Guild Wars 2

well the first week it was broken anyways

I sympathize with you.

Although I have this achieve, I lucked out in that (a) I’m in TTS and (b) I just happened to be on at the right time to do the achieve (I can’t be on every night during primetime hours).

The achievement I don’t mind, but having it be time-limited – yeah, that’s a bit extreme especially when it was bugged for a whole week…

Actually, the stomp scarlet before her shield pops was worse. Thankfully I got it on the second try, but if I had to sit through one more unskippable cut scene, I was going to rage quit.

Seriously, what is anet’s obsession with making cut scene’s unskippable?

OT: I was lucky enough to be in a good OF that was organizing it and we barely made it. It’s tough having some achieves be so dependent on other people, but I guess that is how it goes in MMO’s.

cranked.3812:

but I guess that is how it goes in MMO’s.

Except it doesn’t. This achievement requires 149 people you don’t know to basically not be stupid/afk/trolly. World events are bad, especially with server imbalances this game has atm.

Even a super hard raid achievement in WoW only requires 25 people that are close guildmates.

How do we kill the knights faster? I’m not completely familiar with their mechanics. I just know their condition reflect buff goes off from time to time, but how does it go off? Is it based on the players’ action, or does it go off automatically after a set amount of time?

Steel Fenrir.2791:

How do we kill the knights faster? I’m not completely familiar with their mechanics. I just know their condition reflect buff goes off from time to time, but how does it go off? Is it based on the players’ action, or does it go off automatically after a set amount of time?

They reflect conditions when their health is between 25% and 50% and between 75% and 100%.

Between 0% and 25% and between 50% and 75% of their health, conditions on them cause them to take more damage.

Charak.9761:

Except it doesn’t. This achievement requires 149 people you don’t know to basically not be stupid/afk/trolly. World events are bad, especially with server imbalances this game has atm..

No it doesn’t.

The time I managed to do it we had several free spots on all three knights.

sablephoenix.1593:

I repeat, a timed achievement should never rely on the coordination of a full map’s worth of players for completion.

Ok, first of all, the timed part doesn’t matter. What you’re trying to say is that there is a special, difficulty-increasing achievement which a large group of people has to win together.
For sake of argument, if the Hologram achievement was that no one in the entire group was hit by any laser ever, that’d be equivalent. The whole group has to succeed for individual players to get it.

But, I’d say, no, these things should exist.

Why?

Because there’s lots of achievements. It’s ok to make them quite diverse.

There are:

• Trivial achievements. The ones you get automatically, like reaching level X.
• Modifying achievements. They ask you to do something you already do in slightly different. These can be further divided into the ones which make the activity more difficult (6 minutes is one of these, but read below), and the ones who don’t.
• Branching achievements. These ask you to do something you normally wouldn’t do. Exploration achievements asking you to scale up walls via mesh bugs, playing solo in a team-PvP-game, playing fully non-lethal in a stealth game, etc. These can usually be divided into the ones which are obvious, the ones which are hidden (often the achievement is fully hidden, not just cryptic) and the ones which are context-sensitive.

In all of these cases, you can further differentiate personal achievements and group-based achievements. For example, killing Magda in 30 seconds or less in Diablo 3 can be either, while the 6m achievement is a group achievement, and Master of Entropy is a fully personal one.

My point is: Why not have some of each category?

We have lots and lots of fully personal achievements. What’s so bad about having some which aren’t personal? Some which aren’t trivial? Some which are trivial? Some which are automatic? Some which task you to do a dungeon?

Why not have this diversity?

You’re essentially arguing that it’s bad to have the choice to go for this achievement. Why is such a choice bad? It’s not like the game deletes your character if you don’t get it, so if you’re not interested in organizing it (which is the way to guarantee that you get it :P ), then just don’t go for it and you’re done.

For another example, I personally dislike the type of modifying grind achievements. “Get 500 kills with a shotgun” (these can be automatic if the game requires you to kill more than 500 times with the shotty, anyhow). I hate them. But, that’s a very easy thing to fix, I won’t do them.
Likewise, you don’t like achievements like the 6m one (or I suspect the 30s Magda kill one in multiplayer in D3 :P ). Then well, don’t do them. No one is forcing you to, and no one is forcing me to do the 500 Shotgun kills one in a shooter.

Carighan.6758:

For another example, I personally dislike the type of modifying grind achievements. “Get 500 kills with a shotgun” (these can be automatic if the game requires you to kill more than 500 times with the shotty, anyhow). I hate them. But, that’s a very easy thing to fix, I won’t do them.

