Stability takes care of the chain knockdown, and as a guard, you definitely have options for stability. Do a bit of melee, especially during burn phases, and then move back to ranged if your stability is on cooldown.
I’ve noticed a lot of encounters lately are very, very unfriendly to melee. I mean it’s nice they gave some professions the option to swap weapons, but I do like to stab things from time to time.
If anything fights are predominantly anti-ranged/anti-condition. Which is funny because conditions are kitten in pve to begin with, yet they toss in extra anti-condition mechanics.
Anti-condition is not related to any of the fights themselves, but to the broken condition system and the ridiculous stack limit. Anti-ranged, well, I can’t remember anything like that. Ranged combat is faceroll.
Oh and Merlin, why exactly is complaining about a high frequency, no target limitation, 360° stun with a considerable damage output a consequence of “very easy” melee combat (which is still by orders of magnitude more challenging than range-noobing stuff) in other parts of the game?
Warning! This post may contain traces of irony, sarcasm and peanuts.
Oh and Merlin, why exactly is complaining about a high frequency, no target limitation, 360° stun with a considerable damage output a consequence of “very easy” melee combat (which is still by orders of magnitude more challenging than range-noobing stuff) in other parts of the game?
If we ignore the “hurrdurr melee hard range easy” ludicrousness you’re spewing, the reason for melee heavy counters are very simple: There is a VERY limited amount of people who actually gets punished by a fight where standing on range is negative and standing in melee is positive.
Melee abilities tend to deal higher damage, that means you need some sort of downtime to balance out the differences between Melee and Ranged, as upping Ranged dps would be absolutely mental, the best way of doing it is forcing melee to have breaks in their DPSing.
If they make 2 bosses.. lets call them… BoB and TEST, BoB might be seriously punishing to people who stand in melee, thus forcing melee specs to move AWAY from the boss, cutting into their DPS time. TEST on the other hand is incredibly supermassively punishing to bosses who stand on range, so everyone just moves into melee and ignores that issue alltogether.
There is more to it ofcourse, but this is more or less why MMOs favor melee counterabilities.
You mean that ANet tries to break the melee zerker meta for PvE in this game?
Too late, people got way to used to stack melee and burn the boss down no matter what. Requiring zero skill or coordination.
Can’t wait to play some real group content with at least a soft trinity, where group content was made for a group, not for a bunch of people that accidentally came together.
Too late, people got way to used to stack melee and burn the boss down no matter what. Requiring zero skill or coordination.
I wish, lol.
So you’re saying ranged requires skill and coordination? You mean “press V every 2 minutes to avoid pull”? Actually melee is always harder and more rewarding. Ranged in this game is nothing more than press 1 and afk for 20 minutes. But careful, don’t deal too much damage or you might get noticed by boss! I absolutely love shortbow thieves or glorious bearbows, hitting like 20 lvl warrior and proud they’re dying last.
All I say is, as soon as people would have to adapt to a mechanic that requires to move out of a red cycle close to a boss, ends in people complaining.
God forbid, that standing in melee range would cause people to still take care of some calls every now and then…
I think people should look at it from the guards perspective though. Scepter dps is high but it comes with only 2 skills, AA&Smite, while others have a better variety.
I can throw down my stability concentrate, but the couple of times I’ve done so its not long enough to justify the dmg loss trying to go-in, go-out and all the dodges, when I can just sit at the side, and just basically afk AA
If I can get longbow, so I can use Aether, than great or a way to negate dmg from melee other than focus 5.
I like ranged combat, it allows me to play and sip a c’ocktail at the same time. It also requires coordination to sync drinking and pressing dodge key every minute.
Anti-condition is not related to any of the fights themselves, but to the broken condition system and the ridiculous stack limit. Anti-ranged, well, I can’t remember anything like that. Ranged combat is faceroll.
Oh and Merlin, why exactly is complaining about a high frequency, no target limitation, 360° stun with a considerable damage output a consequence of “very easy” melee combat (which is still by orders of magnitude more challenging than range-noobing stuff) in other parts of the game?
