Guild Wars 2

Wondering why the F&F rewards came in the form of RNG drops as opposed to say the Southshore event (amulet, 20slot bag), Mad King Jumping Puzzle (exotic boots), Super Adventure Box (weapon skins) which rewarded players for completing the content and not just purely RNG.

With Fractals and Guild missions you are rewarded tokens for the amount of effort put in, and yes you might get lucky and receive ascended items and weapons skins too, but that’s seen more as a bonus imo.

However, with F&F Anet has changed tack and made the jetpack, mini and tonic (completely cosmetic) only obtainable via RNG. Will this be the new route Anet takes for future content rewards? (Not to mention the whole fused skins debate)

Personally I would have preferred these items rewarded on the effort put in by the player. Whether it be a token style system such as SAB or even like the early on F&F rewards which were account bound and mailed to you upon completion of certain achievements, titles, etc.

Would be interesting what everyone else thinks about this issue. Should content rewards be based entirely on RNG?

Edit: 16 jetpacks, 15 minis on TP as of right now…

Hey as long as you don’t have to kill ten rats…

Arya.9034:

Edit: 16 jetpacks, 15 minis on TP as of right now…

There will be a lot more during the next weeks when people who stocked to ressell start resseling.

MMOs have to make money. Either you pay monthly or you deal with little money making schemes. RNG items will garner more profit by increasing the chances that those that did not get them will buy gems in order to convert them to gold and buy the item.

timidobserver.7925:

MMOs have to make money. Either you pay monthly or you deal with little money making schemes. RNG items will garner more profit by increasing the chances that those that did not get them will buy gems in order to convert them to gold and buy the item.

If that was the case then why would Anet not just sell the jetpack or any other reward in the gem store like Braham and Rox’s weapon skins. Seems an awfully roundabout way of getting players to buy gems: farm dungeon chest > buy gems > convert to gold > buy off TP at a price not set by Anet, but the players rich enough to be able to flip them.

I don’t want to sound ungreatful, i enjoyed the dungeon, but i already have gloves with better stats what i don’t have is a jetpack.

If the next event is all about rng i will not take part.

The whole 2 weeks I have spent logged in have been a waste of my time and I will not let it happen again.

Arya.9034:

timidobserver.7925:

MMOs have to make money. Either you pay monthly or you deal with little money making schemes. RNG items will garner more profit by increasing the chances that those that did not get them will buy gems in order to convert them to gold and buy the item.

If that was the case then why would Anet not just sell the jetpack or any other reward in the gem store like Braham and Rox’s weapon skins. Seems an awfully roundabout way of getting players to buy gems: farm dungeon chest > buy gems > convert to gold > buy off TP at a price not set by Anet, but the players rich enough to be able to flip them.

Because it is a combination of methods to convince people to buy gems.
1. Moderately cheap Gem store items for people that don’t mind adding a small amount of money to buy items.
2. Super rare RNG items that will get great deals of money out of those well off players.

Both combine to bring in money based on gem purchases.

I agree that the SAB system was better. I didn’t even want either the jetpack or the mini, but I feel that locking them behind RNG and nothing else was a poor choice. Given that the time the dungeon was available was so limited, rven if they made the token cost stupidly high, they should have still offered a way to collect and trade.

timidobserver.7925:

Arya.9034:

timidobserver.7925:

MMOs have to make money. Either you pay monthly or you deal with little money making schemes. RNG items will garner more profit by increasing the chances that those that did not get them will buy gems in order to convert them to gold and buy the item.

If that was the case then why would Anet not just sell the jetpack or any other reward in the gem store like Braham and Rox’s weapon skins. Seems an awfully roundabout way of getting players to buy gems: farm dungeon chest > buy gems > convert to gold > buy off TP at a price not set by Anet, but the players rich enough to be able to flip them.

