Guild Wars 2

Problem: It’s great for people who have 90 mins to 2+ hrs to spend in one straight session. It’s beyond awful for people who can’t spend that amount of time. Running dredge over and over and over and over again is just unfun.

Solution: Please reduce daily FotM runs to 2 fractals.

Err, are you just doing it for the daily? You know you can just complete 1 Fractal for that, right? It’s not the full 4 Fractals?

+1 reduce it. It’s so hard to get people to do it because it feels like the longest activity a group can do together. And there’s no way to predict how long it will take. Could be 45 mins, could be 3 hours.

People usually can’t allocate 3 hours to things, and don’t want to do 1 hour and let someone else finish and get their reward.

Perhaps introduce the ability to choose shorter number of fractals, with rewards increasing for the more you do in a row? From 1 – 6 or the like?

how to reduce the time fractals need:

1) Remove dredge fractal.

END. WIN

Fractals are however made for people that does have time. If you don’t have time to spare there are loads of other stuff that can be done (such as the 8 other dungeons and such).

Not everything in the game can cater to everyone.

How does FotM take longer now than it used to? The only thing that changed was making it harder to get longer fractals together, that just shortens the time overall. The only thing that made the dredge fractal “harder” is that they got rid of the die on the switch “exploit”. With all of the PUGs I’ve been running with over the past 2 or so weeks we still get the dredge control panel on the first or second try in the 35-39 fractal range.

Edit: Unless you’re talking about them adding a 4th fractal to every run, which does increase the total time, but at least you get rewarded every level now, which I think is an improvement.

I think it’s just the influx of new people into fractals have made the quality of groups very volatile. Groups are now more often going to take longer for certain fractals as a result. As people adjust and learn the fractals, things will get better.

Last I checked the daily only required running 1 fractal. As in you can do the first one and everyone can leave. Plus if you do everything on FoTM1 then it shouldn’t take anywhere near 2hrs, regardless of which fractals you get. Unless you have a really bad team.

what ? getting a daily chest only requires you to do one lvl (say swamp), instead of having to do the the 4 levels and beat the boss level ? Or when you say “daily” you’re just referring to the achievement and not the daily bonus chest ?

The OP is referring to the daily chest; not the achievement.

dredge was the fractal my guild farmed for a little while.
in short:
kept rolling until dredge level 20 or so
get through doors quickly
kill mob of dredge
open door to the drilling machine quickly
kill champ and the dredge that spawn
leave and repeat
we would each get like 30 heavy miner’s bags in 15 so minutes, plus a few other items that were random. could either sell them for 4.4s or open for equivalent materials.
gave about 5g/hour just in bags

The problem with fractals is it’s generally lower levels that suffer from this the most.
Most players in the low levels aren’t experienced enough for quick runs so it’s a learning curve.
A solution could be to make fractals optional. Having a single path completion with a single dungeon reward. For each consecutive run, another dungeon reward is given and for 3 consecutive runs a daily reward is given.
Obviously shorter fractals would need to be altered or the reward made specific and in proportion to the fractal completed (otherwise people would farm swamp dungeon reward for e.g).
But we all know this would never happen, it would make too much sense.

Bagel.4598:

The problem with fractals is it’s generally lower levels that suffer from this the most.
Most players in the low levels aren’t experienced enough for quick runs so it’s a learning curve.
A solution could be to make fractals optional. Having a single path completion with a single dungeon reward. For each consecutive run, another dungeon reward is given and for 3 consecutive runs a daily reward is given.
Obviously shorter fractals would need to be altered or the reward made specific and in proportion to the fractal completed (otherwise people would farm swamp dungeon reward for e.g).
But we all know this would never happen, it would make too much sense.

How does changing the way fractals work make sense? If you want your 15min speed clears, dungeons are already in the game. Fractals weren’t that hard when they were introduced and the lower levels haven’t got any harder since then. If anything people would have ascended trinkets now to give their stats a small boost.