Likewise, you don’t like achievements like the 6m one (or I suspect the 30s Magda kill one in multiplayer in D3 :P ). Then well, don’t do them. No one is forcing you to, and no one is forcing me to do the 500 Shotgun kills one in a shooter.

Realistically the difference between achievements like this and 500 shotgun kills is that this achievement relies on a large number of coordinated people who, let’s face it, aren’t that coordinated. Shotgun kills only rely on you and your ability to shoot 500 enemies with a shotgun.

I’m not sure why everyone’s getting their panties in a twist over it though. I agree with you 100% that the best solution is to just not do it. If people are trying for the meta-achievement, there are dailies that help accumulate that. Sure, people can’t be on every day but most people can get on for the five minutes it takes to get a single daily that will add to the meta-achievement. It’s not like map travel fees are a huge hindrance on one’s ability to complete.

I think, when it really comes down to it, completionists are just kitten that they can’t complete something. Sure, it has adequate foundations in an argument, but QQ threads like this one aren’t appealing. There are plenty of other threads discussing the 6 Minutes to Knightfall mechanics that don’t have titles like “Never do anything like 6 Minutes…” where constructive criticism of the actual problems with this event could’ve been stated without seeming QQ.

I agree, this was a stupid achievement. Simply put, achievements like this shouldn’t exist. I’m all for a challenge, but not when the hardest part is just getting onto the main server. The fact that it was bugged for such a long time also didn’t help matters, but it’s still a very poorly designed achievement that is simply unobtainable for most people regardless of how many hours they spend in an overflow or how good they are.

hannah mee.7925:

Realistically the difference between achievements like this and 500 shotgun kills is that this achievement relies on a large number of coordinated people who, let’s face it, aren’t that coordinated. Shotgun kills only rely on you and your ability to shoot 500 enemies with a shotgun.

It’s limited time only, and was bugged for most of the update.

It requires about 150 people who are outside of your control to do something.

Literally 99% of people won’t be able to get onto a map that has enough people to actually complete the achievement due to the overflow system.

It’s just generally a very poorly designed achievement that honestly shouldn’t be in the game. It personally ticks me off a bit that I’ll miss it due to how its nearly impossible it is to get onto my main server (Desolation) if you log at any remotely normal time, but I’m not enough of an achievement addict to get mad about it.

However, just because you personally aren’t into achievements or you were lucky enough to get it doesn’t mean your “just don’t do it” argument has any merit whatsoever. A lot of people place more value on achievements than you do, and it bothers them that they’re unable to complete this one not due to a lack of commitment or skill, but due to factors that are entirely outside of their control.

You wouldn’t say “don’t watch the match” to a football fan. You wouldn’t say “don’t listen to the new album” to a music fan. You wouldn’t say “don’t read that book” to an avid reader. So don’t tell achievement fanatics to simply not do an achievement just because you personally don’t care about them.

My opinion: I think that if you needed to have this one achievement to get the meta-achievement then I would agree that having it in the game is unfair. But, you don’t need it, it’s just there. So saying to eliminate it is kind of silly. It’s something to shoot for, something that requires specific things like coordination, skill and probably luck and it represents a difficulty level that defines the top end. I’d rather have a mix of achievements available, covering a broad range from easy to very hard, than to cut out the two extremes and just have stuff I can do in one day and be done with the whole event. I don’t think everyone shares the same expectations of what achievements are.

ozma.3498:

It’s limited time only, and was bugged for most of the update.

It requires about 150 people who are outside of your control to do something.

Literally 99% of people won’t be able to get onto a map that has enough people to actually complete the achievement due to the overflow system.

It’s just generally a very poorly designed achievement that honestly shouldn’t be in the game.

Have you considered that the achievement is aimed at people who want to lead?
Because those players can guarantee they’ll get it. Or well, test themselves whether they can get it. Happens to be that 99-149 other people get it in the process, too!

Really, achievements are ideally very diverse. They are. This is an achievement which is not for everyone, which is 100% perfectly a-ok! There are achievements in all kinds of flavours and for all kinds of things, the idea being that some will appeal to any specific person.

This one doesn’t appeal to you. Awesome. Don’t do it. Done.

ANet obviously has a kitten for raid encounters but forcing you to do them with a bunch of random slackers isn’t fun.

It’s taking all the worst aspects of raiding (the frustration about slackers, the waiting) and removing all the good stuff (sense of progression, community etc.).

