Guild Wars 2

Meglobob.8620:

One point I have never understood about heavy vs medium/light armour debate.

Heavy classes get a small armour advantage, its a clear advantage that warriors/guardians get.

So what small advantage do the other 6 classes get to even this out?

No one has ever said AFAIK and I have never been able to figure any advantage with other classes skills/traits/stats that equal that small armour advantage out.

I’m curious to know the answer to this is too

The answer is that you get a bunch more hp than the guardian and a bunch more utility that the warrior.

There’s a reason warriors don’t have loads of blinds, aegis, traited vigor, extra heals, teleports etc.

Besides, the armor difference is actually tiny.

It all seems pretty balanced to me, I play warrior, guardian, mesmer and thief

Lunar Sunset.8742:

Lian Olsam.9541:

My main is an ele, i have also a war and a guard, in high lvl content i can play full zerk war i cant play full zerk ele, play full zerk war it s easyer then play dps/support ele… trash mobs hit too hard, the base hp of ele is ridicoulus, we have dodge and updraft from dagger, mesm for example, have alot of evade skill and 50% more base hp… anet need to rewrite mobs dmg otherwise war and guard will ever be better choise… i play 90% ele 5 war and 5 guard.. and i really dont underdtand why my full zerk war have more survivability than my ele…

Eles are the easiest profession to survive with in zerker, you can run a bunker trait set up and do moderate damage. I’m sorry but I laugh at anyone who says ele is too squishy. It’s not, dodge and switch attunements.

PS, reading the skill descriptions is helpful too.

I meant zerk armor+ zerk trats… i play zerk armor and bunker setup cause is the only viable way (now and after patch) for play dps ele, but your dmg is ridicolous in front of war… for have same dmg you have to use also dps build, but u cant stay alive as a full dps guard and war… that s the biggest problem

I had a very nice example of how much player skill influences survivability doing a PUG run in Fractals yesterday. While one of our guardian and the other necro kept going down (I didn’t die quite as much on my own necro, even though I wouldn’t consider myself a particularly good player), while our only ele practically danced around their corpses. Particularly in the Grawl-Shaman Fractal where you have to be careful not to get set on fire constantly…

I really didn’t have much of a problem on my necro, not in Fractals and not in the Tower. But then, I do have lots of options to get rid of conditions, plus a large HP pool, plus a second health bar.

I don’t do as much on my mesmer, who feels a tiny bit more squishy, but I never really had a problem surviving on her, either.

fadeaway.2807:

The answer is that you get a bunch more hp than the guardian and a bunch more utility that the warrior.

There’s a reason warriors don’t have loads of blinds, aegis, traited vigor, extra heals, teleports etc.

Besides, the armor difference is actually tiny.

It all seems pretty balanced to me, I play warrior, guardian, mesmer and thief

It all seems pretty *UN*balanced to me. Look at who the most desired classes are for dungeons: Guardian, Warrior and Mesmer. Why is this? Guardian and Warrior both are high armor classes, yet they seem to have a much higher damage output than my necromancer, who is of course a light armor class. Shouldn’t it balance out? Shouldn’t the lowest armored classes have a higher damage output to make up for that disadvantage?

The answer to this, is Cleave and DPS. The PVE game favors these things, and is entirely against conditions and control skills. So any classes that rely on these mechanics, and do not have access to good DPS + Cleave, are left out in the cold. It is the direct result of high end PVE not handling the various combat mechanics equally. Bosses/champions are immune to things that some classes rely on, while having no resistance or immunities to the things these other three classes rely on.

That is what I call an unbalanced combat system.

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

Regardless, adding enemies with endlessly increasing damage output and health isn’t really a very interesting way to add difficulty.

This seems to go against Anet’s mentality.

Paul.4081:

Meglobob.8620:

One point I have never understood about heavy vs medium/light armour debate.

Heavy classes get a small armour advantage, its a clear advantage that warriors/guardians get.

So what small advantage do the other 6 classes get to even this out?

No one has ever said AFAIK and I have never been able to figure any advantage with other classes skills/traits/stats that equal that small armour advantage out.

