Guild Wars 2

Humans prosper in Kryta, Orr and Ascalon, charr legions did never unite, they either got extinct by inner war + the push of Ascalonians, or lost even more ground.

(maybe)Gods still reside in Arah. When Zhaitan rises, Orr prevails, and the gods have a fight with him.

Cantha – Kaineng isn’t the ghetto it is now, the Jade Sea is really a sea, te Echowald forest isn’t from stone.

Elona: Palawa Joko never got released, and Korna, Istan and Vabbi still stand.

New players would need to know more about the important parts of the lore, and Abaddon is the most important.

Quite the speculation. Keep in mind, however, that no one would have magic – not in its current form at least. So Ascalonians would get wtfpwned because they’re just going strength vs. strength – they were able to hold back thanks to magikittenil the charr got better magic, but without being able to hold out thanks to magic, the charr would just wtfpwn them.

Mursaat would have returned regardless and slaughtered all the magicless humans with their own Spectral Agony since it wasn’t taken in the Bloodstone. Bye bye Kryta.

Zhaitan would have risen regardless, wiping out most of the humans there and devouring the gods if they remained – if not, then humans would have no means of defense and get wiped out anyways, just no tidal wave caused by a rising of the land.

Cantha – Canthans would have gotten their kitten handed to them by the tengu because they’re idiots who encroached on tengu territory and sparked a war, without the population increase caused by refugees from the Jade Wind incident, the empire’s population would be too low to build up a large enough army to do that. Luxons and Kurzicks would keep beating each other up in the meantime.

Elona – Joko never existed in the first place as a lich, and no Varesh-gone mad. So they’re the only human bastion left when the Elder Dragons rise. The Margonites still roam the Crystal Sea, and are the main human fighting force against Zhaitan and Kralkatorrik.

Not quite what you imagine, eh Gandarel?

Did you really have to create another thread on this? If folks who never played GW1 want to know about Abaddon, we have the Temple of the Forgotten God to spark interest. And the mention of the Fall of Abaddon would spark some interest to, and they’d go to the wikis and read the lore. The fractal will not be giving as much lore as you think it will. I can promise that.

its true new players dont know enough about abbadon

Well here’s the GW:Nightfall side of Abaddon/Kormir’s story covered
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxmkAoLC6_4

^when watching that, keep in mind Kormir= Trahearne/Kiel. Ok not as bad as Trahearne, and Kiel we arent totally sure yet. But yes good thread, Abaddon is the most important character, besides me of course.

Zhaitan eats magic, gods are magic, zhaitan eats gods and becomes mega uber powerful and slaughters Orr to pieces

If they did Abaddon. Players would only complain about how it was redone.

Onshidesigns.1069:

If they did Abaddon. Players would only complain about how it was redone.

no? because it have not been done yet?

I doubt a 15min Fractal can convey the amount of lore and information people seem to hope it will.

Terrahero.9358:

I doubt a 15min Fractal can convey the amount of lore and information people seem to hope it will.

True! alltho only way to be telling this story is through the fractal. How else? an expansion pack and the story is about thousands of years ago? Wouldnt work. Living world event? wouldnt work imo. Fractal is the way to do this!

that video was hilariously good fun kudos to the creator

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Quite the speculation. Keep in mind, however, that no one would have magic – not in its current form at least. So Ascalonians would get wtfpwned because they’re just going strength vs. strength – they were able to hold back thanks to magikittenil the charr got better magic, but without being able to hold out thanks to magic, the charr would just wtfpwn them.

Mursaat would have returned regardless and slaughtered all the magicless humans with their own Spectral Agony since it wasn’t taken in the Bloodstone. Bye bye Kryta.

Zhaitan would have risen regardless, wiping out most of the humans there and devouring the gods if they remained – if not, then humans would have no means of defense and get wiped out anyways, just no tidal wave caused by a rising of the land.

Cantha – Canthans would have gotten their kitten handed to them by the tengu because they’re idiots who encroached on tengu territory and sparked a war, without the population increase caused by refugees from the Jade Wind incident, the empire’s population would be too low to build up a large enough army to do that. Luxons and Kurzicks would keep beating each other up in the meantime.

Elona – Joko never existed in the first place as a lich, and no Varesh-gone mad. So they’re the only human bastion left when the Elder Dragons rise. The Margonites still roam the Crystal Sea, and are the main human fighting force against Zhaitan and Kralkatorrik.

Not quite what you imagine, eh Gandarel?

Did you really have to create another thread on this? If folks who never played GW1 want to know about Abaddon, we have the Temple of the Forgotten God to spark interest. And the mention of the Fall of Abaddon would spark some interest to, and they’d go to the wikis and read the lore. The fractal will not be giving as much lore as you think it will. I can promise that.

It’s interesting how you call my points speculation while yours is real nonsese.

You are a traitor to GW1 and lore Go chill out at CoE or the Uncategorized fractal and enjoy your asura dungeons YOU ALREADY HAVE.

