Guild Wars 2

It is my humble opinion that the Temple of Balthazar meta event should be altered. Perhaps not drastically, but at least escorting up to the altar itself needs work.

In my case, I attempt to run it regularly with my guild. On average, we get 20-25 people to come out—what I define as a “large run”. After 7-10 tries, we’ve made it to the Risen Priest once before failing, with every other attempt failing during the escort.

Then there came tonight’s little adventure. Another guild “organized” (I use that term loosely) an attack on the Temple with 60+ people. There was no strategy, there was no coordination, it was completely, by definition, a zerg with three or four commanders acting as the head of the hive mind. Their instructions amounted to “kill everything as fast as you can”—and they won where my guild and I always failed.

Is that the answer, then? Do tactics really no longer play a role in capturing the Temple of Balthazar? Is it completely dependent on how big your zerg is? Because if it is, that’s a mistake. That’s telling me no matter how coordinated my group of 20 is, I will never claim Balthazar because I need an extra 40 people to act as braindead meatshields during the morale-breaking ambushes. And that makes me sick.

Back to the point, I strongly urge ANet to adjust the scaling on the Temple of Balthazar. Because no matter the event, the answer shouldn’t be for the player to kitten harder than the NPC’s kitten .

It’s unfortunate that the best answer to overcoming challenges like the Balth escort is “more damage.” It’s also unfortunate that “more damage” is the best answer in pretty much all of PvE.

It’s possible for smaller groups to use tactics like mesmer GS 5 push-away to interrupt waves of nobles, throwing lots of direct heal fields on the pact, etc. However, larger groups can use these tactics as well as smaller ones. Coordinating more complex actions is harder than just saying, “Kill the mobs fast.” Many people take the path of least resistance whenever possible. Large groups can get away with simplistic tactics.

However, scaling the event up so that even more mobs spawn may be problematic, also. After all, more mob damage is going to kitten the Pact’s morale also. So, are you asking that the event be scaled up to the point where no matter how large the group attempting it, there would be around one chance in ten the escort would be completed? Or are you asking that the event be scaled down to be more doable by a smaller group?

I would recommending sending 3-5 players out as an “advance guard” to scout and absorb AoE attacks from risen nobles before the NPCs run into them. They should be about 1200 range away from the Pact group at all times. On FA we tested this strategy and it worked, we had 100% morale up until the end, when we got hit and took 50% losses, but we still captured the temple.

I did this event last night with about 30 players, with me being the only commander. We first did the entire event chain, which took a while, before we could finally march on the altar (a previous group had failed the event, so we had to go through the whole chain again).

I told everyone to rally to my commander icon, and bring in reinforcements from their guilds. The tactics were pretty simple. Spam healing and support on the npc’s, and save the heavy attacks and blind-spam for when ever a big mob spawns. We had several players stick to the npc’s like glue, while some others scouted ahead, and squashed incoming waves from afar.

Our tactics were by no means refined, and during the boss battle a lot of players had to be revived. But we made it eventually….. and all that because I needed 54 obsidian shards. Fun times.

IndigoSundown.5419:

It’s unfortunate that the best answer to overcoming challenges like the Balth escort is “more damage.” It’s also unfortunate that “more damage” is the best answer in pretty much all of PvE.

It’s possible for smaller groups to use tactics like mesmer GS 5 push-away to interrupt waves of nobles, throwing lots of direct heal fields on the pact, etc. However, larger groups can use these tactics as well as smaller ones. Coordinating more complex actions is harder than just saying, “Kill the mobs fast.” Many people take the path of least resistance whenever possible. Large groups can get away with simplistic tactics.

However, scaling the event up so that even more mobs spawn may be problematic, also. After all, more mob damage is going to kitten the Pact’s morale also. So, are you asking that the event be scaled up to the point where no matter how large the group attempting it, there would be around one chance in ten the escort would be completed? Or are you asking that the event be scaled down to be more doable by a smaller group?

I think that the larger the group attempting to do Balthazar, the more the event should be scaled up to make it more challenging. Even so, a coordinated group of 10 is capable of doing Dwayna, Melandru, Grenth, and potentially even Lyssa and the Steps due to how each event scales to accommodate the group. I don’t see why this is so impossible for Balthazar. So I would opt for the second of the two options you’ve provided me.

