Guild Wars 2

Why do pve players whine about LW in EoTM – fist of all there are now queues so you can get in anytime you want – no more “I can’t adjust it to my playtime” arguments. There are no server specifications so even low-pop servers gain same amount of people as T1 servers do. You are not restricted to playing alone. The only difference is that there are more hostile creatures – be it Legendary Bosses or players.

Yes but you can run in groups of five or 6 that’s it its no zerging. People just like to whine a lot

its not “pvers” remember there are thousands of people playing this game at a given time, more specifically its certain people on the forums who like to complain and make it seem like an issue when it really is not especially with common sense.

to be honest I strongly suspect a good number of the pver “whiner” posts are troll posts

g e o.2589:

Why do pve players whine about LW in EoTM – fist of all there are now queues so you can get in anytime you want – no more “I can’t adjust it to my playtime” arguments. There are no server specifications so even low-pop servers gain same amount of people as T1 servers do. You are not restricted to playing alone. The only difference is that there are more hostile creatures – be it Legendary Bosses or players.

The two things that make PVE players complain about PVE:

1. PVE players basically have a sort of combination of fear, anxiety, and anger at competition and the idea of other players being able to kill them.

2. In GW2, the mechanics of NPCs are extremely easy to predict and avoid. This makes it hard for PVE players to go into PvP where they are just taking advantage of some poorly designed NPC that simply requires them to dodge at the right moment every few seconds.

Danikat.8537:

Most of them just don’t like the idea that other players can kill them. Yes things attack and kill you in PvE too but they’re usually a lot easier to beat and not as persistent.

timidobserver.7925:

g e o.2589:

Why do pve players whine about LW in EoTM – fist of all there are now queues so you can get in anytime you want – no more “I can’t adjust it to my playtime” arguments. There are no server specifications so even low-pop servers gain same amount of people as T1 servers do. You are not restricted to playing alone. The only difference is that there are more hostile creatures – be it Legendary Bosses or players.

The two things that make PVE players complain about PVE:

1. PVE players basically have a sort of combination of fear, anxiety, and anger at competition and the idea of other players being able to kill them.

2. In GW2, the mechanics of NPCs are extremely easy to predict and avoid. This makes it hard for PVE players to go into PvP where they are just taking advantage of some poorly designed NPC that simply requires them to dodge at the right moment every few seconds.

this is what happens when good PvE players go into wvw:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCaEGzBkEuo

seriously, scripted AI is better than 99% of the wvw and pvp players.

Some of us (yes, including myself) simply and strongly dislike being at odds with people. Even in a video game.

Give me an NPC boss that’s as tough as a good PvP player, and adaptive, and I’ll give it a shot. There’s a solid chance I may even enjoy taking it on in a fair fight, even if I lose.

Give me a player to fight in PvP, even an unskilled one that I can easily beat, and I’ll feel bad. Uncomfortable. I’ll worry that they were having a bad day, and instead of getting to blow off a bit of steam, I just added that final straw that takes them from unhappy to miserable, or something similar. It may not be rational, but it’s there.

With all that said, I’m thrilled they’re putting the LS into PvP areas. I hope it’s such an unmitigated disaster that they finally realize that the game modes need to be kept separate. No more forcing players into other parts of the game against their wishes.

In other words:
Go. Hunt. Kill Skuls… err noobs.

NoTrigger.8396:

timidobserver.7925:

g e o.2589:

Why do pve players whine about LW in EoTM – fist of all there are now queues so you can get in anytime you want – no more “I can’t adjust it to my playtime” arguments. There are no server specifications so even low-pop servers gain same amount of people as T1 servers do. You are not restricted to playing alone. The only difference is that there are more hostile creatures – be it Legendary Bosses or players.

The two things that make PVE players complain about PVE:

1. PVE players basically have a sort of combination of fear, anxiety, and anger at competition and the idea of other players being able to kill them.

2. In GW2, the mechanics of NPCs are extremely easy to predict and avoid. This makes it hard for PVE players to go into PvP where they are just taking advantage of some poorly designed NPC that simply requires them to dodge at the right moment every few seconds.

this is what happens when good PvE players go into wvw:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCaEGzBkEuo

seriously, scripted AI is better than 99% of the wvw and pvp players.

Nice video. Though it doesn’t prove much other than that Necros are pretty powerful in WvW. The only down side to playing one is the lack of ability to escape when the zerg runs up on you.

Given that this person is actually in WvW, it doesn’t really apply to anything I said. I was referring primarily to the people that would hyperventilate if they even went into WvW at all.

