Guild Wars 2

Durzlla.6295:

khani.4786:

Xae Isareth.1364:

I’ll give you conjured weapons. But, have you ever seen anyone fight with a banner, or any environmental weapons?

Hey now…

I’ve got Golems in a box, Jars of Bees, Jars of Harpy Pheremones, Moletov Coctails, Charrzookas, and quite love grabbing a warrior’s banner and running off with it to smack something with it. Those things are SUPER fun to play with….and really how else am I going to attack things when I’m roaming around as a toxic krait. You’ve not experienced anything til you’ve taken down a foe with a golem in a box while transformed into something else entirely. And really…..a princess doll with a charrzooka….priceless.

shifty eyes

My god, you can use bundles while transformed? CHANGE OF PLAN BOYS!! Getting sonic berserker tonic sooner than expected, you don’t know fear until a sonic berserker charges you with a fiery greatsword xD

I haven’t tried picking up the ele conjured weapons yet, but the consumable items you can totally used while transformed!! And while you can drop the jars of bees for other people to pick up, you can’t pick them up while transformed, but you can use them from your inventory!

The more you know Shooting Star

The problem here isn’t that runes exclude certain classes (though for them to only exclude engineer is pretty much a slap in the face), the problem is that it would be so simple to make it useful to ALL classes.

instead of “with sigils” just change it to “with sigils or elixirs”

This has no effect at all on the other 7 professions, but it allows it to also work for the last profession.

The problem is one of fast sloppy game design. If the designers had sat down and simply asked, “how can this benefit X profession” this problem would have been avoided completely. But instead it seems they just randomly chose a word to stick in there to make it useful to some random subset.

Xae Isareth.1364:

Dharknite.7906:

Xae Isareth.1364:

JeffHardisty.1926:

Entioch.6594:

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

Shall we give Kits to all other professions so they can properly utilize Rune of the Engineer?

BUURRRRNNN

I dont really care about this new rune but I wil point this out

(6): +5% damage while holding a bundle.

Warriors banners and Elementalists conjure elemental weapons count as bundles, as well as and weapons you can pick up (e.g. planks). Even thieves have a trait that increases bundle damage “Improvisation – Stealing recharges all skills of one type (venoms, signets, traps, tricks, or deceptions). Deal bonus damage when wielding a bundle” http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Environmental_weapon (bundles in other words)

I beleive the point that people are trying to make is that this is the frist rune that can be fully utilized by all classes, but one. Other runes like the Rune of the Soldier can be used by selection of classes, and leave the others out, but no other rune I can think of leaves only one class out like this new one does.

I’ll give you conjured weapons. But, have you ever seen anyone fight with a banner, or any environmental weapons?

And frankly speaking, the rune doesn’t just leave engis out, for example, on a Mesmer, if you’re gonna run a sigil build, prepare to be utterly useless.

I think you are focusing on the wrong O word. You are talking the about the fact that its not optimal for players to use a banner or environmental weapons in fight. Its not optimal for mesmers to run a build based on signets, but in both cases those options that players are free to follow. Utilizing the 6pc bonus on Rune of Resistance (on demand Aegis) is not even option for engineers.

If its not optimal or anywhere near optimal, why would you use it? Thus it may as well not be an option.

If everyone played by the numbers then you would have a point. But that is not the case, sometimes players pick skills because they like what it does or feel it is fun. Sub-optimal does not mean non-viable, it just means don’t be surprised when number crunchers kick you from the group. which they have every right to do imo.

ghost.3208:

Takato.4976:

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

Shall we give Kits to all other professions so they can properly utilize Rune of the Engineer?

No but you should give one to the thief to properly use “Improvisation”.

See this is something I don’t get about thieves:

On the wiki the “Environmental Weapon” page says:
Thieves have the steal attack, which provides them with a skill to use depending on the target.

Meanwhile the “Improvisation” trait says:
Note: Steal is not a bundle; the damage bonus from this trait affects found items that replace the weapon skill bar such as Conjures and Banners.

… Which one is true then?

A bundle is a weapon that replaces your 1-5 skills with ones of its own such as engie kits, ele conjured weps, ranger pig items, warrior banners, and the elite tomes of guardians. These are physical weapons.

Skills that change your skill bar that aren’t bundles would be the ele tornado, necro lich and plague form, and warrior rampage form because these aren’t weapons but rather they transform your physical self.

Death shroud and norn spirit forms aren’t bundles either as they’re transformations.

Theif stealing doesn’t count as a bundle because it’s not altering your skill bar the same way it would if you picked up an environmental weapon rock, egg, etc. It’s directly tied to the elite skill but doesn’t behave like a bundle. This is unlike the ranger pigs who drop environmental weapons you specifically have to pick up which switch your current skill bar. Your quote even clears that up.

khani.4786:

Durzlla.6295:

khani.4786:

Xae Isareth.1364:

I’ll give you conjured weapons. But, have you ever seen anyone fight with a banner, or any environmental weapons?

