Guild Wars 2

The varied alliance members are not stupid, they are all intelligent and barring the aetherblades they are xenophobes too. So why are they still following her when they are being massacred and used as fodder for a goal that is obviously not theirs.

power twists people or plants or krait or whatever

Well, at first they were being conned. Then we came in there all hero-time, broke all their toys, foiled all their plans and killed their prophet. Now instead of following Scarlet, I’m pretty sure they just hate our guts more than they hate hers.

They’re also more powerful now than they ever were. They’re part of an army that has far greater capability than they ever had as their own individual factions. They can’t ignore that fact.

And if Scarlet is really that bat kitten crazy, would you be the one to raise your hand and say, “I don’t think I want to play anymore.”

Ruin.1927:

They’re also more powerful now than they ever were. They’re part of an army that has far greater capability than they ever had as their own individual factions. They can’t ignore that fact.

And if Scarlet is really that bat kitten crazy, would you be the one to raise your hand and say, “I don’t think I want to play anymore.”

Um, isn’t that what WE’VE been saying the entire time?

Not to mention they have been invading Tyria zones for months now and succeeding quiet often.

I don’t think their morale has been hit honestly.

Even the Nightmare Tower was a test to improve the toxin. She can still use whatever she held over their heads to keep them motivated. Dredge still need more magic. Flame Legion still need more tech. Krait still want an Obelisk to pray to their Prophets. God knows what the Nightmare Court wants.

The nightmare court wants to make people cry, or something…

Ruin.1927:

They’re also more powerful now than they ever were. They’re part of an army that has far greater capability than they ever had as their own individual factions. They can’t ignore that fact.

And if Scarlet is really that bat kitten crazy, would you be the one to raise your hand and say, “I don’t think I want to play anymore.”

considering how the Aetherblades literally have been shown to say “We are more scared of her then we are of you. She’ll slaughter us for messing up.”…

Because Anet loves her so much she’s a lore vortex. Bending everything to fit her.

Pretty simple, Scarlet was able to convince them and by showing again and again how she’s the only one able to match the other superior races/factions alongside the heroes of Tyria, they have no choice but to follow her if they wish to gain anything.

She may not have won any battles, but with all her advancement in technology and what she’s able to provide for these races, it looks like Scarlet is leaning towards winning the war, which means a lot more than any battle.

I bet this last attack on Lion’s Arch will prove if Scarlet is still capable of leading them and if they still wanna follow her. I think it’s clear that the ones in the alliances wants one thing in common: to become more powerful and bash the living hell out of the races/factions and heroes that have done it to them.

Sweet payback.

DarksunG.9537:

Because Anet loves her so much she’s a lore vortex. Bending everything to fit her.

And some of the players hate her so much they just have to twist the facts and lore to support their hatred.

I’ve seen it happen here in the few times I’ve looked.

Tyragon.2496:

Pretty simple, Scarlet was able to convince them and by showing again and again how she’s the only one able to match the other superior races/factions alongside the heroes of Tyria, they have no choice but to follow her if they wish to gain anything.

She may not have won any battles, but with all her advancement in technology and what she’s able to provide for these races, it looks like Scarlet is leaning towards winning the war, which means a lot more than any battle.

I bet this last attack on Lion’s Arch will prove if Scarlet is still capable of leading them and if they still wanna follow her. I think it’s clear that the ones in the alliances wants one thing in common: to become more powerful and bash the living hell out of the races/factions and heroes that have done it to them.

Sweet payback.

And the ones still following her are the ones who bought into her offers the most. I’d wager the big bulk of Molten alliance and Toxic alliance shattered, leaving the ones still with Scarlet.

A sizable number for sure, but not as huge as it was before.

Kalavier.1097:

Ruin.1927:

They’re also more powerful now than they ever were. They’re part of an army that has far greater capability than they ever had as their own individual factions. They can’t ignore that fact.

And if Scarlet is really that bat kitten crazy, would you be the one to raise your hand and say, “I don’t think I want to play anymore.”

considering how the Aetherblades literally have been shown to say “We are more scared of her then we are of you. She’ll slaughter us for messing up.”…

Yes, but we’re slaughtering them for following her.

Kalavier.1097:

Ruin.1927:

They’re also more powerful now than they ever were. They’re part of an army that has far greater capability than they ever had as their own individual factions. They can’t ignore that fact.

And if Scarlet is really that bat kitten crazy, would you be the one to raise your hand and say, “I don’t think I want to play anymore.”

considering how the Aetherblades literally have been shown to say “We are more scared of her then we are of you. She’ll slaughter us for messing up.”…

Because a group consisting of pirates obviously can’t just disband and go their own directions. Those are people that rob the wealthy but weakly defended targets. Instead of constantly sacrificing their own lives for no gain to themselves, they should’ve already bolted and/or squealed to authorities in exchange for pardon and reward.
Of other groups…

Dredge have absolutely no reason to follow her. There are no dwarves there, and nothing to be gained. And they were already noticing this at the end of Flame and Frost.

Inquest… they might indeed possibly be backing this enterprise for some reasons of their on (research on dragon energy…). On the other hand, they offer her too much, without having any control over her actions. They should also, as a group be smart enough to understand that they are manipulated and used (even if Scarlet is a supergenius).

Nightmare court, we have been told, consider Scarlet to be completely insane – too insane even for their tastes. We never have heard why they decided to cast their lot with her. Though a possible Mordemoth connection could be a reason there.

Flame legion also has no reason to allocate too much charr resources into this debacle. It doesn’t move them even one bit closer to their goal of regaining leadership over the other legions. They might have been desperate enough to try (for the third time in history) to find a power that would serve as Charr gods, but even then them quietly following Scarlet is just not believable. I’d rather expect them to try to cut out the middleman and contact the Power themselves. They’d never have been satisfied with being lesser minions.

