Guild Wars 2

Ever since the hologram projectors made their appearance yesterday, I’ve been seeing a lot of high level players running around in low level zones using speed buffs and aoes to burn down the hologram mobs with no thought to the people around them. It’s happened to me, and I’m guilty of doing it to others. So in an effort to keep this event fun for everyone I thought I’d point out a few things.

Feel free to contribute your own rules of Courtesy.

1.) There is no rush. If you reach a hologram projector and see someone else running your way, wait for them to reach the projector before you activate it. There’s no reason to hog the mobs.

2.) Everyone gets their own loot. So if you’re a high level character in a lower level zone and there are other people near the projector waiting to take a stab at what comes out, resist the urge to use your high-damage AoE abilities. One shotting the group may get you on the road to your next projector faster, but if no one else was able to damage them, no one else gets any loot.

3.) Help people clear normal mobs, especially if the mob/player is almost dead. If you and another person clear a projector but wind up pulling a non-event mob, help them kill it instead of moving on to the next projector and leaving them behind to deal with it themselves, especially if you are a high level and they are a lower level.

4.) Don’t steal projectors. If you see a lower level player clearing out a group of non-event mobs around a projector, it’s safe to assume that they intend to activate it once the area isn’t so croweded. It is incredibly poor form to activate the node while the other player is busy fighting Ettins, letting them do all the work while you reap all the reward. Instead of taking advantage of the situation, take a few seconds to lend a hand and help them clear out the mobs keeping them from the projector.

5.) Remember that projectors spawn quickly. It’s okay if you miss out on one because you took a few seconds to help out someone else instead of steamroll over them. Just pull up your map, find a new location and head there instead.

6.) If you have no intention of showing other players any courtesy and have an ‘Every man for himself’ mentality, then at least leave the lower level zones and farm mobs your level. Not only will you be giving lower levels a chance to farm their own holograms, but there are typically fewer people competing for kills in the higher level areas.

Or you know, they just can make them instanced for every player.
Do not blame the players for their playstyle (as annoying as it is for you), blame the game mechanics.

Funset.7893:

Or you know, they just can make them instanced for every player.
Do not blame the players for their playstyle (as annoying as it is for you), blame the game mechanics.

The game mechanics are what they are, but there’s no reason to screw over other players when it takes a few seconds longer not to.

Valena.5160:

Funset.7893:

Or you know, they just can make them instanced for every player.
Do not blame the players for their playstyle (as annoying as it is for you), blame the game mechanics.

The game mechanics are what they are, but there’s no reason to screw over other players when it takes a few seconds longer not to.

Oh really? Well today I was good enough to wait for 2 other palyers in a low level map (I was first tot he holoprojector). When we activated the holoprojector, the warrior rushed through the mobs and killed them instantly.

Again, why should I follow your miniguide?

Funset.7893:

Valena.5160:

Funset.7893:

Or you know, they just can make them instanced for every player.
Do not blame the players for their playstyle (as annoying as it is for you), blame the game mechanics.

The game mechanics are what they are, but there’s no reason to screw over other players when it takes a few seconds longer not to.

Oh really? Well today I was good enough to wait for 2 other palyers in a low level map (I was first tot he holoprojector). When we activated the holoprojector, the warrior rushed through the mobs and killed them instantly.

Again, why should I follow your miniguide?

Drop a tagskill beforehand.

What I do is if I see someone else, I’ll drop Radiation Field below where they spawn. This does enough damage to tag all the mobs but will not kill any mob by itself (even for the full duration). This ensures that other players get an opportunity to tag mobs at their own pace, especially at low levels (since it applies poison and weakness to help them survive).

Funset.7893:

Valena.5160:

Funset.7893:

Or you know, they just can make them instanced for every player.
Do not blame the players for their playstyle (as annoying as it is for you), blame the game mechanics.

The game mechanics are what they are, but there’s no reason to screw over other players when it takes a few seconds longer not to.

Oh really? Well today I was good enough to wait for 2 other palyers in a low level map (I was first tot he holoprojector). When we activated the holoprojector, the warrior rushed through the mobs and killed them instantly.

Again, why should I follow your miniguide?

