Guild Wars 2

Elen Kiel was supposed to have built air defenses in light of the revelation Scarlett was going to attack LA.
Where was this air defense? Scarlett’s airships basically walked into LA with no contest.
I wonder if Gnashblade could have defended LA better…

Kiel was stonewalled by the rest of the council, no AA defenses ever got built. If Evon was on the council it would have been the same outcome.

Riot Inducer.8964:

Kiel was stonewalled by the rest of the council, no AA defenses ever got built. If Evon was on the council it would have been the same outcome.

Except Evon could have just built them himself and said kitten off to the Council. Or just thrown his realistic political clout around and made them listen. Threaten politicians with major financial situations and they have a tendency to back down.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Riot Inducer.8964:

Kiel was stonewalled by the rest of the council, no AA defenses ever got built. If Evon was on the council it would have been the same outcome.

Except Evon could have just built them himself and said kitten off to the Council. Or just thrown his realistic political clout around and made them listen. Threaten politicians with major financial situations and they have a tendency to back down.

If he could, then why didn’t he do so?

CorneliusCoffin.3169:

If he could, then why didn’t he do so?

Because they chose Kiel. Why should he spend his money only to have them take the credit for it? (And let’s be honest, Kiel would take the credit for it. She’s done it before.)

CorneliusCoffin.3169:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Riot Inducer.8964:

Kiel was stonewalled by the rest of the council, no AA defenses ever got built. If Evon was on the council it would have been the same outcome.

Except Evon could have just built them himself and said kitten off to the Council. Or just thrown his realistic political clout around and made them listen. Threaten politicians with major financial situations and they have a tendency to back down.

If he could, then why didn’t he do so?

He’s a Charr. They’re vindictive. That’s what everyone gets for not electing him like they should.

Kal Spiro.9745:

CorneliusCoffin.3169:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Riot Inducer.8964:

Kiel was stonewalled by the rest of the council, no AA defenses ever got built. If Evon was on the council it would have been the same outcome.

Except Evon could have just built them himself and said kitten off to the Council. Or just thrown his realistic political clout around and made them listen. Threaten politicians with major financial situations and they have a tendency to back down.

If he could, then why didn’t he do so?

He’s a Charr. They’re vindictive. That’s what everyone gets for not electing him like they should.

Well smart move. Played out really well for him, cosnidering he’s now under direct orders of the lion’s guard, possibly facing execution. Top-strategist that Gnashblade. Almost makes you wonder how he did not end up on the captain’s council.

Just shows how pathetic of a politician, let alone a speaker that she failed to convince the rest of the council.

Palador.2170:

Because they chose Kiel. Why should he spend his money only to have them take the credit for it? (And let’s be honest, Kiel would take the credit for it. She’s done it before.)

So you’re saving that Evon is selfish and only cares about glory. It’s good to see that you’ve finally come around to Kiel’s side on this! Fortunately, she’s principled and is making Evon help even when he doesn’t want to, so perhaps there’s still some hope for Lion’s Arch in the end.

Xiahou Mao.9701:

Palador.2170:

Because they chose Kiel. Why should he spend his money only to have them take the credit for it? (And let’s be honest, Kiel would take the credit for it. She’s done it before.)

So you’re saving that Evon is selfish and only cares about glory. It’s good to see that you’ve finally come around to Kiel’s side on this! Fortunately, she’s principled and is making Evon help even when he doesn’t want to, so perhaps there’s still some hope for Lion’s Arch in the end.

She’s forcing him to help. Note that at NO point did she ever try… you know… ASKING him to help.

And why are they basically robbing Evon when one of the Captains’ Council boasted that she’s pretty much the richest person in the world? It was the Council’s failure to listen to Kiel that lead to this, so it’s somehow fair that Evon pays for it?

That’s a nice reply, but at no point does it actually say that Evon isn’t selfish and doesn’t only care about glory. Even the Order of Whispers wouldn’t try to defend the indefensible.

