Guild Wars 2

*PLEASE keep this civilized.
It is time for the time gating in ascended crafting to go. I can understand some of the reasoning for having it in the beginning when ascended weapons came out. I can understand your need to protect the new market, and allow traders and crafters to make some money in the new area.
Ascended crafting is now at a place that it needs to be removed.

1. You made a game for all types of people, hardcore and casual. Not everyone can log in every day. This pushes getting a full set, further and further down the line. There is no progression other than waiting for time to pass.

2. Crafting is a money sink and a material sink. If people have massed wealth and items they should be able to craft all that they want, when they want. Also this would affect the market in a good way, creating more trade opportunities, and taking money and materials out of circulation.

3. The profit margins on the ascended crafting items are not close to the profit margins of other crafted items. Meaning there is room for more competition. In ascended weapons you are seeing profit margins between 20 % – 70 , in exotic crafting you are only seeing a profit margin in weapons at 16 – 50 % for sentinel and destroyer weapons and less than 10 % on normal exotics weapons.

http://www.gw2spidy.com/crafting/3?sort_margin=desc&min_level=80&max_level=&min_rating=400&max_rating=400&min_supply=&max_supply=

http://www.gw2spidy.com/crafting/3?sort_sell_price=desc&min_level=80&max_level=&min_rating=500&max_rating=&min_supply=&max_supply=

4 You already have another time gate (at least potential) in place. With empyreal and dragonite being limited in the amount that you could get by time, and events, there is no need to place another one on ecto refiment.

5. Ascended crafting should be more of a resource drain, not necessarily a time drain. It already requires a large amount of money, and resources, and the willingness and time to play several different areas of the game (world bosses, temples, wvw, jp’s, dungeons). You have the time component already in place in different ways, through time spent in the events / activities and see point # 4, with the collecting for empyreal and dragonite.

(I’ll possibly add more later, but I wanted to keep this short, and see what the response was)

Thanks.

+1

/15charsomething

Guess what, there are people that finished their ascended armor already.
Time gated items are great for people that want to profit with crafting, if you only want the armor, then work harder to get the gold and have the last tier of armor of the game.

Belzebu.3912:

Guess what, there are people that finished their ascended armor already.
Time gated items are great for people that want to profit with crafting, if you only want the armor, then work harder to get the gold and have the last tier of armor of the game.

Those are a fortune few. I am a light armor user, and don’t have a set of ascended armor because of ecto refinement time gating. By the way, I am fully ascended weapon wise, and have a stock pile of ecto refinements from weapon crafting. (so I’m not a whiner, that believes I can never get it done, I have and will – so its not a matter of working harder). With my current stock pile of mats and money I could have a full set VERY soon if it wasn’t for the time gate on ecto refinements.

To your point on profit from crafting, currently with the profit margin, it’s more of a monopoly then an open market. Removing the ecto refinement time gate would provide more competition and allow the market to move more.

As I stated in my original post there is a semi time gate, with empyreal and dragonite. The one on ecto refinement is unneeded.

If there aren’t time gate the players that had “monopoly” of materials would be able to craft tons on items and mold the market at their will, with time gate the same person will now only be able to keep in the market for a longer time w/o buying more materials, so the competition is much more fair.

I also have ascended weapon, I saved a lot of materials, and now I’ll profit from the initial batch of timed items, and when the price stabilize I’ll buy them with my profit and finish my armor.

I really see no harm in that mechanic. Ascended gear was developed not just a vertical progression for the game, the main reason was to make people spend time making it, and I think Anet really did it.

HappyDale.5398:

Belzebu.3912:

Guess what, there are people that finished their ascended armor already.
Time gated items are great for people that want to profit with crafting, if you only want the armor, then work harder to get the gold and have the last tier of armor of the game.

Those are a fortune few. I am a light armor user, and don’t have a set of ascended armor because of ecto refinement time gating. By the way, I am fully ascended weapon wise, and have a stock pile of ecto refinements from weapon crafting. (so I’m not a whiner, that believes I can never get it done, I have and will – so its not a matter of working harder). With my current stock pile of mats and money I could have a full set VERY soon if it wasn’t for the time gate on ecto refinements.

To your point on profit from crafting, currently with the profit margin, it’s more of a monopoly then an open market. Removing the ecto refinement time gate would provide more competition and allow the market to move more.

