Guild Wars 2

Was reading through MMORPG’s article that was just tweeted, and I was wondering what this meant:

As the story itself progresses through the end of April and into May, players will notices that the entrances to the dungeon itself will change (to signify that players are storming in and destroying these facilities).

Does that mean the new ‘dungeon’ isn’t going to be available the whole month? Are we only going to get say X (2ish) weeks to be able to play through it?
Anyone else think its not going to be available right off the bat? None of the other articles (Massively’s or GW2Hub’s) have stated anything like that (about it not starting right away). And from the Massively article we know its only going to be available for X amount of time:

As living story content, the dungeon will be available only for a set amount of time.

Indeed, I am wondering about this aswell.
Guru says nothing about it being limited-timed while Massively does.
A official response would be awesome.

lordkrall.7241:

Indeed, I am wondering about this aswell.
Guru says nothing about it being limited-timed while Massively does.
A official response would be awesome.

I’m sure that Massively’s article is probably right, since it is a Living Story piece, which means it won’t stay around permanently (which I kinda hate). IIRC they’ve said that any LS content is going to be one time only, which sucks for future players. And if thats true, they need to make it available ASAP so that the most number of players get a chance to play it.

skullmount.1758:

I’m sure that Massively’s article is probably right, since it is a Living Story piece, which means it won’t stay around permanently (which I kinda hate). IIRC they’ve said that any LS content is going to be one time only, which sucks for future players. And if thats true, they need to make it available ASAP so that the most number of players get a chance to play it.

It is actually because it is from Massively’s article that I am questioning it. It wouldn’t be the first time Massively posted incorrect information.

Paul Belz.7351:

The Molten Weapon Facility dungeon will be available as soon as the Flame and Frost: Retribution release is live.

You will not need to have done any living story content to enter the dungeon, but if you want the achievement for completing it, you will need to finish the Hero’s Aid achievement (complete Rox and Braham’s stories) first.

I think you are misunderstanding the question. We want to know if it will be permanent or if it will go away when Flame and Frost is over?

Aw, that is a shame.
Thanks for clarifying.

great, just when I’m writing my bachelor-thesis(((

Thanks for the red posts. It sucks thats it won’t be permanent.
As for the dungeon itself then, will the be a DR, once per day end chest/loot, or once per char/account restrictions on it?

why is the fun content from the holiday-team always temporary?? They implemented things which were superior to the content available… and took it away again. And now it’s not even a holiday…

Why is it important to remove that dungeon? Couldn’t it be placed in the fractals instead? Fractals is for reliving history, isn’t it? Man, what a disappointment.

It’s a living changing world. I for one am happy there are things that don’t stick around “forever”. I think the flame and frost LS has struck the right balance between the southsun one day event and typical “forever” stuff.

And why do we still have access to all the other dungeons then? Are those part of the dead nonchanging world then? We defeated Zhaitan, he is still there waiting for me… fortunately, haven’t done the dungeon so far, but I intend do do it when time comes.

Paul Belz.7351:

The dungeon itself will be available for a limited amount of time, as it is tied to the ongoing story. The possibility of revisiting the content is not out of the question, however. It just becomes a matter of determining where and when it makes sense to do so.

why can’t you just place a bard or a storyteller or something where the dungeon entrance(s) will be after the living story is over? the party walks to him, asks for a retelling, and bam, you’re in the instance, in a lore-friendly way. i mean, didn’t you guys already do something similar during wintersday?

if the problem is that the rewards are supposed to be limited, i’m sure that changing what you get at the end of the dungeon isn’t a tough task, and it certainly beats throwing the whole thing away.

like a friend said, you guys aren’t as much “building on the world” as much as playing dress-up, adding new things, then removing them to place other new things. it’s a cool thing, and i’m glad you guys do it, but so much of what’s ‘thrown away’ could easily stay around (like this upcoming dungeon, for example).

throwing this dungeon away after flame and frost is over just because it doesn’t connect with the current story anymore would be like closing off all dungeons after a couple players killed zhaitan, or not letting players do dungeons out of order.

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

why is the fun content from the holiday-team always temporary?? They implemented things which were superior to the content available… and took it away again. And now it’s not even a holiday…

Why is it important to remove that dungeon? Couldn’t it be placed in the fractals instead? Fractals is for reliving history, isn’t it? Man, what a disappointment.

I agree with the first part, but I’m sure the holiday stuff would get boring after awhile. That, and holidays are only for a set period of time, so holiday content should be for only a set period of time as well.
F&F isn’t holiday stuff, so I don’t get why at least some of the stuff (like the dungeon/two instances) can’t stay. Stuff like the collecting are kinda temporary stuff.
SAB should definitely stay permanent, and just keep adding worlds to it (or after the worlds are completed, make a new type of game in it)
As for the fractals, I’m not sure I would want it as a fractal. It should just stay around, but like I saw earlier (or in a different thread), they could make it so the npc to starts it say this is what happened, like a history lesson.

