Guild Wars 2

There seems to be a lot of people wondering if it’s even possible to reach this goal. I’ve hear servers have done it, so it’s not impossible. I think what you’re looking at is a new model for events. The requirements for rewards have different levels, so if a Casual wants to just do a few things, they can still get some rewards. But if a Hardcore guild wants to get the best rewards, that requires lots of effort. Other events like Teq and the Wurm did give rewards based on levels of progress, but the tiers weren’t as generous as the current LA attack events. Rewards are super easy to get on the low end, but super hard to get to high end.

Look at it this way -> getting 1500+ rescues is Elite content like Wurm kills. It takes coordination and assigned people to duties throughout the map. You need to rescue the citizens and protect them as they run to exits. If people just want to zerg for achievements, it’s pretty much guaranteed you won’t reach that mark, but everyone can still get credit towards something, albeit small. This event, like it or not, has an anti-zerg mechanic. With several events happening at the same time, if a majority of players stack on Commanders in a single area, all other events fail, but it doesn’t end the event as a whole.

The big issue I find is that the rewards are too easy to get. AFKers hurt, as with any event, since they get full credit even if they don’t move an inch. But at least for this, all player types are able to participate and get something. No one can complain that they can’t do it, since it’s Open World. And no one can say they don’t get anything, since loot drops from enemies, as well as the tiered reward levels.

It also needs a bit of luck not to get thrown on an overflow, untill now that is 100% the case for me. :/

Selfless vs. Selfish. The options are there. Selfish players will zerg for personal loot and get it. Selfless players will strive to drive the rescue counter up.

That, and in order to get several of the achievements you need to personally take part in specific events. Suppose everyone needs to kill the Wurm, would anyone let go of the achievement because killing the other bosses as well awards bonus civilians?

The design hit the nail on the head keeping both play options clash freely there. Besides, it’s only day 3. The zergers will get their fill, stash thousands of blades, get both potions, and return to Queensdale/Frostgorge/CoFp1 in a few days. After they -Selfishly- got their way, the only people who will bother to go to LA are the ones who actually want to do the content, and the results will improve.

Patience, people. LA was not meant to be saved and perfectly ran to 1500 every single hour in every server and overflow, there’s still almost two full weeks to go, and once people no longer have achievements to get in the zone, they’ll stop hurting the rescue effort.

Now that I’m done with the achievements, I plan on continuing to play in the event just to help out where I can. It’s been a blast so far, and I don’t foresee me getting tired of it for a while. I’m looking forward to seeing just how many citizens can be saved in one shot. Should be fun.

All content should be like this. It allows the players to decide how they want to play. If a majority of the players want to turn this into an Elite Mode event, the rewards are waiting for them. If they just want to zerg or to get individual achievements for their Living Story Meta, that option is there too. Everyone is happy.

This is one of those events that no one should be complaining about. It caters to both Casuals and Hardcores at the same time.

Pixelmage.3692:

Selfless vs. Selfish. The options are there. Selfish players will zerg for personal loot and get it. Selfless players will strive to drive the rescue counter up.

I’ll play devil’s advocate here. Isn’t it selfish to say players must play your way (drive up the rescue counter)?

You’re essentially doing that by saying they’re selfish otherwise. What if the majority of the map wants to zerg? We had that for the invasion events last summer. Would those people be deemed selfish?

Ayrilana.1396:

Pixelmage.3692:

Selfless vs. Selfish. The options are there. Selfish players will zerg for personal loot and get it. Selfless players will strive to drive the rescue counter up.

I’ll play devil’s advocate here. Isn’t it selfish to say players must play your way (drive up the rescue counter)?

You’re essentially doing that by saying they’re selfish otherwise. What if the majority of the map wants to zerg? We had that for the invasion events last summer. Would those people be deemed selfish?

Technically, if you were to do something that only benefits you, that’s selfish or thoughtless. It’s even described in game: “Thoughtless Potion – For those who only thought of themselves in this time of need.”

