Guild Wars 2

Fungalfoot.7213:

It gives the object a story to it. Would Excalibur truly be worthy of legend had Arthur bought it from the local blacksmith?

You think it’s more interesting because someone gave it to him instead of his having to buy it? Either way he didn’t find it in a loot bag himself. Someone handed it to him.

Unless you’re going with one of the varieties of King Arthur story in which the sword in the stone and Excalibur are considered to be the same sword (which is not always true), in which case you’re saying it’s more interesting that he was the only person who could pull a sword out of a rock instead of being the only merchant shrewd enough to buy the most unique sword on the market amidst heavy competition.

You’re arguing a point of view. For you it might be true, but that doesn’t make it objectively so. I care equally little about how much you farmed a dungeon to get your sword as I do about how much flipping Penguin did to buy his. They’re equally disinteresting to me; the end result and what you do with it matters far more, from my perspective.

Shjade.4697:

You think it’s more interesting because someone gave it to him instead of his having to buy it? Either way he didn’t find it in a loot bag himself. Someone handed it to him.

Unless you’re going with one of the varieties of King Arthur story in which the sword in the stone and Excalibur are considered to be the same sword (which is not always true), in which case you’re saying it’s more interesting that he was the only person who could pull a sword out of a rock instead of being the only merchant shrewd enough to buy the most unique sword on the market amidst heavy competition.

You’re arguing a point of view. For you it might be true, but that doesn’t make it objectively so. I care equally little about how much you farmed a dungeon to get your sword as I do about how much flipping Penguin did to buy his. They’re equally disinteresting to me; the end result and what you do with it matters far more, from my perspective.

A point of view which currently isn’t represented in the game. There is no option to quest for legendaries. There is only the gold grind and dumb kittening luck. Embrace it or perish. Sure, I ain’t arguing that some people enjoy their spreadsheeting and flipping but that wasn’t the premise Guild Wars 2 sold itself on. Had I known I was buying a Wall Street simulator with the option to play as a wage slave I would have left it sitting on the shelf and I’m sure I’m not the only one.

That you’d actually argue that playing the trading post and playing the game are both equally disinteresting propositions says a whole lot about the current state of things. Not that I’m disagreeing, mind you.

Fungalfoot.7213:

That you’d actually argue that playing the trading post and playing the game are both equally disinteresting propositions says a whole lot about the current state of things. Not that I’m disagreeing, mind you.

That’s actually not what I said at all. I said that I, as a third party, am equally disinterested in how the two of you (Fungalfoot and Smooth Penguin) get your legendaries. That you feel yours has a “story” and his doesn’t doesn’t matter to me because your story is only interesting to you.

My first experience with a quest for legendary weapons in an MMO was the class legendaries from Everquest, involving an inane list of fetch quests that generally culminated in not one but a series of raid-required dragon kills for loot that wasn’t guaranteed to drop in raids that weren’t instanced, meaning you had to get into a guild that hit them when they respawned on their one-week timer to even have a chance at a chance of getting the thing you wanted, and it certainly didn’t feel like an effort you yourself were putting in to accomplish much.

Frankly, I don’t see GW2’s model as being much worse in terms of difficulty or obnoxiousness for acquiring legendaries. It’s just a more naked, overt grind with gold involved rather than a social media grind of getting in good with the right people on your server to be allowed to join the right raids when you needed them.

tl;dr – MMOs are not where you should look for your legendary story quests. They are almost universally bad at delivering that experience.

Fungalfoot.7213:

That said, when I talk about special I mean something like the journey to a legendary back in EverQuest or obtaining Carsomyr in Baldur’s Gate II: Shadows of Amn. Heck, even World of WarCraft had some really rare items back in the day which required you to go through lengthy quests. Now that warranted admiration.

I remember when The Foundry in GW1 came out, and we did a 16 hour run to get the bonus Titan Gems at the end. My guild was proud of what we did, as we were racing to be the first to get Tormented weapons. Then, everyone and their dog had them. The special feeling went away because the rare item wasn’t so rare anymore.

So even if you have an epic adventure to complete a quest and get a unique reward, all of the good feelings end when you realize that the unique rewards became common. Then you just move on to the next epic adventure. The carrot on the stick moved. What I want is for a carrot to be so hard to get, that some people may never get it at all.

Shjade.4697:

That you feel yours has a “story” and his doesn’t doesn’t matter to me because your story is only interesting to you.

