Guild Wars 2

Hello,

So I do open world PvE a lot, more than anything else in the game. Before I get into this discussion please watch these two videos.

1. A typical world boss fight. This one is the final boss of ogre wars but sums up the experience pretty well. People standing around, auto attacking. Many of whom are lagging. Particle effects lighting up the sky. Everyone being pretty chill and just not doing anything as they casually attack.

http://www.twitch.tv/deified123/c/2665505

2. Karka Queen fight. This represents a small portion of the open world events that are actually hard and failable (such as grenth temple). What do we see in this video? Problems that represent Anets new take on open world events. When I was doing the pre events I had about 15 with me at the time. Once the queen herself popped, the online timers kicked in. At this point the number of people nearly trippled before we got her first HP bar down. This combined with the particle effects ( i know they are getting "fixed, well see how it does though) and the overflow of monsters in the area (we had tons of veterans, hatchlings, and all these other mobs that would do insane amounts of damage or CC attacking us and doing all these crazy AoEs as we were fighting the Queen). We eventually fail and people wonder no one likes this island or the event. You’ll see in the video tons of dead players just standing there dead. This is because players in this game have been conditioned in open world bosses to be lazy, to expect it to die and for other players to rez them. Once they die they sit there with the event scaled up with them and not doing anything. The entire zerg had died and only 5-10 had rezzed. It’s despicable.

http://www.twitch.tv/deified123/c/2665462

Anet please figure out how to do world bosses well before releasing anymore. IF you do release more YOU MUST fix them all or increase the reward of the new one heavily. Two rares wont cut it. If people can be lazy and auto attack one boss or challenge themselves with another boss and get a small increase in reward, people will opt to do the lazy one.

It’s hard to balance and make boss fights interesting when you have zergs of at least 50 people hitting a boss. They weren’t made for that to happen.

Would be cool if there were more group events like Blightwater Shatterstrike guild challenge, but it would be way too easy to grief imo.

Esplen.3940:

It’s hard to balance and make boss fights interesting when you have zergs of at least 50 people hitting a boss. They weren’t made for that to happen.

That is why it is a problem. Anet is thinking like that. World Bosses aren’t dungeon fights. They shouldn’t be. Right now they are simply dungeon fights with lots of people.

World bosses should include the entire zone. Multiple events that lead to the ease of killing or act of killing a world boss. The trick is not only to balance it with zergs in mind, but give them incentives to separate.

Here are two I can give examples of.

Karka Queen- Make it so theres a point in defending the camps during Queen. Defend the northern most camp and consortium NPCs who actually kill stuff run towards Steam camp and set up along the walls and fire at enemy NPCs and they acutally do damage to help players get rid of all the extra NPCs. They also do damage to queen if there are no other enemies around. Then if you defend captains retreat a boat spawns and players can then fire the boats cannons onto karka queen.

Shadow Behemoth- Defend the monastery and the will send casters to the area above the shack in the middle. These will deflect shadow behemoths AoE drops that he reigns down from above (buff these to do considerable amount of damage to the front line fights as they hit). You need to defend the casters from waves of shadow enemies. Then to the west you have the seraph set up catapults to reign fire upon shadow behemoth. Defending these from centaurs. Then to the north at the garrison you can defend that against waves of shadow creatures and it will send Seraph Reinforcements to each area to help players fight (they would actually be useful).

The trick is to convince players to spread out. Each of those areas above would receive the same exact rewards as the frontline fighters.

World Bosses are WORLD bosses. They should heavily involved the ZONE/WORLD as a whole instead of smushing everything together in one area. This includes not only events but things in the open world. Cannons, interactable objects, etc.

Part of the problem is that most world bosses don’t move much at all. There is also not much incentive to scatter and dodge for almost all of the bosses…. really you don’t have to pay attention

If you made the bosses able to move around quite a bit, and deal a lot of high damage AoE attacks vs a zerg then it would be more interesting…. or even make the boss teleport around and randomly attack someone from behind…. it’s up to the players to be alert enough to dodge at the last moment if it teleports behind you.

I think the best method would be to have the boss deal damage according to your real level, not effective level (it wouldn’t be 5k a hit from SB to a level 80, because your effective level is still 14, but you have more stats, so you should take more damage) or make their attacks be % based.