Ayrilana.1396:

Pixelmage.3692:

Selfless vs. Selfish. The options are there. Selfish players will zerg for personal loot and get it. Selfless players will strive to drive the rescue counter up.

I’ll play devil’s advocate here. Isn’t it selfish to say players must play your way (drive up the rescue counter)?

You’re essentially doing that by saying they’re selfish otherwise. What if the majority of the map wants to zerg? We had that for the invasion events last summer. Would those people be deemed selfish?

You are correct, actually. And there lies the beauty of this particular balance. Were I trying to order everyone to play in a certain manner (Save Civies) in order to gain the most profit, I would be selfish. But there’s no real way to do that, now, is there?

Even if no one puts up a commander tag and scream “STACK. FIRE FIELDS BLAST FINISHERS.” on map chat, one player can’t, on his own, “farm” for the 1500. People would still band together for the Dynamic Events and might just end up staying together and effectively zerging anyway even unintentionally.

Motivation aside, in refraining from joining the zergs in favor of striving to rescue civilians is a risk, I’m giving up on guaranteed champion loot bags in the hopes that those individuals I get make a difference in the tally at the end, but there’s no guarantee. I might get nothing and leave with just the Group Effort I and II that the zergs got from rushing down the events.

So yes, I’m selfish in the sense that I want the best possible loot from 1500 rescues, but in trying my best to help achieve that goal, I sacrifice the personal reward that would otherwise be easy to get in the form of just farming the events.

We really get into morality talk down this road, so I’d vote for simplicity, zerg = selfish solo loot, rescue = selfless team loot. Just to avoid long essay-like posts that nobody will read and probably complain about.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Ayrilana.1396:

Pixelmage.3692:

Selfless vs. Selfish. The options are there. Selfish players will zerg for personal loot and get it. Selfless players will strive to drive the rescue counter up.

I’ll play devil’s advocate here. Isn’t it selfish to say players must play your way (drive up the rescue counter)?

You’re essentially doing that by saying they’re selfish otherwise. What if the majority of the map wants to zerg? We had that for the invasion events last summer. Would those people be deemed selfish?

Technically, if you were to do something that only benefits you, that’s selfish or thoughtless. It’s even described in game: “Thoughtless Potion – For those who only thought of themselves in this time of need.”

Well then everyone would be selfish rendering the entire argument moot.

Pixelmage.3692:

Selfless vs. Selfish. The options are there. Selfish players will zerg for personal loot and get it. Selfless players will strive to drive the rescue counter up.

Wanting to max the rescue counter out in order to get a chest with the best loot drops (potential jetpack, etc) is clearly no less selfish than zerging if we are talking about personal rewards. In fact, expecting people to change their playstyle in order to rescue citizens so you can get a reward would be at least as selfish as zergging since 90% of those people are doing such because simply because they don’t understand the mechanics.

The big thing is that since everything else is zerg-based, most players are going to show up and assume that following commanders and zergging everything is what you’re supposed to do beacause that’s how it usually works in this game. Doing so is not a matter of selfishness for any casual person showing up to the event who doesn’t fully understand the poorly communicated strategy for max-rescue.

Ayrilana.1396:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Ayrilana.1396:

Pixelmage.3692:

Selfless vs. Selfish. The options are there. Selfish players will zerg for personal loot and get it. Selfless players will strive to drive the rescue counter up.

I’ll play devil’s advocate here. Isn’t it selfish to say players must play your way (drive up the rescue counter)?

You’re essentially doing that by saying they’re selfish otherwise. What if the majority of the map wants to zerg? We had that for the invasion events last summer. Would those people be deemed selfish?

Technically, if you were to do something that only benefits you, that’s selfish or thoughtless. It’s even described in game: “Thoughtless Potion – For those who only thought of themselves in this time of need.”

Well then everyone would be selfish rendering the entire argument moot.

