Too many legendarys

Too many legendarys

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Posted by: sostronk.8167

sostronk.8167

So I jump into WvW the other night and all I can see is rainbows and unicorns. Ill throw it out there, I may be the one and only, but I think legendarys are way too easy to get.

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Posted by: Saulius.8430

Saulius.8430

define easy. ~4 months for semi-hardcores. less for harcore players. more for casuals.

kill all ze thingz

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Posted by: Firegoth.6427

Firegoth.6427

define easy. ~4 months for semi-hardcores. less for harcore players. more for casuals.

Exactly.

1+1 = potato

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Posted by: Margicar.8694

Margicar.8694

Anet just failed to follow through with their initial ideas on how they told us we were going to acquire them, its too easy to just buy them off the TP. This doesn’t feel anywhere near the name of Legendary………

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Posted by: Firegoth.6427

Firegoth.6427

Anet just failed to follow through with their initial ideas on how they told us we were going to acquire them, its too easy to just buy them off the TP. This doesn’t feel anywhere near the name of Legendary………

Rich kids aside. (seriously, that doesn’t even hold water)
If you’re wealthy enough to buy one off the TP, then you deserve it for being successful.
Screw the game, you’re a successful person, you should have everything you seek in life.

You might have succeeded in a game, but that rich fella succeeded in life.
Life > video games.

1+1 = potato

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Posted by: Levitas.1953

Levitas.1953

either you cant afford a legendary or you crafted one not for the skin but for vanity. ill craft sunrise soon, i dont care if its too common or whatever: i love it.
stop looking at the others, look more at your char instead.

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Posted by: Aza.2105

Aza.2105

either you cant afford a legendary or you crafted one not for the skin but for vanity. ill craft sunrise soon, i dont care if its too common or whatever: i love it.
stop looking at the others, look more at your char instead.

This.

You guys who care about what others have, are quite insecure and need people to have nothing in order to make you feel good and accomplished. Focus on yourself instead of projecting upon others.

Amd Ryzen 1800x – Amd Fury X -64GB of ram
Windows 10

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Posted by: Svarty.8019

Svarty.8019

So much USA crazy here. I laughed.

Nobody at Anet loves WvW like Grouch loved PvP. That’s what we need, a WvW Grouch, but taller.

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Posted by: gaborkaldy.3210

gaborkaldy.3210

I don’t think there is too much legendary out there and even every single player will get one still I’m making the legendary weapon only for myself because i like the skin/effect etc… I’am a casual/ WvW player who don’t know how to play with the TP so probably i will be the last person in this game gets his own but still i will be happy.

Some people are awesomely happy that precursors and mats went crazy in the past few months ( though they bought theirs for 50-100g) because they think this makes the something special/uniqe. The fact this weapon is 80% about the gold. If you have time to farm gold/ play with TP you can make one every month.

It’s always Beer Time!
Desolation – [TEU]

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Posted by: Vol.5241

Vol.5241

I do agree that there are too many legendaries. Even the hardcore players got them within a month of release. I was hoping that it would have taken 4 months for hardcore players to make them and maybe a year for casuals.

A big feature of legendaries are there rarities. Now you see them everywhere.

The best solution to this right now is to introduce more legendary skins for each weapon type so that we see more variety.

[Permabanned on Forums]
[Currently Inactive, Playing BF4]
Magic find works. http://sinasdf.imgur.com/

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Posted by: Sauzo.6821

Sauzo.6821

Well did you guys really think that in an MMO with thousands of people playing everyday and the way legendaries are set up being pretty much just a gold sink, that you were gonna be a special and unique snowflake after 5 months into the release? You people that are so worried about others really need to just focus on your toon like Aza.2105 said.

Crafted: Meteorlogicus, Incinerator, Juggernaut, Sunrise, Bifrost, The Dreamer, Kudzu
Am I legendary yet!?

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Posted by: sostronk.8167

sostronk.8167

Well did you guys really think that in an MMO with thousands of people playing everyday and the way legendaries are set up being pretty much just a gold sink, that you were gonna be a special and unique snowflake after 5 months into the release? You people that are so worried about others really need to just focus on your toon like Aza.2105 said.

I actually dont have a legendary. I am in the position to craft two with everything I need, but I am holding off for now to observe the market. Im not really good with that stuff tbh so I need some time to think about what I am going to do. The whole concept of legendary though, its kind of contradictory when they are common right?