And Krait up to that point were never interested in negotiations of any kind. Again, Scarlet seems to be the first ever non-slave they decided to bargain with. Instead of starting the “bargaining” with a enslavement attempt.

And watchworks, are not a dependable army – since a command over them can be overridden by someone else (As Scarlet herself already demonstrated). There’s also a limited number of them – those that were manufactured for Divinity’s Reach, minus the ones that were already destroyed.

So, basically no. Scarlet is apparently supported by a number of groups that really have no reason to even be there. Which pretty much fits the general theme of the story.
Sense? Who needs that?

Nightmare court and inquest are likely just a splinter faction. Same for the rest. Actually, I think its EXPLICITLY said the Nightmare court forces with her are a splinter faction.

Dredge and Flame legion were offered something they wanted. Some obviously followed her. It is an uneasy alliance and the ones remaining are likely the craziest ones, with the rest disbanding as it was hinted to.

Krait, she dangled obelisk shards over their heads. The ones with her are following purely for that reason.

Watchworks used similar parts as the steam creatures. A group which nobody has had the time/been able to figure out. Scarlet highjacked the watchworks because of this loophole.

Inquest, who says it’s the entire group? Who says it’s not just some splinter cell of them which saw this as a neat experiment and decided to follow through on it?

Dredge were given the chance to gain new power, which would force them higher up the chain. They knew the flame legion were oppressors, they planned to take the gear and kill the charr off as I recall. Their leadership involved thought the tech/magic gains were great enough it was worth the risk. Opposite for the Flame Legion. They planned to keep the tech for themselves, but enslave the dredge when they had a chance. But likewise, the advances in power tempted them in.

Aetherblades (the sky pirates/pirates part)? who knows. We do know for a FACT they are terrified of Scarlet to the point of being afraid of her horribly killing them. Mai Trin (as part of Scarlet’s plan) was going to get the captain’s council seat. Who is to say that bit alone (or them getting control of LA when all is done) isn’t the lure to get them to work with her?

In the end, she’s supported by groups all because she offered them something they want. And not just “Oh, I kinda want that” but something they REALLY, REALLY want. That’s why the groups remaining (for molten alliance/toxic alliance) are still there. The bulk may have dispersed and gone back to normal, but there is still a chunk clinging to those promises.

anquish?

DarksunG.9537:

Because Anet loves her so much she’s a lore vortex. Bending everything to fit her.

This is the real reason. You can actually apply it to the Living Story cast (the ones that were replaced with Priory members two weeks after a massive weapon was built a short walk from their HQ, the ones that figure out the attack on Lion’s Arch two weeks in advance while the Captain’s Council are playing “pass the idiot ball”).

Here’s the thing, Scarlet has a goal, but it’s not the goal that forged these alliances. Why didn’t these alliances say “sure we have power, but we aren’t doing our own thing – we are doing Scarlet’s thing”. The Nightmare Court are like a norn, doing evil is like chasing a legend – you can do it anywhere and it makes sense. The krait aren’t getting closer to their prophets in Lion’s Arch, the Flame Legion aren’t subduing the Black Citadel in Lion’s Arch, the Aetherblades are apparently made up of pirates with Inquest technology, so they are ironically going backwards if you assume they were welcome in Lion’s Arch in the past (they still won’t control it).

Ruin.1927:

They’re also more powerful now than they ever were. They’re part of an army that has far greater capability than they ever had as their own individual factions. They can’t ignore that fact.

If my goal is to trek across Antarctica and I join the Navy I become part of an organisation that has far more power than I do individually. That doesn’t mean I’m any closer to accomplishing my goal – the Navy isn’t going to let me do what I want, I work for them, I do what they want. The individual factions working for Scarlet aren’t achieving much out of all this.

This question has been bothering me for a while now. I seem to recall the finale of Flame and Frost having dialogue in which both Flame Legion and Dredge NPCs expressed regret with regards to joining her and that they now realized that they had been tricked and taken advantage of.

So yeah, I’m not sure why the Molten Alliance is still even a thing. As for the aetherblades, the only motivation we’ve been given is that “they like living” according to Scarlet, implying that she’ll kill them if they don’t follow her. I’m not sure why the krait from the Toxic Alliance have any reason to stick around after the tower plot failed and they didn’t get their prophets, and I’m still not clear on how the Nightmare Court got involved in the first place.

If we take the current story arc at it’s word, Scarlet doesn’t give a darn about any of the alliances. She only set up the alliances to get what she wanted, the probes, the poison, the airships. The people in the alliances are meaningless to her, so why are they still working for her?

the nightmare court’s sole purpose is to cause torment.. they don’t even care how or where, they will literally kick puppies to do so.. i’m not making that up, i’ts in game

Cliff.8679:

This question has been bothering me for a while now. I seem to recall the finale of Flame and Frost having dialogue in which both Flame Legion and Dredge NPCs expressed regret with regards to joining her and that they now realized that they had been tricked and taken advantage of.

So yeah, I’m not sure why the Molten Alliance is still even a thing. As for the aetherblades, the only motivation we’ve been given is that “they like living” according to Scarlet, implying that she’ll kill them if they don’t follow her. I’m not sure why the krait from the Toxic Alliance have any reason to stick around after the tower plot failed and they didn’t get their prophets, and I’m still not clear on how the Nightmare Court got involved in the first place.

A: Some of the Molten Alliance obviously remained intact and with Scarlet. As I said, the bulk probably shattered and split up, but a decent number remained intact/escaped with Scarlet.
B: She is still dangling the obelisk shards over their heads probably. Or more at least.
C: Nightmare court in Toxic Alliance are explicitly a splinter faction that sided with Scarlet.