Zhaitan got defeated by a mega-laser.. I don’t think he could beat a god face to face. When Zhaitan died, he just fell down. When Abaddon, who was already defeated and a bit powerless, imprisoned in the realm of torment, was killed, his unleashed power was so strong that it could have destroyed 2 worlds.

Canthan military could be still ways larger than the Tengu, if we look at the territory itself.

Also I don’t think that the world would have no magic, maybe just a bit less to keep it under control better in the first place.

The charrs without a Khan-Ur agains the humans and their gods would have faced total defeat on the long run if the gods have stayed, and without the titans, the searing couldn’t have happened, nor the invasion, nor the alliance of the legions.

I think Konig is right, plus he really does know his lore. I also don’t see the point in this thread as Abaddon existed regardless of this fractal, so it’s kind of irrelevant.

Nicely focussing on the ‘Evil’ Abaddon did, however, it’s said Abaddon was the wisest of the bunch and the other five often looked to him for advice or guidance. In fact if you read the extra lore, he seems holier than Dwayna in his days.

If we’re going to go on a wild speculation hunt anyway, I’m going to throw in “No Abaddon = no humans in Tyria”. After all, who is to say Abaddon didn’t have a vital role in that project?

Gandarel.5091:

Go chill out at CoE or the Uncategorized fractal and enjoy your asura dungeons YOU ALREADY HAVE.

The same could be said about Abaddon. He had an entire campaign for himself, and he was the puppet master behind the villains in the story prior. If you miss him that much, you can always go back to gw1 and enjoy what “YOU ALREADY HAVE”.

:)

Erukk.1408:

Gandarel.5091:

Go chill out at CoE or the Uncategorized fractal and enjoy your asura dungeons YOU ALREADY HAVE.

The same could be said about Abaddon. He had an entire campaign for himself, and he was the puppet master behind the villains in the story prior. If you miss him that much, you can always go back to gw1 and enjoy what “YOU ALREADY HAVE”.

:)

This brings in totally different landscape and many many things that gw2 doesn’t have. On the other side, the reactor would be just a re-skin with mobs we already have about an experiment we already experienced.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

- snip -

Not quite what you imagine, eh Gandarel?

Did you really have to create another thread on this? If folks who never played GW1 want to know about Abaddon, we have the Temple of the Forgotten God to spark interest. And the mention of the Fall of Abaddon would spark some interest to, and they’d go to the wikis and read the lore. The fractal will not be giving as much lore as you think it will. I can promise that.

Even if Gandarel is an aggressive, flamer troll… he’s right. That’s not what would’ve happened… AT ALL.

Ascalonians had begun the conquest of Ascalon before magic became widespread. With the gods still around – especially the human supremacist Balthazar – they would’ve pushed the charr completely out of Ascalon and the Blood Legion Homelands back to the east of the Blazeridge if not further. One way or the other, the charr empire would’ve been utterly annihilated.

Seriously Konig… stop acting like you know the reason behind everything. The mursaat were afraid of the Flameseeker Prophecies, and they hunted the human Chosen to stop it from coming to pass – they weren’t out to slaughter Kryta… back then. Without Abaddon, there would’ve been no Cataclysm, no Door of Komalie, no invading titans… so the mursaat would’ve had no reason to oppress the Krytans with lies and spectral agony. Besides, the gods knew about the mursaat, and they could’ve probably figured out a way to combat their magic under that 1,000+ years that they would’ve spent on Tyria instead. -> Humans and gods roflstomping the returning mursaat.

sigh Zhaitan was only strong because he rose in an undefended graveyard of corpses and a vast museum of magical artifacts. Considering that ED are kitten weak when they awake (Jormag getting his tooth ripped out, Kralky getting mind-beaten by an asura and nearly dying), a lone Zhaitan would’ve been just a BIG, rotting lizard with wings… no match for the Six. Especially if we consider that in that 1,000+ years they could’ve figured out they’d accidentally built their palace on Zhaitan. Then they would’ve went on to kill him in his sleep – along with the other Elder Dragons. The Forgotten are there in force in this alternate timeline, with no casualties suffered at Abaddon’s hands – both in Tyria and the Realm of Torment. Together the Six, humanity, and the Forgotten and with their uncorruptible magic the Elder Dragons would’ve been – as you like to say nowadays – “wtfpwned” with extreme prejudice.

Cantha: gods are still there, answering prayers. Balthazar is a human supremacist psychopath who would commit genocide on all non-humans. No Jade Wind: time before encroaching on tengu territories pushed much further -> thriving of the Dragon Empire without turning their lands to slums (technological, military, etc.). Tengu also without magic. Result? Canthan tengu wiped out entirely.

About the Kurzicks and Luxons: no Abaddon -> Shiro isn’t corrupted -> doesn’t murder Angsiyan -> peace between the vassal states and the Empire -> reannexation.

