Building Wonderful World Bosses

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Posted by: Shriketalon.1937

Shriketalon.1937

Good evening.

The increase in loot has brought a lot of attention to world bosses of late, with a rather high number of complaits about the difficulty (or complete lack thereof) in these battles. There are quite a number of requests to make the battles more epic, but not many discussions about how to go about doing that. Ergo, I thought I would wade into the mix with a ridiculously long post brainstorming better boss basics. As with some of my previous rambles, you can skip down to the infographics included alongside them for a faster read.
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First, let’s brainstorm a bit about mechanics. No matter how beautiful the art assets, the fight all comes down to the nuts and bolts within the beast. Since mechanics make the match, we must first ponder the different ways bosses can function. We all know about phases, changing the pace of a boss fight based upon its health bar, but let us also take a moment to brainstorm a few other pieces of the puzzle.


Weak Points- for massive damage, always know where to hit a giant enemy crab. Weak points provide an excellent way to control player positioning, both to encourage risk and curtail gimmicks, since they force players to remain within a certain zone to actually harm the boss. Weak points work extremely well when mixed with other mechanics; a boss can shift between attacking and defending by hiding and exposing weak points, weak points can break off over time to force players to change strategies, or the points themselves can be contingent upon environmental conditions.

Phases- the second most basic form of boss fights, phases ensure the game periodically changes. A boss can shift strategy on a set interval or in response to its own health to keep cycling between different tactics and keeping players on their feet.

Environmental Attacks- some boss designs look lovely, but they cannot seem to properly attack everything in the vicinity. Rather than rely on 360 degree waves, however, these bosses can be smart and use the terrain to their advantage. Boss attacks can actually originate from the surrounding environment; ceilings can be caved in, trees can be cut down, buildings can be shattered. Flying debris and detritus make great attacks, as do electrified pools, boiling pits, frozen ground, and absurd quantities of ooze.

Firestorm- if you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a fireball. Firestorm bosses exist in a constant state of attack, forcing the players to constantly dodge, dip, dive, duck, and dodge the endless barrage. The bosses themselves are static, but they mix different attack patterns, intensities, and directions to keep the fight mobile.

Multiheaded Foes- bosses can be made of smaller bosses. An easy way to ensure that a boss can fight everyone on the map is to split it into multiple parts, each of which has its own AI and attack patterns. Players will need to slay these parts to defeat the overall boss, and they can become more dangerous as each part is sliced away.

Fortress- bosses can also be made of physical terrain. WvW Sven’s as an excellent demonstration of a structure that can be physically walked upon, yet also targeted and destroyed. Stationary bosses can be built on a massive scale by giving them parts that players must traverse to hack at more vulnerable bits.

Chess master- sometimes the big bad evil guy is merely the figurehead of the legion. Chess master bosses lead an entire army of angry foes, and their “attacks” come from summoned minions and coordinated strikes. It is often best to ensure, however, that players do not have to choose between striking the boss and clearing the cannon fodder at the same time. Human nature will usually lead everyone to fight the boss and no one to bother with the “lesser” task. Instead, phases are highly recommended.

Kaleidoscope- a more frantic form of phases, this boss is constantly changing throughout the fight and using its own form to attack the players. Kaleidoscopic bosses do not gradually increase in power or intensity like phases. Instead, each transformation changes the rules of combat and forces players to adapt.

Full Mobility- sometimes it is best if doom walks the earth. Fully mobile bosses are far more difficult to code than their static counterparts, but they offer unprecedented challenge to the daring players and intrepid developers alike. Creating a colossal creature capable of independent movement can be tricky since one must balance a constantly shifting battlefield to ensure hero are having fun rather than running a tedious marathon. Nonetheless, the best boss concepts demand free and full battlefield mobility.

Setting aside the theorycraft, let’s ponder the ways these can be applied to the current world bosses…

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(edited by Shriketalon.1937)

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Posted by: Shriketalon.1937

Shriketalon.1937

While we are brainstorming (which is code for “please don’t bury this in the Suggestions forum”), we can also ponder future bosses and their twists on the mechanics. It’s rather important to ensure that new boss monsters present something mechanically new and different from the current selection.