Because you’re better than that warrior, aren’t you? If not then kindly redirect yourself to another thread. I’m not going to argue the merits of etiquette and courtesy with anyone. Either follow it or don’t. That’s all there is to it.

Sorry but it’s every man for himself,lol. Nobody waits for me on those things so why should I wait for them? Plus, I usually don’t get credit for the kills if I let someone else come over so…no deal kiddo, just going to keep killing them as fast as I can.

You have to AoE the mobs to get all the tags, you can’t expect people to kill slowly or single target. High level players should just go to lvl 80 maps as they’re less crowded, I was farming coffers in Frostgorge Sound and there was far less competition there. It was ruthless though, speed farming akin to COF1. I actually enjoyed the competition to be honest, it was an all out battle for the coffers.

or you know, be nice for a while, and get screwed over, and join the real world, where people rush in and grab what they can and who cares about any one else.

Anything else is just asking to lose out to people who dont play by your rules.

BlueSoda.6297:

Sorry but it’s every man for himself,lol. Nobody waits for me on those things so why should I wait for them? Plus, I usually don’t get credit for the kills if I let someone else come over so…no deal kiddo, just going to keep killing them as fast as I can.

So, screw them because they’re going to screw me, but not if I screw them first.

Good job, Anet. This is what your game has become.

Llama I think you’re blowing things out of proportion, it’s just a game. I’m not a bad person because I play competitively, and it’s not bad for the game either.

Funset.7893:

Or you know, they just can make them instanced for every player.
Do not blame the players for their playstyle (as annoying as it is for you), blame the game mechanics.

Exactly. The thing I love most about this game is its attitude towards co-operative play. Never before have I -not- been happy to see other players in a zone. If I wanted to camp, I’d get off my computer and go outside. And considering pretty much everything else in this game works in the exact opposite way these holograms do, I really don’t understand how this happened. I don’t have to compete for ore nodes, trees, or herbs. I don’t have to tag a mob first to loot it. Whoever designed this needs to be reminded of these facts. Now I’m not gonna quit playing, etc., but this is the first time I’ve been really disappointed in this game, at least enough to come rant on the forums.

BlueSoda.6297:

Llama I think you’re blowing things out of proportion, it’s just a game. I’m not a bad person because I play competitively, and it’s not bad for the game either.

I’ll admit to venting some of my frustration towards Anet in that last post and their recent decisions, but I do think that’s exactly the mindset that’s being encouraged with the way the projectors are setup now. That it isn’t cooperative play that’s encouraged is just sad.

Not saying that you are the bad person here, but I don’t like the way you’ve been led to think you have to behave in these circumstances.

Not sure how people at low level map are doing, as I give up because they disappear way too fast.

High level maps aren’t much better, I tried to be nice a few times but it never turn out that well, lots people aoe tag the holograms and just run to the next one(not even sure they pick up the loot), leave me to deal with 3~4 mobs they pulled while making the mad dash.

ps. I think Daemon sums up nicely, “ruthless” is the right word.

Llama.9623:

BlueSoda.6297:

Llama I think you’re blowing things out of proportion, it’s just a game. I’m not a bad person because I play competitively, and it’s not bad for the game either.

I’ll admit to venting some of my frustration towards Anet in that last post and their recent decisions, but I do think that’s exactly the mindset that’s being encouraged with the way the projectors are setup now. That it isn’t cooperative play that’s encouraged is just sad.

Not saying that you are the bad person here, but I don’t like the way you’ve been led to think you have to behave in these circumstances.

I agree with you that this is a bad mindset to have, and I don’t like it, but I was just saying it’s the reality of the game. I do wish these holo’s were like the gathering nodes, would make things easier. But in the mean time as I said, not going to play around and let others take the kills I could have just to “be nice”.

Honestly, I spent 2 hours and finished the achievement. I was in a low level starter zone and I was running circles with 5 projectors. If I saw anyone on my minimap, I would wait while tagging everything. If I didn’t see anyone, I would kill it and move on.

Sigils of Speed were very helpful.

