Since when are repeated knockdowns fun?
Hey all!
So I finally got a grasp on the Living World story, mainly by staring at the achievement options and just figuring it out.
However, regardless of whether or not I’m trying to get the sonic audios, I am having a lot of difficulty with the sonic machines (I don’t remember exactly what they’re called, but they give you the eavesdropping moodlet and if you are in its pretty long range, you’ll receive a knockdown every couple of seconds). This is beyond frustrating. I’ll apply swiftness, run away, but still get knocked down a couple of times.
Any tips on how to attack these things? (I know about stability, but that only works until it runs out and usually I’m caught off guard by these things in the first place). Thanks!
Hmm,
I don’t remember being knocked down at all. If it did happen it was definitely only once or twice. – Went through it on my Mesmer.
Thank you! I was trying to find something similar.
Out of curiosity, I did Braham’s mission again with my necromancer using scepter/dagger (a.k.a a ranged build). Note that my engineer was using the bomb kit primarily, so melee range.
My necromancer still got knocked down. Over and over again. But not nearly as much as my engineer did.
I’m not sure how you only got knocked down once or twice, my necromancer was knocked down at least a half dozen times, and that’s with dodging several of the attacks.
Still, no fun overall. Just a big ol’ annoying fight.
Hmm, I may run it again tonight when I get home. I honestly don’t remember being knocked down (and I hate being knocked down, so if it was excessive I think I would remember). I ran it on my Mesmer though. This means I was both ranged and had illusions + Braham tanking.
That particular boss knocks down with the attacks where he throws slow-moving flame jets at you. His normal attacks, which look like the sonic periscope blasts, don’t knock you down. However, the flame jets are kinda unpredictable in that I’ve been knocked over by jets that had already passed me or that I wasn’t struck by. Lag may have been a factor, but I’m not sure.
Have you tried farming the periscopes (for the monthly) and while you are being constantly thrown back by the unblockabe periscope attack (even aegis can’t block it), a group of Molten spawns and a new event gets underway? If you don’t manage to pull the spawns away from the periscope range, or take down the periscope before a substantial number of “invaders” overwhelm you while you’re eating dirt every 2 seconds, then prepare to visit the repair man.
The knockdowns in that scenario is insane. And this scenario is frequent. Not only are there knockdowns but stuns (dredge) and blinds (flame legion). Also, the attack range of the veteran (similar to Braham’s instance) is the same as that of the periscope, i.e., beyond anything in the arsenal of players at the moment. This makes pulling tricky as you’re being cc’ed by both the periscope and the veteran and you have to move back a long way for the veteran to move out of periscope support.
This would be simpler if you don’t pull more mobs from the environment while falling back or, like what happened to me in Iron Marches, kite directly into a regular map event wherein you aggro more constantly respawning mobs, sometimes dangerous ones (veteran flaming effigies, I’m looking at you).
I have to admit that after surviving this encounter (I roam solo on my guardian for periscope farming), it felt fun and fulfilling, like a first-time dungeon run. The second time it happened, it was annoying. By the third time, a tinge of hate was forming against this constant and sustained knockdown game play. Dodging and stability can only do so much. Depriving a player of character control every 2 seconds is irritating. I would rather the scenario test my reaction times and skill timings and be rewarded or penalized based on my success or failure, and not fail because I have burned out my dodges while stability is on recharge and the only option is to retreat (shudder).
Shyld Slycere, Synful Slycere, Syn Slycere,
Bryndle Slycere, Bryl Slycere, Flytes Slycere,
Shyde Slycere – Northern Shiverpeaks
Bryndle Slycere, Bryl Slycere, Flytes Slycere,
Shyde Slycere – Northern Shiverpeaks
I did his mission a day or so after release and I didn’t have a stability skill equipped. I didn’t see a LOT of knockdown, granted I saw the mob tunnel and immediately either moved away or dodged away. It was a playstyle adjustment because, pft, Guardian’s don’t dodge story content.
Also, re: the unblockable periscopes: That freaking bugs me that my “blocks projectiles” powers don’t work on it.
“Do what you can, with what you have, where you are. Then leave the rest to Batman.”
I gotta say that although I didn’t get downed very much I found Braham’s story much harder than Roxx’s. I downed a couple of times during Braham’s story, and not at all during Roxx’s story. It felt unbalanced to me.
I have not done the missions yet, but I’ve killed plenty of periscopes. Their knock is primarily a problem when solo, doing it with 2 other guild members meant only 1 dodge was needed. That said, ANet seems to use an awful lot of knocks and pulls. I think they need to use less.
Way too many knockdowns and being wounded or whatever it is when you try to escape and you are limping…so you die of course….for the umpteenth time….losing what little money you’ve made on transport and repairs …and this is levels 30 -40 , not even close to max level where the hardcore are the only ones progressing so the rest quit.