Sadly, I see this PvE bunker mindset as the very reason that marionette fails so much. It breeds a lack of adaptability and a reliance on repeated abilities. Often its the WvW and pvp players who tackle the conduit guardians the best because they actually have immobilise and other useful stuff on their task-bar.

None of your concerns are anything I’ve ever heard about LS content in WvW, lol…

Most PVEers who hate this sort of thing hate it because they hate PVP.

Think about it this way. If you don’t play PVP, you’re probably not good at PVP, at least by comparison to someone who plays PVP almost every day. In the event of the JP in EB, when they had the LS content in there it was easy for the big PVP players to, essentially, keep PVEers from being able to do the content. For the people who get into PVP the competition of, “Ohohoho, u cant troll me i keel u >:D” race to the end of the JP was fun. But for the people who don’t stand a chance, it just set the whole thing up for obnoxious gameplay.

I know a player who is anti-PvP because once she steps foot inside a PvP area, she basically has anxiety issues. She once said it affects her breathing, but I don’t know more than that. I once got her to play arenas in WoW a long time ago, which I think was her first actual PvP experience, but she only lasted around 10 games before quitting and saying she never wanted to do it again. We won a lot of the games even though we were severely undergeared (imagine blues vs exotics).

After finding out that world completion required PvP, she simply stopped logging in and hasn’t since then. She never asked for a refund or complained, she just uninstalled and walked away. She now saw the game as a PvP game and assumed that PvP would be forced on her in the future. For the record, she didn’t care about legendaries, she just wanted to explore the world.

Games seem to be forcing PvP more and more now, whereas it used to be clearly separated, like how PvE and PvP servers are. Even WoW is trying to force it.

Healix.5819:

I know a player who is anti-PvP because once she steps foot inside a PvP area, she basically has anxiety issues. She once said it affects her breathing, but I don’t know more than that. I once got her to play arenas in WoW a long time ago, which I think was her first actual PvP experience, but she only lasted around 10 games before quitting and saying she never wanted to do it again. We won a lot of the games even though we were severely undergeared (imagine blues vs exotics).

After finding out that world completion required PvP, she simply stopped logging in and hasn’t since then. She never asked for a refund or complained, she just uninstalled and walked away. She now saw the game as a PvP game and assumed that PvP would be forced on her in the future. For the record, she didn’t care about legendaries, she just wanted to explore the world.

Games seem to be forcing PvP more and more now, whereas it used to be clearly separated, like how PvE and PvP servers are. Even WoW is trying to force it.

I think the problem is more with her than the game. It is going to sound cold, but game developers can’t design their game to accommodate every condition that a person may have.

NoTrigger.8396:

Danikat.8537:

Most of them just don’t like the idea that other players can kill them. Yes things attack and kill you in PvE too but they’re usually a lot easier to beat and not as persistent.

timidobserver.7925:

g e o.2589:

Why do pve players whine about LW in EoTM – fist of all there are now queues so you can get in anytime you want – no more “I can’t adjust it to my playtime” arguments. There are no server specifications so even low-pop servers gain same amount of people as T1 servers do. You are not restricted to playing alone. The only difference is that there are more hostile creatures – be it Legendary Bosses or players.

The two things that make PVE players complain about PVE:

1. PVE players basically have a sort of combination of fear, anxiety, and anger at competition and the idea of other players being able to kill them.

2. In GW2, the mechanics of NPCs are extremely easy to predict and avoid. This makes it hard for PVE players to go into PvP where they are just taking advantage of some poorly designed NPC that simply requires them to dodge at the right moment every few seconds.

this is what happens when good PvE players go into wvw:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCaEGzBkEuo

seriously, scripted AI is better than 99% of the wvw and pvp players.

Nice try but that is a wvw player and the guys chasing are the pve ones.

They don’t want to drop a precursor for the player that killed them…

Ha!Ha! PvE noob, not only did I kill you but I looted Dawn from your corpse…Ha!Ha!

timidobserver.7925:

I think the problem is more with her than the game. It is going to sound cold, but game developers can’t design their game to accommodate every condition that a person may have.

It’s a more common problem than you might think. Most people who run into something like that just do what she did, they quietly walk away. The forums are the vocal minority, after all.

And the problem wasn’t with the game. The problem was with the Devs trying to pressure her into PvP by putting one of the big PvE goals behind a layer of PvP. Had they not done that, then she might still be playing. (I say “might” because I do not know this person, so I can’t really speak for her.)

I doubt she’s the only one that quietly gave up on the game due to this. The new LS will make even more quit. Given that there’s no subscription fee or way to quit, I have to wonder if ANet’s numbers reflect this, or if they’ll just continue to count all these as “active” accounts.