It doesn’t matter to you. That said, I’ve had the pleasure of trading stories with plenty of fine folks over the years so I’m going to go ahead and disagree with your inane assertion of it not mattering to anyone. People do care and people like having a story to tell and “I bought it off the trading post” really doesn’t have much meat to it.

Shjade.4697:

My first experience with a quest for legendary weapons in an MMO was the class legendaries from Everquest, involving an inane list of fetch quests that generally culminated in not one but a series of raid-required dragon kills for loot that wasn’t guaranteed to drop in raids that weren’t instanced, meaning you had to get into a guild that hit them when they respawned on their one-week timer to even have a chance at a chance of getting the thing you wanted, and it certainly didn’t feel like an effort you yourself were putting in to accomplish much.

Frankly, I don’t see GW2’s model as being much worse in terms of difficulty or obnoxiousness for acquiring legendaries. It’s just a more naked, overt grind with gold involved rather than a social media grind of getting in good with the right people on your server to be allowed to join the right raids when you needed them.

tl;dr – MMOs are not where you should look for your legendary story quests. They are almost universally bad at delivering that experience.

And while you had a bad experience thousands of other players bonded together over this. You might have hated the quests but they succeeded in getting players out in the world and they did great things for socialization. Countless of bonds and stories were crafted out of those inane fetch quests. We’ve lost that sense of community here. People spend their days sitting on the trading post undercutting one another instead of going out on these grand adventures together.

Yeah, great community there.

Zaxares.5419:

JS has a firm track record of not giving away anything in his forum posts (his blog posts on the GW2 website are another matter) that could affect the market (for good or ill), so it could still go either way.

Called it! XD

Thanks for adjusting the drop rate, ANet. Having the CoL recipe be so ludicrously rare was really inconsistent with the rest of the Gods’ backpieces.

I even have a suspicion that the reason JS didn’t tip his hand early (and let prices be so high for a while) was to deliberately have it be so expensive for a short time so some rich bigwigs would buy it for 2000+ gold and thus suck out huge amounts of gold from the economy via TP fees.

Anyway, I’ve still got 200+ Gauntlet tickets left. Time to go farm for my recipe.

Drop Rate didn’t fix the issue much at all.

I logged on and opened 500 bags, no recipe. I opened the TP oh look 350 gold for recipe, then noped out of GW2—Back to Wildstar.

clearly the drop rate is still too low to stabilize the demand/availability. I suspect nothing has changed with regards to OP’s concerts, (its just happening at 1/3 the scale it was before).

Naglifar.1684:

clearly the drop rate is still too low to stabilize the demand/availability. I suspect nothing has changed with regards to OP’s concerts, (its just happening at 1/3 the scale it was before).

Using made up numbers here*

If you double the drop rate of an item that was 0.1%, it’s still low. Rare items remain rare, but just not “as rare” as before. The point of the update wasn’t to satisfy all players who demanded this item. It was to make it so something that was meant to be rare, wasn’t too rare where it barely existed.

Plus, it’s only the first day. Right now the market is still likely trying to figure out the new equilibrium, and there’s still 4 more weeks to go.

Shjade.4697:

Frankly, I don’t see GW2’s model as being much worse in terms of difficulty or obnoxiousness for acquiring legendaries. It’s just a more naked, overt grind with gold involved rather than a social media grind of getting in good with the right people on your server to be allowed to join the right raids when you needed them.

tl;dr – MMOs are not where you should look for your legendary story quests. They are almost universally bad at delivering that experience.

Well that is just part of the problem. GW2 tried to sell itself as being different. It was supposed to be “better” not “not much worse”.

Guys, guys, don’t forget that you can always trade gems in for gold!

Khisanth.2948:

Shjade.4697:

Frankly, I don’t see GW2’s model as being much worse in terms of difficulty or obnoxiousness for acquiring legendaries. It’s just a more naked, overt grind with gold involved rather than a social media grind of getting in good with the right people on your server to be allowed to join the right raids when you needed them.

tl;dr – MMOs are not where you should look for your legendary story quests. They are almost universally bad at delivering that experience.

Well that is just part of the problem. GW2 tried to sell itself as being different. It was supposed to be “better” not “not much worse”.

Not much worse=better. Its kinda definition of the word.

It is much better than pretty much any MMO out there.

What, now people will go play something actually worse to prove some kind of point (Wildstar was mentioned – lol)

MikaHR.1978:

Not much worse=better. Its kinda definition of the word.