And as to explain what to do if someone doesn’t know, isn’t that being part of the community. I skipped flames and frost, so I never did that mini dungeon, yet after a <30s explanation I was fine doing them on mid 30s.

No. People would just pick or choose the fractals. The fractals from 1-9 are incredibly easy and leave a lot of room for errors. The problem is that people are often skipping these. I constantly see people with lower personal reward levels in the 10-19 tier. They’re pretty obvious about it in chat.

Wallace MacBix.2089:

Bagel.4598:

The problem with fractals is it’s generally lower levels that suffer from this the most.
Most players in the low levels aren’t experienced enough for quick runs so it’s a learning curve.
A solution could be to make fractals optional. Having a single path completion with a single dungeon reward. For each consecutive run, another dungeon reward is given and for 3 consecutive runs a daily reward is given.
Obviously shorter fractals would need to be altered or the reward made specific and in proportion to the fractal completed (otherwise people would farm swamp dungeon reward for e.g).
But we all know this would never happen, it would make too much sense.

Lmfao there’s always one.

How does changing the way fractals work make sense? If you want your 15min speed clears, dungeons are already in the game. Fractals weren’t that hard when they were introduced and the lower levels haven’t got any harder since then. If anything people would have ascended trinkets now to give their stats a small boost.

And as to explain what to do if someone doesn’t know, isn’t that being part of the community. I skipped flames and frost, so I never did that mini dungeon, yet after a <30s explanation I was fine doing them on mid 30s.

Wallace MacBix.2089:

Bagel.4598:

The problem with fractals is it’s generally lower levels that suffer from this the most.
Most players in the low levels aren’t experienced enough for quick runs so it’s a learning curve.
A solution could be to make fractals optional. Having a single path completion with a single dungeon reward. For each consecutive run, another dungeon reward is given and for 3 consecutive runs a daily reward is given.
Obviously shorter fractals would need to be altered or the reward made specific and in proportion to the fractal completed (otherwise people would farm swamp dungeon reward for e.g).
But we all know this would never happen, it would make too much sense.

How does changing the way fractals work make sense? If you want your 15min speed clears, dungeons are already in the game. Fractals weren’t that hard when they were introduced and the lower levels haven’t got any harder since then. If anything people would have ascended trinkets now to give their stats a small boost.

And as to explain what to do if someone doesn’t know, isn’t that being part of the community. I skipped flames and frost, so I never did that mini dungeon, yet after a <30s explanation I was fine doing them on mid 30s.

Lmfao there’s always one.

Wallace MacBix.2089:

How does FotM take longer now than it used to? The only thing that changed was making it harder to get longer fractals together, that just shortens the time overall. The only thing that made the dredge fractal “harder” is that they got rid of the die on the switch “exploit”. With all of the PUGs I’ve been running with over the past 2 or so weeks we still get the dredge control panel on the first or second try in the 35-39 fractal range.

Edit: Unless you’re talking about them adding a 4th fractal to every run, which does increase the total time, but at least you get rewarded every level now, which I think is an improvement.

You are horribly mistaken.

Putting the fractals in grouping now makes it so you have 0% chance to get the 3 easy ones in a row. If you got swamp>water/urban>frozen you could easily fly through it. That combination is no longer possible. One of the old worst case scenarios like sawmp>Cliff>Dredge is much more likely to occur.

Also, they added more dredge to dredge. Because they must have read “We want more dredge!” everytime somebody complained about fractals.

I think they are taking longer now. It’s actually good to have to rethink your play to adapt to the fractal disturbance. If you wipe, then rethink tactics and wipe again, then refine the tactics and win, that’s ok. Well it is ok until you have multiple boss encounters in four successive fractals that all need a rethink for new tactics. Then it’s just far too long.

Once people release guides then those ways will become the new meta on how to do the fractal(s). It’s no different than when they revamped AC and people were constantly failing at spider queen until someone found a way to kitten the mechanic and stack in a corner to faceroll it.