As a PvE primary with sPvP and WvW experience I can say I like sPvP better.

In sPvP you’re thrown right back into the action, even if your team sucks (which is frustrating) you can still keep trying.

WvW is a different game, and it IS all about time investment. The 15 minutes you spent getting to the other side of the map is at risk for example. If you want to unlock that last POI for map exploration you have to wait for the zerg/commander to FINALLY decide to go for that last tower.

Most times they don’t.

Then when you die because you got tired of playing keep-up with the zerg, you look at your map and found they went for it… but you can’t get to it again in time.

THAT is the real answer to the “time” element in the OP. Hopping into WvW does not immediately put you in a place where you can get things done. If you’re zerging instead of roaming, the killcredit/framerate/keep-up is worse than the Frostgorge champ farm. If you’re roaming, you may start getting kills in the first minute or it may take you twenty or more, especially for new players who haven’t spent time enough researching builds and methods.

Some times all you need to do is ask in map chat. We’ve specifically helped many people get POI’s that they’ve needed for world completion, and you know what? It actually feels good to help someone else out.

Granted certain POI’s may be difficult to get due to certain factors, but never be afraid to ask, you don’t even have to physically say anything, just type a few words, try your luck.

aspirine.6852:

NoTrigger.8396:

Danikat.8537:

Most of them just don’t like the idea that other players can kill them. Yes things attack and kill you in PvE too but they’re usually a lot easier to beat and not as persistent.

timidobserver.7925:

g e o.2589:

Why do pve players whine about LW in EoTM – fist of all there are now queues so you can get in anytime you want – no more “I can’t adjust it to my playtime” arguments. There are no server specifications so even low-pop servers gain same amount of people as T1 servers do. You are not restricted to playing alone. The only difference is that there are more hostile creatures – be it Legendary Bosses or players.

The two things that make PVE players complain about PVE:

1. PVE players basically have a sort of combination of fear, anxiety, and anger at competition and the idea of other players being able to kill them.

2. In GW2, the mechanics of NPCs are extremely easy to predict and avoid. This makes it hard for PVE players to go into PvP where they are just taking advantage of some poorly designed NPC that simply requires them to dodge at the right moment every few seconds.

this is what happens when good PvE players go into wvw:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCaEGzBkEuo

seriously, scripted AI is better than 99% of the wvw and pvp players.

Nice try but that is a wvw player and the guys chasing are the pve ones.

nice try but he is not. he is my guild mate. he is a PvE player named Dub from the top PvE guild retaliate [rT] and the guys chasing are the wvw ones.

gg no re

I been working for different companies regarding security and i can tell you pvp always has the worst communities.

NoTrigger.8396:

nice try but he is not. he is my guild mate. he is a PvE player named Dub from the top PvE guild retaliate [rT] and the guys chasing are the wvw ones.

gg no re

No wonder he was using one of the most broken, passive builds in the entire game then. The reason why 1vX happens in wvw is because the x are fairweathers and karma trainers; aka pvers using builds that are not suitable for small scale pvp while the 1 is using a build minmaxed for the purpose. It’s a zero skill win, just like 100% of pve.

Try winning a 1v3 as a gvg spec staff ele and you might qualify for moderately skilled at pvp.

I think they are just ticked off that in the first 2 of 4 content releases of the year they feel they cannot do because they cannot face roll it and play it by themselves.

i think the only valid concern was poi’s, and people mostly complain because they are impatient, something is broken, or they don’t want to lose an exploit. wvw has as much lore as it needs and you can easily get your poi’s depending on what server you’re on and when.. if there are open world pvp servers they are typically Very low population, so that pretty much speaks for itself..
i bought gw2 for pvE and i’ve spent most of my time in wvw, i don’t think anyone “forced” into wvw will find it ‘impossible’ to adapt to

Coldtart.4785:

NoTrigger.8396:

nice try but he is not. he is my guild mate. he is a PvE player named Dub from the top PvE guild retaliate [rT] and the guys chasing are the wvw ones.

gg no re

No wonder he was using one of the most broken, passive builds in the entire game then. The reason why 1vX happens in wvw is because the x are fairweathers and karma trainers; aka pvers using builds that are not suitable for small scale pvp while the 1 is using a build minmaxed for the purpose. It’s a zero skill win, just like 100% of pve.