To that end, I would suggest six additional types of bosses, expressed by the Corrupted Redwood Shepherd, the Kraken, the Auroch, an Ooze Oligarch, the Echo of Ascalon, and the dreaded Karkamari Dominancy. For insane rantings of a crazy man and/or details, please see the attached file.
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You may notice that the boss list described above is far from perfect, leaving out plenty of good possibilities for monstrous mayhem. There is a reason, however, and that is based upon boss variants. Creatures with similar body structures can use the skeletons and animations of the above bosses with alternate forms and new strategies or environments. Some variants will be extremely similar to the original, while others will appear wildly different yet still save the developers time and energy.

A Jungle Wurm becomes a Plains Wurm or Frost Wurm with a simple reskin. A Kraken’s tentacles can be replaced with carniverous plants to form the Mandragora, the earth elemental fortress can be reforged with guns and metal to create a Dredge Doom Device, or a pearly white statue can be redone as a Shadowed Colossus. Some variants are more exotic; the animations of a boss might be changed, but the underlying style might remain identical, making a new boss easier to design. By using this simple method, every zone can have its own world boss with less effort than designing them all from scratch.
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With the example section of the ramble done, let’s talk about a few general lessons when it comes to boss design and player psychology.

Building a great boss requires knowing your audience and what they enjoy. Unfortunately, MMO players are like a herd of cats, each with contradictory opinions on what direction they should be going. Despite this problem, there are a few general improvements that everyone can enjoy, which we can discuss forthwith…

Elaborate the Introduction
Several bosses have pre events, but these are generally quick affairs that end in a few minutes. Players rarely have any real warning about a world boss threat, relying on external applications and timers to track where to be and what to kill. The challenge should lie in the boss’s power, not remembering the appointment on your schedule.

To counteract this problem, pad the beginning of each fight. Add environmental effects (storms, blizzards, blights, etc) combined with unique events that occur during each boss’s window. More importantly, let participation in these events count towards overall participation against that boss for the reward chest (although the server still needs to win against the beastie before it is provided, of course). This will ensure that even in the worst circumstances (getting mauled in the beginning of the fight and unable to get in any whacks, disconnected, etc), a player putting in effort will still be counted as participating.

Everyone Believes They Are The Hero
Certain boss fights attempt to provide multiple things to do within the battle, creating a larger conflict. The problem, however, is that these optional jobs tend to be…..dull. You cannot expect people to be interested in protecting NPCs halfway across the battlefield when they could be attacking a giant dragon. One job is heroic and unique, the other is peon duty.

Multiple tasks are okay, so long as each is equally epic. Several distinct objectives might be necessary to survive an initial onslaught of a flying dragon, but the eventual rumble with the creature itself should feel heroic for everyone. Also, remember a crucial point: the NPCs should never be more important than the player. Escort quests are reviled for a reason, and watching someone else slay a boss is never as fun as sinking your blade into the heart of the beast.

Look Up More
This game is beautiful and magnificent, but the combat system relies too much on staring at the floor. To raise your player’s enjoyment, lift their vision upwards. Make sure that cues and telegraphs pull your player’s vision to the boss itself, relying far less on red circles on the ground. Supplement your animations with audio cues which trigger if a player is in range, close to, or away from a given attack (this is already in the game; the trebuchets in pvp trigger a warning shout if you’re about to be pulverized). Try to make these cues seamless and immersive (an incoming breath attack is marked by a loud inhaling sound, rather than someone yelling it is about to breath twelve times a fight). Make players embrace the sights and sounds of your bosses in order to fight more effectively, and they’ll soak up the beauty of the battlefield in the process.

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Posted by: Shriketalon.1937

Shriketalon.1937

Continued…

Learn To Tell Time
The current boss design has caused a lot of controversy over guesting, because people have been getting kicked out of their own server trying to participate in events. Some of suggested curtailing or limiting guesting in response, but I disagree. The fault lies somewhere else.