Quick lore point – the Flame Legion have already had three attempts at gods for the charr that we know of – titans, destroyers, and Baelfire. If that’s what they’re hoping to get out of the alliance, that would be the fourth.

Cliff.8679:

As for the aetherblades, the only motivation we’ve been given is that “they like living” according to Scarlet, implying that she’ll kill them if they don’t follow her.

That’s the common interpretation, but is it what’s actually going on? Sure, Scarlet shows a marked disregard for the welfare of her minions, but they could be working for her despite that rather than [/i]because[/i] of it. What if Scarlet has revealed a threat that she believes she’s working against to them, and they’re working for Scarlet because, however callous she may be, it still gives better odds than if the cataclysm she claims to be working to prevent happens?

Note that this does not, in any way, mean that Scarlet is actually working for good, any more than the mursaat. It just means that the Aetherblades and others working for Scarlet because “they like living” might be doing so because they believe Scarlet will protect them from some other threat, not because Scarlet will kill them if they don’t.

Another thing worth noting is that the alliances are not two different factions working together, they are several factions working together. The story has to recognise that krait, Flame Legion, dredge, pirates, Inquest and Nightmare Courtiers are all working together. This is something that was done much better with the Pact – so much of that story focuses on the three orders are different from each other and how much they clash with each other. Order of Whispers can’t be trusted because they are sneaky backstabbers. Priory spend too much time in their books and not enough time acting with boots on the ground. Vigil are brutes who act and don’t think, lacking the subtlety to intelligently take on the dragons. Like the Living Story recognises with Scarlet’s Alliances, the Personal Story recognises that these individual orders all compliment each other well. With their combined resources, tactics and efforts they create a formidable organisation. Despite all this, getting all three to come together was no small task – it took a huge threat for them to put aside their differences and the story worked very hard to explore the formation of the Pact.

Even after all that, the Pact has one thing going for it that none of Scarlet’s alliances do – before joining together as an alliance the three Orders had a lot in common. They are all made up of the same races. There are no racial divides between the orders, they already mesh on a racial level. Unlike dredge and Flame Legion (charr) forming an alliance, the Pact never has to overcome racial boundaries. The Personal Story demonstrates how powerful these racial boundaries are but the Living Story stubbornly refuses to pay respect this and instead causally relies on “they get better technology” which wasn’t enough to unite the Pact, but it’s enough to unite carefully defined villainous factions. The other big thing that the three Orders have in common that none of Scarlet’s alliances do is they all share a common goal – to deal with the threat of an Elder Dragon. Each of the factions in Scarlet’s army are very different from each other, they want different things and working together doesn’t believably achieve this for them.

Maybe she just have about a dozen of them each but she cloned them with her vast intelligence. Seeing as it is possible to make holograms and hallucinations real, it is not too far a stretch.

Kalavier.1097:

Cliff.8679:

This question has been bothering me for a while now. I seem to recall the finale of Flame and Frost having dialogue in which both Flame Legion and Dredge NPCs expressed regret with regards to joining her and that they now realized that they had been tricked and taken advantage of.

So yeah, I’m not sure why the Molten Alliance is still even a thing. As for the aetherblades, the only motivation we’ve been given is that “they like living” according to Scarlet, implying that she’ll kill them if they don’t follow her. I’m not sure why the krait from the Toxic Alliance have any reason to stick around after the tower plot failed and they didn’t get their prophets, and I’m still not clear on how the Nightmare Court got involved in the first place.

A: Some of the Molten Alliance obviously remained intact and with Scarlet. As I said, the bulk probably shattered and split up, but a decent number remained intact/escaped with Scarlet.
B: She is still dangling the obelisk shards over their heads probably. Or more at least.
C: Nightmare court in Toxic Alliance are explicitly a splinter faction that sided with Scarlet.

Yeah, but all of those are pretty flimsy. We haven’t been told why a splinter faction of Nightmare Court sided with her. The krait still hanging around after the tower got decimated seems incredibly farfetched, and you would think their faith in her would be effectively zero after their spectacular defeat. As for the Molten Alliance, their motivation was to defeat the charr and the norn. That’s not even on the table anymore, so why would they stick around with Scarlet? Especially after the majority of them realized they’d been manipulated for her gain?

None of it really adds up, at least on the surface, and it’s one of the many reasons season one’s story has been a bitter pill to swallow.

draxynnic.3719:

Quick lore point – the Flame Legion have already had three attempts at gods for the charr that we know of – titans, destroyers, and Baelfire. If that’s what they’re hoping to get out of the alliance, that would be the fourth.

Cliff.8679:

As for the aetherblades, the only motivation we’ve been given is that “they like living” according to Scarlet, implying that she’ll kill them if they don’t follow her.

That’s the common interpretation, but is it what’s actually going on? Sure, Scarlet shows a marked disregard for the welfare of her minions, but they could be working for her despite that rather than [/i]because[/i] of it. What if Scarlet has revealed a threat that she believes she’s working against to them, and they’re working for Scarlet because, however callous she may be, it still gives better odds than if the cataclysm she claims to be working to prevent happens?

Note that this does not, in any way, mean that Scarlet is actually working for good, any more than the mursaat. It just means that the Aetherblades and others working for Scarlet because “they like living” might be doing so because they believe Scarlet will protect them from some other threat, not because Scarlet will kill them if they don’t.

It’s possible, but it still seems pretty silly that they would side with her over the Pact, who’ve already proven they can take down an Elder Dragon and can do so without threat of slaughtering their subordinates. It also doesn’t help that it’s hard to believe the aetherblades couldn’t just gang up on her and take her out. She relies entirely on manipulating various alliances to work for her. Her being so intimidating as to cow an entire armada of sky pirates into loyalty under threat of death is a difficult sell.