As I stated in my original post there is a suedo time gate, with empyreal and dragonite. The one on ecto refinement is unneeded.

He meant you can BUY ascended mats right now and have a full set already, not the raw mats that you have now that has to go through a time gate to craft.

No one is monopolizing the new ascended mats, every account can make one a day, there is no way to monopolize that unless you buy out all the supply which will not end good for you

240 days to make a armor that’s in middle of this time we’ll need change stats again because arena net nerf all month light armor professions. This time to make a armor set is possible in a game that’s don’t change professions every month because some kids pvp players cry to company if get some damage from other profession. We see this in ELEMENTAL, RANGER, NECRO, my sugestion: Arenanet close all pve maps, wxw servers and increase PVP servers, why lost time and money with LIVING"S if PVP KIDS control all game life: OHHH! I PLAY HARD IN PVP TO ONE DAY BUY HUMAN t3 please AR remove flamekissed armor (parabimparabah flamekissed removed) ohhhh AR necro give me much condition i cry every night when i dream with much necro’s kill me in pvp (parabin paraba necro nerf asap). Ohh AR Rangers hurt me a lot on PVP (parabin para ba). Humm maybe change game name will be nice too, same logo to Grind Wars.

aff!

HappyDale.5398:

4 You already have another time gate (at least potential) in place. With empyreal and dragonite being limited in the amount that you could get by time, and events, there is no need to place another one on ecto refiment.

5. Ascended crafting should be more of a resource drain, not necessarily a time drain. It already requires a large amount of money, and resources, and the willingness and time to play several different areas of the game (world bosses, temples, wvw, jp’s, dungeons). You have the time component already in place in different ways, through time spent in the events / activities and see point # 4, with the collecting for empyreal and dragonite.

(I’ll possibly add more later, but I wanted to keep this short, and see what the response was)

Thanks.

As Dragonite, Empyreal and Bloodstone drop from Giant Wintersday Gifts, those arent really time gated anymore and can basically be bought.

In my opinion, the only time gate in asc armor crafting are the 30 laurels per set.

The other mayor time gate is ascended cloth, which is obtainable with gold.

Izaya.2906:

He meant you can BUY ascended mats right now and have a full set already, not the raw mats that you have now that has to go through a time gate to craft.

No one is monopolizing the new ascended mats, every account can make one a day, there is no way to monopolize that unless you buy out all the supply which will not end good for you

Definition of ‘Monopoly’

A situation in which a single company or group owns all or nearly all of the market for a given type of product or service. By definition, monopoly is characterized by an absence of competition, which often results in high prices and inferior products.

First, I NOT complaining about the people that had the foresight to plan ahead and invest in the ascended market and are now profiting.

My definition of monopoly is based on a lack of competition, removing the time gate on ecto refinements would increase competition lowering prices and having an positive affect on consumers and allowing greater access to more people. This is just addressing the side of how the time gate affects the market.

To one of my original points, 1) I find buying everything a huge waste of money. 2) The only true limiting factor that I have and possibly a lot of others, is the time gate on the refinement.

I like “working” for my things, and don’t mind it. I’m not asking or wanting people to get ascended items like candy.

+1 to the OP’s suggestion.

Armor should not be gated as heavily as this. Laurels, karma, empyreal fragments, dragonite ore, augur stones (skill points), deldrimor steel and elonian leather, in addition to the massive amounts of cloth needed was really over the top already. This is just plain silly at this point.

HappyDale.5398:

Izaya.2906:

He meant you can BUY ascended mats right now and have a full set already, not the raw mats that you have now that has to go through a time gate to craft.

No one is monopolizing the new ascended mats, every account can make one a day, there is no way to monopolize that unless you buy out all the supply which will not end good for you

My definition of monopoly is based on a lack of competition, removing the time gate on ecto refinements would increase competition lowering prices and having an positive affect on consumers and allowing greater access to more people. This is just addressing the side of how the time gate affects the market.

To one of my original points, 1) I find buying everything a huge waste of money. 2) The only true limiting factor that I have and possibly a lot of others, is the time gate on the refinement.

I like “working” for my things, and don’t mind it. I’m not asking or wanting people to get ascended items like candy.

Removing the time gate on Silk Weaving Thread is not a good idea because it would affect other mat prices too much.