Servers need to synchronize. Implement an exact clock that indicates server time, and make elements conform to its timekeeping. Day and Night shouldn’t radically shift when changing districts or moving from overflow, and for that matter, neither should bosses. Being kicked to overflow will not be an irritation if everyone is fighting a boss at the same time, allowing everyone in every world an equal chance to get in on the action.

Crush Your Players, But Remember That They Are Mercenaries
Respect is earned. If you want your players to participate in an activity, you increase the reward. But if you want your players to enjoy the activity, you have to make them earn their victory. Players do not respect a piñata, no matter how beautiful it might be or how sweet the candy might taste. To make your boss battles epic, you must give them teeth.

At the same time, you have to make sure people have a reason to show up. Let’s face it. We are gold-grubbing, money-hoarding, cash-farming loot fiends. We’re adventurers, and greed comes the job description. If the activity isn’t worth our while, no one is going to care.

To account for these opposing ideals, I propose the following compromise…
-Boss Battles have an ambient effect, A Time For Heroes. While this ambient effect is active, defeat does not break armor and travel to the nearest waypoint is free.
-All boss battles are extremely lethal, and each one can be failed.
-The bonus chest reward is increased to three objects, and can also include rare materials such as lodestones.
-The bonus chest is account bound and resets weekly.

What are the benefits of these effects?

-They form a covenant between developer and players regarding difficulty. Bosses stop flailing like infants and begin slaughtering the unwary, unwise, and unfortunate, yet those deaths do not arbitrarily set players back or break their wallets. Death is the penalty, and there is no need for further punishment, but players must bring their A game if they expect to slay a boss. Each player knows they will probably die a horrible death of screaming agony, but they can throw caution to the wind and give it everything they’ve got.

-By making the reward even greater yet reset weekly, it is okay to fail. Right now, players are constantly trying to grab every daily objective on a shifting time table, and that leads to frustration when things go wrong. If the chest is daily and the boss is hard as hell, there is going to be rage. By easing up on the timetable, however, it is okay for players to not participate sometimes, or to walk away from failure and decide to do better tomorrow.q

When your players worry less about timetables and logistics, they can spend more time living in the moment. When they face difficult but rewarding content, they rise to the occasion. When they seek out and slay the mightiest of foes and bask in the well deserved rewards of the hunt, they will sing their praises of this glorious world.

Thanks for reading! Feel free to provide constructive criticism, or to describe some of your own favorite boss fights of the past and the ways and inner workings that made them wonderful.

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Posted by: FloXun.1456

FloXun.1456

These posts really deserve a read by the developers, it shows you have put a lot of thought into these suggestions.
I would love to see Anet turn the world-boss fights from what they are now into boss fights of epic proportions.

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Posted by: Avalyah.5987

Avalyah.5987

What you did here is really impressive. Let’s not make this topic die, so the developers may see it!

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Posted by: cbabd.8053

cbabd.8053

Really impressive and well-thought through suggestions.

[Gunnar’s Hold] [RPS]
Saphnabylni | Alyquia | Hrafn Halldorsson | Roshanai Abbasi | Aghrama Steamfur

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Posted by: bulyfe.7260

bulyfe.7260

I 50% like, but sill lacking on concept, if you focus in the concept, it will be easier to develop the behavior and therefore less DULL and boring attacks. In some cases you are stating the obvious that a boss will do, in another, you only exchange one monster for another.

For example… take all the time you spend in making all of this “chart” and now, use all those hours per boss fight, and then you will have a strong concept not worth of Burying

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Posted by: Six.8051

Six.8051

You, my new friend, are my hero. Any if not all of these suggestions would make world boss encounters feel less trivial since their current implementation is basically a boring and guaranteed win without the possibility for failure.

Since the game’s release, I’d been thinking of ways to improve these bosses to require more of it’s players than typical dynamic events, and you definitely hit the nail on the head with these ideas. I wholeheartedly support this, and I hope someone from Anet sees this thread because I’d like my game’s world bosses to expect more from me than just following the crowd while beating on a predictable, and therefore unexciting, giant loot pinata.