I’m curious to know the answer to this is too

There some of these advantage to the other 6 classes.
Elementalist : They have the best utility skill to stay alive, a lot of condition removal, 100% vigor, access to a lot of defensive boons like protection, regen, etc.
Thief : They are some pretty nice block that they can spam while attacking if they are traited, everytime they are in danger they can stealth, lose agro and continue to attack.
Necromancer : They have no problem with condition, they have access to a lot of blind and weakness, they have a lot of hp and a whole second bar of hp (if traited dearthshroud give them awesome survivability)
Engineer : Like Elementalist, engineer have access to a lot of skill with their kits and toolbelt. If used correctly you can get a lot out of all the combe field/finisher you have. Huge amount of heal form water field/blast, or a huge amount of stealth with smoke field/blast.
Rangers : I don’t really play my ranger and i’m not a fan so i’ll give this one to someone else but I have 100% Vigor during fight.

@thaddeus…
You just listed the ele build that is considered totally wrong by all elitist….

Mostly because it deals 0 damage and the support is subpar (considering zerker equipment).

Other professions does the same better with half effort….
Why warrior are considered OP?

What is oneshot for an ele is 2 shot or 3 shot for a warrior.
Warrior is less situational
Warrior has FAR better support (ele used to have his ress banner….it was nerfed to the ground while warrior wasn t touched not to mention other banners).
Warrior has low CD.

Only thing an ele will bring is a fiery GS…..

The comparison with a guardian is even worse…

People take guardians because of reflects, stability and good condition removal, not because they wear heavy armor.

Pve groups are created by throwing the top five dpsers you can find together and figuring out who loses the least dps for the most group support.

The answers are warrior with banner, fgj. Guardian with reflects and Condi removal, mes with reflects.

The reason people like these classes has nothing to do with the few percent higher damage reduction.

fadeaway.2807:

People take guardians because of reflects, stability and good condition removal, not because they wear heavy armor.

Pve groups are created by throwing the top five dpsers you can find together and figuring out who loses the least dps for the most group support.

The answers are warrior with banner, fgj. Guardian with reflects and Condi removal, mes with reflects.

The reason people like these classes has nothing to do with the few percent higher damage reduction.

This is perfect, Also, thieves are switched out a lot in some parts of some fractals. Blinding, stealth, good dps, Weakness blast finisher spams and a spamable interrupt with Signet of malice and dagger storm = shaman lava ele win.

fadeaway.2807:

People take guardians because of reflects, stability and good condition removal, not because they wear heavy armor.

I would love to hear an official explanation for this. Guardians have heavy armor, reflects, stability AND good condition removal. But the less armored classes have worse access to stability and often no access to reflection either, resulting in worse DPS on top of their worse armor.

Eh, in what universe is this considered balanced?

From my experience taking multiple classes to the top of the tower mostly solo, I have come to the conclusion that Mesmers desperately need something like Troll Unguent or Healing Signet.

If the new fractal bosses are, as described, rehashes of the molten facility and MAI Trinn fights, then those are extremely pro-warrior pro guardian.

Hell pugs on GW2lfg were forming all warrior/ guardian parties as soon as the mechanics of both fights were figured out.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

fadeaway.2807:

People take guardians because of reflects, stability and good condition removal, not because they wear heavy armor.

I would love to hear an official explanation for this. Guardians have heavy armor, reflects, stability AND good condition removal. But the less armored classes have worse access to stability and often no access to reflection either, resulting in worse DPS on top of their worse armor.

Eh, in what universe is this considered balanced?

But lets say thief for an expamle, thieves have so many evade skills, smoke/blind fields, great dps and party wide stealth. That class isnt made to block attacks or protect the party like a guardian can. Oh BTW, thieves can remove conditions on parties, all classes can.

Each class has there special things, but right now fractals higher level specially hit so hard you need LOTS of blocks, with the scaling of hard hitting mobs lessing we might be wanting more other classes now, and b.c of the instability coming, other classes might be needed more than ever.

So what do you people suggest? Give heavy armor to Ranger? Give reflects to Necro? Remove zerker armor? Come on.

Nick.6972:

So what do you people suggest? Give heavy armor to Ranger? Give reflects to Necro? Remove zerker armor? Come on.

Its just easier to play a war or guardian in fractals, b.c players can easily use cookie cutter builds and dont have to worry about getting a good dodge off.

I’ve done high lvl fractals with engineers, rangers, necros, everything, how aabout you people just get better? The elitism and party kicking is exaggerated. I’ve always played with pugs and I’ve never encountered anyone saying "gtfo ranger:
Lvl 50 FoTM.