Try winning a 1v3 as a gvg spec staff ele and you might qualify for moderately skilled at pvp.

if you think necros are that broken and if you have so much trouble against them when all you have to do is CC them, you should stop playing maybe.

try soloing lupi and you might qualify for moderately skilled at the game.
given you think there is zero skill involved, it shouldnt be difficult for you at all.
feel free to send me a pm with the link to your video when you are done.

timidobserver.7925:

The two things that make PVE players complain about PVE:

1. PVE players basically have a sort of combination of fear, anxiety, and anger at competition and the idea of other players being able to kill them.

2. In GW2, the mechanics of NPCs are extremely easy to predict and avoid. This makes it hard for PVE players to go into PvP where they are just taking advantage of some poorly designed NPC that simply requires them to dodge at the right moment every few seconds.

Funny man, I’m a strictly pve player in gw because i don’t like pvp in MMO’s. They are too much RNG driven for me. And the usual kittening that goes on in MMO PvP circles is just too much adolescent testosterone for me to handle.

So to respond:
1: No it’s because we simply don’t like it. It has nothing to do with fear of dying. You are welcome to come fight me in FPS or RTS games whenever you want. In those games I love to PvP. So, afraid of dying, anxiety, rly? Can you come up with more kittened reasons pls?

2. Yes, indeed, pve is easier overall. Which is exactly why i play it, to relax. If I want to focus on what I’m doing then I’ll play 1v1, not some MMO pvp nonsense which mostly comes down to zerging eachother, and where one’s personal influence on the outcome of a battle is minimal. And claiming WvW is hard is quite a stretch, I’ve tried it a few times, then switched to my ele, hooked up on a zerg and just aoe’d every zerg i met, was this hard? Not at all, it was stupidly easy, and i got kill after kill after kill, by simply spamming aoe’s on the ground without even targetting one guy specifically.
That is not pvp to me. PvP should be about skill, and not RNG nonsense, or massive battles on which you simply don’t really have an effect. You could tell me to play another char in WvW so that I can’t just aoe everything, but the problem is, there are still ppl doing it, which pretty much nullifies any form of skill required. Of course when you are in a small group or alone skill does come into play, but I’ve only very rarely seen this happen in my brief time in WvW.

The same reason WvW players have been complaining for the past few months, none of us want LS tied to any part of WvW. This is just a story-reason to implement EOTM in.

NoTrigger.8396:

aspirine.6852:

NoTrigger.8396:

Danikat.8537:

Most of them just don’t like the idea that other players can kill them. Yes things attack and kill you in PvE too but they’re usually a lot easier to beat and not as persistent.

timidobserver.7925:

g e o.2589:

Why do pve players whine about LW in EoTM – fist of all there are now queues so you can get in anytime you want – no more “I can’t adjust it to my playtime” arguments. There are no server specifications so even low-pop servers gain same amount of people as T1 servers do. You are not restricted to playing alone. The only difference is that there are more hostile creatures – be it Legendary Bosses or players.

The two things that make PVE players complain about PVE:

1. PVE players basically have a sort of combination of fear, anxiety, and anger at competition and the idea of other players being able to kill them.

2. In GW2, the mechanics of NPCs are extremely easy to predict and avoid. This makes it hard for PVE players to go into PvP where they are just taking advantage of some poorly designed NPC that simply requires them to dodge at the right moment every few seconds.

this is what happens when good PvE players go into wvw:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCaEGzBkEuo

seriously, scripted AI is better than 99% of the wvw and pvp players.

Nice try but that is a wvw player and the guys chasing are the pve ones.

nice try but he is not. he is my guild mate. he is a PvE player named Dub from the top PvE guild retaliate [rT] and the guys chasing are the wvw ones.

gg no re

Ah is that why is is running a meta wvw necro build . He knows very well where he is going and the people after him are pve players from dzago. Except for the thief general but he just sux. The rest are wvw league players, also known as pve players.

NoTrigger.8396:

aspirine.6852:

NoTrigger.8396:

Danikat.8537:

Most of them just don’t like the idea that other players can kill them. Yes things attack and kill you in PvE too but they’re usually a lot easier to beat and not as persistent.

timidobserver.7925:

g e o.2589:

Why do pve players whine about LW in EoTM – fist of all there are now queues so you can get in anytime you want – no more “I can’t adjust it to my playtime” arguments. There are no server specifications so even low-pop servers gain same amount of people as T1 servers do. You are not restricted to playing alone. The only difference is that there are more hostile creatures – be it Legendary Bosses or players.

The two things that make PVE players complain about PVE:

1. PVE players basically have a sort of combination of fear, anxiety, and anger at competition and the idea of other players being able to kill them.