The thing you’re missing here is that this content allows you to make that choice, and not be penalized for it. The event was very well planned out, reward wise. The same map allows for both Casual play, and Elite level Hardcore play.

Pixelmage.3692:

Motivation aside, in refraining from joining the zergs in favor of striving to rescue civilians is a risk, I’m giving up on guaranteed champion loot bags in the hopes that those individuals I get make a difference in the tally at the end, but there’s no guarantee. I might get nothing and leave with just the Group Effort I and II that the zergs got from rushing down the events.

So yes, I’m selfish in the sense that I want the best possible loot from 1500 rescues, but in trying my best to help achieve that goal, I sacrifice the personal reward that would otherwise be easy to get in the form of just farming the events.

We really get into morality talk down this road, so I’d vote for simplicity, zerg = selfish solo loot, rescue = selfless team loot. Just to avoid long essay-like posts that nobody will read and probably complain about.

I disagree with what you stated. Selfless would be giving up something to benefit others and not expecting to get something in return.

Your motivation (which I did see you stated you set aside for your argument) is for the end loot otherwise would you really be willing to give up champ loot? What you want is just being replaced/swapped with the other (champ loot vs end reward). Just because you’re willing to sacrifice one thing that means less to you for something that means more to you does not mean it’s any less selfless/selfish.

• I want the end loot. I’m willing to give up champ loot to help the map go for it.
• I want the champ bags. I’m willing to give up on the map loot to help the map go for champ bags.

It essentially comes down to what the players on the map as a collective decide to do. If the majority want to farm, then deviating from that is selfish. If the majority of the map wants to go for the high civilian rescues count for the reward then deviating from that would be selfish. There’s also the fact that everyone is free to play the game how they want and having them not be able to do that is selfish as well.

So pretty much you cannot eliminate selfishness as everyone has a motive on why they do something. People farm because they wants lots of bags and people go for the 1500 civilian count because they want the end loot. You have varying degrees in-between but selflessness is never truly eliminated.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Ayrilana.1396:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Ayrilana.1396:

Pixelmage.3692:

Selfless vs. Selfish. The options are there. Selfish players will zerg for personal loot and get it. Selfless players will strive to drive the rescue counter up.

I’ll play devil’s advocate here. Isn’t it selfish to say players must play your way (drive up the rescue counter)?

You’re essentially doing that by saying they’re selfish otherwise. What if the majority of the map wants to zerg? We had that for the invasion events last summer. Would those people be deemed selfish?

Technically, if you were to do something that only benefits you, that’s selfish or thoughtless. It’s even described in game: “Thoughtless Potion – For those who only thought of themselves in this time of need.”

Well then everyone would be selfish rendering the entire argument moot.

The thing you’re missing here is that this content allows you to make that choice, and not be penalized for it. The event was very well planned out, reward wise. The same map allows for both Casual play, and Elite level Hardcore play.

I’m not missing that as I know people have a choice. They always have. Could you elaborate on what you were trying to argue with this post as I’m missing your point?

Smooth Penguin.5294:

The thing you’re missing here is that this content allows you to make that choice, and not be penalized for it. The event was very well planned out, reward wise. The same map allows for both Casual play, and Elite level Hardcore play.

It’s better than some events but falls short of “very well planned out”. The problem is that most people won’t even recognize that the “elite level hardcore” play mode exists, much less organize enough to make it happen for those who do. When a map does Teq or tri-wurm, if they fail everyone knows that they did something wrong because their failure is clearly communicated. In LA, when everyone zergs and gets only 500 rescues, people are happy with their rewards without ever knowing that they got a kitten number.

The problem is that you can’t really have Casual and Elite playstyles in this event in the same map at the same time.

Ayrilana.1396:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Ayrilana.1396:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Ayrilana.1396:

Pixelmage.3692:

Selfless vs. Selfish. The options are there. Selfish players will zerg for personal loot and get it. Selfless players will strive to drive the rescue counter up.

I’ll play devil’s advocate here. Isn’t it selfish to say players must play your way (drive up the rescue counter)?