Hey now…

I’ve got Golems in a box, Jars of Bees, Jars of Harpy Pheremones, Moletov Coctails, Charrzookas, and quite love grabbing a warrior’s banner and running off with it to smack something with it. Those things are SUPER fun to play with….and really how else am I going to attack things when I’m roaming around as a toxic krait. You’ve not experienced anything til you’ve taken down a foe with a golem in a box while transformed into something else entirely. And really…..a princess doll with a charrzooka….priceless.

shifty eyes

My god, you can use bundles while transformed? CHANGE OF PLAN BOYS!! Getting sonic berserker tonic sooner than expected, you don’t know fear until a sonic berserker charges you with a fiery greatsword xD

I haven’t tried picking up the ele conjured weapons yet, but the consumable items you can totally used while transformed!! And while you can drop the jars of bees for other people to pick up, you can’t pick them up while transformed, but you can use them from your inventory!

The more you know Shooting Star

Prolly can’t use conjures then… Whelp , gonna have to go buy a stack of charrzookas and kill things as a table xD

When using elixir X as an engineer if you get rampager you can pick up and use Fiery Greatsword, Lightning Hammer and other such conjured weapons.

Pifil.5193:

Manuhell.2759:

I’ll repeat myself, but how many runes are there that exclude a single class out?
Sure, there are some who cater especially to some classes – like the runes named after the classes, for example – but these aren’t one of those. They aren’t called Rune of No Engineer Here, after all, and neither they have a similar name.
These runes should be a reward of the new fractals – and engineers are getting left out. Without reason – cause those runes could have worked with either gadgets or elixirs, thus giving an option for every class.

Ok, I take your point, it’s not so much that there’s a rune set that engineers (or any profession) can’t use that there’s a rune set that only engineers can’t use and it’s being offered as a reward of high level/end game content. Yes, that does suck and they should do something to fix that before it’s released.

Thank you, sincerely. This is exactly what I was trying to express. And thank you, Pifil, for acknowledging the disparity.

ghost.3208:

Takato.4976:

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

Shall we give Kits to all other professions so they can properly utilize Rune of the Engineer?

No but you should give one to the thief to properly use “Improvisation”.

See this is something I don’t get about thieves:

On the wiki the “Environmental Weapon” page says:
Thieves have the steal attack, which provides them with a skill to use depending on the target.

Meanwhile the “Improvisation” trait says:
Note: Steal is not a bundle; the damage bonus from this trait affects found items that replace the weapon skill bar such as Conjures and Banners.

… Which one is true then?

They’re both true. Steal resides in the F1 spot, and when it is used, it takes up only the F1 key. A thief’s skill bar is intact, and steal is unavailable until the skill is used.

Guhracie.3419:

They’re both true. Steal resides in the F1 spot, and when it is used, it takes up only the F1 key. A thief’s skill bar is intact, and steal is unavailable until the skill is used.

I always thought that F1 skill was considered a bundle, so the only way to actually gain a benefit from that trait is by branching every foe in your path? Well guess I could get an ele to help me with a conjure >.>

Inc thief meta: Conjured improvisation!! Gonna wreck some havoc in PvP >:|

ghost.3208:

Guhracie.3419:

They’re both true. Steal resides in the F1 spot, and when it is used, it takes up only the F1 key. A thief’s skill bar is intact, and steal is unavailable until the skill is used.

I always thought that F1 skill was considered a bundle, so the only way to actually gain a benefit from that trait is by branching every foe in your path? Well guess I could get an ele to help me with a conjure >.>

Inc thief meta: Conjured improvisation!! Gonna wreck some havoc in PvP >:|

It’s entirely possible that I’m wrong, but I’ve always understood bundles to be things that replace the skill bar, so that trait has always struck me as stupid.

ghost.3208:

Guhracie.3419:

They’re both true. Steal resides in the F1 spot, and when it is used, it takes up only the F1 key. A thief’s skill bar is intact, and steal is unavailable until the skill is used.

I always thought that F1 skill was considered a bundle, so the only way to actually gain a benefit from that trait is by branching every foe in your path? Well guess I could get an ele to help me with a conjure >.>

Inc thief meta: Conjured improvisation!! Gonna wreck some havoc in PvP >:|

It does not count the F1 as a bundle, my friend (thief) has been using that trait forever it seems and has tested it, however it does absolutely work with conjures.

Target Rune of the Engineer to be Kit Specific, instead of bundles in general, and make it more akin to Rune of the Scholar (+crit damage & +pwr) with the 6th bonus to be +10% damage while using a kit, and it will ALMOST make up for the lack of ascended weapon damage when engies are in the aforementioned kits.