I agree that the world bosses are a bit limited in play, but there are ways to make it better.
Shatterer: let his spikes he summons be aoe and hit a group hard. atm the zerg just stands at his right side and his attacks can be ignored mostly, he somtimes summons a veteran but thats it. if that spike would big aoe hit players, it would make you run around more.

shadow behemoth: should use a new attack like diablo2 Andariel’s poison spray. moving his hand in a curved motion from right to left spitting out black stuff. and let him summon a wave of black stuff like claw of jormag’s ice wave, to knockback everyone back in front of him (for if they go all stand behind him)

stuff like that, to make the need to move around more. and have its timer set to every 6 hours with an event chain from all over the zone lead up to it, but that would also need to make the meta event be visible from whole map, not only the small region the event is in.

i agree, world bosses should be more active events around the zone, and i dont mean it summons more adds.

This aint gonna happen because gw2 caters to casuals. And 90% of them can’t dodge at the right time nor run away from damage, sadly.

I do with they made the whole game harder and more rewarding. Ah well. Will have to wait for some other game.

matjazmuhic.1649:

This aint gonna happen because gw2 caters to casuals. And 90% of them can’t dodge at the right time nor run away from damage, sadly.

I do with they made the whole game harder and more rewarding. Ah well. Will have to wait for some other game.

It’s slowly happening. Inverse power creep (power creep on mobs) is kicking in.

matjazmuhic.1649:

This aint gonna happen because gw2 caters to casuals. And 90% of them can’t dodge at the right time nor run away from damage, sadly.

I do with they made the whole game harder and more rewarding. Ah well. Will have to wait for some other game.

I argue the opposite, people don´t learn or care about dodging etc. because they have no need for it.

keep the current versions except increase scale limits to infinity to make them more difficult.

Bring in instanced versions @ there spawn points to keep people out in the world of more difficult content in 5 man form and the infinite scaling version so a whole guild could take part, relevant achievements for levels of scaling difficulty, standardize the loot in chests as per normal to not alienate small guilds and have them award influence too for another way to gain loot and influence to spend from the events for small guilds, flat influence gain of a respectable amount as well.

I think that even if ANet changed the mechanics of the world boss fights, the majority of the population would simply skip it and do the easy ones.

The Claw of Jormag fight introduces some “anti-zerg” mechanics. There is frozen ground that you can’t just rush through and attack until certain conditions are met whether it is breaking the shield during phase I or defending the golems from crystals during phase II.

The majority of people hate the Claw fight, and most won’t even show up until phase II. The reason being “it takes too long.” If ANet introduces some of the suggestions above to other bosses, it would make the fights longer and no one will bother doing them.

Would you spend 10-15 minutes killing a world boss for a guaranteed rare and a chest, or run a dungeon in that amount of time for enough money to buy that rare plus have spare change? As great as some of the ideas above are, people will always gravitate toward the best return in time investment, even if it means a dull fight. The community wants things easy, and they want it now.

The encounters are too easy – everyone can just ball in one place , randomly spam their 1-5 skills and still win.

And the particle effects , so much effects that you can barely see the boss.

And the lag.

I think that the pre events are where the challeges should be implemented and that the reward from killing the boss should increase based on how many pre events you were involved in.

The world boss itself cannot be made challenging due to the number of participants involved (the lag alone makes a dodging requirement onerous).

mtpelion.4562:

I think that the pre events are where the challeges should be implemented and that the reward from killing the boss should increase based on how many pre events you were involved in.

The world boss itself cannot be made challenging due to the number of participants involved (the lag alone makes a dodging requirement onerous).

Yeah the lag really makes it hard for Anet to take advantage of the dodging requirement. That is why I am supporting the concept of involving multiple areas of the map that are far away to eventually lead to the death of the boss. For example with the SB example i gave. You had the catapult, garrison, casters, and frontline (infront of the boss/attacking it directly). Someone can just defend one of those areas and defeat the boss. Of course it wont be as fast, but it should be doable. Like if someone just stands there and defends the catapults while everything else fails and no one is at the frontline, then it can succeed but it takes times.

I also support rewarding people for doing pre events more, they’re the unsung heroes of the open world haha.