You’re essentially doing that by saying they’re selfish otherwise. What if the majority of the map wants to zerg? We had that for the invasion events last summer. Would those people be deemed selfish?

Technically, if you were to do something that only benefits you, that’s selfish or thoughtless. It’s even described in game: “Thoughtless Potion – For those who only thought of themselves in this time of need.”

Well then everyone would be selfish rendering the entire argument moot.

The thing you’re missing here is that this content allows you to make that choice, and not be penalized for it. The event was very well planned out, reward wise. The same map allows for both Casual play, and Elite level Hardcore play.

I’m not missing that as I know people have a choice. They always have. Could you elaborate or what you were trying to argue with this post as I’m missing what your point is?

I wasn’t arguing so much as to what’s selfish or not. I was pointing out that if you only do something that benefits you, that would be the definition of “selfish”. Going further, the event allows a player to make that decision and benefit from it, be it AP or loot bags. If other players get mad because they’re trying to be selfless to help the map get the max rewards, that’s fine. Heck, I get mad when I see uplevels trying to do the content, only to be dead on the ground. But bottom line, everyone is playing the event as it was meant to be played.

Ayrilana.1396:

People farm because they wants lots of bags and people go for the 1500 civilian count because they want the end loot. You have varying degrees in-between but selflessness is never truly eliminated.

Absolutely glorious statement. Humans always want things for themselves, and in this sense, we will always be selfish. I mean, remove all loot and rewards altogether, who would actually do the event? Neither bags nor end-chest are in play, no achievement points either. Just the event for the sake of doing the event. It’d be interesting to see how players would perform in such scenario, but we don’t have the room to do that experiment. :P

Though as far as the context of the game goes, they defined the potions as “thought of himself alone”, or “thought of others”. Champ loot bags are individual, thus, selfish by that definition. The end reward goes to everyone who chipped in to reach it, thus, Selfless by the proposal within the game.

Though like you said, if we look at the player motive and the choices made, one can never truly be selfless. It’s a matter of what each particular composition of players in the server want to do, as you said, and tying back to what I said at first, the beauty of the design in this particular update is that it lets these choices clash and present themselves naturally and seamlessly.

Pixelmage.3692:

It’d be interesting to see how players would perform in such scenario, but we don’t have the room to do that experiment. :P

Look at most of the events that give crap rewards in the game. People don’t do them.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Ayrilana.1396:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Ayrilana.1396:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Ayrilana.1396:

Pixelmage.3692:

Selfless vs. Selfish. The options are there. Selfish players will zerg for personal loot and get it. Selfless players will strive to drive the rescue counter up.

I’ll play devil’s advocate here. Isn’t it selfish to say players must play your way (drive up the rescue counter)?

You’re essentially doing that by saying they’re selfish otherwise. What if the majority of the map wants to zerg? We had that for the invasion events last summer. Would those people be deemed selfish?

Technically, if you were to do something that only benefits you, that’s selfish or thoughtless. It’s even described in game: “Thoughtless Potion – For those who only thought of themselves in this time of need.”

Well then everyone would be selfish rendering the entire argument moot.

The thing you’re missing here is that this content allows you to make that choice, and not be penalized for it. The event was very well planned out, reward wise. The same map allows for both Casual play, and Elite level Hardcore play.

I’m not missing that as I know people have a choice. They always have. Could you elaborate or what you were trying to argue with this post as I’m missing what your point is?

I wasn’t arguing so much as to what’s selfish or not. I was pointing out that if you only do something that benefits you, that would be the definition of “selfish”. Going further, the event allows a player to make that decision and benefit from it, be it AP or loot bags. If other players get mad because they’re trying to be selfless to help the map get the max rewards, that’s fine. Heck, I get mad when I see uplevels trying to do the content, only to be dead on the ground. But bottom line, everyone is playing the event as it was meant to be played.

Oh. I took it as you arguing rather than elaborating upon. Thank you for clarifying.