And seriously, comparing that crappy rune to end game content rewards with a SNIDE comment in a serious complaint thread?

Very unprofessional.

Yes indeed steal doesn’t count as a bundle sadly. And no one in their right mind would “fight” with a banner. Conjured weapons don’t quite cut it considering they have very situational usage and requires you to bring a very bad ( currently ) class to get that bundle. The fact remains that you’d be of much better use to your team by not picking them up either.

I believe they took the “improvisation” bit super seriously.
I’d be ok with it if you could say… break pvp objects and they would create bundles ( break a crate and get a stick ? ) That would be some hella improvisation.

Or my personal favorite, to count the stolen item as a bundle.
Which gives you two options.

1 : keep the stolen item and get the 10% bonus damage improvisation gives you. This locks steal out of your rotation AND you lose the skill recharge portion of the trait.

2 : Use the bundle (stolen skill ) and lose the 10% damage but then you regain access to your steal etc.

Great neutral trait for master tier ( something deadly arts lacks. )

AND I’m done. This really could have been in the thief forums lmao. ( my post )

In summary: Engineer gets nothing useful once again.

Bright side: We have kits. o.O

This kind of answer is really absurd. There’s already one rune for almost every character, some of them have to, which create really powerful effects.

Giving an rune that doesn’t give anything for only one proffesion, when it can potentially buff already strong once is pretty crazy.

I thought new things were suppose to help every class the same with problems, but instead it makes one alienated. Answer like this one on fist page of this topic, with ale due respect, is more like playing dumb and not having any good answer. Maybe guys who created this rune forgot that there’s a class without ability to use signets? And now there’s no one to blame around so we get dumb answers. That’s just my theory.

I’m not trying to be disrespectful, and only want to be respected by devs.
Giving another reward unusable for engis is kinda bad for engi community.

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

Shall we give Kits to all other professions so they can properly utilize Rune of the Engineer?

wow Anet… with this kind of replies from your people….. now I believe official forums wasn’t your best idea.

People can be hard, but in the end you are the one who decided to have a go with forums.

Really disappointed.

By the way warrior banners & elementalist conjure weapons are bundles as well so your argument falls short.

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

Shall we give Kits to all other professions so they can properly utilize Rune of the Engineer?

Wow, as if the treatment of Engineers wasn’t enough of a kitten at least you made your feelings clear. How about this? you give every other class bundles, then give us engi’s a way to change weapons without wasting a slot skill? You know like everyone else? (eles have attunement, everyone else can change weapons)

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

Shall we give Kits to all other professions so they can properly utilize Rune of the Engineer?

I am going to assume for a second this is not a trick question or sarcasm, even though it is…….

YES!!! Other Professions should get Bundle skills. Engineers don’t need more than 1 class mechanic anyways! Necromancers should get some sort of Plague Doctor Kit that lets them heal allies and transfer condityions from them and allies around to their enemies. Rangers should get some sort of Trap Bundle that lets them use traps like they were weapon skills instead of having to waste 3 utility skills and 30 trait points, just to be viable. Thieves should get…..(My random ideas ran out after that, and so did my sarcasm, but you get the idea)

ratche.6204:

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

Shall we give Kits to all other professions so they can properly utilize Rune of the Engineer?

Wow, as if the treatment of Engineers wasn’t enough of a kitten at least you made your feelings clear. How about this? you give every other class bundles, then give us engi’s a way to change weapons without wasting a slot skill? You know like everyone else? (eles have attunement, everyone else can change weapons)

Technically, the slot skill we waste, we get it back as a toolbelt skill, whereas eles dont have any skills on their F1-F4.

Still doesnt justify the lame answer we got from a Red…

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

Shall we give Kits to all other professions so they can properly utilize Rune of the Engineer?

Responses like these make me wonder why I even support this game.

Gemini K.8529:

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

Shall we give Kits to all other professions so they can properly utilize Rune of the Engineer?

Responses like these make me wonder why I even support this game.

Maybe he meant should we give Shouts to engineers so they can use Superior Rune of the Soldier ? And unconsciously swapped them?

Actually, you can use the rune just fine. Just not the 6-rune active.

If your an Engie why do you feel you need toughness, condi reduction and aegis on demand?

Lol…

I think this is actually a fair calling out that most of the runes in this game are junk, and this is the first rune set that excludes a single profession. It doesn’t help the devs response does kind of reflect a sort of apathy about that situation. I am aware they’ve stated they’re working on runes, but it’s still rather frustrating.

Dharknite.7906:

Xae Isareth.1364:

Dharknite.7906:

Xae Isareth.1364:

JeffHardisty.1926:

Entioch.6594:

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

Shall we give Kits to all other professions so they can properly utilize Rune of the Engineer?

