Guild Wars 2

This voting and the two candidates are nothing more than a social experiment to test players if they would go for the stereotyped figure that represents good or go with the figure that represents evil but offers what you want.

Ellen Kiel
We have the goody good person in the experiment. The one that is timid, has a strong sense of justice and chooses the obvious choices that would be considered ‘good’.
In the ’Master’s audience’ when she’s asked if the people support her. She answers honestly that most probably do. In the trials, she wants to return the goods to their rightful owner rather than keeping it all for herself.
So how do you compensate for a character that would be an obvious pick for most?
Simple, by making several of her key rewards crap. We have the WP cost reduced which frankly, is a load of.. Anyways, then we have the fractal about an Asura failed experiement. While this might end up interesting, it has no solid frame to support it unlike Abbadon that has a backstory to it, a fanbase and a solid frame.

Evon Gnashblade
Next we have Evon. He steals, he bribes, he’s arrogant and he’s greedy. He represents everything that is ‘evil’. He’s already one of the richest persons (charr) and yet he still chooses to keep everything from the trials. In the master’s audience when he’s asked if the people support him, his direct response was ‘Everyone loves me’. Also using his wealth to directly bribe players to vote for him (picture).
He’s the kind of guy that would do ANYTHING to get his way, including killing his own family if he had to and it would benefit him.

While he’s the obvious representation of evil, he offers the better rewards. Cheaper Black Lion keys, Abbadon and so on.

Conclusion
This social experiment is simply to test the human nature. Do we go for the ‘good’ guy which offers crap. Or do we go for the ‘evil’ guy that offers good stuff. Simply put, are you willing to sell your soul to the devil just for your rewards?

The Future
Kiel lacks the funds. But she’s the kind of character that would fight and never give up a cause, while genuine wanting what’s good for all.
Evon.. while people are not worried about the future now. I don’t see anything good in the future with Evon. He’s greedy and will do anything to make more money. If he’s elected, I wouldn’t be surprised if he builds a casino right in the middle of LA.
Not to mention that he’s the kind of guy that would most likely break his promises non stop.

I Understand what you are trying to go for here but I think you are off in quite a few ways.
1) Evon may be greedy, but evil and a murderer of his own family is way across the line.
2) Ellen is ordered to join the council by Magnus the bloody handed, as her superior this may just give Magnus greater control over the council.
3) Greed doesn’t make someone evil, we have seen in the direct support achievements achievements that when looting an aetherblade ship that has crashed there is some grey area. Both groups come upon the downed ship and have to fight to keep the loot they have found while fighting enemies of lions arch. Evon keeps the loot for his campaign while Kiel decides to return the possesions to their “rightful owners” which I don’t know how the hell you would find that out. (ex. if you find a dollar on the street and no one else is around how are you going to find whos it was to return it to them. since we were defending piles of gold similar scenario.)
4) Evon is more of the business man in this situation, he will probably work to make lions arch (and himself) more prosperous. Kiel will probably be more focused on the defense and safety of lions arch. In my opinion this election is similar to a election in our real world where a general, or a war hero would run against a CEO of a major company.

//Sorry for my bad English//

Blackwyn.8127:

Ellen Kiel
We have the goody good person in the experiment. The one that is timid, has a strong sense of justice and chooses the obvious choices that would be considered ‘good’.

She is a goody good terrorist….

Blackwyn.8127:

If he’s elected, I wouldn’t be surprised if he builds a casino right in the middle of LA.

Is this evil?!

Blackwyn.8127:

Conclusion
This social experiment is simply to test the human nature. Do we go for the ‘good’ guy which offers crap. Or do we go for the ‘evil’ guy that offers good stuff. Simply put, are you willing to sell your soul to the devil just for your rewards?

The rewards actually blur the issue rather more than you suggest.

Waypoint/Keys
The reduction in cost of keys is only worthwhile for people that buy the things, now I’m not going to throw imaginary figures about the place but I’m pretty certain that I am not alone in never having bought a key since launch. On the other hand, everyone uses waypoints (except people who play exclusively PvP/WvW for whom all this is largely academic anyway) so that will be the default preference if you aren’t a fan of RNG boxes.

