Guild Wars 2

laokoko.7403:

Ayrilana, read what you wrote first.

Unless I’m mistaken, or you just wrote it too quickly without thinking…

Prices could easily increase as a result making you no better off than you were before. This is also neglecting the impact this would have on wool, cotton, and linen scraps.

You also wrote prices “could”. I probably missed that. So you aren’t so sure yourself.

Not saying it won’t have an effect. I think you are pushing the idea too far.

Yeah. I purposely included “could” as there’s no way for us to 100% no for sure. I could very well be wrong and overestimating the number of players who are holding off on crafting ascended for the first time or for additional sets due to the costs.

Ayrilana.1396:

A decrease in the quantity in the quantity of silk needed would decrease the overall price at first. However, this is where you stop and you don’t look further like so many people. The people that held off on getting their ascended will now be enticed to start going for their ascended now. This pushes the demand for silk even higher without supply changing. This will cause prices to go back up. We saw a 50% increase in silk prices when the collections came out so it’s not far out of the realm of possibility that the same could happen in materials needed were cut.

Another aspect that you’re also missing is the impact that this would have on the other materials such as linen, cotton, and wool. Those would also increase as well driving up the complete cost of the ascended set.

There is no guarantee these fluctuations would be permanent though. Yes, you can conceivably say that due to the increase in demand, the prices will temporarily spike. But let’s say (in theory) your average player only ever wants one set of ascended armor. This may mean he will go for it now when it was too expensive for him before, but as soon as he has his set, he is done and no longer has an affect on demand.

Because ascended armor is not a consumable item, demand (all other things being equal) will steadily go down as people acquire their permanent set. All other things are not equal, of course – one of the effects on supply is player activity – but in theory, it is not something that will stay increased because of a single drop in cost.

Ayrilana.1396:

Sorry. I got distracted by the others but thank you for clarifying your intent of that post.

Anet stated that they wanted to give silk value. It had pretty much no use in the came. I believe they kept silk prices high because they felt that ascended armor was to be a long term goal.

I opinion on this is that the price of one material compared to another doesn’t matter.

I can buy that for a dollar. Now I am wondering how the total cost compares for each set. Reviewing the recipes, Tailor requires 36 Damask, Leatherworker 24, and Amorsmith 25. At a glance, it looks like Cloth beats the other two by a landslide, due to Damask.

Labjax.2465:

Ayrilana.1396:

Sorry. I got distracted by the others but thank you for clarifying your intent of that post.

Anet stated that they wanted to give silk value. It had pretty much no use in the came. I believe they kept silk prices high because they felt that ascended armor was to be a long term goal.

I opinion on this is that the price of one material compared to another doesn’t matter.

I can buy that for a dollar. Now I am wondering how the total cost compares for each set. Reviewing the recipes, Tailor requires 36 Damask, Leatherworker 24, and Amorsmith 25. At a glance, it looks like Cloth beats the other two by a landslide, due to Damask.

It was about an 80 gold difference between heavy and light a few weeks ago when I last ran the numbers.

Labjax.2465:

There is no guarantee these fluctuations would be permanent though. Yes, you can conceivably say that due to the increase in demand, the prices will temporarily spike. But let’s say (in theory) your average player only ever wants one set of ascended armor. This may mean he will go for it now when it was too expensive for him before, but as soon as he has his set, he is done and no longer has an affect on demand.

Because ascended armor is not a consumable item, demand (all other things being equal) will steadily go down as people acquire their permanent set. All other things are not equal, of course – one of the effects on supply is player activity – but in theory, it is not something that will stay increased because of a single drop in cost.

There are new players continuously starting up this game and they too will probably want ascended at one point. It’s like the job market where people come and go from it all the time. It’s not a static number consisting of the same people.

A few things have changed to skew the silk market. Back when silk was plentiful there were also major champ trains, farms such as Union Station, and bugged events such as Plinx farming and few people had their crafting to 500. One by one these were nerfed/fixed/ so the supply of silk going into the system dropped. While that was happening more and more people took their crafting to level 500 and started to make ascended armors. So now you have greater demand coupled with lower supply.

Ayrilana.1396:

It was about an 80 gold difference between heavy and light a few weeks ago when I last ran the numbers.

Yeesh. Well I know which profession I’m not going to bother with ascended on for a long long time.

Ayrilana.1396:

There are new players continuously starting up this game and they too will probably want ascended at one point. It’s like the job market where people come and go from it all the time. It’s not a static number consisting of the same people.

True and that adds even more complications to the theory of it. For example, someone new may not have the same perception of what’s “too costly” compared to someone who has been around through lots of inflation.