Because it is a combination of methods to convince people to buy gems.
1. Moderately cheap Gem store items for people that don’t mind adding a small amount of money to buy items.
2. Super rare RNG items that will get great deals of money out of those well off players.

Both combine to bring in money based on gem purchases.

I can see where you’re coming from.

So is it your opinion that it is more likely we will see future Living Story rewards similar to how the mini beserker and jetpack was handled in this story arc compared to previous rewards (eg. Halloween, Wintersday, unveiling of Southshore, etc)?

Not for every Living Story event no, but I expect to see them show up from time to time. The game can’t continue if they don’t make money, and it can’t continue if people don’t play.

It makes perfect sense when you figure out how to understand other people.
1. You have GW1 casuals that pretty much want easy stuff.
2. You have WoW converts that like progression, farming items, ect.
3. You have crafters and people that like to sell stuff and participate in the econonmy.
4. You have shallow people that are focused on cosmetics enough to spend hundreds of real life dollars to buy some stupid cosmetic item that has no benefit other than how it looks.
5. You have the weird anti-social people that have an issue with group content being added to an MMO.

They have to continue to supply stuff for all of those groups of people while at the same time convincing those people to spend money in the gem store. Rare RNG items are enough to keep number 4 and 2 active in the game and spending money. So yes, to keep 4 and 2 playing GW and spending money, RNG items will still show up.

timidobserver.7925:

Not for every Living Story event no, but I expect to see them show up from time to time. The game can’t continue if they don’t make money, and it can’t continue if people don’t play.

It makes perfect sense when you figure out how to understand other people.
1. You have GW1 casuals that pretty much want easy stuff.
2. You have WoW converts that like progression, farming items, ect.
3. You have crafters and people that like to sell stuff and participate in the econonmy.
4. You have shallow people that are focused on cosmetics enough to spend hundreds of real life dollars to buy some stupid cosmetic item that has no benefit other than how it looks.
5. You have the weird anti-social people that have an issue with group content being added to an MMO.

They have to continue to supply stuff for all of those groups of people while at the same time convincing those people to spend money in the gem store. Rare RNG items are enough to keep number 4 and 2 active in the game and spending money. So yes, to keep 4 and 2 playing GW and spending money, RNG items will still show up.

That’s a lot of generalizing in one post, but going with what you’ve said that is only 2 groups of players out of 5. That and also we are not talking about end game PvE content such as precursors, legendaries, etc. so your group #2 does not necessarily apply either since the most recent drops were cosmetic and brought no advantages to ‘progression’.

Even using the very rough examples that you provide, it seems rather counter-intuitive for the well-being of the game in the long-run to cater to 1 group (the ones willing to spend money for gems for gold) and alienate 4 others.

timidobserver.7925:

Not for every Living Story event no, but I expect to see them show up from time to time. The game can’t continue if they don’t make money, and it can’t continue if people don’t play.

It makes perfect sense when you figure out how to understand other people.
1. You have GW1 casuals that pretty much want easy stuff.
2. You have WoW converts that like progression, farming items, ect.
3. You have crafters and people that like to sell stuff and participate in the econonmy.
4. You have shallow people that are focused on cosmetics enough to spend hundreds of real life dollars to buy some stupid cosmetic item that has no benefit other than how it looks.
5. You have the weird anti-social people that have an issue with group content being added to an MMO.

They have to continue to supply stuff for all of those groups of people while at the same time convincing those people to spend money in the gem store. Rare RNG items are enough to keep number 4 and 2 active in the game and spending money. So yes, to keep 4 and 2 playing GW and spending money, RNG items will still show up.

Woah woah woah there buddy. GW1 casuals that pretty much want easy stuff? kitten you talking about?! Are you trying to say the GW1 was “Easy”?!

That kitten was not at all easy. If you wanted prestige in that game, you needed to work your butt off to earn that kitten! Legendary survivor required you to get 1,337,500 experience without dying, max level was 20 and max exp from a single quest I’ve seen was roughly 15-30k maybe. YOU HAD TO FARM THAT or FARM ELITE SKILLS OUT with skill. <—notice the one word used twice; Farm.

