Guild Wars 2

They’re detaching themselves from GW1 since they have commented that if people want GW1, they can go and play GW1, and GW2 is not and won’t be GW1 with revamped graphics. And that I can respect since they admit it.

But I can’t help but feeling that they know that the level of world building, writing and immersion was superior in the original game and they’re frustrated that so many people aren’t feeling their chosen approach on GW2 (read: Living story) compared to traditional expansion style.

You completely missed the point I was bringing up… I know they aren’t trying to make GW1 with revamped graphics. The issue I have is that there is very little left of the original game for continuity’s sake, and it seems that the game is no longer about the player on an individual level (the Pact is nowhere to be found during all of this, plus the player has become a complete unknown to Destiny’s Edge and the majority of the rest of Tyria).

All we are now is just another zergling in the massive player zergs that just overwhelm everything with large numbers. As I said, they should just change the game’s name and get it over with.

Traveller.7496:

GW2 is not and won’t be GW1 with revamped graphics.

It’s a shame, because a continuation of GW’s game type and style A) was what a lot of people expected, B ) was what a lot of people wanted, C) was what would have kept GW veterans happy in the sequel, and D) would have given GW2 a similar staying power (which I just don’t see in its current form).

Oh well…too late now. ANet made their decisions. I’ll just be very surprised if GW2 ever reaches the kind of dedicated fan base that GW has.

Vick.6805:

Traveller.7496:

GW2 is not and won’t be GW1 with revamped graphics.

It’s a shame, because a continuation of GW’s game type and style A) was what a lot of people expected, B ) was what a lot of people wanted, C) was what would have kept GW veterans happy in the sequel, and D) would have given GW2 a similar staying power (which I just don’t see in its current form).

Oh well…too late now. ANet made their decisions. I’ll just be very surprised if GW2 ever reaches the kind of dedicated fan base that GW has.

And what type of dedicated fan base does GW1 have?

Zypher.7609:

Vick.6805:

Traveller.7496:

GW2 is not and won’t be GW1 with revamped graphics.

It’s a shame, because a continuation of GW’s game type and style A) was what a lot of people expected, B ) was what a lot of people wanted, C) was what would have kept GW veterans happy in the sequel, and D) would have given GW2 a similar staying power (which I just don’t see in its current form).

Oh well…too late now. ANet made their decisions. I’ll just be very surprised if GW2 ever reaches the kind of dedicated fan base that GW has.

And what type of dedicated fan base does GW1 have?

The type where players revisit a game that is 9 years old, has no content updates, and yet is still somehow enticing players to leave GW2 and go back to it.

Vick.6805:

Zypher.7609:

Vick.6805:

Traveller.7496:

GW2 is not and won’t be GW1 with revamped graphics.

It’s a shame, because a continuation of GW’s game type and style A) was what a lot of people expected, B ) was what a lot of people wanted, C) was what would have kept GW veterans happy in the sequel, and D) would have given GW2 a similar staying power (which I just don’t see in its current form).

Oh well…too late now. ANet made their decisions. I’ll just be very surprised if GW2 ever reaches the kind of dedicated fan base that GW has.

And what type of dedicated fan base does GW1 have?

The type where players revisit a game that is 9 years old, has no content updates, and yet is still somehow enticing players to leave GW2 and go back to it.

And almost every single one of those people hop on GW1 for an hour, enjoy fleeting nostalgia, then hop back off.

GW2 has a dedicated fan base as well.

I ADORED GW1, but unless I want to fight AB or FA, I don’t bother going back anymore. GW2 is a far superior game (IMHO obviously), and I feel no need really to go back.

Besides, things change. Think any modern country today looks at all like it did 250 years ago? Same thing. The world changes, particularly when you have Elder Dragons trying to destroy it.

Frankly, I LOVED it when I found the remnants of Temple of the Ages… sunk under a swamp. I thought that was awesome!

“The world changes, particularly when you have Elder Dragons trying to destroy it”
What dragons?All I’ve seen is a mess of Living story about an insane tree hugger.This has plagued gw2 since the beginning.Guild Wars it ain’t.I enjoy it enough when I can keep away from the living story crap,but it does make it a very limited game.I have no idea why there is some “lore” attachment because the connection has gone.Perhaps it never really existed at all except to draw in guild wars players.

I love how OP talks about no mention of dragons in this story arc.

Oh sweet summer child..

They butchered the lore long ago… Not even the human gods were safe (and i’m not even talking about the ‘’the dragons are stronger BLABLABLA’’ part).
And now this.
Next time, they might remove the ruins of the Temple of the Ages, or maybe they will blow up the Wizard’s Tower. Even the Great Northern Wall might not survive this year.
And I tremble with fear at the thought of what they might do to Gwen’s and Thackeray’s tombs…

Stop destroying the old lore please.

lazarus.1639:

Even the Great Northern Wall might not survive this year.

Stop destroying the old lore please.

I hope you can look back at what you wrote and see the irony there.

What is the ‘lore’ of the Great Northern Wall? Well, it just so happens that in the original game, it was destroyed by the Searing. For you to complain now about the potential destruction of something that was already destroyed in the game you’re nostalgic for is more than a little silly.