BrunoBRS.5178:

throwing this dungeon away after flame and frost is over just because it doesn’t connect with the current story anymore would be like closing off all dungeons after a couple players killed zhaitan, or not letting players do dungeons out of order.

Exactly, it’s not logical to remove this new dungeon. A lot of players probably will never see it, because they hate pugs (bad experience) and won’t be able to group up in a certain limited period of time. I did my first Honor of the Waves – run long after release and loved it. Just because I ran out of things to do and wanted to try new things.

BrunoBRS.5178:

Paul Belz.7351:

The dungeon itself will be available for a limited amount of time, as it is tied to the ongoing story. The possibility of revisiting the content is not out of the question, however. It just becomes a matter of determining where and when it makes sense to do so.

why can’t you just place a bard or a storyteller or something where the dungeon entrance(s) will be after the living story is over? the party walks to him, asks for a retelling, and bam, you’re in the instance, in a lore-friendly way. i mean, didn’t you guys already do something similar during wintersday?

if the problem is that the rewards are supposed to be limited, i’m sure that changing what you get at the end of the dungeon isn’t a tough task, and it certainly beats throwing the whole thing away.

like a friend said, you guys aren’t as much “building on the world” as much as playing dress-up, adding new things, then removing them to place other new things. it’s a cool thing, and i’m glad you guys do it, but so much of what’s ‘thrown away’ could easily stay around (like this upcoming dungeon, for example).

throwing this dungeon away after flame and frost is over just because it doesn’t connect with the current story anymore would be like closing off all dungeons after a couple players killed zhaitan, or not letting players do dungeons out of order.

I like the bard idea but the world is getting added on to even if things like dungeons are removed after a time. We have new ppl in southsun cove we have new heroes added to the story of GW2. Think of it as in terms of what normal is in GW2 its odd to have refugee running arone all over and the ppl would like things to go back to a type of normal. Its never a good thing when refugee becomes a normal for an environment in real life and in gaming and keeping the story some what real we should see the same thing happen.

Paul Belz.7351:

The dungeon itself will be available for a limited amount of time, as it is tied to the ongoing story. The possibility of revisiting the content is not out of the question, however. It just becomes a matter of determining where and when it makes sense to do so.

Just throw it into the Fractals and call it a day.

Jski.6180:

BrunoBRS.5178:

Paul Belz.7351:

The dungeon itself will be available for a limited amount of time, as it is tied to the ongoing story. The possibility of revisiting the content is not out of the question, however. It just becomes a matter of determining where and when it makes sense to do so.

why can’t you just place a bard or a storyteller or something where the dungeon entrance(s) will be after the living story is over? the party walks to him, asks for a retelling, and bam, you’re in the instance, in a lore-friendly way. i mean, didn’t you guys already do something similar during wintersday?

if the problem is that the rewards are supposed to be limited, i’m sure that changing what you get at the end of the dungeon isn’t a tough task, and it certainly beats throwing the whole thing away.

like a friend said, you guys aren’t as much “building on the world” as much as playing dress-up, adding new things, then removing them to place other new things. it’s a cool thing, and i’m glad you guys do it, but so much of what’s ‘thrown away’ could easily stay around (like this upcoming dungeon, for example).

throwing this dungeon away after flame and frost is over just because it doesn’t connect with the current story anymore would be like closing off all dungeons after a couple players killed zhaitan, or not letting players do dungeons out of order.

I like the bard idea but the world is getting added on to even if things like dungeons are removed after a time. We have new ppl in southsun cove we have new heroes added to the story of GW2. Think of it as in terms of what normal is in GW2 its odd to have refugee running arone all over and the ppl would like things to go back to a type of normal. Its never a good thing when refugee becomes a normal for an environment in real life and in gaming and keeping the story some what real we should see the same thing happen.

Except that (unless they, ie. Rox/Braham, are reused again), any new ppl are going to be worthless since new players won’t either know who/why they are and won’t care about them.

Paul Belz.7351:

The dungeon itself will be available for a limited amount of time, as it is tied to the ongoing story. The possibility of revisiting the content is not out of the question, however. It just becomes a matter of determining where and when it makes sense to do so.

Since fractals are fragments of time that have been stabilized, would it be possible to add this Living Story instance as a new fractal? It allows players to replay the dungeon and you have the mechanic in place already where it changes every time you go in it. You can also apply this to the Ancient Karka from the Lost Shores event. Instances in Guild Wars 2 history that people can experience that they may have missed out on.