Ayrilana.1396:

Once people release guides then those ways will become the new meta on how to do the fractal(s). It’s no different than when they revamped AC and people were constantly failing at spider queen until someone found a way to kitten the mechanic and stack in a corner to faceroll it.

I agree it’s similar, but there are certain aspects that make it worse. The guides will help with instabilities.

However the guides will not help with the rounds being categorized into round 1>2>3 etc. And guides will also not remove the additional amount of dredge that was put into the round.

Ethics.4519:

Putting the fractals in grouping now makes it so you have 0% chance to get the 3 easy ones in a row. If you got swamp>water/urban>frozen you could easily fly through it. That combination is no longer possible. One of the old worst case scenarios like sawmp>Cliff>Dredge is much more likely to occur.

Also, they added more dredge to dredge. Because they must have read “We want more dredge!” everytime somebody complained about fractals.

Ability to get 3 easy ones in a row made fractals very unbalanced, it’s much better now, though I’m not sure why they put uncategorized into first pool, because it’s long and annoying and will get re-rolled 99 % of the time. Cliffside in second pool is pretty bad too. Dredge needs to be reworked from scratch, just about everything about it, except from final boss.

Ayrilana.1396:

Once people release guides then those ways will become the new meta on how to do the fractal(s). It’s no different than when they revamped AC and people were constantly failing at spider queen until someone found a way to kitten the mechanic and stack in a corner to faceroll it.

That’s utter crap. Fractals was and is nothing like other pve. There may be certain ways to do it, and those ways have hardly changed. But just because a group goes through he right motions doesn’t mean they can face roll it like any other dungeon.
With instabilities and mob scaling fractals is about knowing when and which skills to use which is hugely diverse among pug groups.
If 1 member of the group isn’t using necessary damage mitigation or isn’t outputting the expected dps it will show.
That’s why people get kicked.
Fractals is about individual skill making up a solid team which is why lower levels tend to be slower and less efficient.
Pre patch and post patch to an extent in 30-40+ were usually faster and smoother due to a better overall individual performance.
No random guide or meta will compensate for that unless it is game breaking.

Ethics.4519:

Ayrilana.1396:

Once people release guides then those ways will become the new meta on how to do the fractal(s). It’s no different than when they revamped AC and people were constantly failing at spider queen until someone found a way to kitten the mechanic and stack in a corner to faceroll it.

I agree it’s similar, but there are certain aspects that make it worse. The guides will help with instabilities.

However the guides will not help with the rounds being categorized into round 1>2>3 etc. And guides will also not remove the additional amount of dredge that was put into the round.

Yes guides won’t help with the order. Just like how they didn’t help before the update when the order was random.

Guides will help with the dredge when they reveal new strategies on how to get past the obstacles people are currently struggling with.

Bagel.4598:

Ayrilana.1396:

Once people release guides then those ways will become the new meta on how to do the fractal(s). It’s no different than when they revamped AC and people were constantly failing at spider queen until someone found a way to kitten the mechanic and stack in a corner to faceroll it.

That’s utter crap. Fractals was and is nothing like other pve. There may be certain ways to do it, and those ways have hardly changed. But just because a group goes through he right motions doesn’t mean they can face roll it like any other dungeon.
With instabilities and mob scaling fractals is about knowing when and which skills to use which is hugely diverse among pug groups.
If 1 member of the group isn’t using necessary damage mitigation or isn’t outputting the expected dps it will show.
That’s why people get kicked.
Fractals is about individual skill making up a solid team which is why lower levels tend to be slower and less efficient.
Pre patch and post patch to an extent in 30-40+ were usually faster and smoother due to a better overall individual performance.
No random guide or meta will compensate for that unless it is game breaking.

I do agree with you that it’s nothing like open world PvE where people can just zerg to win. However, fractals are pretty much the same as dungeons. They’re in a slightly different format but essentially the same. There is the addition of agony resistance, which can be negated with AR, and instabilities.