Uh…no. No, that statement is completely false.

Not much worse = worse, just not much worse.

Better = better.

I find the idea of an item being “realistically obtainable” but still “rare” to be weird.

Which do you want it to be? Rare or obtainable?
Choose either, because we’re millions of players. Anything which doesn’t have a punitively low and based on RNG is going to become a rather common commodity rather fast (look how “normal” we consider Ascended gear to be, despite what amount of raw materials it requires).

The only way to force rarity despite a reliable acquisition would be something like:

• A new type of Legendary is added, earned via scoring well enough in sPvP.
• In fact, a league system will award this Legendary to the top 10 players on each realm every season.
• In fact, players LOSE IT if they drop out of the top 10, their item will revert back to a normal skin from the legendary one, and the skin itself cannot be applied to other weapons.

So in short, you have to force a “superunique” mechanic where players can lose access. Which people won’t like. :P

When you have enough variety, rarity loses any means.

At that point is how you combine that variety.

tolunart.2095:

But I’m really asking you to do what I’m trying to do, and look beyond your personal preferences and view the game as an “average player” who desires these items because few people have them. When many people have them, they become worthless because only those people who do not have them want them. He can’t impress people with Twilight if they already have Eternity.

I never said that the items need to be easy to get. I am perfectly okay with legendaries being placed behind an effort and cost bar (except for the randomness of the precursor – precursor crafting is something that definitely should happen). Everyone would be able to get them, but most people will not.

What is unacceptable for me is placing gear behind a lottery bar – because then we get the situation where one person gets “rewarded” while putting way less effort than someone who got nothing.

tolunart.2095:

It’s a paradox – the average player wants the rare gear that only a few players have, but if the average player has it, then by definition it is not “the rare gear that only a few players have” and so he doesn’t want it.

If the gear is truly rare, then an “average” person has no chance of ever obtaining one, and thus them wanting is soon becomes a moot point. They won’t be working towards it anyway.

tolunart.2095:

In essence, these posts are demanding that the devs hand the individual posting the rare items instead of distributing them randomly, so that the poster has the things he wants but no one else can have them.

Please, don’t strawman. Especially since it’s the people arguing for the high rng that are closer to that position (they all seem to assume that rng will favour them and noone else).

Astralporing.1957:

tolunart.2095:

It’s a paradox – the average player wants the rare gear that only a few players have, but if the average player has it, then by definition it is not “the rare gear that only a few players have” and so he doesn’t want it.

If the gear is truly rare, then an “average” person has no chance of ever obtaining one, and thus them wanting is soon becomes a moot point. They won’t be working towards it anyway.

Good, you do understand. My wife, who is about as casual as you can get, didn’t even know what Legendaries were until I told her why that one toon was running around leaving black trails in the air. I don’t think the average player seriously considers creating a Legendary weapon to be a realistic goal.

But there are many players who would do so, given the opportunity. A relatively small number of players are able to make the commitment to playing that is necessary to obtain rare items like precursors or other expensive and rare items. This is absolutely intentional, and when the devs want something to be rare, it will indeed be rare, and therefore beyond the reach of most players.

It’s only a problem if one makes it a problem for himself. I don’t want rare items simply because they are rare, so it’s not a problem for me. If I want to buy something for other reasons (it’s useful to me or I like the way it looks) then I can make a commitment to playing in a way that will allow me to afford it.

Take character slots, for example. They cost a fair amount of gold/gems even though you cannot display them and make other people jealous. I wanted more than the original five slots because I like to have more options, and over the course of a little over a year I bought twelve slots, most of them through in-game gold conversion. If you add up all the gold I spent on them, I could probably have bought a precursor if that was my goal instead.

The problem is created by those who want a precursor or other rare items handed to them, and throw a tantrum when they don’t get their way. It’s not a strawman argument, it’s what is really happening. If you want something, go get it. I’m not interested in hearing how hard it is to get anything in this game, because I know that it’s not, it just requires a certain time commitment. Luck is a shortcut, not the path.

tolunart.2095:

The problem is created by those who want a precursor or other rare items handed to them

Again, strawman. Not “want the items handed to them” but “want a reliable (and stable) way of obtaining them”. As i said before, which you ignored, legendaries in general are perfectly okay as they are – except for precursors, that are a lottery game. The effort and commitment are understandable. The effort and commitment that resut in nothing gained are not.

Carighan.6758:

I find the idea of an item being “realistically obtainable” but still “rare” to be weird.