2. In GW2, the mechanics of NPCs are extremely easy to predict and avoid. This makes it hard for PVE players to go into PvP where they are just taking advantage of some poorly designed NPC that simply requires them to dodge at the right moment every few seconds.

this is what happens when good PvE players go into wvw:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCaEGzBkEuo

seriously, scripted AI is better than 99% of the wvw and pvp players.

Nice try but that is a wvw player and the guys chasing are the pve ones.

nice try but he is not. he is my guild mate. he is a PvE player named Dub from the top PvE guild retaliate [rT] and the guys chasing are the wvw ones.

gg no re

Sounds like a general hardcore player guild to me, and those other players were just terrible tbh.

They whine because if you’re just trying to PvE and if you’re forced into an open-world PvP zone, and you’re being killed over and over, it’s not fun. I know this from experience trying to level for the first time in Aion. Once you have some experience and gear it gets better but…Guild Wars 2 does love it’s zergs and mini-groups who are more than happy to try to chase you across the whole map. Whilst I don’t mind that the LS will be in WvW I’m not too put off by it but I can certainly understand the concerns of those who are. We are of course yet to see how it’s going to be implemented, and if it will be campable/griefable.

I also recall reading somewhere that the server matchings in EotM will change more often so I suppose if you’re against two strong servers there then it wont be too long before you rematch to a potentially more balanced server matching?

I have an idea, however, which may combat the “I don’t want to be player-killed” PvE croud to a certain extent. Have a setting to say you’re neutral in Edge of the Mists. Your “<Server Name> Invader” tag turns yellow instead of red. That way you can still be attacked by WvW-ers who want to kill everyone in sight, but any who are happy to let PvE-ers go about their business unharmed can tell at a glance. Goes without saying that as soon as a “neutral” player attacks another player, whether directly or just in AoE then their name would colour back to Red for a minimum amount of time (15 mins?). This seems fair. It gives WvW-ers who don’t want to grief the option to ignore those players who clearly don’t want to fight, but it wont stop campers and WvW-ers who just want to kill everything they see.

Flissy.4093:

The same reason WvW players have been complaining for the past few months, none of us want LS tied to any part of WvW. This is just a story-reason to implement EOTM in.

i wvw and pve and i hate having ls in wvw. when i wvw i do with a friend or too and got my own time and having fun when i pve im usually alone and trying to just get dailies or working on monthly or achievements.

Palador.2170:

timidobserver.7925:

I think the problem is more with her than the game. It is going to sound cold, but game developers can’t design their game to accommodate every condition that a person may have.

It’s a more common problem than you might think. Most people who run into something like that just do what she did, they quietly walk away. The forums are the vocal minority, after all.

And the problem wasn’t with the game. The problem was with the Devs trying to pressure her into PvP by putting one of the big PvE goals behind a layer of PvP. Had they not done that, then she might still be playing. (I say “might” because I do not know this person, so I can’t really speak for her.)

I doubt she’s the only one that quietly gave up on the game due to this. The new LS will make even more quit. Given that there’s no subscription fee or way to quit, I have to wonder if ANet’s numbers reflect this, or if they’ll just continue to count all these as “active” accounts.

In that specific case i would bet she has a social anxiety disorder. She probably has an aversion to conflict. One that may only apply when she can’t confront someone face to face. I had a similar thing where i couldn’t call anyone over the phone or text/email them. It sounds like a medical problem to me.

losbananas.8674:

2. Yes, indeed, pve is easier overall. Which is exactly why i play it, to relax. If I want to focus on what I’m doing then I’ll play 1v1, not some MMO pvp nonsense which mostly comes down to zerging eachother, and where one’s personal influence on the outcome of a battle is minimal. And claiming WvW is hard is quite a stretch, I’ve tried it a few times, then switched to my ele, hooked up on a zerg and just aoe’d every zerg i met, was this hard? Not at all, it was stupidly easy, and i got kill after kill after kill, by simply spamming aoe’s on the ground without even targetting one guy specifically.
That is not pvp to me. PvP should be about skill, and not RNG nonsense, or massive battles on which you simply don’t really have an effect. You could tell me to play another char in WvW so that I can’t just aoe everything, but the problem is, there are still ppl doing it, which pretty much nullifies any form of skill required. Of course when you are in a small group or alone skill does come into play, but I’ve only very rarely seen this happen in my brief time in WvW.

EoTM is not designed for zergs though, it is designed for small scale skirmishes. Which means that the aoe spam strategy probably wont work. Also displacement skills will be extremely effective. I can already see the people who are best at knocking people off the islands as being the kings of this map.

