Official Response: Drop Rate of Legendary Precursors
Brennen.8051:A wise man counts the cost first!
How can you count the cost for option 1, since like you said it’s completely RNG based, it could cost you 4 rares or 4000. That’s why people are complaining, if you decide to try to craft it yourself you could literally play this game nonstop for 5 years grinding for the mats to create weapons to throw into the mystic forge and still not get it if your luck is bad enough. And your friend get’s it on his 5th try. Is he more deserving of a legendary than you?
I don’t know how they should change it, but I like the idea someone suggested about receiving tokens for every craft you do at the MF. You can still get the precursor from the actual forge results but if you don’t for a specific number of tokens you can buy it. That way you’re actually progressing toward it even if you’re unlucky. Maybe the precursor you get from the craft is unbound but the token one is bound?
Deserving is probably the wrong word to use here. No one deserves anything when luck is a factor. And yes, knowing full well that the mystic forge is RNG based should alert you that there will be a cost involved. You knew throwing in 4 weapons could potentially give you what you are looking for… Or not. That’s the cost. Whether you believe it or not, this is the truth.
That proposal for the Mysitc Forge token thingy doesn’t sound too bad. Someone did suggest it in a post somewhere, probably drowned by the flames and tears of those not getting precursors.
Like I said, I for one have stopped throwing rares into the forge and will just grind until I get the gold for it. It keeps me… Wait what? Playing the game? MINDEXPLOSION!
(edited by Brennen.8051)
For anyone interested about my results thus far:
I just had The Energizer drop for me in the Cursed shore, from a Risen, so I can confirm that world mobs will indeed drop precursors. Probably a pretty poor rate. My total logged into in GW2 is ~190h to date.
I also crafted a Spark from 1 Mystic Forge Stone, 1 Level 71 Exotic Torch, 1 Level 78 Exotic Trident, and 1 Level 75 Exotic Axe. I probably should’ve held onto it, as the value has increased 50g from when I sold it. Mismanagement on my part.
The interesting thing is I am not in any rush, or possess any desire to plow head-first into a legendary. Most of these are just from running events with friends, or gambling for fun. I freely admit that these are moments of extreme luck, but that’s what makes obtaining them feel great.
I did read some of the comments in this thread, and i’m pretty amused. The only reason people seem upset with this game is that they aren’t playing it. Just play the game. To my knowledge, legendaries confer no advantage whatsoever. If the problem is that you aren’t enjoying the actual game, and would rather just insert coins into a slot machine, it’s probably best you’re doing it in Guild Wars and not Vegas. All the same, maybe this isn’t the game for you.
The sense of entitlement amongst gamers is a little bit disheartening. The tone seems to be primarily that somehow Arenanet ‘forced’ you to gamble away all your money. In reality, a player makes the choice to, and now are blaming the establishment because the result is different from what you want. I hope i’m not the only one who thinks this sounds ridiculous.
It’s really akin to hanging a grand at the roulette table, losing it, then complaining to the casino management about their game odds. I hope ANet does what any business would do, and does not just cater to the whims of those who try to make the most noise. I’d like to say i’m in the relatively silent majority of those who just enjoy playing the game. My loudest complaints would be those issues that concern gameplay, which in the past have been to the tune of bugged skill points and improper skill interactions, as well as inconsistent and buggy Dungeon DR code. Much of this has gotten fixed. Some new problems have appeared. (I can’t open the Mistwrought Vault!) I have plenty of gripes, and get frustrated with the faceless game management at times when these affect my ability to progress, but the legendary situation is definitely NOT one of those gripes.
TL;DR: Don’t change. Keep legendaries legendary.
I agree legendaries should be kept legendary, but should we really keep the precursor SKINS so expensive? If Dawn has Naegling, is there any reason we shouldn’t get a Plated Sniper Rifle skin besides The Hunter?
Don’t You think that obtaining the same item should require the same effort from everyone? 600 hours played, hundreds of items put into forge and no precursor.
