why the new pavillion does not work

why the new pavillion does not work

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Posted by: Lynne.8416

Lynne.8416

How does it not work? I think it amazing.
5 other Commanders and I just organized and progressed all the way up to 30 seconds off of Gold. It isn’t hard.
Just don’t be lazy and command better.
It’s a step in the right direction compared to last years follow the Dorito and zerg type of thing.
I love the Pavilion this time around.
Just stop expecting to get everything handed to you without working for it.

Unfortunately some of us haven’t yet had the experience in the pavilion with commanders (and communication) on the map because we don’t play during “prime time” hours. Hopefully, on the weekend people will still be interested in killing bosses. :-)

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Posted by: shadowraiden.8394

shadowraiden.8394

also expecting people of many different languages(alot dont speak english) is also a major flaw with the whole event in the new megaserver system.

its open world content so while i can understand some challenge this is kinda poorly designed with no consideration to the actual flaws of this system

end game content should be raids set up for organised groups not asking pugs to all of a sudden gain organisation after 2 years of zerg content.

now i wasnt expecting the drop rate of last year but this is poor compared to other content especially in MMO’s especially when Wildstar is launching and has much better designed content(just shame i hate the asthetics) thats designed for raiding and organisation but also has open world content that is perfect for the masses.

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Posted by: Tommyknocker.6089

Tommyknocker.6089

The design team dropped the ball on this one for sure. Off the top of my head I can come up with a few much better ways to make player know what to do and how to do it.

For example:
A greeter that informs players that downing all bosses close to the same time is needed to succeed
gated areas that only allow so many to enter
announcers to tell players what boss needs more/less players
Less insane scaling for when a boss has to many on him, but still make a zerg fail if they are try one at a time

I could go on, but it is in vain as the event has sadly already been released.

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Posted by: Anomaly.7612

Anomaly.7612

It’s not hundreds, it’s closer to 60-70. And it’s not hard. It actually requires a very basic level of communication. No specialized builds needed (though having a couple people who know how to use reflect helps a lot).

The problem is that people would rather complain on forums about how their loot was nerfed than cooperating with the people around them to claim their EASY 8 champ bags every 15-20 minutes or so.

I’d say the majority of players are doing what they’ve always done: flocking to the Blue Dorito, autoattacking while doing other things on a second monitor, and expecting a huge reward.

Oh, and ignoring mapchat completely.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm, something tells me you’re on to something here. Having to suddenly turn on a brain after it’s been mostly used for a drool response in the past can be difficult. Has anyone tried making a map chat macro with detailed instructions? (in the case that someone is reading map chat).

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Posted by: Illconceived Was Na.9781

Illconceived Was Na.9781

it’s actually a very simple reason. expecting hundreds of random people who don’t know each other very well to work together is probably one of the most unrealistic expectations ever.

That’s what people said about Tequatl, the Marionette fights, and, back when the game was in Beta/Launch, the fire elemental in Metrica. Stuff seems hard until people learn how it works. And then some will complain it’s too easy.

John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”

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Posted by: Anomaly.7612

Anomaly.7612

it’s actually a very simple reason. expecting hundreds of random people who don’t know each other very well to work together is probably one of the most unrealistic expectations ever.

That’s what people said about Tequatl, the Marionette fights, and, back when the game was in Beta/Launch, the fire elemental in Metrica. Stuff seems hard until people learn how it works. And then some will complain it’s too easy.

Because it honestly is really easy. People complain so much about the Boom Boom fight, but it all boils down to, don’t stand in the orange circles and kill the turret. People will catch on! Hopefully…

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Posted by: Alugjen Darlas.5329

Alugjen Darlas.5329

it’s actually a very simple reason. expecting hundreds of random people who don’t know each other very well to work together is probably one of the most unrealistic expectations ever.

Not rly no , as always Anet expects the Community’s to carry the masses .This game has a terribole way to teach ppl what to do and how example :Teq/TT/Mario.

[SC]Nine Inch Nose -205 Precurssors .