Instabilities do not really change the overall methodology to overcome obstacles. If you have to stand on two pressure plates to open up a cage for someone to use a switch to open of a door, instabilities do not change this. They’re just another handicap for you to overcome. I guess another example would be for the Queen’s Gauntlet and those handicaps.

Obviously seeing/reading about something is much different than actually doing something. I assumed that everyone knew this so I did not add that clarification in my post. I was unfortunately mistaken for choosing not to do so and I apologize for the confusion I created for you.

The actual point that I was trying to make in that post was that people were struggling when AC got revamped and they couldn’t get past the spider queen. Someone came up with the idea you could stack in the corner and completely negate the only thing that was dangerous about her fight; the poison pools. People learned to do this and can now, for the most part, efficiently do it every time. To summarize: people struggled, someone came up with a solution, people attempted it and eventually got it down.

It’s no different than what will likely occur with the fractals. Someone will find a better way to get past an obstacle (e.g. dredge bomb room), it doesn’t matter whether it’s an exploit or not, and that strategy will become the new meta. Like everything, it will take practice to do it, but people will get the hang of it. Nothing in this game is really that difficult.

Yes an individuals skill level contributes to the success of a team assuming they’re working together as a team. A guide helps them out as they will know how to do something which is where groups in lower fractals struggle a lot. I know that the 1-9 tier groups struggle because people don’t know how to do the fractals. The fractals tend to be very easy at this level so the struggle is mitigated to a degree.

Learning to play your class correctly and work as a team is something that is not unique to just fractals. People have posted guides on builds and effective strategies that they use to mitigate damage and help their teams. Just look at some of the video guides where people actually walk you through some instances in dungeons/fractals and how they handle it.

Every Fractal should be the Dredge Fractal.

Ayrilana.1396:

Yes guides won’t help with the order. Just like how they didn’t help before the update when the order was random.

Guides will help with the dredge when they reveal new strategies on how to get past the obstacles people are currently struggling with.

Guides have been out since a little bit after release. Fractals ins’t new. Tons of guides on dredge (I used strifey’s videos) and people still complain constantly.

Seveleniumus.5973:

Ability to get 3 easy ones in a row made fractals very unbalanced, it’s much better now, though I’m not sure why they put uncategorized into first pool, because it’s long and annoying and will get re-rolled 99 % of the time. Cliffside in second pool is pretty bad too. Dredge needs to be reworked from scratch, just about everything about it, except from final boss.

The discussion is about how it takes longer now. You are correct as it was unbalanced. But it takes longer now. So congrats for you on arguing a point that doesn’t matter.

That’s how long they’ve always taken. It’s actually slightly better because aether and molten fractals are on the short side.

Ethics.4519:

Ayrilana.1396:

Yes guides won’t help with the order. Just like how they didn’t help before the update when the order was random.

Guides will help with the dredge when they reveal new strategies on how to get past the obstacles people are currently struggling with.

Guides have been out since a little bit after release. Fractals ins’t new. Tons of guides on dredge (I used strifey’s videos) and people still complain constantly.

People will always complain and there’s nothing to stop that. I was referring to guides that show new strategies. The thing with old guides is that they only account for one way to specifically do something. This may or may not be the best way. People see the guide, assume it’s the best or only way, and it becomes the meta.

Ayrilana.1396:

Bagel.4598:

Ayrilana.1396:

Once people release guides then those ways will become the new meta on how to do the fractal(s). It’s no different than when they revamped AC and people were constantly failing at spider queen until someone found a way to kitten the mechanic and stack in a corner to faceroll it.

That’s utter crap. Fractals was and is nothing like other pve. There may be certain ways to do it, and those ways have hardly changed. But just because a group goes through he right motions doesn’t mean they can face roll it like any other dungeon.
With instabilities and mob scaling fractals is about knowing when and which skills to use which is hugely diverse among pug groups.
If 1 member of the group isn’t using necessary damage mitigation or isn’t outputting the expected dps it will show.
That’s why people get kicked.
Fractals is about individual skill making up a solid team which is why lower levels tend to be slower and less efficient.
Pre patch and post patch to an extent in 30-40+ were usually faster and smoother due to a better overall individual performance.
No random guide or meta will compensate for that unless it is game breaking.