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Posted by: Deadcell.9052

Deadcell.9052

Of course your going to see more legendarys, the fact that anyone can just google “legendary weapons” put in a credit card and buy one makes the whole thing a joke.

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Posted by: Sauzo.6821

Sauzo.6821

Very much so. Like i’ve said tons of times before, the only thing legendary about legendaries is doing WvW jump puzzles. Everything else is just a time/gold sink, well excluding precursors which is just flat out a gold sink. I myself have Kudzu on my ranger and i like it. Sure i’ve seen others around but who cares, i got mine and i worked for it and im happy with it. That’s all that matters at the end of the day.

And of course as an MMO ages, the epic loot will become more and more common unless they keep the gear treadmill going and have stuff like endgame raiding that require 40 other likeminded people to sink 6 hours a day into raiding for raid gear. Or they can just take away all legendaries from everyone and have a lotto where only 3 people per server will be randomly drawn to have a legendary. the rest can never get one. That would truely make em legendary

Crafted: Meteorlogicus, Incinerator, Juggernaut, Sunrise, Bifrost, The Dreamer, Kudzu
Am I legendary yet!?

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Posted by: Aza.2105

Aza.2105

I do agree that there are too many legendaries. Even the hardcore players got them within a month of release. I was hoping that it would have taken 4 months for hardcore players to make them and maybe a year for casuals.

A big feature of legendaries are there rarities. Now you see them everywhere.

The best solution to this right now is to introduce more legendary skins for each weapon type so that we see more variety.

I can’t imagine how you and others who are like you feel when someone is able to achieve irl without putting the amount of effort in you had to do to achieve the samething.

The comedy is, people will just blame others as if they are the problem i.e too many legendaries, make them harder so others can’t get them (meaning, only I can have it so I can feel good about myself). When the reality of the situation is that its not their problem but rather the ones complaining about them.

To make it short, get some business and stop worrying about others. If you weren’t so idle you wouldn’t care what others are doing. The only time you should care if it directly intrudes upon your life.

Amd Ryzen 1800x – Amd Fury X -64GB of ram
Windows 10

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Posted by: Vol.5241

Vol.5241

Of course your going to see more legendarys, the fact that anyone can just google “legendary weapons” put in a credit card and buy one makes the whole thing a joke.

You do know that buying a legendary through gems costs +$2000, right? Maybe even on the black market, half of that?

The number of people who buy a legendary through real $ are far and few.

[Permabanned on Forums]
[Currently Inactive, Playing BF4]
Magic find works. http://sinasdf.imgur.com/

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Posted by: Deadcell.9052

Deadcell.9052

Of course your going to see more legendarys, the fact that anyone can just google “legendary weapons” put in a credit card and buy one makes the whole thing a joke.

You do know that buying a legendary through gems costs +$2000, right? Maybe even on the black market, half of that?

The number of people who buy a legendary through real $ are far and few.

I am well aware of that but the fact that the option exists really goes against everything a Legendary should be about. What really grinds my gears about legendary’s though is that they really are not hard to get, the whole journey (with the exception of gift of mastery) is just grind grind grind in hopes RNG is good to you and you have enough gold in your pocket on any particular day to buy what you need, there really is no skill involved, all you need is a few hours a day and knowledge of the best farm spots around, there is nothing Legendary about that, I am actually surprised that the stats on all Legendary’s don’t read “X” amount of Magic find, “X” amount of gold find from foes, “X” amount of run speed because that is all a Legendary represents.

In a few more months you will thousands more Legendary’s everyday, hopefully the next batch of Legendary’s Anet creates will have a better system utilizing ones skill, achievements and accomplishments throughout the world of Tyria, not the Rng based/“just buy it now its on sale” system we have now.

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Posted by: Svarty.8019

Svarty.8019

the fact that anyone can just google “legendary weapons” put in a credit card and buy one makes the whole thing a joke.

This whole situation makes Isiah Cartwright looks like a fool (allegedly, and in my eyes).

Nobody at Anet loves WvW like Grouch loved PvP. That’s what we need, a WvW Grouch, but taller.

