Guild Wars 2

First off, I really like the story of Dragon Bash, just as i liked the story surrounding Canach.
But just as with the Southsun Event, I feel like the whole thing is spoiled by semi-(un)clear tasks and directives, and today’s (June 19th) update has been no exception.
Let’s just assume that not every member of the community reads patch notes – which, judging by the amount of “Where is…” and “What do i have to…”-questions in mapchat is a correct assumption.
Now, people who have not read the patch notes will encounter various problems with today’s update.

#1: After you have talked to Marjory Delacqua in Divinity’s Reach, you are instructed to meet Marjory in Lion’s Arch. However, she’s not there. Instead, you need to talk to Inspector Kiel, so she let’s you into the instance. Why there’s not even a slight hint that we are to talk to Inspector Kiel again is beyond me. I don’t actually want to know how many palyer’s didn’t continue at this point because they thought they were done for today.

#2: After you have located all 3 suspects that are listed in the letter, there’s absolutely no indication that this was all of today’s content. In fact, if you speak to Inspector Kiel now, she’s going to tell you exactly where to look for the remaining 2 suspects (I half expected to see ((delete me)) after that line of dialogue).

To make a long story short, the way the tasks are communicated in game currently is confusing. Somehow it all seems like somebody did a night shift and the entire mission was just finished this morning and nobody had the time to look over it to make sure that it all makes sense and that’s kind of sad, because from the story itself you can feel that a lot of people put a lot of thought in it, but then it kinda gets messed up in the act of narration.

Yeah I didn’t really know that I had to wait until later to do that last two suspects until I re-read the patch notes. It’s odd because she basically tells you where the last two are like she expects you to get to work on it right now.

I was actually browsing the forum to see if I was bugged or something. Didn’t know I’m already done for today. Thanks Anet!

Well I think this is weird.

Anet I like your way with these events but I really do NOT like to play the website, I want to play the game.

Why do I need to read all patch notes first to understand they are not available.. in first I thought.. ah cool its not shown on the mini map, so its a bit harder to find them! ( good idea huh ) But ye.. even monkeys can play GW2 that’s how easy it is.. but uhm ye

I don’t like to read websites and patch notes to play the game.

Thanks

She does tell you to chat up her “friend” in LA, that I had no problem with.

That Kiel tells you where all 5 are but you can only do 3… just weird. weird weird weird.

I noticed that too. GW, they let you know what to do. GW2, you better be on the forum or you don’t know what’s going on most of the time. Specifically, the burning effigies. I couldn’t figure out why I didn’t get the point for burning 1. I did the cut scene. I won. Can’t set fire to the ones in town. What’s going on? Oh. You have to go hunt them all over the world. Well why didn’t an NPC mention that?

They should take their “Special Event” box that they’ve had for every event so far and use that to point out what they should be doing next when it’s a linear setup like this, similar to the Personal Story, changing each step. It’s the simplest answer to these concerns, IMO.

1. Read your mail
2. Find Marjory Delaqua.
3. Speak to Inspector Kiel to enter the scene of the crime.
4. Investigate suspects with Marjory at the scene of the crime.
5. Return to Lion’s Arch to continue your investigation.
6. Read your mail.
7. Search for Vorrk, Marraloo, and Kasparak.
8. Inspector Kiel and Marjory are confirming reports on the remaining suspects and will notify you when they are located.

Yes, yes and yes.
It would actually be that easy! And it’s quite a puzzle to me why this isn’t done since most of those directions are in the patch notes anyway, so the only work that would have to be done is implementing them into the game.

CorneliusCoffin.3169:

Yes, yes and yes.
It would actually be that easy! And it’s quite a puzzle to me why this isn’t done since most of those directions are in the patch notes anyway, so the only work that would have to be done is implementing them into the game.

I said simple, not easy. If the code behind that section doesn’t support it, they’d have to add it, which may or may not be easy depending on how that code is set up and how it works with everything else, as well as resource allocation. It’s definitely the simplest though, because it doesn’t require new NPC dialogue, mail, animation, or voice acting, and probably the best solution…at least for linear plots.

I would feel more sympathetic if it wasn’t for the fact that there was more than enough to direct players.

Way to much for my taste, but that’s fine as I agree with a developers reply (within reason that is) to a post during the “Secert of Southsun” events about some people needing more help and in-game prompts than others.

However, as with “Secret of Southsun” everything players needed was communicated outright through in game prompts, text, achievements flavor text, need I go on?