Elona would’ve been a pretty peaceful place. If the scarab plague was magical in origin, the Primeval Dynasty would still rule all three provinces and there would’ve been no Scourge of Vabbi. (If not, then as you said: Varesh remaining a noble warmarshal, Palawa Joko would’ve never risen to undeath and power, and the Margonites would be still around.)

All in all: if Abaddon didn’t exist – and the Five figured out the way to bring humanity to Tyria without him – then the non-human world would be under the crushing bootheel of humanity and their gods now.

But I agree on your last sentiment: that fractal would do no justice to an awesomely epic and determining moment as the actual Fall of Abaddon. We’d see Abaddon plummetting to the ocean, fight scantily clad sailors called Margonites in the Temple of the Six Gods, and watch blinding blurs of signature colors representing each of the Five Gods in the distance. I dare say I get more excited if I use my fantasy to imagine an event we know about.

Evans is also right. He might’ve been to first to learn of Tyria’s existence, and proposed the others to flee there with humanity.

ZinN.6124:

Terrahero.9358:

I doubt a 15min Fractal can convey the amount of lore and information people seem to hope it will.

True! alltho only way to be telling this story is through the fractal. How else? an expansion pack and the story is about thousands of years ago? Wouldnt work. Living world event? wouldnt work imo. Fractal is the way to do this!

They are working on raid content, make it a raid in FotM. Or make it a full blown dungeon experience, using the FotM technology and saying “ow this is in the past/alternate universe”.

There are ways. But right now it sounds like its going to be just another 15min mini-dungeon.

Terrahero, a troll is who starts random arguements just to annoy people ad make chatwar for hi own joy, while I’m just a determined supporter of the fractal :P

Anyways thanks for your opinion and kind-of-support thing.

Btw people, get creative, maybe they make it as long as 2 fractals and either give bonus reward or count it as if 2 fractals were completed. Get creative. Ofc, unlikely tohappen, but still.

Or just make it fast paced, a blitzkrieg to end this threat fast.

If it is anything remarkable, they might turn it into an every 10 levels boss fractal, with a special loot table. That’s as good as you’re going to get in the best of circumstances.

Evans.6347:

If it is anything remarkable, they might turn it into an every 10 levels boss fractal, with a special loot table. That’s as good as you’re going to get in the best of circumstances.

That’s a great idea btw. Or make it replace every 5th fractal lvl.

By the same reasoning that could be the Molten facility and Aetherblade base. All three get released simultaneously.

Gandarel.5091:

Terrahero, a troll is who starts random arguements just to annoy people ad make chatwar for hi own joy, while I’m just a determined supporter of the fractal :P

Anyways thanks for your opinion and kind-of-support thing.

Err… it was I who called you a troll – and I still stand by that opinion – and I who “kind-of-supported” your arguments.

At least check who wrote what if dragging down all your debates to flame-war is unavoidable.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Quite the speculation. Keep in mind, however, that no one would have magic – not in its current form at least. So Ascalonians would get wtfpwned because they’re just going strength vs. strength – they were able to hold back thanks to magikittenil the charr got better magic, but without being able to hold out thanks to magic, the charr would just wtfpwn them.

Mursaat would have returned regardless and slaughtered all the magicless humans with their own Spectral Agony since it wasn’t taken in the Bloodstone. Bye bye Kryta.

Zhaitan would have risen regardless, wiping out most of the humans there and devouring the gods if they remained – if not, then humans would have no means of defense and get wiped out anyways, just no tidal wave caused by a rising of the land.

Cantha – Canthans would have gotten their kitten handed to them by the tengu because they’re idiots who encroached on tengu territory and sparked a war, without the population increase caused by refugees from the Jade Wind incident, the empire’s population would be too low to build up a large enough army to do that. Luxons and Kurzicks would keep beating each other up in the meantime.

Elona – Joko never existed in the first place as a lich, and no Varesh-gone mad. So they’re the only human bastion left when the Elder Dragons rise. The Margonites still roam the Crystal Sea, and are the main human fighting force against Zhaitan and Kralkatorrik.

Not quite what you imagine, eh Gandarel?

Did you really have to create another thread on this? If folks who never played GW1 want to know about Abaddon, we have the Temple of the Forgotten God to spark interest. And the mention of the Fall of Abaddon would spark some interest to, and they’d go to the wikis and read the lore. The fractal will not be giving as much lore as you think it will. I can promise that.

Not really Konig.

1v1 Ascalonians wtfpwn Charr. Charr strength was in their numbers, not fighting prowess.

The principle defense against the Mursaat, infusion, wasn’t magic related. So no, they wouldn’t have wtfpwnd Kryta.

If there was no magic, there’d be no Elder Dragons either. They were written into GW2 lore as devourers of magic, and, by default, to eclipse the human gods as the apex beings of power in Tyria. Can’t have human gods in charge in a game with multiple races ya know.

