Guild Wars 2

I enjoy Fractals well enough, I do, but asking players to run four Fractals in a row, even the very shortest, is too much time investment. ONE fractal is plenty. If you want players playing more fractals, that’s how you do it, drop the “four in a row” business entirely.

If you want to force players to complete the fractals that they don’t enjoy, like the Dredge fractals, in order to get the final rewards, then just use some sort of lock-out system. Let players pick the fractals they want to do, and each fractal completed offers a key, and three keys are needed to unlock the boss battles, but you can’t get a key from a fractal you’ve already done until you clear each of them once, meaning you can do them in any order you want, and take as long as you want to do them, all at once, once per day, even one per week, but you’ll need to do each at least once before you can start over again.

Similar mechanics are already used in the Nightmare Tower.

It’s been like that for a whole year now and people actually like it (since it’s the first time I read this in about a year and people tend to repeat what they don’t like over time). So well, you seem quite isolated.

Regarding your issue itself, I understand it, but i don’t agree with it. Fractals are mini dungeons. Fractals don’t ask you to play a complete dungeon, but only a sequence of small dungeons.

I also understand that you want to play the fractal you want in the “tier”. If everybody would do that, no one would ever play dredge again. The current implementation is not a bad thing as it forces you to play some fractals no matter what. You don’t like it? Well, restart and hope for the better, but making sure that each fractal is played actually makes you better since you learn the new mechanics.

The dredge fractal and the volcano one are difficult fractals and I’m really happy they are in the game as I get challenge. If you played dredges in level 48 and got the bomb path, man… you’d understand the pain we were through… but also, we got experience from the 47 previous fractals we played.

So just bear with it and if you like fractals enough to play for one year, you’ll eventually appreciate the dredge fractal for what it is. Note that I didn’t say “like it”

Also, if you could choose all your levels, everybody would be playing something like:
- Swamp
- Snowblind/Ascalon
- Not Dredge!
- Maw
This would be ridiculously easy

Fractal runs take about a hour pre-patch in a good, organised group. My record is 45mins and I’m sure people can beat that.

I don’t mind the current way of Fractals. Even assuming you are very slow, there is nothing wrong with content taking 1-2 hours to complete, as long as there is a decent system in place to ensure accidental disconnects or the like does not mess things up. Not everything should be rushed in 7 minutes or less.

2 hours is kind of the limit as to how long you can expect people to sit in front of their computer without any break.

Fror.2163:

It’s been like that for a whole year now and people actually like it (since it’s the first time I read this in about a year and people tend to repeat what they don’t like over time). So well, you seem quite isolated.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Fractals-took-WAY-too-long/
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Dredge-Fractal-TOO-LONG
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/livingworld/fractured/Can-all-fractals-aim-for-a-15-min-duration/

IMO, the problem is with PUGs (and also the dredge fractal). I’ve seen groups just give up in the middle of it because it was taking too long.

I agree fractals at higher levels is too long.

There are some good health and safety guidelines which are published by the UK Goverment:
http://www.hse.gov.uk/contact/faqs/vdubreaks.htm

“short, frequent breaks are more satisfactory than occasional, longer breaks: e.g., a 5-10 minute break after 50-60 minutes continuous screen and/or keyboard work is likely to be better than a 15 minute break every 2 hours;”

All content should be designed with health and safety in mind.
These recommendations exist for good reasons.

Unfortunately if you even think of taking a break within a pug run this can often result in being kicked or flamed.
Yes – I have experienced this during a 3hr+ run when taking a small <3 min break (not running with that group again). A 10 min break being agreed by an entire team is highly unlikely hence you will get kicked.

Zanshin, the quote you took is not about it being long, but about it being 3-4 in a row. All your references speak about the dredge fractal only.

Fror.2163:

Zanshin, the quote you took is not about it being long, but about it being 3-4 in a row. All your references speak about the dredge fractal only.

No, they don’t.
Did you even go to the links? Only the second one is about the dredge.

Only one of the thread says the whole fractal run is too long. The other two complain about individual fractals. Also, if you tell me to read, I invite you to read my initial reply so you can stop your nitpicking. Finally, one thread every X months isn’t a real problem. Unlike the TA F/U problem which laed the dungeon forum to be flooded of those, for instance.

So I repeat, it’s not a real problem. A very small amount of players want less than 4 fractals. A lot more of players want the dredge fractal shortened.

Fror.2163:

Also, if you could choose all your levels, everybody would be playing something like:
- Swamp
- Snowblind/Ascalon
- Not Dredge!
- Maw
This would be ridiculously easy

Maybe. It would be at least fun. While having to go through the Grawl/Colossus/Dredge/Molten combo would be much more difficult, but no fun at all.