Again, for my tastes way to much information just giving away everything as a spoiler before even getting to do it.

As for your #1:

She says to meet her in L.A. and return to the scene of the crime. Hmm, really that doesn’t just shout go back to L.A. and talk to Kiel to return to the first solo instance?

As for your #2:

The mail you get about finding the suspects outright states that they have located 3 of them along with at first a rough idea of location ruined by the “Show Me” button .

Not to mention that near the bottom she states;

“I’ll continue the investigation into the whereabouts of our last two suspects. Be wary, trust your instincts, and stay alive. – Marjory”

Which is like right in your face obvious that she herself has not yet located them while implying that once she does she will let you know. I would guess through another in-game mail being sent to the player.

Now to a point I will give a little on this one as Kiel’s follow-up text is conflicting to what one should be expecting since she is out right making reference to the last two before the actual story line has caught up to that point, but even then common sense should tell one that until Marjory contacts you again your job is done for now.

I didn’t need the forum, or update notes, or the new “Spelled Right Out For You” step-by-step spoiler guide that they just put on the main sites news feed to accomplish any part of this event, because everything was right in the game to guide those who pay attention.

As for the “Effigies” the very first in-game mail you get from Captain Logan Thackeray has him saying (among many other things about the event) “and there’s hologram boxes and dragon effigies outside.” way in advance of it being in game yet.

Honestly, how much easier is it suppose to be?

If it wasn’t for the proof of so much in-game information on what to expect and do I would be more sympathetic as I said above, but despite how many things may go wrong or be overlooked by the developers lets be fair and at least make sure we have our facts straight before we attack them with things that just aren’t true at all.

TBH though I may just make a request for them to borrow “Infantile Mode” from SBA as an event option for the games menu that requires being checked in order to have this “Easy Peasy Lemon Squeezy” garbage, and if unchecked it would display something that is more of a challenge to those of us who want it.

Seriously the way I feel about just how much they give away so fast at this point is them just going ahead and adding a “Play Me” button to the events and automating my character to just go do everything for me.

Michael Fejervary.8576:

I would feel more sympathetic if it wasn’t for the fact that there was more than enough to direct players.

Way to much for my taste, but that’s fine as I agree with a developers reply (within reason that is) to a post during the “Secert of Southsun” events about some people needing more help and in-game prompts than others.

However, as with “Secret of Southsun” everything players needed was communicated outright through in game prompts, text, achievements flavor text, need I go on?

Again, for my tastes way to much information just giving away everything as a spoiler before even getting to do it.

As for your #1:

She says to meet her in L.A. and return to the scene of the crime. Hmm, really that doesn’t just shout go back to L.A. and talk to Kiel to return to the first solo instance?

As for your #2:

The mail you get about finding the suspects outright states that they have located 3 of them along with at first a rough idea of location ruined by the “Show Me” button .

Not to mention that near the bottom she states;

“I’ll continue the investigation into the whereabouts of our last two suspects. Be wary, trust your instincts, and stay alive. – Marjory”

Which is like right in your face obvious that she herself has not yet located them while implying that once she does she will let you know. I would guess through another in-game mail being sent to the player.

Now to a point I will give a little on this one as Kiel’s follow-up text is conflicting to what one should be expecting since she is out right making reference to the last two before the actual story line has caught up to that point, but even then common sense should tell one that until Marjory contacts you again your job is done for now.

I didn’t need the forum, or update notes, or the new “Spelled Right Out For You” step-by-step spoiler guide that they just put on the main sites news feed to accomplish any part of this event, because everything was right in the game to guide those who pay attention.

As for the “Effigies” the very first in-game mail you get from Captain Logan Thackeray has him saying (among many other things about the event) “and there’s hologram boxes and dragon effigies outside.” way in advance of it being in game yet.

Honestly, how much easier is it suppose to be?

If it wasn’t for the proof of so much in-game information on what to expect and do I would be more sympathetic as I said above, but despite how many things may go wrong or be overlooked by the developers lets be fair and at least make sure we have our facts straight before we attack them with things that just aren’t true at all.

TBH though I may just make a request for them to borrow “Infantile Mode” from SBA as an event option for the games menu that requires being checked in order to have this “Easy Peasy Lemon Squeezy” garbage, and if unchecked it would display something that is more of a challenge to those of us who want it.