On NSP, we never fail Karka… even one night when a ton of Reddit nubs showed up and made EVERY event take 2x as long as it should have. (This is relevant because a lot of Anet’s devs rolled on NSP so it’s going to influence their perspective). …..with KQ, we’re slowly but surely conditioning more players to TURN AROUND and LOOK BEHIND THEM to see those insanely overtuned Crazed Windriders basically “RailGun” sniping the entire backline support for 10k damage per shot. The more of us we can get with reflects & Pulling Physics (Especially stupid worthless Rangers who only run Bows & Bear…. to instead put an Axe in their Offhand once in a while and hit the #5 key while standing front of some Eles & Engineers…) which just destroys those things in record time.

But yeah… if I could boil this all down to one thing I see more than anywhere else… it’s Rangers or atleast “Ranged Attackers” in general going to these events when they’re too lazy to learn how to actually play with skill or atleast read the Map Chat once in a while… These tougher ones like Grenth, Balth, & KQ many times will actually succeed, or fail depending on just the sheer ratio of how many competent or incompetent Rangers you have b/c D.E’s are basically the last refuge for the 2nd worst balanced Class in the game…. of which there are lots and lots of them attending usually.

I Hate making tutorials, but If I have to, I’ll start making some for the Ranger forums which none of these people actually READ, ….but then when people see these awful players being awful, maybe they can send them a Mail linking to those tutorials? I dunno… It’s really hard to pinpoint where the failure on this issue lies, if it’s purely with Anet, or just the kind of player that Ranged/Ranger tends to attract?

ilr.9675:

On NSP, we never fail Karka… even one night when a ton of Reddit nubs showed up and made EVERY event take 2x as long as it should have. (This is relevant because a lot of Anet’s devs rolled on NSP so it’s going to influence their perspective). …..with KQ, we’re slowly but surely conditioning more players to TURN AROUND and LOOK BEHIND THEM to see those insanely overtuned Crazed Windriders basically “RailGun” sniping the entire backline support for 10k damage per shot. The more of us we can get with reflects & Pulling Physics (Especially stupid worthless Rangers who only run Bows & Bear…. to instead put an Axe in their Offhand once in a while and hit the #5 key while standing front of some Eles & Engineers…) which just destroys those things in record time.

But yeah… if I could boil this all down to one thing I see more than anywhere else… it’s Rangers or atleast “Ranged Attackers” in general going to these events when they’re too lazy to learn how to actually play with skill or atleast read the Map Chat once in a while… These tougher ones like Grenth, Balth, & KQ many times will actually succeed, or fail depending on just the sheer ratio of how many competent or incompetent Rangers you have b/c D.E’s are basically the last refuge for the 2nd worst balanced Class in the game…. of which there are lots and lots of them attending usually.

I Hate making tutorials, but If I have to, I’ll start making some for the Ranger forums which none of these people actually READ, ….but then when people see these awful players being awful, maybe they can send them a Mail linking to those tutorials? I dunno… It’s really hard to pinpoint where the failure on this issue lies, if it’s purely with Anet, or just the kind of player that Ranged/Ranger tends to attract?

That’s the problem, I can’t control what these people do and I can’t gather enough people that I know personally to work together. This coupled with timers and randoms it becomes very hard to control a zerg and get people to play it.

I really like the idea of events popping up all over the zone so you have to scatter. The events should be pretty hard. Like, explorable dungeon hard. But not to unreasonable proportions. It could be defend missions, takeover mission, escort mission etc. The world boss events would take longer and be much harder, so of course the rewards should be much greater, so that people would still want to do them. Another important part of this is that the world boss events should be failable. None of them are at this point. Except some of the ones in Orr. The Claw Of Jormag is the “hardest” dragon fight simply because it takes the longest. You might die a few times, but the event will allways succeed.

With failable world boss events player would have to join in and do their part, cause if they don’t there’ll be no loot at all. If the event fails, the boss would simply return from where it came leaving parts of the zone damaged. Players would then have to take back/repair these places before the world boss could start again. I’d say the World boss events should take around 30 minutes or so to complete. With various objectives along the way. A suggestion for the rewards could be like a guaranteed rare + a chest with random loot + an ekstra reward between which you will have to choose. The choices could be something like: A bunch of karma, some extra gold, an unidentified dye or a bag with some lvl-appropiate crafting materials, etc (you get my point). Basically give the player incentives to want to do the world boss even though they get longer. I would certainly do these events. Cause right now, I can’t log on without being like: “I don’t really wanna do these event’s cause they’re so boring and I probably won’t get any good loot anyways. But dammit what IF I got that exotic today?! (Which you never do)”. This is a problem because you’re becoming a mindless drone who is forcing yourself to play content that you aren’t really enjoying. With these changes the world events would feel much more rewarding and fun to play.