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Posted by: Aelelan.1639

Aelelan.1639

This is a really nice post. I think it’s pretty important that this be brought up as well because though the changes to the Temple of Grenth show some progress Anet really has a long way to go before we have some truly engaging PvE bosses. A

As it stands, dodging – though it adds a fun timing element to combat – trivializes a lot of mechanics by giving complete immunity. From my experience with the combat I think that making the decision to dodge or not to dodge – which attacks to soak vs. which attacks are really worth your dodge – matter is crucial to creating a boss fight that keeps players making decisions rather than camping on the dodge button.

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Posted by: Karlos.2178

Karlos.2178

I love this thread, the ideas it contains are of the utmost interset.

I’d say, in your analysis of the dragon champions, one could say that the Claw of Jormag already fits the bill (the pre-event involves him throwing down crystals everywhere that must be destroyed, yada yada, then it involves some kind of lair phase with his barriers, and then it falls near the lake, and must be “melee’d”). It highlights even more tragically where Tequatl and the Shatterer are lacking.

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Posted by: Grandmaster.2683

Grandmaster.2683

Dev’s, 2 steps:

1. Read it

2. DO IT!

Additions like these, to the bosses, should not just be improvements. It should be a “Must have”!!

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Posted by: pmnt.4067

pmnt.4067

Just came to say that the Behemoth in the infographic looks like a Haunter

Great and well-thought suggestions.

I can’t wait until ANet releases the game promoted in the manifesto.
Until that, I’ll play GW2.

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Posted by: Jamica.1267

Jamica.1267

This makes me as excited to play GW2 as the trailers did before release. It sounds really fun.

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Posted by: Lillia.1034

Lillia.1034

Just gotta say, love the Gundam Wing references in the Inquest Golem.

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Posted by: CtrlShiftGo.7962

CtrlShiftGo.7962

I’m quite impressed, just your description was enough to make me excited. I’m curious to see what the devs have to say about this.

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Posted by: LostInSmoke.2590

LostInSmoke.2590

This is the best post/idea I’ve heard on world bosses, ever.

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Posted by: dronzer.8392

dronzer.8392

very impressive and detailed post, can clearly see your passion for the game!

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Posted by: Victoitor.2917

Victoitor.2917

Great ideas. I also hope for a better challenge on world bosses. They are too easy.

Raimundo Faztudo (Human Engineer) – Current WvW
Mr Tauser (Char Warrior) – Current PvE
[CATZ] – HoD

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Posted by: ryaaan.5071

ryaaan.5071

“Players do not respect a piñata, no matter how beautiful it might be or how sweet the candy might taste”

This, I don’t want to stand there swinging blindly until the candy drops. I want dynamic!

All I’m asking for is two things;

1) Tell me when a boss event is up or about to start
Do this through NPCs, through increasing the range on the event state interface (the brown box at top right), through larger pre-events etc.

2) Make me move
Make me dodge and make me use my skills effectively. Make me respond to the boss “he’s removed all conditions, now use ‘on my mark’ again”.

I do however have the utmost faith in ArenaNet, responding to the fans feedback is something they have done in the past.

N.B King Toad has been the best boss in the game so far.

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Posted by: morrock.8629

morrock.8629

Love the ideas. I wish boss fights were tough like this, and unique. I want to actually lose a boss fight for once. Grenth is pretty fun because of this, but he relies too much on whoever has aggro not being an idiot and pulling him to the NPC. Boss fights should fail because of one bad player.

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Posted by: Shizune Fujibayashi.4813

Shizune Fujibayashi.4813

Most of this seems like a decent idea, but I’m not too sure about the weekly chest. It sounds to me like that’ll just end up with everyone zerging the bosses on Saturday and nobody doing them at all by the time Wednesday rolls around.

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Posted by: Toxophile.6215

Toxophile.6215

Holy crap. How long did this take to put together? Great post though. I especially liked the part where you ask the developers to design a game WE want to play, not a game THEY think we should want to play. Okay, you didn’t come right out and say that, but it’s there. And the dev’s should certainly do a better job of making the fights more challenging in way’s other than increasing it’s health and making it one-shot you even harder if you don’t dodge.

