Guild Wars 2

I’ve been melleeing them fairly successfully although I am playing Mes so I have evade. I have to back off some of the time but I can spend the majority of the fight in mellee range. I would imagine you could do similar with stability and some well timed dodges on a War or Guard. Mellee generally has higher dps than range so that’s why they make it harder.

It sucks for my necro though since they reflect conditions for most of the fight. As if conditions in group pve didn’t feel sub par enough.

Best part is being a Thief and not having 1200 range weapon.

I don’t really mind some bosses being anti-melee. Some enemies are better fought range, some better melee, and its fine if bosses follow that logic as well. All classes have melee and ranged options (well, minus Engineers, poor guys) for a reason.

Not sure I understand how people are claiming the knights aren’t in fact anti-melee though. Yah, dodging the big glowy AoE is easy enough, for sure. Yah, stability fixes the problem of getting knocked on your back constantly. But the boss still hits like a truck even with its basic attacks, and you can’t avoid those short of invulnerability or a whole lot of blocks.

I have a half-Cleric, half-Zerker Guardian spec’d for symbol healing and using hammer. She cannot stand in melee range more than maybe 5 seconds if that before she goes down. Might be able to last a little longer with Mace / Focus due to blocks, but I haven’t tried it and even then it’d probably be a couple seconds more at best.

I have a Knights / Celestial Elementalist. He goes down even faster if I choose to wander into melee range.

Even my full Cleric’s / Zealot’s Ranger spec’d for maximum tankiness from healing spring and signet of the wild can’t stay in melee range very long. My pets can (well, certain pets, bears and drakes mostly, though even they have to be pulled back occasionally to regen) but not me.

Lukhas.1962:

No problem for me.

kitten me, i love to see what damage you can do in wvw..

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Pretty sure he wrote pull and knock-down attack. And I’m sure I’ve seen more than a few meleers stupid enough to just stand in it until they die.

Experience is funny like that.

Fair enough but after a pull you just dodge and the melee daze attack is negated. It’s anti-melee because of very frequent attacks with high damage and 360 degree efficient angle not because of a pull that you can simply dodge once in a while.

Im thief and can melee this boss fine just put some stun break in utility bar. beside you can dodge the last 2 swing and switch to dual pistol.

haviz.1340:

Fair enough but after a pull you just dodge and the melee daze attack is negated. It’s anti-melee because of very frequent attacks with high damage and 360 degree efficient angle not because of a pull that you can simply dodge once in a while.

It’s not something you can “simply dodge once in a while”. It’s something you can dodge all the time. More to the point, there’s an achievement if you do so successfully.

And, if it’s so “anti-melee” feel free to switch weapons.

I was under the impression everyone has access to ranged weapons. While I’m sure some classes are used to face-rolling everything in melee mode, adaption isn’t a four-letter word either.

This unwillingness to adapt, or change tactics, shows the difference between those players who stay alive the entire fight, and those players waiting for a rez because they also refuse to port and run the thirty-seconds back into the event.

I play a ranger. And I’m using a melee pet. A fragile cat to boot. And it doesn’t die against the knights. Sad state when my pet is tanking better than the warriors complaining about this “anti-melee” boss.

Very sad.

Wait anti melee? in which way? the knights have 2 key attacks.
1. Their stomp, which is telegraphed and animated so if your not dodging that’s your own fault.
2. Their pull. This is anything but anti melee since the area around the knight is completely unaffected. In fact this is purely focused on dragging range to her feet so she can get a crack at us. even the attack that follow is a slow animation that only hits in front so if you can’t get the timing to dodge the pull or the follow up attack its purely your own fault.

Its a sad state if this level of telegraphs is bothering you. This is a balanced fight. attacking both melee and range equally. If you had to complain it should be about the fact its pretty much a dps race where we have to hit the dodge button ever now and then and that’s it.

Doggie.3184:

Best part is being a Thief and not having 1200 range weapon.

Like we need it. If the knight doesn’t move, you can stay right outside of her AoE range and still hit her.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Doggie.3184:

Best part is being a Thief and not having 1200 range weapon.