If anything, this attack on Lion’s Arch is very much staying true to Guild Wars tradition. Things get destroyed. Everyone has fond memories of ‘pre-Searing’, the peaceful Ascalon that is lost once you reach a certain story step and that can then never be accessed again with that character. But the Searing happened. The game went on. Now it’s Lion’s Arch that’s being scorched. This is the kind of ‘nothing is sacred’ approach that the original game embraced. So why can’t you embrace it now?

My heart is already broken and I never even played GW1. It must really suck for you guys that loved GW1. I hear many good things about it that I am very close to buying the whole thing on steam….and switching to it….even on solo…at least maybe I get a bit of story out of it….because 2k hours of GW2 and I still have no clue what is going on….

Zera Allimatti.2541:

The issue I have is that there is very little left of the original game for continuity’s sake, and it seems that the game is no longer about the player on an individual level…

To be fair, the game IS set two hundred years after the first game. A lot of stuff can happen in-between. The way the game was at launch seemed to fit the lore just fine.

With that said, though, I do agree with your sentiments about how the Living Story is ruining the game. I would be fine with them destroying Lion’s Arch if it was part of a story that made sense, but unfortunately that’s not what we got…

I also agree that the game is just becoming a big zerg fest (think: Tequatl, wurm, marionette, mad king’s labyrinth 2.0, tower of nightmares, clockwork chaos, and now escape from L.A.). When was the last time they added content that was friendly to casual players or small groups? Twilight Assault? That was nearly five months ago… The new way of doing things seems to be open world zergs, where you become a faceless number in a swarm of 100+ people while you spam your first skill. It’s really not satisfying.

Those people that say that people still play GW1….
Well.. people still play EverQuest 1 too…
But that doesn’t change the fact that Spamadan chat now is completely readable as opposed to when GW2 didn’t exist and the chat flew past in mach 3.

Yes, people still “play” it.
But far from the number of players that people want it to look like.

Xiahou Mao.9701:

lazarus.1639:

Even the Great Northern Wall might not survive this year.

Stop destroying the old lore please.

I hope you can look back at what you wrote and see the irony there.

What is the ‘lore’ of the Great Northern Wall? Well, it just so happens that in the original game, it was destroyed by the Searing. For you to complain now about the potential destruction of something that was already destroyed in the game you’re nostalgic for is more than a little silly.

If anything, this attack on Lion’s Arch is very much staying true to Guild Wars tradition. Things get destroyed. Everyone has fond memories of ‘pre-Searing’, the peaceful Ascalon that is lost once you reach a certain story step and that can then never be accessed again with that character. But the Searing happened. The game went on. Now it’s Lion’s Arch that’s being scorched. This is the kind of ‘nothing is sacred’ approach that the original game embraced. So why can’t you embrace it now?

Holy crap, I see i need to be 100% accurate in order to communicate with you. Okay, let me try again, ahem: when i was talking about the Great Northern Wall being destroyed, i was referring to the actual ruins of the Great Northern Wall being reduced to tiny microscopic tiny bits inside of a giant crater created by some random giant spacecraft driven by some random crazy sylvari, so nothing would remain of the original wall.
There, i think that was precise enough.

And the Searing was part of the main story of the campaign. It had a lot of background and was a major part of the plot. Charr using a powerful old magic given to them by the Titans (who had also a lot of background behind them) to retake their lands, for they were there before the humans arrive. That was awesome! and that’s only the beginning.

However, the destruction of this ruins with a godkitten giant flying drill is just pure vandalism. What freaking purpose does it serve? and please don’t tell me that we will have to wait for the next update to see that purpose… it’s been 1 year since Flame and Frost (or 6 months since Queen’s Jubilee) and we still have no clue on why the hell She does what She does (except the I’M CRAZY LALALALA part).

So, i beg you Anet, please stop destroying the old lore.

ps: and even then, when they finally tell us what Her purpose is, it will most certainly be just silly… given previous experiences.

For those that still can’t figure it out, this game is not GW1, it never was GW1, it will never be GW1, and is not supposed to be GW1. If you want to play GW1, then please do so.

Times change, cities get ruined, populations vanish, knowledge fades… Thus is the cruel reality how time handles all things. A-Net seems to want to reflect this, and I understand it very well.

At least they continue to keep some key places.

Sigh.

lazarus.1639:

Holy crap, I see i need to be 100% accurate in order to communicate with you. Okay, let me try again, ahem: when i was talking about the Great Northern Wall being destroyed, i was referring to the actual ruins of the Great Northern Wall being reduced to tiny microscopic tiny bits inside of a giant crater created by some random giant spacecraft driven by some random crazy sylvari, so nothing would remain of the original wall.
There, i think that was precise enough.

I think you missed the point I was making, rather than being unclear yourself. Yes, there are still ruins of the Great Northern Wall. It doesn’t really matter if they’re just smashed further in the coming year in GW2, or if they’re atomized, or whatever. My point remains that breaking things and changing the world has been a part of Guild Wars since, well, the prologue of Guild Wars: Prophecies. It’s what the series is built on. The game could have started in war-torn Ascalon with the Charr siege already underway, but instead they introduced you to a pristine, idyllic world and then tore it away from you, letting you find the ruined doll of the child who skipped along with you later as a loot drop to drive home just how horrible the events were.