I also love the part where they need to make different goals of a boss fight more interesting. Like you say, no one wants to guard the stupid npc’s, we want to fight the boss! But if the fight to protect the NPC’s is fun AND is required to complete the overall event, people will do it.

I would love to see the AI get better, allowing a bos to move independently, using terrain and LoS to it’s advantage. How cool would it be for a boss to dodge your big attack?! Or to move into a narrow corridor to defend itself more easily?

All in all, ANet is doing pretty well as far as I am concerned, but I want this game to grow exponentially, and making the math behind the game more engaging will draw players like flies. Let’s hope they start making rewards equal to the task (and no more punitive freaking RNG!!!!).

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Posted by: ChiefSlaya.9810

ChiefSlaya.9810

How difficult would it be to implement… a moving boss (on a specific looping path – or not looping, could end up as a challenge to kill is before it reaches its target) that is also a “fortress” style boss? Something like a giant char war machine, or rampant Asura creation that is closing in on destroying a town, and players have to climb up it, destroying power nodes along the way, while it fights back mostly with knockbacks and AoEs that are difficult to dodge because of limited standing space, and can knock the player off the boss.
I don’t know how well the GW2 physics system could deal with that…

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Posted by: SchuMidas.4782

SchuMidas.4782

Anet should hire you ,
dev should be ashamed

SchuMidas – Guardian
Guild Pro Baddies [Pro] @ Tarnished Coast

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Posted by: Shriketalon.1937

Shriketalon.1937

Just came to say that the Behemoth in the infographic looks like a Haunter

Hmm. Yes. Well.

Let’s just say that what I lack in artistic talent and basic integrity, I make up for in clipart thievery and “borrowed” sprite photoshopping. Dragon Quest, Might and Magic, Megaman, DnD monster manuals, prior Guild Wars concept art, and miscellaneous images from Google searches may also be victims in this incident.

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Posted by: Kain Francois.4328

Kain Francois.4328

I think most of all, what a World Boss needs should be more “raid” style mechanics, where large groups of 40 people need to spread out, rather than clumping on the boss.

Let’s take the Risen Priestess of Lyssa world boss for example. Players must split into 3 groups, for 3 separate events distant from each other.

Why not expand on that concept a little more? Turn it into one big event so EVERYONE gets credit, and give every distinct roles besides DPSing the boss itself.

For Tequatl, one group charges the cannon, but to do so must collect essences very far from the cannon itself. Another group must defend the cannon from a hoarde of risen attacking it (if destroyed, must repair it.) The third group must escort a group of Hylek who venoms will stun Tequatl, leaving him susceptible to the Cannon.

Players must protect the Cannon, Essence-makers, and Hylek. If all 3 are destroyed at the same time, Tequatl fails, Risen Hylek begin to invade and the island is corrupted with the green “Zhaitan” aura seen in Cursed Shore.

What will improve world events and satisfy players who want raids are events we can not only fail, but also the designation of roles. Severs should be expected to organize into things like “Team 1, Team 2, and Team 3”, and they should be pushed for failing to do so.

A world boss should be difficult to defeat because it invites the entire server to fight it. Failure to complete it should grant a 5 minute timer as opposed to 3 hours, much like failure to complete Grenth/

Because it should be difficult to co-ordinate, promoting commander squads and teamwork, the rewards should justify the efforts. Rather than a rare, they should be exotics (including precursors). While this may seem like a stretch, most exotics only cost 2g or so, which most level 80 characters have no trouble earning within a single hour anyways.

My vision for a promotesrevised Tequatl not only promotes a responsible use of the Commander tag, pleases those wishing for raids, but also promotes team work, and strategy for the entire server!

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Posted by: Clepto.6381

Clepto.6381

I support this thread. The devs could learn a few things from games like Wildstar, and Neverwinter.

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Posted by: orogenesis.6925

orogenesis.6925

I’m 100% here for Karkamari Dominancy. Let’s make it a world boss Anet! Or even a mini game, that would be amazing.