If everybody would be allowed to craft as many as they wanted, and subsequently as many Bolts of Damask as they want, prices for wool, cotton and linen would go through the roof because the supply of those cloths is simply not there.

Wanze.8410:

Removing the time gate on Silk Weaving Thread is not a good idea because it would affect other mat prices too much.

If everybody would be allowed to craft as many as they wanted, and subsequently as many Bolts of Damask as they want, prices for wool, cotton and linen would go through the roof because the supply of those cloths is simply not there.

Thus creating a new market for said items, and another opportunity for others to make money.

I love free market, and competition.

HappyDale.5398:

Wanze.8410:

Removing the time gate on Silk Weaving Thread is not a good idea because it would affect other mat prices too much.

If everybody would be allowed to craft as many as they wanted, and subsequently as many Bolts of Damask as they want, prices for wool, cotton and linen would go through the roof because the supply of those cloths is simply not there.

Thus creating a new market for said items, and another opportunity for others to make money.

I love free market, and competition.

I sold all my bolts of gossamer the day before patch for 18s each.

I kept all my wool, linen and cotton because it will rise eventually.
Even though they dipped a bit since patch (people listing their hoarded bolts because they expected to make big profits on patch day), their supply will be drained sooner or later.

HappyDale.5398:

Definition of ‘Monopoly’ …

I know the definition, that is why I wrote it in quotes, it wouldn’t be a pure monopoly, but instead would be a selected few with virtually no competition, for the sake of making the post smaller I wrote it, but assume good sense was a mistake of my part.

HappyDale.5398:

I like “working” for my things, and don’t mind it. I’m not asking or wanting people to get ascended items like candy.

I agree that Anet could reduce the time game, but not remove it, otherwise ascended gear would be like candy.

http://imageshack.com/a/img34/4258/m7b0.jpg

#saynotogrindwars

i find this jpg on internet and i support this idea!

Belzebu.3912:

Snip

On a side note, I never quoted you. My “monopoly” comment was addressed to the post after your original one.

HappyDale.5398:

Belzebu.3912:

Snip

On a side note, I never quoted you. My “monopoly” comment was addressed to the post after your original one.

I see, nvm then : 3

HappyDale.5398:

1. You made a game for all types of people, hardcore and casual. Not everyone can log in every day. This pushes getting a full set, further and further down the line. There is no progression other than waiting for time to pass.

Time gating favors casual players who don’t have have a lot of time to play every day. Without it, the materials required would be too expensive for casual players to buy.

HappyDale.5398:

4 You already have another time gate (at least potential) in place. With empyreal and dragonite being limited in the amount that you could get by time, and events, there is no need to place another one on ecto refiment.

There is absolutely nothing even remotely time gated about the obsidian refinement materials.

vonhellsing.2819:

http://imageshack.com/a/img34/4258/m7b0.jpg

#saynotogrindwars

i find this jpg on internet and i support this idea!

Then you should be in favor of time gating. Without it, the prices on the materials that go into ectoplasm refinement would skyrocket and most players would be forced to grind for them rather than just buy them from the trading post.

EnemyCrusher.7324:

Time gating favors casual players who don’t have have a lot of time to play every day. Without it, the materials required would be too expensive for casual players to buy.

I don’t want to get into a debate on definitions of hardcore / casual…. But from a market stand point, MORE competition would cause prices to fall, therefore benefiting more people with less money. Then all consumers would benefit.

Also if player A plays 7 days, and player B plays 3 days with the current time gate, player B is 4 days behind, thus creating a larger gap between “casuals” and “hardcore” If anything time gating hurts the casual player more.

EnemyCrusher.7324:

There is absolutely nothing even remotely time gated about the obsidian refinement materials.

Dragonite:

Temple x 6, Karka Queen = 180
Mid bosses ie: dragons = 75-125
low bosses ie: wurm, maw = 24-40

not counting guild quest, and wvw…so a minimum of 279 dragonite ore / day. BUT requiring a large time commitment spread out through the day. The same can be said for empyreal.

That is why i labeled it as time gated

People sitting on large piles of materials would be able to craft their ascended armor NOW if it wasn’t for this stupid time gated crafting. They have played the game and earned the materials so why should they have to wait? More casual or newer players just don’t have these materials and the work to get them will naturally time gate them. The super casual players may never get the materials to craft ascended armor so why do we need to make their lives even harder by forcing them to login every day to craft their ascended materials???