Seriously the way I feel about just how much they give away so fast at this point is them just going ahead and adding a “Play Me” button to the events and automating my character to just go do everything for me.

Everything you are bringing forward is contradicted by the many “What do i have to do”s and “Where do I find…”s in map chat. If it was really that clear, those wouldn’t be there.
I remember that this same debate with the same arguments has been held during the Southsun event. I also remember that back then the event was brought forward that if you follow all instructions and click all yellow star characters repeatedly you wouldn’t have missed out on the content (Kiel’s contract mission in that case).
Well, maybe that’s just not the way we want to experience the game. I think yours is a perfect approach for a more gameplay-centred update, but todays update, I felt, was purely narrative. And from a good narrative I expect that it guides me from plot-point to plot-point. I know you’re trying to sell me those hunts for the next character I have to talk to as part of the gameplay but as such it is just not very good and it’s interfering with my enjoying the story (especially if it forces me to get out of the game to see what I have to do next or if I’m done for today.)

The only thing that could possibly give you more direction as to what to do would be if a dev came to your house and did the event for you.

I mean seriously, you have the event box that gives a general idea. They send you a personal customized mail at each step that literally shows you the exact spot to go to next. You have the achievement tab that tells you exactly where to go and what to do for each achievement and you have the dialog at each step that tells you what to do next.

If you can’t figure out what is going on from all of that then I think you should be spending more time in school and less time playing video games.

It’s hard to argue that inspector keil telling you where the other two subjects are is not misleading. Especially if you did like I did, and went back to inspector keil after collecting the 3 suspects. Since the letter says Marjory is “investigations the whereabouts”, and now keil has that information, it communicates to the player that it is now time to hunt down the last two. Unless you check the forums, there’s no way to guess that the characters keil tells you are there are not, and when you find they are not there is no in game way of knowing when they will be there. I think there is some grey area about the other points, but the information about the last two suspects provided in game is misleading at best and self-conflicting at worst. They simply should not have enabled Kiel’s second dialogue box about the last two till tommorow.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

The only thing that could possibly give you more direction as to what to do would be if a dev came to your house and did the event for you.

I mean seriously, you have the event box that gives a general idea. They send you a personal customized mail at each step that literally shows you the exact spot to go to next. You have the achievement tab that tells you exactly where to go and what to do for each achievement and you have the dialog at each step that tells you what to do next.

If you can’t figure out what is going on from all of that then I think you should be spending more time in school and less time playing video games.

Did you even read my opening post?
I have given you two examples where what you are saying up there (i.e. clear directions, exact spot, etc) simply isn’t true. And that’s just THIS update.

Hmm I really wasn’t bothered at all by these things. For your first point, you were told to meet her at the scene of the crime in LA and since you’ve already visited that instance I actually automatically talked to Kiel when I didn’t see a new NPC. And for your second point, you were guided by the mail in your inbox which only spoke of 3 suspects that were found and actually pointed you to almost the exact location they were at. If that wasn’t enough there was always the big event star on the mini-map that told you the exact location.
I actually felt like the guidance here was too much which made it way too easy. But in the end that’s just my opinion/experience of course.

It certainly getting better though. She did say meet me at Lions Arch but instead you have to talk to commander Kiel. But what I did like is how it ended. “Get some rest, I’ll contact you when we have more information on the other suspects” (something like that)

Which was great, I knew this part was over and I had to wait for another message.

They are certainly improving on their communication, the only failure was the talking to Kiel first at Lions Arch when you were instructed to talk to Delacqua. The problem can be the quest icons over the heads of the NPC’s – they don’t change. You see th icon over Kiel but you have already clicked on her previously you had no idea that it was the trigger for this quest as well.

They need a put another halo around the the icon to indicate she has something new to tell you.

If you followed ALL of the dialogue then there’s no reason for you to not know where to go. Going to the bar is pretty obvious since the mail you receive tells you where to go. If you paid attention to the dialogue then you would here her tell you to meet her at the scene of the crime. If you go there then you will see Kiel. ALL, and I mean ALL, living story events/instance have had the gold star symbol. Common sense would dictate that you talk to her.

You should also be aware of the heralds that were added to the game. If you spoke to the one by the scene of the crime she would tell you there are some investigators here and to check in with Kiel. Not that difficult.

Finding the suspects is easy as well. The info you get in the mail is descriptive enough and you once again have the icon on the map pointing you where to go.