Immersturm.6097:

It is my humble opinion that the Temple of Balthazar meta event should be altered. Perhaps not drastically, but at least escorting up to the altar itself needs work.

In my case, I attempt to run it regularly with my guild. On average, we get 20-25 people to come out—what I define as a “large run”. After 7-10 tries, we’ve made it to the Risen Priest once before failing, with every other attempt failing during the escort.

Then there came tonight’s little adventure. Another guild “organized” (I use that term loosely) an attack on the Temple with 60+ people. There was no strategy, there was no coordination, it was completely, by definition, a zerg with three or four commanders acting as the head of the hive mind. Their instructions amounted to “kill everything as fast as you can”—and they won where my guild and I always failed.

Is that the answer, then? Do tactics really no longer play a role in capturing the Temple of Balthazar? Is it completely dependent on how big your zerg is? Because if it is, that’s a mistake. That’s telling me no matter how coordinated my group of 20 is, I will never claim Balthazar because I need an extra 40 people to act as braindead meatshields during the morale-breaking ambushes. And that makes me sick.

Back to the point, I strongly urge ANet to adjust the scaling on the Temple of Balthazar. Because no matter the event, the answer shouldn’t be for the player to kitten harder than the NPC’s kitten .

These were meant to be World events with all people on the map coming together and getting the job done, simple. Don’t get mad at Anet because your “tactics”, I use the term loosely, were not the right “tactics” to beat the temple.

There is no reason to call the other guild “braindead meatshields” because they managed to beat the temple while your guild was not.

The fact of the matter is…you have to fill the mobs in the escort AS FAST AS YOU CAN to complete the escort…THAT IS THE TACTIC!

lol…

Amun Ra.6435:

Immersturm.6097:

It is my humble opinion that the Temple of Balthazar meta event should be altered. Perhaps not drastically, but at least escorting up to the altar itself needs work.

In my case, I attempt to run it regularly with my guild. On average, we get 20-25 people to come out—what I define as a “large run”. After 7-10 tries, we’ve made it to the Risen Priest once before failing, with every other attempt failing during the escort.

Then there came tonight’s little adventure. Another guild “organized” (I use that term loosely) an attack on the Temple with 60+ people. There was no strategy, there was no coordination, it was completely, by definition, a zerg with three or four commanders acting as the head of the hive mind. Their instructions amounted to “kill everything as fast as you can”—and they won where my guild and I always failed.

Is that the answer, then? Do tactics really no longer play a role in capturing the Temple of Balthazar? Is it completely dependent on how big your zerg is? Because if it is, that’s a mistake. That’s telling me no matter how coordinated my group of 20 is, I will never claim Balthazar because I need an extra 40 people to act as braindead meatshields during the morale-breaking ambushes. And that makes me sick.

Back to the point, I strongly urge ANet to adjust the scaling on the Temple of Balthazar. Because no matter the event, the answer shouldn’t be for the player to kitten harder than the NPC’s kitten .

These were meant to be World events with all people on the map coming together and getting the job done, simple. Don’t get mad at Anet because your “tactics”, I use the term loosely, were not the right “tactics” to beat the temple.

There is no reason to call the other guild “braindead meatshields” because they managed to beat the temple while your guild was not.

The fact of the matter is…you have to fill the mobs in the escort AS FAST AS YOU CAN to complete the escort…THAT IS THE TACTIC!

lol…

I didn’t call the other guild “braindead meatshields”. But hey, believe what you’d like.

You’re also arguing that numbers > skill and organization. That may be in World v. World (which ANet is working on correcting), but it shouldn’t be in a PvE situation.

You can argue until you’re blue in the face, but at the end of the day telling 60 people “stack on me and kill everything” and succeeding in the event isn’t a show of teamwork, which, last time I checked, Guild Wars 2 was all about.

Immersturm.6097:

Amun Ra.6435:

Immersturm.6097:

It is my humble opinion that the Temple of Balthazar meta event should be altered. Perhaps not drastically, but at least escorting up to the altar itself needs work.