Cantha being overrun by Tengu…odd. Tengu used magic too Konig, as did all of the at least semi-sentient races of Tyria.

Elona…you’re right about that one.

Not quite what you imagine, eh Konig?

You know Konig, if you didn’t answer posts with such scathing rhetoric, your ideas might be a little better received in this community.

just sayin…

Obsidian… there would’ve been magic and Elder Dragons still. It’s not the gods who created magic. It is the Mists. Only difference is that there would’ve been no Bloodstone strengthening, shattering, and magic given out to Tyria.

Still, I reckon the ED would’ve been a bunch of pushovers (if they ever lived to actually rise) in a magic-stripped world governed by gods, their chosen race, and aided by the Forgotten whose magic they can’t corrupt.

Thalador…that’s a subject that’s been argued over already in other posts. The gods not creating magic, like the Elder Dragons themselves, was not part of GW1 lore until GW2 was under development. Take that however you want I suppose.

Taking your side, if magic was completely independent of the gods, there’d be no reason for them in the first place…aside from a space taxi service for the humans to bring them from…wherever it is they come from. I’m sure a writer could come up with dozens of ways to mimic the Bloodstone’s effects without having to rely on divine intervention.

Thalador.4218:

Elona would’ve been a pretty peaceful place. If the scarab plague was magical in origin, the Primeval Dynasty would still rule all three provinces and there would’ve been no Scourge of Vabbi. (If not, then as you said: Varesh remaining a noble warmarshal, Palawa Joko would’ve never risen to undeath and power, and the Margonites would be still around.)

Wait, aren’t the margonites followers of abbadon? That would mean that, if abbadon didn’t come through, there wouldn’t be any margonites on tyria.

Obsidian.1328:

Thalador…that’s a subject that’s been argued over already in other posts. The gods not creating magic, like the Elder Dragons themselves, was not part of GW1 lore until GW2 was under development. Take that however you want I suppose.

Taking your side, if magic was completely independent of the gods, there’d be no reason for them in the first place…aside from a space taxi service for the humans to bring them from…wherever it is they come from. I’m sure a writer could come up with dozens of ways to mimic the Bloodstone’s effects without having to rely on divine intervention.

The gods not creating magic was a fact even before Guild Wars 1 was released. There’s nothing to argue about. Magic is independent of the gods, and have existed since the dawn of time. It is known:

Before there were humans or dwarves, before there were even worlds or the stars that light the night sky, there was but one thing in the universe—the Mists. The Mists touch all things. They are what binds the universe together, past, present, and future. They are the source of all good and evil, of all matter and knowledge. It is said that all forms of life, no matter how simple or complex, can trace their origins back to this one place.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/The_Mists

Your blind devotion to Thadeus Lamount’s History of Tyria is uncalled for, as his beliefs of magic coming from the human gods have been proven incorrect since day 1 – as you can read above. Magic originates from the Mists as well.

I can’t really comment on your… analogy of the gods as nothing more than stewards and sexy stewardesses for an instantaneous warp through the Mists. They became gods for a reason; a reason we have not yet discovered, but hopefully will. They were accepted as gods of humanity for a reason. I believe the original Six somehow absorbed a large concentration of a particular aspect of the Mists (war/conflict/strife, life, death, knowledge, nature, insubstantial/mental things and concepts) that they could govern over – in a nigh unlimited way – from then on. The energies/powers they took over were eternal and indestructible, but their once-mortal bodies were not (as seen in Abaddon’s case and his predecessor’s, and maybe that of the predecessors of the other gods as well).

I take it you still don’t believe that it was the seers who created the Bloodstone, so I see no point in arguing over that. Someone, sometime would’ve found it and would’ve tampered with it one way or the other. The fact that the finders were the human gods is both coincidental and understandable: they were drawn to powerful magical objects across the world.

@castlemanic: at the end of the day Margonites were still seafaring humans, much like the Luxons (the theory of Luxon-Margonite connection is brought up by an in-game (GW1) source as well). They would’ve come through with the rest of humanity, probably would’ve still called themselves Margonites, but would’ve turned to a different god to be their patron – probably the one most tied to water and sea.

Ritualist magic would still be there even without abaddon.

Thalador.4218:

@castlemanic: at the end of the day Margonites were still seafaring humans, much like the Luxons (the theory of Luxon-Margonite connection is brought up by an in-game (GW1) source as well). They would’ve come through with the rest of humanity, probably would’ve still called themselves Margonites, but would’ve turned to a different god to be their patron – probably the one most tied to water and sea.

Makes sense. I know I didn’t really ask anything but thanks for the info.

And why exactly people can’t just go and play Gw1 to get this lore? Its what I’m already doing.

And I don’t want to get twice the same lore, I mean.. is worthless.

We have the right to choose for a new content, something that bring new lights. Don’t try to convince me to vote in you because you want to relife abaddon lore.