That’s my two cents.

For the record, quite a few world boss pre-events can fail. The golem can fail, the fire elemental can fail (the CLEAN-5000 gets reprogrammed by the Inquest and you have to destroy it), and there are a lot of others that could theoretically do so even though I’ve never seen it because there’s usually at least a few people hanging around while the window’s open.

OP, I suggest that you post this on the “suggestion” forum as well

Kurakura.7281:

Part of the problem is that most world bosses don’t move much at all. There is also not much incentive to scatter and dodge for almost all of the bosses…. really you don’t have to pay attention

If you made the bosses able to move around quite a bit, and deal a lot of high damage AoE attacks vs a zerg then it would be more interesting…. or even make the boss teleport around and randomly attack someone from behind…. it’s up to the players to be alert enough to dodge at the last moment if it teleports behind you.

The problem with that is once you get so many people in one place, it gets less and less viable to actually play that way. The boss ends up looking like the .gif my signature links to,* and the ground is coated with effects and various hostile and friendly AOE markers, which normally might convey useful information but in masses just cause a horrible mess. On top of that, even if your own computer can handle its end, the servers don’t necessarily feel the same and things start to lag. This, even though a lot of what you’re fighting may be literally invisible, which is its own issue.

So for one thing we’d need to be able to see everything that could possibly be relevant to us at the time, which would likely make existing performance issues worse. Then, we need to be able to see it clearly instead of just a sea of sparkles and overlapping circles, and finally we need the game/server to be responsive enough that when we try to dodge, use a skill, etc. it will actually happen on time.

*Even in that fight, I was downed twice by ’malchor’s tears’ or something along those lines: the first time because they were literally invisible and I never saw any effect hit me at all, and the second because they were one of so many effects moving down my screen, most of which weren’t even harmful to me (i.e. came from allies), that recognizing I was in danger and dodging just weren’t going to happen in the time it took them to streak down from somewhere vaguely upward and hit me. I’d be in the process of pressing the keys and maybe my character would twitch… oh, downed, too late. So people just got downed, and we revived them, because that was as much of a strategy as the game allowed at that point.

faintsonata.5621:

The Claw of Jormag fight introduces some “anti-zerg” mechanics. There is frozen ground that you can’t just rush through and attack until certain conditions are met whether it is breaking the shield during phase I or defending the golems from crystals during phase II.

These aren’t ‘anti-zerg’ mechanics, they’re just delays. Zerg or no, you still have to do the same things.

People don’t want to fail. That’s why nobody does Balthazar.

Tom Gore.4035:

People don’t want to fail. That’s why nobody does Balthazar.

Nobody wants to waste time on an event that has a very good chance of failing when they can actually be doing something fun is what you mean, right?

Dodging at the right time its not a proper mechanic for zerg fights. Not everyone can afford a 30 ping connection and not everyone lives in the same zone close to the servers. I can never go lower than 450-500 ping and on average I play with 900 ping. I prefer mechanics like Jornag’s Claw (withouth the safe spots) where you have to move, soak damage, heal, attack the pillars to protect the bots,… something else than pure autoattack that does not resolve in a devastating dodge-or-die attack.

rizzo.1079:

Tom Gore.4035:

People don’t want to fail. That’s why nobody does Balthazar.

Nobody wants to waste time on an event that has a very good chance of failing when they can actually be doing something fun is what you mean, right?

Balthazar is actually very fun, and since the mobs scale you end up getting heavy moldy bags (rather than just large), t6 mats and in the two times that I’ve done it since Dragon Bash, I had holo wings drop I think three times.

I see it a bit like Arah, once you get the pre events done (though Angaria is pretty awesome), you get to the main thing and you will be swimming in loot by the time it’s done.

Algreg.3629:

matjazmuhic.1649:

This aint gonna happen because gw2 caters to casuals. And 90% of them can’t dodge at the right time nor run away from damage, sadly.