People need to read the patch notes. It baffles me that people do not go and check after each update. If people don’t read the patch notes then it’s their own fault; not the dev’s. There’s no reason that people need to have their hands held.

CorneliusCoffin.3169:

Everything you are bringing forward is contradicted by the many “What do i have to do”s and “Where do I find…”s in map chat. If it was really that clear, those wouldn’t be there.

This is not true. Laziness and/or unable to put a little thought into things does not mean that what to do for the living story isn’t clear.

Ayrilana.1396:

CorneliusCoffin.3169:

Everything you are bringing forward is contradicted by the many “What do i have to do”s and “Where do I find…”s in map chat. If it was really that clear, those wouldn’t be there.

This is not true. Laziness and/or unable to put a little thought into things does not mean that what to do for the living story isn’t clear.

I was just going to reply to that same part.

The only thing I can say is maybe there needs to be an IQ test before being allowed to install GW2 then, because its just very hard to believe that those (and its usually the same exact people at every point of a given event) asking are that clueless.

So yeah I agree with Ayrilana on this being more due to lack of paying attention, etc.

Not saying that every part is picture perfect, but to act like the developers took no time to give in-game clues & hints at every turn is just absurd.

Sorry, but if those players are just that bad off then maybe they should send feedback requesting a “Play Me” button.

Another thing is again why doesn’t inspector Kiel recognise us. The PC is the second in command of the pact and we just helped her at southsun. More recently, the PC just escorted the captains to a safe place for goodness sake. And we still had to be vouched by a private detective to enter the crime scene. Also kasmeer, we met her at southsun too. Things just seems so weird that we had to introduce ourselves to them again each time we meet.

Ayrilana.1396:

People need to read the patch notes. It baffles me that people do not go and check after each update. If people don’t read the patch notes then it’s their own fault; not the dev’s. There’s no reason that people need to have their hands held.

this is absolute rubbish. A game should never have to rely on third party/external information to work or be understood.

WoW did this and it sucked. New expansion and everything changed – why? what happened? “You just have to buy this series of books, its all explained in there” – absolute rubbish!

Thobek.1730:

Ayrilana.1396:

People need to read the patch notes. It baffles me that people do not go and check after each update. If people don’t read the patch notes then it’s their own fault; not the dev’s. There’s no reason that people need to have their hands held.

this is absolute rubbish. A game should never have to rely on third party/external information to work or be understood.

WoW did this and it sucked. New expansion and everything changed – why? what happened? “You just have to buy this series of books, its all explained in there” – absolute rubbish!

MMORPG, patch notes on official site, its like saying “one shouldnt need to read the manual” in the old SNES days, believe it or not patch notes are part of what you got when buying GW2, so shut up.
Also for wow, you got 99% of the story (that they butchered in wrath of the kitten queen and are now trying to fix) by questing.

Michael Fejervary.8576:

Ayrilana.1396:

CorneliusCoffin.3169:

Everything you are bringing forward is contradicted by the many “What do i have to do”s and “Where do I find…”s in map chat. If it was really that clear, those wouldn’t be there.

This is not true. Laziness and/or unable to put a little thought into things does not mean that what to do for the living story isn’t clear.

I was just going to reply to that same part.

The only thing I can say is maybe there needs to be an IQ test before being allowed to install GW2 then, because its just very hard to believe that those (and its usually the same exact people at every point of a given event) asking are that clueless.

So yeah I agree with Ayrilana on this being more due to lack of paying attention, etc.

Not saying that every part is picture perfect, but to act like the developers took no time to give in-game clues & hints at every turn is just absurd.

Sorry, but if those players are just that bad off then maybe they should send feedback requesting a “Play Me” button.

Look, I’d really appreciate it if you’d all stop pretending like anybody said that the developers took no time or made no efforts in writing this. All I said was that there are some parts of the story that could have been made better. It was meant to be constructive criticism to turn something that is good already into something ever better. If that pains you so much, but you have nothing constructive to add, other than we’re all idiots because some us have actually studied narratology, then please suffer in silence.

@Aryliana: What you are saiyng is just simply not true. If you followed ALL the dialogue you’d be directed towards the two remaining suspects that aren’t in the game yet. I don’t know why people think that saying “Well that wasn’t in the instructions in the letter.” is a point against that. I know it wasn’t in the letter but there’s nothing that indicates that the information we get from the letter has more validity than the information we get from Kiel in the dialogue.
Another case of this (which has been discussed in another thread) is that in the letter we are directed to follow the ogres footsteps away from the crime scene and then there aren’t any footsteeps. I know you’re now going to say that there was a yellow star on the map. I am fully aware of that and I acknowledge it. Yet, it would have been nicer in light of a coherent story to actually have footsteps. I know a lot of people were actually looking for those.

