Guild Wars 2

First of all, i really love the new AI on the bosses in the Pavillon. Second of all, i like that you have to split up and organice to get the best result. No discussion about that in this topic.

What i do want to discuss:

There is a double punishment in the reward system. To me that is game breaking.

The longer i need with the people i get around me ( wich is random since i am not in a big guild ) the less reward i get. So:

1) i loose time and can do the Boss Blitz less often.
2) i get less reward if i don’t get things done in time

In my opinion this is unfair up to the point i find it cruel ( personal opinion ).

Question is: Is it fair to be rewarded in that way?

Fair to me would be:
1) You kill all 6 bosses and get the same reward at the end. The faster you do things the more often you can restart the Blitz, getting more rewards in the end.
Or 2) You have a timer to kill once timer hits zero you get rewarded or get a failed reward.

Have fun discussing this about rewards.

• You do it properly, you get gold reward.
• You do it with mistakes, you get silver reward.
• You do it wrong, you get bronze reward.
• You do nothing and simply wait for bosses to die from age – yes, you deserve nothing.
• You try to do it again and do it wrong, you get bronze reward.
• You try to do it again and learn enough, you get silver reward.
• You try to do it again and master it, you get gold reward.

Seems perfectly fair too me.

You are unable to read map chat? Give away part of your reward.

You are unable to see the turret with large red swords and a buff icon on the boss? Give away part of your reward.

You’ve been happily running with your friends in Queensdale and now they can’t organise even 6 groups of 7 people by typing letters? Give away part of your reward.

You are unable to find a large enough guild which exists on every server and advertises often? (Reminder: you can join up to 5 of them.) Give away part of your reward.

Sorry, you’re out of rewards. Please try again later or improve your skills to, well, get rewarded and not presented with something.

I think this thread could do with less elitism. These are valid points, why should a player be forced to join a large guild in order to complete an event that is open to all? Why is temporary content supposedly designed for everyone so punishing and difficult for everyone to have a chance at completing? Maybe you like to play unforgiving and difficult games but this game is not advertised as being that game. Less condescension would be nice.

This is absolutely correct. If you are new, or not in an big guild, or your guild doesn’t run this, you are penalized by double, less rewards and longer time. Every single living story big event has been FAIL, every single won has had a major patch/change, some a few patches, in response to the huge outcry by the players. We always have to put up with the poorly thought out design and the inherently punitive concepts for at least the first week of what is generally a two week event. The devs appear to have learned nothing from this experience, as the big event are just getting more punitive and ugly. Spoon

Ilium.3160:

I think this thread could do with less elitism. These are valid points, why should a player be forced to join a large guild in order to complete an event that is open to all? Why is temporary content supposedly designed for everyone so punishing and difficult for everyone to have a chance at completing? Maybe you like to play unforgiving and difficult games but this game is not advertised as being that game. Less condescension would be nice.

How many events in this game are “hard” at the moment? Teq, Wurm… Wait, that’s all. 99% of PvE is easy mode, almost everything can be soloed or done with people around you (thanks to megaservers).

Why are you “forced” to join a guild when you can have up to 5 and get into a non-rep one? Check in, ask people, join, check out. But hey, you don’t even need one if you’re against the idea. Go and organise it with your friends, friends invite their friends, and so on. Write on mapchat/forums/reddit to get more friends if you still need them. Here, you got 40-45 people for the event. Now read the guide and do it on 2nd try.

What, you want to solo everything? Do your personal story, do PvE, do Gauntlet (solo) and Labyrynthnthtn Cliffs (all group events done solo) but after that – it’s a Multiplayer RPG. You know you can’t storm Stonemist Castle solo, right?

So, you get a lot of soloable PvE and 2/3 of Living Story in soloable content. And now, what are those items which limit your progress and which you can’t get anywhere else than receiving Gold in Pavillion? Sorry, there ain’t any!

Rephrasing your post, “I think this thread could do with less casualism.”

Lishtenbird.2814:

How many events in this game are “hard” at the moment? Teq, Wurm… Wait, that’s all. 99% of PvE is easy mode, almost everything can be soloed or done with people around you (thanks to megaservers).

……

So, you get a lot of soloable PvE and 2/3 of Living Story in soloable content. And now, what are those items which limit your progress and which you can’t get anywhere else than receiving Gold in Pavillion? Sorry, there ain’t any!

Rephrasing your post, “I think this thread could do with less casualism.”

Oh yes, and the other really awful trend in the LS raid events, the new enemy… your fellow gamer. How wonderful we can all now justify our negative comments about others who play the game differently than we do!! excellent, just what the game needs a new PVP mode, Chat and forum PVP. where’s mah loots? Spoon

I’m not going to get into an argument that derails what this thread is supposed to be about, it shouldn’t turn into a casual vs. hardcore debate. Especially since it wouldn’t change anyone’s mind.
Not everyone has the same tools available to complete this event with a large, highly coordinated group. And the current system in place seems to add discouragement to even attempt to complete it otherwise, by the whole system to be highly timer oriented.

