Guild Wars 2

A lot of people say that trying to throw someone off a cliff is “Cheesy” or “requires no skill”. These are false. If you know how to properly use your environment, there is nothing those tossers can do to you. I will only say stability once. That was right now. It isn’t needed to be successful on a map with falling to your death mechanics. A player using none of it can beat an engineer going full CC if you know what you are doing.

General Tips

1. Note what could be the largest distance CC they could have, and stay that far away – Is an engineer coming after you? Nearly all CC they do is melee ranged (400 or less). The exceptions are magnet (a pull) and Big Ol’ Bomb (Make a sandwich and dodge)
2. Use Walls – There are walls all over the place. If you hug right against it, you need multiple CCs or a pull to get you out of there. Use that to either waste their cooldowns or regain some health before going for a spike.
3. Note their weapons – An engineer using two pistols doesn’t have overcharged shot. A guardian in staff can’t banish you. Watch their weapons and play accordingly.
4. Keep them between you and the cliff – There are only two skills in the game that can CC you off a cliff alone while the enemy is between you and the cliff. Those are temporal Curtain (has a telegraph) and throw mine (has a telegraph). Technically there is Deployable turrets + Accelerant Packed Turrets, but that’s really rare.
5. Know the Chains – Guardians like to Shield of Absorption first, immob you with the chains of light and then send you flying off a cliff with banish. Engineers will pull you with magnet, push you with Magnetic Shield and then air blast you with flamethrower. Mesmers use bait you to a cliff and throw you with Temporal Curtain. Don’t let them set you up!
6. Travel in Packs – In PvP, pushing someone of a capture point is EASY. Engineers can decap anything they want if it’s 1v1. Add in another player and it becomes nearly impossible. Numbers help resist CC, if only because they have too much to worry about to get their combos right.
7. If the enemy stealths, get away from cliffs and prepare to dodge – Mesmer poofs? It’s probably going for a temporal curtain pull. Dodge and run. Engineer go invis? Wait 1-2 seconds and dodge. It’s probably a magnet pull.
8. Stay away from cliffs – If someone is running a CC build, they have to be near a cliff to be effective. Fight on your own terms. Fight where you are most effective. Are you a condi build with 0 CC? Don’t fight near cliffs! Set your self up to be fighting in the most advantageous place you can find.
9. Sometimes it’s better to run – Perplexity Engis are a tough fight, especially if you have almost no condi removal. Maybe let him win this round and come back another day. Better than making the long trip back.

Notable CCs and how to counter them

1. Temporal Curtain – This has a 600 range to it and a 1s delay after being placed. It can be triggered anytime afterwards. If you are right next to it, double dodge away from the cliff. If you are maybe 300+ range from it, dodge once away from it. It might even be worth it to use an invuln to ensure you escape. Keep in mind, it’s only a 450 pull distance, so if you are a good distance from the cliff, it can’t throw you off. Some people tend to think the pull is strongest on the inside, but that’s not true. Once you see this being used, get away from cliffs.
2. Magnet – Watch for the gray beam of light that takes a full second to get off. It’s very easily dodgable when you know what’s coming. Make sure when running from an engineer using this that you keep watching your back. Set a key bind to look in back or simply click and drag the screen to see in back of you while running away.
3. Fear Me – This is possibly the most OP CC in the game in these types of fights. The key is that the further away you are, the less effective it is. This of course is easier said than done as warriors are really good at engaging enemies with leaps and immunities. Thus, your main options are stun breakers and simply keeping the warrior on the wrong side of you. Also remember, the faster you are, the faster you run away!
4. Doom – Same as Fear Me.
5. Point Blank Shot – If Doom is the Zhaitan of CCs, Point Blank Shot is the Deep Sea Dragon of CCs. It’s super deadly, but people forget it is there until it’s too late. This is a 900 range shot that can throw you quite far. It is also only a 1/2 cast time. Check if the ranger is using a long bow ahead of time.

Should probably add to the list of notable CCs, the fear thieves get from necros.

If you don’t know where his fingers have been, you should assume the worst.

I pushed a lot of people off ledges with iWave… Better add it to the list as I didn’t see it mentioned.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

A lot of people say that trying to throw someone off a cliff is “Cheesy” or “requires no skill”. These are false.