Is that fair in Your opinion?
[TEAR]
Gandara
Gandara
So, is it possible to truly get a precursor using lv 70 exotics? I managed to get Eir’s longbow with them… Must be a hint or something like that I suppose :S
Okay so whats the best way to get that precursor?
Can you get them off 75 – 80 exotics?
Will 4 lvl 80 exotics have better chances than 4 lvl 75 exotics?
and when Anet said there is a higher chance with exotics just how much better??
Is it better to triple your investment into exotics? or
Just roll with lvl 80 rares?
Really? Lottery? Didn’t realize the only way to get the precursor was to play the one armed bandit (and no trading post doesn’t count for a reliable/realistic way to obtain it till the economy of the game balances out). So in a game where i get excited about a rare drop (and the only exotic’s I’ve seen have been from map completion), the TP prices for majority of items is below vendor price (after the TP’s 20% cut), and the only reliable way to get leather and cloth is from deconstructing armor (also necessary for gathering the exto i believe); i’m supposed to take stacks of gear and hope to get a legendary? The player gets no say as to which they want? What’s the point of farming a dungeon and everything else… then the lottery doesn’t give you the weapon you’ve been working towards. The developers can’t have it both ways. If they want players to feel…blessed(?)… for getting an exotic or rare drop, then shouldn’t be surprised when they squeal about having to throw it away and get nothing in return. If the choices are a 1/4 part of a crappy chance to get something i want, or to deconstruct for common materials {NEVER RECEIVED ANY FINE MATERIALS FROM USING A DECONSTRUCTION KIT} it sounds like getting nothing for an epic drop.
I think this is one of the best points i could make for the argument of a serious upgrade to the loot system.
From what I’ve seen: either change the text on the deconstruction kits, or start making them put out. I mentioned it above, the only materials i get from deconstruction is common crafting materials and a decent chance on the upgrade component. The only thing holding back my efforts with crafting is the availibilty of the Fine materials.
Constructive Ideas
-Any non agressive creature should drop base crafting material alot more.
-Junk items should be able to be combined into fine crafting items.
-Butter should be a kharma item for cooks, and get them out of the bags.
-Blue-Green-Yellow Decon-Kits should return fine crafting materials every time.
-Have some kind of acnolegement or reward system for players that properly report abusive behavior.
-Crafted legendarys should be creatable by player characters. If other legendary’s were drops (or the mystic forge same random principle) then people wouldn’t complain (as much).
Overall the only 2 complaints i have with the game to date is the rediculousness of the dungeons’ explore modes and the dismal drop rate.
“I just had The Energizer drop for me in the Cursed shore, from a Risen, so I can confirm that world mobs will indeed drop precursors. Probably a pretty poor rate. My total logged into in GW2 is ~190h to date.
I also crafted a Spark from 1 Mystic Forge Stone, 1 Level 71 Exotic Torch, 1 Level 78 Exotic Trident, and 1 Level 75 Exotic Axe. I probably should’ve held onto it, as the value has increased 50g from when I sold it. Mismanagement on my part.”
That’s some amazing luck you have there playing the lotto, I’ve gambled away dozens of exotics and rares in the forge trying to obtain one of the precursors, no luck so far.
Secondly, I like many others hasn’t had a single exotic drop for nearly over 600~ hours thats 3 chances to your 1.
Seeing as you got 2 precursors, I don’t think you deserve to be posting in this thread, along with all the others finding the precursors
“TL;DR: Don’t change. Keep legendaries legendary.”
For all of you saying this, this is just absurd, NOTHING has to be extremely rare to be legendary, neither does it have to be extremely unobtainable.
TL;DR if you already found the precursor through these methods, I wouldn’t bother posting about keeping the same method.
So basically the top thread of every forum on the internet related to GW2 is related to precursors & peoples dissatisfaction with the current design philosophy of obtaining them.
Is that enough to warrant action Lindsey? This is something that needs to be addressed. A recipe/vendor needs to be added. One that does NOT require gold. (See Gift of Fortune) It should require tokens from every dungeon or some other feat. Not just another money sink.