I do with they made the whole game harder and more rewarding. Ah well. Will have to wait for some other game.

I argue the opposite, people don´t learn or care about dodging etc. because they have no need for it.

That was MY first thought, as well. There are CHAMPIONS that are very nicely done (the Risen Priesti (Priestesses?) and Baron in Orr, for example) whose AI use their territories very well (albeit, still not the entire region).

One of the things I hated about the only other MMO I ever played (DDO) was beating on a bag of hitpoints because that’s the only way they knew to make them difficult… ditto GW2 with open world PVE bosses.

I thought King King was a nice touch during Temple of Lyssa event. That kept people on the move and on alert.

Yeah you don’t mess with the King Kong.

Mesket.5728:

Dodging at the right time its not a proper mechanic for zerg fights. Not everyone can afford a 30 ping connection and not everyone lives in the same zone close to the servers. I can never go lower than 450-500 ping and on average I play with 900 ping. I prefer mechanics like Jornag’s Claw (withouth the safe spots) where you have to move, soak damage, heal, attack the pillars to protect the bots,… something else than pure autoattack that does not resolve in a devastating dodge-or-die attack.

Exactly. I dont think these events should be failable based on if players die while fighting him (which happens in that karka vid I posted because everyone died and just sat there). Instead, as I said earlier, make the event spawned multiple events throughout the entire map that leads to the death/success of the boss. The event should be failable upon if those events fail. Not if players don’t dodge a one hit AoE attack and defeat the boss in a time limit. That will never work.

Sometimes the escort will just fail completely on its own from what I’ve seen a few times. As in we actually had MORE people there… and we did everything exactly the way we always do it. Except sometimes the Aggro just randomly locks onto the pact who aren’t even in range, and they get hit by this Looping Shadowstep or something. …this happened today & I rewatched this video a dozen times to figure out what was different in it:

http://youtu.be/F-tR5U29Xms

…I’ll be danged if I could figure out what it was. Culling basically makes it impossible to even find out I guess, but I still think it comes right down to the AI just being needlessly random and ignoring 20 or 30 players closer to it in order to insta-gib the Pact…

Geekfox.4267:

I thought King King was a nice touch during Temple of Lyssa event. That kept people on the move and on alert.

Not really :\ …. whenever I’m there, I just intercept him from behind and dodge back and forth at range evading all his boulders so he never gets close enough to the Temple to actually AOE anyone. …yeah I have to burn a Truffle Meat Stew to do it… but if 1 person can tie up the biggest threat there by themselves then I wouldn’t call it the best of examples. …having to have people actually guard the Exterior shrines around it was actually a better design IMO. …I think even the average player would have no problem keeping the Huge Pink Monkey busy so long as they had a Buddy who was constantly chopping down the nearby Risen Trebs.

Deified.7520:

Shadow Behemoth- Defend the monastery and the will send casters to the area above the shack in the middle. These will deflect shadow behemoths AoE drops that he reigns down from above (buff these to do considerable amount of damage to the front line fights as they hit). You need to defend the casters from waves of shadow enemies. Then to the west you have the seraph set up catapults to reign fire upon shadow behemoth. Defending these from centaurs. Then to the north at the garrison you can defend that against waves of shadow creatures and it will send Seraph Reinforcements to each area to help players fight (they would actually be useful).

I’ll be an ANet fanboy forever if they added this kind of complexity to the boss fights. I wonder if devs are considering these kinds of things when they say they want to revamp the world bosses? I really hope so!

dargosian.2704:

Deified.7520:

Shadow Behemoth- Defend the monastery and the will send casters to the area above the shack in the middle. These will deflect shadow behemoths AoE drops that he reigns down from above (buff these to do considerable amount of damage to the front line fights as they hit). You need to defend the casters from waves of shadow enemies. Then to the west you have the seraph set up catapults to reign fire upon shadow behemoth. Defending these from centaurs. Then to the north at the garrison you can defend that against waves of shadow creatures and it will send Seraph Reinforcements to each area to help players fight (they would actually be useful).

I’ll be an ANet fanboy forever if they added this kind of complexity to the boss fights. I wonder if devs are considering these kinds of things when they say they want to revamp the world bosses? I really hope so!

This is what they should’ve been doing since day 1, but what else can they do with a community that carries a flag “Zerk or GTFO”?