Also, since I am an Asura Mesmer, running Radiation Field + Blink + Portal Entre was very useful. It sounds like an awkward and terrible combination, but with 100% swiftness from Sigil of Speed, I was able to combo Blink to move ridiculously fast. Radiation Field was for tagging if there were multiple people (doesn’t do a lot of AoE damage, but tags so it won’t ks everything).

Portal Entre is good if you know a Holo is about to spawn and the next one in your path has already spawned (they have a randomizer on their spawn, so it happens) to drop it, go to the next Holo, then come back real quick so nobody can steal it from you.

With a speedy build like that, you can afford to be generous when you see people, but most people won’t follow you, so you can be greedy when nobody is around (note: this is in unpopulated low level areas. Finding the appropriate area for your server is hard and I will not disclose my area as it will become filled with people, not that I farm it anymore).

Etiquette is only valid for people who follow it.
You can’t force idiots not to be idiots.

So I used your Etiquette today. I let a mesmer get closer to the projector. I activated it, he proceeded to lay down his speed line, pulled all the mobs away, then shattered all his clones killing all 4 mobs instantly. He did this while I was still on the ground. Screw etiquette, or it will screw you first. Sorry for the rage

Valena.5160:

Ever since the hologram projectors made their appearance yesterday, I’ve been seeing a lot of high level players running around in low level zones using speed buffs and aoes to burn down the hologram mobs with no thought to the people around them. It’s happened to me, and I’m guilty of doing it to others. So in an effort to keep this event fun for everyone I thought I’d point out a few things.

Feel free to contribute your own rules of Courtesy._

This assumes that other players are out to be nice and not to maximize their coffers per hour.

Valena.5160:

_1.) There is no rush.

Yes, there is a rush. People want to get as many coffers as they can as quick as they can. This event will not last forever, and you can easily open hundreds of coffers and not get a ticket.

Valena.5160:

2.) Everyone gets their own loot.

Yes, sure, in an ideal world, everyone would go around to every spawn together as a group and everyone would get credit. But even then, there would be too many people for everyone to tag the mobs before they die. But this is not possible to coordinate, people aren’t capable of traversing the map at the same rate thus leading to the faster people having to slow down and wait for others to catch up, and as I said, people are out to maximize their coffer drops. It can work for a handful of people to move around as a group, but there are not enough holo projectors out in the world to accommodate everyone interested in farming them even if everyone grouped up to the largest manageable group and farmed only a large enough circuit so that the first one respawned as the last one died. And even then there would be contention because some circuits are faster to complete than others.

Valena.5160:

3.) Help people clear normal mobs.

Why? This does not increase a person’s coffers per hour.

Valena.5160:

4.) Don’t steal projectors.

In fact, if a person is out to maximize their coffers per hour, it is in their best interest to steal as many projectors as possible and to disallow any other players from getting any hits in. If you steal projectors out from under some one enough and they are getting very few hits and very few coffers themselves, they are more likely to give up and leave giving the stealer access to more projectors uncontested resulting in a tighter and more projector dense circuit and a higher coffer per hour.

Valena.5160:

5.) Remember that projectors spawn quickly.

This is true to an extent. One player does not need an entire map in order to complete a circuit of popping projectors without interruption. However, it does take a pretty good chunk of a map to maximize intake. I’d estimate that most maps could only support 3-4 players farming at optimal efficiency. But since people aren’t following some agreed upon rules. For an individual to maximize, they have to get to every projector they can. Even if you see one on the map, if the map is quite populated, there’s a decent chance that even if you waypoint to it immediately, another player may pop and finish it off before you can get there.

Valena.5160:

6.) If you have no intention of showing other players any courtesy and have an ‘Every man for himself’ mentality, then at least leave the lower level zones and farm mobs your level. Not only will you be giving lower levels a chance to farm their own holograms, but there are typically fewer people competing for kills in the higher level areas.

Players will go to whatever zone they think they can farm these things the fastest. Which, if people were clever and able to get a gauge of the population on each map, this should theoretically lead to evenly populated zones. However, some people are not so adept at running past mobs and others just don’t want to deal with the hassle.

Unfortunately, this particular facet of the game was not designed in the same vein as most of the rest of the game. ANet tried really hard to make a system where players would want to cooperate instead of fighting for resources among each other, but with this system, it really is a zero sum game. If one player is nice they will take a hit to their efficiency, and maximizing efficiency will necessarily lead to being a bit of a jerk.