Like we need it. If the knight doesn’t move, you can stay right outside of her AoE range and still hit her.

I just tired of having to follow her around all over the place at the very edge of aoe to trigger my auto attack, otherwise I have to break my button spamming my 1 skill rapidly and a lot of bosses are like this. I wish they’d just set us to 1200 and get it over with. Bosses with 9000 toughness and 900000 HP are rather tedious when you can’t range AA it or melee.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

It’s not something you can “simply dodge once in a while”. It’s something you can dodge all the time. More to the point, there’s an achievement if you do so successfully.

And, if it’s so “anti-melee” feel free to switch weapons.

I was under the impression everyone has access to ranged weapons. While I’m sure some classes are used to face-rolling everything in melee mode, adaption isn’t a four-letter word either.

This unwillingness to adapt, or change tactics, shows the difference between those players who stay alive the entire fight, and those players waiting for a rez because they also refuse to port and run the thirty-seconds back into the event.

I play a ranger. And I’m using a melee pet. A fragile cat to boot. And it doesn’t die against the knights. Sad state when my pet is tanking better than the warriors complaining about this “anti-melee” boss.

Very sad.

First of all, even if you fail to dodge a pull, you can still dodge the following attack without any timing (just by spamming dodge key while being disabled). The fact that there’s an achievement for dodging 3s long attack just tells why this game is strictly casual friendly.

I’m not sure why do you propose to swap weapons. The fact is that I don’t want to swap because ranged combat is boring. Playing with melee weapons is more active and requires more input from the player.

I have no issue with staying alive, in fact I was soloing green knight on an empty overflow for about 10 minutes with no problems. I’m complaining that knights do not promote active combat since the least risky with the highest reward option is to stay at range and pew pew. I expect more engaging gameplay from gw2.

I’m also talking from the perspective of a glass cannon elementalist.

haviz.1340:

You’re dead after 4-5 autoattack on a warrior. Healing signet is not strong enough this time.

Which one is it? You’re not strong enough or you survive perfectly well? The fact you’re changing your tune, and contradicting yourself now, kind of proves my point.

Please make up your mind and stick to that one please.

Also, your unwillingness to even consider switching weapons “because it’s boring and lacks a challenge” again proves my point. And then you complain that the boss is too “anti-melee”? Sounds like the challenge you wanted.

Again, which one is it?

Please choose which argument you want to stand on before you post. Your latest reasoning make you sound like you lack linear logic. Or, you just don’t know what you’re saying.

Personally, I’m thinking the latter.

Stability. Dodge. Blocks. Blinds (when vulnerable to conditions). I’d say there are plenty of useful tools to aid melee. These knights are probably the most engaging bosses I have ever fought. You really, really need to pay attention to what is going on otherwise you get downed pretty easily. Coupled with life on crit food, regen, and good endurance management (with energy sigils), you can get by with 80% melee. You only have to pull out when things get too dicey which is totally fine (buahaha); that’s what some range is used for. On a zerker warrior, I have done just fine. Axe/Shield + LB, heal on crit food, and healing signet + regen fields from eles and rangers and it’s a real fun melee fight. The conditions that get reflected are what really do me in though, but that’s another topic.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Which one is it? You’re not strong enough or you survive perfectly well? The fact you’re changing your tune, and contradicting yourself now, kind of proves my point.

Please make up your mind and stick to that one please.

Also, your unwillingness to even consider switching weapons “because it’s boring and lacks a challenge” again proves my point. And then you complain that the boss is too “anti-melee”? Sounds like the challenge you wanted.

Again, which one is it?

Please choose which argument you want to stand on before you post. Your latest reasoning make you sound like you lack linear logic. Or, you just don’t know what you’re saying.

Personally, I’m thinking the latter.

We’re discussing in the living story forums, I’m taking the perspective of a casual player. I’m not going to say how easy it is for me because that often leads to non-productive discussions.

Unless you think that anet shouldn’t design living story content with an average player in mind, that is.

Plus, that thing you quoted was filled with sarcasm and I’m sorry for the confusion. That was between me and other poster.

Let’s put this into perspective: how many other “anti-melee” bosses or threads has this board seen?