(edited by Svarty.8019)

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Posted by: Heylo.4938

Heylo.4938

I don’t really care if there are legendaries everywhere. They’re pretty and I like to look at them, so it’s nice to see someone standing around with one. I’ll still continue to go for the ones I want (The Moot and Frostfang) because I want them and like how they look. I don’t really care if anyone else has them. I just want to go stand in Gendarran and watch Frostfang breathe frost.
I feel as though calling them “Legendary” is a bit misleading. There’s nothing really legendary about getting them. You have to have a lot of gold (or a lot of patience to farm) and a lot of luck. You have to have some sort of skills to get through the dungeons, be it playing skills or people skills to get someone to carry you through. You also have to be able to jump, or have a mesmer friend who can jump.
The fact that you can buy them sort of cheapens it, in my eyes, but then again, having’ 2k gold without buying it off a gold seller? That is pretty ridiculous. I do know a few people who just play the TP and have multiple legendaries. I’m not sure if they actually know how or could go out and play the game though.

TLDR: Who cares if there are a million legendaries? Anyone who wants one, should be able to get one in the long run..if they work for it. Anyone who wants to save up all the karma, gold, and badges should be able to get a legendary.

Sickest Guild [NA] Blackgate

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Posted by: Pixels.6532

Pixels.6532

Of course your going to see more legendarys, the fact that anyone can just google “legendary weapons” put in a credit card and buy one makes the whole thing a joke.

You do know that buying a legendary through gems costs +$2000, right? Maybe even on the black market, half of that?

The number of people who buy a legendary through real $ are far and few.

I think Mr. Smith said that gold costs from gold sellers run around 300%+ marked down, so about $660 vs the $2000 if you want to gamble on Gold Sellers.

I just happen to have an offer in my inbox for 2160 gd for $520.00. Don’t know if it still stands though, I reported him despite his (or her) profession of love.

Sanctum of Rall

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Posted by: Vol.5241

Vol.5241

Of course your going to see more legendarys, the fact that anyone can just google “legendary weapons” put in a credit card and buy one makes the whole thing a joke.

You do know that buying a legendary through gems costs +$2000, right? Maybe even on the black market, half of that?

The number of people who buy a legendary through real $ are far and few.

I think Mr. Smith said that gold costs from gold sellers run around 300%+ marked down, so about $660 vs the $2000 if you want to gamble on Gold Sellers.

I just happen to have an offer in my inbox for 2160 gd for $520.00. Don’t know if it still stands though, I reported him despite his (or her) profession of love.

Even $600 for a black market legendary is too much considering the risk of getting banned.

[Permabanned on Forums]
[Currently Inactive, Playing BF4]
Magic find works. http://sinasdf.imgur.com/

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Posted by: Pixels.6532

Pixels.6532

Even $600 for a black market legendary is too much considering the risk of getting banned.

I would guess the majority of Legendary purchasers did so via a combination of in game gold and gems with the IGG being the greater portion. I think you’re right about the black market, too risky, but who knows…

Sanctum of Rall

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Posted by: Firegoth.6427

Firegoth.6427

I totally agree that legendaries are more common at the moment, but still rare.

Therefore, to become a special snowflake one need to get more!!

Often script that happens to me in the game:
Random player: “nice weapon”
weapon switch
Random player: “lol… 2 legendaries?”
Me: “3, soon 4.”
Random player: “o.o”

Someday we’ll find it
The legendary connection
The hardcores, the casuals and me

1+1 = potato

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Posted by: My Sweet Lily.1952

My Sweet Lily.1952

Easy way to prevent this (well some).
Make Legendarys Account-Bound as soon as it pops from the mystic forge. Like it should have been.

Nymeriali #Druid
[TLA] Desolation (EU)

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Posted by: Dempsey.8760

Dempsey.8760

Very much so. Like i’ve said tons of times before, the only thing legendary about legendaries is doing WvW jump puzzles. Everything else is just a time/gold sink, well excluding precursors which is just flat out a gold sink. I myself have Kudzu on my ranger and i like it. Sure i’ve seen others around but who cares, i got mine and i worked for it and im happy with it. That’s all that matters at the end of the day.

And of course as an MMO ages, the epic loot will become more and more common unless they keep the gear treadmill going and have stuff like endgame raiding that require 40 other likeminded people to sink 6 hours a day into raiding for raid gear. Or they can just take away all legendaries from everyone and have a lotto where only 3 people per server will be randomly drawn to have a legendary. the rest can never get one. That would truely make em legendary

I used to play a game metin2, on the standard pub severs the first male and first female toons to hit lvl 99 got armor that no one else could get.