Which do you want it to be? Rare or obtainable?
Choose either, because we’re millions of players. Anything which doesn’t have a punitively low and based on RNG is going to become a rather common commodity rather fast (look how “normal” we consider Ascended gear to be, despite what amount of raw materials it requires).

The only way to force rarity despite a reliable acquisition would be something like:

• A new type of Legendary is added, earned via scoring well enough in sPvP.
• In fact, a league system will award this Legendary to the top 10 players on each realm every season.
• In fact, players LOSE IT if they drop out of the top 10, their item will revert back to a normal skin from the legendary one, and the skin itself cannot be applied to other weapons.

So in short, you have to force a “superunique” mechanic where players can lose access. Which people won’t like. :P

That is basically the same as some of the cape trims in GW1.

tolunart.2095:

The problem is created by those who want a precursor or other rare items handed to them, and throw a tantrum when they don’t get their way. It’s not a strawman argument, it’s what is really happening. If you want something, go get it. I’m not interested in hearing how hard it is to get anything in this game, because I know that it’s not, it just requires a certain time commitment. Luck is a shortcut, not the path.

So everyone should just get on with the gold farming eh? Fun game.

Luck is a shortcut, not the path. That cracks me up lol.

Almost signature worthy, but I have no room.

Gold farming can’t be the real solution, because real solutions have to work for everyone, always. If a million players suddenly started to do everything humanly possible to maximize their gold gain, there wouldn’t be more of them with a precursor a year from now than if only a few of them did that, because there aren’t a million precursors to go around.

‘Working hard’ is only a solution as long as not a lot of people are doing it, so telling people to go and do it wouldn’t help at all if too many took up that advice. The ‘path’ isn’t to work hard, it’s to work harder than the people you’re competing with for a resource, and that obviously can’t turn out succesfully for everyone.

Astralporing.1957:

tolunart.2095:

The problem is created by those who want a precursor or other rare items handed to them

Again, strawman. Not “want the items handed to them” but “want a reliable (and stable) way of obtaining them”. As i said before, which you ignored, legendaries in general are perfectly okay as they are – except for precursors, that are a lottery game. The effort and commitment are understandable. The effort and commitment that resut in nothing gained are not.

I disagree. That is my opinion, which doesn’t happen to be yours. That doesn’t make either of us correct or incorrect.

Khisanth.2948:

tolunart.2095:

The problem is created by those who want a precursor or other rare items handed to them, and throw a tantrum when they don’t get their way. It’s not a strawman argument, it’s what is really happening. If you want something, go get it. I’m not interested in hearing how hard it is to get anything in this game, because I know that it’s not, it just requires a certain time commitment. Luck is a shortcut, not the path.

So everyone should just get on with the gold farming eh? Fun game.

Welcome to MMOs, obviously you’ve never played one before. Long term goals are set up by the devs to give players a reason to keep logging in. Otherwise, you log in, pay $250 and stand around in your Armor of Awesomeness and chat about how great you are.

The fact that long term goals require a long term commitment is not a problem, it’s a design decision. If you don’t want to do that, convert some gold to gems and buy a weapon skin from the TP.

Manasa Devi.7958:

‘Working hard’ is only a solution as long as not a lot of people are doing it, so telling people to go and do it wouldn’t help at all if too many took up that advice. The ‘path’ isn’t to work hard, it’s to work harder than the people you’re competing with for a resource, and that obviously can’t turn out succesfully for everyone.

You’re in luck, I guarantee that most of the people reading this won’t take my advice.

However, that doesn’t change anything. The devs set up the Legendary process the way they did for a reason, and whining about it on the forums won’t change that.

tolunart.2095:

Welcome to MMOs, obviously you’ve never played one before. Long term goals are set up by the devs to give players a reason to keep logging in. Otherwise, you log in, pay $250 and stand around in your Armor of Awesomeness and chat about how great you are.

Yeah, I remember farming gold to buy my awesomeness in EverQuest as well as World of Warcraft.

Oh wait that never happened. I actually had to go out and do all this hard content to earn my prestige. If only I had been able to flip my way to success…

Fungalfoot.7213:

Yeah, I remember farming gold to buy my awesomeness in EverQuest as well as World of Warcraft.