(edited by Alugjen Darlas.5329)

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Posted by: nexxe.7081

nexxe.7081

This is why raids went instanced. Old MMOs faced these same problems.
Open-world raiding/zerging doesn’t work that well, especially if it requires a lot of coordination.

They need to be easier, or they need to be instanced, otherwise they end up like Tequatl, Karka Queen, and Wurm events.

Yes, it needs to be dumbed down for the public, and all you elitists need instanced content.

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Posted by: Lambent.6375

Lambent.6375

Open world raids worked in daoc, but that’s generally because bosses were in places you wouldn’t normally find random players, and if people were headed there, it was generally with the goal of defeating said boss, so they were organized with a leader before hand, plus daoc had a lot more tools for coordination, example: alliances, so no concerns about joining a super guirld or something, mass group tools, etc.

“Caithe, someday you’ll see, Tyria needs me. -Scarlet”

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Posted by: Ilium.3160

Ilium.3160

I have tried to do the pavilion event multiple times. No server I have been in has been remotely organized and I have never even had the hint of receiving a gold reward. Now I won’t start complaining about the loot drops being terrible. But there has to be a better way to get tickets/tokens. I want to take part in the gauntlet but only have about 80 tickets, and my completely uninitiated self will not even know how to start fighting the bosses. Let alone have a chance to complete the achievements associated with the Living Story.

Why can’t those who want to participate actually get the chance to do so? Why have the tickets gated in such a way that you either have to have a bunch saved up or be incredibly lucky and land in a server that actually has a chance to complete the event quickly? As it is, it takes at least 30mins to do all the bosses for a chance at maybe 10 tickets. How is this having content open to anyone who wishes to play., and playing the way you want? This reeks of catering to elitists, which I thought this game was not supposed to be about.

I am very disappointed.

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Posted by: DeadlySynz.3471

DeadlySynz.3471

Well I just entered the pavillion tonight for the 1st time during prime time.. annnnnd it’s empty.

Now this event isn’t that old at the moment, but the fact that it’s empty should speak volumes on whether people think it’s too difficult, tedious, not rewarding, or not innovative.

I guess I can file this under achievements that aren’t doable.

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Posted by: Morte de Angelis.7986

Morte de Angelis.7986

server community,.

Yh, and they kittened that one up with Mega-Server
At least with Marionette you could count on people being there have been there before and as more time went on the more you could bet the more people knew what to do.

Yh. I wish I could have my Server Community back. But Anet have said “screw you”

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Posted by: tom.7468

tom.7468

why it doesn’t work you got less money when you left than when you came.
Pay for mobs to spawn no drops nice design.
I killed all the bosses 1 time and never entered again.

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Posted by: Lalocat.6793

Lalocat.6793

The problem is that the bosses are HP sponges and some of them have really annoying mechanics.

The Pirate? Fine, l2dodge
The Bandit? Ditto
The Destroyer? Accept that you’re gonna get downed
The Flame Legion? Accept taht you’re gonna die.
The Ogre? Hope you equipped the right weapon and aren’t using runes of fire, or you’re gonna be standing around a lot.
The centaur? Everyone loves bosses that run away and huge invulnerable chain knockdowns coming through.

I killed ogre with a handful of other people yesterday (we had been farming the ogresfor the achievement when he popped), used minions plus axe 1 + 2, ignored the birds, took zero damage unless I fell asleep and got hit by aoe. He doesn’t seem to attack other than the aoe, so the minions barely took damage being right on top of him.

Have seen a few failed attempts to organize, never seen better than bronze and I’ve spent a lot of time in the area doing gauntlet.

(edited by Lalocat.6793)

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Posted by: wingofbenu.4316

wingofbenu.4316

The new Crown Pavillion is working exactly as it’s supposed to. Those who’re willing to put in the extra effort to coordinate with their guild, server community, or game community at large can set up a farm for themselves where they can reap 8 champ bags and 50 festival tokens every ~20 minutes or so.