Abaddon/Thaumanova
This choice again isn’t as straightforward as you might think, those of us who didn’t play/enjoy GW1 have no incentive at all to choose the Fall of Abaddon (even to those of us who have actually taken something of an interest in Tyrian lore) as it either doesn’t matter or doesn’t have many questions associated with it. The Thaumanova Reactor incident, on the other hand, is probably more interesting for those whose primary experience of Tyria is GW2 and for whom the Inquest experiments into Thaumaturgy (which possibly also impacts on bloodstones and true magic … we don’t know) is a more engaging (and relevant) story.

Conclusion
Perhaps it’s just me being contrary but although my first inclination would be to vote for Gnashblade (purely on the basis that he’s a charr and they are, by default, more interesting than humans) I’m actually supporting Kiel because of the rewards she offers.

Blackwyn.8127:

The one that is timid, has a strong sense of justice and chooses the obvious choices that would be considered ‘good’.

I wouldn’t call Ellen timid. A timid person wouldn’t have become captain of the Lionguard and wouldn’t regularly go into gutwrencthing combat.

As for Evon; he’s a business man and he’s using all the resources at his disposal to accomplish his goal. I fail to see how that’s evil.

Then again, concepts like “good” and “evil” are only opinions anyway.

Barabbas.8715:

Then again, concepts like “good” and “evil” are only opinions anyway.

As is the opinion that they’re opinions. :P

But yeah, I would describe Evon as greedy, arrogant. Unlikable, even. But there is certainly no basis to think he’d kill his family (warband? business partner? w/e).

Its a choice between good and evil, but there are degrees of both. Evon’s behavior is not grave enough to lump him in the category the OP is putting him in.

Infamous Darkness.3284:

Evon keeps the loot for his campaign while Kiel decides to return the possesions to their “rightful owners” which I don’t know how the hell you would find that out. (ex. if you find a dollar on the street and no one else is around how are you going to find whos it was to return it to them. since we were defending piles of gold similar scenario.)

I thought it was implied that the Aetherblades stole that gold, and w/e supplies there were on that ship, from the merchants up at the Sanctum dock? As a result of the raids they’ve been pulling?

If so, we know who it belongs to. How much each merchant is missing and needs returned wouldn’t be that hard to determine.

Or you could look at it from the POV of which do you think will make a more interesting story/exciting game. Fighting a god sounds more fun than another reactor gone haywire to me. My voting for Evon doesn’t mean I wanna give him huggles. I figure at some point we may get to smash his face in.

Personally, I don’t care too much who wins though.

Yeah the rewards add more nuance to the choice, but I think the op’s question there was if you will let the potential benefit to you (getting the fractal you like) allow you to overlook the bad behavior and moral character of the guy offering it.

Its hardly an accurate social experiment b/c any negative consequences resulting from picking the “evil” candidate won’t be real and we know it. Also, I have hope Evon has some kind of depth to him and isn’t just the “what you see is what you get”, cardboard cutout, stereotype of an evil business man. So i’m hoping the evil is just for show or he’ll have a bit of a Tony Stark turn around. Minus the suit. (Or with it, maybe. That could be cool. lol)

Would have preferred to have two candidates on more equal moral ground, personally. Or really, just have left Kiel as the good cop-crusader she is, but have given Evon more depth. As it stands right now, though, its clearly a choice btwn two sets of ethics. If you are basing your choice on the fractals/potential story in the future and ignoring the candidate’s ethics, that’s a part of the overall “experiment” too.

Don’t hang yourself up on the ‘kill his family’ thing, it’s just an expression.
Although if there was 10,000g on one end and his family on the other and you could only save one. I think he would go for the gold :P

Blackwyn.8127:

Don’t hang yourself up on the ‘kill his family’ thing, it’s just an expression.
Although if there was 10,000g on one end and his family on the other and you could only save one. I think he would go for the gold :P

You don’t like him. We get it. :P

Alleluia.1320:

If so, we know who it belongs to. How much each merchant is missing and needs returned wouldn’t be that hard to determine.

yeah, we’ll just ask them…
Ironically, most of this may be even Evon’s (directly or indirectly).