It’s like LFR quality raiding except with 150 people.

It’s just so incredibly frustrating.

And there is literally nothing I ca do about it. My home server barely fills LA during peak hours and guesting to other servers just dumps you in Overflows.

Seriously, just give us raid-instances already (or password-locked overflows) and be done with it. All this open world BS is just bad with no upside whatsoever.

it’s fine by me to get achievements like these, but they have to be permanent. In these two weeks you really have to be lucky to find an organising group and then if you found one, you have to be lucky you get on same overflow as them. I was lucky to get it done within 6mins mins once, but at that moment the achievement was bugged……

Plus people like me care about these achievements, we just want to complete every achievement. So far I have done every living story achievement except for 1 gauntlet achievement (killing liadri after throwing 7 crystals) but i dont want to get this achieve failing by some silly afk’ers and by people that dont know what to do.

@DeeJay:
The difference to LFR in WoW is, GW2’s raid encounters are incredibly easy to beat. The knights can be killed by condi specced players equipping a power weapon and using AA.

At that point, the other players seriously run into troubles trying to hinder you. Yes, your server can be underpopulated for it as a result of everyone “giving up” on it. This is where player-based organization comes in (a good thing in MMOs when they support this). Done early enough the loss of players never happens because people know that reliably at X in the evening, there’ll be a kill.

I would argue that the correct solution is the opposite of instances or private overflows.
Make the tech to not have overflows, have giant, single, zones. Have 35000 players in huge groups fight a giant worm wit hundreds of sub-bosses sprouting up all over the zone. Running triage camps ,carrying fallen players back to them, building, manning siege, running supply, everything.

If you think the open world stuff has no upside, might I ask: Why do you play GW2?
It’s a serious question, considering that this was the thing hyped about it, and the thing making it unique compared to other MMOs. It’s open PvE world (well and by extension the WvW).

Fowidner.6930:

Plus people like me care about these achievements, we just want to complete every achievement.

How is it fair to expect the game to fully support this? Especially because in this case it’d clash with someone else’s perspective that the achievements should be rather limited so there’s bragging rights to having them (especially if they went out of their way to organize the event).

I’m usually a completionist, but there have been some achievements I just say “Kitten off” to as I’m not going to waste my time being frustrated and angry whilst trying to get them. It’s just not worth it. So the 6 minutes and Scarlet stomp one I’ve not bothered with.

I do agree that achievements that rely on RNG whether you’re in a map with 150 people who can actually get things done are getting seriously tiresome.. Marionette, now this.

I think they had it right with the Marionette, but this one was just not fun at all!

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with having a set of achievement that are difficult to achievement unless you manage to organize the district your in. It’s basically a bonus achievement that forces you to do the same content that’s better in a group. It gives groups who are more skilled then PuGs something to do with the same content while still keeping the core content accessible to newbies.

The only problem I see is that the content is for a limited time only which frustrates people who must have absolutely every achievement point ever to which I reply “why?”. It’s not like those 10 AP comes with any title.

That being said, “six minutes to knightfall” is kind of a weak achievement. It’s just a DPS test of the zerg your with and is extremely obtuse with how you’d be able to work towards it and it’s temporary which is probably driving the 100% completion people even more insane. The marionette dodge achievements weren’t perfect in that you still had to rely on other platforms succeeding but they at least gave you something to work on and encouraged you to switch platforms rather then camping your favorite and getting bored earlier.

Compare this with a similar achievement on Tequatl which is flawless defence which pushes the defenders to preform better and encourages commanders to organize the defense parties perfectly. There’s a much more clear line between success and failure so it adds an additional challenge without frustrating people who are trying to be better easier.

Either way I liked this set of achievement in the last set of living story updates much better then the old ones. I prefer having achievement points that rely on skill like the spider achievement and the marionette dodge achievement rather then the stupid Collect 1000 toxic spores lazy ones that Anet added in the past.

Very much agreed with OP.
I have expressed my concerns with previous post so I will not dive too much into detail.
If you want to put an achievement that relies on a mass group of players, make it so that it requires the participation of only 50-60% of the map’s cap to achieve it. Also this type of achievement should be permanent and not just available for a 2 week release.

ozma.3498:

It’s limited time only, and was bugged for most of the update.

Literally 99% of people won’t be able to get onto a map that has enough people to actually complete the achievement due to the overflow system.