The actual point that I was trying to make in that post was that people were struggling when AC got revamped and they couldn’t get past the spider queen. Someone came up with the idea you could stack in the corner and completely negate the only thing that was dangerous about her fight; the poison pools. People learned to do this and can now, for the most part, efficiently do it every time. To summarize: people struggled, someone came up with a solution, people attempted it and eventually got it down.

It’s no different than what will likely occur with the fractals. Someone will find a better way to get past an obstacle (e.g. dredge bomb room), it doesn’t matter whether it’s an exploit or not, and that strategy will become the new meta. Like everything, it will take practice to do it, but people will get the hang of it. Nothing in this game is really that difficult.

Yes an individuals skill level contributes to the success of a team assuming they’re working together as a team. A guide helps them out as they will know how to do something which is where groups in lower fractals struggle a lot. I know that the 1-9 tier groups struggle because people don’t know how to do the fractals. The fractals tend to be very easy at this level so the struggle is mitigated to a degree.

Learning to play your class correctly and work as a team is something that is not unique to just fractals. People have posted guides on builds and effective strategies that they use to mitigate damage and help their teams. Just look at some of the video guides where people actually walk you through some instances in dungeons/fractals and how they handle it.

You just contradicted yourself.
You say Fractals is just like any other dungeon from 1-9, game mechanics are the same and people just don’t know how to do it so there’s the struggle.
Sure, however when you get to higher Fractals that’s when it comes down to an individual “pulling your weight” aspect.
No meta dungeon calls for certain professions or certain combination of skills.
It is a “cof p1 lf more”, “AC p3 lf 2”.
Anyone can join (although rangers are still shunned) and you will complete the run if everyone knows where to stand and where to go. If they don’t, they follow the group and learn on first attempt.
Fractals is something you learn over time, it teaches you how to play your class, teaches you how to dodge and when to swap which skills for which.
Heck even wiki mentions that.

Again, no new meta will change the challenge pug groups face once getting in to higher fractals.
When they learn how to play their class and aren’t a burden on the teams in the 41+, they won’t be kicked.
They will not be warriors running hammer and PvT gear, they will zerkers with greatswords, axe and mace, longbow.
Until then they will struggle with people of a similar skill level in the lower levels until they naturally get better and learn from failure and being yelled at as they go up.

There already is a “meta” it’s called stacking and dodging, reflecting and blinding, dps and weapon swapping.
6 things you wont see much of in the lower levels.

Bagel.4598:

Ayrilana.1396:

The actual point that I was trying to make in that post was that people were struggling when AC got revamped and they couldn’t get past the spider queen. Someone came up with the idea you could stack in the corner and completely negate the only thing that was dangerous about her fight; the poison pools. People learned to do this and can now, for the most part, efficiently do it every time. To summarize: people struggled, someone came up with a solution, people attempted it and eventually got it down.

It’s no different than what will likely occur with the fractals. Someone will find a better way to get past an obstacle (e.g. dredge bomb room), it doesn’t matter whether it’s an exploit or not, and that strategy will become the new meta. Like everything, it will take practice to do it, but people will get the hang of it. Nothing in this game is really that difficult.

Yes an individuals skill level contributes to the success of a team assuming they’re working together as a team. A guide helps them out as they will know how to do something which is where groups in lower fractals struggle a lot. I know that the 1-9 tier groups struggle because people don’t know how to do the fractals. The fractals tend to be very easy at this level so the struggle is mitigated to a degree.

Learning to play your class correctly and work as a team is something that is not unique to just fractals. People have posted guides on builds and effective strategies that they use to mitigate damage and help their teams. Just look at some of the video guides where people actually walk you through some instances in dungeons/fractals and how they handle it.