Which is bad for the game. This is not that game. There are other games that are about hardcore raiding kind of activities, this IS NOT THAT GAME. This is a FUN game, it’s one where you should be able to log in, enjoy yourself, and be rewarded, not one where the encounter becomes an hour long slog with NO rewards at the end of it because the server you happened to log into didn’t have six commanders and a bunch of well informed and organized players on it. I’ve spent about three hours running Boss Blitz, participated in about 9-12 boss kills personally, spent about 20-25 silver on WPing after death, and only ever seen about 4-5 tokens and 1-2 tickets in return for my efforts, NEVER a completion reward. It is probably the least satisfying time I’ve ever spent playing this game, and it absolutely ruined a night in which I did a lot of other very fun things that would otherwise have made it a great night of GW2.

Joining these communities is actually easier then most think. GW2Community for example. Just google it.

I Do Not Want to join a community. I could join a guild, I have no interest in doing so. I want my community to be whomever is on when I log in, I just want that to WORK, and that is on ANet to provide. I do not want content that requires coordination, the event itself should enforce whatever coordination it requires, not just fail you if you don’t provide that coordination yourself.

You do not have to join these communities, you just have to coordinate with them. All this requires is the barest amoutn of communication between you and others on the map.

You’re making this out to be like a hardcore raid when it’s not, you just need to be willing to work together with other people. With more effort than it takes to just stand next to them.

and you’re making it out to be way simpler than it is.

Being willing to cooperate helps, yes. But first you gotta find an instance either largely dominated by a mega-guild. or somehow luck into a instance with 30-40 other people willing to coordinate.

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Posted by: Astralporing.1957

Astralporing.1957

Has anyone tried making a map chat macro with detailed instructions? (in the case that someone is reading map chat).

Doesn’t work. Yesterday we were explaining to the zerg that killing turret on boom boom is essential, and why. Didn’t work. The only reason why we even managed to kill this boss and do the blitz (at bronze, of course) is because every player that read the chat left that boss and moved to another one (the people we left behind eventually ragequitted, letting us finish the event). The kicker? The people that listened… that was less than 1/4 of all people present.
If people cannot follow a simple instruction that is being pushed in their faces (/s visible speech popups), more detailed informations (or any more advanced tactics, like asking the group to split) will not help.

The fact, that most of people that remain are after achievements only (which is completely understandable) does not help either.

Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November

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Posted by: Zok.4956

Zok.4956

If people cannot follow a simple instruction that is being pushed in their faces (/s visible speech popups), more detailed informations (or any more advanced tactics, like asking the group to split) will not help.

Maybe it was not “pushed in their faces”, because (thanks to megaserver and the default-language-chat-filter) the people could not see what you were writing in chat?

Greetings.

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Posted by: Frotee.2634

Frotee.2634

…I think people are mostly failing to figure out how to do this properly because most don’t go back to it particularly often, as the loot is abysmal if you don’t get gold – and how would the normal, non forum-stalking player know that the loot gets much better when you play smart and get gold?
(Also because zerging was the way to go last year, so it may just not feel lika a new, ’I have to figure this out#-event to people)

Polka will never die

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Posted by: Thareen.5471

Thareen.5471

Well, we did a series with 13 runs with the guild today, all with 2-3 minutes left on gold reward. About 25-50% (more on later runs) of the participants were pugs… excuse me, randoms.
We took the time to explain it quickly in different languages (change client language accordingly) and it worked very well. Even when they had to stop dps most listened.
The one guy on my boss (boom) for example that continued to dps had a french guild name, so i just whispered him with “lé stop dps” and it actually worked.
Players actually can learn if you take the time and explain it to them in detail (don´t overdo it, TL;DR syndrome) and more importantly the reasons why (especially the maximum of 10 players per boss).

Edit: Totally forgot. Our guildrun was coordinated on Teamspeak obviously.
On the afternoon i helped on an french organized run and translated to english and german. Same principle like our run, just that i was not on the TS (french :/ ) and did not tag up. We got several times silver and a few gold & bronce. Lots of pugs. Still it did work, mostly.