The content causing this frustration is temporary and doesn’t appear to affect the overall “melee” community. Plus there are obvious ways around it.

I’m casual. As casual as you can get. And my pet is doing fine on the encounter.

The knights aren’t “anti-melee” . . . they’re anti-button spamming. The encounter forces players to think a little further than hitting one or two buttons if they want to survive.

That’s not “anti-melee”, that’s “anti-brain dead.”

And at the same time you don’t have to do anything except spam those buttons if you stay far away and dodge once every 10-15 seconds. That’s my problem, if anet wants to punish melee users for spamming they should also punish ranged users for doing the same thing which currently is not the case.

ranged – normal damage, almost no risk.
melee – a bit higher damage because of constant dodging and much more risk.

It’s not balanced.

haviz.1340:

And at the same time you don’t have to do anything except spam those buttons if you stay far away and dodge once every 10-15 seconds. That’s my problem, if anet wants to punish melee users for spamming they should also punish ranged users for doing the same thing which currently is not the case.

ranged – normal damage, almost no risk.
melee – a bit higher damage because of constant dodging and much more risk.

It’s not balanced.

Actually the damage between ranged and melee is quite significant for AA.

Again, if you feel that strongly, instead of “punishing” ranged as well, why don’t you use range instead for this one fight?

Geez.

You know, there was another game that started to dumb down everything because certain players refused to adapt. They listened to the nonstop complaints because certain things were “too hard” to learn, to adjust to, and adapt to. So they removed all the choices and made them for you.

I really don’t want Guild Wars 2 to go down that path.

Do you?

It’s one fight. And temporary at that. Please know what you’re asking.

At the end of the day this game is as easy as no other game.

The fact that people fail is, that they are put into large groups with other random people that are just terribad and there is nothing they can do about it.

Unless you bend the system like TTS with overflows. But if that is ok, they could have given us just proper instances…

Kaiyanwan.8521:

At the end of the day this game is as easy as no other game.

The fact that people fail is, that they are put into large groups with other random people that are just terribad and there is nothing they can do about it.

Sadly, you may be onto something. Guess they’ll always have the forums to show it.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Again, if you feel that strongly, instead of “punishing” ranged as well, why don’t you use range instead for this one fight?

Geez.

You know, there was another game that started to dumb down everything because certain players refused to adapt. They listened to the nonstop complaints because certain things were “too hard” to learn, to adjust to, and adapt to. So they removed all the choices and made them for you.

I really don’t want Guild Wars 2 to go down that path.

Do you?

It’s one fight. And temporary at that. Please know what you’re asking.

It really seems counterproductive, what I’ve been trying to tell you. I don’t have to use ranged weapons and if I wanted I would. That’s not my problem. You keep saying how they dumb down the game but making bosses in such a way that the most efficient way to kill them is to stay back is already dumbing them down. Game designers should motivate the playerbase to improve, not the other way.

Katastrofi.5816:

Actually the damage between ranged and melee is quite significant for AA.

Depending on the profession. Elementalist with a staff spamming 1,2 and 5 is one of the best dps spec in the game. And you don’t have to put much effort into it, dodging once every 10-15 seconds is all it takes for this combat.

haviz.1340:

It really seems counterproductive, what I’ve been trying to tell you. I don’t have to use ranged weapons and if I wanted I would. That’s not my problem. You keep saying how they dumb down the game but making bosses in such a way that the most efficient way to kill them is to stay back is already dumbing them down. Game designers should motivate the playerbase to improve, not the other way.

Thank you. You need to reread what I wrote because you just, indirectly, agreed with me while disproving your own point.

I don’t want anyone to dumb down content. What have I been saying? Adapt.

Thank you again for seeing the light.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Thank you. You need to reread what I wrote because you just, indirectly, agreed with me while disproving your own point.

I don’t want anyone to dumb down content. What have I been saying? Adapt.

Thank you again for seeing the light.

If that’s what you see, I’m okay with that. I just don’t know how adapting equals to standing in 1200 range and pressing ‘v’ every 10-15 seconds but that’s my personal opinion. This fight already dumbs down the content and the whole thread is about it.