I went to a quieter zone (Fields of Ruin) to farm my Holograms. Barely any competition, and the few people I did run into were all nice enough for people to gather before activating the Holograms. To make sure I did tag the mobs, I dropped Lava Font on the Hologram before activating it. (Note that Lava Font by itself isn’t enough to kill the mobs.)

I do wait for others who are running to them… but if others don’t… WHO CARES?!

Dear holy kittening god there are TONS around. If some one chooses to just go fast because of whatever reason (say they don’t have a lot of time) then you’ll live. It’s not a big deal what so ever since there are so many of these around.

if i am the first to reach a hologram, i usually announce on map chat letting people know this one’s available, that i’ll be opening it in around 10 – 20 seconds. this didn’t work as well, acuse once i waited waited over the stated time, no one came, so i started it and we all know hwo fast they die. then i see someone come around the corner. : (( and i feel terribad.

so next, i started to.. say put x in map chat, if you wanna come and i’l wait! this worked a lot better. i’ll always look around too especially if WPs are close to see if people port in.. and people would thank me. later on i would see the same people wait on me as they saw me running in the distance heading towards an new hologram. : )) it was nice to see that.

though always, there will be people who even when you politely ask them to wait in /say as they run up to the ones i’ve just announced, who people have expressed interest in comnig to farm together.. will just ignore you, activate it and kill them all while i was still typing. and there’s really not much you can do about that.. but to carry on.

also, use cleaves if you can if there are a lot of people around. i use staff 1 on my Guard. guaranteed bag loot and gives others a chance to loot as well.

i don’t think it’s the problem of the game. it’s the players who choose to do what they want and how they play. perhaps, you could even say it’s a test for the players in the game then. if you had good intentions for other players, keep it up! doesn’t mean you have to stoop to their levels of the efficiency mongering i do what i want type players… upkeep the positive community if anything!

it’s been only 2, 3 days so far. the speed farming will die down. stick to your own style. lend a helping hand. take a second or two to make a new friend. sometimes, not everything is about rewards.. but rather, the experience.

and i KNOW i’m not the only one that thinks like this.

The entire event seems designed to remind us of why we left WoW…

Node stealing has come to GW2.

I said it in another thread— I have no problem waiting and if I see you running I do.. however, if you get there and 1 shot everything before I can even tag it (happened multiple times) I will not wait for you again.

Esplen.3940:

Funset.7893:

Valena.5160:

Funset.7893:

Or you know, they just can make them instanced for every player.
Do not blame the players for their playstyle (as annoying as it is for you), blame the game mechanics.

The game mechanics are what they are, but there’s no reason to screw over other players when it takes a few seconds longer not to.

Oh really? Well today I was good enough to wait for 2 other palyers in a low level map (I was first tot he holoprojector). When we activated the holoprojector, the warrior rushed through the mobs and killed them instantly.

Again, why should I follow your miniguide?

Drop a tagskill beforehand.

What I do is if I see someone else, I’ll drop Radiation Field below where they spawn. This does enough damage to tag all the mobs but will not kill any mob by itself (even for the full duration). This ensures that other players get an opportunity to tag mobs at their own pace, especially at low levels (since it applies poison and weakness to help them survive).

This is what I’ve been doing while running around the low level areas. I’m a Necro with the Greater Marks trait, so I just drop a Mark of Blood on it when it pops and that’s more than big enough to tag all of the mobs. After the Mark triggers, I let everyone else present have their go at them.

Honestly though, I found that while leveling one of my alts in Fireheart Rise that I didn’t even have to rush to the hologram nodes. No one was farming there. Dunno if that’s because it’s a higher level zone or what, but hey, I wasn’t complaining :P
I think most of the issues people have are due to farming the starting zones. Anything below 40 is probably swamped.

Kichwas.7152:

The entire event seems designed to remind us of why we left WoW…

Node stealing has come to GW2.

Other than everyone can tag the mobs… and they only have a 8 min respawn timer… and there are tons all around… so… not at all like that really…

It is going to take 10000000000000000 coffers to get a ticket, so I have to get them as fast as possible.. sorry.