You do it properly, you get gold reward.
You do it with mistakes, you get silver reward.
You do it wrong, you get bronze reward.
You do nothing and simply wait for bosses to die from age – yes, you deserve nothing.
You try to do it again and do it wrong, you get bronze reward.
You try to do it again and learn enough, you get silver reward.
You try to do it again and master it, you get gold reward.

Seems perfectly fair too me.

You are unable to read map chat? Give away part of your reward.

You are unable to see the turret with large red swords and a buff icon on the boss? Give away part of your reward.

You’ve been happily running with your friends in Queensdale and now they can’t organise even 6 groups of 7 people by typing letters? Give away part of your reward.

You are unable to find a large enough guild which exists on every server and advertises often? (Reminder: you can join up to 5 of them.) Give away part of your reward.

Sorry, you’re out of rewards. Please try again later or improve your skills to, well, get rewarded and not presented with something.

You keep saying “you.” That is not appropriate here. Replace every conditional instance of “you” in your response with “the guy next to you,” and then add "You do everything right, but " to the beginning of every conditional and you’d be about right though.

Lishtenbird.2814:

• You do it properly, you get gold reward.
• You do it with mistakes, you get silver reward.
• You do it wrong, you get bronze reward.
• You do nothing and simply wait for bosses to die from age – yes, you deserve nothing.
• You try to do it again and do it wrong, you get bronze reward.
• You try to do it again and learn enough, you get silver reward.
• You try to do it again and master it, you get gold reward.

Seems perfectly fair too me.

You are unable to read map chat? Give away part of your reward.

You are unable to see the turret with large red swords and a buff icon on the boss? Give away part of your reward.

You’ve been happily running with your friends in Queensdale and now they can’t organise even 6 groups of 7 people by typing letters? Give away part of your reward.

You are unable to find a large enough guild which exists on every server and advertises often? (Reminder: you can join up to 5 of them.) Give away part of your reward.

Sorry, you’re out of rewards. Please try again later or improve your skills to, well, get rewarded and not presented with something.

What i miss in this responce: Is it acceptable to punish people double for mistakes they are making.
Once again: i am not against hard content, i do like a challenge and is not in discussion here. What i am not against is having to organice things, i see that is part of the challence.

Once again: Is acceptable to punish double. Take time away from people AND give less reward. Or should it be: Either take time away from people OR give less reward after a certain given time?

Lishtenbird.2814:

• You do nothing and simply wait for bosses to die from age – yes, you deserve nothing.

The irony is that this is exactly what you have to do after you killed your boss. Running to the other bosses and helping the people there will only give the boss more health and diminish your chances of success.

Ilium.3160:

why should a player be forced to join a large guild in order to complete an event that is open to all?

Nobody’s forced to join any guilds to do this. I’m currently in a guild all by myself, with nobody else as members, but I’ve already spent a couple of hourse two days in a row collecting gold rewards in the pavillion (and I am definitely not a farming kind of player).

Keep an eye on the lfg tool (open world → living story) for people offering taxi service to organized pavillion instances, or just put up a group yourself looking for a taxi, and you’ll find a decent instance to do this event fairly quickly. It actually requires a lot less on the part of the people around you than for example the marionette fight did, it’s a simple, straight-forward event. As long as people communicate on map chat and don’t just blindly hit anything that crosses their path, things go surprisingly smooth.

As for double punishment, it’s a question of reward vs. attendance price. If you do it wrong, the event fails … only this time, the fail is so obvious (by drawing out the fight for hours in some cases) that I’m surprised to see the number of people still trying to zerg this event. I’m all for making large events accessible for casual players, but this one already is so easy, putting a deadline on it would really amount to handing out loot for just showing up.

Lishtenbird.2814:

• You do it properly, you get gold reward.
• You do it with mistakes, you get silver reward.
• You do it wrong, you get bronze reward.
• You do nothing and simply wait for bosses to die from age – yes, you deserve nothing.
• You try to do it again and do it wrong, you get bronze reward.
• You try to do it again and learn enough, you get silver reward.
• You try to do it again and master it, you get gold reward.

Seems perfectly fair too me.

There is no indication what the ‘right’ way to do the boss run is, and part of it is counterintuitive (The part where, after you kill your boss, you DON’T go to help others)

You are unable to read map chat? Give away part of your reward.

You are unable to see the turret with large red swords and a buff icon on the boss? Give away part of your reward.

You’ve been happily running with your friends in Queensdale and now they can’t organise even 6 groups of 7 people by typing letters? Give away part of your reward.