Also – is there a reason to make a thread that is almost identical (includng the title) to an already existing one? ( https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/livingworld/cutthroat/Interesting-Case-Study )

Astralporing.1957:

Alleluia.1320:

If so, we know who it belongs to. How much each merchant is missing and needs returned wouldn’t be that hard to determine.

yeah, we’ll just ask them…
Ironically, most of this may be even Evon’s (directly or indirectly).

Didn’t say it was a perfect solution. :P But they likely have ledgers that can be checked. Point is, there’s a viable way to at least attempt to get it back to the original owners. Its not an abandoned dollar on a deserted street corner. We know who took it and who they probably took it from.

Astralporing.1957:

Also – is there a reason to make a thread that is almost identical (includng the title) to an already existing one? ( https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/livingworld/cutthroat/Interesting-Case-Study )

Fair point. Thread merge?

Actually, we don’t. As soon as she announces that she’s returning the money, she will see that the number of money lost heavily outweights the number of money reclaimed (for a many reasons, both legitimate and more shady). Also, lot of people that lost their money will never get any of it back (some because they are no longer in LA. Some, because they died). The end result may be a good propaganda, but is unlikely to be anything more.
And as for the ledgers… what honest smuggler keeps ledgers???

I honestly don’t understand the attempts at comparing this to a social experiment………it just doesn’t work. And even if it was, it would be a hilarious crappy experiment full of holes making any data from it worthless.

Trying to fit a square peg into a round whole as they say.

Astralporing.1957:

Actually, we don’t. As soon as she announces that she’s returning the money, she will see that the number of money lost heavily outweights the number of money reclaimed (for a many reasons, both legitimate and more shady). Also, lot of people that lost their money will never get any of it back (some because they are no longer in LA. Some, because they died). The end result may be a good propaganda, but is unlikely to be anything more.
And as for the ledgers… what honest smuggler keeps ledgers???

I’d bet the sylvari guy does keep a ledger, but he’s probably new. lol

I know it won’t be the exact amount the merchants lost, but it can be haggled over and divided up. The logistics being difficult doesn’t mean the money is her’s to keep. There’s enough to go on to get it back to the people who lost it. The good choice there is to do so, annoying logistics concerns be kittened.

Blackwyn.8127:

Conclusion
This social experiment is simply to test the human nature. Do we go for the ‘good’ guy which offers crap. Or do we go for the ‘evil’ guy that offers good stuff. Simply put, are you willing to sell your soul to the devil just for your rewards?

Not really an effective “social experiment”. This is only a game, and unless you take how the story unfolds for these characters very seriously, it won’t effect you much one way or another. I think Evon is the more interesting character, but I’m not voting for him simply because I’m not interested in buying black lion keys.

Either way, you are hardly “selling your soul”. : P

Blackwyn.8127:

Evon.. while people are not worried about the future now. I don’t see anything good in the future with Evon. He’s greedy and will do anything to make more money. If he’s elected, I wouldn’t be surprised if he builds a casino right in the middle of LA.
Not to mention that he’s the kind of guy that would most likely break his promises non stop.

I just want to point out that there is already a casino in the middle of LA. His name is Zommoros.

Unless you are making your decisions on a coin flip or some sort of random third party decision making, your own personal experiences will influence your outlook on what is an acceptable decision.

So since these are decision that we are making as individuals and we all have a different outlook on the scenarios, then yes this is a social experiment.

It is just a game, but you are a person driving those decisions within the game.

There won’t be any real consequences for any of our decisions, so we can take this as a pass to do what we want. Now the question comes up, is doing what you want really what you would do deep down, but social norms stop you?

There is a motivator behind every decision, which leads us to expect a positive outcome. Unless you are a masochist, but then the positive outcome is the bad :p

So now that you realize that you are making decisions, are you happy with your choice? or does something bother you? If something bothers you, then you are doing the opposite of what you would do in the real world, and this is a safe place to do that without suffering backlash.

If it doesn’t bother you, then that is acceptable, either for kiel or gnashblade, that is what you align yourself with naturally, so they are compatible with your own ideals.

This in no way holds true for me, because I support Evon in game, but if it came to real world problems, real politics, I would not vote for a character such as Evon with the information we as voters have now. But this is a video game, and going for excitement is far better

CMF.5461:

Unless you are making your decisions on a coin flip or some sort of random third party decision making, your own personal experiences will influence your outlook on what is an acceptable decision.