I do wait if I see someone running my way though. However, that is the only one of your suggestions that I follow.

LOL

I tried to be nice and posted it in map chat / say . But while standing there typing " Holo is up I’ll wait for….." some fool came along activated it and one shot the whole thing.
If i could “team Kill” he would have been drake fodder!

No more Mrs Nice Girl from me !

I wait for people I see coming, and sometimes I’m lucky enough that some people actually wait when they see me coming. That’s about the best you can expect in an open world game. If I miss out on a few, oh well, they spawn quick enough. You can’t control how other people act, the only control here is how ArenaNet decides to set the game mechanics.

Here are a few facts a out the holograms.

1. They are available for a limited time only.
2. You need to kill 300 creatures for the achievement.
3. They drop RNG boxes, which you need a lot of to have a decent chance at tickets
4. It takes time, and not everyone has unlimited time.
5. The mechanics are terrible (creatures die fast, must tag each for credit & loot)

As everyone knows by now, these holograms don’t allow for much courtesy and etiquette. If you don’t tag every creature, you don’t get credit, and lose your chance for drops. If you wait around for everyone to show up, not only does it mean that it takes twice the time, but you also risk missing kills.

The reality is that ANet hasn’t understood why these are stupid, and I’m going to go write a post about them, but while I agree that all players “should” try and work together, the reality is…..well, ain’t no one got time for that.

Aberrant.6749:

Kichwas.7152:

The entire event seems designed to remind us of why we left WoW…

Node stealing has come to GW2.

Other than everyone can tag the mobs… and they only have a 8 min respawn timer… and there are tons all around… so… not at all like that really…

Nodes respawn in WoW too BTW.

But no – not everyone can tag them if you have some 80 running through 1-shotting them before anyone can get a solid hit in by using speed buffs to race ahead of folks, or running past folks trying to clear adds.

I’ve even been mob trained – had an 80 dump a stack of mobs on me as I was trying to reach the node – click it, one shot AOE the whole thing, and then run to the next one while I was trying to avoid going down.

Yeah I could farm these on my 80 and grief him right back… But should I be -required- to use my most farming-powerful character just to do open world PvE content?

Yeah I dont think there is any courtesy going on with these at all. Seems to be a every man for himself mentality.

Myself and a guildie were farming them. 1 player started to follow us and I did the right thing and waited for him to reach the node prior to activating but on the next node the player was able to reach the node and destroy the mobs before myself or my guilie could reach it. Once that happened I made sure to get to each node and destroy the mobs before that player arrived.

Im sorry but if the favour is not returned do not expect mercy. Check ur surrounding before activating…. it takes a whole 2 seconds to scroll around.

Also I agree making them each each character instanced based so that each player has the same chance to farm. Could of sworn previous events like this didnt hinder other players.

Kichwas.7152:

The entire event seems designed to remind us of why we left WoW…

Node stealing has come to GW2.

Its not why I left WoW. I much preferred a system where a gathering node belonged to whoever got to it first. It made them much more fun to gather.

Its (a small) part of why the economy is so useless.

I’ve tried setting up high level farming groups of nice players.
Once you get to 4x players, even trying not to kill the mobs too fast, they die too fast anyway, and people miss out on kills.

It really has been setup to promote being a kitten. The most rewarding plan is to rush and kill them before others get there, while abusing others on the map so they leave.

It’s sadly snuck into the game. It’s the most low brow abuse I seen players doing to each other in this game. :-(

I did all 300 holo mobs in Plain of Ashford last night. I was alone on the map, almost. Every time I saw someone else I waited. Spent like 30 silver porting all over the place, ended up with 100 coffers (only got 1 ‘hard potion’ from them…. kinda disappointing really).

I usually will hang out for a second – some people have slow loading times and maybe the thing just showed up on their map. But after a few seconds I usually jump in.

I have found that if someone shows up late and I say “sorry didn’t see you” or “thought i was the only one at this one” they are usually super grateful and will return the courtesy of waiting.