Cliff.8679:

Her being so intimidating as to cow an entire armada of sky pirates into loyalty under threat of death is a difficult sell.

That’s without even going into how there’s an entire armada of pirates under her in the first place. One would think someone would have noticed such a massive recuitment attempt before that alliance even got created.

Cliff.8679:

draxynnic.3719:

Quick lore point – the Flame Legion have already had three attempts at gods for the charr that we know of – titans, destroyers, and Baelfire. If that’s what they’re hoping to get out of the alliance, that would be the fourth.

Cliff.8679:

As for the aetherblades, the only motivation we’ve been given is that “they like living” according to Scarlet, implying that she’ll kill them if they don’t follow her.

That’s the common interpretation, but is it what’s actually going on? Sure, Scarlet shows a marked disregard for the welfare of her minions, but they could be working for her despite that rather than [/i]because[/i] of it. What if Scarlet has revealed a threat that she believes she’s working against to them, and they’re working for Scarlet because, however callous she may be, it still gives better odds than if the cataclysm she claims to be working to prevent happens?

Note that this does not, in any way, mean that Scarlet is actually working for good, any more than the mursaat. It just means that the Aetherblades and others working for Scarlet because “they like living” might be doing so because they believe Scarlet will protect them from some other threat, not because Scarlet will kill them if they don’t.

It’s possible, but it still seems pretty silly that they would side with her over the Pact, who’ve already proven they can take down an Elder Dragon and can do so without threat of slaughtering their subordinates. It also doesn’t help that it’s hard to believe the aetherblades couldn’t just gang up on her and take her out. She relies entirely on manipulating various alliances to work for her. Her being so intimidating as to cow an entire armada of sky pirates into loyalty under threat of death is a difficult sell.

Unless what they want seems to mesh into her plans. Besides, watchworks/twisted watchworks. In a more ‘realistic’ viewpoint, they’d be hard to kill being almost purely metal. A Nightmare would just go through a crowd easily (Like a siege golem, but more stretched out and thinner lol). These are all active pirates, I doubt they’d just “Run to authorities!”. It’s like Jack Sparrow running up to the British army (I think) to report he’s working for a crazy boss! He’ll get arrested and tried, and maybe that other person will go after them.

Also the fact she got the group of inquest involved which actually got their airships off the ground. Who is to say that she didn’t tell them a “Oh, you betray me? I’ll just yank the bits causing your ships to work!” And maybe she actually did. Remember that Aetherblade airship which crashed in the Sanctum update? They gave no reason, just “It crashed after plundering LA and trying to get away.” What if they were trying to get a bunch of gold and just leave (Ditching Scarlet), so she sabotaged their ship and caused it to crash and kill the crew?

Suddenly to the rest “You try to betray/ditch me, I’ll break your ship.”

edit: LA admits to having pirates come in and out. There are large pirate groups outside of LA. Whose to say she walked up and down LA recruiting instead of finding individual ships out on the sea and getting them to her cause? And until the Aetherblades appeared they may have acted normal, giving no indication of a changed loyalty. Or these guys held loyalty to Mai Trin, and Scarlet recruited her. So Mai Trin’s goons/minions followed along.

Kalavier.1097:

These are all active pirates, I doubt they’d just “Run to authorities!”. It’s like Jack Sparrow running up to the British army (I think) to report he’s working for a crazy boss! He’ll get arrested and tried, and maybe that other person will go after them.

No, it’s like Jack Sparrow running off to Shipwreck City (http://pirates.wikia.com/wiki/Shipwreck_City) and talking to the Brethren Court (http://pirates.wikia.com/wiki/Brethren_Court). Lion’s Arch is supposed to be a pirate city, it’s just characters like Kiel don’t really sell the pirate theme that well so it’s easy to forget.

Shiren.9532:

Kalavier.1097:

These are all active pirates, I doubt they’d just “Run to authorities!”. It’s like Jack Sparrow running up to the British army (I think) to report he’s working for a crazy boss! He’ll get arrested and tried, and maybe that other person will go after them.

No, it’s like Jack Sparrow running off to Shipwreck City (http://pirates.wikia.com/wiki/Shipwreck_City) and talking to the Brethren Court (http://pirates.wikia.com/wiki/Brethren_Court). Lion’s Arch is supposed to be a pirate city, it’s just characters like Kiel don’t really sell the pirate theme that well so it’s easy to forget.

Lion’s arch STARTED as a pirate city. It easily and openly evolved into something much different. Hence why the lionguard deal with some PIRATES. (In one of the docks you see them come back with stuff that was stolen from passengers by pirates IIRC).

The bulk of the people there aren’t pirates. Infact, besides the one area/undermarket, you hardly see any pirates in the city at all. A handful here or there, but overall, not many.

While Kiel may joke (one of her lines is about given the standard greeting, but you don’t need a perforated spleen), LA has changed. If it was a “CITY OF PIRATES” why would they field the Lionguard over most of Tyria running havens for traders and travelers?

Why did Scarlet’s allies ever follow her in the first place? Never been a good answer for that either. Dredge and flame legion want to ally (which is somewhat plausible)? Okay….why do they need Scarlet sacrificing them by the thousands to make that happen? Pirates and Inquest want to work together (again, totally plausible), what’s ever stopped the Inquest from doing something like this on its own? It’s not like evil little asura aren’t self-motivated to cause trouble with anything they can find. Krait allying with anything never made sense in the first place and just waters them down from “genuinely creepy and threatening” to “cartoon minion” in terms of threat level. Nightmare Court working with Scarlet is the only one that makes sense since they both have an obsession with proving the Pale Tree wrong.