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Posted by: Svarty.8019

Svarty.8019

I totally agree that legendaries are more common at the moment, but still rare.

Therefore, to become a special snowflake one need to get more!!

Often script that happens to me in the game:
Random player: “nice weapon”
weapon switch
Random player: “lol… 2 legendaries?”
Me: “3, soon 4.”
Random player: “o.o”

I had this conversation tonight…

The next line was, “Where did you get the gold? Gold sellers?”
“Playing the TP, I can make 100 gold in 4 hours”
“That’s BS”
“It’s true, but you don’t have to believe me”
“No, I mean it’s BS that you can get Legendaries by playing the TP”
“It’s like RL”

I wasn’t impressed.

Nobody at Anet loves WvW like Grouch loved PvP. That’s what we need, a WvW Grouch, but taller.

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Posted by: Firegoth.6427

Firegoth.6427

I totally agree that legendaries are more common at the moment, but still rare.

Therefore, to become a special snowflake one need to get more!!

Often script that happens to me in the game:
Random player: “nice weapon”
weapon switch
Random player: “lol… 2 legendaries?”
Me: “3, soon 4.”
Random player: “o.o”

I had this conversation tonight…

The next line was, “Where did you get the gold? Gold sellers?”
“Playing the TP, I can make 100 gold in 4 hours”
“That’s BS”
“It’s true, but you don’t have to believe me”
“No, I mean it’s BS that you can get Legendaries by playing the TP”
“It’s like RL”

I wasn’t impressed.

I tell them I farm cursed shore 24/7 so they can tap their own shoulders thinking I got no life.
Other than TP, why would anyone in his right mind reveal his gold making methods?

I love it when I get whispers, sometimes I send people on expeditions to deepest parts of WvW telling them there’s a patch of omnomberries farm they can sell for 50s.

Me and my leggies forever and ever <3

1+1 = potato

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Posted by: Nijjion.2069

Nijjion.2069

Anet just failed to follow through with their initial ideas on how they told us we were going to acquire them, its too easy to just buy them off the TP. This doesn’t feel anywhere near the name of Legendary………

The price that they are on TP for… yeah they seem pretty Legendary.

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Posted by: akamon.2769

akamon.2769

they’re not “super easy” to get. they still take time and dedication, in and out of game, if you will.

i’ll agree that everyone perhaps expected something different from what ANet had said in the beginning, or perhaps we just misunderstood? i don’t feel they should be able to be bought off the TP either though.. but hey, if people have the “power” to do so…

but that doesn’t mean you should or need to discount the effort put into the existing legendaries.

just focus on the skins that you enjoy. play the game you want to. no need to let someone else’s “achievements” (i only put quote becuase i know some of you will say “it’s not an achievement bla bla”) affect you?? if you dislike them so much, then hunt them down in WvW. that is all you really needed.

Akaimon | Jolly Good Guardian
Akaigi | Warrior Made of Wood
[CDS] – Sanctum of Rall

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Posted by: sostronk.8167

sostronk.8167

I agree about the achievement thing. I had been working towards acquiring my legendary. Im now in place to make it. But why? What it takes to get it doesn’t give me a sense of achievement. There are only a few components in the legendary that give me a sense of achievement. There is 100% world completion (which isn’t that hard) and badges of honor (which you can get from never actually kiling anyone in wvw thanks to JP and the number of badges is way too low). I think its too late to revert the Legendary, there are way too many out there and Anet has failed massively on what is supposed to be the ënd game content". Many may not see it, but when you fail at this stuff, you reduce the lifespan of a game. That affects all of us, whether we have no legendary or dozens.

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Posted by: Desbreko.7906

Desbreko.7906

So I jump into WvW the other night and all I can see is rainbows and unicorns.

Wait, why is this a bad thing? I’d probably WvW more if ANet added rainbow and unicorn effects to siege weapons.

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Posted by: Minos.5168

Minos.5168

I’m not too crazy about any particular legendary skin… Especially when I could get multiple armor sets (for different characters) for the cost of a single legendary.

I’ve got a job. I can’t play all the time.

The fact that I log-in and see so many people with one just makes them less desirable for me.

Why would I want to put so much work into getting something that everyone else already has?