I have seen this coming since the very second they announced they removed the Mana system from GW1. I have also been saying it since BWE1.

Just what holds back a heavily armored class that in the GW tradition is allowed to do DPS (warrior and other melees were premier in GW1), without a mechanic of resource management?
Very few designers seem to have asked themselves this at Bellevue.

You made the traditionally easiest balancable archetype, heavies, into the by far most overpowered. They have literally not a single downside to them. (If they do, I’d like it pointed out and I will defeat it.)
In other MMO, including GW1, your downside was your small energy pool and your range. The first is of course a non-factor here and the second is laughable, since melee does, no hyperbole, at least an order of magnitude more DPS than (non-condition heavy single target) ranged in GW2.

The disparity uniquely in sPvP right now is less pronounced than in PVE/WvW, but only because of the game mode design that encourages a condi/hit-and-run meta.
Once you add team arenas or other non-conquest formats, war/guards will once again have another area where they reign supreme and everyone who wants to take this game seriously will cry at the blatantly dysfunctional class design paradigm.

Nick.6972:

So what do you people suggest? Give heavy armor to Ranger? Give reflects to Necro? Remove zerker armor? Come on.

Balance between the classes requires a trade off. You can’t have a class with the best defense, also be the class with the best offense, and vice versa.

Nick.6972:

So what do you people suggest? Give heavy armor to Ranger? Give reflects to Necro? Remove zerker armor? Come on.

It would take a massive amount of rebalancing, but an idea that came to mind would be to give each of the armor type professions their own unique advantage. A possible idea would be an additional evade for adventures, and for scholars a secondary heal option and higher baseline boon duration.

These would be expansion-level changes though, and who knows if that’s part of Anet’s plan.

Faux.1937:

Nick.6972:

So what do you people suggest? Give heavy armor to Ranger? Give reflects to Necro? Remove zerker armor? Come on.

Its just easier to play a war or guardian in fractals, b.c players can easily use cookie cutter builds and dont have to worry about getting a good dodge off.

Roughly 95% of the playerbase does that for all classes so that argument isn’t valid/applicable.

“So what do you people suggest? Give heavy armor to Ranger? Give reflects to Necro? Remove zerker armor? Come on.”

Guardians and Warriors have utilities that are fit for purpose for a melee class. Move onto other classes and you get a variety of other stuff with fancy ideas but the core support for melee is not there. (Thieves are ok with blind until defiant leaves them cold). Ranger is the typical example of a class that can go into melee and can apply damage but the utility/trait support just isn’t as good as a warrior since the class design spreads ranger utilities/traits over a variety of roles, none of which are fully delivered.

Give unique mechanic/advantage to each profession.
I’m sorry, this game is just too easy, all you need is massive DPS, you don’t need gimmicky class mechanics.

@Stooperdale Why not just give other classes different utilities? Add more skills? You seem to be missing the whole “roles” thing. As a guardian, I realize I’m supposed to aggro bosses/mobs in dungeons while the other players damage without aggroing. Take Blinding Powder for example. Partner yourself with a Water Ele making water fields and you can AoE heal everyone as well as blinding the enemy and stealthing your allies. Guardians/Warriors are good with PUG because they are easily measurable and don’t require much know how or planning to get right. With a little planing, thieves can save you in a fotm.

krixis.9538:

i play lvl 48 fractals in a full zerk grenade engie and the only condi removal i use is what i have in my medkit skill.

i have no issue in fractals as i normally take atleast 1 support class for a well rounded balanced group. because lets face it u cant just stack in a corner and nuke the boss in 15 seconds in 48 + so might aswell build for a heavy duty tough as nails group.

the living story is not an issue. if it is zerg content u stay with the zerg and just go with the flow.

the aether blades and molten alliance fractals will be nice.

also perhaps the thief is not the right class for you OP, just because you play a class does not meen its right for you.

who are you to tell me what to play? thief is perfect class for me as i enjoy the playstyle

i can manage FINE in fractals, in fact i am usually the one carrying it to certain extend BUT I DON’T see myself being able to deal with scaled up aether mobs due to their kittened mechanics

i didn’t complain about thief mechanics, i didn’t complain about war/guardian mechanics…