No, the 4 fractals chained together are not a problem. Some of the fractals do need to be shortened significantly, though. In fact, from dev comments i was fully expecting those to be redone already in this patch. What we got instead is some “fixes” to dredge that made everything even longer. And two 4th fractal alternatives that are both longer than Maw.

I think their current implementation is one of the few things they didn’t mess with in this patch.

The current implementation being, according to Dulfy,

• Fractal 1: Underwater, Swamp, Urban Battleground, Uncategorized
• Fractal 2: Uncategorized, Snowblind, Urban Battleground, Molten Furnace, Cliffside
• Fractal 3: Aetherblade, Grawl, Thaumanova Reactor, Dredge, Cliffside.
• Boss Fractal: Jade Maw, Molten Berserker & Dredge Firestorm, Mai Trin & Captain Horrik

Though I foresee that Uncategorized will be rerolled if seen as first.

You are sure to not get Grawl and Dredge! You can still get Cliffside and dredge or Cliffside and Grawl, but that’s about it. As I said, I can’t play currently, so I don’t know how the two new boss fractals are positioned on the difficulty scale, but I See this as an improvement already.

I can agree if I’m going to spend time into working some well conceived mechanics, but Dredge is pretty much just boring trash – past the switches – and the waves at midboss are just ./yawn bore/snore repeatitive, too long = annoying. Then ppl lose focus and it all feels heavier.

Fror.2163:

I think their current implementation is one of the few things they didn’t mess with in this patch.

The current implementation being, according to Dulfy,

• Fractal 1: Underwater, Swamp, Urban Battleground, Uncategorized
• Fractal 2: Uncategorized, Snowblind, Urban Battleground, Molten Furnace, Cliffside
• Fractal 3: Aetherblade, Grawl, Thaumanova Reactor, Dredge, Cliffside.
• Boss Fractal: Jade Maw, Molten Berserker & Dredge Firestorm, Mai Trin & Captain Horrik

Though I foresee that Uncategorized will be rerolled if seen as first.

You are sure to not get Grawl and Dredge! You can still get Cliffside and dredge or Cliffside and Grawl, but that’s about it. As I said, I can’t play currently, so I don’t know how the two new boss fractals are positioned on the difficulty scale, but I See this as an improvement already.

Uncategorized had harpies numbers reduced making it less painful for teams without enough reflections though swamp is still the fastest and now you can roll it even quicker thanks to the smaller pool.

I would say that urban battleground does not belong in the first tier but that might be because of memories of this fractal at scales 70+.

I would also argue that volcanic should be in the second tier instead of cliffside, it is much faster.

Now that the npcs are immune to ashyms agony you can just afk that boss on urban. So yeah, its worthy of first tier since its been nerfed. The annoying thing is that the npcs now yolo charge into the siege even if you stay back and dont do anything. So no more pulling groups to the stairs.

Also on cliffside, the groups take longer to respawn so you have plenty of time after clearing a wave to run in and hit the seal before any mobs attack the hammer carrier. Will make it much easier on high levels.

Let’s not speak for everyone and say “no one thinks like you so you’re wrong”.

My personal experience is that it’s hard to get a guild fractal group together because they take too long. Guildies say it a lot. It’s an all-or-nothing thing. Doing a single fractal and leaving would baffle anyone you suggested it to.

This update made them even longer, and the Jade Maw fight is now the easy one. I really think they should either break them up somehow, like the OP said, or else make it a string of 3 fractals instead of 4. (2 regular, 1 boss)

I hate when you played hard run, and 3rd fractal got bugged.. and you lost insane amount of time for nothing.

spoj.9672:

Now that the npcs are immune to ashyms agony you can just afk that boss on urban. So yeah, its worthy of first tier since its been nerfed. The annoying thing is that the npcs now yolo charge into the siege even if you stay back and dont do anything. So no more pulling groups to the stairs.

Also on cliffside, the groups take longer to respawn so you have plenty of time after clearing a wave to run in and hit the seal before any mobs attack the hammer carrier. Will make it much easier on high levels.

You can also facetank both Ashyn’s agony and meteor shower. Does not change the fact that fractals should be divided by length, not just difficulty.

It’s not like underground is hard.

I liked it the way it was before. 4th fractal only on even numbers. That way if you wanted to level up a little faster, you could just do odd levels and not have to deal with maw (and now the other two) every kitten time you do fractals.

Regarding your issue itself, I understand it, but i don’t agree with it. Fractals are mini dungeons. Fractals don’t ask you to play a complete dungeon, but only a sequence of small dungeons.

If that’s the goal, then they’ve missed the mark someplace, because each Fractal takes about as long as most dungeons I bother with. Four of them in a row takes at least twice as long as a normal dungeon, if not four times as long.