In my case, I attempt to run it regularly with my guild. On average, we get 20-25 people to come out—what I define as a “large run”. After 7-10 tries, we’ve made it to the Risen Priest once before failing, with every other attempt failing during the escort.

Then there came tonight’s little adventure. Another guild “organized” (I use that term loosely) an attack on the Temple with 60+ people. There was no strategy, there was no coordination, it was completely, by definition, a zerg with three or four commanders acting as the head of the hive mind. Their instructions amounted to “kill everything as fast as you can”—and they won where my guild and I always failed.

Is that the answer, then? Do tactics really no longer play a role in capturing the Temple of Balthazar? Is it completely dependent on how big your zerg is? Because if it is, that’s a mistake. That’s telling me no matter how coordinated my group of 20 is, I will never claim Balthazar because I need an extra 40 people to act as braindead meatshields during the morale-breaking ambushes. And that makes me sick.

Back to the point, I strongly urge ANet to adjust the scaling on the Temple of Balthazar. Because no matter the event, the answer shouldn’t be for the player to kitten harder than the NPC’s kitten .

These were meant to be World events with all people on the map coming together and getting the job done, simple. Don’t get mad at Anet because your “tactics”, I use the term loosely, were not the right “tactics” to beat the temple.

There is no reason to call the other guild “braindead meatshields” because they managed to beat the temple while your guild was not.

The fact of the matter is…you have to fill the mobs in the escort AS FAST AS YOU CAN to complete the escort…THAT IS THE TACTIC!

lol…

I didn’t call the other guild “braindead meatshields”. But hey, believe what you’d like.

You’re also arguing that numbers > skill and organization. That may be in World v. World (which ANet is working on correcting), but it shouldn’t be in a PvE situation.

You can argue until you’re blue in the face, but at the end of the day telling 60 people “stack on me and kill everything” and succeeding in the event isn’t a show of teamwork, which, last time I checked, Guild Wars 2 was all about.

So you don’t consider people listening to directions teamwork…perhaps it’s time to get a dictionary…

Seems to me you are stuck in a “holy trinity” state of mind…what you fail to realize is that everything in this game was designed to be completed by a single class, if a group so chooses…if you want more complicated tactics…play a traditional MMO, because GW2 is not your traditional MMO.

As long as CC durations and healing numbers are what they are in PVE, moar dakka beats everything else. What is the point of knocking one more two mobs out for 2-3 seconds, with the skill having a 60+ second recharge? You can’t burst them down in those seconds like you can with PVP opponents, because their health pool is much larger.

the mobs only get up leveled so far, so more people means more chances that the threats to the pact team will aggro on players and not the npcs.

if you did the malchor farm while it was still active you’ll see that the mobs only do so much damage before their capped, same with their hp pools

It’s quite possible that this event is actually easier with smaller numbers of players. Because perhaps harder monsters start spawning if the number of players exceeds certain limits. Tactics also make a big difference here. A little coordination is all it takes.

It’s really an issue with Nobles mass Shadow-Stepping… and also the Acolyte Vets who for some reason summon “Boomers” … usually the instant they start casting infact which is a bug with ALL summoning Vets it seems (Krait Mesmers especially) where you basically have 0.25 seconds to start interrupting it or you’re getting a huge bunch of spawns that kind of scale to how many players are nearby.

I mean if you memorize where EVERY SINGLE Mob will spawn like I’m doing… then it stops seeming so Zerg based. But that’s after like … weeks of doing it. And that’s the only way I see it getting done too, is having several players at every single spawn location because the game will usually give you NO TIME to protect the Pact from Mass Shadowstepping Nobles … and not enough Telegraphing time to INT the Veteran Acolytes either.

I need to re-record a Video of where they are what to basically do.. but it’s really hard when GW2 zergs eat into your physical Memory so much, LOL. (then the video doesn’t want to save afterwards)

.

And yes, I’ve seen it fail PLENTY OF TIMES with over 50 players as well so just throwing more numbers at it isn’t much better

Imo, the minion spawning by Risen mobs is out of control. Champion Plague Carriers? Veteran Hatchlings? Sheer silliness. Also, I think the fights would be more interesting if mob composition was more varied. Spawns of all nobles or spiders all using the same 2-3 moves is not interesting, though it can be tedious.

