Blame Evon for RNG and not for ALL the good?

Blame Evon for RNG and not for ALL the good?

in Cutthroat Politics

Posted by: Lokheit.7943

Lokheit.7943

The most popular argument against poor Evon is that “he gives us RNG boxes, so vote against him as punishment for RNG!”…

But people saying that are forgetting ALL the good things he’s doing! If we’re going to blame him as the NPC incarnation of what the devs are doing with the echonomics of the game, then blame him for ALL THINGS INCLUDING EVERYTHING GOOD related to the echonomics, not just for the RNGs because you’re mad at them and can’t think about everything else in your seek for punishment.

Remember the days in Spamadan in GW1 trying to sell something for hours until you managed to find someone interested but not at your price? Remember all that lost time? (for those who didn’t play GW1 or similar games, it was a huge lot of time if you wanted a right price).

I’m glad of the new BLT Company trading system that makes life super easy and you can find literally anything you need, and I was an EXPERT trader that got a lot of benefit from the old system in GW1. I didn’t farm, I commerced, bought and sold, bought and sold and got good money out of that (I managed to get some things completly free by buying and selling them multiple times until I covered the cost with benefits), talking to players and convincing them with good words that my prices were the right ones (note: I never tried to scam, I would only deal what the other player had personally agree on and I always whispered players back after realizing they accidentally payed more than what we talked to return them their money or cancelled trades if I saw them offering more than what we talked).

I know because of how much I traded that most of you would have much less gold by now. People like me would DESTROY you in commerce in the old system (so you can thank Evon for keeping us from tearing your pockets) and you would spend hours and hours trying to sell your stuff (and time = money, lots of money when you think about all the time spent in Kamadan, start thanking Evon too for all that time you’ve saved thanks to his commerce system), probably selling most to a merchant when all your bank slots are filled and you can’t sell anything. That last part is what makes the system good too for hunters like me and other players that got benefit from the old system, as it was time consuming and now you can try to get your offer and put your item there (recently I got 10gold for a Sentinel insignia I placed during F&F for example) and just wait, but you can access everything and you can quickly sell all the small stuff whenever you want.

Trading is way easier and player echonomy way more stable thanks to our friend Evon Gnashblade (and the developers that he represents).

And what about all those cool items in the Gem Store that you see all the time? They’re Evon’s fault too and I’m not seeing anyone saying “Evon sold the unlimited tools, the instruments and all those skins… vote Kiel so we can stop him!!”.

If you people want to vote against Evon BECAUSE you think of him as the NPC incarnation of echonomics in this game, then get your facts right and start thanking him (and as he’s the NPC incarnation, in the process thank all those Devs putting hard work in the commerce system and Gem Store items).

He’s not ONLY RNG boxes, he’s all that stuff that is making your life easy.

I’m going to copy and paste this thread link to anyone saying “if you vote Evon you will support RNG, vote Kiel instead” as it’s getting too common and it’s insulting for all the good things related to commerce in this game.

#voteEvonGnashblade

(edited by Lokheit.7943)

Blame Evon for RNG and not for ALL the good?

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Posted by: SynfulChaot.3169

SynfulChaot.3169

He’s not ONLY RNG boxes, he’s all that stuff that is making your life easy.

Oh. And the 15% cut to your sales. And the inability to pull sales and get any of your deposit back. And the inability to sell directly to others in a secured fashion.

Need I go on?

Yes, the TP is better than having nowhere to officially trade. But the fact that we are all funneled there and have no alternatives (direct trading, for example) bothers many. As does the gem-gold ratio, which is only climbing higher and higher. Further and further away from standard players ability to actually use it.

Yes, the TP is nice. No, the economy is not.

Evon is the in-game embodiment of the economy. A vote for him is a vote that we have faith in the economy. Many of us have lost that faith. A long time ago.

Tarnished Coast – Wayfarer’s Accord [Way]
Main: Caeimhe – Sylvari Ranger
Alts: Charr Guardian, Asura Elementalist, Human Thief, Norn Necromancer

Blame Evon for RNG and not for ALL the good?

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Posted by: Lokheit.7943

Lokheit.7943

He’s not ONLY RNG boxes, he’s all that stuff that is making your life easy.

Oh. And the 15% cut to your sales. And the inability to pull sales and get any of your deposit back. And the inability to sell directly to others in a secured fashion.

Need I go on?

Yes, the TP is better than having nowhere to officially trade. But the fact that we are all funneled there and have no alternatives (direct trading, for example) bothers many. As does the gem-gold ratio, which is only climbing higher and higher. Further and further away from standard players ability to actually use it.

Yes, the TP is nice. No, the economy is not.

Evon is the in-game embodiment of the economy. A vote for him is a vote that we have faith in the economy. Many of us have lost that faith. A long time ago.

Trust me, that fee (and it’s 10%) is NOTHING compared to the money you would be losing in the old system. I know it because I made a lot of money trading in GW1 and I know how much it takes. Being able to find what you want and either sell or buy it with a price that is marked by everyone and not by trends manipulated by players (as individual players are just a part of the total) saves you WAY more than that small fee. For starters you would be selling a lot of your stuff to regular merchants.

Blame Evon for RNG and not for ALL the good?

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Posted by: SynfulChaot.3169

SynfulChaot.3169

Trust me, that fee (and it’s 10%) is NOTHING compared to the money you would be losing in the old system. I know it because I made a lot of money trading in GW1 and I know how much it takes. Being able to find what you want and either sell or buy it with a price that is marked by everyone and not by trends manipulated by players (as individual players are just a part of the total) saves you WAY more than that small fee. For starters you would be selling a lot of your stuff to regular merchants.

I played GW1, you know.

Yes, the TP is nice as you can find what you’re looking for there. But don’t fool yourself into thinking it is not manipulated by players. The large number of speculators proves that. Speculation is manipulation. And no. It loses you money. Anything listed low will get grabbed by the market flippers so people who just want to buy pay more than they would have before. Not less.

Tarnished Coast – Wayfarer’s Accord [Way]
Main: Caeimhe – Sylvari Ranger
Alts: Charr Guardian, Asura Elementalist, Human Thief, Norn Necromancer

Blame Evon for RNG and not for ALL the good?

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Posted by: Ursan.7846

Ursan.7846

Oh. And the 15% cut to your sales. And the inability to pull sales and get any of your deposit back. And the inability to sell directly to others in a secured fashion.

Need I go on?

Yes, the TP is better than having nowhere to officially trade. But the fact that we are all funneled there and have no alternatives (direct trading, for example) bothers many. As does the gem-gold ratio, which is only climbing higher and higher. Further and further away from standard players ability to actually use it.

Yes, the TP is nice. No, the economy is not.