You are unable to find a large enough guild which exists on every server and advertises often? (Reminder: you can join up to 5 of them.) Give away part of your reward.

Sorry, you’re out of rewards. Please try again later or improve your skills to, well, get rewarded and not presented with something.

Map Chat can only give the vaguest information. There are no tools to help PUGs/‘zerg’ self-organize and coordinate even when they are willing and trying to do so – If someone tries to organize a team to take down one boss,

The scaling also is only one-way (Upward), so there’s no ability to correct a mistake from population imbalance – If, after it’s reported that Boom Boom and Pyro are empty, and four groups converge on Pyro in an attempt to solve the problem, it’s too late for two of the Pyro groups to break off and move to Boom Boom instead – Pyro is buffed to fight four groups of players though only two stick around. Or, if one group manages to take a boss down quickly and try to move to distribute themselves to underpopulated teams and realize they overcompensate, then there’s also no way to fix that (Though in this situation, they’re usually shooting for Silver)

There needs to be a way to tell how many people are on each boss at any given time, and see how well each group is doing on the bosses (Read – Show all boss HP from all points in the pavillion)

Rasimir.6239:

Ilium.3160:

why should a player be forced to join a large guild in order to complete an event that is open to all?

Nobody’s forced to join any guilds to do this. I’m currently in a guild all by myself, with nobody else as members, but I’ve already spent a couple of hourse two days in a row collecting gold rewards in the pavillion (and I am definitely not a farming kind of player).

I meant that comment about being forced to join a guild as a response to what the previous poster tried to pass off as advice for this event. Your comment is what I would call actual advice.

Rasimir.6239:

Ilium.3160:

why should a player be forced to join a large guild in order to complete an event that is open to all?

Nobody’s forced to join any guilds to do this. I’m currently in a guild all by myself, with nobody else as members, but I’ve already spent a couple of hourse two days in a row collecting gold rewards in the pavillion (and I am definitely not a farming kind of player).

Keep an eye on the lfg tool (open world -> living story) for people offering taxi service to organized pavillion instances, or just put up a group yourself looking for a taxi, and you’ll find a decent instance to do this event fairly quickly. It actually requires a lot less on the part of the people around you than for example the marionette fight did, it’s a simple, straight-forward event. As long as people communicate on map chat and don’t just blindly hit anything that crosses their path, things go surprisingly smooth.

off topic, although there is good advice in it.

As for double punishment, it’s a question of reward vs. attendance price. If you do it wrong, the event fails … only this time, the fail is so obvious (by drawing out the fight for hours in some cases) that I’m surprised to see the number of people still trying to zerg this event. I’m all for making large events accessible for casual players, but this one already is so easy, putting a deadline on it would really amount to handing out loot for just showing up.

The thing is: this event NEVER EVER gets the failed reward. The instance stays open untill everybody has left it and nobody gets placed in it by the megaserver system. I have been into some of those instances where no boss was killed and the timer was completely gone.
Putting a deadline on it would at least give a chance to regroup and rethink and remake groups.
For instance they could give us 8 minutes to kill all the bosses. Once the timer hits zero the game takes a look at how many bosses killed and rewards for the amount of bosses killed. 1 to 3 bosses: Event fail reward ( that’s something like 1 silver and some xp ). 4 bosses killed, bronze reward, 5 bosses killed silver reward, all bosses killed gold reward. If it would be this way people wouldn’t be fighting for i don’t know how long and get a diminishing reward for the time they are spending.
Other way around would be, give the “gold” reward no matter how long it takes. People wil stil prefer to go with organiced instances, simply because you don’t want to spend a hour of your day to mindlessly zerg the bosses if you can get it done with a bit of effort in 6 to 8 minutes. For those who don’t want to organice things they stil can collect their reward though, they just loose ( alot of ) time.

Having an “Event Failed” timer (So it goes Gold>Silver>Bronze>Failed)… on one hand, would be terrible for the investment needed to start the event. On the other, it would allow the event to cycle faster without necessarily rewarding people – On failed run, no chest is given, or any other good.

However, it would still come in three tiers of participation, with different (Practically inconsequential) Experience-Karma-Copper rewards: Gold if you managed to take down a boss within the Gold time limit. Silver if you manage to take down any boss at all before time’s up. Bronze for those that managed to whack a mob or two in a boss area before time is up.

Well I think the system works fine. You don’t need a guild to do this. Just look in your LFG tool for a taxi to a good server.

Tim.6450:

Well I think the system works fine. You don’t need a guild to do this. Just look in your LFG tool for a taxi to a good server.

That’s the thing. Anet should stop pretending this is an open world raid, and just call it instance raid.

I don’t really have a problem with it though. I think the reward is decent for bronze, since you can either do gauntlet or afk while other people finish the event, and no one will call you a leacher since participating in it just scale the boss worse anyway.