BUURRRRNNN

I dont really care about this new rune but I wil point this out

(6): +5% damage while holding a bundle.

Warriors banners and Elementalists conjure elemental weapons count as bundles, as well as and weapons you can pick up (e.g. planks). Even thieves have a trait that increases bundle damage “Improvisation – Stealing recharges all skills of one type (venoms, signets, traps, tricks, or deceptions). Deal bonus damage when wielding a bundle” http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Environmental_weapon (bundles in other words)

I beleive the point that people are trying to make is that this is the frist rune that can be fully utilized by all classes, but one. Other runes like the Rune of the Soldier can be used by selection of classes, and leave the others out, but no other rune I can think of leaves only one class out like this new one does.

I’ll give you conjured weapons. But, have you ever seen anyone fight with a banner, or any environmental weapons?

And frankly speaking, the rune doesn’t just leave engis out, for example, on a Mesmer, if you’re gonna run a sigil build, prepare to be utterly useless.

I think you are focusing on the wrong O word. You are talking the about the fact that its not optimal for players to use a banner or environmental weapons in fight. Its not optimal for mesmers to run a build based on signets, but in both cases those options that players are free to follow. Utilizing the 6pc bonus on Rune of Resistance (on demand Aegis) is not even option for engineers.

If its not optimal or anywhere near optimal, why would you use it? Thus it may as well not be an option.

If everyone played by the numbers then you would have a point. But that is not the case, sometimes players pick skills because they like what it does or feel it is fun. Sub-optimal does not mean non-viable, it just means don’t be surprised when number crunchers kick you from the group. which they have every right to do imo.

Put it this way. In the case of engi runes you’re playing a build which gives you something like 10-20% less DPS than an optimal build (did not to the math, but rough figures just put in there for comparison), the reason of which is so that you can proc a 5% damage increase effect. There’s no logic to that.

Daishi.6027:

If your an Engie why do you feel you need toughness, condi reduction and aegis on demand?

Lol…

bunker build?

Xae Isareth.1364:

Dharknite.7906:

Xae Isareth.1364:

Dharknite.7906:

Xae Isareth.1364:

JeffHardisty.1926:

Entioch.6594:

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

Shall we give Kits to all other professions so they can properly utilize Rune of the Engineer?

BUURRRRNNN

I dont really care about this new rune but I wil point this out

(6): +5% damage while holding a bundle.

Warriors banners and Elementalists conjure elemental weapons count as bundles, as well as and weapons you can pick up (e.g. planks). Even thieves have a trait that increases bundle damage “Improvisation – Stealing recharges all skills of one type (venoms, signets, traps, tricks, or deceptions). Deal bonus damage when wielding a bundle” http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Environmental_weapon (bundles in other words)

I beleive the point that people are trying to make is that this is the frist rune that can be fully utilized by all classes, but one. Other runes like the Rune of the Soldier can be used by selection of classes, and leave the others out, but no other rune I can think of leaves only one class out like this new one does.

I’ll give you conjured weapons. But, have you ever seen anyone fight with a banner, or any environmental weapons?

And frankly speaking, the rune doesn’t just leave engis out, for example, on a Mesmer, if you’re gonna run a sigil build, prepare to be utterly useless.

I think you are focusing on the wrong O word. You are talking the about the fact that its not optimal for players to use a banner or environmental weapons in fight. Its not optimal for mesmers to run a build based on signets, but in both cases those options that players are free to follow. Utilizing the 6pc bonus on Rune of Resistance (on demand Aegis) is not even option for engineers.

If its not optimal or anywhere near optimal, why would you use it? Thus it may as well not be an option.

If everyone played by the numbers then you would have a point. But that is not the case, sometimes players pick skills because they like what it does or feel it is fun. Sub-optimal does not mean non-viable, it just means don’t be surprised when number crunchers kick you from the group. which they have every right to do imo.

Put it this way. In the case of engi runes you’re playing a build which gives you something like 10-20% less DPS than an optimal build (did not to the math, but rough figures just put in there for comparison), the reason of which is so that you can proc a 5% damage increase effect. There’s no logic to that.

That assumes that the player is going a for dps build. Toughness and Condition dam could be beneficial for a bunker build which could make use of toolkit and bomb kit. Not everyone plays the same way.

Dharknite.7906:

Xae Isareth.1364:

Dharknite.7906:

Xae Isareth.1364:

Dharknite.7906:

Xae Isareth.1364:

JeffHardisty.1926:

Entioch.6594:

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

Shall we give Kits to all other professions so they can properly utilize Rune of the Engineer?

BUURRRRNNN

I dont really care about this new rune but I wil point this out

(6): +5% damage while holding a bundle.