So since these are decision that we are making as individuals and we all have a different outlook on the scenarios, then yes this is a social experiment.

It is just a game, but you are a person driving those decisions within the game.

There won’t be any real consequences for any of our decisions, so we can take this as a pass to do what we want. Now the question comes up, is doing what you want really what you would do deep down, but social norms stop you?

There is a motivator behind every decision, which leads us to expect a positive outcome. Unless you are a masochist, but then the positive outcome is the bad :p

So now that you realize that you are making decisions, are you happy with your choice? or does something bother you? If something bothers you, then you are doing the opposite of what you would do in the real world, and this is a safe place to do that without suffering backlash.

If it doesn’t bother you, then that is acceptable, either for kiel or gnashblade, that is what you align yourself with naturally, so they are compatible with your own ideals.

Nonsense! When you read a book, you generally want there to be a villain (or at least some sort of obstacle that needs to be overcome). If it’s all a bunch of goody-goody heroes with nothing to do, it gets boring quite fast. Does that mean that I want there to be a bunch of villains sending trouble my way in real life? No! Certainly not. You cannot compare choices you make in a game to choices you would make in real life, because they simply aren’t compatible.

I’ve played RP games previously where my character was a psychotic murderer. Does that mean I would choose to go out and murder people if I thought there would be no consequences? Hell no.

Blackwyn.8127:

Don’t hang yourself up on the ‘kill his family’ thing, it’s just an expression.
Although if there was 10,000g on one end and his family on the other and you could only save one. I think he would go for the gold :P

Well, do we know his family? Maybe not saving them isn’t even such a bad idea.

LameFox.6349:

Blackwyn.8127:

Don’t hang yourself up on the ‘kill his family’ thing, it’s just an expression.
Although if there was 10,000g on one end and his family on the other and you could only save one. I think he would go for the gold :P

Well, do we know his family? Maybe not saving them isn’t even such a bad idea.

Haha Indeed. This is a valid consideration. XD

Bad comparison with the reading a book and villains.

When you are reading the book, you are passively following along with the story. Typically you have the bad guys who put up a fight and the good guys struggle to survive and overcome the challenges.

Your decision making didn’t come into play there.

Now if you were rooting for the bad guys in the book, then that would more closely represent this events scenario.

We are watching as good and evil face off, some people are rooting for evil and some are rooting for good. We will have to follow the story to see what happens.

To make it clear, I don’t think evon gnashblade is “evil” but he is simply selfish. Although he does personify the opposition to the scripted “hero” which is kiel.

Also, I have played RP characters in other games who personify evil, and while I find it difficult sometimes to play into the role, I do so. Everquest I had a necro, SWTOR I had a sith, and WoW I had a few undead. When I play my evil characters I select evil choices in chat and I won’t restrain from PKing someone.

When I play my good characters I will never strike first and only defend myself or others.

I do align myself with the “goody goodies” more than my evil characters though, because it feels more natural for me to act in character.

I dont know what you’re saying. I want the thaumanova reactor fractal and I don’t buy keys since RNGs hate me. Kiel has everything I want between her and Evon.

CMF.5461:

Bad comparison with the reading a book and villains.

When you are reading the book, you are passively following along with the story. Typically you have the bad guys who put up a fight and the good guys struggle to survive and overcome the challenges.

A book is certainly an apt comparison! Why? Just as I don’t want to read a book without a villain/obstacle, I don’t want to play an RP game without a villain/obstacle.

Comparing your choices in a video game to your choices in real life, however, is impossible. The two are fundamentally different concepts, and don’t connect with each other in any useful manner. If I choose to make “evil” choices in the video game, it doesn’t mean I would want to make the same choices in real life (even if I thought I could get away with it). The “evil” choices that you make here don’t negatively effect anyone. Not yourself, not others. It only changes the path of the fictional story. A video game, much like a book, is a way of exploring other possibilities, a way of immersing yourself in an entirely different world and traveling routes you normally wouldn’t, or couldn’t, in your daily life.

This election is not a social experiment, and cannot be construed as one.

CMF.5461:

There won’t be any real consequences for any of our decisions, so we can take this as a pass to do what we want. Now the question comes up, is doing what you want really what you would do deep down, but social norms stop you?