You just contradicted yourself.
You say Fractals is just like any other dungeon from 1-9, game mechanics are the same and people just don’t know how to do it so there’s the struggle.
Sure, however when you get to higher Fractals that’s when it comes down to an individual “pulling your weight” aspect.
No meta dungeon calls for certain professions or certain combination of skills.
It is a “cof p1 lf more”, “AC p3 lf 2”.
Anyone can join (although rangers are still shunned) and you will complete the run if everyone knows where to stand and where to go. If they don’t, they follow the group and learn on first attempt.
Fractals is something you learn over time, it teaches you how to play your class, teaches you how to dodge and when to swap which skills for which.
Heck even wiki mentions that.

Again, no new meta will change the challenge pug groups face once getting in to higher fractals.
When they learn how to play their class and aren’t a burden on the teams in the 41+, they won’t be kicked.
They will not be warriors running hammer and PvT gear, they will zerkers with greatswords, axe and mace, longbow.
Until then they will struggle with people of a similar skill level in the lower levels until they naturally get better and learn from failure and being yelled at as they go up.

There already is a “meta” it’s called stacking and dodging, reflecting and blinding, dps and weapon swapping.
6 things you wont see much of in the lower levels.

Nope. I didn’t contradict myself. I also did not say fractals is like any other dungeon from 1-9 so you’re just adding that level range to strengthen whatever point you’re trying to make. What I stated was that fractals is a bit easier from 1-9 so players have a bit of a buffer to make errors and learn the fractals.

Any class can do any level of fractals. Some are just better than others but you’re far from correct that only certain classes can do it. And actually, when CoF was farmed, certain classes were required for the farmers. Just like how some people in 40+ requested certain classes. There’s really not much of a difference.

Different dungeons require different strategies. Different fractals require different strategies. There’s no difference. People can learn to play their class in dungeons, swap weapons, change skills/traits, learn to dodge, and whatever else. There’s no difference. What’s your claiming fractals does occurs in dungeons as well.

with experience team at 40 + it does not take long.

how ever I agree that the dredge fractal needs to be reduced

the “clown car” when u have 10-15 mins worth of dredge spawning is stupid.

everything else is a good length.

as ppls aid b4 if your team lacks experience it will take u a long time to do it.

krixis.9538:

with experience team at 40 + it does not take long.

how ever I agree that the dredge fractal needs to be reduced

the “clown car” when u have 10-15 mins worth of dredge spawning is stupid.

everything else is a good length.

as ppls aid b4 if your team lacks experience it will take u a long time to do it.

I made a suggestion in one of the other threads that they could just incorporate the waves into being past of the mini boss fight. I believe one option was to make each wave consist of vets (or mostly) but they only spawn in waves of three at each 25% of his hp. Either that or add some new mechanic that makes more sense than a dredge car ramming into a door.

Ayrilana.1396:

Bagel.4598:

Ayrilana.1396:

The actual point that I was trying to make in that post was that people were struggling when AC got revamped and they couldn’t get past the spider queen. Someone came up with the idea you could stack in the corner and completely negate the only thing that was dangerous about her fight; the poison pools. People learned to do this and can now, for the most part, efficiently do it every time. To summarize: people struggled, someone came up with a solution, people attempted it and eventually got it down.

It’s no different than what will likely occur with the fractals. Someone will find a better way to get past an obstacle (e.g. dredge bomb room), it doesn’t matter whether it’s an exploit or not, and that strategy will become the new meta. Like everything, it will take practice to do it, but people will get the hang of it. Nothing in this game is really that difficult.

Yes an individuals skill level contributes to the success of a team assuming they’re working together as a team. A guide helps them out as they will know how to do something which is where groups in lower fractals struggle a lot. I know that the 1-9 tier groups struggle because people don’t know how to do the fractals. The fractals tend to be very easy at this level so the struggle is mitigated to a degree.