The Searing was part of the main story of the campaign. It had a lot of background and was a major part of the plot. Charr using a powerful old magic given to them by the Titans (who had also a lot of background behind them) to retake their lands, for they were there before the humans arrive. That was awesome! and that’s only the beginning.

However, the destruction of this ruins with a godkitten giant flying drill is just pure vandalism. What freaking purpose does it serve? and please don’t tell me that we will have to wait for the next update to see that purpose… it’s been 1 year since Flame and Frost (or 6 months since Queen’s Jubilee) and we still have no clue on why the hell She does what She does (except the I’M CRAZY LALALALA part).

Alright, next point. When you started playing Prophecies, when the wall came smashing down due to Burntfur’s spell, were you aware of all of this background behind the attack that you’re happily touting here? Did you know about the powers driving the Searing Cauldrons, of the Titans who had granted the Charr these powers? I’d hope you didn’t, to know that you would have had to be reading spoilers. The story was revealed as you progressed through the game.

Now I know back during Prophecies that there were some players who whined and complained about the Searing and that they loved pre-Searing Ascalon and would have characters that would never leave it. Okay. But I certainly don’t remember having any players who complained about the powers the Charr wielded in smashing the wall, calling Burntfur a Mary Sue villain doing impossible things. I don’t remember hearing anyone complain about the White Mantle’s insidious hold on Kryta and how unrealistic it was that such a cult could gain influence. Even if there were people who might complain about such things, after a few weeks/months there were spoilers available that revealed how the Flame Legion aligned with the Titans, or how the Mursaat were involved in Kryta, and so on. The difference with Scarlet’s arc is that there has (at least until recently) been no ability to look ahead and find spoilers. The story is being told in episodic form, we can’t peek ahead at what is to come. This means that you aren’t getting all the answers you want right away, and for some people that’s apparently inexcusable. You want to know how the story ends, sometimes even before the story truly starts.

I’ve been avoiding spoilers, myself. I don’t know what Scarlet is after, but I do know why she’s after it. After the last month of updates I’m pretty sure I’ve figured out what’s going on in her head and why it’s pretty earth-shaking, at the end of the day, even without knowing exactly what she hopes to get out of drilling through Lion’s Arch. Am I complaining that I don’t know what she hopes to achieve? No, because I’ll find out in two weeks. You will too. But you’ve already made up your mind to hate her for whatever reason, be it “she’s a Mary-Sue” or “it’s unrealistic that they’d follow her” or “she’s a Sylvari and they didn’t exist in the first game”.

If you dislike her, you dislike her, that’s fine. She wasn’t designed to be a likeable character. I just think, after that tangent I went off on, if you’re someone who likes maintaining old locations the way they were, that this is the wrong game series for you.

And my point still stands. The changes we saw on GW1 were made due to well (of course, not perfect) written stories. It didn’t matter if it was the destruction of one place or the beginning of the building of another, everything had its purpose and reason to be there, or at least, if it didn’t, it was a nice mistery to be unveiled. Of course we didn’t know all the plot since the beginning, but it didn’t made it worse at all, because we were discovering it little by little, acknowledging parts of Tyria’s history that were inside the very game.
In the end we faced a cunning and powerful villian, with complex but rather understandable plans (and later we even discovered that he was serving an even higher and darker power, but that’s another story). And the expirience was satisfactory, of course it wasn’t like ‘’holy crap this is [insert Tolkien/Neil Gaiman/anyothercomicorbookauthorgenious] level’’, but it was a pretty nice feeling.

The current living story so far, has not delivered, at least for me, a feeling of accomplishment. Of course i’m not looking for the SAME feeling the old Prophecies GW1 campaign gave me, you can’t compare them (one had all the info inside the very game, on the other we had to search and read blogs, one was a whole campaign, the other are just episodes, one had tri-dimensional characters, now we have more simple and younger player-appealing bi-dimensional ones, et cetera).
And of course it’s not the same game, but it’s the same lore. Although some times, it doesn’t look so…

So the thing is, if Lion’s Arch, and more importantly, old Lion’s Arch ruins have been destroyed for a good and well written reason that is finally revealed at the end of this arc, i shall stand corrected, for it is not the destruction itself that matters, but the reason behind this destruction, and its story.
However i don’t have my hopes very high, given previous experiences, so that’s the reason I ask them to stop touching the old lore, for i’m afraid of them destroying it with no reason at all.

The ruins of old Lions Arch is literally the only thing I am going to miss about Lions Arch.

The writers could have picked anywhere, the choice they made does sadden me but honestly irritates me a fair bit more. What next? A big drill to destroy the ruins of Droknars Forge?

The Lore and history of Guild Wars I should be celebrated, not destroyed, ignored and rewritten.

My question is…. why was the destruction of the ruins deemed so necessary? What point does it make?