(edited by Thareen.5471)

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Posted by: Serophous.9085

Serophous.9085

Maybe it’s just me, but the particle is overwhelming. All I see is a giant mess of mashed polygons that make it indecipherable to tell what is actually going in there. It is like we’re all attacking one big giant ball of scramble light spectrum’s. Just my 2 cents worth.

I’m using “best performance” settings. And I must say..no particle effects…..
________
anet should’ve learned from the knights. if you dont FORCE people to split, they won’t.

They need to do the same thing, colour buffs (or something) that allows you to fight said boss, and limit the number of people who can get that buff.

Another thing, ALOT of people have mapchat off, and it can be crucial to events like this, anet needs to force that on if people are in the vicinity of these events.

I agree. Marionette did it right with having to divide the zerg to defend five lanes, and the debuff. But the mini ones and now the boss marathon don’t force you, its optional, which doesn’t work, everyone zergs to ones boss.

And I don’t know what’s worse, the guy who thought of the idea to charge money to start an event, or the leader who approved it. Anet, take a page from Jon stewart, and hire a guy to sit at the table to raise his hand and say ‘that sounds like a bad idea’.

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Posted by: Astralporing.1957

Astralporing.1957

(Also because zerging was the way to go last year, so it may just not feel lika a new, ’I have to figure this out#-event to people)

It’s not even that. It is much simpler – lot of people do not like to be forced to cooperate with other people beyond very basic level. They come to this game not for challenges requiring an effort, but to kick back, disengage their minds and simply enjoy their time off work. They worked for 8 hours already, they do not want to repeat that in their free, rest time.

Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November

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Posted by: robertul.3679

robertul.3679

Add a map kick function like in dungeons. Oooorrr..make them actual dungeons. Crazy right? So you can pick the people you do stuff with instead of being forced to run with strangers who don’t care about anything.
But I guess in the end we’re all special and no man left behind!

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Posted by: Illconceived Was Na.9781

Illconceived Was Na.9781

There are plenty of games out there with traditional raiding. This one is relatively unusual in having open world events that require substantial coordination — that’s a new type of challenge and I really enjoy it.

Some people will always see this as being “forced to cooperate” or not being able to “just kick back and disengage their minds”. The game already has plenty that type of content in the way of most World Bosses and all champ/event-chain farms.

I’m glad ANet is continuing to introduce this type of content (and get better at it) and I’m looking forward to what else they have to offer in the future.

John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”

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Posted by: Mad Queen Malafide.7512

Mad Queen Malafide.7512

The Marionette did a lot more things right. If you were a bit slow at the Marionette, or failed a couple of chains, you could still get the full reward. There was no time wasted, and the rewards were really good.

If you waste any time at the Boss Blitz, you get the bronze reward, which is roughly equal to beating one or two champions in Frostgorge: A few greens for half an hour of work! Why would anyone in their right mind do the Boss Blitz? I don’t see the pay off.

“Madness is just another way to view reality”
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-On3Ya0_4Y)

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Posted by: blue.8629

blue.8629

Oh shut up, get in a guild or a community and jump to a map, organise the event and it’s easy. 6.3k tokens at the moment, and pretty much 10 champ bags every round. It’s not hard, if people are going to be lazy, you’re going to get nothing.

Blue… My name is a colour.

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Posted by: Xenesis.6389

Xenesis.6389

The problem here is Anet has been trying to design open zone raid events that require more communication and co-ordination, which is usually locked away in 10/25/40 man instances (like wow).

They started out designing encounters that needed a zerg to take out, and now they’ve switched and decided they want the zerg to split and work in smaller groups. Meanwhile you’re still pushed into zones with mostly random pugs, especially after the mega server implementation.

Maybe they’re trying to do an open zone version of wow’s LookingForRaid, where it’s made up of 25 pugs, except in wow’s case they make you fight one boss at a time, not six. Maybe next time anet should spawn enough people in certain paths of the pavilion before the event starts, first 10 people that zone in get placed in boss area 1, next 10 spawn in boss area 2, etc.