Plus there may be a gap in-between new players leveling and existing players having gear, during which demand could go down some.

I doubt things will change as, clearly, the player base is still able to afford the current state of Silk (and cloth) prices. From an economic perspective, things are fine.

From a player’s perspective though? That’s a different matter, as I do feel that the disparity can create frustration and resentment at the “grind” necessary to get Damask.

If I were to “fix” the situation, I’d do it by vastly increasing the supply of all cloth items, by way of the following:

1. Silk Weaving Thread is now reduced to 50 Bolts of Silk, to bring it in line with the other Ascended mats.

2. Cloth scraps (of all tiers) acquired from salvage is increased by 50%, rounded up. So if an armor piece previously salvaged into 1 – 3 scraps, it now drops 2 – 5 scraps.

3. There is a rare chance to acquire cloth scraps from harvesting plant nodes (at the same chance that gemstones are acquired from tree and ore nodes) of the appropriate tier.

All these changes should greatly increase cloth supply, past the point where there would be increased demand for Ascended armor. And even if it does not, the increased rate of acquisition should make it easier for an individual player to farm his own supply, thereby reducing the perception of grind/cost.

For the record, I’m slowly working on getting all the Damask I need for my Ascended armor too. I’m a long way off; I’ve got about 40 Damask at the moment, but I’ll need ~160 to fully outfit my 5 mains. (Hopefully as I complete Collections and get to higher levels in Fractals though, I’ll get more Ascended chest drops that will help cut down on these requirements.)

I don’t know the numbers but I think it’s safe to say that the current percentage of ascended light armor wearers is significantly lower than the amount of medium and heavy ascended armor wearers. Which is obviously caused by the huge difference in prices to craft the different types of ascended armor sets. It wouldn’t even surprise me if it causes people to play different classes and light armor is becoming more of an elitist class for the rich upper segment of hardcore players.

People had lots and lots of accumulated silk.

They made those changes to get rid of that.

But they didn’t go back to the reasonable costs after that. So now it has gone out of control.

The costs are to be adjusted again.

They should let us demote gossamer to silk. I always sigh if I get gossamer instead of silk.

Oh, like with globs of ectoplasm.

It’ll be interesting to be able to salvage higher tier materials to get lower tier. It’s always good as it evens the costs of those materials. If you can get T5 from T6 easier than T6 from T5, T6 is always more expensive.

It did wonders with Crystalline Dust.

They should definitely do that!

No please don’t bring down the price of silk, it will hurt the economy. Many players invested their time into farming it and messing with the price is going to kitten them off if this is changed.

Bringing down silk prices will not hurt the economy. It might hit a few players in the pocket book. Tough kittens.

I think DarkSpirit was referring to the people who got their Ascended armor early and go “I spent over 300g to get my Ascended armor, and now people can just get it for 50g?!”, not so much people who are making money from Silk.

To those players though, I would sympathise with their feelings, but it wouldn’t be the first time economic changes have made previously expensive stuff cheap, or previously cheap stuff expensive. The economy is always going to be in flux; you win some, you lose some.

I already crafted all armors i needed (3 light sets crafted 1 backpack and 2 heavy) spending insane amounts of gold.
Yet i approve this and i can t really understand how a game like GW2 is so slow to address problems like this that were already “monitored” and “recognized” many months ago.

Not to mention players anticipated this situation the same patch day.

If you fear players will be angry you can give a small gift (few gems or BL Keys or the mini llama or anything) of any sort to players who spent so much….

Zaxares.5419:

To those players though, I would sympathise with their feelings, but it wouldn’t be the first time economic changes have made previously expensive stuff cheap, or previously cheap stuff expensive. The economy is always going to be in flux; you win some, you lose some.

Yes it wouldn’t be the first time economic changes have made previously cheap stuff expensive, we can all deal with the current price of bolt. You win some, you lose some.

Difficult to find * difficult to find = difficult squared.

I am sooo… short on T2-T4 cloth mats.

Why, Anet, why? I have wood, leather, and metal coming out of my ears!

Please let me at least salvage by the level of the area I am in instead of my level.

Silk scraps trade for 3 silver, wool for 3 silver, cotton for 4 and linen for 5. Silk may end up being the highest cost component, but it’s not clear that silk is the bottleneck in supply. I can’t see a scenario in which reducing the quality of silk required for damask wouldn’t drive these prices right up. Personally I am always short on wool.