Evon is the in-game embodiment of the economy. A vote for him is a vote that we have faith in the economy. Many of us have lost that faith. A long time ago.

The economy is working as intended.

You complain about the rising gem/gold ratio, and yet at the same time complain about one of the best mechanisms to keep it in check (a percentage-based gold sink.)

I’m going to assume you know how the Gem/Gold ratio works, but since Anet has implemented a mechanism in which a movement of the ratio in one direction encourages activity which moves the ratio in the opposite direction, it will reach an equilibrium dictated by the entire playerbase.

Blame Evon for RNG and not for ALL the good?

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Posted by: SynfulChaot.3169

SynfulChaot.3169

The economy is working as intended.

You complain about the rising gem/gold ratio, and yet at the same time complain about one of the best mechanisms to keep it in check (a percentage-based gold sink.)

I’m going to assume you know how the Gem/Gold ratio works, but since Anet has implemented a mechanism in which a movement of the ratio in one direction encourages activity which moves the ratio in the opposite direction, it will reach an equilibrium dictated by the entire playerbase.

Working as they intended, yes. For them and against the playerbase.

I know how the system works. The problem is that it has only ever risen. As they keep putting interesting things in the gem store, the demand will only keep rising for gems.

Many players can’t afford to spend real cash on gems so more gold gets traded for gems than vice-versa. As a result the ratio is in runaway inflation. Those that don’t hardcore farm CoF P1 or engage in the highly unethical (IMHO) practice of market flipping cannot afford gems at all.

That is not reaching an equilibrium. That is reaching a point where the players says ‘kitten it’ and leave due to the economy being that badly broken.

Tarnished Coast – Wayfarer’s Accord [Way]
Main: Caeimhe – Sylvari Ranger
Alts: Charr Guardian, Asura Elementalist, Human Thief, Norn Necromancer

Blame Evon for RNG and not for ALL the good?

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Posted by: Onshidesigns.1069

Onshidesigns.1069

It’s not blaming the NPC! It’s giving Anet/Ncsoft a message. That players do not approve of gem store RNG for skins.

Blame Evon for RNG and not for ALL the good?

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Posted by: Ursan.7846

Ursan.7846

I know how the system works. The problem is that it has only ever risen. As they keep putting interesting things in the gem store, the demand will only keep rising for gems.

This is false.

http://www.gw2spidy.com/gem

If you look at the Gem Exchanges since the beginning of May, the ratio has remained remarkably stable. And between the beginning of May and now, many interesting things have been introduced. And yet, ratios have remained quite stable. Most likely we’re reaching an equilibrium, or a value very close to it.

And again, as I’ve explained, the mechanism in which an increase in Gold/Gem ratio encourages activity which will induce change in the other direction (Players exchange Gem -> Gold) means that an continuous increase is simply impossible.

Many players can’t afford to spend real cash on gems so more gold gets traded for gems than vice-versa. As a result the ratio is in runaway inflation. Those that don’t hardcore farm CoF P1 or engage in the highly unethical (IMHO) practice of market flipping cannot afford gems at all.

You’re making several assumptions here.

1. That many players can’t afford to spend real cash on gems. You don’t know this. In fact, I imagine the opposite is true. How do you explain the huge success of the gem store?
2. That people that don’t farm CoF P1/market flipping cannot afford gems. You also don’t know this, and this is a very generalized statement which is very untrue for many individuals (me, for example.)

As your assumptions are based off on very shaky (non-existent) evidence, your point remains unconvincing.

That is not reaching an equilibrium. That is reaching a point where the players says ‘kitten it’ and leave due to the economy being that badly broken.

An economy, by definition, is an fluid exchange of goods. Basically, it’s the production, distribution, and consumption of goods. The flow of goods is what makes for a healthy economy. When that stops, the economy is not healthy because people aren’t producing/selling/buying/consuming goods.

And in GW2, there are billions of items being produced/sold/consumed. From the amount of kites people were playing around with, I can safely assume that plenty of gems get bought/sold as well. There is really no indication that the player base as a whole views these gem prices to be “high” because from all indications (NCSoft earning reports, the sheer amount of people sporting infinite gathering tools/quaggan backpacks/kites, etc.), gems are still very much being sold/bought.

Just because in your personal opinion, gem prices are seemingly “high” does not make the GW2 economy “broken.” Far from it.

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Posted by: SynfulChaot.3169

SynfulChaot.3169

It’s not blaming the NPC! It’s giving Anet/Ncsoft a message. That players do not approve of gem store RNG for skins.

If the skins were also all available directly for gems, then this backlash against Evon would be much less. I don’t like gambling my real money, in-game or out. If I like something, I want to buy it. Not buy a minuscule chance at it. Sell us the good stuff directly, Evon!

Tarnished Coast – Wayfarer’s Accord [Way]
Main: Caeimhe – Sylvari Ranger
Alts: Charr Guardian, Asura Elementalist, Human Thief, Norn Necromancer

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Posted by: SynfulChaot.3169

SynfulChaot.3169

You’re making several assumptions here.

1. That many players can’t afford to spend real cash on gems. You don’t know this. In fact, I imagine the opposite is true. How do you explain the huge success of the gem store?

I said many. Not all. A smaller portion of players freely spending real cash is enough to make the gem store good. And there are plenty of good priced things there as well. Just not the kittening RNG boxes!

2. That people that don’t farm CoF P1/market flipping cannot afford gems. You also don’t know this, and this is a very generalized statement which is very untrue for many individuals (me, for example.)

My experience and those I speak with say otherwise. All people I personally know that exchange gold for gems are eternally broke and can’t afford practically anything in game due to the exchange rage. I, myself, am about to start up the CoF grind as I need money and nothing else can provide it at a rate that keeps up with the economic inflation.

But we are arguing experience vs experience here, so no accord can be met on this particular point.

That is not reaching an equilibrium. That is reaching a point where the players says ‘kitten it’ and leave due to the economy being that badly broken.

An economy, by definition, is an fluid exchange of goods. Basically, it’s the production, distribution, and consumption of goods. The flow of goods is what makes for a healthy economy. When that stops, the economy is not healthy because people aren’t producing/selling/buying/consuming goods.

And in GW2, there are billions of items being produced/sold/consumed. From the amount of kites people were playing around with, I can safely assume that plenty of gems get bought/sold as well. There is really no indication that the player base as a whole views these gem prices to be “high” because from all indications (NCSoft earning reports, the sheer amount of people sporting infinite gathering tools/quaggan backpacks/kites, etc.), gems are still very much being sold/bought.

Just because in your personal opinion, gem prices are seemingly “high” does not make the GW2 economy “broken.” Far from it.