MY MAJOR COMPLAIN IS THAT CONTENT IS CUT FOR HEAVY CLASSES WITH THEIR UTILITY KIT… THE MAIN ISSUE IS CONDITION/CC SPAM

that is what topic was about, but even anet dev refuses to understand it apprently (inb4 bann…)

i give up, there is no point to even try to post anything as people just read what they want to read

if any mod reads this, please lock this thread, it is pointless

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

It’s true that certain professions have an easier time simply dealing with soaking up damage with larger HP pools, but it’s arguable that this is clearly better than the damage avoidance or support mechanics of others. Regardless, adding enemies with endlessly increasing damage output and health isn’t really a very interesting way to add difficulty. That’s why we reduced the HP/Damage scaling in Fractals somewhat and started replacing it with the Mistlock Instabilities that you’ll find starting at level 31.

OMG.

I’m so excited :D

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

It’s true that certain professions have an easier time simply dealing with soaking up damage with larger HP pools, but it’s arguable that this is clearly better than the damage avoidance or support mechanics of others. Regardless, adding enemies with endlessly increasing damage output and health isn’t really a very interesting way to add difficulty. That’s why we reduced the HP/Damage scaling in Fractals somewhat and started replacing it with the Mistlock Instabilities that you’ll find starting at level 31.

i don’t find this answer satisfying.
i’m often encountered with people that look for “heavy only” in fractals or different dungeons. Lots of people still don’t understand the concept of Guild Wars 2 and treat it like a classic mmo, because there’s only “one true build” for every class they google for and that’s it.

a zerk warrior with let’s say 2,2k def and 18-19k hp will get invited, but not my cond necro with 2,5k def and about 21k hp. which makes my light armor soaking more dmg than a heavy armor.
that just annoys the hell out of me and i believe there’s nothing i (or you ) can do.

Cynz.9437:

krixis.9538:

i play lvl 48 fractals in a full zerk grenade engie and the only condi removal i use is what i have in my medkit skill.

i have no issue in fractals as i normally take atleast 1 support class for a well rounded balanced group. because lets face it u cant just stack in a corner and nuke the boss in 15 seconds in 48 + so might aswell build for a heavy duty tough as nails group.

the living story is not an issue. if it is zerg content u stay with the zerg and just go with the flow.

the aether blades and molten alliance fractals will be nice.

also perhaps the thief is not the right class for you OP, just because you play a class does not meen its right for you.

who are you to tell me what to play? thief is perfect class for me as i enjoy the playstyle

i can manage FINE in fractals, in fact i am usually the one carrying it to certain extend BUT I DON’T see myself being able to deal with scaled up aether mobs due to their kittened mechanics

i didn’t complain about thief mechanics, i didn’t complain about war/guardian mechanics…

MY MAJOR COMPLAIN IS THAT CONTENT IS CUT FOR HEAVY CLASSES WITH THEIR UTILITY KIT… THE MAIN ISSUE IS CONDITION/CC SPAM

that is what topic was about, but even anet dev refuses to understand it apprently (inb4 bann…)

i give up, there is no point to even try to post anything as people just read what they want to read

if any mod reads this, please lock this thread, it is pointless

yes this is a real factor anet is missing. They are moving the PVE game more toward enemy CC and conditions, at the same time a class like thief has no stability, horrible CC removal, and shrinking stun breaks.
unless some new theif skills coming on dec 10, they will have less dodges, and cast time on escapes, doesnt look good when CC and conditions are poured out like water by multiple targets.

Try playing an Engineer in condition heavy content without conditionclearing team players and enjoy the dying. Engineer is by far the profession with the least amount of condition removal.

On a more serious note; this Zerk Only Build PvE with only Warriors and Guardians is getting very tiresome. Please ANet, do something about it. I play every profession, but right now I’ve fallen hard for the Engineer. But the Engineer (according to everyone else) is completely useless in PvE, same as the Ranger is considered. I don’t want to play my Mesmer/Guardian. Apparantly I am forced to, anyway. So I guess it’s time to reroll again.

Lipstick.3469:

Try playing an Engineer in condition heavy content without conditionclearing team players and enjoy the dying. Engineer is by far the profession with the least amount of condition removal.