Stealthing and then yanking/knocking someone requires MASSIVE skill!

The Gates Assassin.9827:

I will only say stability once. That was right now. It isn’t needed to be successful on a map with falling to your death mechanics. A player using none of it can beat an engineer going full CC if you know what you are doing.

Of course, a class with proper stability can use all of the gameplay tips you listed and also have stability to make up for the fact that they’re human and aren’t going to be perfect at it. Other classes? Well, too bad for them.

The length of your list actually proves the point that this new area is oriented far too much around nonsense like knocking and yanking people. Personally, I’ve found this approach to be simpler and much more effective:

0. Play in actual WvW, where I can work for my server directly, and fight against players rather than the map. Or in sPvP, where at least I’m only forced to deal with this annoying foolishness on occasion in solo queue.

And that’s disappointing to me, because I like the idea behind EotM and find it a shame that it’s been ruined by Arenanet apparently choosing to ignore all of the negative feedback they get daily about Skyhammer.

Don’t run straight at a Guardian standing at the end of a bridge holding a hammer if you don’t have stability…

Yes a Thief actually did this today, waved at me, then came charging shadow stepping and such, made a nice home run for me :P

How to not fall off cliffs:

1. Dodge roll
2. Dodge roll
3. Dodge roll
4. Stability
5. Dodge roll

Honestly, the only times I’ve fallen off the cliffs were when I accidentally walked off. It’s really not that hard. Every class has access to stability (some more than others… necro vs guard…). Use it if you want to not fall off.

And there is the biggest reason I will never play edge of the mists. I HATE!!! floating content with a white hot burning passionate HATRED!!

I’d also add – learn the map…
There isn’t one way to get somewhere – there are many. The faster might be the more dangerous. But there are safer ways than others, obviously.

The whole map isn’t near a cliff, there’s sizable landmass so if you don’t want to fall off, then don’t run/stand near a cliff. It isn’t rocket science, but it does add an extra element to player vs player. Being aware of your surroundings has always been a part of PvP since the beginning of time. Anet having added this element simply makes you learn the other classes even more, makes you be a bit more aware of where you’re standing. I see no problems with it. You quickly learn the tricks enemies use to bait you near a cliff. It’s like a knock me off once, shame on you…knock me off twice, shame on me kind of thing. I believe it enhances the gameplay. It’s like indiana jones + world vs world pvp.

People want things that are anti blob, well there’s absolutely nothing anti blob in WvW. In EOTM however, the lesser team being outnumbered can utilize clever strategies to shave some enemies off the blob by using the environment. I can understand complaining about it if the size of landmass is small, if the areas you can stand on is tiny. But that’s simply not the case. EOTM is huge, huge enough for some people to complain about the size of the map and how long it takes to run.

I agree with the above, learn the map, you’ll do much better that way. An example is we were at a bridge standoff, it was one of those open bridges where if you fight on it, you’ll for sure get knocked off. So both sides were smart enough to stay on their sides, both sides built sieges and utilized aoe’s. There were small charges across the bridge but every charge got pushed back.

But then after about 20mins 1 mesmer got smart and went below, turns out there’s a route to the other side of the bridge from down below (remember this map is 3D with multi-layers). That 1 mesmer summoned portal for us, and a bunch of us jumped into the portal and hit the blob from their side of the bridge, while rest charged across the bridge. Needless to say 1 min later, they were all dead since they got sandwiched.

Clever use of strategy, 1 smart player who knew the map broke the stalemate and won the battle for us. Perfect example of “learn the map”.

Rottaran Owain.6789:

Should probably add to the list of notable CCs, the fear thieves get from necros.

If you don’t know where his fingers have been, you should assume the worst.

It’s fear me with a cast time. Just dodge it

Ricky Da Man.5064:

Don’t run straight at a Guardian standing at the end of a bridge holding a hammer if you don’t have stability…

Yes a Thief actually did this today, waved at me, then came charging shadow stepping and such, made a nice home run for me :P

I had this exact same thing happen to me with my guardian and a hammer….WAMMO!…off the bridge he went….do we have a problem with suicidal lemming thieves?