You can’t make the continuation of a story make sense when the story never made sense in the first place. None of these alliances needed Scarlet to happen. She’s just the lore eating plot vortex fanfiction that we’re stuck with until Anet decides to stop with this nonsense.

SlothBear.9846:

Why did Scarlet’s allies ever follow her in the first place? Never been a good answer for that either. Dredge and flame legion want to ally (which is somewhat plausible)? Okay….why do they need Scarlet sacrificing them by the thousands to make that happen? Pirates and Inquest want to work together (again, totally plausible), what’s ever stopped the Inquest from doing something like this on its own? It’s not like evil little asura aren’t self-motivated to cause trouble with anything they can find. Krait allying with anything never made sense in the first place and just waters them down from “genuinely creepy and threatening” to “cartoon minion” in terms of threat level. Nightmare Court working with Scarlet is the only one that makes sense since they both have an obsession with proving the Pale Tree wrong.

You can’t make the continuation of a story make sense when the story never made sense in the first place. None of these alliances needed Scarlet to happen. She’s just the lore eating plot vortex fanfiction that we’re stuck with until Anet decides to stop with this nonsense.

I’m just curious if you’ve actually played all the Living Story content and searched out and done everything. If so, this wouldn’t be as much of a question. The newest update drives the point home again as to why they are all working together and for Scarlet.

Scarlet Briar: The moles get magic, Flame gets gear, and I get weaponry I need. Everybody wins…especially me.
Scarlet Briar: Lion’s Arch needs softening up first, so we infiltrate its halls of power and neuter its defenses from the inside.
Scarlet Briar: The theme is “humanity can withstand any test.” It’s like they’re begging me to prove them wrong. It’s laughable! (laugh) See?
Scarlet Briar: Air superiority wins wars. So build me a comparable fleet, or I’ll kill you all and replace you with holos.
Scarlet Briar: Once more, my esteemed snaky friend: you’re doing this for obelisk shards. You want direct access to your prophets, right? Then do as I say.
Kasmeer Meade: Scarlet deceived each of her allies into thinking they’d gain something from working for her. Hmm. She’d make a great minister.

Once they work for her, she then threatens to kill them if they don’t listen. It’s pretty straight forward.

I can’t understand why the Krait remain. The rest of the groups I can understand as they still can get what they came for. However, the Krait are different to me.

The Krait came with the understanding that Scarlet would bring them a prophet, a task at which she failed. It seems to me, they would turn on her at this point.

Delvoire.8930:

Once they work for her, she then threatens to kill them if they don’t listen. It’s pretty straight forward.

Yeahhhhno. I can’t buy that.

When the Molten Alliance was beaten, she kept them in line by threatening them?

Stop and think about WHO she was threatening.

Flame Legion? You think the Flame Legion rolled over and submitted to the demands of a female sylvari? Even if she threatened them with the Aetherblades, the Flame Legion wouldn’t bend to that. Plus, they had some new molten weapons already. We’ve all seen how willing they are to fight, even if it’s a losing battle. No way would they just give in to her demands.

Dredge? Do you honestly think they’d submit to being re-enslaved? Nope, wouldn’t happen. They’d die fighting it rather than be slaves to someone again. And the only forces she had to threaten them with were the Aetherblades, and they’re even less of a threat to the underground dwelling Dredge.

Scarlet made their prophet, in her own way. The Krait there were willing to fight for the monstrosity thinking it was what they had been promised. Probably given more time, they would have realized the depth of her trickery.

But we killed it. Fanatics don’t tend to forget those types of transgressions.

Delvoire.8930:

I’m just curious if you’ve actually played all the Living Story content and searched out and done everything. If so, this wouldn’t be as much of a question. The newest update drives the point home again as to why they are all working together and for Scarlet.

No, it doesn’t. It just underscores how primitive and heavyhanded the plot is.

Delvoire.8930:

Scarlet Briar: The moles get magic, Flame gets gear, and I get weaponry I need. Everybody wins…especially me.

Dredge get magic… from Flame Legion shamans. Flame leguion gets gear… from Dredge. How that suddenly translates to “everyone gives Scarlet what she wants, and die for the reasons that are completely her own and do not concern them” i have no idea.Nor do the devs, apparently

Scarlet Briar: Lion’s Arch needs softening up first, so we infiltrate its halls of power and neuter its defenses from the inside.

Softening up first for what? Remember, detection devices werre planted later. At the moment of first attack she didn’t actually need anything from LA yet. And it doesn’t explain Aetherblades at all.

Scarlet Briar: The theme is “humanity can withstand any test.” It’s like they’re begging me to prove them wrong. It’s laughable! (laugh) See?

…yeah, it makes sense. Because… plot reasons, i guess?

Scarlet Briar: Air superiority wins wars. So build me a comparable fleet, or I’ll kill you all and replace you with holos.

…yeah, to give her followers reason to work for her, she will threaten them. With (i guess) followers that do not have any reason to work for her – because individually she’s not that a threat. Logical…

Delvoire.8930:

Scarlet Briar: Once more, my esteemed snaky friend: you’re doing this for obelisk shards. You want direct access to your prophets, right? Then do as I say.

anyone else that would said that to the Krait would have been put in a cage and asked again. But not scarlet, oh no, she’s way too persuasive for that…
I’m not even going to ask where she got those shards…

Kasmeer Meade: Scarlet deceived each of her allies into thinking they’d gain something from working for her. Hmm. She’d make a great minister.

Except we don’t see that at all. We see allies that work (and die) for her without getting anything in return, and without possibly even hoping to get anything in return.

Delvoire.8930:

Once they work for her, she then threatens to kill them if they don’t listen. It’s pretty straight forward.

“once they work for her, she threatens them with the force she gets because they are working for her” again… circular logic is circular. Besides, straigtforward threatening should have gotten her killed long ago.