I’m normally one to tell people to look harder when they don’t know what to do, but I will agree this time that it was unclear. I closed the game after leaving the Dead End instance, and only realized I wasn’t finished after reading GW2’s posts on facebook. Once I knew there was more to be done, it was kind of common sense for me to go back to Kiel since the other LA story instances were accessed through her, but it was not a give-away. Also she told me that we were done for the day, but then she also told me the location of 2 other reps, so I went looking for them and of course they were not there.

your point 1: she said something along the lines of “lets investigate the scene of the crime in lion arch”. logic would dictate your actions on where to go.

your point 2: yes if you speak to her she gives you an idea of where all 5 are but you then recieve a letter telling you she’s found 3 for you to investigateand is still looking for the other 2. logic would dictate you would go to these 3 and then expect another email with the other 2 locations. (when this doesn’t happen you’d ask on chat or go online to figure out whats going on).
Those on map chat asking “how do you do the event, where do i go for the event” either havent read the mail at all, just logged in and want the achievement as fast as possible.

Andele.1306:

Thobek.1730:

Ayrilana.1396:

People need to read the patch notes. It baffles me that people do not go and check after each update. If people don’t read the patch notes then it’s their own fault; not the dev’s. There’s no reason that people need to have their hands held.

this is absolute rubbish. A game should never have to rely on third party/external information to work or be understood.

WoW did this and it sucked. New expansion and everything changed – why? what happened? “You just have to buy this series of books, its all explained in there” – absolute rubbish!

MMORPG, patch notes on official site, its like saying “one shouldnt need to read the manual” in the old SNES days, believe it or not patch notes are part of what you got when buying GW2, so shut up.
Also for wow, you got 99% of the story (that they butchered in wrath of the kitten queen and are now trying to fix) by questing.

patch notes = what has changed/player manual = how to play the game, two completely different things. Imagine taking things to extremes (to prove a point) i.e. all quest information is given out via patch notes. “You must visit X, go see Y.” with no in-game prompts. How stupid would that be? Why don’t they take it a step further and include ALL quest information in-game. locations, times, etc instead of jumping around from one source to the other to get the complete picture.

understand? probably not…

Arc DLad.2194:

your point 1: she said something along the lines of “lets investigate the scene of the crime in lion arch”. logic would dictate your actions on where to go.

your point 2: yes if you speak to her she gives you an idea of where all 5 are but you then recieve a letter telling you she’s found 3 for you to investigateand is still looking for the other 2. logic would dictate you would go to these 3 and then expect another email with the other 2 locations. (when this doesn’t happen you’d ask on chat or go online to figure out whats going on).
Those on map chat asking “how do you do the event, where do i go for the event” either havent read the mail at all, just logged in and want the achievement as fast as possible.

Okay, I understand that my point one is arguable. I personally just think that it could have been a little smoother.

But I think for my point 2 you’re mixing up the chronology. You receive the letter before you talk to Inspector Kiel (immediately after you leave the Return to the Crime Scene"-instance). Me, personally, I didn’t talk to Kiel until I had found the 3 suspects from the letter and didn’t know what to do next. Fortuantely Kiel told me what to do next, only that it wasn’t there yet.

CorneliusCoffin.3169:

Arc DLad.2194:

3 and then expect another email with the other 2 locations. (when this doesn’t happen you’d ask on chat or go online to figure out whats going on).

But I think for my point 2 you’re mixing up the chronology. You receive the letter before you talk to Inspector Kiel (immediately after you leave the Return to the Crime Scene"-instance). Me, personally, I didn’t talk to Kiel until I had found the 3 suspects from the letter and didn’t know what to do next. Fortuantely Kiel told me what to do next, only that it wasn’t there yet.

thats the issue i guess, they didn’t take into account everyone’s play style:

A- those who would think, i’ve found these 3 let me go back to the instance and tell
her and get the last two.
B – Keil seems to know most things maybe she’s been told where the last two are.

saying that I overlooked it myself haha

They just needed the NPC to say : We are not sure where the last 2 suspects are, we will have you informed later.