If is was done to make Scarlet somehow more villainous, it failed. She is still a joke, and I blame the people who scripted it. Fact is, my resentment at all the destruction, kessex, LA, is laid at the feet of the writing team. Scarlet is too shallow, too unbelievable, too much godmod to ever take seriously, and so my animosity that should be pointed at her, isn’t.

All I am seeing is what looks like a desperate effort to make her believable. Blow up and destroy enough, and we will take her seriously? No. There isn’t enough content in this game you can destroy, there aren’t enough likeable NPCs to murder, you just cant DO enough “bad” things to make Scarlet anything but ludicrous. You are destroying for nothing.

GG

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

All I am seeing is what looks like a desperate effort to make her believable. Blow up and destroy enough, and we will take her seriously? No. There isn’t enough content in this game you can destroy, there aren’t enough likeable NPCs to murder, you just cant DO enough “bad” things to make Scarlet anything but ludicrous. You are destroying for nothing.

GG

Do you think her drilling, say, on the shore to avoid the ruins makes her any less/more villainous (or in your term, worth noting at all)?

Legitimate question, as in real life there is many eras we as people have destroyed. She just doesn’t care, even if she was a villain of some great stature, like a dragon, destroying the ruins into obliteration is going to happen if they, at any given time, wanted to destroy LA.

Many attempts have been prevented in our PS, and other events. This just happens to be the one to fall through the cracks and get through to LA.

gw1 anet =|= gw2 anet
most people who worked on gw1 already left the company so obviously their “touch” on the game would also disappear.

Zera Allimatti.2541:

You seem to not even want to tap into the lore, much less the game’s main plot about the dragons. This living story thing barely even mentions or name drops anything from the main plot about the dragons.

Actually, they’ve been dropping a lot of hints that Scarlet may very well be an Elder Dragon’s champion (: ! Most likely Primordus, too! Think about it. She hears a voice that she wants to confront the source of. And before you say “But Sylvari can’t be corrupted,” she did go through Omadd’s invention which virtually strips the mind’s defenses and throws you into a vulnerable state. There’s also the Infinity Ball personal story! If you didn’t give the Infinity Ball enough power, it would teleport Destroyers (which are Primordus’ minions) which basically means that the source of power that normally powers devices in that area (chaos magic leylines) also has a layer of dragon magic leylines. Given the trajectory of that leyline (based on locations of special corrupted enemies, Fleshreavers, and such) that dragon magic leyline must be crossing through Rata Sum (and they also have been having troubles with Destroyers, lore-wise). So maybe Omadd’s device wasn’t powered enough and instead of looking into the Eternal Alchemy, she got corrupted by Primordus. She did wake up and became hot to the touch for a few moments. There are other tidbits of good evidence that I could mention, but the best idea would be to just go and look at that theory (: !

So, basically, just stick with it (: ! The season 1 finale of the living story is around March 4th! And if that drill really is going to awaken Primordus, then how awesome would that be :b?

Zylonite.5913:

My heart is already broken and I never even played GW1. It must really suck for you guys that loved GW1. I hear many good things about it that I am very close to buying the whole thing on steam….and switching to it….even on solo…at least maybe I get a bit of story out of it….because 2k hours of GW2 and I still have no clue what is going on….

I am with you. The continuity of the game, the lag at these megaevents in the beginning, the falloff when everyone gets their achievements and then the utter disregard for the lore of the game that drew everyone to it is just getting old.

OP, don’t sober yourself over Tyria’s ancient buildings and cities, because A-Net wants a changing world, whether bad or not. Although, I do hope they get around limitations of the changing world (Orr, for example).

They want to create lore with players involved. So 8 years from now, players will play Guild Wars 3 (or something), and will say “Oh! I remember that, I was in that battle.” or perhaps “I was there when L.A got attacked!”. This sort of thing never exactly happened in an MMO, and I really want this to happen more often.

Although not perfect because of design and technology limitations, it is indeed a step forward than GW1 Ascalon attack. You don’t get to see your favorite NPC’s you saw before (correct me if I’m wrong), and you don’t really participate in the massacre.

Tyria is a planet with its ups and downs on its conflicts and can even change drastically (which can be interesting, like what happened to L.A), not exactly a static world like every other single MMO you had ever possibly seen in the entirety of your usable life. This is why I bought GW2, because although changes can be lazy, unnoticeable, or even plain, I’m glad it’s a change. Besides, A-Net aren’t particularly money grabbing people with excessive paywalls, so that’s a plus note.

Just tell me this, where exactly is the fun and intrigue, of cataclysm, war and dragons, if nothing is gonna really be destroyed? How is it going to be fun knowing that no matter if the mother of all dragons attacks Tyria, everything will be intact or rebuild as new, once the chaos is over. I’m sorry, but I hope L. A. never comes back (and I’ve been playing GW since 2006 so I’ve dedicated more time, and love this game much more, than 90% of the people playing right now). This is a living, evolving world, which means it’s never gonna feel or look the same (or at least they shouldn’t), because the world will evolve, good things and bad things will happen, and we’ll have to adapt. No more L. A.? Then we’ll find another place to settle (making the game feel new again and much more entertaining). Once Jormag decides to appear, the Shiverpeaks will evolve, once Kralkatorrik (or however you spell it), shows up, the ascalonian ruins will evolve, and so on. I’m tired of all the bs invasions, and bs disaster, so that in the end, everything ends up looking exactly the same (like it happened the last time a so called catastrophe struck LA). It’s time for a change, it’s still Tyria, so cherish the fact that you saw how it once was. But a living world will go through changes, and it’s just awesome that we as players get to lose the places we cherish, and get to experience loss just like the characters, which ultimately draws us closer to the story (which has been magnificent in lore, but visually, emotionally, and the way it’s been presented so far, it has been underwhelming to say the least, and now it has a chance to be great).