Time gating is giving money to players who do NOT want ascended armor or who choose to wait for all the impatient rich players to buy their ascended materials.

Why can’t we just let the TP pay the farmers for their grind instead? Everyone is already forced to grind out their vision crystals AND level crating to 500 anyway so PLEASE remove the stupid T7 time gating.

Belzebu.3912:

HappyDale.5398:

Definition of ‘Monopoly’ …

I know the definition, that is why I wrote it in quotes, it wouldn’t be a pure monopoly, but instead would be a selected few with virtually no competition, for the sake of making the post smaller I wrote it, but assume good sense was a mistake of my part.

HappyDale.5398:

I like “working” for my things, and don’t mind it. I’m not asking or wanting people to get ascended items like candy.

I agree that Anet could reduce the time game, but not remove it, otherwise ascended gear would be like candy.

Who cares if it’s like candy?

It saves time — not cost/materials — that’s one of the OP’s points.

I’m not going to feel more special because it took 54 days to craft up my ascended armor. The only detriment to myself is the time gate.

Yeah I can buy the time gated cloth for crazy prices right now, but how is that crafting?

It would be nice if there was a detailed explanation from ANet as to why time gating is necessary. Assuming the explanation was reasonable, I think the community would be a little more satiated with the current situation.

EDIT: Oh I know the reason — it’s to boost the daily log-in numbers.

juno.1840:

It would be nice if there was a detailed explanation from ANet as to why time gating is necessary. Assuming the explanation was reasonable, I think the community would be a little more satiated with the current situation.

Here I’ll answer for you.
Anet: We currently use time-gating to keep people logging in day after day in the absence of compelling content. If/when we figure out how to create engaging and non-repetitive methods of play, you’ll see these types of systems phased out as players begin logging in to play the actual game, rather than click 1 button and log out again.

EDIT: saw you edited while I was responding, looks like you figured it out already XD

Ascended gear, like Legendaries, need to be gated. The only thing that should change is the ability to sell Ascended gear… like Legendaries.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Ascended gear, like Legendaries, need to be gated. The only thing that should change is the ability to sell Ascended gear… like Legendaries.

Except that Legendaries aren’t time-gated…

Silas.8630:

juno.1840:

It would be nice if there was a detailed explanation from ANet as to why time gating is necessary. Assuming the explanation was reasonable, I think the community would be a little more satiated with the current situation.

Here I’ll answer for you.
Anet: We currently use time-gating to keep people logging in day after day in the absence of compelling content. If/when we figure out how to create engaging and non-repetitive methods of play, you’ll see these types of systems phased out as players begin logging in to play the actual game, rather than click 1 button and log out again.

EDIT: saw you edited while I was responding, looks like you figured it out already XD

I like your verbiage better than mine .

juno.1840:

EDIT: Oh I know the reason — it’s to boost the daily log-in numbers.

This should be obvious to anyone with half a brain…..and player that ALSO have the other half realize this is necessary for ANet to potentially generate any revenue beyond original game sales. If players don’t log in, they don’t spend money on gems.

Like it or not, vilifying Anet for wanting to generate revenue to keep the servers running is very narrow minded (and very unrealistic).

Brother Grimm.5176:

juno.1840:

EDIT: Oh I know the reason — it’s to boost the daily log-in numbers.

This should be obvious to anyone with half a brain…..and player that ALSO have the other half realize this is necessary for ANet to potentially generate any revenue beyond original game sales. If players don’t log in, they don’t spend money on gems.

Like it or not, vilifying Anet for wanting to generate revenue to keep the servers running is very narrow minded (and very unrealistic).

Making us log in EVERY day does NOT get them any revenue. People buy stuff in the gem store because they LIKE it. People login to play the game to have FUN. Time gating is NOT fun. Collecting the small mountain of materials needed for ascended gear takes plenty of time already, no need to tax us further with once a day crafting.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Ascended gear, like Legendaries, need to be gated. The only thing that should change is the ability to sell Ascended gear… like Legendaries.

I think that I have already demonstrated that ascended crafting is already gated. As it should be, to a point.