Considering legendary creation “IS” currently the only end game in GW2 the outcome will determine whether or not a large % of people continue to play. Right now hundreds of thousands of players are collecting mats for their legendaries waiting in hope that this is resolved. Please address this.
No, it has to be even harder as it is now…. It’s still pathetic to get one seriously.
Only because you don’t get something you want directly all start crying like a 5y old child which wants his toy….Work for it, in life you get nothing for free.
But I’d wish that at least the stats would be a huge difference compared to Exotics.
Like 30% more Dmg and stats.
Another person bringing RL rules/mechanics into a GAME. Games are supposed to be dream-worlds, ideals where the rules differ, where anything goes. Some of us have dealt enough with RL to know that it should NEVER be brought into certain games/art.
And spending 500g+ on a precursor over the course of 2+ months and getting nothing, while the guy next to you gets it in 5mins on the 1st 4-weapon combine is absurd. There’s no sound reason why that should ever be the case.
The quest for a legendary weapon or armor should be legendary, a story, and adventure for 1 or 100 as i have stated before. RNG has no place in a game other than to make the gamemaker money via some microtransaction store or gemstore like is currently being used because people become rabid and turn cash into gold to attain the item, something Anet planned well ahead to happen.
The smart thing would have been to make the precursor the reward ending your storyline, with a choice going to the player of what type, then grind the rest of the components out, bind on pickup components, that way people are not monopolizing because of poorly thought out game mechanics or exploits and gold need not have any place in the making of a legendary anything.
There is no worse feeling than that during an argument, you realize you are wrong.
I’m confident that Anet will change it. If anyone remembers the early days of GW1 and what you had to go through to just change your secondary class. Well, today it’s about 100x easier. And then they vastly improved the class system with the ability to save builds.
So yes, they are willing to change systems they put into place to make the game more fun for everyone. It’s just a matter of when and not if, I feel. And the class change system in the early days of GW1 got just as much talk in comparison as the precursor discussions are now, too.
But I also think the change, whatever it is, can’t come soon enough.
(edited by fellyn.5083)
fellyn.5083I’m confident that Anet will change it.
countless replies without gm comment says otherwise.
Devs don’t post every few comments just to make their intentions clear. The fact that they aren’t responding all the time doesn’t mean they’re just ignoring the issue.
There’s a lot of reasons why devs don’t just post all the time. Sometimes a conversation can go a more natural course without the powers that be constantly interrupting. What Anet decides to do or not to do can’t be measured by the number of their posts.
No, it has to be even harder as it is now…. It’s still pathetic to get one seriously.
Only because you don’t get something you want directly all start crying like a 5y old child which wants his toy….
Work for it, in life you get nothing for free.
The legendaries are poor value; the cost is far too high for the benefit they provide. In real life, I also reject bad deals, instead of being submissive and accepting unreasonable conditions. I think a sensible person would try to have the precursor acquisition requirements changed by speaking out on the forums, instead of throwing themselves at the mercy of RNG.
I do plenty of work in real life, games are for fun.
I suppose some players are like those who enjoy showing off luxury goods in public though…
(edited by voidwater.2064)
I do believe there is a reason this was stickied. ANET is using this as their official feedback thread.
They probably have 1hour sessions or something, sitting at a round table, debating what to do. (Or maybe their secret staff member forum?)
Obviously they’re monitoring the situation.
Legendaries should be hardcore, and I’m really happy with the way they are. Good job!
I would really hate to see everyone running around with them after a few monts, even years.
Please, don’t change this to something easy, like you guys have a tendency to do.
Let there be a part of the game for the hardcore ones, as everything else is too easy.
http://nox.no – Norse Oil eXpedition
Fnix.5608Legendaries should be hardcore, and I’m really happy with the way they are. Good job!
I would really hate to see everyone running around with them after a few monts, even years.