OR

Would you create like a Living Story book (Something like in Guild Wars 1) where you choose which previous Living Story experiences you missed

Outlaw.3421:

Paul Belz.7351:

The dungeon itself will be available for a limited amount of time, as it is tied to the ongoing story. The possibility of revisiting the content is not out of the question, however. It just becomes a matter of determining where and when it makes sense to do so.

Since fractals are fragments of time that have been stabilized, would it be possible to add this Living Story instance as a new fractal? It allows players to replay the dungeon and you have the mechanic in place already where it changes every time you go in it. You can also apply this to the Ancient Karka from the Lost Shores event. Instances in Guild Wars 2 history that people can experience that they may have missed out on.

OR

Would you create like a Living Story book (Something like in Guild Wars 1) where you choose which previous Living Story experiences you missed

Best idea I ever heard regarding dungeons. Please consider it, oh mighty designers!

Paul Belz.7351:

The dungeon itself will be available for a limited amount of time, as it is tied to the ongoing story. The possibility of revisiting the content is not out of the question, however. It just becomes a matter of determining where and when it makes sense to do so.

cough Fractals?

Paul Belz.7351:

The dungeon itself will be available for a limited amount of time, as it is tied to the ongoing story. The possibility of revisiting the content is not out of the question, however. It just becomes a matter of determining where and when it makes sense to do so.

Play the video while reading the text in quotes for the full effect

“Having defeated and driven out the Molten Alliance, the Priory have moved in to research how they crafted their weapons, only to find something more sinister lurking…”

Then add three more paths to make it into an Explorable Dungeon.

That way you don’t waste the dungeon area you’ve crafted.

I expected the dungeon story mode to reflect the conclusion of the F&F story line (like the other dungeons do, and their replayability doesnt make sense either temporary or not). In the same vein I expected this new dungeon to have several explorable modes and an armor set to go along with that. Explorable mode always depicts the aftermath of the story events and it would be no problem at all do the same thing here in a meaningful fashion. Color me surprised and a bit dissapointed.

If this dungeon doesn’t stay, which i think it should as it’s just as lore friendly as all the other dungeons in terms of when and why stuff is happening. But if it doesn’t then there is a way to fit it in perfectly both in lore and game mechanics. The Priory Library. The Priory exists to preserve history right? So why wouldn’t they keep a record of current events? Reports, Diaries from attacked ones, eyewitness accounts, stories, anything. Making it so that we get to replay the dungeon, or the whole living story arc for that matter, a month or two after release(the priory needs some time to gather all the info and write the tomes right?) would make sense and the system is already in the game. Come on Anet, i understand the importance of limiting rewards to make them more valuable and exotic and i understand why SAB can’t stay forever but it doesn’t make sense not to keep this in some form. An artist should never hide his or her work from the world and neither should you throw away this.

Seriously stop removing content all the time, it’s driving me crazy and making me not want to play anymore. I want to play at my own pace. Hell even now, I’ve played since release and I haven’t even finished personal story or done all the dungeons yet.

STOP FORCING ME TO DO STUFF AT YOUR PACE

Rewiinded.9401:

Seriously stop removing content all the time, it’s driving me crazy and making me not want to play anymore. I want to play at my own pace. Hell even now, I’ve played since release and I haven’t even finished personal story or done all the dungeons yet.

STOP FORCING ME TO DO STUFF AT YOUR PACE

So, how living would the world be if you could do anything at anytime?
The whole point with the living world is that things change.
If you miss a festival or a war in the real world it is not like you can go back and replay said war whenever you want.

lordkrall.7241:

So, how living would the world be if you could do anything at anytime?
The whole point with the living world is that things change.
If you miss a festival or a war in the real world it is not like you can go back and replay said war whenever you want.

We can go back and replay the story of Destiny’s Edge via the dungeons or the explorable mode stories any time we feel like it. Granted there isn’t much motivation to do story mode dungeons more than once, but the precedent is there.

There is also a precedent in GW1 where you could replay missions or play through earlier mission content with a character who didn’t come from that continent. Which was useful, say, if that character was now your main and you wanted it to have all the achievements.

I see no harm in keeping the dungeon with some kind of framing that you’re replaying events that happened in the past.

quickthorn.4918:

We can go back and replay the story of Destiny’s Edge via the dungeons or the explorable mode stories any time we feel like it. Granted there isn’t much motivation to do story mode dungeons more than once, but the precedent is there.

There is also a precedent in GW1 where you could replay missions or play through earlier mission content with a character who didn’t come from that continent. Which was useful, say, if that character was now your main and you wanted it to have all the achievements.

I see no harm in keeping the dungeon with some kind of framing that you’re replaying events that happened in the past.