In my opinion, the most likely result of reducing the silk requirement is that silk prices would plummet to be almost worthless while wool cloth and linen would more than double in price leaving damask at around 10 gold. The slight reduction in price is down to the fact that at 10 silver a pop enough people start farming mid-level areas specifically for cloth to stop prices going much higher.

The question of the high price being a problem has come up. My 2 cents is that in isolation 15g for damask isn’t a problem, but when comparing it to Deldrimor steel ingots at 3.8 and Elonian leather at 2 it is a problem, because it is inequitable for those playing light classes.

Cormac.3871:

Silk scraps trade for 3 silver, wool for 3 silver, cotton for 4 and linen for 5. Silk may end up being the highest cost component, but it’s not clear that silk is the bottleneck in supply. I can’t see a scenario in which reducing the quality of silk required for damask wouldn’t drive these prices right up. Personally I am always short on wool.

In my opinion, the most likely result of reducing the silk requirement is that silk prices would plummet to be almost worthless while wool cloth and linen would more than double in price leaving damask at around 10 gold. The slight reduction in price is down to the fact that at 10 silver a pop enough people start farming mid-level areas specifically for cloth to stop prices going much higher.

The question of the high price being a problem has come up. My 2 cents is that in isolation 15g for damask isn’t a problem, but when comparing it to Deldrimor steel ingots at 3.8 and Elonian leather at 2 it is a problem, because it is inequitable for those playing light classes.

It might bother some people in terms of “making sense for professions,” but they could just adjust the number of each component needed, so that there isn’t such a huge disparity in number of Damask needed for Light compared to the others.

Labjax.2465:

It might bother some people in terms of “making sense for professions,” but they could just adjust the number of each component needed, so that there isn’t such a huge disparity in number of Damask needed for Light compared to the others.

Yes, I would actually support this suggestion.

Cormac.3871:

The question of the high price being a problem has come up. My 2 cents is that in isolation 15g for damask isn’t a problem, but when comparing it to Deldrimor steel ingots at 3.8 and Elonian leather at 2 it is a problem, because it is inequitable for those playing light classes.

Indeed. Damask may be a bit too high, but the other materials far too low – in no small part due to thick leather continuing to be a worthless material in a broken market, and the huge glut of mithril and elder wood that keeps the price from ever appreciating above a handful of copper per.

People only seem to complain about the stuff they want to buy being expensive not the stuff they (should) want to sell being too cheap, but both can be pretty big design problems.

Labjax.2465:

It might bother some people in terms of “making sense for professions,” but they could just adjust the number of each component needed, so that there isn’t such a huge disparity in number of Damask needed for Light compared to the others.

Huge disparity? Meh, not really – you are making cloth because it’s light armor, so… anyways, they should change the insignia to 1 of each type (damask, deldrimor, elonian) instead of 3 damask. That would significantly reduce the demand for damask and lower the overall cost. Would it be equal? No. Would it be closer? Yes. They could also reduce the number of damask needed in chest/legs to 3 from 4 – but that really isn’t necessary.

azzy.6485:

Huge disparity? Meh, not really – you are making cloth because it’s light armor, so… anyways, they should change the insignia to 1 of each type (damask, deldrimor, elonian) instead of 3 damask. That would significantly reduce the demand for damask and lower the overall cost. Would it be equal? No. Would it be closer? Yes. They could also reduce the number of damask needed in chest/legs to 3 from 4 – but that really isn’t necessary.

This is what I mean by disparity. See what this dude says:

It was about an 80 gold difference between heavy and light a few weeks ago when I last ran the numbers.

Your definition of “huge” may differ, but the numbers don’t lie.

Tomas.5029:

That’s not light armor exclusive. I’m crafting a heavy ascended armor set right now, and having to get 300 silk scraps with current prices every single day is just not fun.

OP refers to needing 36 Bolts of Damask in total for a full set of Light Armor. Heavy needs like 25 Bolts of Damask. The price difference at current prices is already over 180g.
And the higher need for Elonian Leather section for Medium/Heavy armor doesn’t come close to that, because the price is 17g vs 2g.

So yes, silk/cloth sucks to get. But heavy/medium ascended armor is just way easier to make, just because it needs less of Damask and less Leather/Deldrimor steel than Bolts. So you can also make it faster using cheaper mats.

DarkSpirit.7046:

Zaxares.5419:

To those players though, I would sympathise with their feelings, but it wouldn’t be the first time economic changes have made previously expensive stuff cheap, or previously cheap stuff expensive. The economy is always going to be in flux; you win some, you lose some.

Yes it wouldn’t be the first time economic changes have made previously cheap stuff expensive, we can all deal with the current price of bolt. You win some, you lose some.