Please, don’t change this to something easy, like you guys have a tendency to do.
Let there be a part of the game for the hardcore ones, as everything else is too easy.
please explain how throwing hundreds of gold into a forge aka gambling is hardcore?
Legendaries should be hardcore, and I’m really happy with the way they are. Good job!
I would really hate to see everyone running around with them after a few monts, even years.
Please, don’t change this to something easy, like you guys have a tendency to do.
Let there be a part of the game for the hardcore ones, as everything else is too easy.
I agree with this, except in it’s current state, it is not “Difficult” They are just time consuming. The problem is with the randomness of the Mystic Clovers and the Pre-Cursors. Even Mystic Clovers are not that bad, I could live with that. Basically they can leave everything else the same, and just change how people acquire the Pre-Cursors and the so called Legendary’s will still be extremely rare and only those that have dedicated a huge chunk of time and effort will have them.
I mean seriously… Have you taken a look at everything you have to gather/complete/buy/craft to get the other 3 items needed to combine with the precursor.
Personally, I think that part of the problem is that people want them NOW. And they were not designed to be acquired so quickly. I don’t expect to have one until the first expansion comes out, but because of the randomness of that kitten precursor, I really just don’t even want to bother at all. It’s frustrating.
Diabel Zwierze/Ranger
80’s – Necro/War/Ele/Guard
80’s – Necro/War/Ele/Guard
I spend almost 717 Hours playing this game and has 4 level 80 characters, tried my luck with mystic forge to get Dusk or Dawn. First am very sad that most people who had achieved making thr legendary weapons was blessed by mystic forge bug or glitch. After that prices for precussor’s are going higher everyday.
1. Now this is clear no matter how many hours you spend in this game you will get nothing if you are not lucky or zommoros is bugged.
2. People using bugs, botting and other ways to get to higher tragets in this game is not been addressed correctly.
I achieved world completion in 12 days with my warrior thinking i will make a legendary or get something good. What i get 2 gifts which is still thr after 717 hours waiting to get Precussor.
I spend almost 717 Hours playing this game and has 4 level 80 characters, tried my luck with mystic forge to get Dusk or Dawn. First am very sad that most people who had achieved making thr legendary weapons was blessed by mystic forge bug or glitch. After that prices for precussor’s are going higher everyday.
1. Now this is clear no matter how many hours you spend in this game you will get nothing if you are not lucky or zommoros is bugged.
2. People using bugs, botting and other ways to get to higher tragets in this game is not been addressed correctly.
I achieved world completion in 12 days with my warrior thinking i will make a legendary or get something good. What i get 2 gifts which is still thr after 717 hours waiting to get Precussor.
There are many many people buying precursors from the TP with the money that they earned legitimately. Looks like you’re not one of them. I wonder if 2 months from now people will still be saying “I don’t have my precursor because of the godskull exploit! It’s all their fault! Anet make it easier to get pls.”
For every post where someone says that the system is fine as is there are 10 where people say it needs to change. I wonder which part of the player base Anet will choose to listen to.
For me? RNG isn’t fun. I’m okay with having to work for something but the moment I have to deal with RNG I’ll start to rethink things. I dealt with rng enough in Aion to last me a life time.
(edited by fellyn.5083)
For every post where someone says that the system is fine as is there are 10 where people say it needs to change. I wonder which part of the player base Anet will choose to listen to.
For me? RNG isn’t fun. I’m okay with having to work for something but the moment I have to deal with RNG I’ll start to rethink things. I dealt with rng enough in Aion to last me a life time.
You can buy the precursor with no RNG. Do you have any other concerns?
@Wahaha
Prices constantly going up due to godskull exploiters controlling their prices?
For every post where someone says that the system is fine as is there are 10 where people say it needs to change. I wonder which part of the player base Anet will choose to listen to.
For me? RNG isn’t fun. I’m okay with having to work for something but the moment I have to deal with RNG I’ll start to rethink things. I dealt with rng enough in Aion to last me a life time.