If they keep up this design trend they will start bringing out the elitist attitude of players, already see it in this thread, is that what we really want?

Another derailing post. ^^
North Keep: One of the village residents will now flee if their home is destroyed.
“Game over man, Game Over!” – RIP Bill

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Posted by: Tommyknocker.6089

Tommyknocker.6089

… snip Maybe next time anet should spawn enough people in certain paths of the pavilion before the event starts, first 10 people that zone in get placed in boss area 1, next 10 spawn in boss area 2, etc.snip…

Even as simple a method as a gate with red/green particle effect that tells players what boss could use more players would have sufficed. Players need to be told what to do in most cases and no good loot plus confusing victory conditions will make many just not bother.

I am glad that ANet listened to us and made the loot better in the last patch, but the fact still remains that they need to work on directing the players better.

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Posted by: Xenesis.6389

Xenesis.6389

Even as simple a method as a gate with red/green particle effect that tells players what boss could use more players would have sufficed. Players need to be told what to do in most cases and no good loot plus confusing victory conditions will make many just not bother.

I am glad that ANet listened to us and made the loot better in the last patch, but the fact still remains that they need to work on directing the players better.

Pretty much, they should have listed the objectives better, and why not list all 6 boss health bars? as I recall they did that for the 3 knights in the LA event. Anet is being just as lazy as the players in this case, if you want to start teaching players to be better and break the zerg mentality which they promoted in the first place, then they need to start giving better instructions.

They could have even setup a gate like have people kill mobs during downtime in the area they want to be in before the boss spawns, the top 10 killers of those mobs spawn by that boss, go down all 6 bosses to spawn players, and then the rest get randomly placed in the areas that still needs players, now go you have 7 mins to kill them.

Another derailing post. ^^
North Keep: One of the village residents will now flee if their home is destroyed.
“Game over man, Game Over!” – RIP Bill

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Posted by: domness.6719

domness.6719

I’m sorry but getting gold each time isn’t exactly hard. Was just in an overflow and we got gold like 12 times in a row. We didn’t always have 6 commanders, and everything went really smoothly. Killing the bosses in sync and having 1-2 minutes to spare at the end.

It’s not hard content, in fact, it’s bloody easy. And to get 2-6 T6 mats, plus all the other loot every 7-8 minutes is sweet.

Quit crying that you can’t do it and that it’s too hard and ANet needs to change things.

[OP] Optimise

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Posted by: Xenesis.6389

Xenesis.6389

Well congratulations to you, not everyone is fortunate to get into the right overflow of players. Was in there the first two days for a few hours each time, never had more than 2 commanders on, and a bunch of afkers in the middle, never enough to spread for more than two bosses.

Another derailing post. ^^
North Keep: One of the village residents will now flee if their home is destroyed.
“Game over man, Game Over!” – RIP Bill

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Posted by: domness.6719

domness.6719

Well congratulations to you, not everyone is fortunate to get into the right overflow of players. Was in there the first two days for a few hours each time, never had more than 2 commanders on, and a bunch of afkers in the middle, never enough to spread for more than two bosses.

It’s not going to be great in the first two days for obvious reasons. It takes time to get into peoples heads on how to do it

[OP] Optimise

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Posted by: AnAspieKitten.5732

AnAspieKitten.5732

How does it not work? I think it amazing.
5 other Commanders and I just organized and progressed all the way up to 30 seconds off of Gold. It isn’t hard.
Just don’t be lazy and command better.
It’s a step in the right direction compared to last years follow the Dorito and zerg type of thing.
I love the Pavilion this time around.
Just stop expecting to get everything handed to you without working for it.

Yeah, I too always end up on a six commander server.

Dear Santa,
For christmas I’d like to get a crossbow for my characters.
With love, a cute kitty.

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Posted by: Illconceived Was Na.9781

Illconceived Was Na.9781

Well congratulations to you, not everyone is fortunate to get into the right overflow of players. Was in there the first two days for a few hours each time, never had more than 2 commanders on, and a bunch of afkers in the middle, never enough to spread for more than two bosses.