That has absolutely nothing to do with what you just quoted.

All PvE content can be completed with any gear stat combination, it’s just quicker to do it with others.

faintsonata.5621:

I think that even if ANet changed the mechanics of the world boss fights, the majority of the population would simply skip it and do the easy ones.

The Claw of Jormag fight introduces some “anti-zerg” mechanics. There is frozen ground that you can’t just rush through and attack until certain conditions are met whether it is breaking the shield during phase I or defending the golems from crystals during phase II.

The majority of people hate the Claw fight, and most won’t even show up until phase II. The reason being “it takes too long.” If ANet introduces some of the suggestions above to other bosses, it would make the fights longer and no one will bother doing them.

Would you spend 10-15 minutes killing a world boss for a guaranteed rare and a chest, or run a dungeon in that amount of time for enough money to buy that rare plus have spare change? As great as some of the ideas above are, people will always gravitate toward the best return in time investment, even if it means a dull fight. The community wants things easy, and they want it now.

Then the solution is easy, just up the rewards as well. Make important meta events and world bosses give more loot for the time taken than anything else on the map. If killing the Claw gave you 30 champion coffers, people would flock to it en masse even if they made it hard as Balhazaar.

colesy.8490:

That has absolutely nothing to do with what you just quoted.

All PvE content can be completed with any gear stat combination, it’s just quicker to do it with others.

Yes, it has to do with that. It means that whenever they fix the game to make all gear stats needed and have complex, team based content; instead of celebrating it we will be swimming in zerk tears.

What do you mean, “fix”? What’s wrong with people who want to put themselves at the highest risk possible but in return for being able to stay alive through their active defense, do the most damage? If you can’t do it, then you’re just going to be faceplanting every five seconds, while the people who can get rewarded.

colesy.8490:

What do you mean, “fix”? What’s wrong with people who want to put themselves at the highest risk possible but in return for being able to stay alive through their active defense, do the most damage? If you can’t do it, then you’re just going to be faceplanting every five seconds, while the people who can get rewarded.

“High risk”… cute.

^
2 needed fixes. Your post where you say the risk is higher when going zerk, and the risk to actually be high when you use it.

Right now the game is kind of a failed joke when it comes to character builds.

They either failed designed the gear sets or failed designing the content… but one thing is for sure: As it is today, it needs a fix.

I’d call eating a one-shot if I miss a dodge high risk. Sure, I and a bunch of other players can handle it, but there’s a ton of bad players on this game who either have poor timing or are too lazy to learn encounters so they “have” to take the safer route of dragging fights out in their PVT.

colesy.8490:

I’d call eating a one-shot if I miss a dodge high risk. Sure, I and a bunch of other players can handle it, but there’s a ton of bad players on this game who either have poor timing or are too lazy to learn encounters so they “have” to take the safer route of dragging fights out in their PVT.

well ma-friend that is not risk since someone wearing a different suit is also taking the same risk. Unless you are taking EXTRA damage for being zerk, there is no extra threat just extra benefit.

I said it in another post, until zerk players NEEDS a support character besides them to work properly, the game will have a huge flaw on its core design. There is no team play in GW2. None. You don’t “need” companions nor party.

Any team based game well designed will demand class and skills synergy eventually.- A character dedicated to only apply full damage can’t be fully functional by its own; it’s just wrong and causes the conflicts we currently have (like calling players dedicated to assist other players selfish, if this huge irony doesn’t wake the designers up… we have little to no hope).

I said it in another post, until zerk players NEEDS a support character besides them to work properly, the game will have a huge flaw on its core design. There is no team play in GW2. None. You don’t “need” companions nor party.

But it’s not a flaw because zerkers can play support while dealing damage.

Any team based game well designed will demand class and skills synergy eventually

And GW2 does. Mesmers in COF p1 for skipping boulders and reflects, lightning hammer elementalists for content that requires less specialisation for raw DPS and might stacking, guardians in fractals for grouping mobs, reflects and spamming blinds so that you don’t get slaughtered by the mobs as some examples.

A character dedicated to only apply full damage can’t be fully functional by its own; it’s just wrong

Just because GW2’s combat system doesn’t follow your archaic view that content should have a trinity doesn’t make it wrong.

causes the conflicts we currently have (like calling players dedicated to assist other players selfish, if this huge irony doesn’t wake the designers up… we have little to no hope).