This is an MMO set in the GW universe, not a GW MMO. We must learn this difference no matter how much it hurts.

I had to stop playing GW because I found the advanced NPC characters were getting higher in level and I wasn’t. There was no guild to help like in GW2. I don’t remember much except the desert and the forest to get ranger drop gear but that is where I was able to play. When it went back to the cold area and you talk to the dragon that’s where I stopped. Characters are becoming much like they did in GW and I had to stop because I never got any help defeating the advanced NPCs. I hope that is not where GW2 is headed. Scarlett’s events are hanging on and on and on. It was started in about July 13 and I hasn’t stopped. When will it end? With the destruction of all of Tyria and everyone enslaved. I mean; come on, what is the fun in that? I thought GW2 was supposed to be fun; not like this.

“Guild Wars 2 takes everything you love about Guild Wars 1” and let it get blown away by a weak villain called Scarlet.

I commanded all forces of the pact to LA, but even though I am a commander, noone ever listens there to me.

OP i admire your endearment for the original, i also played the original and the sec i heard the music from the escape from lions arch video it took me right back to LA in gw1, but truth be told the connection between gw1 and gw2 was severed a long long time ago, during the production of gw’s2 when devs decided to go the route they did, and thats ok, gw1 will forever hold a place in the hearts of the people who played it, and will always leave people who didnt wondering why we always gone on a about it, honestly let it go, gw1 will always be alive in our memorys and actually i kinda prefer it that way.

Warning: don’t go fishing with Al Neri.

Wow, I didn’t think there would be much of a response. I apologize for the time of my response, I’m in a Japan time zone when most of you are asleep.

Anyway, there were several good points covered by you guys Have some more:

• Bonfazz Burnfur wasn’t shoved in our face for the majority of a year, unlike some psychopath I know who has a 20k Eviscerate with her name on it. In one year’s time, GW1 provided a fully fleshed story and an entire new continent with it’s own story. All we’ve gotten for the past year has been filler to detract away from the main plot.

• Scarlet being a dragon champion is a huge cop-out. Scarlet is a puppet, not a champion. It would have been so much better if Primordus or any one of the other elder dragons literally dropped in from the sky (or popped out from the ground in Primordus’ case) and wrecked mass destruction of LA. No Scarlet, no middle man; straight up “Yeah that’s right, we are still here. You think we’ll be as easy as Zhaitan?” Besides, Primorus is already awake. It awoke during the final events of GW1. Scarlet can’t ‘awaken’ Primordus.

• It is a well known fact that the original ArenaNet is long gone. As before I’m simply pointing out that if this ArenaNet is deliberately trying to separate itself from it’s GW1 roots, as some have said, then it should do so by changing the name of this game. I’m not saying GW2 is a bad game (it’s a very good game), but it is a little bit of a stain on the name of GW.

• As much as I love GW1, I gave that gave more than 7 years of play (not consecutive, of course. I do sleep/eat/work/live) and I have no need to give it any more. I got my full of the game and am thoroughly satisfied with it; best game ever. At this rate I doubt I’ll be able to give GW2 even half of that amount of time; can’t fill GW1’s shoes.

• I’m all for a changing world, but they way they are going about it is off-putting. I would have accepted the destruction of things like the old ruins of LA or the original lighthouse if it was done by the game’s primary antagonists, not some puppet or a random piece of seafood pretending to be a primary antagonist.

Traveller.7496:

But I can’t help but feeling that they know that the level of world building, writing and immersion was superior in the original game and they’re frustrated that so many people aren’t feeling their chosen approach on GW2 (read: Living story) compared to traditional expansion style.

This. I am almost tempted to say that Scarlet is representative of Anet: they subconsciously faced a terror (the fact that they failed their own game with the LS) and by repressing this truth they now willfully accomplish it by destroying their own game. Almost

Yes, this isn’t Guild Wars 1.

Which is a good thing. If it were Guild Wars 1, it’d never be as successful as it is. And the developers at ANet ultimately have to get money to get some food, so success is something I very very much wish for them. And GW2 is doing pretty well.

Also, GW1 had a horrendously toxic community. It shows in GW2 partially on the forums and partially in sPvP, but it seems for the most part, we managed to get rid of it in the transition.

People should be loooking back allot less. Don’t be afraid of change. Don’t be too sentimental.
The destruction of LA is a good thing, and it is exiting to see where we go from here. Having a big importand city destroyed creates new memories and is way bigger then if it would be just for 2 weeks and then suddenly LA would be back. That would just be lame.