I just want to get the kitten achievement from the golem parts. I’ve made it to the center at least 4 times and got ganked before I could get them. Jerks. And yes you are a jerk. -_-

After I get the achievement then I will settle down and try and get even.

Qaelyn.7612:

The Gates Assassin.9827:

A lot of people say that trying to throw someone off a cliff is “Cheesy” or “requires no skill”. These are false.

Stealthing and then yanking/knocking someone requires MASSIVE skill!

Only a problem on Skyhammer with stealth pulls. On EoTM, you still need to be near a cliff side. EotM is also huge, so you can see someone stealth from far away. The likelyhood of someone actually getting a stealth CC is extremely unlikely on that map if you pay attention.

The problem isn’t that pushing players of cliffs is “cheesy” or “takes no skill,” but that there is not necessarily equal access to such knock backs or pulls across professions. Consider a d/d ele, who cannot swap in combat to staff for Gust (which is a horrible skill anyway and basically requires that an enemy be standing still) and otherwise has access to only a single launch of 200 on a 40s CD (Updraft). Compare that to, say, GS mesmer 5, LB ranger 4, or any Fear.

Granted these moves are still pretty easy to anticipate and avoid, but it’s just one more thing that one profession must heed mid-fight that the other might not, and I can see why it could be incredibly frustrating for new players especially, who may not be as familiar with other classes.

People also often forget that Warrior also has Kick and Stomp. XD I admit that I brought all three with me when getting the Golem parts just to discourage people trying to gank me.

Oh, and also Hammer for the pushback on skill 4.

Elestian.6134:

The problem isn’t that pushing players of cliffs is “cheesy” or “takes no skill,” but that there is not necessarily equal access to such knock backs or pulls across professions. Consider a d/d ele, who cannot swap in combat to staff for Gust (which is a horrible skill anyway and basically requires that an enemy be standing still) and otherwise has access to only a single launch of 200 on a 40s CD (Updraft). Compare that to, say, GS mesmer 5, LB ranger 4, or any Fear.

Granted these moves are still pretty easy to anticipate and avoid, but it’s just one more thing that one profession must heed mid-fight that the other might not, and I can see why it could be incredibly frustrating for new players especially, who may not be as familiar with other classes.

As a staff ele, you also have huge access to healing fields, fire fields, walls and blast finishers, making you a huge team asset. You also have tons of AoE damage for huge fights, access to some of the best and cheapest skills ever (Frost Bow and Fiery Greatsword) and great condi removal.

You are basing a build’s strength in how good it is against and with CC. On skyhammer, I can see that. On EoTM, there is so much more you can do.

Don’t forget Ranger Axe, though that’s a little trickier to pull with.

Reverence.6915:

Every class has access to stability (some more than others… necro vs guard…). Use it if you want to not fall off.

Anyone running Mantra of Concentration for this reason is going to change their mind almost as fast as their stability wears off.

Katz.5143:

I just want to get the kitten achievement from the golem parts. I’ve made it to the center at least 4 times and got ganked before I could get them. Jerks. And yes you are a jerk. -_-

After I get the achievement then I will settle down and try and get even.

Ever tried asking in map for people to help you with it, instead of thinking that you have to go alone and get killed?
Been on some overflow where a group of players organised an escort going out every half hour/45 minutes to that golem piece.
Red can even directly go get it in light form…
Else, running with the zerg until it passes near the map also worked for some…

Noone to help out on an OF? Just change OF and demand again…

Not getting the golem piece is usually not much a question of gankers, but more one of people thinking that they are above asking for help…

How to not fall off or be knocked, feared etc. of a cliff:

1. get on your War or Guard
2. Retrait for whatever gives you most stability, boon duration and lowers the CDs on your stabilities.
3. Equip hammer.
4. Time your stabilities while in combat and have 1 in reserve in case of a boon strip etc.
5. get on the other side of your opponent so now he/she is on the cliffside.
6. Watch their buffs, use hammer the moment their stability is off.
7. Laugh

Don’t have a war or guard ? Well, then you’re SOTL.

lol Not true had a dumb warrior jump down on top of the air port with me. My engi punted him.

Arnon.1563:

lol Not true had a dumb warrior jump down on top of the air port with me. My engi punted him.