You can buy the precursor with no RNG. Do you have any other concerns?
True. But is that supposed to be fun? I’m of the opinion that it’s not.
Why is it so hard to understand? We want a FUN alternative to getting precursors that is challenging and doesn’t involve RNG.
You act like it’s personal attack on you when people say they don’t like how things currently are. Why are you so opposed to making the game better?
@Wahaha
Prices constantly going up due to godskull exploiters controlling their prices?
The prices stopped going up a while ago. There are 5 Dusks under 400 gold.
the whole concept behind acquisition seems really backwards to me.
i thought to be legendary you have to have achieved some pretty spectacular things and be the best you can be, not just lucky or rich.
heres how i would have done it:
component 1 = story completion
component 2 = X pvp tokens
component 3 = 100% world completion
component 4 = crafted uber
effort = reward = satisfaction = legendary
NOT
p2w = bored in days = dormant account full of shiny pixels
or
10000g worth of endless grind and hustle for a totally random shot at nothing, like hitting a fly with a bb gun from the moon
Still funny to read all this… All you do is complain if you would invest the time you complain into actually playing you wouldn’t have to worry
Reaper – Anguîsh
@ Wahaha
5 Dusks for under 400g. What a bargain. No thanks, I think I will wait for A-NET to make a official response. I hope they make all precursors account bound overnight & add a recipe, leaving all the players involved in this scandal SOL.
so i crafted 250 rare carrion short bows today of which i put in the forge.
It cost me 46g 16s 35c
I got back 19 exotics which i sold back on the TP for 45g 75s 51c before fees are taken off.
I did however get lucky and got a couple of short bows worth 5-6g back so it wasnt so bad. still no precursor though.
Brings my total of different weapons to over 1000 rares easy
and another 250 crafted rares of which i recieved 12 exotics back, still no precursor
It’s over 9000!!!
back to all seriousness, I’m pretty sure you’re better off using exotics to start with, rares can result in rares, exotic weapons will always be exotics when you forge them. Or am I the only one thinking this and is there some math behind using rares over exotics?
Location, location, location.
It’s over 9000!!!
back to all seriousness, I’m pretty sure you’re better off using exotics to start with, rares can result in rares, exotic weapons will always be exotics when you forge them. Or am I the only one thinking this and is there some math behind using rares over exotics?
The reason people use rares is because 4x rares are generally cheaper than 4x exotics. Rares have a roughly .5% chance though whereas exotics are 3.3% per forge. I guess using rares still have a better chance:cost ratio.
I did another 40 batches of 50 weapons and no base weapon
From the exotics I got I put the 10 or so that had a price over 1.5G on the trading post and recycled the rest for more bad exotics because there’s no point in putting up 20 of the same exotic and get undercut instantly and never sell all of them.
Still funny to read all this… All you do is complain if you would invest the time you complain into actually playing you wouldn’t have to worry
It’s also funny when someone thinks they know how much time me or anyone else is spending in the game. Unless you actually make your point with some facts you can stop posting.
I did another 40 batches of 50 weapons and no base weapon
From the exotics I got I put the 10 or so that had a price over 1.5G on the trading post and recycled the rest for more bad exotics because there’s no point in putting up 20 of the same exotic and get undercut instantly and never sell all of them.
Always check the Sigils. I’ve had a lot of exotics that had sigils worth double the going price of the exotic. :-)
See you just wasted another few minutes. If you do that every day u’ll miss several hours a month which could be prolly lots of money.
Reaper – Anguîsh
Just because you’re posting on the forums doesn’t mean you can actually be playing the game at that time. Some people can do so during down time at work.
600+ hours played , 1400 items in the forge. What’s the result ? Nothing at all. When I see people getting it so easily, it makes me crazy! I have the feeling that i wasted lot of time.
Everything in this game is about random: put random items in the Mystic Forge and you will have a random chance to get a random item. Kill a random mob and MAYBE you will have a chance to get your precursor. It is very frustrating if it’s your main goal in the game, and excuse me, but it’s more like Lucky Weapons than Legendary Weapons…
I’ve got a decent sample size built up for rare Greatswords.