Then you don’t have to read patch notes, cause you would figure out they are not live yet. But saying you need to find suspects and you find the first 3 with no problem, and then you look for the others two and they are not there. They hide? Do I need to find them without mini map?

Alt+Tab.. Forum, Patch Notes… Ahhh not in the game yet -_-"

That’s all guys, just giving feedback :P

Maybe Arenanet needs to send around a mail about how people should check their mail so they know what to do…

This is an online game that in continually changing through updates/patches. The event sequences for living story have always been staggered rather than released all at once. If you don’t read the patch notes then it’s your own fault.

Maybe we should also ask for a “do every single thing for me in the game while I watch and complain” button. Sorry but this is just rediculous. If anything there was too much information, not a lack of information or incorrect info. They took you by the hand and guided you through the whole thing (figuratively speaking).
Complaining about their guide for the event not being ingame, but on their official website… come on… What do you want next, an ingame forum?

Sorry, but I don’t see much point to this complaint as well.

The many “Where is …”, “How can I …” a merely people who have no clue how to read onscreen information or are simply too lazy. It’s the “How can I get all achievements as fast as possible without thinking or reading anything?” crowd.
I remember countless people during the Southsun Cove event who asked about stuff in map chat, actually following the list of achievements. Along the lines of “Hey, where is Kiel?! … okay, thanks! Where is the Consortium guy?! … okay, thanks! Where is Faren?! … okay, thanks!”, honestly, if anything, Anet is giving way too many hints and clues. But somehow it’s beyond most people to actually read the achievement descriptions (that for the most part give you exact locations) or REMEMBER what was being said in conversations.

You are told to meet Marjory at the Crime Scene. Thinking back a whole day, maybe even only a few hours if you did it right before, you could figure out where said Crime Scene would be.

And how disappointed I was when I was looking for said ogre footprints around the plaza, only to then find out, not only can you just let the letter tell you where the ogre was, no, you even get a Living Story map marker right at his location.
Wow, that’s some detective work right there.

So many people have lost any ability to tolerate not being told where to go right away, they have no patience whatsoever. There is EVERYTHING laid out in the game for you, you get markers, letters, hints in different text colour that ALL tell you exactly what to do, but people still can’t be bothered.

The only thing I’d somewhat agree on is the last two suspects. I still think it’s fairly obvious to wait for the next letter, especially considering this content being released in little waves (not that the majority of people would know or notice this, apparently), but the break at that point is a little odd.

/rant

If this was done properly, there would be no confusion. This is a game, all answers should be IN THE GAME, not on any website. Also, the game has so many bugs, that your first assumption on being stuck is that something is broken.

Shame it seems so few people had the opportunity to experience the games of yore… back when all you got was “There is a small mailbox here.”

Imagine having a gamer think for themselves….

Anwar.2018:

If this was done properly, there would be no confusion. This is a game, all answers should be IN THE GAME, not on any website. Also, the game has so many bugs, that your first assumption on being stuck is that something is broken.

No confusion?

You obviously do not understand just how…….challenged………people often are.

As someone who does paper work for a motorcycle school I can tell you this.

You can high light, underline, bold etc all the important information in their paper work such as dates, times, and what they are required to bring. You can emphasize they will not be allowed into the class if they do not arrive on time or bring the proper equipment and will not receive a refund. You can have this said on multiple pages……….and when they get there, late and without the proper gear……they will STILL blame you and feel entitled to a refund.

People are idiots, this event and thread proves that.

Anwar.2018:

If this was done properly, there would be no confusion. This is a game, all answers should be IN THE GAME, not on any website. Also, the game has so many bugs, that your first assumption on being stuck is that something is broken.

As a 15 year veteran of the IT field, I can tell you that at least 50% of people cannot follow clear, step by step directions unless they have associated pictures. A good 70%+ of the US population is functionally illiterate.

What I’m saying is that the people asking what to do in map chat just can’t read at a level that allows them to function properly, and no amount of hand holding will change that.

What I think is funny is that so far 100% of the people that keep coming in here to tell us we’re idiots and can’t read haven’t adressed the issue we’re trying to raise here.
It’s dramatic irony, really.

CorneliusCoffin.3169:

What I think is funny is that so far 100% of the people that keep coming in here to tell us we’re idiots and can’t read haven’t adressed the issue we’re trying to raise here.
It’s dramatic irony, really.

Your argument is tasks are confusing due to how they are communicated.