That’s why I mentioned that in my original post. As I’ve said before, the economy is clearly able to handle the current Silk prices, so I doubt that things will change.

BUT… If there’s enough player disgruntlement over it, I wouldn’t rule out ANet making some holistic changes across the game to increase cloth supply. (It could be something as dramatic as increasing the amount of cloth scraps from salvage by 50 – 100%, or the ability to downgrade cloth from higher tiers to lower.)

the main problem is the cloth supply…

on an average dungeon run i get double mithril than cloth, that can’t be right, i mean, it’s ok that every f****** armor in the game uses cloth, but, when salvage, the only armor that drops cloth is light, hell no, i would make it so if you salvage light, you get double cloth than salvaging heavy or medium, and make heavy and medium salvage drop cloth as well as ore/hide, i mean, the armor has to have some cloth on it, right?

aside from that, the price for bolt of damask is outrageous, compared to the other 3 (steel, leather and wood).
I understand why wood and leather are cheaper, only used on armor/weapons,
and why damask is so expensive (used on all armor heavy, medium and light)… it should be 3 times more expensive than leather, but it is like 6 times more expensive, something is not right…
cloth is too rare and the demand is too high, compared to ores, wood and leather… it has to be changed

Zaxares.5419:

BUT… If there’s enough player disgruntlement over it, I wouldn’t rule out ANet making some holistic changes across the game to increase cloth supply. (It could be something as dramatic as increasing the amount of cloth scraps from salvage by 50 – 100%, or the ability to downgrade cloth from higher tiers to lower.)

The problem is that ANet has not communicated about it for almost a year. The only thing that has been communicated regarding this subject was done by John Smith who stated that “the overcorrection of silk was intended”. Currently a Bolt of Silk is at 10 silver. Way higher than any other crafting material.

It costs 132 gold to craft an Ascended Light Armor Chest (77 gold for Silk Scraps), it costs 84 gold to cast a similar Ascended Heavy Armor Chest (38 gold for Silk Scraps). That’s a difference of 48 gold. That means someone who wants to make a light armor chest has to run, give or take, 40 more dungeons to get the same set piece.

Consider a player that has outfitted multiple light armor characters in Ascended gear….how do they react to this “change” you propose?

Brother Grimm.5176:

Consider a player that has outfitted multiple light armor characters in Ascended gear….how do they react to this “change” you propose?

I paid the full price for this game at launch. Now the game is quite cheaper but I do not expect to get some kind of discount. I think the same should apply to those that already have outfitted their character with light ascended armor. It would not be the first time that changes in the game caused certain prices of items to either drop or rise.

The design philosophy behind the Bolt of Damask and ascended light armor were not thought out perfectly. This is why the current crafting prices for cloths are out of hand. I strongly feel that steps need to be taken in order to restore that balance. Because in the end balance is one of the core focuses of ANet to support this game, next to introducing new content, to keeping customers satisfied.

Noah.4756:

Brother Grimm.5176:

Consider a player that has outfitted multiple light armor characters in Ascended gear….how do they react to this “change” you propose?

I paid the full price for this game at launch. Now the game is quite cheaper but I do not expect to get some kind of discount. I think the same should apply to those that already have outfitted their character with light ascended armor. It would not be the first time that changes in the game caused certain prices of items to either drop or rise.

The design philosophy behind the Bolt of Damask and ascended light armor were not thought out perfectly. This is why the current crafting prices for cloths are out of hand. I strongly feel that steps need to be taken in order to restore that balance. Because in the end balance is one of the core focuses of ANet to support this game, next to introducing new content, to keeping customers satisfied.

Right, but do you want the price of heavy armor to increase to same price of light armor.

Or do you want light armor price to decrease to price of heavy armor.

Or they can meet in the middle.

That’s a good question. A couple of other daily ascended materials are currently way too easy to acquire. Especially the Elder Wood Log price is making a huge dive in the last month due to people farming Foxfire Clusters. But I think it would be more wise if ANet did something about the statues in Orr surrounded by many trees.

I wouldn’t mind seeing some sort of balance for the ascended armor throughout all weight classes though. Anyway, we can make all kind of suggestions here but in the end it’s up to ANet and they are keeping a low profile for now. Personally, I prefer to see more short term changes to imbalances in the economy instead of the way things are now.

Leather won’t go to 3 silver as it’s only used for medium armor. And a few random recipes.

ya I agree with the guy. Tailoring cost is way too expensive.

Hopefully Anet balance out by reducing Tailor cost instead of making the other profession more expensive to match tailor.