I don’t know, because i play necromancer so basicly all i do is dodge rings and mass Aoe.. (and i am well accustomed to stuns ^^) while trying to get as much DPs in with a powerbuild..
For a real answer look @ posts above me..
54 infractions and counting because a moderator doesn’t understand a joke when he/she sees it.
E.A.D.
If anything fights are predominantly anti-ranged/anti-condition. Which is funny because conditions are kitten in pve to begin with, yet they toss in extra anti-condition mechanics.
That boggles my mind. I wish a dev could explain that to us.
I like melee combat, I just press auto attack once and if anything happens, I just wait to get an insta rezz for the rare case that I get down.
You seem to forget all aoe buffs, healing, condi clean, fields and blasts. Let us know when you’ll get all of these (or at least insta rezz) staying at 1200.
I like melee combat, I just press auto attack once and if anything happens, I just wait to get an insta rezz for the rare case that I get down.
You seem to forget all aoe buffs, healing, condi clean, fields and blasts. Let us know when you’ll get all of these (or at least insta rezz) staying at 1200.
You seem to have missed, that my answer was an ironic approach to the so called “difficulty” of playing in melee range in regards of this post:
I like ranged combat, it allows me to play and sip a c’ocktail at the same time. It also requires coordination to sync drinking and pressing dodge key every minute.
I like ranged combat, it allows me to play and sip a c’ocktail at the same time. It also requires coordination to sync drinking and pressing dodge key every minute.
Actually I noticed that was ironic, but your answer suggested melee is a total faceroll and it’s better to afk in the back. Haviz is right, I could easily cook a dinner during Knight fight if it wouldn’t pull and lose target every minute. Knights and holograms are a huge waste of time, even bigger because of ranged. Only difficulty of this event is to stay awake, and I have to admit it IS hard.
I like ranged combat, it allows me to play and sip a c’ocktail at the same time. It also requires coordination to sync drinking and pressing dodge key every minute.
Actually I noticed that was ironic, but your answer suggested melee is a total faceroll and it’s better to afk in the back. Haviz is right, I could easily cook a dinner during Knight fight if it wouldn’t pull and lose target every minute. Knights and holograms are a huge waste of time, even bigger because of ranged. Only difficulty of this event is to stay awake, and I have to admit it IS hard.
Nothing anti-melee about these bosses, I find its more the unwillingness of melee characters to learn to dodge and/or use stability. In pretty much every Knight encounter I’ve been in, I tell people that dodging right after the giant AOE circle of doom disappears allows you to evade the pull and knock-down attack. Does anyone listen?.. nope! They spend most of the fight on the floor because they dont want to hit an extra key every minute or so.
I think most people who play melee classes are so used to facerolling everything without any effort that when a challenge is finally put in front of them they complain about it.
By the way, I do most of these encounters on either my Warrior or Guardian with ease, while I can play Mesmer and just afk spam 1 from miles away its not quite as fun as putting actual effort into an event.
So how exactly do you consistently negate the knight’s 360° melee attack which extends beyond max melee range and happens far too often to dodge/block it for more than a few seconds? Unless of course you run cleric facetanking gear, but then even a zerker player standing AFK in the mists will deal more damage to the knight.
Warning! This post may contain traces of irony, sarcasm and peanuts.
More excuses man, you can easily dodge the majority of attacks, soak up some others and switch to range for a bit. People refuse to adapt and accept you cant just stand still hitting 1 all day long.
And while yes I do use mixtures of Knights/Clerics/Soldiers on my characters for WvW this only further proves that people still wont budge from the so called Zerker Warrior Meta they have become so used to.
More excuses man, you can easily dodge the majority of attacks, soak up some others and switch to range for a bit. People refuse to adapt and accept you cant just stand still hitting 1 all day long.
And while yes I do use mixtures of Knights/Clerics/Soldiers on my characters for WvW this only further proves that people still wont budge from the so called Zerker Warrior Meta they have become so used to.
Ok, that’s all I wanted to know. I actually prefer fighting the knights instead of standing around uselessly and soaking up one attunement spot.
Warning! This post may contain traces of irony, sarcasm and peanuts.