Xiahou Mao.9701:

That’s a nice reply, but at no point does it actually say that Evon isn’t selfish and doesn’t only care about glory. Even the Order of Whispers wouldn’t try to defend the indefensible.

Evon doesn’t care anything for glory. He’s Ash legion.

Greedy, maybe, but for greed’s sake, not glory, that’s dumb.

Xiahou Mao.9701:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Evon doesn’t care anything for glory. He’s Ash legion.

Then why did you post this earlier?

Palador.2170:

Because they chose Kiel. Why should he spend his money only to have them take the credit for it? (And let’s be honest, Kiel would take the credit for it. She’s done it before.)

C’mon, you can’t even keep your story straight within the same thread.

Maybe you should see who posted what and rethink that statement?

[Edit] But okay, I’ll answer.

Evon is good at his job. He’s very good at it, usually. He started it for the Ash Legion, and the marketplace is his field of combat. Be it for honor, or wealth, or to serve the Legions, this is how he measures his worth.

You can’t really expect him to just let someone take that from him, to take all his work and skill and claim it as their own doing. To take the honor, and the wealth, and to turn it all to their own uses instead of the Legions’.

CorneliusCoffin.3169:

Kal Spiro.9745:

CorneliusCoffin.3169:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Riot Inducer.8964:

Kiel was stonewalled by the rest of the council, no AA defenses ever got built. If Evon was on the council it would have been the same outcome.

Except Evon could have just built them himself and said kitten off to the Council. Or just thrown his realistic political clout around and made them listen. Threaten politicians with major financial situations and they have a tendency to back down.

If he could, then why didn’t he do so?

He’s a Charr. They’re vindictive. That’s what everyone gets for not electing him like they should.

Well smart move. Played out really well for him, cosnidering he’s now under direct orders of the lion’s guard, possibly facing execution. Top-strategist that Gnashblade. Almost makes you wonder how he did not end up on the captain’s council.

Yep. Brilliant move on his part. “I WARNED THEM ALL ABOUT IT!”
random npc: “then how come I only saw you pacing about your businessplace kittening about Kiel winning the election?”

^ Cause that’s pretty much exactly what happened.

Palador.2170:

Xiahou Mao.9701:

Palador.2170:

Because they chose Kiel. Why should he spend his money only to have them take the credit for it? (And let’s be honest, Kiel would take the credit for it. She’s done it before.)

So you’re saving that Evon is selfish and only cares about glory. It’s good to see that you’ve finally come around to Kiel’s side on this! Fortunately, she’s principled and is making Evon help even when he doesn’t want to, so perhaps there’s still some hope for Lion’s Arch in the end.

She’s forcing him to help. Note that at NO point did she ever try… you know… ASKING him to help.

And why are they basically robbing Evon when one of the Captains’ Council boasted that she’s pretty much the richest person in the world? It was the Council’s failure to listen to Kiel that lead to this, so it’s somehow fair that Evon pays for it?

Based on the dialogue, he’d have told her to kitten off and go away. Because you see, he’s sitting there badmouthing Kiel and Magnus, while those two are in the city actually fighting/helping plan to retake LA.

He at no point mentions helping the lionguard retake the city, and outright objects to being told to supply the lionguard. Look at what he says to the Asura when she walks up… “Shouldn’t you be failing somewhere else?” He cares nothing for anybody but himself.

As for the actual topic of air defense, Kiel was trying to convince the council to reinforce the air defenses and fortify the city more, but got stonewalled as the majority of councilmembers didn’t believe Scarlet would attack again so soon.

edit: Like I said elsewhere, when has Kiel stolen credit from the player? I don’t recall this ever happening in what I’ve seen.

Palador.2170:

Maybe you should see who posted what and rethink that statement?

Already did and deleted the mistaken post in question.

Idk, you can’t really blame Evon for not ponying up and buying AA defenses for LA himself out of the goodness of his heart when any one of the council members could’ve done so themselves. If Evon’s bad for not doing more, then the rest of the council (outside of Kiel) are far worse for their negligence imo.