Learning to play your class correctly and work as a team is something that is not unique to just fractals. People have posted guides on builds and effective strategies that they use to mitigate damage and help their teams. Just look at some of the video guides where people actually walk you through some instances in dungeons/fractals and how they handle it.

You just contradicted yourself.
You say Fractals is just like any other dungeon from 1-9, game mechanics are the same and people just don’t know how to do it so there’s the struggle.
Sure, however when you get to higher Fractals that’s when it comes down to an individual “pulling your weight” aspect.
No meta dungeon calls for certain professions or certain combination of skills.
It is a “cof p1 lf more”, “AC p3 lf 2”.
Anyone can join (although rangers are still shunned) and you will complete the run if everyone knows where to stand and where to go. If they don’t, they follow the group and learn on first attempt.
Fractals is something you learn over time, it teaches you how to play your class, teaches you how to dodge and when to swap which skills for which.
Heck even wiki mentions that.

Again, no new meta will change the challenge pug groups face once getting in to higher fractals.
When they learn how to play their class and aren’t a burden on the teams in the 41+, they won’t be kicked.
They will not be warriors running hammer and PvT gear, they will zerkers with greatswords, axe and mace, longbow.
Until then they will struggle with people of a similar skill level in the lower levels until they naturally get better and learn from failure and being yelled at as they go up.

There already is a “meta” it’s called stacking and dodging, reflecting and blinding, dps and weapon swapping.
6 things you wont see much of in the lower levels.

Nope. I didn’t contradict myself. I also did not say fractals is like any other dungeon from 1-9 so you’re just adding that level range to strengthen whatever point you’re trying to make. What I stated was that fractals is a bit easier from 1-9 so players have a bit of a buffer to make errors and learn the fractals.

Any class can do any level of fractals. Some are just better than others but you’re far from correct that only certain classes can do it. And actually, when CoF was farmed, certain classes were required for the farmers. Just like how some people in 40+ requested certain classes. There’s really not much of a difference.

Different dungeons require different strategies. Different fractals require different strategies. There’s no difference. People can learn to play their class in dungeons, swap weapons, change skills/traits, learn to dodge, and whatever else. There’s no difference. What’s your claiming fractals does occurs in dungeons as well.

Judging by your response you obviously
A) think dungeons are harder than they are
B) barely did high level fractals.

In dungeons mesmers were required for porting and thieves were for stealthing.
Game breaking as I mentioned in my first reply, to get past walls and certain rooms.
Hence why they were nerfed.
I repeat any class, any combination of class can join a group and face roll through dungeons.
The fact that this thread even exits is testament to my point.
People are having trouble with fractals because pugs lack the skill needed to smoothly defeat high level pve.
It’s not a simple lets join a 49 and lol our way through, people have to do work.

Bagel.4598:

Judging by your response you obviously
A) think dungeons are harder than they are
B) barely did high level fractals.

In dungeons mesmers were required for porting and thieves were for stealthing.
Game breaking as I mentioned in my first reply, to get past walls and certain rooms.
Hence why they were nerfed.
I repeat any class, any combination of class can join a group and face roll through dungeons.
The fact that this thread even exits is testament to my point.
People are having trouble with fractals because pugs lack the skill needed to smoothly defeat high level pve.
It’s not a simple lets join a 49 and lol our way through, people have to do work.

The thing is that you misinterpreted exactly what my posts were about. Nothing was about the difficulty level increasing as you get higher up. I wasn’t even arguing that. You were the one that took it upon your self to assume I was and then created arguments against that. I tried to explain in more detail my points but it just backfired because you’re arguing about something completely different than what I was.

Ayrilana.1396:

Bagel.4598:

Judging by your response you obviously
A) think dungeons are harder than they are
B) barely did high level fractals.

In dungeons mesmers were required for porting and thieves were for stealthing.
Game breaking as I mentioned in my first reply, to get past walls and certain rooms.
Hence why they were nerfed.
I repeat any class, any combination of class can join a group and face roll through dungeons.
The fact that this thread even exits is testament to my point.
People are having trouble with fractals because pugs lack the skill needed to smoothly defeat high level pve.
It’s not a simple lets join a 49 and lol our way through, people have to do work.