I feel like this is missing:

c) the effects of my decisions actually affect whether or not I want those things to happen, not just whether or not I’m willing to risk making them happen.

Or that could just be me, either way.

As I said, the book does not require you to make a decision to try to impact the story. The bad guys do what bad guys do and the good guys do what the good guys do, you just watch and observe.

I did not say that villains have no place in a book or a game, I was directing the attention to why are we motivated to like or dislike certain characters within those stories and games.

Many people are voting for evon because they think he is more interesting the keil, even if “evil”, fair enough.

Some people are voting for evon because they like what he offers (cheaper prices on the BLTC and a fractal that they are interested in).

Others may be voting for evon because they don’t see anything wrong with what he does and agree with the fictional characters decision making.

Choices made in a video game with NPCs do not typically effect anyone at all. BUT, an online game has many different interactions that continue on with real people that invoke real emotions and thought.

By proxy, some people may be upset of a certain candidate wins over another. Now they will not have as strong of a reaction as they might have if this were a real election with real people, but you put stake into one of these candidates and effort towards helping them win because you choose “that” side. If your side loses, in some way people may view that as “they” lost as well.

I am fairly sure the bulk majority of people don’t “REALLY” care, and it is just a game.

But taking a deeper look into societal interactions can be interesting.

There actually have been quite a few studies on MMO video games and human interactions. As well as the media interest in online bullying and various social media networks.

Just go search up sociological interactions in online video games
or something to that effect and you can find all sorts of abstracts and dissertations. Now which ones are valid or not, is up to you.

This game is, in essence just a chat room. It is a social gathering in a digital world. They just gave us things to do in this world so we can do more than just chat with each other.

^As far as experiments go this seems like ‘if I poke this, will the sensation be pleasant, painful, or indifferent?’.

AFAIK they’re not exactly swimming in ways to reliably measure our emotional response to anything, unless some limited in-game communication with staff and masses of forum whining/celebration are considered reliable.

CMF.5461:

As I said, the book does not require you to make a decision to try to impact the story. The bad guys do what bad guys do and the good guys do what the good guys do, you just watch and observe.

I did not say that villains have no place in a book or a game, I was directing the attention to why are we motivated to like or dislike certain characters within those stories and games.

Many people are voting for evon because they think he is more interesting the keil, even if “evil”, fair enough.

Some people are voting for evon because they like what he offers (cheaper prices on the BLTC and a fractal that they are interested in).

Others may be voting for evon because they don’t see anything wrong with what he does and agree with the fictional characters decision making.

Choices made in a video game with NPCs do not typically effect anyone at all. BUT, an online game has many different interactions that continue on with real people that invoke real emotions and thought.

By proxy, some people may be upset of a certain candidate wins over another. Now they will not have as strong of a reaction as they might have if this were a real election with real people, but you put stake into one of these candidates and effort towards helping them win because you choose “that” side. If your side loses, in some way people may view that as “they” lost as well.

I am fairly sure the bulk majority of people don’t “REALLY” care, and it is just a game.

But taking a deeper look into societal interactions can be interesting.

There actually have been quite a few studies on MMO video games and human interactions. As well as the media interest in online bullying and various social media networks.

Just go search up sociological interactions in online video games
or something to that effect and you can find all sorts of abstracts and dissertations. Now which ones are valid or not, is up to you.

This game is, in essence just a chat room. It is a social gathering in a digital world. They just gave us things to do in this world so we can do more than just chat with each other.

Sure thing. I am not saying that there aren’t a lot of social interactions and psychological things going on in this game. I’m saying that you can’t compare the choices we make in a video game (i.e. whether we vote for Kiel or Evon) to our moral compasses in real life. There is no connection. For most rational people, we understand that this is just a game, and that it effects no one and nothing negatively. The same with in a book. (If I were given the choice to remove the villain from a book, I wouldn’t do it – does that mean that I am evil at my core? Nope.)

If there are people, however, who do take these characters and this storyline extremely serious, who are overly invested in their characters, and who weigh the choice of their vote deeply, and who do believe that it truly matters, and that it will effect them negatively if they lose… Well, that’s there business. But as far as the general populace goes, this election cannot be considered a “social experiment”. It isn’t.