Kalavier.1097:

CorneliusCoffin.3169:

Kal Spiro.9745:

CorneliusCoffin.3169:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Riot Inducer.8964:

Kiel was stonewalled by the rest of the council, no AA defenses ever got built. If Evon was on the council it would have been the same outcome.

Except Evon could have just built them himself and said kitten off to the Council. Or just thrown his realistic political clout around and made them listen. Threaten politicians with major financial situations and they have a tendency to back down.

If he could, then why didn’t he do so?

He’s a Charr. They’re vindictive. That’s what everyone gets for not electing him like they should.

Well smart move. Played out really well for him, cosnidering he’s now under direct orders of the lion’s guard, possibly facing execution. Top-strategist that Gnashblade. Almost makes you wonder how he did not end up on the captain’s council.

Yep. Brilliant move on his part. “I WARNED THEM ALL ABOUT IT!”
random npc: “then how come I only saw you pacing about your businessplace kittening about Kiel winning the election?”

^ Cause that’s pretty much exactly what happened.

Because he’s Charr. That’s how Charr are. If he’d been elected he’d be right in the thick of things like everyone else. He wasn’t, so it’s not his problem and he’s not going to invest in it. Too bad for them. That’s how Charr think. It probably has something to do with the years of constant war after having their land taken from them by the humans. It’s cultural.

I’m not claiming it’s noble, and definitely that he’s more noble than Kiel. Just that he would have been a better choice for Council. Especially since he would be doing what he had to for the protection of the city, but that Kiel would ALSO be helping cause that’s just the way she is. Therefore if Evon had won there would be more active support for LA than there is because he lost.

Kalavier.1097:

Based on the dialogue, he’d have told her to kitten off and go away. Because you see, he’s sitting there badmouthing Kiel and Magnus, while those two are in the city actually fighting/helping plan to retake LA.

Nah. He would have laughed. Gloated for a moment or two. And then, he would have gotten to work and found a way to sell them what they wanted and make a profit out of it.

I would also point out that Magnus is the head of the Lionguard, and Kiel works under him. It’s their JOB to be in there fighting. More than anyone else, this failure is on their heads.

As for when Kiel’s stolen credit? Some players (including myself) feel she’s stolen the credit for our actions in the second Southsun story arc. She also failed her job of head of security during the Dragon Bash festival, resulting in the death of one of the Council. She then somehow managed to get credit for the players and Marjory’s work in dealing with the Aetherblades after that, and wound up getting the seat left open by the very assassination that she failed to stop.

Palador.2170:

Nah. He would have laughed. Gloated for a moment or two. And then, he would have gotten to work and found a way to sell them what they wanted and make a profit out of it.

Note the first thing he asks afterwards is if Kiel is dead. If she had asked, he would have said no. That’s the first thing he also said about being told to supply the lionguard “Ha, what if I say no and just leave you all hanging?”

I would also point out that Magnus is the head of the Lionguard, and Kiel works under him. It’s their JOB to be in there fighting. More than anyone else, this failure is on their heads.

Nope, the council stonewalled the push for more defenses, it’s on their heads. Still, Evon would have a better image if he was publicly helping the lionguard with supplies
and working to help get people out of the city, which he isn’t.

As for when Kiel’s stolen credit? Some players (including myself) feel she’s stolen the credit for our actions in the second Southsun story arc. She also failed her job of head of security during the Dragon Bash festival, resulting in the death of one of the Council. She then somehow managed to get credit for the players and Marjory’s work in dealing with the Aetherblades after that, and wound up getting the seat left open by the very assassination that she failed to stop.

Unsure on first, as for second, it as an Ambush in a way nobody expected.

She got the man to medics and safety ASAP, and he died later as I recall. She did her job as well as she could. At that time Marjory was investigating the deaths and the player was helping her, and both were keeping on the low notice.

Never did the Aetherblade mini-dungeon so I can’t truly comment on that.