On a more serious note; this Zerk Only Build PvE with only Warriors and Guardians is getting very tiresome. Please ANet, do something about it. I play every profession, but right now I’ve fallen hard for the Engineer. But the Engineer (according to everyone else) is completely useless in PvE, same as the Ranger is considered. I don’t want to play my Mesmer/Guardian. Apparantly I am forced to, anyway. So I guess it’s time to reroll again.

as said before, this thread isn’t about class mechanics

it is about content made for certain classes basically :/

Lipstick.3469:

Try playing an Engineer in condition heavy content without conditionclearing team players and enjoy the dying. Engineer is by far the profession with the least amount of condition removal.

On a more serious note; this Zerk Only Build PvE with only Warriors and Guardians is getting very tiresome. Please ANet, do something about it. I play every profession, but right now I’ve fallen hard for the Engineer. But the Engineer (according to everyone else) is completely useless in PvE, same as the Ranger is considered. I don’t want to play my Mesmer/Guardian. Apparantly I am forced to, anyway. So I guess it’s time to reroll again.

uhhh engineer has a lot of condi removal
Fumigate.png
Fumigate (from Elixir Gun) — Spray a cone of elixir fumes, inflicting poison and vulnerability to foes and curing conditions on allies with every strike.
Engineer tango icon 20px.png
Super Elixir.png
Super Elixir (Elixir Gun) — One condition from allies in area, unlisted effect.
Engineer tango icon 20px.png
Toss Elixir R.png
Toss Elixir R (Elixir R) — Toss Elixir R, curing conditions and reviving allies.
Engineer tango icon 20px.png
Blessing of Kormir.png
Blessing of Kormir (Prayer to Kormir) — Beseech Kormir to remove one condition from your allies at the target location.
Engineer tango icon 20px.png
Engineer tango icon 20px.png
Cleansing Burst.png
Cleansing Burst (Healing Turret) — Overcharge your healing turret, supplying a burst of healing that cures two conditions.
Engineer tango icon 20px.png
Drop Antidote.png
Drop Antidote (Med Kit) — Drop a vial of antidote that cures conditions.
Engineer tango icon 20px.png Cleaning Formula 409 – one condition from allies affected by elixirs
Engineer tango icon 20px.png Automated Response (upon health reaching 25%)

2 light fields
Engineer tango icon 20px.png
Super Elixir.png
Super Elixir (from Elixir Gun)
Engineer tango icon 20px.png
Toss Elixir R.png
Toss Elixir R (tool belt skill from Elixir R)

now its not the best in the game maybe but its way more than thief which has
1 weapon skill one
2 utilities 1 on a 60 second cool down and the other on a 30 second cool down.
1 trait

If you think thief is bad in the tower then you really need to look at ALL the options available to a thief. The BEST PVE COMBO for a thief is sword/pistol where you blind tank 5 elite mobs solo and solo them, something a warrior/guardian can only dream. You can also use smoke screen which has a stupid low cooldown for even more blind and afk farm mobs more efficiently than a warrior ever can.

Forestgreen.7981:

If you think thief is bad in the tower then you really need to look at ALL the options available to a thief. The BEST PVE COMBO for a thief is sword/pistol where you blind tank 5 elite mobs solo and solo them, something a warrior/guardian can only dream. You can also use smoke screen which has a stupid low cooldown for even more blind and afk farm mobs more efficiently than a warrior ever can.

^^another person who doesn’t read

this thread is about CONTENT not class

Thieves can stealth and got highest moblity, mesmers can create clones, engineers got heavy aoe CC, ele got got fantastic self heal, condi clear and good moblity, necros got aoe fear and deathshroud, rangers got high tanky specs

Big Tower.5423:

Thieves can stealth and got highest moblity, mesmers can create clones, engineers got heavy aoe CC, ele got got fantastic self heal, condi clear and good moblity, necros got aoe fear and deathshroud, rangers got high tanky specs

dont know if theives actually have highest mobility, they can avoid fights with stealth though, but the PVE meta is moving to heavy conditions and CC which theif doesnt have good answers for

The issue here is not the difference between armor classes. What matters is the viability discrepancy between the “useful” classes and those not so useful – those that can, and those that cannot. Making this argument about armor class gives any developer an easy answer, and it’s unfortunate that that was how this thread opened.