It’s not going to be great in the first two days for obvious reasons. It takes time to get into peoples heads on how to do it

Right. It took time for the high-pop servers to do this reliably and then more time for overflows to manage it. The first week went from people claiming it was impossible (another ANet fail to developer open-world raids) to claiming only the big servers could do it to people hoping to get on an overflow, because those were less likely to have AFKers.

John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”

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Posted by: Paradox.1380

Paradox.1380

it’s actually a very simple reason. expecting hundreds of random people who don’t know each other very well to work together is probably one of the most unrealistic expectations ever.

Works Just Fine. Say hello to my over 300 Champ boxes in about 3.5 hours the other night with completely random people.

-It’s Lady Paradox- Sweet Adrenaline
“What Part Of Living Says You Gotta Die?
I Plan On Burnin Through Another 9 Lives”

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Posted by: Tommyknocker.6089

Tommyknocker.6089

it’s actually a very simple reason. expecting hundreds of random people who don’t know each other very well to work together is probably one of the most unrealistic expectations ever.

Works Just Fine. Say hello to my over 300 Champ boxes in about 3.5 hours the other night with completely random people.

Well I would love to get into that megaserver instance. The only ones I seem to get into after logging in numerous time to try and find a good one are sitting at bronze with only a few dead. And the last one I did that a few of us managed to kill the ogre and I never got credit for the total event. Total bust from my end, but I am glad you are rolling in the boxes. Just out of curiosity are you EU or NA?

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Posted by: Taygus.4571

Taygus.4571

it’s actually a very simple reason. expecting hundreds of random people who don’t know each other very well to work together is probably one of the most unrealistic expectations ever.

Works Just Fine. Say hello to my over 300 Champ boxes in about 3.5 hours the other night with completely random people.

Well I would love to get into that megaserver instance. The only ones I seem to get into after logging in numerous time to try and find a good one are sitting at bronze with only a few dead. And the last one I did that a few of us managed to kill the ogre and I never got credit for the total event. Total bust from my end, but I am glad you are rolling in the boxes. Just out of curiosity are you EU or NA?

LFG tool = organised pav pretty easily.
EU

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Posted by: guardian.6489

guardian.6489

Ya guys use the LFG tool. Just checked in NA and there’s 2 posts about organizing a Blitz. More people are starting to use it to get gold instances going

Retired Leader of TTS

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Posted by: Blaeys.3102

Blaeys.3102

As Taygus said above (and in another thread) – people are using the lfg tool to find and taxi people to an organized map.

I tried it – it works.

Most of the time, if people stop complaining for 20 seconds and look for a solution, they will find one (and the rest of us dont have to hear as much childish complaining ).

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Posted by: Bigglesworth.8249

Bigglesworth.8249

(Also because zerging was the way to go last year, so it may just not feel lika a new, ’I have to figure this out#-event to people)

It’s not even that. It is much simpler – lot of people do not like to be forced to cooperate with other people beyond very basic level. They come to this game not for challenges requiring an effort, but to kick back, disengage their minds and simply enjoy their time off work. They worked for 8 hours already, they do not want to repeat that in their free, rest time.

Can’t +1 this enough.

- Taking up eSports Bandwidth
Maguuma

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Posted by: Aidan.4602

Aidan.4602

I went there without any knowledge, joined random commander which said needs melee, followed him, killed the boss when everyone was at 5-10% (people said they will tell us when should we land the last strike) and got gold at my first try in the new Pavillion. It didn’t force me to cooperate at the high level, I didn’t have to use teamspeak and was just relaxing after a tiring day. And I must say I enjoyed it. Watching people cheer in the chat every time we get gold makes me feel cozy inside, even though it’s not hard at all.

Note: I randomly joined a random instance of the Pavillion and randomly people began speaking about tagging, etc. No prior coordination.

Aidan Vilesight, a Charr engineer – Desolation