Now we can just look forward to see this comming to a cataclysm and there will be a new major hub eventualy. be it in one for the main racial cities or a totaly new place.

Zera Allimatti.2541:

You completely missed the point I was bringing up… I know they aren’t trying to make GW1 with revamped graphics. The issue I have is that there is very little left of the original game for continuity’s sake, and it seems that the game is no longer about the player on an individual level (the Pact is nowhere to be found during all of this, plus the player has become a complete unknown to Destiny’s Edge and the majority of the rest of Tyria).

All we are now is just another zergling in the massive player zergs that just overwhelm everything with large numbers. As I said, they should just change the game’s name and get it over with.

Because the personal story was messed up right from the start.

GW1:
Vizier Khilbron: Yes, you are all Chosen.
GW2:
Trahearne: You, player 1, is my commander.

It was a grave mistake to the story to name you, the player, the solo commander of the Pact. If you are indeed the commander, you have to deny the existence of everyone that you played with in your universe. Why? Because they are ALSO commander(s) themselves. So these players CANNOT exist in the same universe as you do.

What this means is that, you playing together with anyone in GW2 is PURELY a game play mechanic. You do not know them. You will never know them. Because they cannot ever exist in your “personal” story.

Or, you deny to accept that you are the commander. In fact, you have to believe that NO PLAYER is the solo commander of the Pact. The commander in, in fact, a NPC that we still hasn’t seen. We, the players, were on that ship fighting Zhitan. But we aren’t the commander.

I personal go with the 2nd option. I am not the commander. Right now my character is on a break from the Pact, after Zhaitan was “killed”. During my vacation, Scarlet starts causing trouble and now she is in LA. Most members of the Pact is also on vacation, so they weren’t ready when this invasion hit.

I know this isn’t a good explanation. And no I never liked the Scarlet story arc. But I just try to make sense of it.

Let’s just look forward to the next story arc. For now, enjoy the game play and loot. ^^

As for LA getting destroyed, this has nothing to do with anti-GW1. This change is required for the living story to be considered living. Things needs to be changed so much that they never can return to how they used to be. Think of the Searing in GW1. This is a GOOD move on Anet’s part.

Now no city is safe for future destruction. This is how is should be.

Carighan.6758:

Yes, this isn’t Guild Wars 1.

Which is a good thing. If it were Guild Wars 1, it’d never be as successful as it is. And the developers at ANet ultimately have to get money to get some food, so success is something I very very much wish for them. And GW2 is doing pretty well.

Also, GW1 had a horrendously toxic community. It shows in GW2 partially on the forums and partially in sPvP, but it seems for the most part, we managed to get rid of it in the transition.

The success of what game paid for this game? Or put another way.. no GW, no GW2. I have said before, and repeat, they should be praying this game has the longevity and player loyalty GW did (and has).

Toxic community? Ranger bashing, Dungeon elitism, rage at marionette fails, rage on “champ trains” and w/e. Toxicity is part and parcel of every MMO if you are in the wrong spot “doing the wrong thing”.

Forum toxicity? Depends on who you disagree with. Fans can be as toxic as the naysayers and often are. Perspective.

And re the ruins of Old LA.. it was a small area. A little fountain. Some steps. Little things GW vets looked at fondly.. that stood in the way of “progress” in no way. They did not need destroyed to advance the story and I guess I’m mystified at the jubilation shown by some when it happened.

The ruins of Ascalon still stand. Bulldozing them into oblivion was not needed, during the searing, or now, to supposedly make a “living world”. A living world can hold remembrance of the past as well as the new and in fact.. adds to it.

Sad that this is drowned out in the BURN IT ALL mindset of some of the player base and, it seems, some of the developers as well. I do not understand it.

Cities Fall. Yes. But Rome did NOT fall to the barbarian equivalent of Curly, Moe and Larry, and Troy did not fall to the era’s equivalent of Team Rocket. LA deserved an epic death, and instead got instakilled by plot convenience. Not a good way to go.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

The success of what game paid for this game? Or put another way.. no GW, no GW2. I have said before, and repeat, they should be praying this game has the longevity and player loyalty GW did (and has).

I really don’t think they’re worried in that regard. For all it’s loyalty, GW1 isn’t a big thing, and not a MMO compatible with the modern gaming audience (it happened at the transitional stage WoW caused, but didn’t capture the post-transition audience).

Loyal fanbases are problematic in a way. They buy things they shouldn’t pay for (problematic for the customer, tells developers it’s ok to do this), at the same time they expect to have a huge amount of control over development, which is unhealthy for the game because by and large, their ideas and opinions are still as terrible as everyone else’s.

And most importantly, GW1 was an ok game, but is hyped too far. Few games are worthy of significant praise, and for highly specific reasons. GW1 isn’t one of them. It didn’t really do anything out of the ordinary. On a technical level it has a back then impressive texture engine, granted.

It was ok, but became stale really fast unless you enjoyed the PvP side. PvP is still a small game mode for MMOs as a whole, simply because the post-WoW MMO player base is largely built of people who don’t want to play something as stressful as PvP.
It is for that very reason that GW1’s design isn’t feasible nowadays. It was built for the pre-WoW players (and worked well in that regard). WoW’s tractions caused the change in the MMO market which made GW1 redundant and outdated, and GW2 is the game aimed at the modern audience.