However, just because you personally aren’t into achievements or you were lucky enough to get it doesn’t mean your “just don’t do it” argument has any merit whatsoever.

You wouldn’t say “don’t watch the match” to a football fan. You wouldn’t say “don’t listen to the new album” to a music fan. You wouldn’t say “don’t read that book” to an avid reader.

Being bugged is an entirely different problem though, one which reflects nothing on the achievement itself. I know there is an achievement in Sly 4: Thieves of Time that is apparently buggy on the PSP version of the game, so the best solution is to only play the PS3 version if you want to get it. So, what do people do if they want the achievement? They don’t play the PSP version. Simple, really.

I advise you to look up the meaning of literally. I’ve never had a problem with numbers on my main server (Dragonbrand) or any overflows. However there is a huge issue with a lack of coordination. Which, again, can be better addressed without making QQ threads on every single page of the forum.

It’s actually worth a lot of merit. There are plenty of achievements out there, the meta-achievement is still possible to obtain and if people aren’t putting forward enough effort to try and coordinate the event, that’s their problem. Look on the forums, there have been servers working to coordinate the event and get the achievement. I’m sure you could even find other third party sources that maximize their coordination efforts to achieve the goal. The lack of trying to coordinate efforts, however, does not merit QQ threads.

You could say those things to fans. The value of something like this is situational, not intrinsic. You could save an avid book reader by saving them time with “Holden Caulfield was a spoiled kitten and the book was bad” or you could tell them to not recap Super Bowl 48 because John Fox almost died in January it was still his worst moment of 2014. The value of the achievement isn’t intrinsic by any means.

People telling the OP that “it’s just an achievement, hurr-durr” should keep in mind that some gamers are going after achievements as a form of end game. Missing out on one due to no fault of their own IS a big deal. Not to mention that this particular achi was bugged for a whole week while the event lasts for two weeks.

I don’t go around commenting about mini pets and armour skins being useless even though both of them are. For me, that is. For others it’s an integral part of the game and missing out on a special helmet or rare pet because of other people’s shortcomings would be a big deal.

This is not about sitting down and organizing an instanced 40 man raid but organizing a 150 man open world event which can be screwed up by random people passing by, going AFK in the vicinity, dragging mobs on top of the fighters or joining in without the required buff and consumables. Oh and you have one week to make it happen.

Stop with the “it’s only 10 points” posts. Don’t be that guy.

I don’t mind difficult map-wide coordinated achievements in the context that it is permanent content like maybe the Great Jungle Wurm or Tequatl. Having an achievement like Six Minutes to Knightfall in temporary content is bad form, though, and shouldn’t be done again.

Slowpoke.2749:

I don’t go around commenting about mini pets and armour skins being useless even though both of them are. For me, that is. For others it’s an integral part of the game and missing out on a special helmet or rare pet because of other people’s shortcomings would be a big deal.

Except most people aren’t QQing about how difficult a cosmetic is to obtain. Some of them are QQing that ticket scraps are RNG but I think that is actually more of a subpoint to the fact that there’s really not been any addition to obtainable content that hasn’t been gem-store related purchases. Point aside, the smack talkers are pretty much justified here.

The achievement is by no means impossible, although failure can be a result that a player couldn’t control, but it requires coordination. If people don’t want to step up to the plate and join in on organized runs (or, better yet, start an organized run) for the 6 minute achievement then they have to accept they won’t get it. By organized, this of course means advertise once in a while (the forums have a few threads about coordinating their fight against the Knights) or setting up a communication channel for voice communication.

It requires loads of responsibility, planning and foresight to get this achievement. Is it difficult? Yes. Is it bad? Sure. Is it impossible? Absolutely not.

If there’s absolutely no personal effort being made to organize a server or overflow to do these events or no sacrifices are made to accomplish the achievement, then that’s all the achievement really is to a person – a meaningless achievement. Life circumstances or other such obstacles might get in the way of easy completion but I wouldn’t want anyone to care about those circumstances because these are obstacles that nobody, since the development of gaming, has ever given two kittens about.

The fact that the OP hasn’t suggested he made an attempt to get into an organized run or organize one himself just reinforces everyone talking down about achievement kitten.

Dont get mad man. Go buy ESO and enjoy a good game that support DX11 you know since it’s 2014 and all.

Hrithmus.2583:

Dont get mad man. Go buy ESO and enjoy a good game that support DX11 you know since it’s 2014 and all.

Eh… One more naive person.