You may try to bend logic in order to find some explanations, but at the core it just doesn’t make sense.

Palador.2170:

Delvoire.8930:

Once they work for her, she then threatens to kill them if they don’t listen. It’s pretty straight forward.

Yeahhhhno. I can’t buy that.

When the Molten Alliance was beaten, she kept them in line by threatening them?

Stop and think about WHO she was threatening.

Flame Legion? You think the Flame Legion rolled over and submitted to the demands of a female sylvari? Even if she threatened them with the Aetherblades, the Flame Legion wouldn’t bend to that. Plus, they had some new molten weapons already. We’ve all seen how willing they are to fight, even if it’s a losing battle. No way would they just give in to her demands.

Dredge? Do you honestly think they’d submit to being re-enslaved? Nope, wouldn’t happen. They’d die fighting it rather than be slaves to someone again. And the only forces she had to threaten them with were the Aetherblades, and they’re even less of a threat to the underground dwelling Dredge.

Actually.. yeah they are scared of her and she does threaten them. Here, let me show you some facts regarding this.

From the Aetherblade Path of Twilight Arbor -

In Outlook of Woe
Aetherblade Swashbuckler: “I saw one of those holos that looked just like me. It was funny right up to the point it exploded.”
Veteran Aetherblade Grenadier: “This isn’t going to be as easy as we thought. Finally, foes worth killing.”
Aetherblade Thug: “I like these holos. They don’t eat or claim a share of the booty, and they take the enemy with them when they die.”
Aetherblade Thug: “Following Scarlet’s lead is dangerous, but it’s also profitable. Not to mention fun.”
Aetherblade Grenadier: “Clear the vegetation, build the ships, kill the intruders… There better be some serious coin at the end of this.”
Scarlet Briar Hologram: “Work. Work harder! You can’t convert a dire cavern of dread and misery into an arms factory by wishing for it.”
Scarlet Briar Hologram: “I love my holorgamatic pirates. All the punch of the flesh and blood variety, with none of the strange odors.”
Scarlet Briar Hologram: “I’m still registering intruders, Aetherblades. Finish them off. And keep everyone clear of those generators.”
Aetherblade Taskmaster: “Stick together! Scarlet will flay us with rusty blades if we break!”
Aetherblade Thug: “Hold fast. Whatever they do to us Scarlet will do worse if we lose.”

An excerpt from Twilight Preparations

“We’ve got trouble,” Spur said. “Scarlet trouble.”

“‘We?’” Sparki said. “Slick and I don’t have Scarlet trouble. We, my toothy friend, are reliable.”

“Reliable’s not good enough anymore. We need to be exceptional. Scarlet wants a fleet of airships and an army of holographic pirates to fight alongside the meat variety.”

“We know that,” Slick muttered. “It’s why we’re all here.”

“Though I can’t say why the Nightmare Court is,” Sparki added. “I’ll never comprehend how she got those poisonous peonies to let her have her way with this place.”

“Belay that talk,” Spur growled. “Scarlet’s got some sort of arrangement with the Court. They give her this space for her facility and she helps them…I don’t know, make people cry, or whatever it is they do.

“The important thing is we need more ships in the air. If we don’t triple our output, she’ll be back. And she won’t be tossing around insults and orders. She’ll be tossing around body parts from the crews who didn’t meet quota.”

Slick shrugged, clearly unconcerned. “Then crack your whip and get your axes spinning. We’re holding up our end. It’s your flunkies that are the problem.”

The Aetherblades are clearly being threatened and bullied by Scarlet. It would stand to assume she does the same with the other alliances she has formed.

Delvoire.8930:

The Aetherblades are clearly being threatened and bullied by Scarlet. It would stand to assume she does the same with the other alliances she has formed.

That doesn’t change the fact that some of them (Flame Legion and Dredge) wouldn’t give in to those threats. ESPECIALLY the Dredge, given that she’s basically making them slaves if they’re working under threat. The whole point of the Dredge is that they’ve been slaves before, and they have no intention of ever being slaves again. They’ll die fighting for their freedom, and do so in some areas of the game.

Astralporing.1957:

You may try to bend logic in order to find some explanations, but at the core it just doesn’t make sense.

See, I can also say that you are bending logic to say nothing makes sense. You’re obviously a person who doesn’t agree with the storyline nor like it. That’s fine. It’s how you feel about it. I, on the other hand, do not feel this way.

I’ve played this all from the start and liked the slow build of the story. The plot points have been there. They may not all have been in the game, but they’ve been there.

We’ve only been shown small interaction between the alliances and Scarlet herself. Who knows what she’s done to influence them or keep their allegiance. For all we know she’s been publicly executing those who oppose her to continue her control.

Also as a side note, anyone who thinks we’ve killed thousands upon thousands of her minions is wrong. This is a video game. The Developers can’t say that Scarlet has 10,000 soldiers in her army and once those are gone the whole Living Story comes to an end.

If anyone is looking at it like we are just destroying her army and she should be depleted of troops.. well then you have to say the same thing to every monster/enemy/creature in the game. How many Tequatl’s are there? How many Fire Elementals? How many Centaurs can their be? Surely we’ve killed them all by now.

You can’t look at one area of the game and give it a certain standard and ignore all other parts of the game that are similar.

Delvoire.8930:

If anyone is looking at it like we are just destroying her army and she should be depleted of troops.. well then you have to say the same thing to every monster/enemy/creature in the game. How many Tequatl’s are there? How many Fire Elementals? How many Centaurs can their be? Surely we’ve killed them all by now.

You can’t look at one area of the game and give it a certain standard and ignore all other parts of the game that are similar.