Besides… There’s going to be an expansion with new weapon and armor skins some time this year.

I think I’ll save up for those.

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Posted by: fellyn.5083

fellyn.5083

either you cant afford a legendary or you crafted one not for the skin but for vanity. ill craft sunrise soon, i dont care if its too common or whatever: i love it.
stop looking at the others, look more at your char instead.

Exactly.. I’m using a glyphic mace skin because I like it even though it’s pretty kitten common. You can buy it for 11c off the market. Although it doesn’t help that there are not very many nice looking mace skins, legendary included.

(edited by fellyn.5083)

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Posted by: Firegoth.6427

Firegoth.6427

Love this how everyone pretend so many people got legendaries that they become “common”.
If they’re so common, where’s yours?

Those people want you to see them in their glory so they afk infront of the bank or TP in LA. spam skills in busy waypoints etc…
You’re probably looking at the same people with same weapons all the time.
There aren’t really that many leggies around, and espcially at this point that precursors are so expensive.

1+1 = potato

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Posted by: paleeshi.1924

paleeshi.1924

I just dislike that the legendaries can be sold and that they are not account bound. I really don’t see why it would be so wrong to be able to use Bifrost both on my mesmer and elementalist after the hard job getting it. And the fact that it can be bought and sold jsut bothers me since legendaries should be something special. It’s a hard work to acquire it, then why should someone just be able to buy it on TP?

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Posted by: Firegoth.6427

Firegoth.6427

I just dislike that the legendaries can be sold and that they are not account bound. I really don’t see why it would be so wrong to be able to use Bifrost both on my mesmer and elementalist after the hard job getting it. And the fact that it can be bought and sold jsut bothers me since legendaries should be something special. It’s a hard work to acquire it, then why should someone just be able to buy it on TP?

Would it make you feel better if they farmed the badges, karma and got world exploration 100%?

1+1 = potato

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Posted by: Wolfhammer.3140

Wolfhammer.3140

Looking at the huge list of requirements I’ll never get one unless I buy gold with real money..

SM – Gandarra

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Posted by: paleeshi.1924

paleeshi.1924

I just dislike that the legendaries can be sold and that they are not account bound. I really don’t see why it would be so wrong to be able to use Bifrost both on my mesmer and elementalist after the hard job getting it. And the fact that it can be bought and sold jsut bothers me since legendaries should be something special. It’s a hard work to acquire it, then why should someone just be able to buy it on TP?

Would it make you feel better if they farmed the badges, karma and got world exploration 100%?

well it’s more than fair. since getting legendary requires you to play several aspects of the game and is not droppable. and for those who actually buy the weapon, how many of those do you think have bought the weapon through “legal gold”, considering the sky high prices for a legendary?

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Posted by: Gregorius.1024

Gregorius.1024

Well did you guys really think that in an MMO with thousands of people playing everyday and the way legendaries are set up being pretty much just a gold sink, that you were gonna be a special and unique snowflake after 5 months into the release? You people that are so worried about others really need to just focus on your toon like Aza.2105 said.

I actually dont have a legendary. I am in the position to craft two with everything I need, but I am holding off for now to observe the market. Im not really good with that stuff tbh so I need some time to think about what I am going to do. The whole concept of legendary though, its kind of contradictory when they are common right?

Well no, this is where you use your own imagination. You’re supposed to be the ONLY commander of the pact, the ONLY hero of your race/order/etc. People need to learn to use their imagination and stop taking the game so literal. If it were meant to be taken literally, there would only be one of each legendary weapon in the game. In game, all the other players don’t really exist, at least, they’re not on your level

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Posted by: Gregorius.1024

Gregorius.1024

I’m not too crazy about any particular legendary skin… Especially when I could get multiple armor sets (for different characters) for the cost of a single legendary.

I’ve got a job. I can’t play all the time.

The fact that I log-in and see so many people with one just makes them less desirable for me.

Why would I want to put so much work into getting something that everyone else already has?

Besides… There’s going to be an expansion with new weapon and armor skins some time this year.

I think I’ll save up for those.

Says everyone else with your same sentiments. You get the skins you like because you like them, not because they’re common or rare. There are a ton of people thinking what you’re thinking and by next expansion all those people will be carrying the same things.