Sadly it seems that the server code for spawning do not distinguish between event spawn and mob summon spawn, even tho the loot code does. End result is that summoned spawns are scaled up using the event scaling code…

digiowl.9620:

Sadly it seems that the server code for spawning do not distinguish between event spawn and mob summon spawn, even tho the loot code does. End result is that summoned spawns are scaled up using the event scaling code…

It should be the other way around.

Amun Ra.6435:

Immersturm.6097:

Amun Ra.6435:

Immersturm.6097:

It is my humble opinion that the Temple of Balthazar meta event should be altered. Perhaps not drastically, but at least escorting up to the altar itself needs work.

In my case, I attempt to run it regularly with my guild. On average, we get 20-25 people to come out—what I define as a “large run”. After 7-10 tries, we’ve made it to the Risen Priest once before failing, with every other attempt failing during the escort.

Then there came tonight’s little adventure. Another guild “organized” (I use that term loosely) an attack on the Temple with 60+ people. There was no strategy, there was no coordination, it was completely, by definition, a zerg with three or four commanders acting as the head of the hive mind. Their instructions amounted to “kill everything as fast as you can”—and they won where my guild and I always failed.

Is that the answer, then? Do tactics really no longer play a role in capturing the Temple of Balthazar? Is it completely dependent on how big your zerg is? Because if it is, that’s a mistake. That’s telling me no matter how coordinated my group of 20 is, I will never claim Balthazar because I need an extra 40 people to act as braindead meatshields during the morale-breaking ambushes. And that makes me sick.

Back to the point, I strongly urge ANet to adjust the scaling on the Temple of Balthazar. Because no matter the event, the answer shouldn’t be for the player to kitten harder than the NPC’s kitten .

These were meant to be World events with all people on the map coming together and getting the job done, simple. Don’t get mad at Anet because your “tactics”, I use the term loosely, were not the right “tactics” to beat the temple.

There is no reason to call the other guild “braindead meatshields” because they managed to beat the temple while your guild was not.

The fact of the matter is…you have to fill the mobs in the escort AS FAST AS YOU CAN to complete the escort…THAT IS THE TACTIC!

lol…

I didn’t call the other guild “braindead meatshields”. But hey, believe what you’d like.

You’re also arguing that numbers > skill and organization. That may be in World v. World (which ANet is working on correcting), but it shouldn’t be in a PvE situation.

You can argue until you’re blue in the face, but at the end of the day telling 60 people “stack on me and kill everything” and succeeding in the event isn’t a show of teamwork, which, last time I checked, Guild Wars 2 was all about.

So you don’t consider people listening to directions teamwork…perhaps it’s time to get a dictionary…

Seems to me you are stuck in a “holy trinity” state of mind…what you fail to realize is that everything in this game was designed to be completed by a single class, if a group so chooses…if you want more complicated tactics…play a traditional MMO, because GW2 is not your traditional MMO.

Giving orders is the job of a commander. Following orders is a sign of cooperation and good sportsmanship. Following a singular order (stack and kill) for the entirety of what many would consider the single largest meta event in the game isn’t a sign of teamwork, it’s a sign of hive-mindedness.

As for the holy trinity…let’s be honest, you’re just flailing at this point. That’s not even remotely related to the discussion. I’m talking about adjusting the scaling of an event and/or creating new objectives to accommodate more diversity than “run here and spam 1”. The only time the holy trinity MMO mechanic was mentioned in this thread was in your last reply.

The event is simple. My guild runs it all the time with about 20 people and its been months since we last lost. You just have to know what you are doing, have a competent commander calling out the moves and competent people responding to them. The event is not designed like the other temples, where you can just mindlessly ballyhoo up it. You have to strategize, time things, and execute. Also, 8 attempts? Really? Were you trying to do it with just 1 invasion each time? 20-25 people can get all 3 invasion in easily and then you have to be just god aweful bad to fail.