Warriors banners and Elementalists conjure elemental weapons count as bundles, as well as and weapons you can pick up (e.g. planks). Even thieves have a trait that increases bundle damage “Improvisation – Stealing recharges all skills of one type (venoms, signets, traps, tricks, or deceptions). Deal bonus damage when wielding a bundle” http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Environmental_weapon (bundles in other words)

I beleive the point that people are trying to make is that this is the frist rune that can be fully utilized by all classes, but one. Other runes like the Rune of the Soldier can be used by selection of classes, and leave the others out, but no other rune I can think of leaves only one class out like this new one does.

I’ll give you conjured weapons. But, have you ever seen anyone fight with a banner, or any environmental weapons?

And frankly speaking, the rune doesn’t just leave engis out, for example, on a Mesmer, if you’re gonna run a sigil build, prepare to be utterly useless.

I think you are focusing on the wrong O word. You are talking the about the fact that its not optimal for players to use a banner or environmental weapons in fight. Its not optimal for mesmers to run a build based on signets, but in both cases those options that players are free to follow. Utilizing the 6pc bonus on Rune of Resistance (on demand Aegis) is not even option for engineers.

If its not optimal or anywhere near optimal, why would you use it? Thus it may as well not be an option.

If everyone played by the numbers then you would have a point. But that is not the case, sometimes players pick skills because they like what it does or feel it is fun. Sub-optimal does not mean non-viable, it just means don’t be surprised when number crunchers kick you from the group. which they have every right to do imo.

Put it this way. In the case of engi runes you’re playing a build which gives you something like 10-20% less DPS than an optimal build (did not to the math, but rough figures just put in there for comparison), the reason of which is so that you can proc a 5% damage increase effect. There’s no logic to that.

That assumes that the player is going a for dps build. Toughness and Condition dam could be beneficial for a bunker build which could make use of toolkit and bomb kit. Not everyone plays the same way.

We’re talking about people using environmental weapons like planks and banners to proc the 6th effect on engi runes. Using those is just basically a massive decrease in DPS without any benefits to anything else.

Daishi.6027:

If your an Engie why do you feel you need toughness, condi reduction and aegis on demand?

Lol…

Aside from the valid reasons you’ve already been given, the fact that every other class can utilize the six piece bonus is another reason. There’s literally no reason that a single class should be shut out like this.

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

Shall we give Kits to all other professions so they can properly utilize Rune of the Engineer?

/em golfclap

A WvW rune available only from 30+ fractals?

Sigh…

Regarding the topic, I strongly agree with Nike’s recommendation on page 1 regarding synergy in set bonuses encouraging build specialization.

Fletch.3572:

Aegis on demand for my warrior sounds ab so freaking lutely delicous

Educational side note:
Inserting a word between two parts of a compound word (abso-freaking-lutely) is called “tmesis” and is the only word in the English language beginning with “tm”. May also be interested in “expletive infixation” that is partially related.

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

Shall we give Kits to all other professions so they can properly utilize Rune of the Engineer?

Honestly, if it buffs them up to ascended level then yes please. We have many cosmetic issues such as legendaries being too long to gather and not shown 90% of the time, kits required(and lower level) so we miss a slot, all back skins covered.

The rune thing is a little different because there are certain runes for each profession for a bonus. Those profession specific one are for that profession only, which I love. profession stuff is awesome. It just seems that this excludes one and benefits 7, rather than benefits one and excludes 7.

I can honestly see the frustration of Engineers. I am one and I do feel we are being a little left behind. The more elite groups avoid them for certain things because other classes with signets are too strong to not take. Mesmers, warriors and guardians for example are almost required.

It seems like a moan, but I just thought I’d put it into perspective. This isn’t moaning because of one little rune. I think it’s more an overall feeling of being “left out” for a few months.

Xae Isareth.1364:

Dharknite.7906:

Xae Isareth.1364:

Dharknite.7906:

Xae Isareth.1364:

Dharknite.7906:

Xae Isareth.1364:

JeffHardisty.1926:

Entioch.6594:

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

Shall we give Kits to all other professions so they can properly utilize Rune of the Engineer?

BUURRRRNNN

I dont really care about this new rune but I wil point this out

(6): +5% damage while holding a bundle.

Warriors banners and Elementalists conjure elemental weapons count as bundles, as well as and weapons you can pick up (e.g. planks). Even thieves have a trait that increases bundle damage “Improvisation – Stealing recharges all skills of one type (venoms, signets, traps, tricks, or deceptions). Deal bonus damage when wielding a bundle” http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Environmental_weapon (bundles in other words)

I beleive the point that people are trying to make is that this is the frist rune that can be fully utilized by all classes, but one. Other runes like the Rune of the Soldier can be used by selection of classes, and leave the others out, but no other rune I can think of leaves only one class out like this new one does.

I’ll give you conjured weapons. But, have you ever seen anyone fight with a banner, or any environmental weapons?