Oh wait that never happened. I actually had to go out and do all this hard content to earn my prestige. If only I had been able to flip my way to success…

I’ve never played those two games before. Was in-game currency that useless? If so, what’s the point in playing if there’s no money system?

tolunart.2095:

Manasa Devi.7958:

‘Working hard’ is only a solution as long as not a lot of people are doing it, so telling people to go and do it wouldn’t help at all if too many took up that advice. The ‘path’ isn’t to work hard, it’s to work harder than the people you’re competing with for a resource, and that obviously can’t turn out succesfully for everyone.

You’re in luck, I guarantee that most of the people reading this won’t take my advice.

However, that doesn’t change anything. The devs set up the Legendary process the way they did for a reason, and whining about it on the forums won’t change that.

How exactly do you explain that they were even talking about precursor crafting – as in the devs – if it is what it is and that’s it and we should all just be quiet and accept the facts?

Remember, having fun is not the shortcut, it’s the path.
(Ok, that really wasn’t as good as yours.)

But I do hope that they still leave the mystic toilet part in the game as well, so people can still do it the hard earned way (not that we know if the “crafting” way will actually be “easier”) if that is what they prefer.

Btw, they sure designed this game with the maxime on mind to “compete” with everyone. Which is why we have mob and tagging, fights over resource nodes etc.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Fungalfoot.7213:

Yeah, I remember farming gold to buy my awesomeness in EverQuest as well as World of Warcraft.

Oh wait that never happened. I actually had to go out and do all this hard content to earn my prestige. If only I had been able to flip my way to success…

I’ve never played those two games before. Was in-game currency that useless? If so, what’s the point in playing if there’s no money system?

Not sure about EverQuest, but I would say raids. In-game currency was not useless per se but I’d almost daresay you made it faster with daily quests and the like than with selling things at the auction house. But take that with a grain of salt.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

I’ve never played those two games before. Was in-game currency that useless? If so, what’s the point in playing if there’s no money system?

Not useless, no. It’s just that having the right friends and actually being good at the game were more important factors overall. You still had world drops which sold for a pretty penny to collectors. Not to mention consumables, social items and all that jazz. I actually built myself a small empire in World of Warcraft dealing in a certain fish.

The issue with Guild Wars 2 is really that it’s way too one-sided. Beyond achievements there really is no point in doing most of the content.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Fungalfoot.7213:

Yeah, I remember farming gold to buy my awesomeness in EverQuest as well as World of Warcraft.

Oh wait that never happened. I actually had to go out and do all this hard content to earn my prestige. If only I had been able to flip my way to success…

I’ve never played those two games before. Was in-game currency that useless? If so, what’s the point in playing if there’s no money system?

The big difference between those games and GW2 in terms of gear (other than the obvious treadmill that comes with a subscription game) is that in those games you need to grind Activity A over and over and hope for Item A to drop whereas in GW2 you can grind Activity A-Z and use the gold generated to buy Item A-Z.

Some people feel like grinding one activity for each item is better (heaven knows why). Other people realize that GW2 gives you MORE options for getting your gear and appreciate that they can do the stuff they like doing to get the stuff they like having.

mtpelion.4562:

The big difference between those games and GW2 in terms of gear (other than the obvious treadmill that comes with a subscription game) is that in those games you need to grind Activity A over and over and hope for Item A to drop whereas in GW2 you can grind Activity A-Z and use the gold generated to buy Item A-Z.

Some people feel like grinding one activity for each item is better (heaven knows why). Other people realize that GW2 gives you MORE options for getting your gear and appreciate that they can do the stuff they like doing to get the stuff they like having.

People like grinding specific content for specific rewards because it gives them a realistic goal to work towards. Grinding gold in Guild Wars 2 hoping to one day buy a legendary is not a realistic goal for most players. This seems fairly obvious to me. There’s also the whole having to earn your shinies argument.

Sure, a precursor can drop from anywhere but with a drop rate of 0.00000000001% or whatever it is what’s the point? Nobody goes to farm Orr thinking they’ll ever get that drop. I’d rather take specific encounters for specific rewards with sensible drop rates. Then we can have some ultra rare world drops on the side. I’m just opposed to it being the main method of acquisition.

mtpelion.4562:

The big difference between those games and GW2 in terms of gear (other than the obvious treadmill that comes with a subscription game) is that in those games you need to grind Activity A over and over and hope for Item A to drop whereas in GW2 you can grind Activity A-Z and use the gold generated to buy Item A-Z.

Some people feel like grinding one activity for each item is better (heaven knows why). Other people realize that GW2 gives you MORE options for getting your gear and appreciate that they can do the stuff they like doing to get the stuff they like having.