That isn’t the only reason the economy is broken. It is just one aspect. The full list would be several pages long. And I’m not going there as John Smith, the resident ANet economist, has too many fanboys/fangirls that will jump in here telling me it’s fine. It’s not.

And the kites? Did you miss the fact that everyone who bought any gems got a kite? I’ll tell you this. I only bought gems as Transmutation Crystals, an essential for any RPer, were on sale and I needed them for my chara. And those Transmutation Crystals are gem store only.

Tarnished Coast – Wayfarer’s Accord [Way]
Main: Caeimhe – Sylvari Ranger
Alts: Charr Guardian, Asura Elementalist, Human Thief, Norn Necromancer

Blame Evon for RNG and not for ALL the good?

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Posted by: Ursan.7846

Ursan.7846

I said many. Not all. A smaller portion of players freely spending real cash is enough to make the gem store good.

Millions of players spend subscription fees to play WoW. Is it seriously that unfathomable that a significant, not small, portion of players, spend real money?

My experience and those I speak with say otherwise. All people I personally know that exchange gold for gems are eternally broke and can’t afford practically anything in game due to the exchange rage. I, myself, am about to start up the CoF grind as I need money and nothing else can provide it at a rate that keeps up with the economic inflation.

I’m just going to stick with the facts. Looking at the Gem/Gold ratio, it has remained remarkably stable the last 3 months. Which means that people are purchasing/selling gems at about the same rates.

And I’m going to repeat this because you seemingly refuse to acknowledge my statement, but the fact that any change in the ratio towards one direction encourages activity which affects the ratio in the other direction, by definition, will mean that an equilibrium will be reached eventually and that continuous inflation is impossible.

That isn’t the only reason the economy is broken. It is just one aspect. The full list would be several pages long. And I’m not going there as John Smith, the resident ANet economist, has too many fanboys/fangirls that will jump in here telling me it’s fine. It’s not.

There are several indicators commonly used to determine health of an economy.

Inflation, stability of exchange rates, efficiency of trade, consumption/production of goods, employment, growth, stability of commodity good prices, etc.

From every indicator, GW2’s economy is very healthy. The “exchange rate” has been very stable for 3 month. Trade is very efficient. Billions of items are consumed/produced. Players all are capable of earning some money to cover their essential (no content gating by expensive gear. And no, exotics are not expensive.)

I’m sure your personal definition of a “broken” economy is “I personally find these items to be overpriced.” That’s fine, but by most standard widely-accepted definitions of economic health, you’ll have a hard time convincing most people that the economy is “broken.”

And the kites? Did you miss the fact that everyone who bought any gems got a kite? I’ll tell you this. I only bought gems as Transmutation Crystals, an essential for any RPer, were on sale and I needed them for my chara. And those Transmutation Crystals are gem store only.

?

I don’t understand this point. You’re agreeing with me that a significant amount of people do buy gems with real-money then?

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Posted by: SynfulChaot.3169

SynfulChaot.3169

I said many. Not all. A smaller portion of players freely spending real cash is enough to make the gem store good.

Millions of players spend subscription fees to play WoW. Is it seriously that unfathomable that a significant, not small, portion of players, spend real money?

I still hold that it is a minority. And until there are numbers proving otherwise, this is moot.

My experience and those I speak with say otherwise. All people I personally know that exchange gold for gems are eternally broke and can’t afford practically anything in game due to the exchange rage. I, myself, am about to start up the CoF grind as I need money and nothing else can provide it at a rate that keeps up with the economic inflation.

I’m just going to stick with the facts. Looking at the Gem/Gold ratio, it has remained remarkably stable the last 3 months. Which means that people are purchasing/selling gems at about the same rates.

And I’m going to repeat this because you seemingly refuse to acknowledge my statement, but the fact that any change in the ratio towards one direction encourages activity which affects the ratio in the other direction, by definition, will mean that an equilibrium will be reached eventually and that continuous inflation is impossible.

The overall trend is still upwards. Not at the rate that it was, but the trending is still there. Just at a much reduced rate.

Yes, equilibrium will eventually be reached. But will it reach that equilibrium at a rate that is beneficial to players not wishing to sink real money in? I doubt it.

That isn’t the only reason the economy is broken. It is just one aspect. The full list would be several pages long. And I’m not going there as John Smith, the resident ANet economist, has too many fanboys/fangirls that will jump in here telling me it’s fine. It’s not.

There are several indicators commonly used to determine health of an economy.

Inflation, stability of exchange rates, efficiency of trade, consumption/production of goods, employment, growth, stability of commodity good prices, etc.

From every indicator, GW2’s economy is very healthy. The “exchange rate” has been very stable for 3 month. Trade is very efficient. Billions of items are consumed/produced. Players all are capable of earning some money to cover their essential (no content gating by expensive gear. And no, exotics are not expensive.)

I’m sure your personal definition of a “broken” economy is “I personally find these items to be overpriced.” That’s fine, but by most standard definitions of economic health, you’ll have a hard time convincing most people that the economy is “broken.”

Some things are decently priced, yes. Some are openly not due to low drop rates and high numbers used for many, many in-demand items. Charged Cores/Lodestones and precursors, for example. Just because some things in an economy are decently healthy does not mean the entire economy is.

And yes, all players are capable of earning money to cover their expenses. But if you want anything more than the essentials, be ready to farm CoF, abuse the Trading Post, or spend real money as that is the only way you will be able to afford that.

And the kites? Did you miss the fact that everyone who bought any gems got a kite? I’ll tell you this. I only bought gems as Transmutation Crystals, an essential for any RPer, were on sale and I needed them for my chara. And those Transmutation Crystals are gem store only.

I don’t understand this point. You’re agreeing with me that a significant amount of people do buy gems with real-money then?

Because they are forced to to get the items that are gem store gated. Because it is just not economical to spend in-game money. Being forced to spend real money on a game as that is more economical than getting it in game does not mean that it is well designed. It means that it is poorly designed.

Tarnished Coast – Wayfarer’s Accord [Way]
Main: Caeimhe – Sylvari Ranger
Alts: Charr Guardian, Asura Elementalist, Human Thief, Norn Necromancer

Blame Evon for RNG and not for ALL the good?

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Posted by: Shiren.9532

Shiren.9532

Oh god. As someone who was around in Tyria 250 years ago, trading before the Black Lion Trading Post was a huge pain in the kitten . When I think about it, a 15% tax is nothing considering I don’t have to stand around in Spamadan trying to sell my req 14 15^50 gold hornbow. I can’t imagine that now, especially considering Spamadan is probably crawling with undead (or crystal dragon minions).

Blame Evon for RNG and not for ALL the good?