(This is also evident from the way sPvP is criticized, the whole game mode ultimately feels like a compromise for the GW1 players…)

Zera Allimatti.2541:

You guys just keep detaching GW2 from GW1 little by little. With the ruins of old LA gone under that big drill, there is literally NOTHING LEFT of the original Lion’s Arch from GW1.

You destroyed the original lighthouse under an ugly crustacean like it was nothing, and now the little bit that we (your original fans and the reason this game even exists) had, is gone forever. It doesn’t matter if GW2’s LA is rebuilt, the ruins of the original are gone for sure.

Why do you hate the game that is the basis of this game so much? I know Guild Wars 2 is not the same game is Guild Wars 1, but as time passed it has gone further and further from it’s roots. I don’t even recognize Tyria anymore. You seem to not even want to tap into the lore, much less the game’s main plot about the dragons. This living story thing barely even mentions or name drops anything from the main plot about the dragons.

Where was the pact while Scarlet attacked? Where’s my/our fleet of airships that fought Zhaitan (No, they were not all destroyed). Is the pact really nothing now? Is my/our standing as commander of the pact nothing now? You guys might as well rename Guild Wars 2 to Scarlet, because Guild Wars 2, as it stands right now, is Guild Wars only in name.

Sure, the game play is mostly fun and enjoyable, but this isn’t Guild Wars. It’s not a bad game at all (on the contrary, it’s a good game despite it’s numerous flaws like any other game), but it’s not Guild Wars. I know I’m asking for a lot, probably asking for the impossible, but I only ask because I want to give you guys the benefit of the doubt and because I really love the awesome world ArenaNet created with Guild Wars all those years ago: bring back the Guild Wars to Guild Wars 2.

Come on, Mike O’Brien, you guys can do it! I know deep down, somewhere in that being of yours, you miss the original as much as I do, if not more.

It’s been 250 years…. Time to let go….

Carighan.6758:

Yes, this isn’t Guild Wars 1.

Which is a good thing. If it were Guild Wars 1, it’d never be as successful as it is. And the developers at ANet ultimately have to get money to get some food, so success is something I very very much wish for them. And GW2 is doing pretty well.

Also, GW1 had a horrendously toxic community. It shows in GW2 partially on the forums and partially in sPvP, but it seems for the most part, we managed to get rid of it in the transition.

You must’ve bundled up with the wrong folks then, because GW1 had the best community I’ve ever seen in any MMO. Yeah sure, there were scammers (a side-effect of the trading system) and idiots (you can’t get away from those, no matter what), but it was still a great community. “GW2’s” could be worse, I guess, but it’s nowhere near as good as it was in Guild Wars.

As for the OP’s point: wholeheartedly agreed. See my signature below for more elaborate but concise details.

Pache.9406:

Just tell me this, where exactly is the fun and intrigue, of cataclysm, war and dragons, if nothing is gonna really be destroyed? How is it going to be fun knowing that no matter if the mother of all dragons attacks Tyria, everything will be intact or rebuild as new, once the chaos is over. I’m sorry, but I hope L. A. never comes back (and I’ve been playing GW since 2006 so I’ve dedicated more time, and love this game much more, than 90% of the people playing right now). This is a living, evolving world, which means it’s never gonna feel or look the same (or at least they shouldn’t), because the world will evolve, good things and bad things will happen, and we’ll have to adapt. No more L. A.? Then we’ll find another place to settle (making the game feel new again and much more entertaining). Once Jormag decides to appear, the Shiverpeaks will evolve, once Kralkatorrik (or however you spell it), shows up, the ascalonian ruins will evolve, and so on. I’m tired of all the bs invasions, and bs disaster, so that in the end, everything ends up looking exactly the same (like it happened the last time a so called catastrophe struck LA). It’s time for a change, it’s still Tyria, so cherish the fact that you saw how it once was. But a living world will go through changes, and it’s just awesome that we as players get to lose the places we cherish, and get to experience loss just like the characters, which ultimately draws us closer to the story (which has been magnificent in lore, but visually, emotionally, and the way it’s been presented so far, it has been underwhelming to say the least, and now it has a chance to be great).

This, entirely this! One of the things that excited me the most about GW2 was the prospect of a dynamic, alive, living world that changes over time. Up until now, all we had were ‘world events’ or ‘dynamic events’ where we, for example, had to ‘save some village from the centaurs’, where if you came back tomorrow, the village was still there, all shiny and new like nothing had ever happened.

Now Anet has taken a bold new direction, and literally obliterated a city we all knew and loved and spent a great deal of time in. THAT is what a living, breathing, ever changing world is supposed to be about. THAT is what I’ve been waiting for since the launch of GW2. I love this new direction the game is going, and I eagerly look forward to seeing how Volume 1 in the Living Story plays out. I sincerely hope we see more events in the future that have major impacts on the world like this one (whether they cause destruction or creation/addition of new lands).