WE don’t have to. The standards for the two areas are different because the Devs made them different.

You see, in the main world, the plot never really advances past the events you see. The centaurs still threaten Queensdale, the fire elemental is still a threat, and the Wardenlight Tree is still under threat. The world doesn’t really move past those events.

But the Living Story does. Those events have moved into the past, the plot has moved past them. They happened. They’re done. The repercussions of those events carry forward. If the plot says Scarlet’s army was defeated at the Marionette test, then it was defeated there. (The plot seems to assume you’ve won that fight, by the way.) Yes, they only happened once, and not dozens of times, but they happened.

Scarlet has been losing people left and right. It’s there, in the plot, and it needs to carry forward. That it doesn’t is just a huge plot hole and bad writing.

Palador.2170:

Delvoire.8930:

If anyone is looking at it like we are just destroying her army and she should be depleted of troops.. well then you have to say the same thing to every monster/enemy/creature in the game. How many Tequatl’s are there? How many Fire Elementals? How many Centaurs can their be? Surely we’ve killed them all by now.

You can’t look at one area of the game and give it a certain standard and ignore all other parts of the game that are similar.

WE don’t have to. The standards for the two areas are different because the Devs made them different.

You see, in the main world, the plot never really advances past the events you see. The centaurs still threaten Queensdale, the fire elemental is still a threat, and the Wardenlight Tree is still under threat. The world doesn’t really move past those events.

But the Living Story does. Those events have moved into the past, the plot has moved past them. They happened. They’re done. The repercussions of those events carry forward. If the plot says Scarlet’s army was defeated at the Marionette test, then it was defeated there. (The plot seems to assume you’ve won that fight, by the way.) Yes, they only happened once, and not dozens of times, but they happened.

Scarlet has been losing people left and right. It’s there, in the plot, and it needs to carry forward. That it doesn’t is just a huge plot hole and bad writing.

I agree. She has been losing forces. I just don’t think it’s been to the extent that some have been posting about.

Delvoire.8930:

I agree. She has been losing forces. I just don’t think it’s been to the extent that some have been posting about.

Agreed, but that cuts both ways. She doesn’t have the endless forces to people these events over and over again. As far as the plot goes, they happened once. (Except for the invasions, I’d give them once per zone.)

People may be inflating the numbers, but that goes on both sides. Taking them down to correct levels, she’s still losing a huge part of her forces every time she tries something. She shouldn’t have much left.

I don’t even know how the hell does she keep getting more and more soldiers, robots, resources, weapons and all that crap with us don’t noticing where the f… she is getting them from (or where is she building them), while we keep destroying her armies time after time.
So yeah, unlimited army with unlimited resources and many kicks in the butt of the lore.

Hope they all die.

Aajolea.8132:

So why are they still following her?

The chance to loot LA.

lazarus.1639:

I don’t even know how the hell does she keep getting more and more soldiers, robots, resources, weapons and all that crap with us don’t noticing where the f… she is getting them from (or where is she building them), while we keep destroying her armies time after time.
So yeah, unlimited army with unlimited resources and many kicks in the butt of the lore.

Hope they all die.

You are trying to separate game play from lore. According to the lore, there is only 1 commander, yet when I go to fight the marionette they are tens of commanders, does that mean they are tens of commanders or it is just a gameplay thing.

Gameplay > lore.

Scarlet has unlimited resources just like they are millions of commander (PC) out there. Just like there are an unlimited amount of centaur, inquest etc.

silvermember.8941:

lazarus.1639:

I don’t even know how the hell does she keep getting more and more soldiers, robots, resources, weapons and all that crap with us don’t noticing where the f… she is getting them from (or where is she building them), while we keep destroying her armies time after time.
So yeah, unlimited army with unlimited resources and many kicks in the butt of the lore.

Hope they all die.

You are trying to separate game play from lore. According to the lore, there is only 1 commander, yet when I go to fight the marionette they are tens of commanders, does that mean they are tens of commanders or it is just a gameplay thing.

Gameplay > lore.

Scarlet has unlimited resources just like they are millions of commander (PC) out there. Just like there are an unlimited amount of centaur, inquest etc.

I still need a little piece of story-telling about where the hell does she get all her things and some hint trying to explain ‘’well, after so many failures, we are running out of food, water, toxins, molten pieces of crap…’‘.
Or maybe the Priory or the Order of Whispers appologizing for being dumb to not see her coming. Where the hell did she secretly built a giant robot?!
I can’t just be okay with this.

Delvoire.8930:

I’m just curious if you’ve actually played all the Living Story content and searched out and done everything. If so, this wouldn’t be as much of a question. The newest update drives the point home again as to why they are all working together and for Scarlet.

No it does not. It offers very lame explanations that don’t hold water at all.

Delvoire.8930:

Scarlet Briar: The moles get magic, Flame gets gear, and I get weaponry I need. Everybody wins…especially me.

Again, no reason the dredge and flame legion couldn’t just make this trade without her and not sacrifice themselves in huge numbers just to consistently fail at everything. Dredge and flame legion working together? Not a bad idea. Trying to shoe horn Scarlet into it? Awful.

Delvoire.8930:

Scarlet Briar: Once more, my esteemed snaky friend: you’re doing this for obelisk shards. You want direct access to your prophets, right? Then do as I say.

And anyone believes Scarlet has direct access to Krait prophets why exactly? Nobody who is not a krait has ever had this. No way an entire race that is so xenophobic they eat people on first encounter listens to this drivel let alone buys into it.

Delvoire.8930:

Once they work for her, she then threatens to kill them if they don’t listen. It’s pretty straight forward.

Working with Scarlet = Dying en masse when competent heroes quickly unravel her plans.