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Posted by: SynfulChaot.3169

SynfulChaot.3169

Oh god. As someone who was around in Tyria 250 years ago, trading before the Black Lion Trading Post was a huge pain in the kitten . When I think about it, a 15% tax is nothing considering I don’t have to stand around in Spamadan trying to sell my req 14 15^50 gold hornbow. I can’t imagine that now, especially considering Spamadan is probably crawling with undead (or crystal dragon minions).

The trading was. Very much a pain.

But we cannot just attach the good that it has brought to Evon and not the bad as well. As he represents the economy in game, he represents all of the economy. The good, like being able to have a working trading post. And the bad, like RNG boxes and a lack of direct trading options.

Tarnished Coast – Wayfarer’s Accord [Way]
Main: Caeimhe – Sylvari Ranger
Alts: Charr Guardian, Asura Elementalist, Human Thief, Norn Necromancer

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Posted by: Ursan.7846

Ursan.7846

I still hold that it is a minority. And until there are numbers proving otherwise, this is moot.

You’re the prosecutor. You’re the one accusing GW2’s economy as broken. The burden of proof falls on you. And since your evidence amount to nothing but speculation and anecdotal evidence, your case is very weak.

The overall trend is still upwards. Not at the rate that it was, but the trending is still there. Just at a much reduced rate.

Yes, equilibrium will eventually be reached. But will it reach that equilibrium at a rate that is beneficial to players not wishing to sink real money in? I doubt it.

Do you mean overall trend since the game launch? Then yes, it will be upwards, and it will be always be upwards due to the fact there was no gold in the game during launch. This is a pointless statement to make.

If you mean the trend the past 3 months, the Gold/Gem exchange was at 3G6S ~ 3G26S on May1st. On June 27th, it ranges from 3G14S ~ 3G28S. Are you seriously classifying this as a significant “upward trend?”

Also, the Gem ratio should never be “beneficial” to players not willing to spend real money. More on that later…

Some things are decently priced, yes. Some are openly not due to low drop rates and high numbers used for many, many in-demand items. Charged Cores/Lodestones and precursors, for example. Just because some things in an economy are decently healthy does not mean the entire economy is.

You keep on using your personal perspective on what is “broken,” what is “expensive,” etc. to classify this economy as broken. You take your view of the economy and are applying it onto the player base as a whole. Just because certain luxury goods are expensive, does not mean the economy is broken by the definitions of the economy which I posted previously.

What you’re doing is using your own personal metrics in order to judge an economy. You can do that, sure, but you’re not going to convince the majority of the economic community with those metrics.

And yes, all players are capable of earning money to cover their expenses.

Right.

But if you want anything more than the essentials, be ready to farm CoF, abuse the Trading Post, or spend real money as that is the only way you will be able to afford that.

What am I expected to reply to this hyperbole? I mean, seriously. What do you want me to reply to a statement that is obviously untrue.

Because they are forced to to get the items that are gem store gated. Because it is just not economical to spend in-game money. Being forced to spend real money on a game as that is more economical than getting it in game does not mean that it is well designed. It means that it is poorly designed.

This is an incredibly selfish way of looking at the situation.

1. Time spent in the real-world must be more valuable than time spent in-game. Players pay for convenience, but if buying was no more convenient than playing the game, players will not have a reason to buy gems with real money. Hence it will never be more “economical” to spend in-game money compared to real-life cash. What you’re suggesting is a terrible business model. Expecting it to is to be unrealistic.

2. You’re not being “forced” to buy things. You’re making yourself want to buy these, because Anet produces things people want to buy. Again, they have to produce goods attractive to their customers so that they will sell. This is good business. The balance lies in making these goods a “luxury.” And they succeed that, since gear stats required for exploration of all content do not exist in the Gem Store and can be only obtained through the game. You’re being, again, unrealistic if you expect them to cater to your own opinion of what “necessary” is.

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Posted by: SynfulChaot.3169

SynfulChaot.3169

I still hold that it is a minority. And until there are numbers proving otherwise, this is moot.

You’re the prosecutor. You’re the one accusing GW2’s economy as broken. The burden of proof falls on you. And since your evidence amount to nothing but speculation and anecdotal evidence, your case is very weak.

My evidence has as much weight as yours. Neither is backed by hard verifiable numbers. Both arguments are as weak as each other.

The overall trend is still upwards. Not at the rate that it was, but the trending is still there. Just at a much reduced rate.

Yes, equilibrium will eventually be reached. But will it reach that equilibrium at a rate that is beneficial to players not wishing to sink real money in? I doubt it.

Do you mean overall trend since the game launch? Then yes, it will be upwards, and it will be always be upwards due to the fact there was no gold in the game during launch. This is a pointless statement to make.

If you mean the trend the past 3 months, the Gold/Gem exchange was at 3G6S ~ 3G26S on May1st. On June 27th, it ranges from 3G14S ~ 3G28S. Are you seriously classifying this as a significant “upward trend?”

Also, the Gem ratio should never be “beneficial” to players not willing to spend real money. More on that later…

What is the point of a system that is not designed at all to benefit the players? I understand it benefiting ANet. They do need to make money after all. But if the rate is so high as to preclude most from engaging in it, then what is the point of even having such a system?

Some things are decently priced, yes. Some are openly not due to low drop rates and high numbers used for many, many in-demand items. Charged Cores/Lodestones and precursors, for example. Just because some things in an economy are decently healthy does not mean the entire economy is.

You keep on using your personal perspective on what is “broken,” what is “expensive,” etc. to classify this economy as broken. You take your view of the economy and are applying it onto the player base as a whole. Just because certain luxury goods are expensive, does not mean the economy is broken by the definitions of the economy which I posted previously.

What you’re doing is using your own personal metrics in order to judge an economy. You can do that, sure, but you’re not going to convince the majority of the economic community with those metrics.

The ‘economic community’ and the people that support each and every misstep are the reason that the economy is broken as it is.

As I see it, most of that ‘economic community’ are the ones speculating and flipping on the TP and siphoning money away from players that need it. And those are the actions that are destroying the economy.

But if you want anything more than the essentials, be ready to farm CoF, abuse the Trading Post, or spend real money as that is the only way you will be able to afford that.

What am I expected to reply to this hyperbole? I mean, seriously. What do you want me to reply to a statement that is obviously untrue.

Argue as you wish. If you don’t respond, then I will take that that you cannot respond.

Tarnished Coast – Wayfarer’s Accord [Way]
Main: Caeimhe – Sylvari Ranger
Alts: Charr Guardian, Asura Elementalist, Human Thief, Norn Necromancer

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Posted by: SynfulChaot.3169

SynfulChaot.3169

Because they are forced to to get the items that are gem store gated. Because it is just not economical to spend in-game money. Being forced to spend real money on a game as that is more economical than getting it in game does not mean that it is well designed. It means that it is poorly designed.