CaitlinJF.1720:

CMF.5461:

As I said, the book does not require you to make a decision to try to impact the story. The bad guys do what bad guys do and the good guys do what the good guys do, you just watch and observe.

I did not say that villains have no place in a book or a game, I was directing the attention to why are we motivated to like or dislike certain characters within those stories and games.

Many people are voting for evon because they think he is more interesting the keil, even if “evil”, fair enough.

Some people are voting for evon because they like what he offers (cheaper prices on the BLTC and a fractal that they are interested in).

Others may be voting for evon because they don’t see anything wrong with what he does and agree with the fictional characters decision making.

Choices made in a video game with NPCs do not typically effect anyone at all. BUT, an online game has many different interactions that continue on with real people that invoke real emotions and thought.

By proxy, some people may be upset of a certain candidate wins over another. Now they will not have as strong of a reaction as they might have if this were a real election with real people, but you put stake into one of these candidates and effort towards helping them win because you choose “that” side. If your side loses, in some way people may view that as “they” lost as well.

I am fairly sure the bulk majority of people don’t “REALLY” care, and it is just a game.

But taking a deeper look into societal interactions can be interesting.

There actually have been quite a few studies on MMO video games and human interactions. As well as the media interest in online bullying and various social media networks.

Just go search up sociological interactions in online video games
or something to that effect and you can find all sorts of abstracts and dissertations. Now which ones are valid or not, is up to you.

This game is, in essence just a chat room. It is a social gathering in a digital world. They just gave us things to do in this world so we can do more than just chat with each other.

Sure thing. I am not saying that there aren’t a lot of social interactions and psychological things going on in this game. I’m saying that you can’t compare the choices we make in a video game (i.e. whether we vote for Kiel or Evon) to our moral compasses in real life. There is no connection. For most rational people, we understand that this is just a game, and that it effects no one and nothing negatively. The same with in a book. (If I were given the choice to remove the villain from a book, I wouldn’t do it – does that mean that I am evil at my core? Nope.)

If there are people, however, who do take these characters and this storyline extremely serious, who are overly invested in their characters, and who weigh the choice of their vote deeply, and who do believe that it truly matters, and that it will effect them negatively if they lose… Well, that’s there business. But as far as the general populace goes, this election cannot be considered a “social experiment”. It isn’t.

Exactly, and thus I will vote for the EVIL VILLAIN EVON as some have labeled him.

Let there be RNG!

OP: that’s an interesting post. For real life: go for Kiel, for a game: doesn’t matter.
In contrast, I think “greed is the root of all evils”.

am i the only one that thinks kiel has her own agenda?

at least gnashblade is honest about caring only about the money =)

Here’s my two cents.
I think this isn’t about good and evil – about right or wrong or about the characters themselves.

I think Anet is trying ( or also trying on top of other things stated above) to determine which direction to go : Give us more GW1 related lore or more GW2 related lore. GW2 lore is boring. And so are the asura – personal opinion. More GW1 please.

Casino in LA? Yes please. Endless joy of RNG.
No, really, no sarcasm. I’d love it!

Nick.6972:

Casino in LA? Yes please. Endless joy of RNG.
No, really, no sarcasm. I’d love it!

The mother of all slots is right at your fingertips

MYSTIC FORGE!

What changed my mind about Kiel was staying around after the Candidate Trial and listening to what she had to say. I was surprised to say the least. I had felt she was pushing the noble for the people bit at the beginning but showed her true colors once the treasure was saved. Obviously a true pirate at heart.

At least Evon is up front about what he is doing which may be a Char trait anyway.

Overall not feeling any more emotional about one or the other overall… Each has good or bad points to them. Kiel is a lot more attractive than Evon physically and I wonder how that plays into people’s decision on whether they like or dislike either one. Obviously their personalities and how they are able to present themselves do.

I wish we could put the support tickets (scraps or any other trophy stuffies) in the Mystic Forge, though, and get something REALLY interesting.

Kiel, might have a good moral, but she also seems stupid. Good or evil aside, which doesn’t matter in a game, Evon seems to be a more interesting character.

I’m not sure it will work. I’m after Evon because he is a cat. I don’t give a flying fudge about black lion keys, wp costs or which fractal I get – I will be fine with any of them.