Either way, Evon would have stronger selling points if he had actually TRIED instead of sitting there kittening. What do Charr do when confronted by a leader who is doing stupid kitten? They stand up and (sometimes) end up killing that person. They don’t bow down to an idiotic person directly above them. They most certainly don’t go “Well, that person beat me, so I’m just going to sit here suspecting an impending attack but do absolutely nothing to prepare myself or anybody else for it.”

Kalavier.1097:

What do Charr do when confronted by a leader who is doing stupid kitten? They stand up and (sometimes) end up killing that person. They don’t bow down to an idiotic person directly above them. They most certainly don’t go “Well, that person beat me, so I’m just going to sit here suspecting an impending attack but do absolutely nothing to prepare myself or anybody else for it.”

Unfortunately, other than by the Charr, if he did what Charr do he’d have been look down on even more, and probably arrested because he would have just broken Kiel in half and possibly eaten her. At the same time, that’s a sub section of Charr. Blood legion will just kill them, Iron and Ash won’t necessarily.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Kalavier.1097:

What do Charr do when confronted by a leader who is doing stupid kitten? They stand up and (sometimes) end up killing that person. They don’t bow down to an idiotic person directly above them. They most certainly don’t go “Well, that person beat me, so I’m just going to sit here suspecting an impending attack but do absolutely nothing to prepare myself or anybody else for it.”

Unfortunately, other than by the Charr, if he did what Charr do he’d have been look down on even more, and probably arrested because he would have just broken Kiel in half and possibly eaten her. At the same time, that’s a sub section of Charr. Blood legion will just kill them, Iron and Ash won’t necessarily.

You must’ve missed the point that Charr don’t eat Sentient races. They just make that joke to SCARE people.

And what I meant was more of a “He’d stand up, he shout and make it public knowledge, he’d work to make sure the city had good defenses. Not pace back and forth kittening about Kiel and doing nothing. And then after the attack, doing nothing but kittening more at Kiel.”

Never send a human to do a job meant for a charr…

You guys ever went to Vigil Keep and listened to how the Lion Guards are ordering Evon? He’s a wuss, he would have packed up and left long time ago if the Lion Guards did not commission him as their major supplier.

Kalavier.1097:

And what I meant was more of a “He’d stand up, he shout and make it public knowledge, he’d work to make sure the city had good defenses. Not pace back and forth kittening about Kiel and doing nothing. And then after the attack, doing nothing but kittening more at Kiel.”

You’re right. Maybe he should have gone out into the city, talked to some of the rough and tumble adventurers of Tyria, and told them that Lion’s Arch was going to come under attack. You know, warn them so they’re ready for it.

Oh, wait…

Kalavier.1097:

Palador.2170:

Nah. He would have laughed. Gloated for a moment or two. And then, he would have gotten to work and found a way to sell them what they wanted and make a profit out of it.

Note the first thing he asks afterwards is if Kiel is dead. If she had asked, he would have said no. That’s the first thing he also said about being told to supply the lionguard “Ha, what if I say no and just leave you all hanging?”

He doesn’t like her. Given their past, I can’t argue with that.

The second part, about leaving them hanging, is him seeing if he has any room to force some profit out of this or if it’s straight-up robbery.

It was the latter, by the way.

Mind you, I’m not saying Evon is doing the right thing here. Or that I’d do the same in his shoes. I just don’t think I can call him a black-hearted villain for how he’s acting. I can honestly see why he’s acted this way, and I can kind of sympathize with him. I also realize I’m being rough on Kiel. But she’s the one in the position that’s supposed to be dealing with these things, and Evon isn’t. She wanted to be there, so she needs to deal with it. Not the guy she beat out for the spot, she herself has to.

If the rest of the Council has left Magnus and her high and dry (as I suspect they have), then I can hardly blame Kiel for dragging in whoever she has to in order to save lives. There should just be some retribution for it in the end.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

You guys ever went to Vigil Keep and listened to how the Lion Guards are ordering Evon? He’s a wuss, he would have packed up and left long time ago if the Lion Guards did not commission him as their major supplier.