Gated:

By laurels,
Amount of time needed to collect Dragonite, and Empyreal
Amount of time needed to collect mats, or farm money to buy mats
The shear amount of money needed to craft them, let alone buy ascended items from the TP

If someone truly wants ascended gear, they will have to spend a lot of time in game getting the resources or money to buy the materials.

Or buy gems….

The time gate on the ecto refinement is NOT needed. That is what I would like changed.

The stupid thing is it doesn’t stop players form getting ascended armor quickly so long as they have enough gold to buy the mats that can be bought.

Elric Of Melnibone.4781:

Brother Grimm.5176:

juno.1840:

EDIT: Oh I know the reason — it’s to boost the daily log-in numbers.

This should be obvious to anyone with half a brain…..and player that ALSO have the other half realize this is necessary for ANet to potentially generate any revenue beyond original game sales. If players don’t log in, they don’t spend money on gems.

Like it or not, vilifying Anet for wanting to generate revenue to keep the servers running is very narrow minded (and very unrealistic).

Making us log in EVERY day does NOT get them any revenue. People buy stuff in the gem store because they LIKE it. People login to play the game to have FUN. Time gating is NOT fun. Collecting the small mountain of materials needed for ascended gear takes plenty of time already, no need to tax us further with once a day crafting.

My point has NOTHING to do with collecting materials or time-gating of crafting….it’s simple economics based on their model. If people don’t log into the game, they have ZERO chance to purchase that item in the gem store they LIKE. It’s really that simple.

I’m not saying you have to like it, but there IS a valid reason ANet want’s you in the game everyday.

I agree, the game needs more of a resource drain, not a time drain. The hoards of both T5 and T6 materials, as well as, WvW badges come to mind.

The one thing about time, you can’t replace it, it’s the most precious resource we have, it shouldn’t be wasted, and IMO a time gate is a waste of time.

Brother Grimm.5176:

My point has NOTHING to do with collecting materials or time-gating of crafting….it’s simple economics based on their model. If people don’t log into the game, they have ZERO chance to purchase that item in the gem store they LIKE. It’s really that simple.

I’m not saying you have to like it, but there IS a valid reason ANet want’s you in the game everyday.

I understand you point, first off.

I want to keep this thread positive, and also not get off topic too much. This is the crux of the matter. To keep us playing, then buy default to keep people spending money for gems.

Currently there are only two “hard” time gates. Daily laurels (by default monthly), and daily ecto refinement. Everything else is just time, and people choosing to do X activity because they want to, in order to achieve a goal, or because its fun and they enjoy it.

Look at the Living story…how long does it take to complete the meta? 2-4 days? I know that I have completed every LS meta except SAB, I believe it takes me on average 3 days.

There are many ways to keep players playing, compelling content, compelling story, fun activities, etc.

Using ecto refinement as one of the major “hard” time gates, and then by default to say that arena net did that to keep players logging in everyday, seems like a strong indictment on a lack of “good” reasons to keep people logging in.

I really hope that they didn’t use the ecto time gate just to keep people logging in everyday, so they could increase the potential for gem sales. If it is, it says something about the overall content.

The daily achievements WHERE setup to get players playing and spread around every day. I figure out what I want to do every day based on those achievements. Since ascended crafting came out I now have to buy, refine, and craft materials every day BEFORE I start working on the daily to make sure I don’t forget.

My major drive for Laurels was for ascended rings and infusions, but thankfully I stopped spending them in fear of exactly what they did with ascended recipes. Most of my infusion slots sit empty because of the ‘Laurel gating’.

I am pretty sure ‘Ecto gating’ was done to keep the little man in the T7 marketplace and therefore in the running for the gear upgrade race. I think this is wrong because Vision Crystal’s pretty much already do that. If market stability was really their goal then time gating would be removed once the demand for T7 materials cools down in the TP, but it won’t be.

HappyDale.5398:

EnemyCrusher.7324:

Time gating favors casual players who don’t have have a lot of time to play every day. Without it, the materials required would be too expensive for casual players to buy.

I don’t want to get into a debate on definitions of hardcore / casual…. But from a market stand point, MORE competition would cause prices to fall, therefore benefiting more people with less money. Then all consumers would benefit.