I don’t think Kiel is quite as spotless as you make her out to be. The ship that Kiel was given in order to let her to act as a “Captain” (since you need to be a captain to be on the captain’s council, obviously) was stolen from the Aetherblades, who originally stole it from the Pact.

She doesn’t seem to have any problem using a stolen pirate airship to run for council instead of returning it. I don’t see how Evon wanting to keep stolen loot from the Aetherblade pirates who no doubt stole it in the first place is any worse.

And regardless, the Captain’s Council is a council of pirates. Sure, they might run a trade city and throw fun holiday events, but at the end of the day they’re all still pirates. So I don’t see any problem with the candidates acting like pirates while trying to get a seat on the council of pirates.

Catseses are always independent, free thinkers and amoral. One thing they are is up front and in your face. A cat will knock over the pots on the window sill while looking right at you, lol.

It is a pirate realm and may the best pirate win!

Cept the fact he cares far more for the city then Kiel ever has and was putting his life on the line for it a long time ago.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/short-story-evon-gnashblade-disembarks/

On the social experiment context:

If this is the case, it does have the big flaw in that, as shown by posts in this thread, there are people voting for Evon because he’s the ‘bad guy’ and they think the Living Story will be more interesting with a potential villain put into power by their actions. One sincerely hopes that in the real world, most of them would not vote by that thinking.

Personally, I think there are enough villains already in Tyria and the surrounding areas to make for interesting antagonists and would rather see the stories deal with them rather than a villain that we ourselves put into power, knowingly or otherwise. If people want to see corrupt politician shenanigans, what they should really be doing is pushing for more Living Story involving the Arcane Council or the Ministry.

@InfamousDarkness:

To point 2: I don’t think it’s necessarily a problem that Ellen would essentially be on the council as an ally of Magnus. In fact, that makes it more likely that the election will make a difference – what we know of Magnus suggests that he’s focused on the fight against the Elder Dragons and disliked the situation on Southsun. Yes, it’s likely that the two will agree on a lot of things, but strengthening Magnus’ side of politics may be what allows them to make a difference.

To point 4: Evon will be focused on making himself more prosperous. This may involve making Lion’s Arch more prosperous, or he may focus on using his power to destroy his competition and generally result in everyone but him being less well off.

@KorKor: Putting aside the hyperbole about Evon caring “far more” when we don’t really have any suitable yardstick for comparative measurement, Evon’s story doesn’t necessarily establish that he cares for Lion’s Arch. It establishes that he’s aware that the people of Lion’s Arch are unlikely to knuckle under whatever intimidation tactics his former legionnaire was proposing. His motivation – altruism or simple practicality – is not made as clear as you seem to think.

Infamous Darkness.3284:

1) Evon may be greedy, but evil and a murderer of his own family is way across the line.

Alleluia.1320:

But yeah, I would describe Evon as greedy, arrogant. Unlikable, even. But there is certainly no basis to think he’d kill his family (warband? business partner? w/e).

Its a choice between good and evil, but there are degrees of both. Evon’s behavior is not grave enough to lump him in the category the OP is putting him in.

Umm, yeah there is basis. Evon disobeyed an order from his legionnaire, killed her, then assumed her position as legionnaire.

Everyone who thinks that setting Evon as a murderer as going too far, it has already been written that he staged a coup and killed his legionnaire

With a quick double-step, he put his body inside his legionnaire’s reach and blocked the sword swipe. With his free hand, he latched onto one of Gnashfang’s horns, pulled downward and stepped back, putting his own weight into the move. Then, he drove his dagger deep into Gnashfang’s neck and jerked it out along the spine.
The sound of the sword clattering to the stone floor freed the Gnash warband from their shock, and they rushed to pull Evon off their legionnaire.
Evon stepped back and watched as they lowered Gnashfang to the ground, knowing full well that it was too late to save her. He waited, blood dripping down the blade of his dagger onto his hand.
When the others finally turned to look at him, he stood his ground.
“I’m legionnaire now,” he said. “You’ll do as I say, or join Gnashfang in the Mists. Any arguments?”

Evon Gnashblade is by no means evil.