And frankly speaking, the rune doesn’t just leave engis out, for example, on a Mesmer, if you’re gonna run a sigil build, prepare to be utterly useless.

I think you are focusing on the wrong O word. You are talking the about the fact that its not optimal for players to use a banner or environmental weapons in fight. Its not optimal for mesmers to run a build based on signets, but in both cases those options that players are free to follow. Utilizing the 6pc bonus on Rune of Resistance (on demand Aegis) is not even option for engineers.

If its not optimal or anywhere near optimal, why would you use it? Thus it may as well not be an option.

If everyone played by the numbers then you would have a point. But that is not the case, sometimes players pick skills because they like what it does or feel it is fun. Sub-optimal does not mean non-viable, it just means don’t be surprised when number crunchers kick you from the group. which they have every right to do imo.

Put it this way. In the case of engi runes you’re playing a build which gives you something like 10-20% less DPS than an optimal build (did not to the math, but rough figures just put in there for comparison), the reason of which is so that you can proc a 5% damage increase effect. There’s no logic to that.

That assumes that the player is going a for dps build. Toughness and Condition dam could be beneficial for a bunker build which could make use of toolkit and bomb kit. Not everyone plays the same way.

We’re talking about people using environmental weapons like planks and banners to proc the 6th effect on engi runes. Using those is just basically a massive decrease in DPS without any benefits to anything else.

There is no proc, its a weak passive damage increase. As I have said its an option even if its not optimal. On demand aegis will not be an option for eng though it will be for every other profession. More or less saying that other professions not benefiting as much from 6/6 Rune of Eng %5 inc to bundle damage, is same as Eng not being able to have access to aegis on demand at all, is ridiculous especially coming from a Dev.

FreekPalmer.2839:

It seems like a moan, but I just thought I’d put it into perspective. This isn’t moaning because of one little rune. I think it’s more an overall feeling of being “left out” for a few months.

Wholeheartedly agree. This little oversight is just the tip of the iceberg. I say “oversight” because i dont think Anet is singling out the engineer class, its more like they just forget about it at every single meeting when they discuss rewards. Backpack skins? Ascended weapons? Legendaries? Now this rune? All cool stuff. Just nothing to look forward to for engineer characters. The matters are discusses at length on the engineer forums that are likely looked at by a dev on his own free time every second month for 10 minutes.

And these are just the aesthetic issues with the class. Discussing the gameplay problems would take another 2-5 threads alone (and is actually taking on the previously mentioned engineer forums)

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

Shall we give Kits to all other professions so they can properly utilize Rune of the Engineer?

elementalists can already utilize the rune fine due to the many conjured weapons.
warriors can use it with banners
thieves can steal bundles

in fact as its for any bundle, any class can use it as there are numerous bundles available around the world, and you can even use items to create them wherever you like.

Lol give that dev a break. The reason most MMOs fail is because Devs don’t have a backbone, he’s entirely right. Stop whining just because not everything in the game is usable for you. I want to use a greatsword on my Necro, but oh well…. Seriously. It wasn’t rude, just stop being so sensitive and selfish.

Also; Runes of the Soldier, my necro doesn’t have shouts. QQ

ronpierce.2760:

Also; Runes of the Soldier, my necro doesn’t have shouts. QQ

but you see this is not the same as three professions have the ability to use shouts (ranger, guardian, and warrior) which leaves out 5 proffessions, while on the other had this new rune includes all but one profession, so if an update comes where every profession other than necros get new skills that include shouts, and necro gets new skills but none are shouts then we can have a comparison…also I believe anet said they were working on getting all profession the ability to use all weapon types, so your necro with great sword may not be as far off as you think.

And this is a reward for endgame content anyway, not just a random rune.
Leaving out a single class of said reward makes no sense.

Infamous Darkness.3284:

ronpierce.2760:

Also; Runes of the Soldier, my necro doesn’t have shouts. QQ

but you see this is not the same as three professions have the ability to use shouts (ranger, guardian, and warrior) which leaves out 5 proffessions, while on the other had this new rune includes all but one profession, so if an update comes where every profession other than necros get new skills that include shouts, and necro gets new skills but none are shouts then we can have a comparison…also I believe anet said they were working on getting all profession the ability to use all weapon types, so your necro with great sword may not be as far off as you think.

They also said they’d be adding new abilities, so signets might not be so off neither.

Dharknite.7906:

Xae Isareth.1364:

Dharknite.7906:

Xae Isareth.1364:

Dharknite.7906:

Xae Isareth.1364:

Dharknite.7906:

Xae Isareth.1364:

JeffHardisty.1926:

Entioch.6594:

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

Shall we give Kits to all other professions so they can properly utilize Rune of the Engineer?