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Posted by: Shaeyl.7064

Shaeyl.7064

Anet should hire Shriketalon.

“First of all: I am tired. I am true of heart!
And also: You are tired. You are true of heart!”

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Posted by: BonesAndHubris.3895

BonesAndHubris.3895

Anet should hire Shriketalon.

A million times this.

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Posted by: Dietrik.9718

Dietrik.9718

I approve these incredible ideas.

Anet + Shriketalon = Fireworks.

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Posted by: panoramic.4871

panoramic.4871

Thank you! These changes sound perfect and addresses my personal complaints about the current pinatas world bosses.

(edited by panoramic.4871)

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Posted by: SkeeLd.2164

SkeeLd.2164

Oh my god, I think I love you OP. If ANet sees this thread and takes into account everything that was said in those first few posts, World Bosses will be the next new awesome huge thing everyone will be pumped for. Holy kitten that Kraken fight would be SO AWESOME if it was in Southsun Cove on the big gloomy beach right to the east of the northwestern WP.

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Posted by: Bajenalex.3405

Bajenalex.3405

Wow, what a nice article. I think Anet definitely know how to make these kinds of stuff but just lack the time (read prioritations). However, your article brings it up and stirs the topic around a little. Good job!

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Posted by: JubeiTM.5763

JubeiTM.5763

The reason I don’t follow world bosses anymore isn’t the loot and the time I waste, but the complete lack of entertainment. Sure, the first visual impact with a dragon/Bahamoth was mind-blowing. But after that, nothing changed. No real challenge, just same grinding monotone mechanics.

These ideas must be implemented ASAP!

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Posted by: LokiAlpha.8164

LokiAlpha.8164

I like your suggestion, I really do. But for everyone who is saying to implement these mechanics, this is only a temporary fix to your much desired need of exciting world boss content. Why, you ask? World bosses are not boring because of the fight itself. The mechanics in each world boss are actually very solid. Yes, they could be better, but that’s NOT the issue. Is it the challenge? Do players find that not dying during a world boss makes it too easy? No, that’s not it. Even upping the challenge, in the end, you’ll only see more deaths, and that doesn’t change the fact that the boss gets downed easily. What is it then?

Well, let me just explain something, I’ve been playing since launch. I was actually level 80 within the first week of the game’s release. I fought a lot of bosses before people knew the mechanics, or had good gear. These world boss fights were epic, and amazing, and there were only a handful of people doing them at the time. We died. A lot. We struggled to down the boss in any reasonable time(45+ minute boss fights on Jormag). So, why is it, that all of a sudden the boss fights are boring?

It’s not the mechanics of the fight that make world bosses boring, nor the difficulty. It’s the fact that every boss fight has a slew of over-geared, over-experienced players doing said boss fights. In fact, the ONLY way to make the current boss fights fun would be to get rid of the rewards for them. The only “reward” you would need is the fact that you completed the event. What would this do? It would lower the people who do the event DRASTICALLY. It would also make the events more challenging because of the drastic player decrease. However, the issue then would be that no one would want the challenge because it isn’t rewarding. Then what can you do? It’s a never-ending problem that you can’t fix.

Now, to the point of making new world boss fights. Honestly, the only thing you’d get from a new world boss is new mechanics. It’s only a small time fix. You’ll go in, you’ll have LOTS of fun….Then after a week? It’ll be like the rest of them. You’ll be farming it easily with the rest of the server.

In my opinion, ANet does not need to waste resources on a one-time bang of fun, and instead needs to continue to focus on 5-man content. Hell, they could even add in 10-15man content and it’d probably be fun. They need to remake the current dungeons, and keep developing new ones. I have yet to do the new Flame and Frost content, not having time to play, but I’m hoping it is VERY challenging and fun, and not a one-time bang for my buck.

TL;DR World bosses can’t be fixed to be fun, and adding any more would only create more farm content. Instead, ANet needs to keep focusing on group content.

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Posted by: Chamone.6890

Chamone.6890

Disregard LokiAlpha, World bosses can and should be fun.