That particular boss knocks down with the attacks where he throws slow-moving flame jets at you. His normal attacks, which look like the sonic periscope blasts, don’t knock you down. However, the flame jets are kinda unpredictable in that I’ve been knocked over by jets that had already passed me or that I wasn’t struck by. Lag may have been a factor, but I’m not sure.
The fire columns knocked me down (and like you said, past where I expected them to, but lag might have been a factor for me too). He had an attack from his weapon that knocked me down — though he knelt before doing this, so if I had anything like an interrupt I might have been able to stop it. He had another weapon attack that didn’t knock me down. When I got to melee range he’d do a leap to knock me down. And then of course I’d have to go chase him while he was throwing more fire columns and ranged knockdowns — only to get knocked down again by the time I caught up with him.
This is why I made the topic in the first place. The sheer quantity of time my character spent on the ground was far over the top. And just not fun.
I think it’s neat that ArenaNet is adding new content for free. I’m just wondering who thinks this kind of thing makes for a fun and/or interesting fight. Want to give us a challenge? Fine! But please don’t make it repeated knockdown spam, excessive loss of control of my character is just… not a great time.
That fire column/tornado is weird. Sometimes it is a single tornado and just runs past you. Other times i is 3 of them, and they seem to boomerang slightly towards the end (meaning they can sneak up on you while you focus on spotting his next attack). Also, the hitbox of the tornados are wider than the model. Meaning that when you think you can step between two of them you still get hit because the invisible hit boxes still touch or overlap.
I ran my brand new engineer out of the black citadel and I saw a periscope and thought I’d have some fun trying it at level 2. I was definitely under level since it was in a level 3 area. It was shooting me 164, over half my health. I could evade a few times until it went into a recharge position, and shoot it a few times for 6 damage before it started up again, then I had evade back out of range. Rather than spend the next half hour there I decided to something (anything) else.
(There might have been some more fun there if I’d actually opened up some more weapon skills since the number 4 skill was ranged attack reflection. Shame I didn’t know that at the time).
I have played the scenario a few times now.. it’s really not that bad, use what stability is available to you.. dodge when they go for knockdowns.. interupt when they go for knockdowns.. I haven’t had any issues at all really, did it with a necro first and my alt ranger and thief soon after.
I many games knockdows are autobalanced with an effect similar to unshkable/defiant.
If you get knocked down too often in a short period of time, you gain a short immunity to knockdowns.
That prevents excessive juggling and “deadlock” situations, as even if you bring all the stability and stun breaks in the world, a team fully specced to spam CC can literally keep anyone shut down permanently.
Guild Wars 2 could use that.
For example, by making CCs give a 5-second effect that stacks in intensity (+number). It would usually do nothing, but if a player gets 10 or more stacks, the effect kicks in, all the stacks are lost, replaced by another effect that grants immunity to CCs for 1 second. Creating a window to dodge away from all the juggling.
As it only kicks in of many consecutive CC effects are applied, it only affects the extreme situations without affecting normal gameplay at all.
If you get knocked down too often in a short period of time, you gain a short immunity to knockdowns.
That prevents excessive juggling and “deadlock” situations, as even if you bring all the stability and stun breaks in the world, a team fully specced to spam CC can literally keep anyone shut down permanently.
Guild Wars 2 could use that.
I definitely agree.
One of the times I did the event to defend the Lone Post outpost in Straits of Devastation, I was running into the outpost just as a group of putrifiers showed up. My character was knocked down repeatedly until I was dead (because of course it wasn’t just knockdowns, but a bunch of Risen hungry for brains as well). This was on a character where I didn’t have easy access to stability — my mesmer or engineer, I forget which. But there was nothing I could do except watch my character die. Very frustrating.
For this thread, though, I’m thinking more about the design of the game where knock down skills tend to be more and more popular. Orr, for example, had a lot of the knockdown skills toned down — but they’re all there again in the Living Story, with the boss at the end of Braham’s story and the numerous annoying periscopes.
That trend is, if you ask me, a bad one. Tone down the knockdown skills in the Living Story, give the fights a bit more variety, and it’s more fun.
I suggest that design takes a tip from fighting games and allow players to “tech” out. Basically it’s a mechanic that allows a character to roll out of a knockdown if the player dodges right when their animation has the character landing on it’s back. It would have to be a small skill based window so knockdowns wouldn’t be neutered. I’d even go as far as allowing a tech out to not cost dodge meter but instead give a burst of dodge meter recovery.
That reminds me of Champions online. There you have a block system where while held down you take sharply reduced damage but can’t attack. You can also use the same key to counter a CC effect, and gain a short immunity after doing so.