The content is tailored for optimal efficiency through maxing raw damage. This shouldn’t exist in A.) a game with 8 professions that have vastly unique personal abilities or B.) a game that was advertised under the banner of “play how you want”.

Whether it was intentional or not, they allocated the most useful abilities among half (roughly) of the professions. I will give them credit for recent content, as it is friendlier towards different types of group compositions, but ultimately DPS will reign. That isn’t a bad thing, it’s just that I think the content should give all play styles as meaningful a role as straight DPS. A lot of it has to do with boss mechanics (or lack of). There is a thread going on in the Necromancer forum about the restrictions content places on classes (and I believe the Necromancer community feels the burn of this more than any other).

phys.7689:

uhhh engineer has a lot of condi removal

They’re often mutually exclusive,though; also, since we must use utility slots for our weapons as well, our choice about what to get is extremely limited. Anyway…

Fumigate (from Elixir Gun) — Spray a cone of elixir fumes, inflicting poison and vulnerability to foes and curing conditions on allies with every strike.

Cures allies, but not the engineer.

Super Elixir (Elixir Gun) — One condition from allies in area, unlisted effect.

Single condition every 20s (16s if traited) – still, we’re using up a slot, so take note about this.

Toss Elixir R (Elixir R) — Toss Elixir R, curing conditions and reviving allies.

All conditions, but 120s base cooldown (and can be lowered only with the last trait line); you’re using up another slot, though.

Blessing of Kormir (Prayer to Kormir) — Beseech Kormir to remove one condition from your allies at the target location.
Cleansing Burst (Healing Turret) — Overcharge your healing turret, supplying a burst of healing that cures two conditions.
Drop Antidote (Med Kit) — Drop a vial of antidote that cures conditions.

Mutually exclusive – they are all in different healing skills.

Cleaning Formula 409 – one condition from allies affected by elixirs

But it requires you to use elixirs – thus, either those or weapons.

Automated Response (upon health reaching 25%)

Doesn’t heal conditions – it prevents you from taking further ones, though.

You did forget to mention Elixir C (converts all conditions to boons with utility skill, single area conversion with tossed version).
That by itself is quite a nice condition cleanse.

phys.7689:

2 light fields
Super Elixir (from Elixir Gun)
Toss Elixir R (tool belt skill from Elixir R)

No one would ever use toss elixir R to heal conditions; apart from that, we still require finishers to cleanse conditions. Obviously we lack 100% projectile ones if we get the other cleanses, since they are in other utilities.

Also, we have the minor transmute trait, that is getting changed to convert a single incoming condition every 15s (quite a bad trait, actually, since it does nothing to already applied ones).

phys.7689:

now its not the best in the game maybe but its way more than thief which has
1 weapon skill one
2 utilities 1 on a 60 second cool down and the other on a 30 second cool down.
1 trait

Sure, but either we get weapons, or we get cleanses; and what use we are if we can’t do anything else than cleanse us? The engineers’ main weapons can’t do much alone- they’re designed to be used with kits.

Nick.6972:

So what do you people suggest? Give heavy armor to Ranger? Give reflects to Necro? Remove zerker armor? Come on.

Actually, they are visibly working to cripple ’Zerkers-uber-alles. The overall strategy of reducing Vigor uptime and reducing the number of dodges available is a direct attack on builds that rely on dodges rather than toughness/vitality/healing power to stay alive. The constant unavoidable damage ticks from the toxic spore condition is vastly more dangerous to glass canons than to bunkers. Basically the whole game is shifting towards a condition damage meta because of the disparities in ways classes absorb damage.

This is for the OP.

I main a thief aswell. Recently made 2 more thieves because I like the class alot and leveling a thief is just awesome.
I didn’t have a lot of trouble duo-ing the entire Tower of Nightmares. I don’t think that content was meant to be able to do it solo and as such, I do not treat it as solo content. I tried running through it solo, and that worked aswell, but with a lot of effort.
The only condition removal I use is from our stealth heal, which is enough for me in 99% of the scenarios.

Yes, the heavy armored classes have a LOT of room for mistakes, that’s why they are heavy classes. The thing is, I don’t see the payoff for users not being heavy. My thief is basicly a warrior without all the weaponry and has the option to go stealth heavy.