Also PvP and PvE feel exactly the same to me. With the only difference being my enemies are named after the servers and usually have better “AI” in the PvP sections.
Also i really want story elements in PvP. >.>

If i look at myself, then i can say i tried every part of the game. I have played WvW in the past, spent a couple of hundreds of hours there, played sPvP and made a bit of a fortune there lately.
But i mainly enjoy PvE. And i don´t think that LS in WvW is a good idea. And most of the PvE players are whining because they´re simply not enjoying WvW

At least GW2 has, up until now, kept PvP & PvE separate.

As an avid PvEr, I dislike the unorganized riot mentality of WvW. How, to survive, MOST people have to join up with a zerg. I also dislike the egos and attitudes of the so-called “commanders”. I don’t mind PvP in a small scale, but when 4 or 5 or more players kill a solo running player it isn’t skill, it’s mob mentality.

As for LS in WvW, I despise it. Most of it is hard enough without the added threat of other players who are only looking to rank up. On the other hand, I’ve heard many WvWers complain LOUDLY about the upcoming LS content.

This game is becoming less and less about playing how you want and more and more about being forced into a certain play style. And if/when they introduce dueling in open PvE I will probably quit playing as that is what I hated about other MMOs. Obnoxious children following me around challenging me while I’m trying to lvl or do events is tedious.

NoTrigger.8396:

this is what happens when good PvE players go into wvw:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCaEGzBkEuo

seriously, scripted AI is better than 99% of the wvw and pvp players.

note that this was a 1v4 senario, and the 4 skilled PvE players got destryed by one WvW veteran. iv have been one shotted by thieves, dealt roughly 0 damage to a warrior as a zerker ele using DD(10 second fight before he downed me), lost target of a mesmer 30 times in 2 minutes, and numerous other things. PvE players cant take this at all. it sucks. you find that you don’t deal any real damage to opponents, while at the same time they burst you down in seconds. its just not fun.

yeh ^ that’s gw2 un-balance for you.. it’s a headache for anyone who wants to play in the diversity/versatile way the game was meant to be.. whiners will whine but i can’t wait until a week or two from now when tons of pvE players realize they can hop into non-pvE and gain a fair amount of domination just by going cookie-cutter

CalmestChaos.2463:

NoTrigger.8396:

this is what happens when good PvE players go into wvw:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCaEGzBkEuo

seriously, scripted AI is better than 99% of the wvw and pvp players.

note that this was a 1v4 senario, and the 4 skilled PvE players got destryed by one WvW veteran. iv have been one shotted by thieves, dealt roughly 0 damage to a warrior as a zerker ele using DD(10 second fight before he downed me), lost target of a mesmer 30 times in 2 minutes, and numerous other things. PvE players cant take this at all. it sucks. you find that you don’t deal any real damage to opponents, while at the same time they burst you down in seconds. its just not fun.

its exactly the other way around. he isnt a wvw veteran. HE IS THE PVE veteran.

The difference is that PVP is not designed to be a challenge but to provide the environment where players create their own challenges. You don’t always get to chose what challenge to tackle, hence there’s a very good chance you will be forced into something you’re not equipped to deal with. PVP players accept this, being in a disadvantageous position is the only way to judge how far your skill has grown—it’s part of the reason they’re there. There’s no shame in being stomped by a better player, it’s just another opportunity to learn.

By contrast people play PVE to relax, enjoy the story, explore the game world and tackle challenging content with their friends. They play for the immersion, for the escapism, and to while away the hours in an entertaining fashion. Personal achievement is certainly nice, and it’s part of the reason people keep playing, but it’s not the primary concern behind every hour spent online.

Which brings us to the next patch. Most PVE’rs don’t have a problem with PVP, they have a problem with content that has a swift and steep difficulty curve accompanied by an equally sharp learning curve. Putting the same content on a clock means many won’t have the time to learn what they need to succeed.

When you combine these problems with a player faction who’s primary interest will be in providing an insurmountable challenge for these players while largely ignoring the story-based content that brought everyone else there, it’s easy to see why people get upset.

For the most part, arenanet has been good about designing Living Story content that allows the story to be accessible while the rest is free to be completed or ignored as players see fit. So long as the “story” part of this patch can be experienced without undue frustration (i.e, hours of re-spawn running due to camping PVP’ers) I don’t see it being a problem.

Compared to our whining when there is PvE content in WvW? Oh yes, trust me, I have done my fair share of complaining about that PvE content – and will continue to do so.

Sarie.1630:

They whine because if you’re just trying to PvE and if you’re forced into an open-world PvP zone, and you’re being killed over and over, it’s not fun. I know this from experience trying to level for the first time in Aion.