Every encounter in this game is insanely melee hostile while being a snooze-fest for most ranged. The Knights are no exception.

And you know what? It’s the same in nearly all MMOs.

Somehow designers can’t stop giving bosses auto-attacks, a form of attack that nearly always targets melees. This makes somewhat sense when you have a tanking role, but GW2 does not have tanks, so auto-attacks make no sense on bosses.

At ranged, you may have to avoid 1-2 special attacks every once in a while. In melee range you have to do that + avoid auto-attacks and all while seeing absolutely kitten-all because of the excessive particle effects.

Dee Jay.2460:

… all while seeing absolutely kitten-all because of the excessive particle effects.

That’s the only gripe I have. But other than that, if you’re moving and ‘actively’ engaging enemies (read: NOT standing there auto-attacking and then complaining that the enemy hits too hard), dodging, using skills and group abilities to the maximum potential, and knowing when to put a few seconds of distance every now and then, melee is very, very powerful.

Of course, being an EFFECTIVE melee pure zerker player requires a great deal of concentration, timing, reaction time, and awareness, and the problem is 99% of the players rip builds off of forums that describe how awesomely pew-pew these zerker builds are without the ability to handle them. Then they come onto said forums and complain because it’s not working out and they get one-shot.

I’m not a perfect player, but I’m 90% melee in every class I play and I only have zerker gear, and with the exception of a few kitten moments and occasional lack of concentration (joking around in voice chat, etc) I stay alive most of the time and actively fighting.

The knight mechanic based off my experience
-Spams a three-swing AA between larger (one dodge can evade first two swings, a slight delay after first dodge will evade the 3rd KD hit). Sometimes these come in succession for up to 2 or even 3 rounds. In this case, dodge out and pull out ranged weapon.

-Flies up in the air and comes down with a KD hit. Red circle to indicate this; simply dodge it.

-Very large pull. If you’re meleeing you don’t even have to worry about this because you don’t get pulled in melee range. If you are ranging, just dodge it as soon as the red circle goes away. He follows up with some daze attack so you have to get the timing right to evade that one.

That’s literally it. For a warrior this isn’t too hard. You have a decent amount of health regen if you’re standing in healing with signet and food. Couple with some dodging and balanced stance, you can weather a coupe rounds of the AA without needing to pull out. If you run out of endurance, drop back and use your bow (slot an energy sigil so you can dodge out right when you swap if you’re out of endurance); I usually use the opportunity to stack some might with the burst + skill 3. Also, use the skill 4 blind (I don’t know the name of skills, just the numbers) when he’s vulnerable to condis – it helps to swap back to your melee and jump in right when you use it. I use a shield, so I use the block when I’m really in trouble, but it’s a last resort thing.

This is far from an impossible fight for melee. I’ve done it with a guardian, mesmer (bad dps because illusions get demolished), and elementalist and all classes are capable of surviving melee. Like I said, I’ve gotten plastered many times but that’s usually due to me slipping or mismanaging dodging/weapon swapping. Difficult? Sure. Requires a high level of skill? Yes. Standing there in his face while AAing, expecting to last more than two hits? No.

I have tried the knight fights with both casters and melee, and I have to say that I prefer it with melee characters.

It may be an off the wall type of play style, but I let it pull me, dodge the attack, and there I am, right where I need to be to melee DPS. I have been downed quite a few times, but as another poster said, it’s my own kittened fault at the time. In those cases, I usually let myself die and hit the WP rather than keep trying to heal myself in order to try not to take some well-meaning soul with me.

I seem to have more issues with staying out of the attacks from the holograms than I do with the knights.

The knights’ 360 degree attack arc makes melee pointless except for keeping the knights in one place where they can get nuked consistently. You either have to spend so much time dodging and leaving melee range to avoid the hammer swings, or build your character tanky enough to soak them, that a zerker staff ele out-damages you with none of the risk.

You’re better off just ranging the knights, no dodging/no wasted utility means more uptime on AA damage

But, again, I’d like to iterate that ranging on a guardian is basically just pressing 1 and 2.