True.

But as you stated, he was dumb, probobly a PVEer. The ones that have a human ability to read descriptions when they run a mouse cursor over their traits/skills, then get a little practice, will be less dumb and the outcome will be different.

On a side note, since so many many PVEers lack the above mentioned skill, are they human ?

Tongku.5326:

Arnon.1563:

lol Not true had a dumb warrior jump down on top of the air port with me. My engi punted him.

True.

But as you stated, he was dumb, probobly a PVEer. The ones that have a human ability to read descriptions when they run a mouse cursor over their traits/skills, then get a little practice, will be less dumb and the outcome will be different.

On a side note, since so many many PVEers lack the above mentioned skill, are they human ?

What a wonderful mentality for the WvW player-base to have…

No wonder there are so many PvE players opposed to this update, and WvW in general.

It amazes me that ANet focuses on banning players for “exploits” (that may or may not be clearly exploitation)…
While they don’t really seem to do much in terms of discouraging negative/disrespectful players.

LoL is known for banning disrespectful players.

Minos.5168:

What a wonderful mentality for the WvW player-base to have…

No wonder there are so many PvE players opposed to this update, and WvW in general.

Please don’t confuse elitist with the “WvW player-base”. Also, never generalize. Otherwise you are no better than those you despise.

If there are enemies in front of you and you still choose to cross the bridge to get to them, it’s your fault if you fall…

The Gates Assassin.9827:

You are basing a build’s strength in how good it is against and with CC. On skyhammer, I can see that. On EoTM, there is so much more you can do.

Access to skills and utilities is independent of build. I agree, eles have other ways of offering support that make them valuable in their own right, especially in zerg fights. But as far as environmental hazards go (i.e. pushing an enemy off a cliff), that is not something so easily managed with the tools at ele’s disposal compared to other classes. While I don’t think anyone expects all classes to be exactly the same and have equal access to all such abilities, there’s always room for improvement in terms of balance and level design.

I recall a point made by Valve regarding their balancing of TF2, where they noted that players enjoyed the game most — even when they died — so long as they felt that they could have done something to prevent it. (This is probably horribly paraphrased, but you get the idea.)

Access to stability in GW2 is limited, as it should be. This strikes a great balance with access to CC with some exceptions, but again, room for improvement. Being knocked or pulled off a cliff has the feeling of circumventing GW2’s combat system altogether, and I imagine that to be the greatest source of frustration. The skills, utilities, and tools at the disposal of your class (and their balance with those of other classes) don’t have a chance to shine.

Let me be clear, I don’t have some vendetta here. I only occasionally get knocked off of Skyhammer (which most people would agree is the greater offender here) as I usually position myself to avoid the common pushes/pulls. I just don’t think it’s in the “spirit” (whatever the hell that means :P) of GW2’s combat, and it’s something that the developers have control over. I don’t think EotM is so bad.

Elestian.6134:

Access to stability in GW2 is limited, as it should be. This strikes a great balance with access to CC with some exceptions, but again, room for improvement. Being knocked or pulled off a cliff has the feeling of circumventing GW2’s combat system altogether, and I imagine that to be the greatest source of frustration. The skills, utilities, and tools at the disposal of your class (and their balance with those of other classes) don’t have a chance to shine.

The source of frustration is that you are being CCed, and some players don’t like that. They think there’s nothing they can do about it. The point of this post is that they are completely wrong and there is actually A LOT you can do about it. You also have to realize that this isn’t circumventing GW2’s combat system. It’s a major part of it.

Play a class that has these cc-skills and try to play it. Soon you will realize you can’t use these skill everywhere. Switch back to your class and don’t walk where you can be cced to death easily.
Stability isn’t necessary. But it helps.

As always knowledge is the key.

I will continue to punish everyone that doesn’t know what he’s doing.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

They think there’s nothing they can do about it. The point of this post is that they are completely wrong and there is actually A LOT you can do about it.

Yes — you can switch to a class designed for a combat environment oriented around constantly being CCed.

BTW Don’t forget: Guardian Greatsword #5 (Binding Blade), The pull can be used to drag a few people off the edge at a time. I’ve killed a bit of people like this.