BUURRRRNNN

I dont really care about this new rune but I wil point this out

(6): +5% damage while holding a bundle.

Warriors banners and Elementalists conjure elemental weapons count as bundles, as well as and weapons you can pick up (e.g. planks). Even thieves have a trait that increases bundle damage “Improvisation – Stealing recharges all skills of one type (venoms, signets, traps, tricks, or deceptions). Deal bonus damage when wielding a bundle” http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Environmental_weapon (bundles in other words)

I beleive the point that people are trying to make is that this is the frist rune that can be fully utilized by all classes, but one. Other runes like the Rune of the Soldier can be used by selection of classes, and leave the others out, but no other rune I can think of leaves only one class out like this new one does.

I’ll give you conjured weapons. But, have you ever seen anyone fight with a banner, or any environmental weapons?

And frankly speaking, the rune doesn’t just leave engis out, for example, on a Mesmer, if you’re gonna run a sigil build, prepare to be utterly useless.

I think you are focusing on the wrong O word. You are talking the about the fact that its not optimal for players to use a banner or environmental weapons in fight. Its not optimal for mesmers to run a build based on signets, but in both cases those options that players are free to follow. Utilizing the 6pc bonus on Rune of Resistance (on demand Aegis) is not even option for engineers.

If its not optimal or anywhere near optimal, why would you use it? Thus it may as well not be an option.

If everyone played by the numbers then you would have a point. But that is not the case, sometimes players pick skills because they like what it does or feel it is fun. Sub-optimal does not mean non-viable, it just means don’t be surprised when number crunchers kick you from the group. which they have every right to do imo.

Put it this way. In the case of engi runes you’re playing a build which gives you something like 10-20% less DPS than an optimal build (did not to the math, but rough figures just put in there for comparison), the reason of which is so that you can proc a 5% damage increase effect. There’s no logic to that.

That assumes that the player is going a for dps build. Toughness and Condition dam could be beneficial for a bunker build which could make use of toolkit and bomb kit. Not everyone plays the same way.

We’re talking about people using environmental weapons like planks and banners to proc the 6th effect on engi runes. Using those is just basically a massive decrease in DPS without any benefits to anything else.

There is no proc, its a weak passive damage increase. As I have said its an option even if its not optimal. On demand aegis will not be an option for eng though it will be for every other profession. More or less saying that other professions not benefiting as much from 6/6 Rune of Eng %5 inc to bundle damage, is same as Eng not being able to have access to aegis on demand at all, is ridiculous especially coming from a Dev.

Its proc when you’re using a bundle. My use of the word is probably a bit off, so apologies for that.

Anyways. Its an option but so is running naked or using weapons 10 levels below you, but doing so would only be gimping yourself and thus no one in their right mind would do so unless he/she is doing in on-purposed to increase the difficulty of an encounter.

Engies were left out of the ascended weapons update, they are left out of the legendary grind, and they are left out of the plethora of back piece rewards.

At this point, what is one more thing. They honestly do not care, and this comment makes it clear.

Xae Isareth.1364:

Dharknite.7906:

Xae Isareth.1364:

Dharknite.7906:

Xae Isareth.1364:

Dharknite.7906:

Xae Isareth.1364:

Dharknite.7906:

Xae Isareth.1364:

JeffHardisty.1926:

Entioch.6594:

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

Shall we give Kits to all other professions so they can properly utilize Rune of the Engineer?

BUURRRRNNN

I dont really care about this new rune but I wil point this out

(6): +5% damage while holding a bundle.

Warriors banners and Elementalists conjure elemental weapons count as bundles, as well as and weapons you can pick up (e.g. planks). Even thieves have a trait that increases bundle damage “Improvisation – Stealing recharges all skills of one type (venoms, signets, traps, tricks, or deceptions). Deal bonus damage when wielding a bundle” http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Environmental_weapon (bundles in other words)

I beleive the point that people are trying to make is that this is the frist rune that can be fully utilized by all classes, but one. Other runes like the Rune of the Soldier can be used by selection of classes, and leave the others out, but no other rune I can think of leaves only one class out like this new one does.

I’ll give you conjured weapons. But, have you ever seen anyone fight with a banner, or any environmental weapons?

And frankly speaking, the rune doesn’t just leave engis out, for example, on a Mesmer, if you’re gonna run a sigil build, prepare to be utterly useless.

I think you are focusing on the wrong O word. You are talking the about the fact that its not optimal for players to use a banner or environmental weapons in fight. Its not optimal for mesmers to run a build based on signets, but in both cases those options that players are free to follow. Utilizing the 6pc bonus on Rune of Resistance (on demand Aegis) is not even option for engineers.

If its not optimal or anywhere near optimal, why would you use it? Thus it may as well not be an option.