So far:
Total Mystic Forge combines – 3318 (Including the rares produced by the forge – 13,272 rares used)
Rares Produced – 2664
Exotics Produced – 654 (19.7% chance at exotics)
Dusks Produced – 4 (0.1205% chance at a dusk)
Dawns Produced – 0
None of the exotics produced were thrown back into the forge, so the #’s are from rare combines only.
On a side note, It’s been ~2035 Combines since my last Dusk. Almost 2/3 of my sample size hasn’t produced a single precursor. So I’ve been on an unlucky steak and it still continues. Not that I’m complaining, just don’t expect a precursor after 700+ combines.
(updated some of the #‘s since I’ve posted this)
(edited by Mr Spooky.5429)
So somewhere around a 1 in a 1000 chance… maybe slightly higher… Thanks a ton for all that information Mr. Spooky. That’s a really nice sample size :-) Nice to know the odds of getting an exotic are around 1 in 5 :-)
600+ hours played , 1400 items in the forge. What’s the result ? Nothing at all. When I see people getting it so easily, it makes me crazy! I have the feeling that i wasted lot of time.
that is how i feel excatly….i really hope something is done about this..
Thanks for the data, that’s awesome.
I do wonder if the distribution of exotics you get from level 80 rares is the same as the one that you get from level 80 exotics, though. In other words, are you only 5x as likely to get a Dusk from exotics as you are from rares (in accordance with the 20% chance of getting an exotic in the first place), or is the gap greater than 5x?
Given what has been said by Linsey this could be the case, but since the price difference between exotics and rares is more like 8x, rares still look like a better proposition at the moment.
In any case, congratulations on what looks to be a pretty decent profit thus far.
On a side note, if the chance is ~0.1%, I wouldn’t call 1700 combines without a precursor a particularly unlucky streak. It’s not great, but I wouldn’t call yourself particularly unlucky unless you got something like 3000 without a precursor.
(edited by lackofcheese.5617)
Ahmm I belive that I found the recipe for the Zap, its unknown recipe yet and I checked everywhere even wiki doesnt have it in their unknown result recipes.
Its definetly the most expensive recipe I have ever encountered.
I wont say the recipe until ill try it myself or some1 beat me to it but if it is the Zap so the mats atm more expensive than buying it from the TP normally, Trust me that this recipe is expensive as kitten and if it is truly Zap so you better buy it from TP than make it.
@RedHellsing What makes you think you found or have a clue about said recipe?
It’s over 9000!!!
back to all seriousness, I’m pretty sure you’re better off using exotics to start with, rares can result in rares, exotic weapons will always be exotics when you forge them. Or am I the only one thinking this and is there some math behind using rares over exotics?
The reason people use rares is because 4x rares are generally cheaper than 4x exotics. Rares have a roughly .5% chance though whereas exotics are 3.3% per forge. I guess using rares still have a better chance:cost ratio.
I would suspect that if you end up throwing every non-precursor back into the forge, starting with rares and starting with exotics probably give you about the same cost per likely precursor created.
The benefit of starting with rares is if you turn around and sell all non-precursor exotics, because then you still have some chance of getting a precursor, but you can also make back some of your initial gold investment selling off the exotics.
as I saied its not sure I might be wrong but the mats combination and the huge amount of gold needed for them make me think that it is the Zap
Thanks for that data, Mr Spooky! That’s the type of sample size we’ve been needing. And grats on the Dusks.
Did you do your forges at a specific time during the day? Is it confirmed that this affects whether you get Dawn or Dusk?
Did you do your forges at a specific time during the day? Is it confirmed that this affects whether you get Dawn or Dusk?
I never really paid attention to the in game time of days so I can’t really say. Also I wasn’t using any MF, just throwing that out there. Not saying MF doesn’t help (since it hasn’t been proven) I just wasn’t using any.