I haven’t done this event very often, but every time I switched on my commander tag, it was a success. I simply instructed people to watch out for certain large spawns, and to occasionally spam defensive/healing spells on the npc’s. I also instructed them to save their blinds for the big spawns. I usually have a small cluster of players stay close to me and the npc’s, while other players kind of roam around us, to take out incoming enemies early.

In general, most players tend to do just fine without much instructions at all. The commander is simply the rallying point for players that want to join in, and are wondering where to go to.

Aeros.2046:

The event is not designed like the other temples, where you can just mindlessly ballyhoo up it.

But that’s just it. You CAN. You CAN mindlessly ballyhoo up it.

You just need enough people and you can do it, easily. And that’s what I’m against. The mass of your zerg should never win out against the need for thought. Yet it does so here.

But, everything in this game is about damage/DPS, or you deal with it or you quit.

Immersturm.6097:

Aeros.2046:

The event is not designed like the other temples, where you can just mindlessly ballyhoo up it.

But that’s just it. You CAN. You CAN mindlessly ballyhoo up it.

You just need enough people and you can do it, easily. And that’s what I’m against. The mass of your zerg should never win out against the need for thought. Yet it does so here.

Yeah so what? You can do that with every event because they stop scaling after a certain amount of people. The escort is actually quite “easy” if you know the spawnpoints of the risen.

kokiman.2364:

Immersturm.6097:

Aeros.2046:

The event is not designed like the other temples, where you can just mindlessly ballyhoo up it.

But that’s just it. You CAN. You CAN mindlessly ballyhoo up it.

You just need enough people and you can do it, easily. And that’s what I’m against. The mass of your zerg should never win out against the need for thought. Yet it does so here.

Yeah so what? You can do that with every event because they stop scaling after a certain amount of people.

Yes, you can zerg through events with ease if you have enough people.

Does that make it right?

I have video proof to the Contrary of this thread’s Subject line.
Here’s 2 snippets of the most crucial part… (attempt #1 failed completely)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-tR5U29Xms
…This part often decides whether it’s won or lost, right off the bat…
If you have TOO many people, this can actually happen more often, not less.

The reasoning is that the Vets that spawn, all have HP’s that scales up with the player count. Too many players means that too many Vets that take too long to kill are spread all over the Battledfield which the REDSHIRTS (the guys in the pact that you have to keep alive) are still aggro’d on while the rest of the named NPC’s in pact who don’t count, are already moving up b/c they weren’t aggro’d on those Vets. Thus a bunch of Nobles or other Vet Acolytes are triggered to spawn early or in weird places and they’ll instantly wipe the rest of the pact.
—
The only possible counter to this sort of off-timed spawning, would probably require lots of people in the Zerg to all be running weapons with Pulls & Knockbacks to MOVE those Veterans up the slope and back to the center forcing the Pact Redshirts to follow those Vets and be moved away from more dangerous spawns. Also constantly dropping Reflects & Healing Fields underneath all of the Pact redshirts is crucial (b/c normal heals just have a 5-player cap & apply to PLAYERS first, not NPC’s or Pets). This is an impossible expectation by the way in Zergs b/c there are just so many BAD rangers who mindlessly spam PointBlank Shot without actually changing their own positioning first. (this is true of MOST mmo games with Knockback attacks in them).

Aeros.2046:

The event is simple. My guild runs it all the time with about 20 people and its been months since we last lost. You just have to know what you are doing, have a competent commander calling out the moves and competent people responding to them. The event is not designed like the other temples, where you can just mindlessly ballyhoo up it. You have to strategize, time things, and execute. Also, 8 attempts? Really? Were you trying to do it with just 1 invasion each time? 20-25 people can get all 3 invasion in easily and then you have to be just god aweful bad to fail.

Are you saying that having all 3 arrive at the same time, Increases the Health Pools or Toughness of each REDSHIRT that’s in the Escort? B/c if all it does is increase the Quantity of Pact NPC’s along for the ride, then that doesn’t matter because they will all still get wiped out just as quickly when Nobles & Carriers are allowed anywhere near them. …Just double checking …b/c the rest your post HORRIBLY OVERSIMPLIFIES the entire encounter and isn’t believable unless you had video of your methods to back it up.