The main issue with all those examples are that they are instanced, so they can be “locked in time” so to speak.
Having only the Molten Weapon Facility dungeon would make little sense, since those that was not here during the Flame and Frost line would have no idea about who the characters were, why they attack a random factory and why the dredge and FL works together.

Send one of your characters to Queensdale. Let him or her spend a few hours there. Oakheart, troll, boar, bandits, centaurs, Shadow Behemoth. How many times do these events repeat? Is there ever an end to them, a point at which the resolution, win or lose, for good or ill, actually persists? None of that is instanced. That’s our ‘living world’.

There is no excuse for making new content limited time only.

Tachenon.5270:

Send one of your characters to Queensdale. Let him or her spend a few hours there. Oakheart, troll, boar, bandits, centaurs, Shadow Behemoth. How many times do these events repeat? Is there ever an end to them, a point at which the resolution, win or lose, for good or ill, actually persists? None of that is instanced. That’s our ‘living world’.

There is no excuse for making new content limited time only.

All those does however make sense.
There are more Oakhearts, trolls, boars, bandits and centaurs than one.
The Shadow Behemoth on the other hand is never actually killed, only driven back to the Underworld.

lordkrall.7241:

quickthorn.4918:

We can go back and replay the story of Destiny’s Edge via the dungeons or the explorable mode stories any time we feel like it. Granted there isn’t much motivation to do story mode dungeons more than once, but the precedent is there.

There is also a precedent in GW1 where you could replay missions or play through earlier mission content with a character who didn’t come from that continent. Which was useful, say, if that character was now your main and you wanted it to have all the achievements.

I see no harm in keeping the dungeon with some kind of framing that you’re replaying events that happened in the past.

The main issue with all those examples are that they are instanced, so they can be “locked in time” so to speak.
Having only the Molten Weapon Facility dungeon would make little sense, since those that was not here during the Flame and Frost line would have no idea about who the characters were, why they attack a random factory and why the dredge and FL works together.

Well the molten weapon facility as an instance would be locked in time. It would be trivial to place a bit of npc narration at the start to let the players know about the background, same as every other instance does. I didnt know a thing about destiny’s edge when I entered AC story mode. The npcs filled in the story as we went through the instance.

Then you have a few explorable modes of the facility in its post-story state, with some order npcs researching stuff about the alliance.

This is identical to how every other explorable is set up, too. Really there is no need to deviate from the dungeon formula they have set up, its actually thought out pretty well.

I get the point of making the open world content temporary to give the impression of changes in the world, the impression of a living world. But like you said, “locked in time” instances have the advantage that you can do things again without it being out of place. I really hope A.net reconsiders and leaves the instance in. Upgrade it to a real dungeon with armor set and explorable mode after the story line has run its course.

lordkrall.7241:

Tachenon.5270:

Send one of your characters to Queensdale. Let him or her spend a few hours there. Oakheart, troll, boar, bandits, centaurs, Shadow Behemoth. How many times do these events repeat? Is there ever an end to them, a point at which the resolution, win or lose, for good or ill, actually persists? None of that is instanced. That’s our ‘living world’.

There is no excuse for making new content limited time only.

All those does however make sense.
There are more Oakhearts, trolls, boars, bandits and centaurs than one.
The Shadow Behemoth on the other hand is never actually killed, only driven back to the Underworld.

That’s getting off-topic but there are specific npcs you kill over and over, and the whole flame legion + dredge alliance can happen again in a few months anyway. So it makes just as much or as little sense as the rest of the world. Matter of fact I would make that one of the explorable modes, go in and prevent them from re-uniting and take back their arms factory.

Mastruq.2463:

That’s getting off-topic but there are specific npcs you kill over and over, and the whole flame legion + dredge alliance can happen again in a few months anyway. So it makes just as much or as little sense as the rest of the world. Matter of fact I would make that one of the explorable modes, go in and prevent them from re-uniting and take back their arms factory.

I have actually yet to see a single unique character get KILLED and then come back when the event starts again though.
The real unique characters are actually only driven away. And the others are simply not the same (Shatterer, Claw, Shaman and so on)

I really do like the idea of spritzing up expired living story content as fractals. Just cut out a section of the content, like a somewhat downscaled version of the end of the ancient karka event (say from camp karka to the kill-stomp… Man that kill stomp was awesome) or the last however much from F&F without the story NPCs

It seems like a realtively resource light way to add continuing value to fractals while ensuring the living story content is unique and memorable, as the fractal version is more like a trailer of the actual movie. I know a few people who adore fractals and the scaling difficulty idea, but lament the low number of potential fractals. This seems like a win for fractals as it makes sure they continue to expand but doesn’t seem to require an entire instance-sized team to continue to develop them.