No, Kiel is forcing Evon to provide equipment for the Lionguard, under the threat of execution. But worry not. The hero always come out on top, even when an evil human seems to have the upper hand.

Palador.2170:

Kalavier.1097:

And what I meant was more of a “He’d stand up, he shout and make it public knowledge, he’d work to make sure the city had good defenses. Not pace back and forth kittening about Kiel and doing nothing. And then after the attack, doing nothing but kittening more at Kiel.”

You’re right. Maybe he should have gone out into the city, talked to some of the rough and tumble adventurers of Tyria, and told them that Lion’s Arch was going to come under attack. You know, warn them so they’re ready for it.

Oh, wait…

Oh wait what? You haven’t made your point insofar as I can tell.

bobomb.5209:

Oh wait what? You haven’t made your point insofar as I can tell.

He DID wander around Lion’s Arch and tell anyone that talked to him that Scarlet was going to attack. How many adventurers do you think he told?

And he couldn’t just shout it from the rooftops. Going to a public area and shouting that someone’s coming to kill you all is generally going to end poorly.

He couldn’t bring in an army. He couldn’t get the people in charge to listen. So, he told the adventurers, the very ones charging in right now to save who they can, that the attack was coming. It was only the requirements of plot advancement that kept us from being there ready for her when she arrived.

Lion’s Arch is burning, but who cares when there’s a six-month old election to argue over.

Uruz Six.6594:

Lion’s Arch is burning, but who cares when there’s a six-month old election to argue over.

I’m with you 100% on this. I’ve still got 100 plus vote for Evon buttons to run through.

Riot Inducer.8964:

Kiel was stonewalled by the rest of the council, no AA defenses ever got built. If Evon was on the council it would have been the same outcome.

If you want to believe in true living world no it wouldn’t. But then scarlet would probably attack by sea then with subs.

Palador.2170:

She’s forcing him to help. Note that at NO point did she ever try… you know… ASKING him to help.

Pretty much proves she’s a better politician than you thought. No point in the carrot with that one.

blame the rest of the council.

I don’t call Evon a villian. He’s shady, but not evil. However, he is HARDLY the paragon people seem to be making him (and Kiel is hardly the evil human likewise). People acting as if Evon would’ve done such a better job are fooling themselves. He’d deal with the exact same stonewalling Kiel did.

I’m pretty sure you wouldn’t be allowed to just buy and build air defenses on your own after all, you’d need planning permission from the Captains Council, or you’re likely to be arrested.

Imagine if you just bought an AA gun and decided to set it up in the centre of your local town, I’m pretty sure you’d get arrested.

So expecting Evon to just do something on his own without the Councils permission is unrealistic.

Fairly sure you could get a bunch of your charr and Asura buddies to park their wagons around town. Wagons covered but having AA guns on them.

Aka, basically like the engineer ability to set up a mortar. Though still, yeah, either way it’s stonewalled by politics.

She should have just set up her giant Kiel hologram in the centre of town again. I’m sure it would have made Scarlet think twice before attacking and those eyes…<shudder>

Lol, for those who say Evon is such a great guy who would have defended LA way bettter.

http://i.imgur.com/X5Eer6h.jpg

Literally ditches citizens and a captain in the council PURELY to safeguard his merchandise.

Kalavier.1097:

Lol, for those who say Evon is such a great guy who would have defended LA way bettter.

http://i.imgur.com/X5Eer6h.jpg

Literally ditches citizens and a captain in the council PURELY to safeguard his merchandise.

I don’t think he was the one that actually shut it down.

Shud asks how he did it, and I can’t see where it would gain him anything to do it. It does endanger him in the long run if he does it and someone survives to tell of it, though.

Evon’s not an idiot. He wouldn’t do it just for the lulz. There’s a few others with reasons to shut down the gates, though. The timing of it may or may not be just luck.