I finally got this on Blackgate main (I was guesting and so were several of my guildmates). We helped organize and it took a couple tries but we got the whole map engaged and got it with a few seconds to spare.

I love this achievement because it was hard, took a whole lot of map effort and everyone was super psyched when we got it.

However, I will say it was just a tad too hard to get because it relied on nearly everyone getting the Vigil buff, using food and a Scarlet potion in order to get enough DPS to succeed. I love achievements that make you feel excited when you get it like this one did, but I’m not sure where to put that line to keep it hard yet doable.

But OMG the rush when we got that achievement.

I have a different take on this. I loved this achievement as it is… if there weren’t so… many… bugs. It sucked that there was that bug where only 2 people on each successful run could get the achievement. Then there’s the scaling bug, which is still active. When we organize and do a Knight run, and one groups screams they downed the green one within 30 seconds, it makes me sad. We still get the other two Knights down before the 6 minute mark, but we have to work hard, while one group melted their target without effort.

hannah mee.7925:

The fact that the OP hasn’t suggested he made an attempt to get into an organized run or organize one himself just reinforces everyone talking down about achievement kitten.

Ever since the achievement fix went live I contacted guilds doing it, guested to different servers, even tried to organize some runs myself. I have put in the maximum amount of time and effort I realistically could and have nothing to show for it. The closest I came was 7 minutes and 46 seconds during an organized attempt that happened on Tarnished Coast main at late night.

Tomorrow the event ends and this is the last achievement I’m missing. I don’t know if there will be other missing achievements since I’m not sure that I want to support a game that is rife with bugs and poorly optimized content more than a year after launch. Almost two years, in fact. I’m just glad that it was given to me as a gift instead of wasting money on it myself.

Defeating Algalon or Professor Putricide wasn’t as frustrating as getting this achi and I remember wiping for a month on the good old professor.

I’m not averse to rewards being earned through challenges and skill tests but I’m most certainly averse to rewards being earned through sheer luck (being at the right place at the right time) because you can not reliably make 150 other people meet the requirements (being able to be there at the given time and knowing what to do, NOT being near the event in the case of heirloom hunters / AFKers / trolls to avoid scaling) and meet them within a one week timeframe.

The fight itself is not challenging. If these knights were WoW raid bosses, they would be a source of laughably easy gear and valor. Not even the achievement requires skill. Just a massive amount of obedient players. Preferably in zerker gear.

They will most likely keep making ridiculous achievements like this complimented with bugs and unpolished, weakly tested content that the achievements will be based on.

I can think of a few LS chapters that had some achievement of this type, the one that stands out for me the most was the Cutthroat Politics ones where you had kill a certain number of loot bag aetherbutts before a timer runs out and before they get too many stolen loot teleported to their ship while dancing around veteran mobs that had HP and almost the same damage as a champion mob.

After the uproar on the forum, instead of nerfing them slightly so more players could get a chance at obtaining the achievements, they decided it was bugged and added more mobs to spawn.

It was only out for 2 weeks as well, and I don’t ever recall even the best prepared teams being able to get “gold” completion for the events in that instance, because besides having to prevent the looters from making it to their despawn points, you also had to kill a lot of these badly scaled mobs that were basically champions disguised as veterans to complete the event with gold. The most I could remember were organized groups saying they got silver a bunch of times, at least the ones who posted on the forums.

As has already been mentioned in this thread, I’d rather achievements of this difficulty be permanent and not be given only 1 week to complete it due to bugs that keep piling up because of their silly 2 week release schedule. It’s better to let people work their way up to this type of stuff at their own pace, and it gives ArenaNet more breathing room to come back and clean out some bugs and anti-griefing measures (like kicking inactive players from the turrets for Tequatl).

After attempting to battle her hologram and failing the first time I just plain gave up because it was just so difficult for 5 of us to do anything. Frustrating trying to complete these living story things; I have yet to complete any of them since the second one that was released. Not enough time and coordination, I am an old lady who just enjoys games with no hopes of completing any of it.

I honestly stopped tying for the achievement or the event in general after it being broken for the first week. You want to do 2 week content, then makes sure it works. Most of the patches have been fairly good with this. AN is quick to fix issues when comparing to other MMO’s I’ve played, it doesn’t carry water here. You only have 2 weeks, and when it’s broken for nearly 1/2 that time…why bother.

Slowpoke.2749:

People telling the OP that “it’s just an achievement, hurr-durr” should keep in mind that some gamers are going after achievements as a form of end game. Missing out on one due to no fault of their own IS a big deal. Not to mention that this particular achi was bugged for a whole week while the event lasts for two weeks.