It’s not reliving Abaddon lore. We’ve were never there for the Fall of Abaddon, just his “demise”. Since half the pre-historic lore of gw1 has been retconned or proven wrong, this fractal gives us an actual chance to have some semblance of what really happened.

This is annoying now….

Ahem….

FRACTAL

Ahem….

Fractals are based on inaccurate past events.

As for Abaddon, I fought his minions in 3 GW Campaigns! Lich-Titans , Shiro-Shiro’ken, and Demons-Abaddon-Varesh. Enough with him!

MauricioCezar.2673:

And why exactly people can’t just go and play Gw1 to get this lore? Its what I’m already doing.

And I don’t want to get twice the same lore, I mean.. is worthless.

We have the right to choose for a new content, something that bring new lights. Don’t try to convince me to vote in you because you want to relife abaddon lore.

Because this takes place 1070 years before Gw1…

I mean the gods lore.

gods lore is gw1 lore, not gw2 lore.

MauricioCezar.2673:

I mean the gods lore.

gods lore is gw1 lore, not gw2 lore.

I seem to have noticed some 6 temples and a whole city that, for some reason I can’t quite place, seem related to the gods, yet are found in gw2.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

If folks who never played GW1 want to know about Abaddon, we have the Temple of the Forgotten God to spark interest. And the mention of the Fall of Abaddon would spark some interest to, and they’d go to the wikis and read the lore. The fractal will not be giving as much lore as you think it will. I can promise that.

I hate to burst your “Think you know it” spree; but the lore we’d be getting with the Abbadon Fractal details HOW he fell from being a righteous God. Not the “Fight along side Kormir” bit. Hence “The Fall of Abbadon” Meaning; His fall from the good graces of the other Gods. If you go to the GW2 Wiki is says the Fall of Abaddon Fractal is pre GW1. Let me bold it for you this time: The Fall of Abbadon Fractal is PRE-GW1"

Which means it IS new lore. We’ll be finding out why he fell and for what purpose.

Thalador

Is “bestow” a better word? I didn’t mean to imply the gods were the creators of magic since the beginning of time in the whole universe in all of existence…lol. I’m speaking about a video game. And I don’t remember who Thadeus Lamount was, I assume the author of that History you posted. I agree with most things in there, but the majority of my opinion has a lot more to do with things you experience in the actual game, and not what someone says about it now who wasn’t there when said game-world was released.

They were never written as anything less than “godly”, and 3 entire games’ worth of content attests to that. If you can’t distinguish between two separate sources we have no common ground to discuss anything. Instead of arguing about what the Six are and their roles, you should be asking the better question of what ANet plans to do with them and why. Their past, along with many other things, has already been altered. What happens to them now is a lot less telling about who the gods are, and a lot more telling about what the writers want you to think about them.

After all, ANet(and NCSoft) is a business first and foremost. Their creative staff has to steer content to the direction their business model wants to go. Obviously they thought adding new cliched player races, dragons, and oodles of theme-park content and items was the way to go to attract more customers. All I ever comment on here is the past…and how it has changed since then. I don’t really care what happens now.

But seriously, if you really think both games share the same lore and spirit, I can’t argue with you. The gods, for all intensive game purposes, and even if ANet brought them back for a brief appearance, are dead.

Dead, dead, dead.

Abaddon, if imagined to be real for a moment, would have been happy he didn’t have to be around in a time when his kind didn’t matter anymore.

@SpeedFiend : Sorry, but you know how to read and interpret? Because I really hate to explain a couple of times with shiny stars what I mean to say, when its too obivous.

Abaddon = Precursor of Gw1 Lore = Gods lore.

MauricioCezar.2673:

@SpeedFiend : Sorry, but you know how to read and interpret? Because I really hate to explain a couple of times with shiny stars what I mean to say, when its too obivous.

Abaddon = Precursor of Gw1 Lore = Gods lore.

I’m quite proficient at reading comprehension, thank you. What I don’t understand is how you think that he has no place in the lore of gw2, or how the (very little and now retconned/shown to be unreliable lore we have in gw1 is in any way a complete account of what happened. This is the single most lynchpin-ish event in the lore of Tyria. Perhaps Abaddon will just shout an offhanded insult at one of the gods parents in the fractal. Perhaps he’ll elaborate on his motives. I’m not taking the chance to miss out on that for some asura slip-up.

And even if the fractal gives us absolutely NOTHING lore-wise, it’ll show us what the gods looked like (not a mural, not a statue, nor what my grandma thinks they should look like), so far as their gw2 engine rendition is concerned. This would make the developers go and make models for all these things, as opposed to using generic inquest operative #91203 in the Thaumanova fractal. I’ve seen what inquest look like, I’ve seen what the reactor looks like, I’ve seen things blow up. I haven’t seen the gods in gw2, and dammit, that’s what I want, and I know I’m far from alone in this.

