own mind, worked diligently for it. That’s all that really matters to me. say what you want, it makes no difference.
Off topic: where has Lindsey been the past few days. Dead silence form her :-)