As I said above, achievements are very varied. How can one single person even expect to get all of them, looking at them?

What I mean is, it should be pretty obvious that the achievements aren’t meant to all be farmed. Or at least never consciously designed that way. The emerging gameplay element of “Grind ALL the achievements” isn’t supported by the devs, pretty much.

And that’s obvious. Even something as little as the PvP dailies make it easy to see.

Trishlicious.2657:

After attempting to battle her hologram and failing the first time I just plain gave up because it was just so difficult for 5 of us to do anything. Frustrating trying to complete these living story things; I have yet to complete any of them since the second one that was released. Not enough time and coordination, I am an old lady who just enjoys games with no hopes of completing any of it.

If you craft the bladepack (any quality), you can go to the bottom-left yellow swirly on the LA map (where Turma is) and use the teleporter there to skip the Hologram fight.

ArenaNet is slowly moving into dangerous waters with this kind of content. They are starting to exclude ALOT of there player base from completing content due to varying factors (Small guild, Under-populated server, Constantly being in overflows etc….. ). I cant workout ANets thinking sometimes.

They did the same thing with the 3 wurms fight. Made it insanely difficult for people to do that I would say 75% of the community gave up trying it after the first week. Only a few select servers managed to do it, just like the Teq fight.

The Marionette fight was a great fight. It required alot of co-ordination, however wasnt insanely difficult. Yes it was frustrating, yes it was bugged on the platforms (teleporting one person to a platform to kill a Champion by them self). But it was not in the same league as Teq, 3 Wurms and Knights encounters.

I gave up trying for the 6 minute achievement. Its difficult at peak times to even get into your own servers instance. Last night we tried on Aurora Glade to organise a 6 minute attempt. We gathered outside LA 50 minutes before the fight was about to start. The 6 commanders (myself included) ended up in various different overflows. The overflow I was in had a stupidly small amount of people in it.

Red = 34 free spots
Blue = 33 free spots
Red = 28 free spots

How are we supposed to take down the knights with so few players. We all know and ANet have confirmed that the kinghts do not scale cortrectly, so we only managed to get the knights to around the 50% mark.

If ANet insists on placing this kind of achievement in the game, then take it out of getting the Meta, kind of like what they did for SAB Tribulation mode. Allow those of a server take precedence to get into there own servers instance over those guesting to the server. Do something to kick AFK/Leechers from the instance.

Having 6min kill made the fight fun for servers that have 150pepole,all aiming for that AP or bonus chest placing DPS food using max dps build is fun for lot of people

Killface.1896:

Having 6min kill made the fight fun for servers that have 150pepole,all aiming for that AP or bonus chest placing DPS food using max dps build is fun for lot of people

I am sure it is fun, however it becomes rather tedious when you try multiple times to organise something only to be hindered by Overflows/AFKers/Leechers/Insane lag/Buggy fights. Also add to that the lack of interest in attempting it due the above all adds up to a general feeling of frustration.

Dont get me wrong, I do enjoy a challenge. However, when that challenge is full of obvious pitfalls like above I tend to walk away from it.

Agreed with the OP. The first week, we had to suffer bugs. The next week, we had to suffer fools. While I like a challenge too, one that depends on others to have their kitten together isn’t my cup of tea.

Especially given that some of our peers refuse to apply common sense.

Again, the zerg can only get you so far.

I managet the 6 mins as soon as it was fixed… One thing that I havnt managed though is the SPIDER… Do I have to say more…

Tbh I really can’t take any of the QQ regarding these things seriously. This particular cheese and whine has been served up by some facet of the community since the reveal of the achievement system.

People thought it was unfair they had to do jumping puzzles for AP; people thought it was unfair they had to PvP for AP; or play dungeons; or only had a measly two weeks to find the time to get on and accomplish something; or do anything that may require some effort or problem solving beyond maniacally giggling while pounding on the keyboard like an over-stimulated monkey.

Now its the exact same thing for six minutes to Knightfall. It was an achievement. There was no special loot. There was no title. You didn’t even have to do it to get the meta because you could substitute if with a daily. It was an extra challenge specifically put there for people that wanted to tackle it.

There were options. Everyone knows the high pop servers that they can guest to and try to help. Or get into a full overflow. Many of you know about the large, public event guilds that do these things multiple times a day for the entire duration of an event. There were reddit posts for servers and alliances hosting six minute runs. And last but not least, how do you think all of those things that led to successful runs started out? They started with a player that couldn’t do the event on their server or by themselves and decided to do something about it.