It is plain as day he genuinely cares for LA and he’s done more then anyone personally and openly to help LA become the center of trade and commerce it is today.

You can’t speak ill of a guy who goes against his own fellows to do the right thing, and you don’t make LA the center of international commerce over night.

OP’s moral compass is broken.

Xiao Haishou.3691:

Umm, yeah there is basis. Evon disobeyed an order from his legionnaire, killed her, then assumed her position as legionnaire.

Everyone who thinks that setting Evon as a murderer as going too far, it has already been written that he staged a coup and killed his legionnaire

No, there isn’t and no they didn’t. You leave out key details from the short story to give that idea.

Evon never staged a coup. It happened spontaneously. His legionnaire went batkitten insane at the prospect that Evon would even dare question her course.

Being that she probably grew up with Evon the way she responds to his calm respectful suggestion is very cold, even for a charr.

She was not impressed with him, and Evon protesting was the straw that broke the camels back.

CETheLucid.3964:

Evon Gnashblade is by no means evil.

It is plain as day he genuinely cares for LA and he’s done more then anyone personally and openly to help LA become the center of trade and commerce it is today.

You can’t speak ill of a guy who goes against his own fellows to do the right thing, and you don’t make LA the center of international commerce over night.

OP’s moral compass is broken.

Xiao Haishou.3691:

Umm, yeah there is basis. Evon disobeyed an order from his legionnaire, killed her, then assumed her position as legionnaire.

Everyone who thinks that setting Evon as a murderer as going too far, it has already been written that he staged a coup and killed his legionnaire

No, there isn’t and no they didn’t. You leave out key details from the short story to give that idea.

Evon never staged a coup. It happened spontaneously. His legionnaire went batkitten insane at the prospect that Evon would even dare question her course.

Being that she probably grew up with Evon the way she responds to his calm respectful suggestion is very cold, even for a charr.

She was not impressed with him, and Evon protesting was the straw that broke the camels back.

She said "Get out of my sight before I change my mind about letting you leave alive.”

Evon was the one who continued to press on afterwards.

… the one thing that never entered his mind was doubt. He made his decision about how to proceed.

…

As he spoke, the vein in his neck began to pound. His arms relaxed at his sides, hand touching the hilt of his dagger. His awareness expanded; his peripheral vision broadened.

He had made his decision before he started speaking again, and after the legionnaire threatened him. He was at the ready as he was speaking and he “expanded his awareness” to take his legionnaire by surprise and kill her.

To be honest, I really think sometimes you take ‘nice’ at face value. There are psychopaths who came across as nice and charming initially.

Gnash isn’t evil……..if you think so then you need a new definition of what evil actually means. He’s morally questionable perhaps, but then this is a game, and in a game I vote for who I find the most FUNNY and INTERESTING.

i think people who make this vote about more than it really is are so stupid

do you want abbadon or some reactor? nothing else matters just pick one and vote dont go into some ridiculous blah blah rant about the “character” of the stupid ficitonal people its ridiculous

Xiao Haishou.3691:

He had made his decision before he started speaking again, and after the legionnaire threatened him. He was at the ready as he was speaking and he “expanded his awareness” to take his legionnaire by surprise and kill her.

Of course, if you want to disagree with someone you strongly suspect will kill you for it, it makes sense to be prepared to deal with that. It was a verbal confrontation he had been continuing until she swung a sword at his head.

In either case, under the circumstances I suspect ‘murder’ is simply hyperbolic. Considering the option is available to players who get in all of zero trouble for it, we can probably assume it’s not necessarily considered illegal in charr culture, in a similar way to how the human noble player kills Minister Zamon after he envokes a right to trial by combat. In what I consider to be one of the game’s more amusing moments, Logan Thackeray volunteers (with no more than the proper display of enthusiasm, of course) to help. If you sit a while outside the gates of the Black Citadel (in Ashford, not Diessa) you can even catch a conversation where a NPC charr explains that she killed her legionnaire – and replaced him in the role – after he shot her during an argument. You’ll have to follow them though for the full conversation as they path for a while.

Did none of you play a charr? I don’t like the charr and I still played it. It’s acceptable in charr culture to kill your legionnaire and take their place.

Ellen Kiel threatens players on occasion when talked to, and we’re talking about how Evon is evil?