This is not true. You’re competing with a lot of other people also trying to buy the same thing you want. If what you’re doing earns gold significantly slower than activity A, and there’s a bunch of people doing activity A, then activity B won’t get you ahead if it gets you much less gold. In economic terms it’s called opportunity cost, and its a really important concept.

Fungalfoot.7213:

Sure, a precursor can drop from anywhere but with a drop rate of 0.00000000001% or whatever it is what’s the point? Nobody goes to farm Orr thinking they’ll ever get that drop. I’d rather take specific encounters for specific rewards with sensible drop rates. Then we can have some ultra rare world drops on the side. I’m just opposed to it being the main method of acquisition.

GW2 currently has all that in place. There are specific rewards for doing specific LS events (i.e. non-RNG like Watchwork Shoulder or RNG like Scarlet’s Kiss rifle). There are dungeon weapons and armor for specific dungeon tokens, or from SPvP reward tracks. There are rare unique weapon and armor boxes for Teq and the Great Wurm. Then you have ultra rare items like Precursors that can drop from nearly everything at max level.

Some of these items are Account Bound on acquire, so you can’t trade them. Some are not bound, so you can choose to use them, or sell them on the market. So just because there’s a reward that you don’t care for (i.e. CoF weapons and armors), doesn’t mean that the reward methods you’re asking for isn’t already in the game.

Tamasan.6457:

This is not true. You’re competing with a lot of other people also trying to buy the same thing you want. If what you’re doing earns gold significantly slower than activity A, and there’s a bunch of people doing activity A, then activity B won’t get you ahead if it gets you much less gold. In economic terms it’s called opportunity cost, and its a really important concept.

If activity A provides you with a lot of Gold earning opportunities, and activity B does not, then it’s the players fault for choosing to do B over A. Mind you that this only applies if the main purpose of doing either activity is to make money. If you choose to do activity B because it’s more fun than A, then you’re making the conscious decision to miss out on making Gold. At that point, since you made the choice, you can’t complain.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

What I want is for a carrot to be so hard to get, that some people may never get it at all.

Based on your post trends this would be something along the lines of being super expensive that realistically only TP Flippers or credit card users could get. Could such a carrot include content so hard that players such as yourself would never realistically get?

In any event, either way, its a mute point. GW2 has very clearly and distinctivly made itself a mainstream game. As such there is little room for what you want or what people like myself want. Be thankful that you can have multiple legendaries playing your way.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

If activity A provides you with a lot of Gold earning opportunities, and activity B does not, then it’s the players fault for choosing to do B over A.

Activity A being TP Flipping? WvW, PvE, PvP would be activity B? I should learn this activity A, but then I remember I bought a game called Guild Wars 2 not Tycoon TP Flipper 2.

The real gold should be made going off on grand adventures, not sitting afk in LA price gouging with a bunch of spreadsheets in front of me.

Welp, I’m glad the increase in drop rate has dropped the recipe price to reasonable levels. I can work toward 150g in four weeks, but it would be impossible to work toward 1500g in four weeks (after which point the price can only go up); I’ll still try my luck since I have a thousand tickets left, but it’s good to have options now.

Options that aren’t limited to “spend a few hundred real dollars buying gems to convert to gold to afford the ludicrous price” or “spend an undefinable amount of time grinding gauntlet tickets, then grinding fights for chance bags”, that is.

mtpelion.4562:

Some people feel like grinding one activity for each item is better (heaven knows why). Other people realize that GW2 gives you MORE options for getting your gear and appreciate that they can do the stuff they like doing to get the stuff they like having.

It’s mostly a matter of new/different compared to known/comfortable. People find comfort in familiar situations, even if they are worse off than they would be doing something new and different. It’s the reason why some people have demanded vertical progression, raids, the Trinity and so on since GW2 launched. The devs tried to create something new and different, but (some) players want old and familiar instead, even if it’s inferior to the new and different game.

The economy and TP here work completely different from the single-server auction house you find in most MMOs, and it makes people uncomfortable. The ability to buy most gear instead of “earning” it by throwing yourself at content you don’t like week after week and fighting your party members for rare drops is unfamiliar, and therefore it must be wrong.

I’m sure the same sort of arguments were once made about automobiles, by those who didn’t want to give up their horses.

Fungalfoot.7213:

tolunart.2095:

Welcome to MMOs, obviously you’ve never played one before. Long term goals are set up by the devs to give players a reason to keep logging in. Otherwise, you log in, pay $250 and stand around in your Armor of Awesomeness and chat about how great you are.