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Posted by: sostronk.8167

sostronk.8167

Well did you guys really think that in an MMO with thousands of people playing everyday and the way legendaries are set up being pretty much just a gold sink, that you were gonna be a special and unique snowflake after 5 months into the release? You people that are so worried about others really need to just focus on your toon like Aza.2105 said.

I actually dont have a legendary. I am in the position to craft two with everything I need, but I am holding off for now to observe the market. Im not really good with that stuff tbh so I need some time to think about what I am going to do. The whole concept of legendary though, its kind of contradictory when they are common right?

Well no, this is where you use your own imagination. You’re supposed to be the ONLY commander of the pact, the ONLY hero of your race/order/etc. People need to learn to use their imagination and stop taking the game so literal. If it were meant to be taken literally, there would only be one of each legendary weapon in the game. In game, all the other players don’t really exist, at least, they’re not on your level

Oh ok, so all those other legendarys I see players carrying around don’t exist because I am playing a single player game. I must be seeing things.

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Posted by: Leo Paul.1659

Leo Paul.1659

I know there isn’t too much The Minstrel out there for sure. So I’m happy with mine. About to craft my bolt in a month or so too. By then I can finally stick to wvw

Queen Of The Moors (Blackgate)
Deaths Fear [Fear] / The Hardcore Caravan [HC]
Forum Warrior: Black Belt in Ninja Edits

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Posted by: Imperatora.7654

Imperatora.7654

too easy to buy? for 3000g or more?

Dude if coming up with 3k is easy for you, then you need to share the love my friend.

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Posted by: Svarty.8019

Svarty.8019

I wonder if there is a limit to the number of legendaries, or whether we will indeed all be using legendaries eventually?

Nobody at Anet loves WvW like Grouch loved PvP. That’s what we need, a WvW Grouch, but taller.

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Posted by: paleeshi.1924

paleeshi.1924

I wonder if there is a limit to the number of legendaries, or whether we will indeed all be using legendaries eventually?

The thing that is limiting amount of legendaries at current stage is probably the amount of precursor. Most other things can easily be farmed or bought since they have a big stock. However precursors are pretty limited. I think only yesterday there was only 2 The Legends in trading post. But even at one time I’ve seen around 20-ish at once. If you not going to buy it or get it as a drop, the only way to get it is Mystic Forge but the gamble can be endless. So… unless they drastically increase the drop rate of precursor or give other way to acquire it, the legendaries will still be “rare”.

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Posted by: Sauzo.6821

Sauzo.6821

Well would all those people who are complaining there are too many legendaries be happier if ANet completely removed em from game and rewarded 1 person total in the game(including all servers) with 1 legendary each? Example, only 1 person in the whole game including the EU servers would have a Twilight and only 1 person would have a Sunrise etc etc. Cause honestly that’s what it’s sounding like you people are whining about.

Crafted: Meteorlogicus, Incinerator, Juggernaut, Sunrise, Bifrost, The Dreamer, Kudzu
Am I legendary yet!?

(edited by Sauzo.6821)

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Posted by: Surferboy.1649

Surferboy.1649

oh yeah, that would be fine. And the one person is chosen by a lottery, just like it is now

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Posted by: Sauzo.6821

Sauzo.6821

But then they would need to remove the legnedary tab on character select and also the achievement as well as retract their ads of making a legendary etc etc. And then what would that leave people to work for? Remember, games gotta have that dangling carrot or people will get bored and find something else to play after they have run the same dungeon for 1000 times on 5 alts….

Crafted: Meteorlogicus, Incinerator, Juggernaut, Sunrise, Bifrost, The Dreamer, Kudzu
Am I legendary yet!?

Too many legendarys

in Crafting

Posted by: Sauzo.6821

Sauzo.6821

And how come people are whining about seeing too many legendaries but i don’t hear any complaints about people seeing 600 people a day all wearing the same COF armor or TA armor or Arah armor? I mean COF armor is pretty much the standard issue gear for GW2. It’s like the flagship of armors.

Crafted: Meteorlogicus, Incinerator, Juggernaut, Sunrise, Bifrost, The Dreamer, Kudzu
Am I legendary yet!?

Too many legendarys

in Crafting

Posted by: evo.8640

evo.8640

To bluntly put it: if you’re going to kitten and moan something like this, chances are you’re better off on another planet.

I can’t even imagine the issues these people have in real life with what people own. Envy can be a horrible human trait in the hands of the lazy.