The only conflict is bad players not realising they support much better by going full-out DPS in addition to using their support skills, so as opposed to building entirely around support.

colesy.8490:

I said it in another post, until zerk players NEEDS a support character besides them to work properly, the game will have a huge flaw on its core design. There is no team play in GW2. None. You don’t “need” companions nor party.

But it’s not a flaw because zerkers can play support while dealing damage.

Any team based game well designed will demand class and skills synergy eventually

And GW2 does. Mesmers in COF p1 for skipping boulders and reflects, lightning hammer elementalists for content that requires less specialisation for raw DPS and might stacking, guardians in fractals for grouping mobs, reflects and spamming blinds so that you don’t get slaughtered by the mobs as some examples.

A character dedicated to only apply full damage can’t be fully functional by its own; it’s just wrong

Just because GW2’s combat system doesn’t follow your archaic view that content should have a trinity doesn’t make it wrong.

causes the conflicts we currently have (like calling players dedicated to assist other players selfish, if this huge irony doesn’t wake the designers up… we have little to no hope).

The only conflict is bad players not realising they support much better by going full-out DPS in addition to using their support skills, so as opposed to building entirely around support.

You sir are impossible. We are telling the things we think are wrong and your argument is to tell how things are right now which adds absolutely nothing to the topic. Makes no sense or logic. Example:

- Zerkers shouldn’t be functional as anything else but damage.
- your answer: Yes because they can do it.

Really? did you even comprehend what I’m saying? Who said anything about a trinity!? There are 3 different roles that supposed to work here: Damage, Support and Control. Since things are wrongly designed players can do all 3 with a single build: That is what we think is bad.

Of course they can but they shouldn’t because that kills class and skills sinergy which is key for basic team and role play. Where is the role in MMO*R*PG if EVERYONE fulfill the same role?

Please, keep thinking that the reason people “complain” is because they are bad and lazy and not because they think there is something wrong when every other single piece of gear that is not berzeker is trivialized by the fact you only need damage builds to succeed or be efficient. From now on I’ll proceed to just ignore your answers unless you start adding something new to the conversation instead of just repeating things we already know as we play the same game.

PS. You don’t even realize that you are also saying that something is wrong by admitting that everyone should just use zerk and the rest is being bad. Thanks for (unconsciously) adding to my point.

Really? did you even comprehend what I’m saying? Who said anything about a trinity!? There are 3 different roles that supposed to work here: Damage, Support and Control. Since things are wrongly designed players can do all 3 with a single build: That is what we think is bad.

But they’re not “wrongly” designed, ANet intended this – all classes can output good damage, all have support skills, and all have control skills. If you want a game where you have to fully spec for roles, guild wars 2 obviously isn’t the game for you because you can do everything regardless of your gear, which is a conscious design decision.

Of course they can but they shouldn’t because that kills class and skills sinergy which is key for basic team and role play. Where is the role in MMO*R*PG if EVERYONE fulfill the same role?

But there is class and skill synergy. You have combo fields and finishers, which if you’ve played WvW for even five minutes you’d know are used extensively. You have guardians in dungeons spamming blinds so they and the team can burst down the mobs, you have the mesmer putting up feedback so you can burn down a boss without its projectiles hurting you, you have any class with fire fields putting them down and getting them blasted (or doing it themselves) before a boss fight to bring the team’s might stacks up.

Please, keep thinking that the reason people “complain” is because they are bad and lazy and not because they think there is something wrong when every other single piece of gear that is not berzeker is trivialized by the fact you only need damage builds to succeed or be efficient. From now on I’ll proceed to just ignore your answers unless you start adding something new to the conversation instead of just repeating things we already know as we play the same game.

You’re complaining because you want clear support, damage and control roles. I’ve already told you that those roles have been amalgamated in to the skills of all classes (some to more or lesser extent) and you’re just annoyed about it.

PS. You don’t even realize that you are also saying that something is wrong by admitting that everyone should just use zerk and the rest is being bad. Thanks for (unconsciously) adding to my point.