Haha yes, been there, done that. I stopped playing Aion because of the forced PvP. I do not mean forced PvP as in “there is no PvP off switch”, but as in “areas which hold important PvE content are also PvP zones”. I have no problem with dedicated PvP zones you can go to when you fancy some trashtalk fun, but having to put up with players who are only there to grief others when all you want to do is complete your quest log is extremely annoying. Aion is a fun PvE game as long as you are in the lower level zones, because the other faction cannot enter. But later on, the other faction can sometimes enter the lvling zones with higher level players and farm newbies, and one area is even completely shared by both factions so that you are guaranteed to have PvP whenever you go there. So if you want to go to some quest spot to do your PvE stuff, you can be sure that some high lvl ganker is just waiting there to “lolnoob” you. Of course you could always bring a full party of friends, but sometimes you just want to log on and solo for half an hour, or maybe your friends are simply not online.

Giving players fun PvE stuff and then later on saying “guess what? PvP time!” is just bait-and-switch. Not nice. I specifically went away from Aion (and for what it’s worth, Lineage 2) because I had enough of PvP and GW2 promised that I never had to do PvP unless I wanted to. I go to WvW – when i feel like it. And that is not when I want to do PvE.

NoTrigger.8396:

this is what happens when good PvE players go into wvw:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCaEGzBkEuo

Good enough to exploit the ranged attack jiggle from what i can tell.

Seeing the video i really wish the control scheme of the game was more like Neverwinter, as i pull stuff like that all the time in said game but find it aggravating to even attempt in GW2.

MarzAttakz.9608:

Some times all you need to do is ask in map chat. We’ve specifically helped many people get POI’s that they’ve needed for world completion, and you know what? It actually feels good to help someone else out.

Granted certain POI’s may be difficult to get due to certain factors, but never be afraid to ask, you don’t even have to physically say anything, just type a few words, try your luck.

It’s how I got some particular skill points, and I’ve seen favorable responses to sometimes “Do you guys think we can take Hills/Bay if we prep for a bit? I need to get inside.”

It’s requests for Stonemist which get laughed off sometimes It’s why I tend to announce it’s on our server’s hands in LA if I see such and am passing through.

Vampirial.9056:

Also displacement skills will be extremely effective. I can already see the people who are best at knocking people off the islands as being the kings of this map.

Are you . . . are you suggesting my launch skills like Point Blank Shot have a use now other than to annoy people any time they see it?

Ooooh.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Vampirial.9056:

Also displacement skills will be extremely effective. I can already see the people who are best at knocking people off the islands as being the kings of this map.

Are you . . . are you suggesting my launch skills like Point Blank Shot have a use now other than to annoy people any time they see it?

Ooooh.

yes, now they annoy the enemy side Like my Illusionary Wave

g e o.2589:

Yes but you can run in groups of five or 6 that’s it its no zerging. People just like to whine a lot

It seems like you’re the whiner.

What I’m about to say, I don’t say to put anyone down, nor toot my own horn. But, truth be told, the vast majority of players either lack the skill, intellect, or both to play the game at a competitive level . . . much less against other players.

Most don’t want to research or study their class, much less learn tactics or traits, to ensure victory.

If you’re in doubt, watch players die to events repeatedly as they stand in red circles that warn of impending death. Listen to players beg to know where certain waypoints or events are, when an in-game mail and messages tells them where. Read chat responses about certain classes or quests being impossible while some solo it.

The problem with WvW is you must bring your A-Game against certain players. Because those players will bring theirs against you. By no stretch of the imagination, am I the best out there. But, I also know when you WvW, if you’re the worst . . . you’ll suffer.

The zerg mentality will only take you so far.

as a 100% pve player I can tell you pretty easily.

PVP in any form is an annoyance….

PVP is SIGNIFICANTLY more difficult than PVE, as I often say to people jumping into PVP for the first time::

“To some of those guys it’s not a game, it’s a religion, and they worship daily…”

and to even have a hope in hell of coming out of such an encounter in one piece, you better be at least somewhat up on the religion yourself, which most PVE players, myself included, are not. Mainly because we don’t have to be.