This is an incredibly selfish way of looking at the situation.

1. Time spent in the real-world must be more valuable than time spent in-game. Players pay for convenience, but if buying was no more convenient than playing the game, players will not have a reason to buy gems with real money. Hence it will never be more “economical” to spend in-game money compared to real-life cash. What you’re suggesting is a terrible business model. Expecting it to is to be unrealistic.

I play a game to have fun. If I need to spend 10 hours in game to get what would take me 2 out of game for the same reward, I will go for the lesser time expenditure. Grinding for money is not fun.

2. You’re not being “forced” to buy things. You’re making yourself want to buy these, because Anet produces things people want to buy. Again, they have to produce goods attractive to their customers so that they will sell. This is good business. The balance lies in making these goods a “luxury.” And they succeed that, since gear stats required for exploration of all content do not exist in the Gem Store and can be only obtained through the game. You’re being, again, unrealistic if you expect them to cater to your own opinion of what “necessary” is.

If I want those items, then yes, I am ‘forced’. Yes, I can always choose not to get the items. Just as you can choose not to get what you want to in game.

Luxury goods, I can understand. Many of the prices for them I can understand as well. Some, however, are just too highly priced. Not all, mind you. Just some. Thus why I pointed out Charged Lodestones and precursors.

Tarnished Coast – Wayfarer’s Accord [Way]
Main: Caeimhe – Sylvari Ranger
Alts: Charr Guardian, Asura Elementalist, Human Thief, Norn Necromancer

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Posted by: Shiren.9532

Shiren.9532

Oh god. As someone who was around in Tyria 250 years ago, trading before the Black Lion Trading Post was a huge pain in the kitten . When I think about it, a 15% tax is nothing considering I don’t have to stand around in Spamadan trying to sell my req 14 15^50 gold hornbow. I can’t imagine that now, especially considering Spamadan is probably crawling with undead (or crystal dragon minions).

The trading was. Very much a pain.

But we cannot just attach the good that it has brought to Evon and not the bad as well. As he represents the economy in game, he represents all of the economy. The good, like being able to have a working trading post. And the bad, like RNG boxes and a lack of direct trading options.

Then you also have to give him credit for every Living Story update… and most content updates since launch, seeing as it’s his Gem Store which is funding the magical beings that make things happen in Tyria. Without the gem store (as much as I hate RNG boxes – even the ones that drop in game, it’s not specific to the gem store) it’s the gem sales which fund the ongoing development of GW2.

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Posted by: SynfulChaot.3169

SynfulChaot.3169

But we cannot just attach the good that it has brought to Evon and not the bad as well. As he represents the economy in game, he represents all of the economy. The good, like being able to have a working trading post. And the bad, like RNG boxes and a lack of direct trading options.

Then you also have to give him credit for every Living Story update… and most content updates since launch, seeing as it’s his Gem Store which is funding the magical beings that make things happen in Tyria. Without the gem store (as much as I hate RNG boxes – even the ones that drop in game, it’s not specific to the gem store) it’s the gem sales which fund the ongoing development of GW2.

Yes. It is. Gem sales alone are not bad. Just the RNG boxes. If they put those same items locked behind a pay lottery directly into the store, even if at higher prices, the players would be a lot happier. And maybe have them directly purchasable and in RNG boxes. That way you can directly buy if you want, or gamble for a potential savings of money.

Tarnished Coast – Wayfarer’s Accord [Way]
Main: Caeimhe – Sylvari Ranger
Alts: Charr Guardian, Asura Elementalist, Human Thief, Norn Necromancer

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Posted by: Ursan.7846

Ursan.7846

My evidence has as much weight as yours. Neither is backed by hard verifiable numbers. Both arguments are as weak as each other.

First, you seem to not comprehend the concept of “proof of burden.” It’s on you, since you brought the topic up. Please try not to pass it on me, because that is a logical fallacy.

Second, anecdotal evidence is useful for me because I am contradicting your blanket statements. You make blanket statements like “If you need anything non-essential, you must farm CoF.” In this case, one contradicting anecdotal evidence is enough to disprove your blanket statement. This is logic. (Assume all A is B. But there is one A that is C. Hence assumption is wrong by contradiction.)

Third, I have also cited gw2spidy many many times, and it disproves your statements that “Gem ratios are continuously rising.” I have also explained to you (not really, but I think we assume we both understand it) the factual mechanics of how the exchange works, which disproves your original statement that the ratio will continuously rise.

Whether a majority/minority of players purchase gems or not is really a moot point when it comes to discussing the health of the economy. Gems are, after all, luxury items. More on that later…

What is the point of a system that is not designed at all to benefit the players? I understand it benefiting ANet. They do need to make money after all. But if the rate is so high as to preclude most from engaging in it, then what is the point of even having such a system?

1. you have absolutely no evidence it’s excluding players from engaging in it.
2. You’re lumping players together into one category. There’s 3 key components to this issue. Players who spend real money, players who don’t spend real money, and Anet. The current system has pros and cons for all 3. Ultimately, it’s a compromise that I think is quite elegant.

The ‘economic community’ and the people that support each and every misstep are the reason that the economy is broken as it is.

As I see it, most of that ‘economic community’ are the ones speculating and flipping on the TP and siphoning money away from players that need it. And those are the actions that are destroying the economy.

No, I literally mean the standard, accepted economic definitions in today’s world. Metrics like inflation, stability of currency exchanges, consumption/production of goods, etc. are all widely-accepted metrics for the health of an economy. Because the core definition of an economy, again, is the production, distribution, and consumption of goods.

With those metrics, GW2’s economy is incredibly healthy. Now I understand if you don’t like things highly priced. That is a perfectly valid complaint. However, that does not mean the economy is “broken” by any means.

Argue as you wish. If you don’t respond, then I will take that that you cannot respond.

I won’t respond because that statement is absolutely false.

Currently, players can earn close to about a gold/hour from doing dailies/world bosses. (I average around 6-8 world bosses in 2 hours, and a full daily earns about ~30s worth of money through one laurel). Minimal effort required. 5 transmutation crystals cost 200 gems, which are around 6 G. Is 6 hours of minimal effort earning for 5 transmutation crystals seriously that unreasonable to you? (Even less if you purchase more in bulk i.e. 10/25 crystals)

Of course not everyone is going to be able to afford legendaries and whatnot. But not everyone shouldn’t, and that’s the whole point of these luxury items. You have to give the hardcore players something to chase for, because they’re players too. And this is the whole basis of Mike O’Brien’s “cosmetic grind” vision that has persisted since GW1.