I just hope more people embrace change, and continue to make memories amongst themselves and their friends throughout the life of GW2, so we can all sit around a fire one day in GW3 and reminisce about the world-changing events that took place in Tyria’s history. Or think back fondly about the times we spent in Lion’s Arch before its destruction (again).

Carighan.6758:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

The success of what game paid for this game? Or put another way.. no GW, no GW2. I have said before, and repeat, they should be praying this game has the longevity and player loyalty GW did (and has).

Few games are worthy of significant praise, and for highly specific reasons. GW1 isn’t one of them. It didn’t really do anything out of the ordinary.

I guess, at that line, I quit giving credence to anything else you have to say and see no need to explain the obvious.

I should have stated earlier, I agree with the OP and particularly with her/his follow up post.

Vol.7601:

I love how OP talks about no mention of dragons in this story arc.

Oh sweet summer child..

Oh, sweet reality… there has been no dragon in this story arc save one scrawled on a cave roof. Unless you are counting the Teq sideshow revamp of existing content.

not saying there will not be.. but up to now… no. And it is safe to say LA was destroyed without one present. We saw the event.

Traveller.7496:

They’re detaching themselves from GW1 since they have commented that if people want GW1, they can go and play GW1, and GW2 is not and won’t be GW1 with revamped graphics. And that I can respect since they admit it.

But I can’t help but feeling that they know that the level of world building, writing and immersion was superior in the original game and they’re frustrated that so many people aren’t feeling their chosen approach on GW2 (read: Living story) compared to traditional expansion style.

It really feels like that, does it not? (Really Anet? Doesn’t-it gets censored?)
You have to give them props though for trying out new things. It would be nice if they could pull off more immersion in their storytelling (kinda like all pre-EA Bioware games did).
Overall, besides the horrible, horrible grind that ascended gear is Anet has made a really great game imho.

Mr Bimble.2764:

“The world changes, particularly when you have Elder Dragons trying to destroy it”
What dragons?All I’ve seen is a mess of Living story about an insane tree hugger.This has plagued gw2 since the beginning.Guild Wars it ain’t.I enjoy it enough when I can keep away from the living story crap,but it does make it a very limited game.I have no idea why there is some “lore” attachment because the connection has gone.Perhaps it never really existed at all except to draw in guild wars players.

My favorite description of her whose name shall not be mentioned.

Lion’s Arch definitely deserved better, that’s for sure. And you’d think Claw Island would have been outfitted with airships and all forms of AAA batteries (that’s anti-aircraft artillery for those who don’t know). The undead had some, why not Claw Island? Claw Island was completely ignored. They didn’t even light the watch towers.

Regarding what someone said earlier about how my/our standing as Commander of the Pact is irrelevant because each player’s personal story has nothing to do with another player’s (which is correct, of course), it’s worse than you think. You forget that ArenaNet could have easily made it so that the interaction dialogue with certain key NPCs would at least reflect it correctly. As I mentioned before in another post, interacting with Logan or Rytlock in past LS instances, the player was treated as a nobody. Given that the LS instances were tailored for the player, that disconnect is horrible from a story/writing standpoint. Surely the members of Destiny’s Edge would remember the hero who brought them all back together and fought along their side against Zhaitan. But no, both the NPC’s and the player’s dialogue play off as if nothing of the sort ever happened. THAT is the problem I was referring to about the whole ‘my/our standing as the Pact Commander’. The LS is not canon at all.

Zera Allimatti.2541:

Lion’s Arch definitely deserved better, that’s for sure. And you’d think Claw Island would have been outfitted with airships and all forms of AAA batteries (that’s anti-aircraft artillery for those who don’t know). The undead had some, why not Claw Island? Claw Island was completely ignored. They didn’t even light the watch towers.

Regarding what someone said earlier about how my/our standing as Commander of the Pact is irrelevant because each player’s personal story has nothing to do with another player’s (which is correct, of course), it’s worse than you think. You forget that ArenaNet could have easily made it so that the interaction dialogue with certain key NPCs would at least reflect it correctly. As I mentioned before in another post, interacting with Logan or Rytlock in past LS instances, the player was treated as a nobody. Given that the LS instances were tailored for the player, that disconnect is horrible from a story/writing standpoint. Surely the members of Destiny’s Edge would remember the hero who brought them all back together and fought along their side against Zhaitan. But no, both the NPC’s and the player’s dialogue play off as if nothing of the sort ever happened. THAT is the problem I was referring to about the whole ‘my/our standing as the Pact Commander’. The LS is not canon at all.

You are correct. Let me say that it is better to treat the Personal Story as non-canon and treat the Living Story as canon. Things make more sense this way.

I don’t think GW2 will continue the PS. LS is what they are pushing forward now. And I think it is better this way. PS is solo, so the player might as well go play a single player game.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

And re the ruins of Old LA.. it was a small area. A little fountain. Some steps. Little things GW vets looked at fondly.. that stood in the way of “progress” in no way. They did not need destroyed to advance the story and I guess I’m mystified at the jubilation shown by some when it happened.

This. Right now, the destruction of the ruins can only be qualified as vandalism, unless they give some good and well written explanation (however, I doubt we’ll see any…).