In PVE while general mobs in the world are somewhat predictable most can throw a zinger or two your way, getting adds mid-fight (especially in places like Orr) can be cause for alarm but you generally have time to consider a plan of action versus the capabilities of the opponent and decide if you legitimately have a chance or if you need to run.

this doesn’t happen in PVP… In PVP it goes a little something like this:

bump into a GOOD pvp’er = dead
bump into multiple pvp’ers = dead
actually doing somewhat ok against one then more come along = dead

Dead… dead… dead again. It’s annoying when all you want to do is get this discovery and leave.

when I got my world completion I pretty much followed the zerg and hoped they were going somewhere I needed to go or logged in NOT during server prime time when my server had 90% or more zone control. Not exactly my idea of a good time but what options are there? Running solo in PVP is sorta like showing up at a banquet as the main course complete with the pot to cook yourself in, eleven herbs and spices, and a recipe book on the best way you should be prepared to boot.

so, as I said… it’s an annoyance. it’s not just about getting killed, that happens in PVE too however in PVP it’s more so because it can happen with “Impressive” regularity pretty much bringing to a screeching halt what you REALLY want to do. In short… it gets in the way too much. We don’t care about queue’s being instant so we can get in quicker…. we don’t want to go at all.

So now the next arc of the Living Story seems to be poised in WvW, creating what PVE players see as an impending cluster —--. Not sure I have feels for that, it’s ok though.. I have other games.

Tsubaki.8732:

Sarie.1630:

They whine because if you’re just trying to PvE and if you’re forced into an open-world PvP zone, and you’re being killed over and over, it’s not fun. I know this from experience trying to level for the first time in Aion.

Haha yes, been there, done that. I stopped playing Aion because of the forced PvP. I do not mean forced PvP as in “there is no PvP off switch”, but as in “areas which hold important PvE content are also PvP zones”. I have no problem with dedicated PvP zones you can go to when you fancy some trashtalk fun, but having to put up with players who are only there to grief others when all you want to do is complete your quest log is extremely annoying. Aion is a fun PvE game as long as you are in the lower level zones, because the other faction cannot enter. But later on, the other faction can sometimes enter the lvling zones with higher level players and farm newbies, and one area is even completely shared by both factions so that you are guaranteed to have PvP whenever you go there. So if you want to go to some quest spot to do your PvE stuff, you can be sure that some high lvl ganker is just waiting there to “lolnoob” you. Of course you could always bring a full party of friends, but sometimes you just want to log on and solo for half an hour, or maybe your friends are simply not online.

Yeah .. i quitted Aion when i wanted to bring my second character to 43-44 so that i could level the rest in Theobomus, even if there were just quests starting at 45, but i rather wanted to grind those levels like i did on my first character.

However then i was killed by a group of lvl 50 characters 3-4 time in 30 minutes, and i just quitted and never logged in again.

In the 20-35 zones at least when i was jumped from other there was mostly a chance to fight back and even win now and then, however in Heiron after the game was out for over 6 months, there were more players of the other faction than of your own it seemed, and of course all full geared lvl 50s, while it was a leveling area for 35-45 .. it was just plain horrible.

At first i thought to myself “Big deal… there has been plenty of LS content that i, as a wvw player, cared nothing about.”

However, here’s the thing. Doing PvE isnt difficult, i can easily take my WvW build character and do LS content. Dungeons, pve zerging, fetch-quests. Simple.

But, the otherway around can be punished… brutally. Infact often the way to build for pve is very wrong for wvw. PvE is easy enough that it promotes squishy, high-damage builds to clear content as far as possible.
In WvW however, this promotes getting insta-gibbed by things you never expect and possibly, litterally, never saw comming.

Safe to say people like Palador are in the minority. Most people are just whining about being bad and probably because zerking won’t be as effective.

Palador.2170:

Some of us (yes, including myself) simply and strongly dislike being at odds with people. Even in a video game.

Give me an NPC boss that’s as tough as a good PvP player, and adaptive, and I’ll give it a shot. There’s a solid chance I may even enjoy taking it on in a fair fight, even if I lose.

Give me a player to fight in PvP, even an unskilled one that I can easily beat, and I’ll feel bad. Uncomfortable. I’ll worry that they were having a bad day, and instead of getting to blow off a bit of steam, I just added that final straw that takes them from unhappy to miserable, or something similar. It may not be rational, but it’s there.

With all that said, I’m thrilled they’re putting the LS into PvP areas. I hope it’s such an unmitigated disaster that they finally realize that the game modes need to be kept separate. No more forcing players into other parts of the game against their wishes.

In other words:
Go. Hunt. Kill Skuls… err noobs.

I see more PVPers whining than PVErs. PVP people whining about queues and noobs.

Mr Mango.3504:

Safe to say people like Palador are in the minority.

It’s not “safe” to say it – unless by “safe” you mean “safe from repercusions for being wrong”. I don’t know if people that think similarily to Palador are in minority or not, but their numbers are quite significant.