I play a game to have fun. If I need to spend 10 hours in game to get what would take me 2 out of game for the same reward, I will go for the lesser time expenditure. Grinding for money is not fun.

And that’s exactly how it should be. It’s good business practice. This is not poor design. Unless you consider business practices that lose Anet money “great design” in which we will soon not have a game to play in.

You can not like it, sure. That is your opinion and I cannot change it. But it is far, far from a “poor design.” Working as intended.

EDIT:. One of your biggest assumption that you constantly make is that all or majority of players in this game are achievers. i.e. driven by extrinsic rewards. I assure you that there are many other player types other than achievers, so please try to avoid making statements that generalize players kitten.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bartle_Test

(edited by Ursan.7846)

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Posted by: Lighter.5631

Lighter.5631

team evon for fall of abaddon dungeon!

fall of the water god! oh yes, so excited

“i think it’s an underserved nerf. now we have to slot a stun breaker??”
“berserker stance clears all CC on you and you’re still immune to CC for 8 seconds”
-Excalibur.9748

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Posted by: SynfulChaot.3169

SynfulChaot.3169

— snip —

We’re both operating off of anecdotal evidence, Ursan. Your anecdotal evidence is not superior to mine, just as mine is not superior to yours.

And from this discourse it is clear to me that I will not be able to convince you, nor will you be able to convince me.

Tarnished Coast – Wayfarer’s Accord [Way]
Main: Caeimhe – Sylvari Ranger
Alts: Charr Guardian, Asura Elementalist, Human Thief, Norn Necromancer

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Posted by: Ursan.7846

Ursan.7846

We’re both operating off of anecdotal evidence, Ursan. Your anecdotal evidence is not superior to mine, just as mine is not superior to yours.

And from this discourse it is clear to me that I will not be able to convince you, nor will you be able to convince me.

You’re missing the point here. Even in a working economy, there will always be haves and have-nots. What you’re purporting is that a significant portion of the player base both are 1. achievers and 2. simultaneously have-nots. This is an extraordinary claim, and requires extraordinary evidence. i.e. real hard numbers about the economy.

As for my position, through a combination of actual hard evidence (gw2spidy, mechanics of gem exchange) I’ve disproved several of your statements (gem ratio inflation). And since there’s plenty of precedence similar to my claims (WoW has millions of players spending $15 many month, therefore it’s very believable that many people has real-life money to spend.) my claims are much less extraordinary.

And then there’s the fact that you keep on assuming a massive portion of the playerbase are achievers hell bent on wanting extrinsic rewards. They’re not. A bartle chart of WoW shows that achievers are only 18.50% of the player base.

http://blog.gamerdna.com/2008/10/17/bartle-gender-and-wow/

And I imagine GW2’s playerbase isn’t too different.

I sincerely do hope you’re not ignoring the actual evidence I’ve provided you in my posts.

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Posted by: SynfulChaot.3169

SynfulChaot.3169

You’re missing the point here. Even in a working economy, there will always be haves and have-nots. What you’re purporting is that a significant portion of the player base both are 1. achievers and 2. simultaneously have-nots. This is an extraordinary claim, and requires extraordinary evidence. i.e. real hard numbers about the economy.

As for my position, through a combination of actual hard evidence (gw2spidy, mechanics of gem exchange) I’ve disproved several of your statements (gem ratio inflation). And since there’s plenty of precedence similar to my claims (WoW has millions of players spending $15 many month, therefore it’s very believable that many people has real-life money to spend.) my claims are much less extraordinary.

And then there’s the fact that you keep on assuming a massive portion of the playerbase are achievers hell bent on wanting extrinsic rewards. They’re not. A bartle chart of WoW shows that achievers are only 18.50% of the player base.

http://blog.gamerdna.com/2008/10/17/bartle-gender-and-wow/

And I imagine GW2’s playerbase isn’t too different.

I sincerely do hope you’re not ignoring the actual evidence I’ve provided you in my posts.

I have not once ignored the actual evidence, of which there has been little. Gem prices still seem to be creeping up, though. Very slowly, but it is increasing nonetheless. It is most likely close to achieving equilibrium, but it is not quite there yet. So no, you have not disproved the gem ratio thing.

And I’ve not once said I assumed that a majority were achievers. I’m not quite sure where you got that from…

Again, from this discourse it is clear to me that I will not be able to convince you, nor will you be able to convince me.

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Main: Caeimhe – Sylvari Ranger
Alts: Charr Guardian, Asura Elementalist, Human Thief, Norn Necromancer

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Posted by: Ursan.7846

Ursan.7846

I have not once ignored the actual evidence, of which there has been little. Gem prices still seem to be creeping up, though. Very slowly, but it is increasing nonetheless. It is most likely close to achieving equilibrium, but it is not quite there yet. So no, you have not disproved the gem ratio thing.

You continue to make conclusions without any hard numbers to back it up. Can you at least try to quantify this “increase” and put a number on it? Or will you continue to just hand-wave evidence and state trends without any hard numbers?

I’d love to extract the data from spidy and fit a trend for it, but I don’t know how to so I’m going to do a super rough estimate.

On Apr 30th/May 1st, the high/low was 3G 36S and 3G 7S. Average to be around 3G 21S. The latest data we have is 3G27S and 3G14S, an average of around 3G20S. Even if you skew your data results by taking the low in May 1st (3G7S) and high now (3G27S), that is an increase of 20S in THREE MONTHS. Are you seriously saying that this increase is significant enough to cause disruptions in the economy so huge to call it “broken?” (And of course, the real trend I’m sure is much smaller than this since I purposefully skewed it in your favor.)

And again this is ignoring the actual mechanics of the exchange, which ensures that an infinite, continuous increase of the ratio will not happen.

And I’ve not once said I assumed that a majority were achievers. I’m not quite sure where you got that from…

I apologize for not explaining my discourse a bit better, but your basic metrics for a “broken” economy is a textbook complaint of the Achiever stereotype in the Bartel category of game players: that they want extrinsic rewards, and they want it easier. Your basic complaint is that 1. Gems are too expensive and 2. a majority of players want extrinsic rewards but cannot obtain them and are excluded, thus economy is broken. 1. is highly subjective, but 2. is most likely false. Base on data gathered from previous games, most of the player base actually does not place a huge importance on getting extrinsic rewards (i.e. charged lodestones, precursors). Thus your attempt to characterize the “majority of the playerbase can’t afford X, thus the economy is broken” must be taken with the context of “the majority of players actually don’t care about extrinsic rewards that you talk about.”

(edited by Ursan.7846)

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Posted by: SynfulChaot.3169

SynfulChaot.3169

I have not once ignored the actual evidence, of which there has been little. Gem prices still seem to be creeping up, though. Very slowly, but it is increasing nonetheless. It is most likely close to achieving equilibrium, but it is not quite there yet. So no, you have not disproved the gem ratio thing.