Oh and then there’s Mallyx the Unyielding, which has been stated by Anet, was nearly impossible to kill on launch and little babies would whine and complain about how hard it was.

AND THERE WAS HARD MODE FOR EVERY BIT OF THE CONTENT IN THE GAME!

So, we got Hard Mode, and farming, lets see..

CRAFTING!!!
OBSIDIAN ARMOR = FARM AND CRAFTING
LUXON AND KURZICK ARMOR = CRAFTING
DESTROYER GAUNTLETS = CRAFTING
ANY EXTRA ARMOR = CRAFTING

Well.. As close to crafting as it can be. You get the materials and turn them into armor by trading them to a merchant. BUT IT WAS kittenING HARD TO GET THAT kitten DONE!

Well.. As close to crafting as it can be. You get the materials and turn them into armor by trading them to a merchant. BUT IT WAS kittenING HARD TO GET THAT kitten DONE!I think I’ve proved my point. Guild Wars was anything but easy. It’s only easy if you really rock at making yellow numbers appear on your screen.

I felt SAB had quite a nice balance for effort vs. reward. Why anet decided to throw in the RNG spanner into the works is mind-boggling, especially after the weeks of complaining from players over the whole fused weapon skins and no fixed gem price debacle.

Best options for obtaining the items you want in this game now and always has been is to play the TP or farm more CoF it seems. With temporary events/dungeons it’s only funneling more of the player-base into these two playing styles so as to be as efficient as possible at making gold, to buy the item at inflated prices from sellers that are only getting richer each time there’s an event.

ArtemusHunter.9521:

timidobserver.7925:

Not for every Living Story event no, but I expect to see them show up from time to time. The game can’t continue if they don’t make money, and it can’t continue if people don’t play.

It makes perfect sense when you figure out how to understand other people.
1. You have GW1 casuals that pretty much want easy stuff.
2. You have WoW converts that like progression, farming items, ect.
3. You have crafters and people that like to sell stuff and participate in the econonmy.
4. You have shallow people that are focused on cosmetics enough to spend hundreds of real life dollars to buy some stupid cosmetic item that has no benefit other than how it looks.
5. You have the weird anti-social people that have an issue with group content being added to an MMO.

They have to continue to supply stuff for all of those groups of people while at the same time convincing those people to spend money in the gem store. Rare RNG items are enough to keep number 4 and 2 active in the game and spending money. So yes, to keep 4 and 2 playing GW and spending money, RNG items will still show up.

bla bla blah ,whining, and ect

Hmmm, obviously you missed the point of my post, which is talking about how a game with no sub fee has to do other things to make money.

By GW1 casuals want easy stuff, I meant that yes there were some hardcore people that went through a bunch of crap to do all the stuff you’ve listed, but if you didn’t do all of that it meant nothing since most of it was purely cosmetic. Game based purely on cosmetics = easy. Also, farming elite skills was very easy unless there was something OP about the Dervish class that allowed me to solo them when no one else could.

Arya.9034:

timidobserver.7925:

Not for every Living Story event no, but I expect to see them show up from time to time. The game can’t continue if they don’t make money, and it can’t continue if people don’t play.

It makes perfect sense when you figure out how to understand other people.
1. You have GW1 casuals that pretty much want easy stuff.
2. You have WoW converts that like progression, farming items, ect.
3. You have crafters and people that like to sell stuff and participate in the econonmy.
4. You have shallow people that are focused on cosmetics enough to spend hundreds of real life dollars to buy some stupid cosmetic item that has no benefit other than how it looks.
5. You have the weird anti-social people that have an issue with group content being added to an MMO.