They are not.

CorneliusCoffin.3169:

What I think is funny is that so far 100% of the people that keep coming in here to tell us we’re idiots and can’t read haven’t adressed the issue we’re trying to raise here.
It’s dramatic irony, really.

I can now understand why you may find ANet’s communications confusing.

Mourningcry.9428:

Shame it seems so few people had the opportunity to experience the games of yore… back when all you got was “There is a small mailbox here.”

Imagine having a gamer think for themselves….

OPEN MAILBOX
“There is a letter here.”
GET LETTER
You have 1 Letter
READ LETTER
(text of letter given)
FOLD LETTER
You have 1 Folded Letter
GO EAST
(Clearing) There is an oak tree here.
CLIMB TREE

… ah the days of yore. I got a full graphic Zork and it just wasn’t the same.

As to this thread — I didn’t want any spoilers, so I went looking for all the suspects just based on the letters. The Skritt took me the longest because I didn’t realize there was a star on the map and the Suspicious Barrels seemed a possible hiding place given the guild bounty Skritt using such things. In the process I found a whole Asura family in the Almuten Estate when I’m pretty sure only the kid used to be there. Neat! Then I had to use the star for the ogre because after running all over the crime scene area I saw no footprints, not even my own. Sadness.

I’ve used Dulfy’s guides extensively through the Living Story. This was my first attempt to do all of it without a guide, and it really wasn’t hard at all. Now I just have to win 14 Dragonball games to finally complete ALL achieves in an Event. (Curse you, Clock Tower!)

Mourningcry.9428:

Shame it seems so few people had the opportunity to experience the games of yore… back when all you got was “There is a small mailbox here.”

Imagine having a gamer think for themselves….

West of House
You are standing in an open field west of a white house, with a boarded front door.
There is a small mailbox here.

The C64 days when there were no instant online FAQ’s, and before the “Not so useful” hint decoders that eventually came with Infocom games.

Now to find my DOS emulator as Windows 7 does not allow me to play Zork I, II, or III anymore without one.

CorneliusCoffin.3169:

What I think is funny is that so far 100% of the people that keep coming in here to tell us we’re idiots and can’t read haven’t adressed the issue we’re trying to raise here.
It’s dramatic irony, really.

What I think is funny is that you started your own post along with a title and content that portrayed you as having issues with things not being clear without having to go to a wiki, update notes, or some sort of walkthrough as your main focus.

Then it appears very shortly after the first few that agreed with your initial post that as soon as others started pointing out how (or why) they felt different from you that you appeared to then portray a reversal from your original main focus.

As stated by you;

“It was meant to be constructive criticism to turn something that is good already into something ever better. If that pains you so much, but you have nothing constructive to add, other than we’re all idiots because some us have actually studied narratology, then please suffer in silence.”

So those of us who had stated their constructive criticism about how if anything your original post was flawed, because we felt that if anything way to much information was given at every turn and maybe the fault was in part that of players not paying attention was somehow attacked by you in various ways as not being constructive.

In that case I guess one could say the same thing to you “if it pains you so much” that not everyone shares your initial view and their constructive criticism doesn’t fit total agreement to yours then “please suffer in silence” and stop quoting and posting against them every time they share a thought that does not match yours.

I do not recall anyone saying things were 100% perfect and without flaws, and most of us also pointed out agreement (even if ONLY to a point) about Kiel and the last 2 suspects. However, many of us also pointed out that regardless of in-game prompts or narrative communication (depending on which side you changed to) that we still had no real issues with following the story progression and knowing what to do.

I am sorry, you didn’t get the results you may have been looking for, but I think overall most have left decent enough feedback from both sides even if not in total agreement to your original post to give the developers that may read this some ideas on how to maybe help link things better without ruining things by making it even easier than it already is either.

Michael Fejervary.8576:

CorneliusCoffin.3169:

What I think is funny is that so far 100% of the people that keep coming in here to tell us we’re idiots and can’t read haven’t adressed the issue we’re trying to raise here.
It’s dramatic irony, really.

What I think is funny is that you started your own post along with a title and content that portrayed you as having issues with things not being clear without having to go to a wiki, update notes, or some sort of walkthrough as your main focus.

Then it appears very shortly after the first few that agreed with your initial post that as soon as others started pointing out how (or why) they felt different from you that you appeared to then portray a reversal from your original main focus.