One of the reasons they’re not fun is that they’re farmed by hundreds of people. One of the main reasons that they’re farmable is that they’re constantly on a really short, really predictable respawn timer, and everyone just farms the known boss spawn points. Also, there’s no penalty or anything stopping you farming the same boss over and over and over.

If the spawn points changed, there was some kind of daily / weekly / monthly limit to the number of times you could kill the same boss, and the respawn times were much less predictable, this would help with the farming aspect.

Making them challenging and possible to fail would also help a lot.

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Posted by: Charm.6085

Charm.6085

Very well thought out and done ideas. I would love it if Anet could improve the bosses in interesting ways like this. Bump.

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Posted by: Claudius.5381

Claudius.5381

Wow, what a great post. You got everything right, even the thing about rewards. I really hope ArenaNet hires you…

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Posted by: LokiAlpha.8164

LokiAlpha.8164

Chamone, no one has asked to disregard anyone else in this thread, and everyone is entitled to an opinion, so please don’t ask people to disregard an opinion.

On that note, I actually agree with what you’ve stated. In counter to what Shriketalon posted, you mentioned that the world bosses are farmed due to the predictability of when they spawn. However, Shriketalon only stated that they should all be on the same timer on all servers to prevent guesting to servers and kicking other people out of servers when attempting to do the event.

I agree that putting the events on a random timer as opposed to a specific one, it would decrease the amount of players farming the boss. However, this is a VERY social game. As soon as one person starts fighting it on that server, his guild knows. His guild sends messages to their friends and other guilds. In the end, it’s the same result, hundreds of over-geared people doing the same event that everyone knows how to beat, and thus bringing no challenge nor fun to the fight.

Again, adding new world bosses would only create a small time fix, and then add problems later on. It would not fix the current issue with world bosses.

As to the limit you suggested to the bosses, I believe ANet does not want to force anyone to do any one thing, or not be able to do any one thing. They want the player to be able to play the game how they see fit, with moderation. I, however, do not speak for ANet, but I have been following this game for a really long time, and I know that limiting the player in any significant way like disabling the ability to do world bosses on the pure notion of the fact that you’ve already killed the boss once today would not go over well.

They already have a sort of soft limit on it, but that won’t stop people from farming it regardless of the soft cap.

The best world boss they can provide is a one-time event, which didn’t “roll” over very well with the players. Some people who did the event didn’t get rewarded, some people who didn’t do the event got rewarded, there was heavy lag across all servers, and in the end was very upsetting for both the players and developers. The next event they focused on group content, going into an instance and taking down a “boss”. This event was MUCH better and well-received by players across the board. Although, it wasn’t near as epic as the previous event, the point was that it was FUN, and not a task / chore.

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Posted by: Jalad Lantana.3027

Jalad Lantana.3027

You might as well blue sky how every single mob in this game fights.

There are reasons why programmers seem to home in on some basic metas in boss design in every MMO out there including GW2.

Yea, we get it, no one likes pinatas, but seriously, given that most boss fights involve large numbers of players, making them stationery drastically cuts down the position information that has to be exchanged between the clients and the server. If a boss moves, that traffic explodes. I doubt you will see moving bosses until there is a breakthrough in client server optimization or bandwidth.

The OP correctly outlined what the problem is with secondary goals off to the side and a distance from the main sexy goal. No one wants to be doing the scut work killing peons in some out of the way corner, when they could be pew-pewing the boss.

Unfortunately several responders went off on tangents suggesting more side goals which I think is always a very bad idea.

Right now the biggest issue with world boss fights is the timing one, all worlds are different, which leads to timers and everyone going to the next world event regardless of server. The second big issue now is that with a huge mob there, tactics, and dodging go out the window. When Maw is overwhelmed now with a ton of players, it dies so fast there is not enough time for the red circles to appear. Scaling seems to work up to a point, but that point seems to have been passed with timers.

With such huge groups, lag is very bad and tough combat would be impossible in such lag.

So far the best suggestion is to put all worlds on one timer, and then world boss fights would be less stressed, and more fun.