Yeah, I remember farming gold to buy my awesomeness in EverQuest as well as World of Warcraft.

Oh wait that never happened. I actually had to go out and do all this hard content to earn my prestige. If only I had been able to flip my way to success…

Yeah, people didnt sell raid spots/gear, at best for gold, but RMT wasnt far away. Never happend….the truth.

Your reliable way….farm/buy gold and buy of TP.

mtpelion.4562

The big difference between those games and GW2 in terms of gear (other than the obvious treadmill that comes with a subscription game) is that in those games you need to grind Activity A over and over and hope for Item A to drop whereas in GW2 you can grind Activity A-Z and use the gold generated to buy Item A-Z.

Some people feel like grinding one activity for each item is better (heaven knows why). Other people realize that GW2 gives you MORE options for getting your gear and appreciate that they can do the stuff they like doing to get the stuff they like having.

The obvious treadmill comes with every MMO. Otherwise players would be “done” really fast and leave the game.

The overall idea of GW2 to have multiple ways to get stuff is a good one and I like it very much.

But in reality it turns out that it is often much easier to get stuff not as a direct drop or achievment but indirect by buying it in the TP with gold. And the most efficient way to farm gold is not (always) the way with the most fun. Because of this GW2 has some really “grindy taste”, sometimes even more than other games with less choice.

Greetings.

Zok.4956:

mtpelion.4562

The big difference between those games and GW2 in terms of gear (other than the obvious treadmill that comes with a subscription game) is that in those games you need to grind Activity A over and over and hope for Item A to drop whereas in GW2 you can grind Activity A-Z and use the gold generated to buy Item A-Z.

Some people feel like grinding one activity for each item is better (heaven knows why). Other people realize that GW2 gives you MORE options for getting your gear and appreciate that they can do the stuff they like doing to get the stuff they like having.

The obvious treadmill comes with every MMO. Otherwise players would be “done” really fast and leave the game.

The overall idea of GW2 to have multiple ways to get stuff is a good one and I like it very much.

But in reality it turns out that it is often much easier to get stuff not as a direct drop or achievment but indirect by buying it in the TP with gold. And the most efficient way to farm gold is not (always) the way with the most fun. Because of this GW2 has some really “grindy taste”, sometimes even more than other games with less choice.

Greetings.

At least it has options. You CAN farm most efficient thing or you CAN farm less efficient thing thats fun. AND you can get a jackpot by doing either.

Alternative is to farm same exact content ad nasueum whether you like it or not.

And yeah, that alternative sucks to no end.

So please explain how doing pretty much whatever you like feels grindy, when you propose grinding 1 particular thing to no end without ANY other options.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

If activity A provides you with a lot of Gold earning opportunities, and activity B does not, then it’s the players fault for choosing to do B over A. Mind you that this only applies if the main purpose of doing either activity is to make money..

If I want to make money I do not play GW2 but make money in real life. This activity is normally called “work”.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

If you choose to do activity B because it’s more fun than A, then you’re making the conscious decision to miss out on making Gold. At that point, since you made the choice, you can’t complain.

Yes, I choose very often to play the fun activities because I play to have fun. And I do not complain about it.

GW2 is not primarily a business simulation but a MMORPG. So playing the “normal” content should be the most rewarding way to “earn” currency/items but not gambling on the stock exchange (TP).

Greetings.

MikaHR.1978

At least it has options. You CAN farm most efficient thing or you CAN farm less efficient thing thats fun. AND you can get a jackpot by doing either.

Alternative is to farm same exact content ad nasueum whether you like it or not.

Alternative is the fun activity should be the most rewarding and efficient and the “farm gold and buy in TP” should be the less efficient thing.

Greetings.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

GW2 currently has all that in place. There are specific rewards for doing specific LS events (i.e. non-RNG like Watchwork Shoulder or RNG like Scarlet’s Kiss rifle). There are dungeon weapons and armor for specific dungeon tokens, or from SPvP reward tracks. There are rare unique weapon and armor boxes for Teq and the Great Wurm. Then you have ultra rare items like Precursors that can drop from nearly everything at max level.

Some of these items are Account Bound on acquire, so you can’t trade them. Some are not bound, so you can choose to use them, or sell them on the market. So just because there’s a reward that you don’t care for (i.e. CoF weapons and armors), doesn’t mean that the reward methods you’re asking for isn’t already in the game.