More competition would cause the prices of the time gated mats to fall, but cause the price of the materials required to make them to rise. Currently the materials required to make deldrimor steel, spiritwood, damask, and elonian leather are much cheaper than the resultant materials. This price difference is because of the time gate, and it is the reason casual players can afford ascended crafting at all. If the time gates were removed, demand would quickly overtake supply on materials such as cotton scraps, cotton prices would skyrocket, and casual players wouldn’t be able to afford crafting damask.

HappyDale.5398:

Also if player A plays 7 days, and player B plays 3 days with the current time gate, player B is 4 days behind, thus creating a larger gap between “casuals” and “hardcore” If anything time gating hurts the casual player more.

Hardcore players will typically play for hours/day while casual players play for minutes/day. If a hardcore player plays for 6 hours/day and a casual player plays for 20 minutes per day, the time gate allows that casual player to keep up.

HappyDale.5398:

EnemyCrusher.7324:

There is absolutely nothing even remotely time gated about the obsidian refinement materials.

Dragonite:

Temple x 6, Karka Queen = 180
Mid bosses ie: dragons = 75-125
low bosses ie: wurm, maw = 24-40

not counting guild quest, and wvw…so a minimum of 279 dragonite ore / day. BUT requiring a large time commitment spread out through the day. The same can be said for empyreal.

That is why i labeled it as time gated

Dragonite:
And Scarlet invasions in addition to those. Also, those rewards are daily character-bound, so you can get all that times the number of characters. Plus you get dragonite from killing keep lords in WvW.

Empyreal Fragments:
You can get these from each jumping puzzle once per day per character, and from every WvW tower lord and supply camp supervisor limitlessly.

All 3:
This is all not to mention that they now also drop from Wintersday gifts (which are really common), and are rewarded for certain living story achievements.

EnemyCrusher.7324:

Snip

Using your definition of a casual player, 20 mins a day. Anyone in that category would have a had time even starting in Ascended crafting. When it takes over 170 gold worth of materials (each profession) in order just to level Hunts, Arti, and Weapons (400-500), then you have the price of the weapon itself.

http://www.gw2crafts.net/total.html

You are right that removing the ecto gate the lower tier mats would also increase more then they are, but you would also have more people capitalizing on this new market. Potentially letting the “casual” get into this market and make money off of selling lower tier mats.

Concerning your last rebuttal on dragonite and empryeal….Yes in theory there is a near unlimited amount that you can receive in a day. But, it is still largely affected by time, and doing all those events. I think we both can agree that it takes a descent amount of time to collect them, potentially slowing people down.

EnemyCrusher.7324:

More competition would cause the prices of the time gated mats to fall, but cause the price of the materials required to make them to rise. Currently the materials required to make deldrimor steel, spiritwood, damask, and elonian leather are much cheaper than the resultant materials. This price difference is because of the time gate, and it is the reason casual players can afford ascended crafting at all. If the time gates were removed, demand would quickly overtake supply on materials such as cotton scraps, cotton prices would skyrocket, and casual players wouldn’t be able to afford crafting damask.

Hardcore players will typically play for hours/day while casual players play for minutes/day. If a hardcore player plays for 6 hours/day and a casual player plays for 20 minutes per day, the time gate allows that casual player to keep up.

If someone only plays 20 minutes a day they can’t possibly have the gold for materials to craft ascended gear unless they are buying gold with gems. They also might not even have the laurels to buy the recipes.

Currently the market is pretty saturated with T7 metal, wood, and leather and the prices of the T2-T5 raw materials are very reasonable because clearly many people are farming them. The same would happen with cloth. Yes, there would be a huge spike at first, but that wouldn’t hurt anyone as everyone can go out there and ‘farm’ their own. Over time the prices would stabilize to somewhere higher than they where, just like the metals, woods, and leathers did. This would in no way hurt the casual player.

Crafting T7 materials should require work, either earning the gold to buy the ingredients or gathering them yourself. I am fine with either, but limiting the player to only one craft a day does not increase the difficulty, it just annoys players, some to the point of just punting on ascended gear altogether.

HappyDale.5398:

Using ecto refinement as one of the major “hard” time gates, and then by default to say that arena net did that to keep players logging in everyday, seems like a strong indictment on a lack of “good” reasons to keep people logging in.

Absolutely, to me it implies that the fortnightly LS updates have failed.