There is a legitimate complaint with the achievement. And that is that it was broken for a week and some people that did earn it, didn’t get their little badge that only they can see and sense of personal accomplishment.

Other than that, if you were unable to get the achievement, it is honestly your own fault. Instead of pursuing one of the many avenues available to get it done quickly and easily, you decided the path of least resistance would be to just give up and complain about it. Anet did not make this content for players like that. But they do have them in mind — there was a special portal that could be used to jump right to Scarlet and see the finale of the entire LS season. And yet, people still found a way to say that was too difficult. You had to dodge twice and press F!

Leechers, trolls and bugs are a different story. But to blame not getting it done on server, or difficulty, or that you had no opportunity is just a cop out for not wanting to make even the slightest effort besides showing up in the instance and hoping.

It’s true that the achievement was bugged the first week. For me it popped as done while there were still 2 knights alive. I have the achievement, but did not earn it. I atually hate that more than working for it and not getting it.

The actual combat content of that last patch was terrible all-around.

I’ll admit that I did have some fun in LA, but it was mostly from fighting tons of adds during the Miasma events. However, the achievement check list really made the rest of the event pretty miserable.

I really hope ArenaNet considers making more content instanced for stuff like this in the future, especially if they want to put in any group coordination-based achievement.

Failing an achievement because you’re surrounded by people who aren’t as committed to the same goal as you just isn’t fun.

At least in dungeons/raids, you can get a group of like-minded people to accomplish something truly heroic. (hint hint, add a raid-like encounter)

AcidicVision.5498:

snip

If you read this thread in its entirety, you will find most of your points already debunked. “Get organized and do something about it” isn’t really a valid response for this particular achievement. It’s not like an entire guild of 150 people can open up a private overflow. If that’s possible then sure, it would be fair. But we all know it isn’t possible, thus we are asking no more of such achievement.

And also being bugged one week out of two weeks window didn’t help.

kgptzac.8419:

AcidicVision.5498:

snip

If you read this thread in its entirety, you will find most of your points already debunked. “Get organized and do something about it” isn’t really a valid response for this particular achievement. It’s not like an entire guild of 150 people can open up a private overflow. If that’s possible then sure, it would be fair. But we all know it isn’t possible, thus we are asking no more of such achievement.

And also being bugged one week out of two weeks window didn’t help.

Actually, an entire guild of 150+ people can open up their own overflow. And large guilds do it pretty frequently. Its been done for Wurm, Karma, Marionette, and Wardens. Sure you will end up with some players that just get lucky and happen to be zoning in, but more often than not, they are there for the achievement anyways and are willing to listen to the guild/alliance running the event.

Attunement did regular runs. TTS, TxS. And Mireles Lore hosted public events that were advertised on reddit and these forums. 9/10 of those organized community runs were done via creating an overflow and shuttling in the people that wanted to participate.

And before anyone chimes in “you shouldn’t have to be part of a large organized blah blah blah”….yes. Yes you should. That is exactly who this achievement was designed for. Those players that want that kind of challenge, preparation, planning and coordination. If that’s not your style, then you don’t have to do it.

Despite what a lot of you want to believe, there are players that love that sort of content and a single encounter can keep them busy for hours. Nearly the entire game is catered to casual and very forgiving play. So how do you make an event that will push casuals to at least be somewhat competent with the mechanics, and engage those that want something more challenging? You put in a totally optional speed run or milestone achievement for them to work for that everyone else can freely ignore.

Just because some players don’t want to make the effort, doesn’t mean things should be removed from those that do. Its a “If I cant do it, and I cant have it, then no one should” mentality. That’s the exact opposite of what you want in a game, which is content that can appeal to a wide audience in one way or another to keep the game healthy.

There were three options here:

• No difficulty – craft a cheap event back-piece, hop through a portal and see the finale.
• Average difficulty – defeat watch knights, fight Scarlet, see finale.
• High difficulty – defeat watch knights in six minutes, fight scarlet, see finale.

Thee approaches for three different types of players. You don’t see as many people making a big deal out of the In tune achievement as this. Why do you suppose that is? Because you can go into Scarlet fight, get the attunement and hit the hologram three times and then just run around without attacking and leech off everyone else for it. Six Minutes to Knightfall doesn’t allow that reward through laziness. And that makes people upset.