Yes, everyone should use berserker in PvE because everything else is bad in PvE. There’s nothing wrong with it, it’s just that with the way the game is designed players can dodge out of burst damage and if they take smaller hits then they all have their own burst heal and prot/regen skills. However for PvP and WvW the other armour stats really shine.

colesy.8490:

Yes, everyone should use berserker in PvE because everything else is bad in PvE. There’s nothing wrong with it, it’s just that with the way the game is designed players can dodge out of burst damage and if they take smaller hits then they all have their own burst heal and prot/regen skills.

Thanks for keep adding to my point.

Designers/Devs please read this. This is what is wrong. This very statement is repeated in several posts and it’s the right the spot where GW2 is getting weak.

But it’s not wrong. The other armour stat combinations shine in PvP/WvW, they’re just not needed against predictable AI.

colesy.8490:

But it’s not wrong. The other armour stat combinations shine in PvP/WvW, they’re just not needed against predictable AI.

And that is why they were implemented as PVE rewards and in WvW you only had one set (PVT), right? makes perfect sense

Armor sets were designed for PVE, whether they are useless or not is up to the challenge, not the sets itself. Unless they “fix” or add new content that requires party sync and strategy, the sets will continue to be worthless which is a fail on their side for making and offering them in the first place. Why are they even there?

Armor sets aside, there is still the issue where everything is trivialized because there is no real need for party interaction during combat. These are facts, not things to discuss. This is how the game is and if this game tries to be a MMORPG they have to have some synergy whether it relies on the holy trinity or other trinities or dualities or whatever strategy/composition who cares… but it has to have some kind of team play. 5 Zerks doing their thing is not playing a role in a party but an online arcade.

And that is why they were implemented as PVE rewards and in WvW you only had one set (PVT), right? makes perfect sense

Not quite. I run full glass cannon in WvW, players run PVT for survivability in large fights, players run Cleric’s for healing power in ZvZ, condi builds work as well because players don’t have bloated HP pools as well.

Unless they “fix” or add new content that requires party sync and strategy

I’ve already gone over this. Read my paragraph again:

But there is class and skill synergy. You have combo fields and finishers, which if you’ve played WvW for even five minutes you’d know are used extensively. You have guardians in dungeons spamming blinds so they and the team can burst down the mobs, you have the mesmer putting up feedback so you can burn down a boss without its projectiles hurting you, you have any class with fire fields putting them down and getting them blasted (or doing it themselves) before a boss fight to bring the team’s might stacks up.

the sets will continue to be worthless which is a fail on their side for making and offering them in the first place. Why are they even there?

I’ve already told you, they’re there for WvW, and different stat combinations are useful for PvP as well.

Armor sets aside, there is still the issue where everything is trivialized because there is no real need for party interaction during combat. These are facts, not things to discuss

Try doing a dungeon with players not stacking might, spamming blinds without trying to sync them, spamming reflects without timing them so you have full reflect up time or pulling mobs. You’ll probably get through but it will be a lot longer and painful.

5 Zerks doing their thing is not playing a role in a party but an online arcade.

Except that’s wrong.

colesy.8490:

And that is why they were implemented as PVE rewards and in WvW you only had one set (PVT), right? makes perfect sense

Not quite. I run full glass cannon in WvW, players run PVT for survivability in large fights, players run Cleric’s for healing power in ZvZ, condi builds work as well because players don’t have bloated HP pools as well.

What? You are not even answering to what I said… Who cares what you run? doesn’t make it right because you do it. PVE sets are sold as PVE reward. period. If they are more useful in WvW, PVE, or the moon nobody cares. Point is they are not useful in PVE right now and that is what has to change.

Didn’t read the rest since you are not adding anything just repeating “I do it it has to be this way”

What? You are not even answering to what I said… Who cares what you run? doesn’t make it right because you do it. PVE sets are sold as PVE reward. period. If they are more useful in WvW, PVE, or the moon nobody cares. Point is they are not useful in PVE right now and that is what has to change.

But if you go to WvW, there’s a whole different bunch of armour stat combinations available for gold + badges, the armours aren’t just PVE reward.

Didn’t read the rest since you are not adding anything just repeating “I do it it has to be this way”

No, you did read the rest, you just refuse to respond to it because firstly I’m right, and secondly you’re so blinded by your own fanaticism that you’re not interested in looking at other views. I look at other peoples’ views, I respond to them and all I get are thinly-veiled insults from them, reported and “play how I want”.