You continue to make conclusions without any hard numbers to back it up. Can you at least try to quantify this “increase” and put a number on it? Or will you continue to just hand-wave evidence and state trends without any hard numbers?

I’d love to extract the data from spidy and fit a trend for it, but I don’t know how to so I’m going to do a super rough estimate.

On Apr 30th/May 1st, the high/low was 3G 36S and 3G 7S. Average to be around 3G 21S. The latest data we have is 3G27S and 3G14S, an average of around 3G20S. Even if you skew your data results by taking the low in May 1st (3G7S) and high now (3G27S), that is an increase of 20S in THREE MONTHS. Are you seriously saying that this increase is significant enough to cause disruptions in the economy so huge to call it “broken?” (And of course, the real trend I’m sure is much smaller than this since I purposefully skewed it in your favor.)

And again this is ignoring the actual mechanics of the exchange, which ensures that an infinite, continuous increase of the ratio will not happen.

Again, it’s a small increase. Look at the rate between mid-April to today. It has peaks and valleys, but it is trending upwards.

And no, that rate is not disrupting the economy. It is just so high that most don’t even consider it an option unless they are completely broke IRL or incredibly rich in game. That fact there makes it broken.

And I’ve not once said I assumed that a majority were achievers. I’m not quite sure where you got that from…

I apologize for not explaining my discourse a bit better, but your basic metrics for a “broken” economy is a textbook complaint of the Achiever stereotype in the Bartel category of game players: that they want extrinsic rewards, and they want it easier. Your basic complaint is that 1. Gems are too expensive and 2. a majority of players want extrinsic rewards but cannot obtain them and are excluded, thus economy is broken. 1. is highly subjective, but 2. is most likely false. Base on data gathered from previous games, most of the player base actually does not place a huge importance on getting extrinsic rewards (i.e. charged lodestones, precursors). Thus your attempt to characterize the “majority of the playerbase can’t afford X, thus the economy is broken” must be taken with the context of “the majority of players actually don’t care about extrinsic rewards that you talk about.”

You cannot make base assumptions of the playerbase either. I, personally, play on Tarnished Coast. The RP server. Appearance is kinda highly important over here.

Yes, the ‘gems are too expensive’ argument is completely subjective. I hold that they are, you hold that they are not.

As for the ‘extrinsic rewards’ argument, I never claimed that a majority do. But when certain items are priced that much higher, that is a bad sign regardless of how many are seeking them. It is a sign of artificial scarcity.

Legendaries are already hard enough to get because of all of the other components you need to collect. Components including 100g directly, 77 items that you have a 1/3 chance in the Mystic Toilet to get, and 250+ of every single T6 mat. Gating them behind the sheer insanely high price and/or low RNG chance or obtaining a precursor in addition to all that is just unnecessary and shortsighted.

As for Charged Lodestones? They cost way more than any other. Why? Because they are used for far more recipes than any other lodestone, and in greater numbers. And they are one of the hardest to attain as what they drop from is more limited in number. Again, the fact that they are so rare and needed for more recipes than any other lodestone is just unnecessary and shortsighted.

And again. As I’ve stated twice before. From this discourse it is clear to me that I will not be able to convince you, nor will you be able to convince me.

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Posted by: Ursan.7846

Ursan.7846

Again, it’s a small increase. Look at the rate between mid-April to today. It has peaks and valleys, but it is trending upwards.

And no, that rate is not disrupting the economy. It is just so high that most don’t even consider it an option unless they are completely broke IRL or incredibly rich in game. That fact there makes it broken.

You continue to make statements without any evidence. “Most don’t even consider it an option.”

I’ve even presented you with some in-game examples. In the past hour or so I’ve done 4 world events, and netted about ~1G in profit from yellow/blue/greens. Again, this is about 6 hours of minimal effort for 5 fine transmutation crystals. You continue to try to state that this bar is somehow set incredibly high. It’s not. Please stop exaggerating facts in order to progress your argument.

And I’ve stated many times, luxury goods being expensive does not mean a broken economy under most widely-accepted definitions for the health of the economy. Again, you can use your own definition. You can have a problem with how expensive certain goods are. That does not mean, however, that the economy is “broken” in any definition of those words.

You cannot make base assumptions of the playerbase either. I, personally, play on Tarnished Coast. The RP server. Appearance is kinda highly important over here.

Yes, the ‘gems are too expensive’ argument is completely subjective. I hold that they are, you hold that they are not.

Please don’t misrepresent my statements. I am simply presenting data from previous games, and commenting that the player base make-up for this game most likely is very similar. And the data shows that a majority of players place little importance on extrinsic rewards. Hence your argument that the inability to access luxury goods as some kind of problem which affects “a majority” of players is most likely not true.

Also, no, I did not hold say that the “gems are too expensive” is not subjective. I said the complete opposite. Please do not misrepresent my statements.

As for the ‘extrinsic rewards’ argument, I never claimed that a majority do. But when certain items are priced that much higher, that is a bad sign regardless of how many are seeking them. It is a sign of artificial scarcity.

Every item in the game has an arbitrarily set “scarcity” set by the game developers. Some items are more scarce than others. Some items are more sought after than others. This is natural, and exactly what the devs intended when they created an incredibly free market through the current TP system.

Legendaries are already hard enough to get because of all of the other components you need to collect. Components including 100g directly, 77 items that you have a 1/3 chance in the Mystic Toilet to get, and 250+ of every single T6 mat. Gating them behind the sheer insanely high price and/or low RNG chance or obtaining a precursor in addition to all that is just unnecessary and shortsighted.

Why is the fact that, a certain item exists which are incredibly expensive short-sighted? It gives the hardcore players a goal to strive towards, while minimally impacting players who choose not to go for it. That is the ideal of horizontal progression, and I think Anet nailed it quite nicely.

I’m not sure why you bring this up. Is the existence of Legendaries, by your definition, lead to a “broken economy” or somthing? Does the sheer existence of luxury goods mean the economy is broken? During some highly successful economic eras in the US, i.e. 50s – 70s, or the 90s-2000s, there were plenty of luxury items that a majority of Americans could not afford. Does this mean the economics during that time were “broken?”

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Posted by: Ursan.7846

Ursan.7846

As for Charged Lodestones? They cost way more than any other. Why? Because they are used for far more recipes than any other lodestone, and in greater numbers. And they are one of the hardest to attain as what they drop from is more limited in number. Again, the fact that they are so rare and needed for more recipes than any other lodestone is just unnecessary and shortsighted.