I don’t know if you have tried a pistol offhand a lot, but for PvE that offhand is king :P If you are full berserker gear, you may want to consider valkyrie or something else with vitality in it. I almost never go full berserker unless I know my party can hold its own or if I know I can get through everything. For Fractals I use armor with healing power and a venomshare build and it keeps people alive really well. It depends on what you want.

Do you want to put some effort in your gameplay and perhaps get shunned and, against all odds, play better than a high percentage of the community which thinks everything besides warrior/guardian sucks?
Or do you want to go with the easiest route?

I choose the former

simax.1962:

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

It’s true that certain professions have an easier time simply dealing with soaking up damage with larger HP pools, but it’s arguable that this is clearly better than the damage avoidance or support mechanics of others. Regardless, adding enemies with endlessly increasing damage output and health isn’t really a very interesting way to add difficulty. That’s why we reduced the HP/Damage scaling in Fractals somewhat and started replacing it with the Mistlock Instabilities that you’ll find starting at level 31.

i don’t find this answer satisfying.
i’m often encountered with people that look for “heavy only” in fractals or different dungeons. Lots of people still don’t understand the concept of Guild Wars 2 and treat it like a classic mmo, because there’s only “one true build” for every class they google for and that’s it.

a zerk warrior with let’s say 2,2k def and 18-19k hp will get invited, but not my cond necro with 2,5k def and about 21k hp. which makes my light armor soaking more dmg than a heavy armor.
that just annoys the hell out of me and i believe there’s nothing i (or you ) can do.

See but that’s exactly the problem. A zerker warrior has 2.2k def and 18-19k HP by default, they don’t have to invest a single stat point into it. They can sink all their stats into dps and end up with 5k dps.

You on the other hand in order to get 2.5k def and 21k hp need to put in massive amounts of points into toughness and vitality to get numbers that high. Leaving you with a pathetic amount of dps, probably less than half of the warriors.

So why should I take you? You have basically the same defense as a warrior, but you do half the dps because all your stats are in defense.

i wish they would just let rangers heal dead players with search and rescue once more, then nobody would kick rangers again… nerfing Search and Rescue was the worst mistake ever made by the devs so far this year

If you both get stunned, then you’re doing it wrong, or maybe I’m just doing it right. When I did that stuff, I (the guardian) took pretty much all of the stuns. Thieves have 5 stun breaks, (guards have 4) so if your guard doesn’t know how to play and let’s you get stunned, he/she should use “Stand your ground” and break your stun. Team work!

this is why i hasnt bothered completing any of the living story update

Prysin.8542:

i wish they would just let rangers heal dead players with search and rescue once more, then nobody would kick rangers again… nerfing Search and Rescue was the worst mistake ever made by the devs so far this year

Rangers get kicked for more reasons than just one skill. Their list of problems is a long one.

Morsus.5106:

If you both get stunned, then you’re doing it wrong, or maybe I’m just doing it right. When I did that stuff, I (the guardian) took pretty much all of the stuns. Thieves have 5 stun breaks, (guards have 4) so if your guard doesn’t know how to play and let’s you get stunned, he/she should use “Stand your ground” and break your stun. Team work!

Stand Your Ground is only a stun breaker for the Guard and Stability does not break control effects that are already in place

ZudetGambeous.9573:

See but that’s exactly the problem. A zerker warrior has 2.2k def and 18-19k HP by default, they don’t have to invest a single stat point into it. They can sink all their stats into dps and end up with 5k dps.

You on the other hand in order to get 2.5k def and 21k hp need to put in massive amounts of points into toughness and vitality to get numbers that high. Leaving you with a pathetic amount of dps, probably less than half of the warriors.

So why should I take you? You have basically the same defense as a warrior, but you do half the dps because all your stats are in defense.

well, like i said, its a condition necro, which means the major stat is cond dmg, minors are precision and toughness (i dont have vitality at all, necros have a large hp pool)
i have 1,5k cond dmg, which is quite much, lots of cond duration. i can do 25 bleeding stacks alone on bosses (cause it takes time to stack that up)
ive seen numbers where i do 4000 bleeding dmg per tick (only bleeding!) on every mob around with epidemic, theres also burning, poison.. and every other condition which is copied with epidemic. theres some physical dmg too per atk and also fleshgolem does lots of phys dmg. put that all together and you got a LOT of dmg, especially aoe. but people dont think that far.

its so easy to just say, " yea we need lots of phys dmg and lots of heavy armor. thats it"
lol gw2 was not designed that way. also thought about what keeps the zerk warrior alive? (well its a pain in the * to keep them alive, after 500+ frac runs i can say: they kiss the ground VERY often, because they think to less with their boomboombang builds)
maybe a necro spamming aoe blindess? theres so many reasons to take other classes too, the list is very long bro. players have to be skilled and not your average “google-best-build” player.

simax.1962:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

See but that’s exactly the problem. A zerker warrior has 2.2k def and 18-19k HP by default, they don’t have to invest a single stat point into it. They can sink all their stats into dps and end up with 5k dps.