More excuses man, you can easily dodge the majority of attacks, soak up some others and switch to range for a bit. People refuse to adapt and accept you cant just stand still hitting 1 all day long.
And while yes I do use mixtures of Knights/Clerics/Soldiers on my characters for WvW this only further proves that people still wont budge from the so called Zerker Warrior Meta they have become so used to.
I don’t think someone who plays the most faceroll class in the game (whirlwind, riposte, low cd, burst skill endu regen combined with fast weapon switching not to mention all the movements skills to go back into melee after backing from a series of auto) along with knight and soldier gear on said faceroll class to boot should try to teach anyone a lesson in this thread. Try to melee this on an ele or bomb kit engi and we’ll see how it goes.
I’ve done it melee on bomb kit engi without going down but I felt it was a waste of time more than anything else because the downtime on damage was just too high and the reward for being in melee and taking risks absolutely not worth anything. I’d probably do more damage just building for rifle ranged damage than having to use a sigil of energy in melee trying to hit with bombs.
Don’t even mention the grenade kit, it should be renamed as the suicide kit when used on the knights.
This fight is incredibly boring on engi, it’s either you do no damage bombing from time to time or you do some pathetic ranged damage while almost afking and only pressing V when the big bad circle appears which has the easiest tell to dodge in the whole game. The fact that I see so many in the zergs getting pulled by such an obvious tell gives me cancer.
The whole thing is incredibly bad design, one of the worst fight in the game. It’s either Guild Warriors if you want to have melee fun, or Guild Boredom if you’re ranging almost afk just pressing V on the big bad orange circle. There is literally no punishing attack at all for those who range which isn’t how a good fight should be. Even range should be punished in some way. Pressing V every 10 seconds is not enough pressure on ranged characters. The most challenging thing about the whole fight (and the holo) is to not fall asleep on your keyboard.
- “No tears, please. It’s a waste of good suffering.”
All I say is, as soon as people would have to adapt to a mechanic that requires to move out of a red cycle close to a boss, ends in people complaining.
God forbid, that standing in melee range would cause people to still take care of some calls every now and then…
One problem with melee is that it’s hard to see the red circles amid all of the screen clutter. It would be nice if bosses had cast timers as it’s can be difficult to see the mechanic going off or what it means. Not all of us have top of the line gaming computers and I imagine screen clutter is still a problem on those.
Nothing auto attacks better than a warrior in melee range anyway.
You’re dead after 4-5 autoattack on a warrior. Healing signet is not strong enough this time.
Not that it really matters when all evasion (whirlwind, reckless dodge) and blocks (riposte) do damage along with your gap closing skills. Warrior might not have the best theoretical dps in the game but they sure are the most practical in certain circumstances.
- “No tears, please. It’s a waste of good suffering.”
So how exactly do you consistently negate the knight’s 360° melee attack which extends beyond max melee range and happens far too often to dodge/block it for more than a few seconds? Unless of course you run cleric facetanking gear, but then even a zerker player standing AFK in the mists will deal more damage to the knight.
^^This. As a flamthrower engi at max range behind the knight I was still chain-stunned down after running out of dodges and blocks. Fortunately I was far enough away the people could get me up without being downed themselves. In melee though, if you go down, you are dead, and will probably take a foresight-lacking “noble soul” or two with you
It would be fine if there were a clear way for melee to deal with it that wasn’t “Only attack during telegraph animations”.
Not that it really matters when all evasion (whirlwind, reckless dodge) and blocks (riposte) do damage along with your gap closing skills. Warrior might not have the best theoretical dps in the game but they sure are the most practical in certain circumstances.
Reckless dodge? Did you mean building momentum?
Anyway, I know how to handle melee. Before forced splitting I was usually alone like a stone at the green knight. I was able to survive 10-15 minutes and dealt about 5% of his hp. Dynamic scaling ftw!
For me the problem is that two classes have some of the tools to deal with the knights and every other class is forced out to range. Thieves in particular have no practical melee options and very poor ranged combat for this fight. Thief utility is almost meaningless here too.
(I don’t want anyone to prove themselves super-elite by posting a melee thief video, it doesn’t solve anything for the casual thieves who can’t perfect dodge everything).