You keep on bringing up these points. “X is expensive. Y is expensive. Z is expensive. This is a significant problem, therefore, the economy is broken.” You’re using your own personal metrics in order to judge the economy as “broken,” applying your arbitrary ideal value on items which the market obviously values differently, while making rather extraordinary claims which flies against knowledge gathered from previous games. This is the reason why I’m going to continue to drone on and on about the definition of an economy, while posting statistics.

It is completely valid to dislike high prices of certain materials. That is your personal opinion, I cannot change that. However, under no widely-accepted definition of the word “economy,” does that mean the economy is broken.

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Posted by: SynfulChaot.3169

SynfulChaot.3169

Ursan.

As I’ve now stated three previous times. From this discourse it is clear to me that I will not be able to convince you, nor will you be able to convince me. I tire of this conversation and will not continue. I have better things to do.

Tarnished Coast – Wayfarer’s Accord [Way]
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Alts: Charr Guardian, Asura Elementalist, Human Thief, Norn Necromancer

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Posted by: Rainin.9812

Rainin.9812

He’s not ONLY RNG boxes, he’s all that stuff that is making your life easy.

Oh. And the 15% cut to your sales. And the inability to pull sales and get any of your deposit back. And the inability to sell directly to others in a secured fashion.

Need I go on?

Yes, the TP is better than having nowhere to officially trade. But the fact that we are all funneled there and have no alternatives (direct trading, for example) bothers many. As does the gem-gold ratio, which is only climbing higher and higher. Further and further away from standard players ability to actually use it.

Yes, the TP is nice. No, the economy is not.

Evon is the in-game embodiment of the economy. A vote for him is a vote that we have faith in the economy. Many of us have lost that faith. A long time ago.

This.

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Posted by: Ursan.7846

Ursan.7846

Ursan.

As I’ve now stated three previous times. From this discourse it is clear to me that I will not be able to convince you, nor will you be able to convince me. I tire of this conversation and will not continue. I have better things to do.

I continue to post because you continue to use your personal metrics and personal anecdotes to try to gauge GW2’s economy’s health. However, I continue to repeat this, but based on widely-accepted definition of the word “economy,” GW2’s economy is far from broken, unless you can provide me with evidence to the contrary. Again, I repeat, it’s okay to think certain goods are priced too expensively. However, to correlate that to a “broken” economy is only true in your own personal definition of an economy, but not true when examined under the strict, widely-accepted definition of an “economy” (production, distribution, and consumption of goods.)

If you’re tired of this conversation, you are under no obligation to post. Contrary to what you may believe, I am not forcing you to post.

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Posted by: SynfulChaot.3169

SynfulChaot.3169

I continue to post because you continue to use your personal metrics and personal anecdotes to try to gauge GW2’s economy’s health.

Et tu.

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Posted by: Iason Evan.3806

Iason Evan.3806

Trying to make it about RNG is hilarious. This comes down to two long term choices: Do you want a Thaumanova Fractal or an Abaddon Fractal? If you are voting for WP costs or BLTC key prices for a month you are doing it wrong. Look at the long term. I fully expect every GW1 player to follow their hearts and every heart will lead to Abaddon.

#ElectEvon

Leader of The Guernsey Milking Coalition [MiLk] Sanctum of Rall

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Posted by: SynfulChaot.3169

SynfulChaot.3169

Trying to make it about RNG is hilarious. This comes down to two long term choices: Do you want a Thaumanova Fractal or an Abaddon Fractal? If you are voting for WP costs or BLTC key prices for a month you are doing it wrong. Look at the long term. I fully expect every GW1 player to follow their hearts and every heart will lead to Abaddon.

#ElectEvon

I’m torn. I would prefer the Abbadon fractal, but I really want to let ANet know that I really, really abhor their RNG practices. And what better way than to vote against the in-game face of the Black Lion Trading Company.

Note: I am a GW1 player and lore-fiend. I really do want to see the Abbadon content. I just don’t know if I can force myself to vote for Evon due to his BLTC relations.

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Posted by: Ursan.7846

Ursan.7846

Et tu.

No, I actually am not using my personal definition of something to try to make my argument, and instead using widely accepted definitions of what an economy is, and looking at widely-used metrics to determine an economy’s health.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy

An economy consists of the economic system in a certain region, comprising the production, distribution or trade, and consumption of goods and services in that region or country.

And there are several indicators for the health of an economy. An economy is “unhealthy” if any of these factors reduce the distribution of goods across the playerbase.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy#Economic_measures

Several of them we can ignore, since it doesn’t apply to virtual worlds (Debt, balance of trade, etc…)

One indicator is Exchange Rate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exchange_Rate). As can be seen from the Gem/Gold exchange, it’s incredibly stable. A constantly fluctuating Ratio would scare players from purchasing Gems since the value of Gems is unclear, thus hurting the economy. However, this is obviously not the case.

Another indicator is Rate of Inflation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation). Again, as can be seen from the Gem/Gold exchange (as well the relatively stable price of many other commodities) the rate of inflation is quite low. Hyperinflation is bad for the economy because it quickly makes gold worthless and makes players lose trust in Gold as a currency, lead to a barter system, impacts the efficiency of trade negatively, and thus hurting the economy (i.e. D3’s economy!). Again, this obviously is not the case.

A third indicator is Consumer Spending (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumer_spending). For an economy to function, consumers must be actively purchasing goods and consuming them. If players are not consuming goods, than values of good plummet, and obviously will hurt the economy since there are less transactions occurring. While this is a bit harder to pinpoint, thanks to data from John Smith we can confirm that around 10 Dusks are consumed in a 24 hour span (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/Attention-to-the-price-of-Dusk/page/4#post1470141). So even some of the most luxurious items are being produced and consumed at quite a brisk pace. With numbers like that, we can safely assume that many commodities, such as ectos, materials, exotic/rare items, and yes, precursors, are being produced/traded/consumed. Which means the economy is incredibly healthy.

In conclusion, based on the metrics I’ve cited, GW2’s economy is incredibly healthy.

(edited by Ursan.7846)

Blame Evon for RNG and not for ALL the good?

in Cutthroat Politics

Posted by: Onshidesigns.1069

Onshidesigns.1069

Abbadon will most likely be fractal in time anyways.

So just wait for it and vote against RNG skins in the gem store.

Blame Evon for RNG and not for ALL the good?

in Cutthroat Politics

Posted by: SynfulChaot.3169

SynfulChaot.3169

Abbadon will most likely be fractal in time anyways.

So just wait for it and vote against RNG skins in the gem store.

That’s my hope. And guess. Gotta cross the fingers.

Tarnished Coast – Wayfarer’s Accord [Way]
Main: Caeimhe – Sylvari Ranger
Alts: Charr Guardian, Asura Elementalist, Human Thief, Norn Necromancer