MauricioCezar.2673:

@SpeedFiend : Sorry, but you know how to read and interpret? Because I really hate to explain a couple of times with shiny stars what I mean to say, when its too obivous.

Abaddon = Precursor of Gw1 Lore = Gods lore.

no matter how much you say it’s GW1 lore, it doesn’t mean that lore relating to it can’t be introduced in GW2. In fact, we’re learning lot’s of interesting lore things relating to the God’s and what you would consider GW1 lore that’s already in GW2.

Having some more lore that hasn’t been shown in GW1 or GW2 yet is new lore for both games, as they encompass the same universe (or rather multiverse), meaning whatever lore is relevant in GW1 is relevant in GW2.

MauricioCezar.2673:

@SpeedFiend : Sorry, but you know how to read and interpret? Because I really hate to explain a couple of times with shiny stars what I mean to say, when its too obivous.

Abaddon = Precursor of Gw1 Lore = Gods lore.

If you look at the map of the world, not just Tyria continent. Well, half of that was caused by Abaddon. So it’s pretty much Gw2 lore too.

Ravij.9856:

I hate to burst your “Think you know it” spree; but the lore we’d be getting with the Abbadon Fractal details HOW he fell from being a righteous God. Not the “Fight along side Kormir” bit. Hence “The Fall of Abbadon” Meaning; His fall from the good graces of the other Gods. If you go to the GW2 Wiki is says the Fall of Abaddon Fractal is pre GW1. Let me bold it for you this time: The Fall of Abbadon Fractal is PRE-GW1"

Which means it IS new lore. We’ll be finding out why he fell and for what purpose.

the temple of the forgotten god is a GW2 personal story chapter that directly involves abbadon. Also Konig has been reminding everyone that the fractal will in act NOT be the GW1 battle.

On top of that, he mentioned that the fractal will not provide as much lore as everyone thinks, which is probably going to be true.

The only way we’d get that kind of lore is if fractals were turned into pve zones that could be explored by entering the fotm portal. And since that’s never going to happen, i doubt we’ll ever get the lore that we want and expect.

Gandarel.5091:

Humans prosper in Kryta, Orr and Ascalon, charr legions did never unite, they either got extinct by inner war + the push of Ascalonians, or lost even more ground.

(maybe)Gods still reside in Arah. When Zhaitan rises, Orr prevails, and the gods have a fight with him.

Cantha – Kaineng isn’t the ghetto it is now, the Jade Sea is really a sea, te Echowald forest isn’t from stone.

Elona: Palawa Joko never got released, and Korna, Istan and Vabbi still stand.

New players would need to know more about the important parts of the lore, and Abaddon is the most important.

No, not really. Those the truly care about the lore can and have read it in the books and the Personal Story (which has TONS of lore related to Abaddon).

However, Abaddon is no more. Period. End of story. We know how he fell to the old God’s, we know that later he was defeated again at the hands of player-characters (and Kormier). Things of his defeat, of his fall, of what happened are KNOWN.

What we know about the reactor is it was a first experimental project by the Inquest to manipulate the Elder Dragon’s minions and magic. This is told throughout lore through the Crucible of Eternity dungeon and personal story. What we do not know is what caused the explosion, which Elder Dragon’s minions were being tested upon, and what possible artifacts related to the Elder Dragons they had stored away. That is more related to GW2 than some 1,000 year dead old human god.

Obsidian.1328:

Thalador

They were never written as anything less than “godly”, and 3 entire games’ worth of content attests to that. If you can’t distinguish between two separate sources we have no common ground to discuss anything. Instead of arguing about what the Six are and their roles, you should be asking the better question of what ANet plans to do with them and why. Their past, along with many other things, has already been altered. What happens to them now is a lot less telling about who the gods are, and a lot more telling about what the writers want you to think about them.

After all, ANet(and NCSoft) is a business first and foremost. Their creative staff has to steer content to the direction their business model wants to go. Obviously they thought adding new cliched player races, dragons, and oodles of theme-park content and items was the way to go to attract more customers. All I ever comment on here is the past…and how it has changed since then. I don’t really care what happens now.

But seriously, if you really think both games share the same lore and spirit, I can’t argue with you. The gods, for all intensive game purposes, and even if ANet brought them back for a brief appearance, are dead.

Dead, dead, dead.

Abaddon, if imagined to be real for a moment, would have been happy he didn’t have to be around in a time when his kind didn’t matter anymore.

I don’t really see how their past have been changed or why they would be "dead. " Their history was elaborated, expanded, and hopefully it’ll continue to expand in an interesting, cohesive, and sensible way.

I cannot deny that the lore and spirit is starting to be steered in the wrong direction in an alarming number of ways, but it’s still not of a catastrophic level yet. I agree, I don’t like the direction we are heading in either, but I still have some hope left. However, if they do continue down on this trek, that trust they’ve built up with three campaigns, one expansion, the BMP, and three fascinating Beyond stories will crumble to nothingness.