BlueSoda.6297:

Sorry but it’s every man for himself,lol. Nobody waits for me on those things so why should I wait for them? Plus, I usually don’t get credit for the kills if I let someone else come over so…no deal kiddo, just going to keep killing them as fast as I can.

So because some other are kittens you are one too? Nice attitude right there.

I see no reason not to wait that few more seconds so the other person(s) can fight the holo. I’m not in a rush and dont need to be in bed by nine or something.

nononoooo, keep speading the goodness, kindness, and courtesy!
don’t take a step backwards… i know it’s easier to do “bad” than “good” and it takes that many A’s to make up for that one C.. but for those of you who started off being nice, STICK WITH IT. : ))) you have no idea who’s day you might make and it’s a small sacrifice to pay.

wait first. someone will wait for you next time. even if they don’t, that’s fine.

I’d like it if they added the ability to player kill in this game. Then all the nodes would be mine!!!

I got my achievement by running between 3 points in queensdale, I had a rough idea when they would spawn so I could clear one, run to the next one, clear and run to the last.

As for waiting? Sure, I’d wait 10~sec before triggering one, unless I saw someone approach I’d burst them down right after that.

But overall the consensus on Gandara was that we’d wait for 3 people to be at the point and then activate it.

Kichwas.7152:

Aberrant.6749:

Kichwas.7152:

The entire event seems designed to remind us of why we left WoW…

Node stealing has come to GW2.

Other than everyone can tag the mobs… and they only have a 8 min respawn timer… and there are tons all around… so… not at all like that really…

Nodes respawn in WoW too BTW.

But no – not everyone can tag them if you have some 80 running through 1-shotting them before anyone can get a solid hit in by using speed buffs to race ahead of folks, or running past folks trying to clear adds.

I’ve even been mob trained – had an 80 dump a stack of mobs on me as I was trying to reach the node – click it, one shot AOE the whole thing, and then run to the next one while I was trying to avoid going down.

Yeah I could farm these on my 80 and grief him right back… But should I be -required- to use my most farming-powerful character just to do open world PvE content?

They don’t respawn on an 8 min timer, nor are they as plentiful in WoW. Who cares if they kill them all quickly, tons more around. If this sort of thing bothers you then I would imagine you would be constantly infuriated irl.

Now that even on Vabbi(low populated server) are tons of players guesting and camping good spots I decided to wait(killed 68 minions so far) until 18th.

Then completing the other stuff for meta and deciding if I still should do the minion achievement(maybe there will be other possibilities to kill them after 18th).

Don’t have time to wait and run around the map all the time cause I also want to have fun while playing(which means doing other things than the achievements which are NOT fun).

I missed most of wintersday, but weren’t the presents similar? The mobs were much much tougher, I remember. Did people have similar issues at that event, or was it the tougher mobs that made it ok?

Presents were much tougher mobs(also dealing tons of damage). Also the presents were visible all the time at the map/minimap.

Later everyone could do the achievement at the instanced dungeons where enough mobs spawend.

I usually ask people on map to wait if they see someone running towards the Holo. If someone keeps being a jerk, I will try my best to be ahead of him and one shotting the holos before they make it. Most of the time they either learn to be good or leave the map.

I wait at holograms for someone to spawn, and then I hit the holo right when they start moving and 100blades every mob to death in front of their eyes, and then I bathe in their tears while chewing down delicious taffy and swimming in jade tickets. Your etiquette means nothing to me!

I am doing it in high level non world boss area. Very few people there.

But I usually wait 30 s – 1 m before activate it.

I’m so sick of all the illegal aliens on my lower populated server that are there just to farm the holos that I will purposely activate each and every one and not wait on these kittenbags.

However, if I do see someone from my server around I’ll give him one chance to come up and get the holo. If he is nice about it, I’ll continue to wait for him. If he is not, he gets left in the dust on all future holos.

Go home aliens.

Imagine ANet had also made it so the first one to tag the mobs is the only one to get rewards. Really oldschool mmo style. Would have been hilarious.

People should just try other zones.

Mount Maelstrom on the east side by the lake has well over a dozen. A lot of them you can do in a straight line such as on the way to golem (there’s 3). For each cycle of about 15 I only have to wp four times. Much cheaper than having to wp to each holo in the lower level maps.