Not Working with Scarlet = She threatens to kill you? She’s less threatening than any of the high ups in the Flame Legion, Krait or Nightmare Court. There’s zero reason for these organizations based violence and pain to be afraid of fighting her.

So yeah, I’ve heard Anet’s lame excuses, they don’t hold water. It’s badly written drivel.

The same reason why the Joker can seemingly find an endless number of flunkies to follow him in DC comics.
Plain old writers caveat.
It makes no logical sense why Joker (or most other villains for that matter) can find people to work under him when it’s a fairly well known fact that those flunkies often end up dead, incarcerated or worse.

Another thought…
Lets say that these factions /do/ indeed manage to just say ‘Hell with this. I’m not following this crazy twig anymore…’
Where are they going to go?
I’d bet money that they can’t go back to their parent groups and say ‘Uh… hey guys! Uh… sorry for everything I did… No hard feelings. Right?’

In this case, they signed a Devils Contract. They are stuck in it and they know it…

SlothBear.9846:

Delvoire.8930:

I’m just curious if you’ve actually played all the Living Story content and searched out and done everything. If so, this wouldn’t be as much of a question. The newest update drives the point home again as to why they are all working together and for Scarlet.

No it does not. It offers very lame explanations that don’t hold water at all.

That’s your opinion. Others find them informative and helpful.

SlothBear.9846:

Delvoire.8930:

Scarlet Briar: The moles get magic, Flame gets gear, and I get weaponry I need. Everybody wins…especially me.

Again, no reason the dredge and flame legion couldn’t just make this trade without her and not sacrifice themselves in huge numbers just to consistently fail at everything. Dredge and flame legion working together? Not a bad idea. Trying to shoe horn Scarlet into it? Awful.

Huh? So because the Dredge and Flame Legion could make this alliance without Scarlet means it makes no sense that she could be the reason behind it? It wasn’t shoe horned in, it was planned from the beginning.

SlothBear.9846:

Delvoire.8930:

Scarlet Briar: Once more, my esteemed snaky friend: you’re doing this for obelisk shards. You want direct access to your prophets, right? Then do as I say.

And anyone believes Scarlet has direct access to Krait prophets why exactly? Nobody who is not a krait has ever had this. No way an entire race that is so xenophobic they eat people on first encounter listens to this drivel let alone buys into it.

I don’t think anyone thinks this but the Krait she promised it to. I also doubt it’s the entire race but more like the ones she has access to. Also, why wouldn’t they listen to a creature who is relatively new to the entire planet? I mean, Sylvari haven’t really been around long.

SlothBear.9846:

Delvoire.8930:

Once they work for her, she then threatens to kill them if they don’t listen. It’s pretty straight forward.

Working with Scarlet = Dying en masse when competent heroes quickly unravel her plans.

Not Working with Scarlet = She threatens to kill you? She’s less threatening than any of the high ups in the Flame Legion, Krait or Nightmare Court. There’s zero reason for these organizations based violence and pain to be afraid of fighting her.

So yeah, I’ve heard Anet’s lame excuses, they don’t hold water. It’s badly written drivel.

How do YOU know there is zero reason to be afraid of Scarlet? There obviously is a reason they are afraid of her. That is fact. Go look for it if you like.

It’s very apparent that you’re not happy with the story line or maybe even the game. If you have a better MMO that you’ve made yourself, let me know and I’ll try it out.

This isn’t a novel with every detail written out for you to see. It’s a video game storyline. Just sit back and enjoy it. It’s what I do.

I see a lot of posts saying “why couldn’t the molten alliance form without scarlet?”, well it’s as simple as this:

Two factions of two separate races each with its own goals, they need someone to broker deals between both factions to make the alliance work, which is where scarlet comes in. She’s a neutral party and acts similarly to Trahearne in the personal story, while she may not be a huge figure to both factions, they believe that they can use Scarlet to better their own gains from the alliance and gain an upper hand on the other. However they do not realize they are simply being manipulated by her for grander purposes.

In regards to why the factions are still following her, while shes not winning every small battle she’s getting what she needs to from each encounter and i believe that they see this, from where she started to where she is now its been a massive leap forward.

Scarlet has an armada of airships with powerful weaponry attached to them, Sky Pirates for aerial deployment, Charr & Dredge for ground deployment with powerful weaponry, Krait for aquatic deployment and the nightmare court for manipulation of the oppositions minds. Her watchwork constructions include the marionette and the obscured cannon in the sky.

If i were a member of any of these factions i would stay where i was because this crazy tree knows how to do terror right.

Delvoire.8930:

Delvoire.8930:

Scarlet Briar: The moles get magic, Flame gets gear, and I get weaponry I need. Everybody wins…especially me.

SlothBear.9846:

Again, no reason the dredge and flame legion couldn’t just make this trade without her and not sacrifice themselves in huge numbers just to consistently fail at everything. Dredge and flame legion working together? Not a bad idea. Trying to shoe horn Scarlet into it? Awful.

Huh? So because the Dredge and Flame Legion could make this alliance without Scarlet means it makes no sense that she could be the reason behind it?

No, she could have been behind it. It makes no sense however that they act as her flunkies when they don’t need her for anything. They already have their alliance, why would they follow Scarlet around for invasions, Marionette tests or LA attacks?
And scaring those two groups is not really believable. Flame legion would have long disbanded if they were the types to get intimidated, and Dredge are perfectly willing to die to protect themselves from slavery. Threatening them into obedience would be the easiest way to set them off and turn into enemies. And you really, really don’t want Dredge as enemies (remember, 250 years after they got freed, and they still try to hunt down any dwarf they hear about, and destroy anything connected with them)
Additionally, the dredge (after the events from Sorrow’s Embrace) are in really bad relations with Inquest, so they would not agree to be on the same side as Aetherblades.