Still, I disagree on your view of the gods. Their history hasn’t been altered, but expanded. They are still the most interesting part of lore in my eyes, and I feel what we’ve been teased with is actually compelling. I just hope ANet won’t let us down with failing to tell their tales the proper way… one of the reasons why I’m so much against turning the Fall of Abaddon into a fractal, and not a DLC-length BMP (with BMP cinematics and God of War visuals) about the whole War of the Gods – from the strengthening of the Bloodstone in Arah through Jadoth’s prayer and Doric’s plea to the final battle above the Temple of the Six Gods and the shores of the Crystal Sea.

I don’t need to say anything more, Siphaed sayed all.

Anyway Abaddon being or not being “Part” of gw2 lore, its ancient and dead lore (also already know), not as reactor, that have high potential to show more secrets about elder dragons, or the inquest itself (Both threats that are actually in gw2 world).

Gandarel.5091:

It’s interesting how you call my points speculation while yours is real nonsese.

That was actually my entire point. We can speculate things would go either way.

Gandarel.5091:

You are a traitor to GW1 and lore Go chill out at CoE or the Uncategorized fractal and enjoy your asura dungeons YOU ALREADY HAVE.

You do realize that I just don’t care which side wins, right? Honestly speaking, I’m probably more interested in Evon’s influences in the living story, though I don’t like his personality. This doesn’t make me a traitor. Hell, how can someone be a traitor to a game? You exagurrate.

And to use your argument against you:

You are a traitor to GW2 and lore Go chill out at Elona or the Realm of Torment and enjoy your Abaddon campaign YOU ALREADY HAVE.

Same difference between CoF/UF and Thaumanova fractal as NF and Abaddon fractal.

Gandarel.5091:

Zhaitan got defeated by a mega-laser.. I don’t think he could beat a god face to face. When Zhaitan died, he just fell down. When Abaddon, who was already defeated and a bit powerless, imprisoned in the realm of torment, was killed, his unleashed power was so strong that it could have destroyed 2 worlds.

Zhaitan was starved, blinded, his forces and his corruption annihilated. Read the most recent GuildMag interview, they explain that his appearance in the dungeon is because he was so weakened by the Pact’s actions. And the laser and cannons were specifically designed to be harmful to Zhaitan.

An Elder Dragon that wasn’t weakened could shatter mountains, raise peninsulas, and utterly scar landscapes. It took FIVE gods to do what one Elder Dragon who just woke up did.

Gandarel.5091:

Canthan military could be still ways larger than the Tengu, if we look at the territory itself.

[…]

The charrs without a Khan-Ur agains the humans and their gods would have faced total defeat on the long run if the gods have stayed, and without the titans, the searing couldn’t have happened, nor the invasion, nor the alliance of the legions.

You presume that the Canthans – who were already losing in the Tengu wars and was the reason why Togo initiated peace talks – would have enough military force without the population increase caused by the Jade Wind. No Kurzick or Luxon refugees fleeing north, no Kaineng City. It’s a question in of itself whether or not there would have been a Tengu Wars, but if there were to be then the humans would be at a larger disadvantage than they already were.

And you presume that the gods would remain if they never fought Abaddon. Hell, for all we know magic could still have been gifted with or without Abaddon.

Yes, my post was speculative, but it was to show how speculative yours was. And your response to mine is equally speculative. We can speculate all day long about the repercussions of “no Abaddon” but for all we know we could say “humanity would be dead” or “humanity would be the sole sentient race on the world of Tyria.” It’s an impossible thing to argue. That was the point I was trying to show all along.

Obsidian.1328:

1v1 Ascalonians wtfpwn Charr. Charr strength was in their numbers, not fighting prowess.

Read Sea of Sorrows or Ghosts of Ascalon where it’s outright stated that one charr is worth the fighting strength of seven humans (roughly on my memory). The charr strength wasn’t just in their numbers, but their fighting prowess too.

Obsidian.1328:

The principle defense against the Mursaat, infusion, wasn’t magic related. So no, they wouldn’t have wtfpwnd Kryta.

You presume that Krytans would last long enough to seek the Seer’s aid, which they only got because the dwarves knew of the seer and they only got that because they were forced to flee from the White Mantle. Without Abaddon going bad, the Flameseeker prophecies would never have existed – no Searing, no charr invasion, no White Mantle, no Chosen-to-kill-mursaat. Mursaat have no need of Krytans, so they don’t need to hide in the shadows. Of course, I make the presumption that the mursaat would even care enough to face Krytans – but then again, the entire OP is a presumption as is my response to it (and as said, intentionally so).

Obsidian.1328:

If there was no magic, there’d be no Elder Dragons either. They were written into GW2 lore as devourers of magic, and, by default, to eclipse the human gods as the apex beings of power in Tyria. Can’t have human gods in charge in a game with multiple races ya know.