The thing is that you misinterpreted exactly what my posts were about. Nothing was about the difficulty level increasing as you get higher up. I wasn’t even arguing that. You were the one that took it upon your self to assume I was and then created arguments against that. I tried to explain in more detail my points but it just backfired because you’re arguing about something completely different than what I was.

No I was opposing your argument that fractals were only long because there wasn’t a new meta build to make them a breeze like dungeons.
And that’s exactly what I’ve done.
There is no “Meta” for Fractals and due to the Old Fractals hardly changing there won’t be a “meta”.
Speed and ease of completion is based on skill and game mechanics knowledge.
End of story.

Bagel.4598:

Ayrilana.1396:

Bagel.4598:

Judging by your response you obviously
A) think dungeons are harder than they are
B) barely did high level fractals.

In dungeons mesmers were required for porting and thieves were for stealthing.
Game breaking as I mentioned in my first reply, to get past walls and certain rooms.
Hence why they were nerfed.
I repeat any class, any combination of class can join a group and face roll through dungeons.
The fact that this thread even exits is testament to my point.
People are having trouble with fractals because pugs lack the skill needed to smoothly defeat high level pve.
It’s not a simple lets join a 49 and lol our way through, people have to do work.

The thing is that you misinterpreted exactly what my posts were about. Nothing was about the difficulty level increasing as you get higher up. I wasn’t even arguing that. You were the one that took it upon your self to assume I was and then created arguments against that. I tried to explain in more detail my points but it just backfired because you’re arguing about something completely different than what I was.

No I was opposing your argument that fractals were only long because there wasn’t a new meta build to make them a breeze like dungeons.
And that’s exactly what I’ve done.
There is no “Meta” for Fractals and due to the Old Fractals hardly changing there won’t be a “meta”.
Speed and ease of completion is based on skill and game mechanics knowledge.
End of story.

No. You missed what my point was. It was never about making them a ‘breeze" (don’t confuse it with easier) and you misconstrued that from my AC example. I let my personal opinions of the strategy change be reflected in my example so that’s probably where you got the wrong impression.

I was make the claim that there were strategies that people have yet to do that are more efficient and quicker at clearing past obstacles. When people learn do do these, their fractal completion times will drop. Those six things you mentioned were included in what I was talking about.

You stated that speed and ease of completion is based on skill and mechanics knowledge. The mechanics part WAS what I was referring to in the first post of mine that you quoted that spun the thread off on this tangent. Nothing was about the player skill level.

Ayrilana.1396:

No. People would just pick or choose the fractals. The fractals from 1-9 are incredibly easy and leave a lot of room for errors. The problem is that people are often skipping these. I constantly see people with lower personal reward levels in the 10-19 tier. They’re pretty obvious about it in chat.

So much this ^^

It has gotten better the last few days, but the week before that was terrible. I’m not saying you need tons of AR when doing 10-19 fractals, but I can’t tell you the number of people doing 16+ who not only had no AR, but couldn’t dodge the agony attacks and were downed half the time because of agony.

I don’t mind helping people, but coming in with no AR and playing that way is just rude really. I’m not the best player, but I don’t want to carry people simply because they refuse to progress through normally and want better rewards with less time input.

Funnily enough, it’s the Thaumanova fractal that gives me the most trouble with PUGs. It’s fairly long and most people haven’t done it yet, so I have to explain exactly what (NOT) to do at Subject 6, lead everybody through the cannon room since they don’t know where the consoles are, and sometimes end up solo’ing the end boss because it seems lots of players aren’t used to a “run and gun” strategy when facing bosses, and just stand in one spot even when the floor is disintegrating beneath them.

I cringe whenever I see the Thaumanova fractal now, since it can take us up to an hour to complete with PUGs.