They have to continue to supply stuff for all of those groups of people while at the same time convincing those people to spend money in the gem store. Rare RNG items are enough to keep number 4 and 2 active in the game and spending money. So yes, to keep 4 and 2 playing GW and spending money, RNG items will still show up.

That’s a lot of generalizing in one post, but going with what you’ve said that is only 2 groups of players out of 5. That and also we are not talking about end game PvE content such as precursors, legendaries, etc. so your group #2 does not necessarily apply either since the most recent drops were cosmetic and brought no advantages to ‘progression’.

Even using the very rough examples that you provide, it seems rather counter-intuitive for the well-being of the game in the long-run to cater to 1 group (the ones willing to spend money for gems for gold) and alienate 4 others.

Step 1: Just read instead of find little ways to prove stuff wrong. Point being, all sorts of things exist in the game because there is all kinds of players. RNG exists because some people like it, it stimulates the economy, and it ultimately gets some people to spend large sums of real money or spend ridiculous amounts of time farming in game money.

Also, there was no catering to one group.
1. There was a MF item available just for finishing the achivement. This gets one group out of the way.
2. There is others available to just buy from the store. This is another group taken care of.
3. There are others available through RNG farming. Another group taken care of.
4. Items are also available through farming up gold and participating in the economy. Another group taken care of.

timidobserver.7925:

Step 1: Just read instead of find little ways to prove stuff wrong. Point being, all sorts of things exist in the game because there is all kinds of players. RNG exists because some people like it, it stimulates the economy, and it ultimately gets some people to spend large sums of real money or spend ridiculous amounts of time farming in game money.

Also, there was no catering to one group.
1. There was a MF item available just for finishing the achivement. This gets one group out of the way.
2. There is others available to just buy from the store. This is another group taken care of.
3. There are others available through RNG farming. Another group taken care of.
4. Items are also available through farming up gold and participating in the economy. Another group taken care of.

First off, this is a discussion so there is absolutely no need for me to ‘just read’ and secondly there are no ‘little ways to prove stuff wrong’, you are either wrong or you are right.

You also state that ‘3. There are others available through RNG farming. Another group taken care of. ’ Which is fundamentally flawed since they are only ’taken care of’ IF the item drops.

You also seem to be under impression that these items are somehow mutually exclusive or supplements for each other while in actual fact many would see them as complementing each other quite well. So all your so-called ‘groups’ are now mixed together aiming for the same content rewards.

If you are not willing to contribute to the actual topic, which is whether or not rewarding players through pure RNG compared to having multiple methods of obtaining the same item is better, then please just refrain from posting anything at all.

Arya.9034:

timidobserver.7925:

Step 1: Just read instead of find little ways to prove stuff wrong. Point being, all sorts of things exist in the game because there is all kinds of players. RNG exists because some people like it, it stimulates the economy, and it ultimately gets some people to spend large sums of real money or spend ridiculous amounts of time farming in game money.

Also, there was no catering to one group.
1. There was a MF item available just for finishing the achivement. This gets one group out of the way.
2. There is others available to just buy from the store. This is another group taken care of.
3. There are others available through RNG farming. Another group taken care of.
4. Items are also available through farming up gold and participating in the economy. Another group taken care of.

First off, this is a discussion so there is absolutely no need for me to ‘just read’ and secondly there are no ‘little ways to prove stuff wrong’, you are either wrong or you are right.

You also state that ‘3. There are others available through RNG farming. Another group taken care of. ’ Which is fundamentally flawed since they are only ’taken care of’ IF the item drops.

You also seem to be under impression that these items are somehow mutually exclusive or supplements for each other while in actual fact many would see them as complementing each other quite well. So all your so-called ‘groups’ are now mixed together aiming for the same content rewards.

If you are not willing to contribute to the actual topic, which is whether or not rewarding players through pure RNG compared to having multiple methods of obtaining the same item is better, then please just refrain from posting anything at all.