Baka. Magic exists regardless of Abaddon, however, without Abaddon magic would be stuck in the Bloodstone. The Elder Dragons, which predate the bloodstone and the Six Gods, would exist with magic regardless. Doesn’t matter when or why they were written in.

Obsidian.1328:

You know Konig, if you didn’t answer posts with such scathing rhetoric, your ideas might be a little better received in this community.

just sayin…

Except that my post was meant to be sarcastically hypocritical. It was meant to be with scathing rhetoric. Also:

You know Obsidian, if you didn’t answer posts with such blatant ignoring of GW2 lore, your ideas might be a little better received in this community.

Just saying.

The argument works both ways, my friend.

I hate to burst your “Think you know it” spree; but the lore we’d be getting with the Abbadon Fractal details HOW he fell from being a righteous God. Not the “Fight along side Kormir” bit. Hence “The Fall of Abbadon” Meaning; His fall from the good graces of the other Gods. If you go to the GW2 Wiki is says the Fall of Abaddon Fractal is pre GW1. Let me bold it for you this time: The Fall of Abbadon Fractal is PRE-GW1"

Which means it IS new lore. We’ll be finding out why he fell and for what purpose.

I know what the fractal will be about and it STILL isn’t new lore.

There were pre-NF-release documents detailing the fall of Abaddon released to the Asian communities. Two have been translated (roughly) and are linked to at the bottom of GWW’s Abaddon article. The better of the two translated articles Even without the fractal, we know what happened.

And even then, this is a FRACTAL – Fractals by definition are Mist-created bubbles of the past (so far), and by definition the Mists create imperfect copies. The sPvP and Fractals areas are altered past experiences. What we would see in either Fractal will not be what actually happened.

There’d be new lore, but it’d be 1) untrustworthy and 2) not nearly as much as the Thaumanova reactor. At best, we’ll only see a reskinned Cliffside Fractal’s colossus as Abaddon and we’ll learn what he looked like pre-fall (which is already known somewhat via his GW2 statue).

We already know what happened.

Abaddon gives magic to humans. Magic causes trouble. The gods put a limiter on magic. Abaddon doesn’t like that. 5 gods fight against Abaddon. Most of Abaddon’s body got shattered. Abaddon imprisoned. The Crystal Sea dries up and part of it becomes de Desolation. GW1.

What exactly happened for Thaumanova to be that way? Nobody knows. Only rumors about how the reactor exploded and how “things are never going to be the same”.

Thalador.4218:

Obsidian.1328:

Thalador

They were never written as anything less than “godly”, and 3 entire games’ worth of content attests to that. If you can’t distinguish between two separate sources we have no common ground to discuss anything. Instead of arguing about what the Six are and their roles, you should be asking the better question of what ANet plans to do with them and why. Their past, along with many other things, has already been altered. What happens to them now is a lot less telling about who the gods are, and a lot more telling about what the writers want you to think about them.

After all, ANet(and NCSoft) is a business first and foremost. Their creative staff has to steer content to the direction their business model wants to go. Obviously they thought adding new cliched player races, dragons, and oodles of theme-park content and items was the way to go to attract more customers. All I ever comment on here is the past…and how it has changed since then. I don’t really care what happens now.

But seriously, if you really think both games share the same lore and spirit, I can’t argue with you. The gods, for all intensive game purposes, and even if ANet brought them back for a brief appearance, are dead.

Dead, dead, dead.

Abaddon, if imagined to be real for a moment, would have been happy he didn’t have to be around in a time when his kind didn’t matter anymore.

I don’t really see how their past have been changed or why they would be "dead. " Their history was elaborated, expanded, and hopefully it’ll continue to expand in an interesting, cohesive, and sensible way.

I cannot deny that the lore and spirit is starting to be steered in the wrong direction in an alarming number of ways, but it’s still not of a catastrophic level yet. I agree, I don’t like the direction we are heading in either, but I still have some hope left. However, if they do continue down on this trek, that trust they’ve built up with three campaigns, one expansion, the BMP, and three fascinating Beyond stories will crumble to nothingness.

Still, I disagree on your view of the gods. Their history hasn’t been altered, but expanded. They are still the most interesting part of lore in my eyes, and I feel what we’ve been teased with is actually compelling. I just hope ANet won’t let us down with failing to tell their tales the proper way… one of the reasons why I’m so much against turning the Fall of Abaddon into a fractal, and not a DLC-length BMP (with BMP cinematics and God of War visuals) about the whole War of the Gods – from the strengthening of the Bloodstone in Arah through Jadoth’s prayer and Doric’s plea to the final battle above the Temple of the Six Gods and the shores of the Crystal Sea.

Fair enough, Thalador. It’s certainly your right to stay loyal I guess.

Personally, they’ve just taken waaaay to much liberty with the editing pen for me to stay that way. So I rant about it. The giant hole in DR compels me to.