Anet’s most recent group events have convinced the majority of players that they do not understand the concept of balancing challenging content with doable content using the game’s actual number of players rather than a fantasy number of players they wish the game had. Unless they adjust this faulty perception, achievements that are basically undoable will continue.

AcidicVision.5498:

Six Minutes to Knightfall doesn’t allow that reward through laziness. And that makes people upset.

No, people are upset specifically because it rewards luck, not skill or hard work. You would have known that if you bothered reading the OP or if you could even remember the things you write in your own posts:

AcidicVision.5498:

Sure you will end up with some players that just get lucky

You really ought to work to work on that short term memory problem. Or on putting together compelling arguments. Exploiting arenanet’s server code and using 3rd party tools to get an achievement might be cool with you, but for most of us it is not ok.

To re-iterate for those who don’t seem to get it:

On an individual basis, this achievement is almost purely luck-based. Some players received it through error while it was bugged, some just happened to land in a coordinated map, but either way there is a small percentage of the playerbase who earned it basically through random luck. Other people (like myself) who spent actual time and effort trying to get this achievement were cheated out of it because it requires everybody on a map to function as a unit, which is simply not going to happen most of the time.

If the requirements for this had been “Defeat all three assault knights 30 times”, I would have achieved it. As it is, the 30+ times I did the event are completely unacknowledged. Other players who lucked out and landed in a TTS map their first time through will have gotten it, and even if they never did the event again, their permanent record now indicates they spent more “effort” on the event than I or players like me did.

And for those who say “You should join TTS or another big guild,” two things. First, many of these guilds have requirements or application processes that casual players are unwilling or unable to meet. Secondly, if this achievement is designed specifically for big guilds in raid-style organization, as you claim, then it needs to be made guild-specific and not part of the general, individually-achieved achievement list.

If ANet wants to implement guild achievements, more power to them, but make the achievements that show up on my individual list achievable by me individually, not me and 100+ other people.

sablephoenix.1593:

You’ve succeeded in making me angry, ArenaNet. I’ve been attempting to get Six Minutes to Knightfall the entire two weeks that this Living Story entry has been going. I’ve never seen a single map get it. This is likely because I can’t usually get on at prime times, but regardless, a timed achievement like this should not rely on a map’s worth of players.

I repeat, a timed achievement should never rely on the coordination of a full map’s worth of players for completion.

If you continue doing this stupidity you will have players, like me, who will try repeatedly and consistently to achieve it and are cheated out of it through no fault of their own.

Is your life really going to be that incomplete without that achievement? If so, I got some bad news for ya buddy, there’s hundreds more where that came from.

My advice? Move on…you’re missing out on nothing.

Luck-based titles should NEVER be temporary.

And no one can claim this one isn’t a luck based title, because from being lucky enough to fall into an overflow with enough people properly geared with adequate builds, trying to attempt it, to being lucky enough not to disconnect, luck was the greatest factor involved in getting that achievement.

Now, if a way had been added to create a private overflow a guild can take control off, choosing who can be in there, then a guild with 3 commanders could hand pick people, make sure there’s no leechers and no people going around with a level 1 character and fine gear, and that everyone knows what to do, and then skill would override luck.

But there was no such thing. So luck overrode skill, making it a temporary luck title.

And temporary luck titles should not exist.

@sablephoenix, none of those guilds or community events require membership. This is something you would know if you bothered looking into being involved. In fact, most of them dont even have rep requirements if you do decide to join so they become a second, or third guild to their members.

@Wolfpaq, you are cherry-picking my post. The achievement is not “luck based” it is organization and skill based. The people that get lucky are the ones that just happen to venture into an overflow where a community or alliance is making a run. That is bound to happen with any open world event.

The event rewards skill and hardwork (after it was fixed) for those that want to put the work in. Most of the people that think it requires luck are the ones that were just counting on luck to get it and then getting upset when they didnt. Like Sablephoenix for example. She is quick to come on the forums and go on a tirade about how horrible it is she can’t get the achievement after trying 30 times and not getting “lucky”, but couldn’t be bothered to come on the forums to get the info to participate in one of the dozens of successful public events. She had the option to remove 100% of the luck element, and chose not to. And then complains about it.

Sorry, no sympathy. The information, the tools, the communities, the time, and the support were all there. The ones who decided to take advantage of those things are the ones enjoying their shiny APs. The people QQing about it now have spent more time and energy failing the event and complaining about it, than it would have taken to get info on a public event, jump in and get it done.