I also understand that you want to play the fractal you want in the “tier”. If everybody would do that, no one would ever play dredge again. The current implementation is not a bad thing as it forces you to play some fractals no matter what. You don’t like it? Well, restart and hope for the better, but making sure that each fractal is played actually makes you better since you learn the new mechanics.

I listed a way that would allow them to continue to force players to run the worst fractals if they want that, it just would allow players to do them on their own time table, rather than having to set aside an hour or more in a single stretch.

Maybe read the post before commenting on it next time.

So I repeat, it’s not a real problem. A very small amount of players want less than 4 fractals. A lot more of players want the dredge fractal shortened.

Can’t they do both? Last night I ran Uncategorized, Snowblind, Cliffside, and Molten Bosses, which was a very nice mix as far as Fractals go, and we had very few setbacks (at one point the hammer vanished n Cliffside and we had to wipe to get it back), but it still takes too long.

I played some fractals when they first came out, and dabbled in them a bit after that, I know all the old ones well enough that I can get through them, I just can’t be bothered due to the long time between start and finish. I play roughly two hours a day, but I like to move around and do a lot of different things in the world. Running Fractals for even half that time is just more than I’d care to devote to it.

To be honest, I wish they would have created entirely different system. Why must we do 4 fractals in a row? I know current system is designed like this but it could also be done differently. Now your difficulty is mostly based on getting good maps.

For example you could just choose which Fractal to play but you had to meet specific requirements to advance to higher scales (like do all maps in that scale or get enough “fractal experience” or something, not going to put too much thought because it won’t be implemented anyway). This would also allow hand-tailoring instabilities.

And then of course shortening longer Fractals (like second Seal on Cliffside and Clown Cart on Underground Facility).

Wait til you try cliffside with Outflanked

+1 to the OP, definitely agree with. 2 (fractal + boss) would be plenty.

Fror.2163:

It’s been like that for a whole year now and people actually like it…

The time required is one of the reasons why I rarely do them. Thirty minutes is enough. Anything more than that and people start dropping out of the party for one reason or another.

IMO, one fractal at a time, by choice, is a fine idea. At the very least Anet will figure out once and for all which fractals are really poorly designed because players simply wont play the fractals they don’t like. Looking at you Dredge…

For what it’s worth, I really dislike falling to my death too, the other reason why I don’t normally do fractals or the jumping puzzles. That is absolutely enough of that!

time required is a huge problem for me now. Previously I had plenty of time, but now I don’t and so when I can get time to jump on the game, I just can’t spend 2-3 hours anymore on fractals. I really had hoped they had shortened them some.

One other solution I just thought of would be this, split each Fractal in half.

For Uncategorized, split it after the poison boss.
For Cliffside split it after the torso seal.
For Underground, split it after the clown car.
For Volcano, split it after the first Shaman fight.
For Snowblind split it after the Blizzard fight.
Urban, Underwater, and Swamp they can probably leave alone.

So each of them is made into two Fractals, then, the order of Fractals would be :
1. One of the “first half” Fractals, ending with a mini-boss or mini-challenge.
2. One of the “second half” Fractals, essentially a “mid boss.”
3. Another of the “first half” fractals.
4. A final boss Fractal.

That would be a nice balance, I think, it would take roughly half as long as the current model, would still have the element of change and force you into the less popular Fractals, still have the “survival mode” element, etc.

Dungeons allow time flexibility & are mostly accomplished with rush~ stack ~melee & no added obstacles like AR or JPs yet they are rewarded on par or more for A LOT less time.

The added expense/time of of acquiring AR that is ONLY required for FoM is a gold sink unless a player really enjoys FoM or there is something available in there that makes it inviting for the masses ( FoM weapon skins or yet another forever tonic are not it lol). The new additions don’t do that. A novelty that either will be completely avoided or lose it’s luster within a cpl of weeks. Then we return to the masses avoiding it again.
Adding new JPs in there isn’t considered a more exciting, more challenging FoM for those of us who truly love FoM~ it is just another thing for sloppy mistakes or off days of ourselves or other members to make, in an already LONG time commitment, more frustrating & sadly another thing over demanding rush parties will use to justify why they kicked a member 3 paths in & replace them with a guildy for the daily reward.

While I can appreciate the AR progression addition or some new bosses, FoM really is NOT worth the time investment & nothing added justifies that option over others available on a regular basis. Some players would like to do MORE than just spend their allotted game time in FoM. The dungeon allow them the freedom to run a path or two daily & still make it for guild events & some WvW/Spvp. FoM is too inflexible for such little return.

What they really need, is better rewards throughout. Right now, I’m running for an ascended backpiece, and due to how boss fractals work, I get around 50 fractal relics from them, but only 7 from other fractals. I get roughly 66 fractal relics per run. Why not give 15 relics per fractal and only 21 at the end of each run?