If everyone played by the numbers then you would have a point. But that is not the case, sometimes players pick skills because they like what it does or feel it is fun. Sub-optimal does not mean non-viable, it just means don’t be surprised when number crunchers kick you from the group. which they have every right to do imo.

Put it this way. In the case of engi runes you’re playing a build which gives you something like 10-20% less DPS than an optimal build (did not to the math, but rough figures just put in there for comparison), the reason of which is so that you can proc a 5% damage increase effect. There’s no logic to that.

That assumes that the player is going a for dps build. Toughness and Condition dam could be beneficial for a bunker build which could make use of toolkit and bomb kit. Not everyone plays the same way.

We’re talking about people using environmental weapons like planks and banners to proc the 6th effect on engi runes. Using those is just basically a massive decrease in DPS without any benefits to anything else.

There is no proc, its a weak passive damage increase. As I have said its an option even if its not optimal. On demand aegis will not be an option for eng though it will be for every other profession. More or less saying that other professions not benefiting as much from 6/6 Rune of Eng %5 inc to bundle damage, is same as Eng not being able to have access to aegis on demand at all, is ridiculous especially coming from a Dev.

Its proc when you’re using a bundle. My use of the word is probably a bit off, so apologies for that.

Anyways. Its an option but so is running naked or using weapons 10 levels below you, but doing so would only be gimping yourself and thus no one in their right mind would do so unless he/she is doing in on-purposed to increase the difficulty of an encounter.

I agree, but never the less its an option, I tend not make judgements on how players make use of their time and equipment, unless it directly effects me. But now we are venturing into the realm of hyperbole.

Essentially the issue is that absolute exclusion of one profession from on demand aegis, is being equated with inefficient use of %5 damage on bundles by other professions. Given the strength and rarity of aegis as buff, how can anyone, especially a dev indicate that not being able to utilize one is equivalent to not being able to use the other. Do you honestly believe that not being able to access on demand aegis is comparably to not being able to get full benefit of a % 5 damage inc on bundles?

This still doesn’t explain why you plainly excluded the engineer from the 6th bonus.
It could have worked with either elixirs or gadgets, for example.
And the last ones especially would have seen some good use from such a bonus.

We’re talking about an endgame reward, after all. You’re making one of those completely useless for a class.
A class that, by the way, isn’t even one of the most played – quite the opposite, infact.
And giving further motives not to play it doesn’t seem exactly a good move to me.

You might not mean it as a deliberate exclusion, but it is an exclusion nevertheless. It is not first time that the Eng has been screwed over more than other prof be virtue of being the Eng. Is there new and interesting rune coming down the pipeline for players who want to use gadgets?

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

Clearly my comment has caused some confusion and offense, which was not my intent. For that, I offer my apology and a more literal version of what I mean to say:

Every profession has aspects that make it different than the others. Sometimes those aspects can exclude a player from taking full advantage of certain bonuses from equipment. But that is not the reason those choices exist. The implementation of a signet-related rune is not an oversight, nor is it meant as a deliberate exclusion of the engineer profession. It is meant to be a new, interesting choice for players that want to use to signets and want to play professions that have them.

The problem is not entirely that we can’t use these runes effectively, it is that and the fact that we have this rune in our drop tables at 30+ fractals (which will likely be soul/account bound) and we can never use it. It’s like giving a warrior a soul-bound The Legend (granted not this extreme just an example), he can never use it and it’s literally only good for vendor trash.

What is the point of doing high fractals if we as engineers can only reap a small amount of the rewards?

Also that V

Thank you for the response Anthony glad to see you didn’t mean it as an offense, also glad to see that you have laid out the reasoning for why you at anet have decided to implement it this way, maybe to get people to use signets for things other than just their passive effect? but even so with all of this the engineer community in this game feels left out in many areas, as much of the end game is about customization, we lose out on the customization of our back piece, and our weapons generally through the main power of the engineer comes through kits which hide all of these things, we have been left out on the update to damage through kits to upgrade them to ascended level, and now we feel like we are being excluded from more newly introduced rewards to the game (first through different back pieces, but now through stats with a rune set that we are the only class excluded from its “full item set” benefit).

It just feels like the straws are piling up and many engineer’s backs are getting tired.

I can completely accept this new signet-based runeset implemented into the game. It seems balanced and all, and it wont be the only runeset that engineers will never even glance at. The problem as far as i see is that this rune is pushed out as some kind of ultimate reward for high-end PvE play, akin to the rewards of all the past updates (the backpacks and such).

This discussion seems indeed overblown a bit, because it is about such a meaningless little thing, one new runeset that we should all be happy about (but engineers cant). The problem starts at the point when one player, the OP feels this is the very last straw and needs to express what many engineer players feel, that the class is being left out(and thanks to him for that). Deliberate or not, the feeling is there in most of us. That feeling is the iceberg this topic is just the tip of.