There is definitely no need for you to read. You can try to go kitten for tat, go the semantics route, and drag this out for 3 pages by finding every small thing you can turn around in every sentence of my post, but I won’t play that game with you.

I got a game that is relatively good for a one time payment, and they are actually still adding content even though I am not paying them anything regularly. I understand that they have to make money from somewhere, because unlike kids, I know that nothing is free.

So they have easy items that cost like 600-800 gems or roughly 10 bucks. Then they have stuff for high rollers like legendaries, super rare/hard to get skins like mjolnir, limited time super rare items like the jet pack, ect. EIther you do the content 200 times to get it, farm up gold to buy it, or pay money to buy it. I am not saying that I Iike it, because I really really really want a mjolnir for my guardian, but it makes sense to me.

We have roughly 6 months before even the possibility of an expansion, so yeh, I understand that they have to do other stuff to make money until an expansion hits.

EDIT: lol the language filter is hilarious. I think I am going to leave the kitten there.

The word ‘just’ in ‘just read’ is seemingly lost on you. Thank you for once again posting no relevant points. If you are not even able to understand what the topic is about then why bother posting?

No one has said the gem store or the TP is redundant. Your fixation on people spending money in-game is amusing in the sense that it totally ignores the question.

Also how are you even able to draw parallels between Mjolnir with limited time RNG drops? There is no time limit on precursors nor any other component involved in crafting it.

Even with the SAB event it will be coming back, this living story arc is a once off making the RNG based drops even less logical.

One-time events like F&F shouldn’t be RNG. It’s simply not fair considering how low the odds are. I’ve said it before and I will say it again: time was put in and I got nothing in return for that time. If someone runs MF 60+ times they should at least obtain ONE mini pet! Oh no! Sweet FA! The only way to get what you want is to farm gold but ANet doesn’t want us to farm and nerfs anything to do with it so you’re screwed basically. Why not just implement a token system? Seriously? I would have rather ran that dungeon multiple times knowing I was at least going to get something as opposed to being empty-handed and seriously p***** like I am now.

Good job, ANet.

AJP.8610:

One-time events like F&F shouldn’t be RNG. It’s simply not fair considering how low the odds are. I’ve said it before and I will say it again: time was put in and I got nothing in return for that time. If someone runs MF 60+ times they should at least obtain ONE mini pet! Oh no! Sweet FA! The only way to get what you want is to farm gold but ANet doesn’t want us to farm and nerfs anything to do with it so you’re screwed basically. Why not just implement a token system? Seriously? I would have rather ran that dungeon multiple times knowing I was at least going to get something as opposed to being empty-handed and seriously p***** like I am now.

Good job, ANet.

I think they’re testing the waters and seeing peoples reactions. So far the reward system has been different for every event. A lot of people were asking for unique stops from dungeons that you can’t get anywhere else, so they have something to grind for. Perhaps they’ll eventually find a happy medium for everyone or they’ll just do content rewards in cycles to cater to one demographic at a time.

Personally I think the best system would have been to add the gauntlets to the chest as a rare drop and let us exchange the reward ticket for any of the events unique items. (Meaning the Jet Pack, Mini, Tonic, Gauntlets, etc. Not things like the Braham and Rox weapon skins you could buy directly from the store, only thing that are currently RNG dependant.)

That way the items are still rare because you have to participate to get the ticket and everyone is limited to just one reward, but if people have a favourite they can get it. The way it’s been done now everyone gets stuck with gauntlets whether they wanted them or not and if you wanted something else it’s tough luck.

Alternatively do it exactly like SAB – run the dungeon and try to get lucky or run the dungeon and collect enough tokens. I’d probably still have lost out because I only had time for about 4 runs, but it’d still be a much better and fairer system.

I’m not convinced it’s a money-making scheme because as people said it seems way too unreliable. They’d be better off putting everything in the gem store than counting on some players to sell the rare drops for a high price and hoping some people will convert real money to gems to afford it.