The keyword here was sensible. The droprates on Scarlet’s Kiss were anything but sensible. The same applies to Tequatl and Wurm boxes which I foolishly grinded for months only to end up with totally different weapon chests. Guess I can’t complain too much since some people have done that kitten since the encounters were first implemented and still have nothing to show for it. That, my friend, is truly kittened.

Achievement bound skins are neat and all but I wouldn’t place them on the same level as legendaries. The issue remains in that the shiniest of shinies are handed out by an RNG lottery. What’s the prestige in that?

Zok.4956:

MikaHR.1978

At least it has options. You CAN farm most efficient thing or you CAN farm less efficient thing thats fun. AND you can get a jackpot by doing either.

Alternative is to farm same exact content ad nasueum whether you like it or not.

Alternative is the fun activity should be the most rewarding and efficient and the “farm gold and buy in TP” should be the less efficient thing.

Greetings.

You really dont make any sense, sorry.

Zok.4956:

But in reality it turns out that it is often much easier to get stuff not as a direct drop or achievment but indirect by buying it in the TP with gold. And the most efficient way to farm gold is not (always) the way with the most fun. Because of this GW2 has some really “grindy taste”, sometimes even more than other games with less choice.

There is always going to be a most efficient and/or fastest method to get what you want. If you don’t care about speed and efficiency, it’s good that there are other, more fun options you can investigate. For a while, everyone interested in fast money ran COF path 1, but that doesn’t mean the other dungeons disappeared, just that that one was the easiest and fastest way to get to the loot at the end.

Zok.4956:

Alternative is the fun activity should be the most rewarding and efficient and the “farm gold and buy in TP” should be the less efficient thing.

Greetings.

Anet takes action when a single “farming” activity gives too much rewards by adjusting the activity or its rewards to fall in line with their intentions whenever possible. But they cannot determine what is fun for you, the players do that and make choices for themselves about what activities they want to concentrate on. Generally speaking “have fun” and “make gold” involve very different activities.

It appears that a lot of players don’t understand that they’re making a choice to do something, and then complaining about the choice they made. I’ll try to give a simple example in hopes they understand.

Say you have three (3) quests that you can pick from. You can only do one at a time:

Quest A – Epic adventure that’s fun and challenging, and gives everyone the same reward.
Quest B – Mindless grinding for Champ bags. Mostly boring because of the repetitive nature of farming, but highly profitable for the items you can sell.
Quest C- Sit idle in town while playing the market, not experiencing content provided by an MMO. Researching trends and risking personal wealth in order to make a profit. Chance to lose a lot of money, or make a lot of money.

Here’s what happens with each quest:

Quest A – Everyone has fun, but doesn’t care for the reward. It’s a nice reward, but since it’s so common, people complain that the content wasn’t “rewarding enough”.

Quest B – After 5 hours of continuous farming, your bags are filled with loot. You just wasted away a good chunk of your day being bored, but made some money after selling T6 mats and Exotics to other players.

Quest C (path 1) – You just lost thousands of Gold because your speculations were wrong. A normal player in this situation would probably uninstall due to the shock.

Quest C (path 2) – You just made hundreds of Gold flipping items for a 20% profit. Other players are jealous of your success, and call you a manipulator. You feel bad that no one likes you, and pass the time arranging stacks of Ecto to spell words in your bank.

Summary – You can choose to do Quest A for fun, and then Quest B for loot. Alternate between the two, and you can have fun and make money while playing. Quest C takes skill, so not everyone can do this. But that doesn’t prevent you from trying to learn.

How about just having these sort of rewards earn-able with in-game accomplishments, rather than locking everything behind RNG?

It’s so tiresome to have these items with an insanely low drop rate. Who enjoys that? And on top of that, the game is currently already lacking in rewards and good loot as it is.

GW1 veterans will recall this as the mini polarbear syndrome. It’s a dreadful course for the designers to follow.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

How about just having these sort of rewards earn-able with in-game accomplishments, rather than locking everything behind RNG?

It’s so tiresome to have these items with an insanely low drop rate. Who enjoys that? And on top of that, the game is currently already lacking in rewards and good loot as it is.

GW1 veterans will recall this as the mini polarbear syndrome. It’s a dreadful course for the designers to follow.

Because without RNG, rewards would all become common as dirt. No prestige. No desire to have. So once you take away the desire to have the reward, you take away the desire to do the content that gives the reward.