As stated by you;

“It was meant to be constructive criticism to turn something that is good already into something ever better. If that pains you so much, but you have nothing constructive to add, other than we’re all idiots because some us have actually studied narratology, then please suffer in silence.”

So those of us who had stated their constructive criticism about how if anything your original post was flawed, because we felt that if anything way to much information was given at every turn and maybe the fault was in part that of players not paying attention was somehow attacked by you in various ways as not being constructive.

In that case I guess one could say the same thing to you “if it pains you so much” that not everyone shares your initial view and their constructive criticism doesn’t fit total agreement to yours then “please suffer in silence” and stop quoting and posting against them every time they share a thought that does not match yours.

I do not recall anyone saying things were 100% perfect and without flaws, and most of us also pointed out agreement (even if ONLY to a point) about Kiel and the last 2 suspects. However, many of us also pointed out that regardless of in-game prompts or narrative communication (depending on which side you changed to) that we still had no real issues with following the story progression and knowing what to do.

I am sorry, you didn’t get the results you may have been looking for, but I think overall most have left decent enough feedback from both sides even if not in total agreement to your original post to give the developers that may read this some ideas on how to maybe help link things better without ruining things by making it even easier than it already is either.

No, I think you are totally right, that my initial post was maybe flawed or not clear enough, and I tink I have already stated above that: “I understand that my point one is arguable.” Still, I’m thankful for any piece of constructive contribution, which includes your latest post. At the same time I’m also baffled by the amount of people just coming in here to say “You’re wrong” and starting to insult the inteligence of everybody who agrees with me (which btw includes one of your earlier posts), just because we’re looking for a more narrative approach to the game.

To maybe close this case: I think that what I was trying to adress here has been handled very wonderfully in the latest patch. Kiel tells you that you’ve done all for today and instructs you to wait for more information in the future. If this is how it’s handled in the future, I’d be more than happy. Not sure if it was a reaction to this or previous threads, but if it was, I’d like to thank ArenaNet for listening to the common in common sense.

I pretty much agree with Rizzo and Celestina. I see it all the time and it appears to be getting worse. Idiocracy (the film), anyone?

I’m wondering if this new generation of “gamers” can actually beat any of the older games (without step by step guides). Games like Legend of Zelda with dungeons that required a little critical thinking for example. It seems people nowadays want games that essentially act as a movie rather than an actual game.

Mourningcry.9428:

Shame it seems so few people had the opportunity to experience the games of yore… back when all you got was “There is a small mailbox here.”

Imagine having a gamer think for themselves….

Actually I want them to do that for at least some content, but specifically point out that it’s harder content that doesn’t have in-your-face instructions on what to do, a challenge to the player base to complete. Make it extra stuff, not the main course.

We’re never going to get this type of content en masse, though, until they can train players to look beyond the “shiny star above NPC heads” with instructions plainly pointed out on a UI tracker and via achievements. It’s very possible to do, it’s just training them to look for certain things. They already trained them to head towards the orange circles. We can be trained…it just takes effort.

The Mad King Memories scavenger hunt was very much like this. No achievements to track, just using clues to figure out the next thing to do. I want more of this. It brings the community together as we figure out where to go.

Then throw a huge monkey wrench in the searching by randomizing certain steps to split up where players are going so everyone’s not crowding the same NPC.

Hell, I’ll design one and give it away for free. :P

Donari.5237:

… ah the days of yore. I got a full graphic Zork and it just wasn’t the same.

Michael Fejervary.8576:

Now to find my DOS emulator as Windows 7 does not allow me to play Zork I, II, or III anymore without one.

Vahkris.6847:

We’re never going to get this type of content en masse, though, until they can train players to look beyond the “shiny star above NPC heads” with instructions plainly pointed out on a UI tracker and via achievements. It’s very possible to do, it’s just training them to look for certain things. They already trained them to head towards the orange circles. We can be trained…it just takes effort.
…
Hell, I’ll design one and give it away for free. :P

Don’t you know you can’t go home again?

I think the point was that they gave us too much information, not too little. They Npcs told us about content we could not yet access. That is not a matter of not taking hints. If you took the hints and read things carefully, in the order they were given to you, you would assume you could get those last 2 Npcs. If inspector Kiel gave less information, it would have been clearer. This is not a matter of needing more guidance, it’s about the narrative being in sync with the activities available, so you don’t have to look on the forums or the wiki (and possibly have the whole story spoiled.)