You on the other hand in order to get 2.5k def and 21k hp need to put in massive amounts of points into toughness and vitality to get numbers that high. Leaving you with a pathetic amount of dps, probably less than half of the warriors.

So why should I take you? You have basically the same defense as a warrior, but you do half the dps because all your stats are in defense.

well, like i said, its a condition necro, which means the major stat is cond dmg, minors are precision and toughness (i dont have vitality at all, necros have a large hp pool)
i have 1,5k cond dmg, which is quite much, lots of cond duration. i can do 25 bleeding stacks alone on bosses (cause it takes time to stack that up)
ive seen numbers where i do 4000 bleeding dmg per tick (only bleeding!) on every mob around with epidemic, theres also burning, poison.. and every other condition which is copied with epidemic. theres some physical dmg too per atk and also fleshgolem does lots of phys dmg. put that all together and you got a LOT of dmg, especially aoe. but people dont think that far.

its so easy to just say, " yea we need lots of phys dmg and lots of heavy armor. thats it"
lol gw2 was not designed that way. also thought about what keeps the zerk warrior alive? (well its a pain in the * to keep them alive, after 500+ frac runs i can say: they kiss the ground VERY often, because they think to less with their boomboombang builds)
maybe a necro spamming aoe blindess? theres so many reasons to take other classes too, the list is very long bro. players have to be skilled and not your average “google-best-build” player.

you are right but the big problem is full zerk party it works better everywhere!!!
and this sux alot

i’ve made a post for try to change this situation and discuss about this, trying to find some solution and if devs wanna read and reply for discuss about it should be nice, cause this is the biggest problem of gw2, so join it and give some idea and solution… i think all that dps&dodge its a gamekiller for pve and classes diversity…

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/gw-2-big-change-pve/first#post3251055

necro owns the tower and a lot of the LS lately a lot better than my warrior or guard does. Also, especially with my Lyssa runes, my Thief handles condis waaaaaaay better than my guard or warrior. Dont even need Lyssa, removal or condis when invis. I dont even see what youre complaining about. Rangers deal with condis fine too

phys.7689:

Big Tower.5423:

Thieves can stealth and got highest moblity, mesmers can create clones, engineers got heavy aoe CC, ele got got fantastic self heal, condi clear and good moblity, necros got aoe fear and deathshroud, rangers got high tanky specs

dont know if theives actually have highest mobility, they can avoid fights with stealth though, but the PVE meta is moving to heavy conditions and CC which theif doesnt have good answers for

Thief do have highest moblity thats a known fact dude. and thieves dont need to fight more than like 10 % of targets XD

Nike.2631:

Actually, they are visibly working to cripple ’Zerkers-uber-alles. The overall strategy of reducing Vigor uptime and reducing the number of dodges available is a direct attack on builds that rely on dodges rather than toughness/vitality/healing power to stay alive. The constant unavoidable damage ticks from the toxic spore condition is vastly more dangerous to glass canons than to bunkers. Basically the whole game is shifting towards a condition damage meta because of the disparities in ways classes absorb damage.

Yes, but condition damage doesn’t hurt lighter armored classes any less than heavies, because they typically have lower health pools, except necromancers. Warriors and guardians have good condition clearing abilities as well.

Flash.6912:

what are these Mistlock Instabilities im keep hearing? Are they sort of gambits just like in Queensdale arena?

Get GW1 and visit the Dragon’s Lair, or the Realm of Anguish in Hard Mode.

You’ll see environment effects such as Edge of Reason or Domain of Health Draining

My guess they’ll be similar to those effects. An effect that you have to deal with during the entire fractal, probably with ‘safe’ spots at the start so players can switch skills and weapons.