There are a few moments where you can melee the boss. The point is to be constantly switching between your melee and ranged weapons. I know I know, you didn’t roll an ele cause you didn’t want to have to constantly bars, but there ya go. You can safely range it for a while, an safely melee it when it’s casting that big circle pull.
and you are probably not supposed to be at meele range all the time when fighting the knights.
If that was true (as an intent from anet) then it doesn’t work on all classes, for starter, and secondly, if the fight was intended to be ranged more than melee’d, then why did they not introduce any amount of threat or pressure onto ranged characters ? (unless you mean that afkrange should be a thing) heck, there shouldn’t be a fight in this game that is so trivialized by range that literally nothing can threaten you except for one single extremely telegraphed pull every 10 seconds that anyone could dodge. When you range the knights there is literally nothing that can even do any amount of noticeable damage. That makes for a rather mediocre encounter.
The knights aren’t the only boss trivialized by ranged weapons but I feel they are close to being the encounter with the least amount of threat to range users in this game. Even Ginva puts more pressure on range users and that’s saying something. Particularly as his pull is not a gigantic orange circle with a long build up and he reflects projectiles at times.
The melee vs range issue on the knight is that they don’t give enough incentive to melee unless you’re on a class with a particularly strong amount of block/evasive damage. What’s the incentive to take any sort of risk when you could almost afk the fight just pressing V and targeting from time to time. You don’t even have to move around much.
- “No tears, please. It’s a waste of good suffering.”
For me the problem is that two classes have some of the tools to deal with the knights and every other class is forced out to range. Thieves in particular have no practical melee options and very poor ranged combat for this fight. Thief utility is almost meaningless here too.
I laughed. Go S/P, Infiltrator’s Strike in, Pistol Whip until out of initiative or Infiltrator’s Return is about to go out, use it, repeat. Roll for Initiative/Withdraw if you’re getting stunlocked or need healing, Signet of Agility to help if both of those are on cooldown so you can evade more, if Charr use Battle Roar to give yourself some Fury and Might to help with the damage and Artillary Barrage to give some constant damage while you back off.
I never got killed while near her, though I was downed maybe 4 times the entire match. I was running 25/30/15/0/0 and full zerker gear. This and the hologram are two of the easier fights in the game to zerk. I’m not known for using zerker gear in PvE, but these two fights are so easy and such a DPS race that it’s hard not to.
[hS]
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald
Nothing anti-melee about these bosses, I find its more the unwillingness of melee characters to learn to dodge and/or use stability. In pretty much every Knight encounter I’ve been in, I tell people that dodging right after the giant AOE circle of doom disappears allows you to evade the pull and knock-down attack. Does anyone listen?.. nope! They spend most of the fight on the floor because they dont want to hit an extra key every minute or so.
This, this, this. And, if I had to guess, it’s those same people who demand you rez them, risking yourself, instead of porting running back to the fight . . . a mere thirty seconds away.
They’d rather you make more of an effort rezzing them, than they did avoiding death.
Nothing anti-melee about these bosses, I find its more the unwillingness of melee characters to learn to dodge and/or use stability. In pretty much every Knight encounter I’ve been in, I tell people that dodging right after the giant AOE circle of doom disappears allows you to evade the pull and knock-down attack. Does anyone listen?.. nope! They spend most of the fight on the floor because they dont want to hit an extra key every minute or so.
This, this, this. And, if I had to guess, it’s those same people who demand you rez them, risking yourself, instead of porting running back to the fight . . . a mere thirty seconds away.
They’d rather you make more of an effort rezzing them, than they did avoiding death.
The pull doesn’t affect melee players so why is it even brought in that context?
I like ranged combat, it allows me to play and sip a c’ocktail at the same time. It also requires coordination to sync drinking and pressing dodge key every minute.
There should be more outcry on why this boss trio is anti-conditions, especially since one of the four bosses the trio’s defeat unlocks are vulnerable to conditions almost exclusively. The result: Any group that actually stands a chance of getting six minutes will hit a brick wall.
No more non cosmetic world event rewards. We haven’t forgotten the Ancient Karka.