HOD
Guardian / Ranger / Mesmer / Necro / Warrior
Played since 1st online ‘demo’ months before the BWEs.

(edited by Jalad Lantana.3027)

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Posted by: Merope.1280

Merope.1280

I don’t have even the slightest bit of hope that something as cool as this will be implemented earlier than 3+ years if ever (i’m going with never).

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Posted by: Sensei.7420

Sensei.7420

This is fantastic. This is how I imagined it would be from the start, before I actually fought the bosses. :O

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Posted by: nethykins.7986

nethykins.7986

1 – This is amazing
2 – You should be hired by the dungeon dev’s as a consultant.
3 – I’m aware than these changes will pretty much be out the the grasp of ANet’s limitations, more on tech limitations than effort and time required. I know you hinted at new things being added, but I’d really, really (can’t stress “Really” enough) like to hear your ideas on the dungeons as they stand now and what you would do to change them.

AC was only changed recently. It isn’t so much of a slog as it used to be but it still sucks in the grand scheme of dungeon design. What would you change in the other dungeons and, from what changes they made in AC, would you say that they had failed or succeeded in what they planned to do? (They stated they make the dungeon “more fun” and We’ve yet to see any changes for the next set dungeon, or an ETA on whether these changes will even be made near this year.)

(edited by nethykins.7986)

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Posted by: Saitam.9340

Saitam.9340

FANTASTIC posts, man! Very well thought out. Love your descriptions and ideas. Arenanet, hire this player!

-Mædre Valero, Guardian, Tarnished Coast.
Member of Remnants of Hope [HOPE]

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Posted by: Rage Tiger.4019

Rage Tiger.4019

Would be interesting to see a boss that’s so random no one will know when it will spawn or even where. I’m thinking along the lines of the Death Wing pre-release event before Cataclysm. He was so random, different servers had him appear in different areas and different times. I would like to see such a boss that will cause the zone he’s in and the surrounding zones to become contested so people can’t just “show up” for the fight.

For LokiAlpha, to remove the reward at the end will not make the event any better or more fun. It would just make people not do them. For Frozen Maw, for instance, only the first part might be done solely cause of the Renown that’s right there. You need incentive to get people to do something. The sense of accomplishment is nice, but it will not get people to stay interested.

I do believe a monthly limit, per account, for the number of times you can get a chest from a certain event needs to be in place. There should be a tracker of some kind to let the player know where they are on that limit.

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Posted by: Rezz.8019

Rezz.8019

Decent and thoughtful post…. but:

No matter how great or fun or amazing any boss or dungeon or event is, in time, it will become a boring grind. What makes the bosses, or anything else truly interesting is that they’re new. It’s a challenge, different tactics have to be thought of. Bosses like Alpha, Jormag, Butcher in HotW, even Fire Elemental were extremely fun at first, when mechanics and strategies were not standardized.

The only thing that can be done would be adding new bosses, dungeons, events every month or so. And that would bring A LOT of new people in game, as it would be something unique in the world of gaming. However, it would cost a lot initially and no company is brave enough of taking such step.

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Posted by: Starscream.6498

Starscream.6498

Your ideas are simply amazing. This is all I’ve hoped for should they ever redesign the current fights (which they should, it needs to be more engaging and difficult).

The ONLY problem I see with this is the FPS drops everyone already has in the current fights. It will make it near impossible to react properly for some players. I believe reducing the cap of players in a zone required for overflow servers would help, but from what I’ve heard this is quite taxing for their hardware.

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Posted by: Kalean Senretsu.6351

Kalean Senretsu.6351

To the top with you!

This post would’ve made me thrice as happy had it been a dev saying it, you know ;P

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Posted by: Rage Tiger.4019

Rage Tiger.4019

Starscream got it right. Some have learned that during the second part of the Shatter event the fewer people doing that, the faster it gets done. So not as much is needed to be gathered. Hate to say it but bosses should be scaled up based on the number of players actively fighting it. More health, deals more damage, and “for the fun of it” a massive one-hit kill ability that has little to no warning to dodge roll.